 Welcome to this powering Africa debate coming to you live from Davos, where the World Economic Forum annual meeting 2017 is currently in session. Over the next hour, we're going to look at the best ways to close Africa's power gap. Joining me to take this discussion further, I have Cyril Ramaphosa, Deputy President of the Republic of South Africa. We're joined by Akun Rumi Adashina, President of the African Development Bank. Rachel Kite, who's Special Representative of the Secretary-General and the Chief Executive of the UN Sustainable Energy for All. And we're joined by Eliko Dangorte, President and Chief Executive of Dangosi Industries. Thank you all very much for joining me. We know the task at hand is an enormous one. And the stat out there is that we can see economic growth in Africa increasing by some 30% if we close Africa's energy gap. And that is by 2040. Usually, we come to the end of this discussion and we ask the panelists for the most important point, the takeaway. When I'm going to turn this discussion on its head, and I'm going to start by asking you what we need to discuss over the next hour to make closing that energy gap in Africa a reality. Mr. Deputy President, if you could set the agenda for what is going to become, ladies and gentlemen, a working group here on the stage in Davos. It is quite clear that the issue of energy on the African continent is the one big issue that can change the economies of Africa. And if we're looking to have either industrialization, meaningful economic growth without energy, that is a pipe dream. We can only, as Africans, get real meaningful growth if we go into power Africa, roll out energy infrastructure throughout the African continent, and increase the megawatts output that we currently have. We need to do that so that we can empower our people, our economies. And we need to do that in a very smart way. In the past, we've just relied on governments to power our various countries. And we now need to start looking at how we can bring in the private sector to partner with government, but also how we can bring in the private sector itself to do it on an independent basis. We have seen from South Africa how effective it is to bring in the private sector to set up independent power generation. And we've been able to attract up to $194 billion in investments, meaningful investments that has brought about more than 2,500 megawatts of power. And we're looking to doing more and more of that. And when the private sector is given the opportunity to generate power independently, they grab the opportunity because they can raise the funding. They can, through their various networks, bring about technologies. And we've done it effectively in South Africa, particularly on renewable energy. And this, I believe, is the future for Africa because it's much cheaper. We can go for hydro, we can go for wind, and we can go for solar. And that is what we've done in South Africa. And we've realized great benefits. And we're now going to be moving to other generations as well. We're going to spend some more time examining the IPP example in South Africa and the success that is as a world-class model of renewable energy. President Adesheena, it was on the stage in January 2016 that you launched the New Deal on Energy for Africa, a transformative partnership on energy. You've moved very quickly over the last 12 month period. You put forward a strategy to the board, agreed that there was going to be more investment in energy across the African continent. You set up an entire vice presidency complex, the only multilateral institution to do so for power because of the gravitas of the situation. You've got 12 projects currently underway, all from IPPs through to transforming the utilities. This is your agenda now, the next 12 months. What do you want to see happening? Well, first and foremost, let me say I need to hire you also for the power complex because you seem to understand it very well. We can chat after the session. Well, let me say that I'm proudly African and I'm very optimistic about Africa's economic growth and future and prospects. But none of that can actually happen unless we deal with the structural problem of lack of power in Africa. If you don't have power, you can light up homes. Kids can't go to school. You can't drive industries. You can't be competitive in almost anything. So for me, the most important thing is really to light up and power Africa. Lights are fine, but you need base load power to drive industries all across Africa. And that's why, as you said, that was right here last year. We launched a new deal on energy for Africa. The goal is it's really big and it's got to be big because I'm tired of Africa being in the dark. And we decided as a bank that we're going to focus in $12 billion on the power sector over the next five years. But as the deputy president was saying, it's not just the government that's going to do that. It's that we've got to leverage the private sector. So we expect to leverage anything between $45 and $50 billion from the private sector and the likes of Aliko and others that are investing massively in this sector. The agenda, if I will say four things. First is that we've got to get the private sector into the energy space big time. Because if you look at how much is being spent on the energy today in Africa, it's probably about, it's grown from about $22 billion in 2014 to $35 billion by 2015. Private sector is only $2.5 billion in 2014, but $7 billion, it's about 3.5 times by 2015, is got to go a lot more. So that's the first thing that we've got to do. The second thing we've got to do is to really make sure that we do reforms of the entire energy sector. The energy sector can be the cash cow for government to just say, look, it's all by governments. We did that mistake with mobile phones, landlines, and look at where we are right now with mobile phones. So big agenda around the reforms of that sector, utilities have to be reformed. And I would say that's big. The third one is if investors like Aliko are going to make an investment in anything and others are going to make investment, it's going to pay