 But I'll give the game away since we all know label's necessary. The artist I can connect with me in a different way, besides the internet, it's gonna be the artist that's gonna flourish the most. You know what I mean? Because I can like 10 artists on the internet, but the one person that was in my crib, oh no, I love him. What's up, what's up, what's up? I'm Brandon Shawn. And I'm Cory. And we are back with another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcast. You can catch us every Tuesday, every Thursday on Apple Music, YouTube, Spotify, wherever you stream your podcast here at the intersection of currency and creativity. Artists, y'all can get that money and still be creative. Entrepreneurs, y'all are creative too. We already know this. And today we got somebody who lives that No Labels approached. It is not taking a normal path. Second time, first second time, attendee to the podcast actually. Super VIP. I appreciate it. J.R. McKee. What's going on? I appreciate it. Two times for any winner. You know what I mean? I don't know how many artists he broke, probably more than you can count on both hands at this point, you know? And he here to bless y'all with some game yet again. Appreciate it, man. To that point, I hate when people like don't consider executives artists in a sense. You know what I mean? Because at this point, you have to know what I'm doing is art. You know what I mean? If I broke one artist, two artists, that could have been luck. And that's what they used to say. One or two, that's luck. But we had like 10. So hey, man, don't treat me no different. Hey, man, yeah, I think people do slip on that because you know, for the people who are really doing it in this business, at a high level, and the ones, especially the ones who are closer to the artists, right? And you're an exec, like just watching you, you are closer to the actual situation. I just like sitting up in the room and everything. Like you have to have some level of creativity. Right. I mean, I work with them. You know what I mean? Like we work on the music together. We work on the artwork, the sequencing. We work on the entire body of work together. You know, I'm the behind the scene artist. You know what I'm saying? It has to be that way. That's why I've never built out a label where I signed 30, because I could have, where I signed 30 and wait for a fire to pop. I'm always in the small numbers. That's why we, you know, what we call boutique because we only deal with a small number of artists. And I do it because I have to be close to them in order for them to succeed, which is why so many have succeeded with me. You know what I'm saying? But it irked me out. Oh, this is, this is my art. This is our art. It's our art. You know what I mean? So my bad. That was the ick. I'm sorry. No, I love it. Talk that talk, man. People don't want to hear the executives talk, but I think we're in a space as there's more information being put out there. You know, it's time for the executive perspective to get out there, because everything's so anti the industry. Right. I think artists are starting to understand or we try to help artists understand. Yes, you can go against the industry and the model as a whole, but there's the industry is made of great people. Right. As well. Right. So the models might suck that people are working within, but you might have two really cool people at a label or two really cool people at a distributor. You can have somebody who's indie and or on your own team who's a bad person. So like you're obviously somebody who's been doing it right and speaking of that same thing. You've talked at length. I've heard you at least say this two or three times that the best executives aren't at the labels anymore. Yeah. Why is that? Well, because the model of the music business has changed. You know, we needed the music labels. We needed them because they literally control radio, TV. They controlled everything. So any person executive artists that wanted access to the masses had to go through them. But now the executives don't have to, they don't have to depend on that machine because they no longer have the control. Now I can go to the DSPs as a normal person through tune core, through, you know what I mean? I can go to all these places. You know, the access is wide open. So me as an executive, I'm putting in the same amount of energy and the same amount of brain power into breaking the artist for you. And I'm getting paid 100,000 a year and I've made you 100 million. Well now, you know, my access is the same as yours. Matter of fact, you need me. You know what I mean? You couldn't even get that 100 million without me. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go over here and I'm gonna make my own 100 million. You know what I mean? But and pretty much every executive has realized that, you know, and hopefully I've been a factor in showing them that, hey, you know, you can do this without being tied to any system. You know what I mean? All you need is the know how, the knowledge. The access is wide open. You know, all these people are on Twitter, they're on LinkedIn. So I can reach out to whoever I may need to reach out to. So there's nothing holding me back now. And so, and this is, you know, I'm not just saying this. You literally have seen it. All of the executives, they're gone. They run their own shops now. You know what I mean? Joey, he has his own shop. Ray Daniels has his own shop. You know, all of these people have their own shops. Tungy, even though he's tied as CEO, he has his own shop. You know what I'm saying? So everybody has started their own shop so they can make sure they secure their wealth as opposed to helping, you know, the major machine secure their wealth. Got you, man. Got you. Like that's interesting to hear. It makes me think about the executives on the come up, right? So if you were here today, right? Coming up, would you go into a label to then peep game and then try to get out? Or would you just build, ground up and maybe find some mentors? Like how would you approach the game for the young executive? Would you say, no, what I know or when I started? Knowing what you know now, but like if you started to like, what do you think would get you to the point where you know what you know now and can move how you need to be able to move now? You know what I'm saying? But you had to start today. Well, let's just say if I had to start over. Yeah, if you had to start. I wouldn't change anything. I would do what I'm doing. If I had to start so-so to the new executives. It's not necessarily about going inside a label because there are courses. You know what I mean? There are books and then there's just mentorship period. You know what I mean? These people are reachable. I'm always tell people when you're trying to meet somebody that's quote unquote doing better than you because I don't even believe in that per se. But when trying to meet somebody that, I guess we'll put it this way. When trying to meet somebody more experienced than you, the best thing you could do is bring some to the table. You know what I mean? So it's not difficult to meet somebody more experienced than you. It's just the fact that I have to bring some to the table for you to entertain this relationship. You know what I mean? So me as an executive, where I am, if I meet somebody and they tell me, hey, I love your content. I think I can show you how to do it better. I'm just gonna pick my interest immediately. Like, well, how can I do it better? What do you know that I don't know? And can you show me? That's gonna be my immediate mindset. And now we have a relationship. You know what I'm saying? So it's just coming to bring something to the table. So I didn't have to go inside and give you three years of my life. I just brought something to the table and now we have a relationship. You know what I'm saying? I can spend that three years building my business versus building yours. Yeah, yeah. So courses to get you the information, right? Mentorship to, you know, skip through some of that experience. And then, because, you know, the courses can only show you it so much, right? Right, right. Then connections and capital, what about those two things? Well, luckily for any and all business, not just music and artists, any exposure you need can be attained on your own through content. You know what I mean? So if you want to build something, you just have to learn how to market it through content. And so that doesn't take capital, that just takes