off. And so there has to be a big agenda about cost reflective tariff on energy all across Africa to make investments pay off. And finally is that it's going to take government, and I'm glad the deputy president is here, it's going to take all multilateral finance institutions that can do risk a lot of investments, and it's going to take the private sector to bring in a lot of the things and others so that Rachel, my twin sister here, that we are working to get on renewable energy. As deputy president, I think the message for me for African leaders is that if you're going to stay in power, then give power. Give. People need to get power because the citizens are absolutely tired of being in the dark. So I think there's a public agenda, a political agenda, a private sector agenda, and how we do risk investments. We're going to pick up on cost reflective tariff and then we're going to go back to the resolution in the discussion, because no matter how big the opportunity, if investors can't make money, then they're not going to venture into that space. Rachel, you were appointed as CEO of the U.N. Sustainable Energy for all. You took up the position in January 2016. You made a statement at that point saying that technology in this space is having a revolution all by itself. Policy is stuck or nascent, and the financial revolution in this space has to play catch up with the other two. Twelve months down the line, is that still true? Yeah, I think so. I think that we've, and actually Africa is the crucible of a lot of the innovation in this space, in particular in the space of providing electricity off the grid, mini-grids, solar home systems, different technologies with different business models, building off the success that Africa has built in mobile payments and mobile money. So it is interesting that a lot of the rest of the world is looking at, in particular, some of the work that's going on in East Africa and saying, okay, this shows us that it is technologically feasible to provide affordable, reliable, clean power to people who've never had it before. And when you think about rounding that problem out, it's more than 600 million Africans without access to reliable, affordable, clean power. That's not just, as Akene said, that's not just get them a lamp and get them a cell phone charger. That's getting them the productive demand so that they can start the businesses, so that they can grow their businesses, and so that big industries and manufacturing and industrialization takes place too. When you think of the size of the opportunity of more than 600 million people who don't have it now, who need to have it, who want to have it, that's the healthcare systems and the education systems they can't reliably depend upon. That's the businesses that have never been started. It's also the super-efficient radios, televisions, fans, cook stoves, lighting, water pumps, motors, that an economically productive Africa is going to want to have access to. That's a manufacturing opportunity for Africa, for India, for China, for everybody. If we can take the technology that makes this power now affordable and applicable in these situations, the finances there need, there are lots of barriers to that finance flowing, but we can talk about those. If the policy environment was benign and treated clean power and fossil fuel power a little bit more equitably and recognize that the gap will be closed speedily for some parts of those who don't have it by using an integrated approach, both strengthening the grid and extending it, but also underneath the power lines and beyond the power lines using off-grid solutions, this is a global goal that can be met and it needs to be met as soon as possible. The 1.1 billion people in the world that don't have access to clean energy, 620 million of those live in Africa, so there's the enormity of the problem when it comes to the African continent. Talking about finance flowing, Mr. Aliko Dungorte, big investments, so 12 billion dollars into Nigerian oil refinery and huge plans for gas pipelines across West Africa. Talk to me about the timing of your investment, particularly in the Nigerian oil and gas sector. We're going to talk a bit about the economic environment that Nigeria is experiencing at the moment, which as we know, a technical recession is upon that territory. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. I think the problem that we have, normally sometimes it is lack of credible master plan and also a competent regulator. Today you are right, in West Africa we shouldn't really have any issues about having power, most especially because Nigeria has abundant gas. There's gas in abundance where, you know, but the issue is how to get that gas off the ground. And one of the things that we're doing really is building a subsea gas pipeline from the Niger Delta to Lagos and also to be connected to the West African gas pipeline. That will free up something like about 3 billion of gas. 3 billion of gas will give you 12,000 megas of power. Today the biggest issue that we have in Nigeria is to do with using the generators that were actually fixed in the last seven, eight years, maybe nine years by General Electric and Siemens and Co. They are there, but we don't have gas to operate them. And the only way for us to have the gas is actually, you know, to do something very innovative. Today we have those plants that are not working. Even those that are working, the old ones, they are not getting enough gas because of vandalization of gas pipeline, this or whatever, you know, a lot of other issues. So when we finish our gas pipeline, what that will do is to open up the this, you know, I mean we are doing some of it about 900 million will be owned by us, but the rest we are going to transport to other people. There are a lot of fields that they have gas, but they are firing most of the gas up in the air because I mean there's actually no transportation. So we are creating that corridor to transport the gas. And when you look at it today in West Africa, we should really have any problem about generating power. The issue is that we have abundance of gas. We have no coal in Nigeria, which we are not using at all. We just converted, well, we put up coal plants in all our cement plant to reduce reliance on gas because the gas is not available most of the time because of infrastructure. So I think with that, you can see that we as, I mean we do have it in West Africa, we have the West African power full. And that can actually, you know, give power to Niger, give power even up to Cameroon and other areas. So with that, it is actually going to pre-off, but I've heard you talking about financing. Financing is not an issue really. If I have a credible project today, I go to the likes of ADB, you know, IFC and coal. The financing is there. Our south, Dengote and Blackstone have already promised and put up an agreement which we say will provide $5 billion to generate power. But, you know, we need also the governments to really move very fast. Power issue in Africa is a very serious issue. You have heard what President Aditya said that for people who really want to remain in power, they must provide power. So going forward, I think elections are going to be about power. And I think we've already got the closing statement for this debate later in the session. Sure. Again, Alika, before we move on, there are news reports coming out of Nigeria that you are having significant trouble with the transmission lines on the national grid. Sunday night, the 15th of January, 2017, there's a power crisis in Nigeria that is substantial as we speak in that there is minimal electricity being generated from the grid right now. Are those media reports being overly dramatic, or is the situation, and I'm sure you've heard from your plants on the ground, so is the situation dire in Nigeria today? I think it's more to do with the gas supply. There was a systems collapse and, you know, sometimes when you give more power than it is needed you have those issues. But mind you it is what I call before lack of planning. You know, we in business, the private sector, will do all our plans to be ready before going to the likes of ADB and make sure that yes, we know what we are saying, and they will also check. Normally in government, they don't have those kind of plants. You know, especially if they are spending their own money, they are not going for debt. But it's not an overly dramatic situation, just from a news flow perspective in Nigeria today? No, I mean in Nigeria, really, there are other areas where they have put up a brand new, under the Nigerian independent power plan, you know, they have a lot of areas. For example, if you go to areas like Abuja or a place called Chalawa in Kano, these areas alone they have 2,500 megas that could actually be evacuated. But the problem is the majority of the power is being generated in the Niger Delta and be transported in the other parts of the country. Why it shouldn't be evacuated? I see President Adishina wants to come in here. In the case of Nigeria you have a particular risk which is concentration of relying on Tamil power. I think with gas, and with the big problems that you have with the gas pandalism and all that, that is quite difficult. I think it's very important for Nigeria to diversify that energy mix. That's why the African Development Bank is investing a lot in the north of Nigeria. I mentioned also coal, but coal if you're going to do it, do a clean coal. I went to Japan and I went to the Isoco power plant in Japan and I sat down and I saw this power plant. I didn't know I wasn't a power plant. I thought I wasn't a hotel. That's how good the technology is today. But on Nigeria, the African Development Bank is going to provide about $200 million to support the Nigerian bulk electric trader to be able to address that liquidity problem. But as Aliko also said, even if you've got all that right, the transmission network has to be totally changed. You need smart grids, you need to totally change that transmission network, and we are committed to working with Nigeria. President Adishina, I want to bring you back to South Africa because the African Development Bank was a very important part of South Africa because the African Development Bank was also instrumental in rallying to support ESCEM with a syndicated loan of $965 million. With Kigali, Mr Deputy President, you stated that South Africa had experienced headwinds in the energy sector 2014-2015 and that was receding. You said shortly South Africa would be able to fully power its energy sector. I'm going to look back at statements that have been made and track progress. What is the biggest breakthrough over the last six-month period in South Africa's energy sector? Well, as you correctly say, we encountered headwinds when it came to energy generation and it was largely due to the fact that our power stations were old and had aged and we hadn't paid enough attention to repairing them but in the meantime we had started building three new power stations but they were taking too long to come into operation. So there was an 18-month period where we really had problems but then the government then took the bet in its teeth and decided that it is going to resolve this problem. Set up a war room which the President asked me to head and in doing so we were able to get right down to the power stations to resolve the problems. Today we have gone over the blackouts. South Africa does not have blackouts any longer. The mines are operating, the factories are operating, the homes have electricity and we now have excess power and we now also going to have more excess power when the three power stations come fully into operation which will give us another 8,000 megawatts. But looking forward, this brings me to the energy mix issue. It is important for countries to have a very good mix of their energy generation and not to rely on one only. Currently most of our energy, the base load is powered by fossil fuels but we moving yes towards clean coal generation as well but the other thing is we moving more and more towards renewable. And in time we are going to go more into nuclear. We already have nuclear which generates about 2,000 but we want to get more nuclear so that will give us a very good mix