paying attention. You know what I mean? TikTok, Instagram, they're all trends. All I have to do is figure out how to fit my brand into that trend. That's gonna give me the exposure. That exposure is gonna teach me the lessons I need and that exposure is gonna bring the income I need. You know what I'm saying? It's all possible. I mean, I started my record label at 21, I wanna say, or maybe 20 with no money at all. And so when people come and they talk to me about not having any money, it's not an excuse. You know what I mean? It's an excuse on there, but it's not an excuse to me because I'm like, what do you need money for? Go out and do it. You know what I mean? When people say they wanna be A&Rs, you don't need permission to be A&R, go find artists. That's how you become A&R. You just, the first word to become is B. You know what I'm saying? So if you be it, it will come. I like that. I might have to write that in the book. So if you be it, it will come, you know what I mean? So that's pretty much what it is, right? If you wanna start a label, then you start. You know what I mean? And you go out there and you make the content necessary to attract the right artists. You know what I'm saying? A big part of me being able to be in partnership with LaRussell was the content that I was putting out. I reached out to LaRussell for months with no response and then somehow it came across my content. And DM me, I love your content. I think I've been trying to reach you. But the content reached them. You see what I'm saying? And so that's how it goes. Like whatever you wanna do, because we're in this content era, it's attainable no cost to you. Just make the content portraying yourself as such. You know what I mean? And everything you want will come to you. Yeah. It's interesting you bring up content too. Cause I feel like maybe this last like two or three years. It's been the first time I've really seen like a lot of music executives stepping into the content world. Yeah. So do you feel like even just approaching content and what you do in being a part of the world? Do you feel like it gives you an advantage over like other executives moving in your space? Well, I do. I know that it gives me an advantage. And honestly, that wasn't the goal when I started doing content. The goal was to get the knowledge out there. You know, I started doing content because I wanted to educate people through a course. My initial intention was to be an in-person course. You know what I mean? I had no intentions of having an online course, but I started right as the pandemic started, which turned out to be a blessing because the online course reached way more people than I could have reached in a room. You know what I mean? So it turned out to be a blessing, but the content was always to educate people. You know what I mean? It wasn't in effect to help my business. As a matter of fact, when I started doing content, NPR didn't even exist, I think about it. You know what I mean? So it was never about helping my business. But now that I do have NPR, it helps my business tremendously because these people want to work with me. Just like a little Russell, he reached out to me. Even I've been on his case for a while, but he reached out to me because they want to connect with me. And maybe not always to do business with me, but at least connect with me and gain that mentorship. You know what I mean? And so I'm just very fortunate other execs are starting to do it. And I feel like I was definitely a leader in that space, but I want them to. You know what I mean? I didn't do it to, I'm not the controller of Instagram. You know what I mean? I want them to go out and spread this knowledge because the whole point was educating people. So the more people are educating, the happier I am. You know what I mean? The thing about doing content as a music executive is if you're not giving value in that content, you're not gonna go anywhere. You know what I mean? And so because of that, you have to educate. That's the only way you can get value. And so my goal for everybody is just to be educated so they can do business so that we can gain wealth together. You know what I mean? And it's going back to the music execs, it's just, I want to collaborate with these people. That's why I go on a Ray Daniels podcast and I invite Ray Daniels to my podcast. I want to collaborate. I want us to spread as much knowledge as possible. You know what I mean? I feel like my time in the music business is coming to an end, not because the younger crowd has come and taken it from me, which I encourage that as well. But I just want to do other things. You know what I mean? And so with that being said, it's like I'm trying to leave as much game on the table as possible so the next person can be far greater than I ever was. You know what I mean? So that's pretty much what it is. And speaking of game, want to take a quick break because JR McKee has put crazy game in this course. He talked about courses. He did a course, we collaborated and content is such a key to blowing up today but also strategy. And we touch on both of those two keys in this course. If you go to www.brandmannetwork.com slash Grammy, again, that's www, you can't forget that part, dot brandmannetwork.com slash Grammy. You can get this game. He says he's putting it all out there. He's working with Lil Durk, Rod Wave, Her, just got in number one with Justin Scott. A few months ago. Pretty long, Justin Scott, Chris Montana. The names are out there. He's certified. Just so many wills, now it's about to pop. Shout out to Marty Noel. She's having a crazy emergence right now, TikTok. So just shout out to all the people, my boy Garen, shout out to him. Everybody I work with man, shout out to y'all. Hey, so obviously the experience is there. The information is down there. Check that out. We'll also put the link in the description for those who are watching on YouTube. But with it being said. Well, wait, I wanna give y'all y'all flowers too. Because y'all were a big part of this course. You know what I mean? And the knowledge that y'all added was extensive. I was like, man, I give out a game and I break stuff down. But I think y'all break stuff down tremendously. You know what I mean? And so I was looking through everything that you guys added. And I was just very impressed, man. Very impressed. So shout out to y'all too. Yeah man, we got that same mission in terms of the value, man. Like you can't give nobody something and not be value in it. Because now they don't trust you anymore, right? Yeah, exactly. It's always gonna be something of value when we move. And I think this is one of our best yet because we had artists who were to me already doing a significant level of success. I actually got it. And they were like, yo man, this changed my whole strategy for the year. I love it, man. I love it. It's dope to hear that. And I didn't see it. But wanna move on. We've been hearing this that is gone from like 50,000 songs dropping a day to 100,000, right? 38 million songs with zero streams. Zero streams. And I almost didn't believe that it's how I actually came across the artist with zero monthly listings. And I was like, wow. Cause every time I come across an artist, they'll have 50 or 100. I've never seen zero until recently. And I was like, dang, I guess they went online when they said 38 million. Yeah. He's so far removed. He's like, man, that's really out there. Yeah, I was shocked. So what's your perspective on those stats? Do you look at it as, hey, this is a lot of competition that's being dropped every day? Or are you like, man, only a certain amount of these people are really taken seriously? Or do you not even look at other music ads competition in terms of the attention that it takes from one to the next? Honestly, no, I don't look at it as competition. I'm gonna go back to the first part of the question, the second, but as far as competition, I don't look at it as competition cause the beauty in music is everybody can be number one. You know, I can be number one this week, the next week somebody else come in. A really thing like Apple Music, I'll be number one for this hour. And then two hours later, you could be number one. So it's like, it's a shared space at the top. You know what I mean? It's not a space where only one person can be number one. So that's how I kinda look at it with my other executives that are at the top of me. It's like, I'm gonna help make sure you get yours. You know what I mean? Cause the truth of the