but other important thing that we now lurching onto is to have regional integration. We almost finalizing an agreement with the DRC to integrate it from the great inga which will bring hydro energy but not only for South Africa but for a number of neighboring countries. And if we have not already gone to the bank, we will be knocking on the door. We will be going to the bank for more money so that we can power the great inga. The bank is already there. Wonderful. I just want to follow up on that point that we have got to really develop regional power markets. And to do that you have to focus also on regional power projects. And I can't think of any regional power project more important than the great inga. You have got 44,000 megawatt sitting out there and that is enough to light up and power most of Africa actually. So what the African Development Bank has done is that we have provided for project preparation facility for the grand inga. The world bank has pulled out of that project. Is that a concern? My job as president of African Development Bank is to take a good bet on Africa at all times. And to light up and power Africa we have got hydro. Are the potentials immense? You look at just solar. We are talking of 11 terawatts of power. You look at hydro 350 gigawatts of power which grand inga included. You are looking at the geothermal which we are developing quite a lot now about 15 gigawatts and look at wind, 115 gigawatts. And so what we really have to do is Aliko is correct. We are investing heavily on project preparation to get many of those projects to bankability. We are putting in 100 million dollars into that. We are investing 1,000 megawatts of which 4,500 is the grand inga. I mean the inga 3 which will now Gentlemen I have to interrupt you. I am so sorry president. Everybody out there is waiting for me to ask you for the time horizon on inga dam. You walked yourselves into this discussion. I have to get that answer. Well it's been long time in the making. It's a multiple government type of project which has taken quite a long time. You needed to nest it all into shape and form and now the bank is now involved. And this is the bank that does not play politics and you don't have to run for elections or anything like that. The last time I checked. So he is taking a big and a great bet on Africa and so he is going to finance. The timeline actually as we speak there are those that have actually bid it for the inga 3. That bid process is almost completed. There are two people at firms that have done that and I think in the next one year you see a fast move on that as soon as think and settle politically in that area. But I do want to say something that's very important. Even if we get as we get the grand inga the inga 3 right the critical challenge is going to be that the power transmission line goes through many countries. It's really who is going to pay for the power and how are you going to finance that? And so one area where the bank is going to come in is that the bank will support the countries to float power purchase bonds that will allow them to be able as long as they do cost reflective tariff to be able to pay for that power as it passes through their country. That makes it bankable right not just in terms of off-take and the issue of power mix and I want to emphasize that. Aliko also mentioned that. I think as we look at renewable energy there's a lot that is going on right now that is exciting. You take a look at M-Copper in Kenya. You take a look at Power Hive in Kenya. You take a look at Mobisol that is actually doing quite a lot. I know you used to me interrupting you but we need to tell people what M-Copper is. M-Copper is an amazing organization that is connecting 250,000 people households actually to household solar PV systems and say pay as you go system so it works very well and so the decision we made in the African Development Bank is look I don't want I don't like pilots I don't like small things African is big things and it is fast that we need to take connecting 250,000 households a year to how do we reach 75 million households and the business model that we have developed which everybody to mutualize is if we can take M-Copper and all the others to do 10 times what they are currently doing right you get a 2.5 million and then you replicate that in 30. I know Rachel has set in on many strategy sessions. She's making inroads here. I understand but let me finish that point which is if you do it in 30 countries you reach 75 million people so the point I'm making is we've got to go to scale. We've got to set up the financing structures that manage things at scale and to do risk the renewable energy sector because the cost is still quite high and the risk is quite high. So let's get really specific okay so I completely agree with the opportunity and as I said before the innovations coming out of Africa but the truth of the matter is today that we can sit here and we can name the five, six companies that are really breaking through at commercial level providing these off-grid renewable solutions and the truth of the matter is that we need not six but 600 right. This is a market of 610 620 million Africans who don't just need a light, don't just need a fan, they need enough to have productive economic participation. That is a massive opportunity so everybody's tuned into the right program and you're all in the right room here in Davos. So what do we need to do? We need to drop some real money on really understanding the market dynamic for that segment of the population. So what will rural Mozambicans pay for what? What's the price point and how many of them are? I mean there's a lot of money out there and we need some grant money just to go down on that because otherwise each one of these six companies is going to have to go and do its own marketing information country by country which is going to go do the marketing information. Secondly, these companies will tell you that they can't get sufficient access to low cost local currency financing and of course the Africa Development Bank and others are working on it but there's an awful lot of money sitting in African banks given over the last few years for on lending to SMEs that hasn't been moving for all kinds of different reasons. So there's plenty for government to do to start unwinding why those banks aren't lending to start getting that going to take more risk and there's a lot of solutions that are being seen in different countries in Rwanda in Kenya and South Africa that need to go to scale. So let's get the market information right, let's get the access to finance. The equity and the long term debt are there but they're expensive still and then we need to see a lot of these companies grow and they need to be complimenting the big utilities the government owned, the big central grid connected because we need both the big grid connected and this off-grid market to grow at the same time. Our experience has been the money is there in the local market and in fact our complaint with the renewable power production is that quite a big chunk of that money has come from the local market rather than as direct investment from outside we would have preferred much bigger contribution from outside. This really revolves around the bankability of the project the project is innovatively well structured and it's bankable banks in the local market can fund it, there is always money there. But let me move on to another one where this I have to take the debate back so this is your and my first experience on stage together. I think it should be a pleasant one so I'm not being rude by it. No you're not being rude yes. But Mr. Dangoche has signal that he wants to come in here. Deputy President I think yes you are right there is money in the local banks but if you really look at it the interest rates are high that's number one. Number two also he said yes they can actually borrow out there. If you go and borrow money in Africa in some countries we don't have a stable currency and it is very dangerous for you to go and borrow money in dollars while your own generating your own generating machine is in Quatcha. So yes so it won't really work so all what you need to do government they need to really look at okay fine how do we support the power this is because with power it is a win-win situation wherever you go and double your power even you are internally generated funds that's government revenue will increase because you will now put a lot of people at work but what they need to do is to make sure that they make the either foreign exchange available but it is much better if I'm going to invest in Nigeria I would like to put my NERA first and then buy dollars so that I have the risk that currency and then I can now go and be charging in local currency so I'm coming back to you on innovation financing models and I want to come back to innovative financing models because I think the private sector at times they tend to sit on their laurels and don't go forward to government on an unsolicited basis with really innovative and winning ideas and my challenge would be if you are in the private sector go to government with really great ideas innovative smart ideas put them on the table and if they are not acceptable bring in another one and another one until you win because that's how governments work so you don't win at the same first take Yes, it is very difficult Yes, it is with us as entrepreneurs you have hundreds of things that you want to do Yes a lot of things why you are taking them to government they have lots of documents sitting there without them even checking so really it is not easy for an entrepreneur to keep presenting things and they don't really understand so contractors they can do so I'm going to get you back I think we've got to bring this debate back but I do want to just put some scenario in there if you go into websites and you look for projects that are being executed across the African continent in the power space planning phase, planning phase planning phase, planning phase bankability was the key word that we spoke about a minute ago so those ideas are coming forward but how do you get them to bankable so well they are actually not just in planning phase they are actually being funded if you take for example the case of Rwanda we did a lot of financing for geothermal in Rwanda we helped to create takeover bankability development company of Kenya which is a very innovative thing you go to the case of Morocco which is the new roughly 500 megawatts which is the largest concentrated solar power actually in the world that we funded so there's a lot of things actually being funded but two points I want to make to what the deputy president was saying earlier renewable energy you see for renewable energy we still have to understand that it's very difficult for those that are there to promote us to get access to long term debt for what they are doing and so as a bank we decided that the best way to do that is to create what we call a facility for energy inclusion which is a $500 million facility and I want to thank Rachel for all providing $600,000 for us technical preparation facility but that's $500 million that will go into those that have small projects less than 30 megawatts that you need access to financing for to be able to finance them to take that to scale those are the off grid solutions but secondly is that we can't just talk in terms of megawatts and megawatts or gigawatts at the end of the day there has to be access and there has to be affordability so energy access is fundamental and for us as a bank we think that to promote a lot of the energy access for people the last mile connection is very key and so we provide a significant financing to Cote d'Ivoire for example to connect to 250 communities to get access to electricity we did the same thing for Kenya with 1.5 million persons connected to last mile to get access to electricity so I think we've got to combine both of these things very very well but at the end of the day I think we need really as Aliko you can see the exchange between we've got to really get the government and the private sector together to really deal with how we do the massive reform of the energy sector because there is no constraint you were saying on