matter is you can be number one for one minute, get that screen shot and that's all you need. That's the truth. You know what I mean? So for me, with my friends, like I wanna just make sure they reach that. You know what I mean? I'm not involved. You my boy, I gotta help you. You gotta touch that number one. So it's not a competition in that sense, but as far as being oversaturated, very much so. And I just feel like, man, just like kinda like, I care about who the president is, but at the end of the day, I gotta make it shake for me. And so that's kinda how I feel about it being oversaturated. I care about it, but I gotta make it shake for me. I gotta find a way. You know what I mean? So that's how I move with it. That makes a lot of sense. And the way you make it shake today, is the point that you said you made, I think Jacory sent me the video and I was like, yeah, man, we've been talking about the same thing, having your own media company. As always. How do you look at an artist having their own media company when you say it? Cause I know what I think. Well, I mean, first of all, you have to recognize that you need that media. You know what I mean? All music discovery, well, not all, I can't say all, but majority of the music discovery is through content. You know what I mean? So you have to recognize that that's the only way, well, the best possible way you'll be discovered and the most likely way you'll be discovered. So once you recognize that, then it's like, how do I keep up with the demand of putting out X amount of pieces of content a day? Well, that's why it's called a business or a company because now it's more than just you. You have to put together that team that understands content. And what I learned from you, that team that knows how to speak the language of TikTok because that's the language being spoken in content right now, right? So you have to understand that I need a team that understands this to help me execute that mission. But with artists, they still have, in all things in their business, they still have to be the visionary and the leader in that, you know what I mean? Because even if I hire two people to help me make content, they can't make me get out of bed and turn on the camera. You know what I mean? They can't make me sit back and think of the ways to deliver this message. They can help and they give me ideas and they maybe can show up with the camera when I allow them to. But at the end of the day, if I'm not the person that's the most gun hole about this, it's not gonna get done. It's not gonna be successful. First, you have to be the number one and then you build a team around. You have to be Michael Jordan, then you have to go find your Scott and you had to go find your Dennis and you have to build that media team. Just like when I started NPR, I knew this already. So I didn't hire A&R team. I hired a content team. That's the first thing I hired. I said, okay, I need to find people who understand content. So I hired that team and we signed Money Long and then five months later, we were number one because we understood content. You wanna move streams, you need content and we understood that best. But now, you know, here we are two years later, everybody has followed that blueprint and so now you have this flooding. And so now I was like, okay, they flooded what we were doing great. So we have to find another way to be great, you know what I mean? Because that way is too oversaturated. And so that's what we're in the midst of doing with the Manny Wells and with Amari Noel. We're in the midst of changing what it looks like to be great in order to succeed because our old method is flooded already. Is this beyond content? Are you saying we need to do something else other than content or is it doing content in a different way? It's doing content in a different way, you know what I mean? But it does go beyond content and you know, I don't mind, I'll tell you what I believe, you know what I mean? Because I haven't proven it yet and I usually only talk about stuff I've proven. But I'll give the game away since we all know it was necessary. I believe what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to find ways to create experiences, you know what I mean? You're going to have to find ways to create experiences and then from that experience, the content will be able to break through on the internet. But you have to create these experiences because everybody's on the internet. But the artist that can come to my hometown or while I'm out at their hometown, whatever the case may be, the artist that can connect with me in a different way besides the internet is going to be the artist that's going to flourish the most. You know what I mean? Because I can like 10 artists on the internet but the one person that was in my crib, oh no, I love him. You know what I'm saying? And so you have to find a way to create these experiences and of course you have to document those experiences and put that content online because that experience will reach that one person but the way that feeling comes across the screen will reach millions. You know what I mean? For example, Manny Wells going home for the first time in Nigeria. You know what I mean? Him showing the experience of connecting with his father at the 14 years, although you're not him and you're not his father, you feel it. You know what I'm saying? It's connected with him in a different way. Exactly. I know Manny for a while. When I saw that video, that's just different. It's just different. And so how do I create those experiences more often to be able to connect way larger on the internet? You know what I mean? And so that's what we're in a process of figuring out for Manny and for Amar and that's how we're gonna break them and take them to the top. It's great, man, because hearing you talk is like there's always things that we're on the same page with. I've been waiting for something that we can argue about, but I haven't seen it yet. But like, because we even say the way fans see you treating other fans, they almost appreciate it as if it was them, right? Yes, yes. Like showing, like you said, these real world experiences like I did this with a fan or like this happened in this private event that we had with the fans. Like we had an artist who's doing this real dope private event and she was able to sell out with 75 tickets for $100. That's dope. On a 75 cat room, right? And she's already gearing up to do another one. Like nothing, right? And the way that's gonna connect and have to be shown back online. It's all the same thing. And I think that leads to something, I guess, what's required on that side, right? In terms of doing an event well in your opinion. I mean, again, this process, I don't wanna call it new to me, but I'm trial and error in this process. And so I'm still learning. I don't have this master yet. But I think at the end of the day, it has to be, what's the word I'm looking for? I don't wanna say small. It has to be limited. It has to be, it has to be, it's a word I'm looking for. What has to be personal has to be intimate for sure. But like, what's the word when like the quantity is small? I can't think of a word, I almost lost on me. But anyway, let's just stick with small intimate. It has to be that because it has to be personal. You know what I mean? So that's number one. It's like, I feel like it has to be personal. Like every person there has to feel a much deeper connection with you than they would if they were at a concert with 3,000 people. You know what I mean? Because again, you looking for that feeling to come across on camera, because it's still about content at the end of the day. You know what I mean? So that feeling has to be different than the feeling of 3,000 people. You know what I mean? So I think that's the first part. It's just those intimate experiences. And then after that, it's just like, it's just, you gotta make a connection with those people that are there because those are gonna be, you know, kind of like your bull horns. Like that, every, out of those 75 people, every single one of them, I promise you they're gonna talk to 10, 20 people about you. You know what I mean? And so that's how your fan base spreads. You know what I mean? So you just gotta make sure they feel like this experience was amazing and they got to connect with the artist. Because I think what's gonna end up happening is instead of having two or three just super dominant superstars, everybody's gonna have their own space. You know what I mean? So as a young fan, as a 12 year old, as a 15 year old, I'm gonna have two or three artists that I really love that most people would have never heard of. You know what I mean? And so that's gonna be the way that consumers experience music. In my opinion, moving forward, they're gonna have their people that they love that everybody else isn't up on. And that's fine because I haven't been to this person where there's only us and 50 people. You know what I mean? Like this is my guy, this is my girl. You know what I'm saying? So that's how fans are gonna feel about their people. About their artists. So I think that's more or less what we're headed to where everybody will be able to have their own thing versus all of us loving Beyonce. Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I'm not saying we'll love Beyonce forever, but the point I'm making is, it's gonna be you have your people versus everybody loving one person. Yeah, it ain't gonna be to have any new Beyonce. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But this space has been created because if you look at technology, how right first it allowed us to connect with people in other places, then it got to a point where we got detached and then you had working from home. So you have these people that don't have a way to connect and create community in the same way it was just natural without us thinking about it growing up. So you have generations that are looking for people to connect to and a lot of them are doing it through their artists. And when you add these events and create community around yourself, that's what I was talking about. This is part of what we were arguing about between the West versus the LaRussell. I didn't know how to let it go. I'm not gonna let it go. I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble. It doesn't matter. It was great for the content. So you gotta hold the position on going forward. Yeah, you gotta stand on it. I'm gonna say you gotta stand on it. But so there's a difference between having a very strong fan base. You can have a very, very, very strong fan base and be successful as an artist versus having a community, right? And the community are also going to be fans but they're not a community. The community requires the fans to actually connect and interact with each other and have a certain set of values. All Drake fans don't necessarily... Have the same values. You know what I mean? Right, I get you. The Russell, you can probably identify what they look like. J. Cole has a bit of a community going for it, right? You kind of know... Who his fan base is. You can look at him. He's a J. Cole fan. Yeah. Exactly. You know, you put a dream of a fast fan. It's like they all kind of look like they're in the same category. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. They call J. Cole backpack rapper. So yeah, I get it. New age backpack rapper, for sure. So that's what you get the opportunity to do at these private type of events. Or as a private community. Whatever those type of events are. And you can still sell to people at these events, right? Yeah. It's a great size. And because there's a smaller community that are accustomed to supporting you, they'll support you with much larger numbers. So I'm not selling these shows for $20 tickets. You know what I'm saying? I'm selling like you said for $100. I'm selling them for much more because this is a small community that appreciates me much more than they appreciate somebody that they just seen online. Yeah. You know what I mean? So you're actually able to make more revenue doing it this way. Keeping it small, keeping it limited. Yeah. What I think is interesting too is like fans have kind of been asking for that for years, right? Like you only see fans say like, man, like I'm trying to get keep you, right? I'm trying to keep you just to me. And it feels like now they've come to the realization like, oh, there's a price for that. Yeah. That price isn't going to be cheap. But to your point, I would much rather pay $100 to be able to daff up my favorite artist in the game. Right. $300 just to seed rate. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I mean, I think it's, the times we are moving into are beautiful. You know, it's going to be, it's going to be an amazing time and amazing atmosphere. And artists are going to be able to eat, you know, finally. You know what I mean? Like every artist that is able to create a community is going to be able to do well. What is your, like what is your artist monetization model look like right now? Like what are kind of like the first couple of things you start building towards with the artist in terms of being able to make revenue back? Well, you always got to start with that, that limited. You know what I mean? You always have to start there because if you don't have, you know, a strong fan base in your building and you get your first 100 fans in your community, like you get your first 100 people on Discord. And obviously you got to be active with it because you can have a hundred people with only 30 show up. But that comes because you are active. You know what I mean? So if you active inside that 100 person community and you have majority of them showing up, I can sell you 10 things. I can say, hey man, you know, there's only 10 of these. You know what I'm saying? I'm selling them for $20. And you just condition them to understand like I need your support. And they'll be very happy because they want to be like I was here first. Like this was her first drop. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so it's just about, it's just about keeping it limited and keeping it important to you because you can't just put your logo on a shirt and call it merch. You know what I mean? Like you got to show them like this means something to me because that's the only way to mean something to them. You know what I mean? So just thinking like, you know, what really matters to me? What do I identify with that I can make a product? You know what I mean? And then let me, let me, this month I'm gonna sell 10, next month I may sell 20. Community grows, okay, now I sell a hundred of them. And this could be literally how you pay your bills. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm on selling a limit number, I don't have to sell this T-shirt for what people are used to buying. Used to paying 20, but I can sell it for a lot more because they know like this is super important. I'm not just selling you a T-shirt. You know what I'm saying? So the importance and the values that you put on the product is gonna grow the price of it. You know what I mean? So you're able to make real money but you have to start very small. Yeah, I saw that is always nice. Me know he had put a merch dropout and there were a lot of people in the comments. I mean, he charged like 150 for a hoodie and I go to the website and the hoodie sold out. Yeah, you gotta just gotta start small, man. But keeping it limited is the key. And I still haven't thought of the word I'm looking for but keeping it limited is the key. Yeah, gotcha. Speaking of the Russell, speaking of like community. Scarcity, I think scarcity is the word I was looking for. That's probably the word, okay. So speaking of all those things though, you mentioned doing a drop with him last year, right? Can you break that down, the approach, the lessons you learned and things got a lot better? Man, what did I learn? I learned a lot, man. I learned a lot. I mean, what happened was he hadn't put out like a full body of work. Like he had dropped mad music like the Russell. Well, he hadn't put out a studio project of work. He was doing like, you know, recording outside of live shows. He would, everything, I swear to God, every time this man put his lips to a mic, he records it and he sells it. You know what I mean? It don't matter what it is. You know what I mean? Everything's for sale. Everything's for sale, right? And that's great, you know what I mean? But he, up until that point of his explosion, he hadn't put out like a studio body of work. You know what I mean? And so at the time, I knew of a platform called Even. So Even was a brand new platform that hadn't even launched yet. You know what I mean? We ended up launching the platform with the Russell as the first drop. But I knew they had built this platform to sell music. You know what I mean? Because they knew that direct to consumer was about to come back. So they had built this platform to sell music. And of course, sell music