capital side but we want to make sure that the policy the legal the regulatory environment the pricing issue gets set Africa has waited for too long for us to make the wrong decisions the room appreciates mine is a tough job five minutes left of this panel discussion and you can see this is why we have these four people in this room because they are at the heart of solving the energy crisis across the African continent but we've mentioned East Africa repeatedly I'd like to bring in now President Uhuru Kenyatta of the Republic of Kenya and get his thoughts on privatization in the power sector Kenya took a decision that our sector was going to operate on commercially based matter whereby we would bring private sector initiatives into the industry and we have seen it working superbly if we can focus on energy as we are doing for example in Kenya because what is our greatest challenge our greatest challenge is to create jobs we're not going to create jobs if we can't industrialize we're not going to industrialize power we then went out and did major reforms to our entire energy sector in 1997 and passed all the necessary legislation that actually opened up the generation part of the industry and through that commercialized our own generation entity and made it to start operating on a commercial basis in order to attract private sector we needed to first of all establish that we had proven reserves of geothermal so our GDC as we called it went out ahead and started doing the key exploration and this we invested in as a government we have been able to attract up to about let's say 30% of our now of our energy requirements are pumped into the system private sector 30% of their energy requirements are pumped into the system by the private sector let's talk about the independent producer project in South Africa this world class example what made that come together well what made that come together was a decision by government that government could not do it alone and in fact that we needed to bring in new technologies and those who had reached for technology were the private sector and we set up a special unit in the Ministry of Energy which would set out the policy and thereafter which would evaluate all these proposals that had to come and we had a huge number of proposals that came in because suddenly the private sector realized that government were serious about increasing our energy supply in the country and that we wanted to move towards renewable energy and smart energy for that matter and when that happened proposals came in and they were properly evaluated and we have a very good robust regulator as well so government policy was the real engine in getting this done but the private sector played a key role as well in sharpening the government's capability in this regard as well so I think we've come out really strong on renewable energies Rachel, if you have policy certainty will everything else follow? Is that what we're learning from the South African example here? It certainly helps so policy can be an accelerator because if it sends that clear long term signal, if it is open and transparent and fair and the terms are clear and if you engage the private sector to make sure that you're building something then it really helps and I think what's extraordinary is that good news doesn't travel as fast as bad news and what you really need is the energy teams across ministries in every African country to understand what the government did from the policy leadership from the top of the South African government from the leadership of the deputy president making it happen, the sort of delivery unit mentality of going around are you on track, have you done what you need to do, are you on the right table, what help do you need and then building out from that then you saw through clear power purchase agreements, you saw the participation of the private sector, you saw different financing and different capital coming in there were other interesting things going on in South Africa at that time that affected its investment climate but even with notwithstanding that they were able to attract billions of dollars of foreign direct investment and generate domestic investment into this so that lesson needs to be understood by every African team really Aliko, you want to take D'Angoti Industries to a hundred billion dollar company you've stated that as an intention, looking at policy, looking at where you're investing and the oil and gas environment where do you see additional policy stability across Africa to expand your oil and gas assets I think most of the policy, the most important one is actually the one in the power sector and in the same in one single location today we are doing about 920 megas of power that is to power our 3 million tons of fertilizer, urea and ammonia and also to power our 650,000 barrels per day of primary energy was also the petrochemical complex and what we did was actually we worked with GE to give us engines that can actually work with anything whether it is fuel water is the only thing that we will not be able to do is water so with that we have security but if you are talking about expanding what we need is pure clear policy direction because what we really don't like as investors in Africa is that you give a policy why yes this is the policy sometimes government will even say come and invest and I will give you this tax holiday I will give you this I will give you that the moment that you start the business as an entrepreneur you take the risk if things turn out well then second third year now the government will say let me remove this tax holiday but that is not in your plan I mean it is just like us in Nigeria for example we have a policy to encourage local indigents to get into upstream of oil and gas and I think they need to give them all sorts of encouragement to make sure that yes we do diversify into the oil and gas because by 2015 Nigeria should be pumping out about 4 million barrels a day but today we are still at 2.2 policy certainty we hearing it over and over again on this discussion President Adesina of the 12 task groups that you have set up within the