and access, right? To the artists. And so I told the Russell, I said, yo, I know some people. I think you should talk to them. You know what I mean? So I connected them and he was selling, what do you call, shares of his music already? Like he was already about that life just to keep it simple. He's already about that life. So all I did was connect him with a platform to help him continue to do what he was already doing. You know what I mean? So his community was well-primed. It ain't like, oh, I'm all of a sudden out of nowhere gonna sell y'all something. They had been purchasing from him. So he had already built a strong fan base that was used to supporting him in that way. You know what I mean? But this was just his first studio body of work. And a little short short, we connected with even. We put it together and we dropped the project on even a week, I wanna say a week before it dropped on DSPs before it streamed. You know what I mean? And so over that week span, I wanna say the first day he sold 1,000 copies by like the second day it was at 2,500 copies and in total ended up selling 4,000 copies. But he had already come up with this structure called pay what you want. And so basically what that means is you can give me $10, you can give me $100, you can give me $2,500. Whatever you feel like this art is worth to you, that's what I'll accept. You know what I mean? Pay me what you want for this art. And man, it's freaking brilliant. You know what I mean? Because LaRussell is so special because it's not just about music. He stands on values. And when I tell artists, when you say something, everybody says they're independent and they love independent, they wanna be independent. But saying it and actually doing it in practice, it's two different things. And so everything he had been doing up to that point was the practice of selling his art versus streaming. You know what I mean? And so that ended up paying off big time because he had people pay him up to $2,500 for that album, he ended up making like 150,000 in sales in the first week off that album. You know, the album streaming wise didn't really do anything spectacular. He was on the charts and stuff like that because he had become a name at that point, but nothing comparable to the one week of sales he did with that project. And he turned around and sold another one like three weeks later that did like 20,000 the first week or something like that. You know what I mean? And so, I mean, that dude was phenomenal, man. That's an important thing though because like we talk about it all the time looking at all these different metrics that artists go by. And you just said like it didn't do crazy streaming. I think currently his monthly listens are somewhere in like 300,000 or 400,000. His name and the marketing behemoth he is. Yeah, I like it. Laura, so you are a marketing behemoth. I like that. I like that. And he's someone who truly has a media company. Yeah, exactly. And how he's moving, he's able to do numbers and connect with people and make that amount of money. Who's making that much money from streaming? Not a lot of artists. Not 150 a week. And especially Indy. Not that, yeah. All right, especially Indy. You, the ones who are doing those numbers still got to bust it down to somebody else. So it takes, I don't know how many, it's probably artists with 100 million streams that are barely making that kind of money. No, they definitely not, man. They definitely not. But I mean, I think that he's opening the door for all artists to be able to do that. You know what I mean? Like he's a big catalyst in the direct to consumer coming back. You know, cause that's what CDs were. You know what I mean? $10 now, of course, even back then, unless you were independent, you weren't getting the bulk of that. But now it's space for everybody to be independent. And so even if you go out and sell your album for $10, bro, you're making way more than you'll make on streaming by far. Yeah, that's true. You know what I mean? And so even if just $10 sell, album sell, you're making way more. And that's the crazy part about it. You said a lot of things, right? Cause you talking about audience was prime for it. So we built a relationship that we can exchange in this way. You're used to paying me money for things. Not a certain amount, but at least you're used to paying me $5 at a time. That I need to be supported. And all the messaging that requires someone to be used to selling, buying from you, you already had to establish. So his relationship was there, but then his message, you go back to them values, they're very strong, very clear. And he repeats them over and over. He stands on, he practices them. That's when they say stand on. It's like he did it in practical ways. You're not just saying it. You see him practically doing it. He's practicing what he's preaching. You know what I mean? And so that's why, you know, he gets resonated with so well. Yeah. You know what I mean? But we shifted from, this is the only way you can get this music, right? The CDs, albums and all that stuff to streaming. Music is free. But now it's not the only way you can get this music, but people want to access the music through things where we pay you money. The music is free, but we want to, but now we're doing it by choice, which means you definitely have to give us a reason to do it. Right. There you go. There you go. You're absolutely right about that. It's an interesting landscape, man, but I think that's going to be, I always say, there's these artists that feel like, I wish it was like, let's just say the nineties or whatever, or they didn't have to create all this content, da, da, da, da. But it's like, well, if you look at the 2000s, you look at the nineties, every single era, there is an artist that has a gripe with the way, the way he's done. That era, right? And every era lends towards artists who might be naturally more strong in a certain skill set. You might be crazy writing game or back in the day, the ones who could sing, sing, sing, right? Advantage versus the ones who are now like auto-tuning, they can't sing, right? So every era has its own advantages. Music isn't supposed to win in one specific way or another. That's just the era. That doesn't mean anything to do anything. Yes, like I said, you got to make it shake. You got to do what you have to do. You know what I mean? If this is what you want, then this is what you have to do, you know? And so that just is what it is, man. And so, but I think exactly like, no matter what era you were in, if you're the type of person who's complaining about content, you would've been complaining about touring. You would've been complaining about doing radio shows. You would've found something to complain about. You know what I mean? That's just part of the mentality. That's why you have to change your mindset if you want to win. Yeah, like, and it's so funny when you go through enough history, you always see a lot of these elements at work, right? I was listening to the audio book of Will Smith's book, maybe back in like earlier last year or something. And he imaged just for doing this thing where there was a phone line where people would call in and they were paying something like a dollar, a minute or something. And maybe it was more expensive after that, but he was making like $10,000 a day to people call to hear their voicemail. So like, you know, Will wasn't actually on the line, but they had like a message that they would leave for their fans and we're going on our tour. And hey, this is an update of Howard and you just giving them this thing to tap into. Yeah. All this stuff is listed. I like that. There's actually some, a way you can do that now. Really? So there's a company called Logcast, L-O-G Cast, Logcast, and they have a partnership with Spotify. And so basically you can set up a subscription. You know what I mean? So if they were paying a dollar per message, you know, you can charge a dollar subscription, however you want to do it. You can charge whatever you want, but it's subscription based, right? And what you can do is you can leave those voice notes in order to upload to Spotify immediately. You know what I mean? And so, you know, upload a song and Spotify takes two, three days, but the voice notes upload immediately. And so the same way they can come to your Spotify page and see your music, they can also come to your Spotify page and see the voice notes. And you can charge whatever you want. You can make it free if you want, but you can charge whatever you want. So you can basically run that same play through Logcast and Spotify. So, but the way you just explained it gave me a great idea of how I can have my artist input, because I see the tool, I just didn't know the best way to implement it. And that's a really good way. Yeah, that's great. That one point you just made, because all these tools out there, how do you use the tools? And I like, a lot of the artists on the come up, the indie artists, I feel like they get inundated with all these new tools. Right, all these different things. And you feel like, I gotta use this one. I gotta use this one. Don't fall for all of their marketing, man. Find the ones that you can figure out a way that makes sense for you. And then leave it on the table if it don't make sense at the moment. Right, yeah. Well, you touched on actually while we're in the space of like content and community and building that team and all that stuff. Let's talk about money. Corey, can you play this clip? I got a great clip from Wiz Khalifa that I would love to hear your commentary on because I know you know about some money. I think I've seen this clip too. A lot of people don't know there's a lot of private companies and a lot of investors who will invest way more in a project than a record label will. I'm talking about way more. And if you can block yourself into one of those deals, you're gonna get some cheese. Wait, can you school us a little bit on that? I just said it. Five investors, way more. They're buying staff, radio, they're promoting it and you get millions of dollars up front. But is that an exclusive to someone like you who already has a track? No, if it's worth money, it's gonna sell. You can lock in a deal and you can find a company that is not a major record label that will invest money and you'll get right. And it's crazy because they just invest. So you run everything. I'm asking for the average artist that's trying to not go to the major label. Oh, I don't know the average artist. Rao, get funding. Is that something that they can access? Anybody can access it because these private companies are investing in what's making money. So if it's valuable, if you can go on tour, if you can sell merch, if you can sell records, if you have streaming, if you're monetized, if you have a video that's doing certain millions of views and it's guaranteed to make a certain amount of money, they're gonna invest a certain amount of money to grow the project. Whatever this project is, it could be for an amount of time or it could be for the single project. Somebody can be in their basement, somebody can be like, yo, I see the potential and you're growing. Here's $220 million. $220 million? Yeah, we gave him a little game. Okay. I know that 220 was like a big number and he threw that out there like basing it in 220. Like that might not be fully realistic on that point. But the gist of what he's saying is absolutely real. But I would love to know like you, cause I know you have experience in these spaces. Yeah. So, I mean, that was very exaggerated. You know what I mean? Very exaggerated. But at the core of it, there's so much money flooding into music. You know what I mean? People are treating catalogs and music the same as real estate. I mean, I can buy this asset and it'll appreciate. It was going to appreciate because most of the world isn't streaming yet. And so once all of Africa, once all of these different continents have full access to streaming, what's going to happen, that revenue is going to go up because they're going to be listening to that catalog. You know what I mean? That catalog music, when you look at the Apple Music Chart, 75% of it is three years older. You know what I mean? There's only about 25% of new music on the charts. And so people understand if I buy this catalog today, come three, five years from now, it's going to be doubled about. It's going to appreciate. So, some ways of getting in is buying in now before they put the music out. Or buying single songs. There are businesses out here that are buying singles. They'll find a song and say, hey man, I'll give you 50,000 for that song. They're doing it as many creative ways as possible, but the point of the matter is, I know I can buy this asset and I know this asset will appreciate. So that being said, there's a lot of money flooding into music. Now it's all about connections. Because if you don't know these people, how can you, you know what I mean? Like Wiz Khalifa made it sound very much like, they're just, you know, one phone call away and they're not, you know what I mean? It's definitely all about connections. But they are looking for you, but you still gotta have somebody that knows somebody that to be able to connect those dots for you. I think the general thought price for an artist should be, if I make enough noise, everybody will find me. The major label, the independent, the distribution company, the investor, they'll all find you. You know what I mean? And so that's just what it comes down to. They exist. There are private investors out there that exist. It's just about- They're not up to find you. Yeah, it's just about making enough noise for those people to find you. You know what I mean? Because I already explained before, like you want them to come to you versus you going to them. Because when they come to you, you have to leverage. You know what I mean? And so I just think as artists, make enough noise and everybody will be at your door. Distribution, indie label, major label, private money, they'll all come. But he's correct, it exists. You can get a much better term dealing with private money than you can a major label. Yeah, yeah. I know one thing we've been starting to see a lot of too is like the micro-investing communities, right? So not necessarily coming and giving artists like these crazy checks like Wiz was saying, but like they might throw you 10K, 50K, something like that. No, they'll definitely throw you, man. I don't know why Wiz said 220. I don't know why he said that. You know what I mean? Like that's, I don't know why he said that. I was telling Sean, I think there's business investment money and not music. Like, you know, he got all the other companies. Yeah, even the business, you know, it will have to be doing extremely well. You know, Tom Moskowitz was what, 250. You know what I mean? He had two of the biggest artists on the planet. You know what I mean? So even from a business perspective, that business had to be doing extremely well. And so that was a high number. Like, I think he was high and he threw out, you know what I mean? But the money exists and it's out there, but, you know, make enough noise and every single, you know, opportunity will kind of be at your doorstep and then it's up to you to pick which one makes the most sense for you. And, you know, if you are entrepreneurial enough and have enough know-how, the private money is 1,000% the way to go. Cause like you said, you're still in control at that point. The money is just an investor. They're not, they don't, they don't tell you much about the music business. But then also at the same time, that's where like an independent label like Miles will come in because if you don't have the knowledge, you need smart money. And so an independent distribution company is usually the smartest money because they're not gonna take as much from you. They have the same financial back end and they have the expertise. You know what I mean? So if you have everything you need, just get the money. If you have everything you, if you have, well, if you don't have everything you need and you need a little help, but you don't wanna give up everything then you take the smart money. Or if you like, yo, I want a big upfront check, take the major deal. Cause that's gonna be your best bet to get that upfront check and some know-how. You know what I mean? But if you're entrepreneurial, you know, you feel like I'll wait on the back end and get my money independent distribution is the way to go. Cause you gonna make a ton more money on the back end. When you take that big check, you're never seeing the check. Like there are artists like Rick Ross who just tell you, I never saw a check. You know what I mean? And so that's the cost of taking that big upfront money. But you know, I'm only 37, but I've lived long enough to know, I don't care what amount you get. It ain't gonna last. It's gonna go away eventually unless you invest in smartly and something else. I don't win broke three times, I