vice presidency complex that is pushing the power agenda is there one of those projects that is focusing specifically on reform from a policy perspective absolutely I mean the vice president for power is here and he delivers so you can be sure that we will deliver on all the things that we are working on we have one of the departments that we have is on energy statistics policies and regulations to the point that it has been made because we really believe that structurally to change that sector we have to get the policies right the government has to be right the senate system has to be right and we must really base decisions not on politics but on evidence so evidence based policies is quite critical that's why for us as a bank as part of our policy based operations to countries last year alone we did even while we were developing all of this we did 1.7 billion dollars of investment in the power sector and a big part of that was with energy sector reforms like in Nigeria with Algeria that you will have multi-air tariff orders that addresses the point that Aliko is making and also that us will also look and assess properly the kind of risk that private investors face and use a lot more the partial risk guarantees for us to be able to deal with obligations of government not being met there are political risks that have to be addressed but even private sector to private sector transactions how you do risk that with partial equity guarantees are all the things that we have and the short answer to that is that we are looking at a holistic approach with financial solutions innovative financial solutions to the energy sector within the African development bank Mr. Deputy President you made a very strong statement at West Africa in Kigali about the fact that you could open a business in Kigali in 3 hours you spoke of South Africa putting forward a one stop investment shop as an investor in the 6 billion dollar wind industry in South Africa I would come to you to that department not necessarily to you sir but to your department and you would give me an end to end solution that was 6 months ago where are we in the pipeline the independent power production is an easy one because we as I said set up a unit in the department of energy so that's a simple one every license every regulatory provision is resolved there almost in no time because the unit is geared up to deal with foreign investors, local investors to sort out all the difficulties that any investor could have at local government level, provincial government with water with everything so they do that apart from that we've also set up a one stop shop at the national level and we're duplicating it now at the provincial level at the provincial level we've got those being set up I've got Mr. Zigalala here who is the MEC of economic affairs in Quasulunatal he has set one up and it's working very well and at a national level investors come they present whatever proposal they want immediately all the various disciplines in government have combined the various ministries they've combined to assist that investor within a short space of time and this I think is the thing that governments in Africa should do I just want to say that I really just like Rachel also commend the deputy president and the South African government for what they've done on the IPP procurement system in Africa we just have to work in and scale it up and so from the African Development Bank we made a decision to work with several countries where these similar conditions can be to take that IPP procurement platform for renewable energy to support things all across Africa so welcome let's bring in another voice into this discussion again from East Africa and that is president Paul Kagami president of the Republic of Rwanda even if we have problems or we want to have problems or we are interested in those problems more than having electricity why don't we separate these two let's continue having our problems but let's allow our citizens to have electricity so is the speed at which we are moving the right one I think there is progress but there needs to be made more progress than probably we are making I think this is where the argument is so we need to find some ways of some ways of accelerating what we are doing but if you look at these resources and then look at the needs the needs can also be divided according to how we are going to invest writing homes writing even streets writing hospitals schools and so on this may not need the kind of best load power you can use solar different kinds of great solutions but if you are powering industries if you are talking about and separating rural areas and urban areas where the industries are located then that will dictate the mix as well I do just want to open to the audience at this stage we have 10 minutes left of our debate any burning questions I will take 3 I will take you sir Thank you very much for this panel excellent panel from Nigeria, my name is Tonya Kose we invested close to 1 billion dollars in the power sector purchasing generation and distribution assets and since then we have seen the collapse of that entire thing on the policy my question is if as a Nigerian investing in my country at that level if we were able to succeed because of policy why would others invest in the continent if we cannot do it and then secondly what's the panel going to do for investors like us to encourage us to keep investing even in the continent where policies continue to change every day quick response, who would like to take that I'm only going to give one response from the panel I will I think first it's great that you are making those investments but I can tell you that the reforming policies take time but don't forget though 30% of all the business and regulatory reforms made globally last year were made in Sub-Saharan Africa so progress is actually being made what we can do at the African Development Bank is as part of our new complex on power we can support countries better now and remember as you said we are the first and the only multilateral development bank that would devote an entire vice president to the specific complex just to