think. You know what I mean? And every time I thought I was balling. You know what I mean? Every time, I'm that guy broke. It happened to me like three times. So I understand like, okay, how big the check is, bro. Like you can blow that money for sure. You know what I mean? And so I just have learned those lessons. But I like what we said because it did put the message out there. It just put it out there a little high. Yeah, a little high, a little high. We have an artist that he'll work with us here and there, cause we knew him since he was like at zero basically, right? Yeah. And he did something recently where he had a song moving, distro deals, got offers, you know, all that stuff. But he was like, nah, cause he already did a singles deal and didn't really like the way that felt. Yeah, like the way it felt, yeah. And I understand. He had been building his business credit though all along. You sound like boom, man. That's a boom man strategy. I just came across. I didn't know that he was doing the business credit or something. I literally just came across that. I was like, is this the same boom, man? But yeah, so he got like 10K from the business credit and versus like 15 or whatever the distros are offering, recouped in 90 days and he, you know, keep moving. You know what I mean? So like, it's definitely, even if it's not to 20 or stuff like that, small moments of time where you can have access to something, if you are someone who could build a business credit on that level, which is a whole nother game. You gotta do that before you need the money. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't tell you much about business credit or the behinds with you. Like I said, if you wanna know that game, you flip right over to my guy, boom, man. He teaches it thoroughly. You know what I mean? He taught to him, man. He teaches it thoroughly. But yeah, I couldn't tell you much about it. I mean, I am very much of the mindset of spending other people's money. You know what I mean? Again, I went broke many a times. So I've gone broke because I'm the type of person that's willing to gamble at all. Like if I believe in something, I'll spend it all. Like I don't care, like, bro, it's gonna come back. You know what I mean? That's always my mindset. You know what I mean? But what I learned was it doesn't have to be my money I'm spending. You know what I mean? And so when I started NPR, I got investors. You know what I mean? Because I'm starting something scratch. So if I own 100% of it, I'm never going nowhere. That means I lost all of that money. But if I own 50% of it and go somewhere, I'd have spent no money. And now I got this 50% income coming in every month. You know what I mean? That's just the way I look at business. And I was like, I would much rather split whatever I got to split in order for me not to spend my money. You know what I mean? That's how I go into every business. You get what I'm saying? And so I think as a artist, again, goes back to the same principle, get hot and the money will show up at your doorstep and make a good deal. Make a good deal so they spend their money. But I think the best money is gonna be smart money. That's just like if you start a tech company, they won't take everybody money. They only want the smart money. They only want the smart money, you know what I mean? And so as an artist, I would always say take the smart money, but if you are smart in your own right and you really feel like you got it, then just take the money. I don't think there's no right or wrong way, but my advice is always smart money, you know what I mean? But if you feel like you got it, bro, just take the money. Just take the private investor. Yeah, like I said, even a little bit of smart money can go a long way. Cause we've seen crazy stories from like $4,000, you know what I'm saying? $10,000, less than that, you know what I'm saying? I think our best, one of our best campaigns ever, we've only spent like 3K, you know what I'm saying? In that case, we were the smart money. We were the smart money, we were the smart money. I feel like artists always kind of undervalue that while they see the big numbers being thrown out. But I know lots of indie labels who are like, if we can just get 15K, I know how to make this go crazy with that. If I can just get 5K for this single, I know how to make things go crazy with that, you know? That's such a great point though, because like I hadn't really realized it, never clicked because I had that tech background. That was the only way I looked at investors and things like that at the beginning. Like if I'm in a place of need, I'm talking about, and I'm early on trying to build something up. It's like, yeah, I can go get a little bit of money here if I need or like go to maybe some family members or whatever, maybe to get it. But like we're really talking about entering the game. It's like, yeah, the people who can also tell me how to build this tech platform out, have all the experiences of what type of team needs to be built, that whole thing. It's because I guess part of it makes it easy to take because there's just so many complicated aspects to it. But that same thing really does apply to music if you really think about it. Cause I feel like music is more complicated than a lot of industries. Like I was confused when I first started like moving in music. I'm like, why is it so much in the way just to get to the first level of money? You know what I mean? And you can be missing money cause it's not filed over here and there. Like what smart money is, and smart friends, mentorship, whatever. Like you can't do music without it as far as I'm concerned. Music is tough because the product doesn't automatically make income. You know what I mean? Like any other business that you're selling a product, you're selling the product for a profit. You're not selling it for less than you pay for it. You know what I mean? It's a business where you're selling the art for much less than it costs you to make it. You know what I mean? And so that's what makes it tough because you kind of just, you never know if this is going to pay off or not. You know what I mean? You can put a hundred million, you know, whatever you want to put into it. And it means nothing because you never make any money. You know what I mean? So it's a tough business. But if I like narrow it down to like it's easiest form, I think the best storytellers are the ones who win. You know what I mean? And that's what we do. Like we tell stories. So like our first conversation with our artists is always we want to know your story because our job is to take that story and put it into the content. And that's the music and the visual content. And we can get that story out there to people they'll buy in. And so that's really at the root of what we do is we were storytellers. You know what I mean? And so. I think it's immediate, man. Yeah, yes. Y'all don't need to be looking at just Spotify and what's dropping there. Y'all need to be looking at noisy advice. How do they keep people watching, dropping these documentaries and telling these stories? Before I ask you this next question, just a quick reminder everybody, go to brandmannetwork.com, www.brandmannetwork.com slash Grammy to cop this course because Jay Har has put it all out there. I've never seen someone who's been able, who's been a part of breaking an artist on this level. We're talking about zero to Grammy actually offer up this information detail to detail. You know what I'm saying? And like it is there and it's gonna give you a clear perspective of what it really takes. And this is my favorite part about it actually. Like clarity is the biggest value to me in a lot of cases because once you know some things or you're aware of all these different information there's this like steel curtain in the music industry. Everybody's trying to be so secretive but well a lot of people don't realize some of this secrecy is because it allows us to seem bigger and more special than we are. We actually aren't even doing anything all that special, right? So if you see JR say is this, this, this and you know for a fact he got to this goal post. It's like, wait, no, he really just did this. Yes, but it was hard work, right? That part is not missed, right? It's like, no, I had to grind. You'll see how fast he had to move and things like that. But like the clarity just knowing that this shit ain't magic is the biggest value you can get. Yeah, definitely, man. Take the course, study the course. That's