the issue of power so I think there's a lot of help that we can provide for you in making that but I've also said that for Nigeria obviously Nigeria will be a big giant economic power if it gets the power thing right and I think for us it's one of our biggest priority is how we work with the government to get the policy and the regulatory environment right and to solve that liquidity problem that is actually creating a big problem within that value chain for power and just a small addition to what President Adishina said I think in Nigeria really we have to have a major revolution where I think we need to have prepared meters a lot of people got into power business thinking that it was going to be like mobile where in 2000 we had only 500,000 lines and by 2015 Nigeria has over 127 million lines so you cannot be chasing customers to come and pay their bills it's just not possible in Africa so you need to really transform where you have enough prepared meters where yes you pay what you want to consume unless we change that it's just not going to happen because there must be money in the basket where everybody will be paid the distribution company will be paid the generation company will be paid and also the distribution company will be paid cost-effective tariffs also the people who are supplying gas should be paid but if people are not being paid then there's no way you can have new investors we've got four minutes left Rachel a quick one and then we want to take a quick statement we produce heat maps of who's doing well, who's moving fast who's not doing so well, who's not moving so fast looking at the investment climate the level playing field for different energy sources looking at where the need is, where the access gaps are who's got the greatest energy productivity in their economy and the answer is that in every region of the world there are countries that are making quick progress and doing well and there are countries that are standing still and there are countries that right next to each other are showing that how you can do it and how you can't do it and the question I think for the continent is right, this is a multi-multi trillion dollar opportunity for business all the evidence is that when you get it right the investment flows and we have to start a race to the top coming please thank you very much, my name is Hindu I'm coming from Chad and just to say that to develop Africa we need the clean energy this is the only pathway that Africa do not have the choice with this environmental crisis around the world you can ensure the full and effective participation of the peoples because we are not talking about the leaders we are talking about the population of Africa and this participation and clean energy need to do not violate other rights who are right to the land and who are right to the waters and to ensure that these peoples are taking the account of man and woman equality thank you for that statement and thank goodness we have more conversations beyond Davos we lead up to the World Economic Forum in Africa which also makes it possible for me to double-shake on all the promises that you've made on this stage today another comment and then we're going to go to our clothes good evening, my name is Uluwashi I'm from Abuja and my question is this we know that from your conversations there is finance and there is some capacity to generate power but the problem is access to power, that last mile delivery so what are the panelists doing or development bank or government or private sector to solve that problem of access because some people can actually afford to pay for power but they just don't have that access can I jump in here because we don't have time to go through the panel but let's go and look at the solutions like in copper the off-grid solutions 400,000 homes have been connected since it went commercial in 2012 500 additional homes are being connected on a daily basis it's a solar solution with a battery that has a mobile phone charger a radio and three lights you can now get, that's the 8 watt version you can also get a 20 watt version which gives you digital television as well we've spoken extensively about off-grid solutions the 500 million dollar fund that President Adishina and the African Development Bank have put in place particularly for the renewable space and for that entrepreneur so we are out of time but we're taking this conversation forward into West Africa could we end to stay in power you have to provide power thank you very much and just very quickly we've got one minute on policy certainty, that's the other element that I'm going to push you all on as we get into West Africa policy certainty, once you have the regulation in place, the rest will follow Mr. Deputy President do I have your commitment sir we have our commitment and I think policy certainty is going to be a developing process in Africa various countries are going to be learning from each other and if a country is, you know, lagging behind on policy certainty it will be overtaken by others so they will learn together as we move on commitment on policy certainty absolutely and that's why the African Development Bank will be launching this year what's called the Africa Investment Forum it's not going to be a talk shop at all that was for investments, transactional so that we can get help to sit in the room get private investors in the room make the deals happen and then deal with the policy and regulatory things that constrain investment so we're going to be on front end of this this year Rachel Kite, I want your commitment a complete commitment helping unpick where the synapses are missing or there's blocks in the policy the perversities are and also helping tell the stories of what's working Mr. Aliko Dangoete what's your commitment we'll keep convincing various governments to actually to be mindful about inconsistency in terms of policies once there's consistency of policies there will be a lot of more investments coming up thank you very much for joining us for this live debate coming to you from Davos where the World Economic Forum annual meeting 2017 is currently in session thank you