don't take the course, study the course. Facts, facts. Again, that's www.havetoputinwww.brandmannetwork.com slash Grammy, y'all should know how to spell. Grammy y'all are in this industry. Now that being said, TikTok, the game has changed, right? We've talked a lot about the game changing just from 2020 up until last year but we haven't even put any conversation out there about TikTok this year. And you were talking about it before we shot this pie. So what's your perspective of the changes on TikTok and how that's impacting everything? Well, I mean, TikTok as social media platform continues to grow. So it's not the aspect of people are leaving. That's not what's happening. What's happening is it's a business. And so in order to attract business, they were giving away eyeballs, meaning like the algorithm was wide open, meaning pretty much everybody had the opportunities to go viral and did. You know what I mean? If anybody was posting on TikTok consistently, I promise you they have two, three videos with millions of views. You know what I mean? Because TikTok wanted to make sure that they stayed on this platform or they came to this platform. Like people were saying, I want to viral TikTok, that means other people will come like, oh, let me go get it, go viral. Everybody want to go viral, you know what I mean? And so that's what was happening for the first two or three years. But now that they are the largest, you know what I mean? I no longer have to do that. Like now I can start bringing in heavy revenue, meaning I can start charging you for those eyeballs. So if you still want to do those million views, here's the price. You know what I mean? Run these ads. And you know, that's how they become, a billion is nine, 11 figure businesses. You know what I mean? A hundred billion dollar businesses because they can create that sort of revenue. You know what I mean? So anyhow, point being, now that they are in this space where it's like, okay, everybody's here, now we can make our money. You know what I mean? Now TikTok, you can still go viral on TikTok. You know, I do it not as frequently but probably like every other week I have a million view video, you know what I mean? So you can still go viral on this. I'm not saying you can't, but it's way, way down. Way, way, way, way down, right? All right. Well, the great news is this is a war. So you have Instagram, you have YouTube, you have Facebook, they are at war for those eyeballs. And because they understand TikTok's algorithm has tight end, guess what they did? They loosened theirs. Because here's our opportunity to get those eyeballs back. You know what I mean? And so now the way I used to go viral on TikTok, I can go viral on Instagram. I can go viral on YouTube shorts. You know what I mean? I go viral on Facebook. Man, Facebook is a sleeping giant. I had no idea how much power was in Facebook, but it is our biggest platform. You know what I mean? Facebook was yesterday. It was yesterday, last week too. Like they've been having a lot like this. Facebook Reels is our biggest platform. I'm talking about numbers. You know what I mean? Numbers. So yeah, so that's pretty much what boils down to like, but I always tell people, if you're doing this every day, you'll see the shifts. You know the shifts and you'll know what's going on. And I think because we do it every day at such a high level, that's what makes us a smart money. Cause you know that we know. You know what I mean? Cause we do it all day, every day. But yeah, I mean TikTok, you know, I don't know the future for them as far as this whole band, but I will say I pray that they don't get banned. Because if the competition goes away, then here at Instagram, I no longer need to give you these eyeballs. You got to come over here partner. So I'm gonna go ahead and get my money back up. And they stop giving away these eyeballs. And that's what I don't want. You know what I mean? Because those eyeballs are the freedom to create businesses. You know what I mean? So that's how we create artists because of those eyeballs. And so if TikTok goes away, that less is a competition. That means that's gonna tighten up the algorithms because now, you know, I don't have that, I don't have that person detracting eyeballs from me. So I can charge you again. You know what I mean? So I really, really hope that TikTok doesn't go away. Bro, what you're saying alludes to me. Alludes to the point that I've really been keying in on over the last four months where the model in today's social media, people who have to rely heavily on the media side of things, have your base and then cap on the opportunities, right? Have your base take advantage of the moments in time. So TikTok's moving over here. And before it was like, oh yeah, I'm a TikTok star. I'm a YouTube star. I'm an Instagram. And you just only look at it like that now. It's like, I'm a YouTuber. Yeah. I'm a Twitcher. Who's popping right now? Who's giving the advantage right now? I'm gonna take advantage because the landscape might change, but you just need that base where people can always go back to. You need their data, bro. You need their email and you need their phone number. So no matter what, if TikTok go away and there's new thing pop up, what's it got to limit eight now? There's new thing pop up, you know what I mean? You said limit eight? Yes, it's a new platform. Yeah, it's, I don't wanna call it blowing up, but it's doing its thing, you know what I mean? But new thing pop up, it doesn't matter. I have direct access to you, you know what I mean? And so that's what's very, very necessary is the phone number and the email. And so what you have to do, free game, you have to start giving your fans incentive to join those lists, you know what I mean? Now, if this isn't new game, this is what's been going on for decades. You're supposed to have been had a list, you know what I mean? But I feel like people were so dependent on social media, Instagram became so big, TikTok became so big, they forgot. So here's the reminder, you need lists. You need a community, you know what I mean? The Russell is brilliant as he is. He has his list broken down into different things. These people play instruments. These people have yards, I can use those shows. Like he literally has his list broken down into like these segments of whatever he may need. You know what I mean? And he gets it by simply asking, hey man, if you play a violin, fill out this form. Anywhere in the world, play the violin, fill out this form, put your city in. And now he has a database. No matter what city that man go, he got somebody to play that violin. You know what I mean? And so like, I can't say enough about him, he's brilliant, right? But this is a blueprint that all artists should follow. You know what I mean? And I think a lot of times artists, their ego getting the way of just asking. You know what I mean? The Russell, when he wanted to sell that album, he didn't go do this, do that. He put the camera up, hey guys, I'm selling my album. You know what I mean? And he sold 4,000. And so I think that you have to, as an artist, get rid of the ego or the fear and just go out there and talk to your fan base, treat them the same way you want to be treated. You know what I'm saying? Be very, you just talked about clarity, be very clear. This is what we're doing. And at the end of it, he always, I need your help. You know what I mean? He'll just ask, I don't say big, but he makes it clear, I need your help. You know what I mean? And so I think that, you know, that's an amazing blueprint. And I think the person that comes after him, like, because Nipsey was before him, you know, now you have the rest of the person that comes after him, man. I'm scared to see what that person does. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because he's setting a phenomenal example. And so, and I kind of, you know, hope to feel that way about myself is like, I feel like as an executive, I'm setting an example and I can't wait to see what comes next after me. You know what I mean? Is it? I don't know if this is random, but like the Russell, I just, it seems so like random or like it was written. The fact that, like we look at Nipsey, Russell, and we look at Russ, two of these dominant people in the space and then you combine his name. Right? I was just saying, man, it seems crazy, right? It's just, what part of Nipsey? Russell and Hessell. And we know that he's, yeah. Oh my God. Yeah, see? I'm just saying. Oh my God. Russell and Hessell? I'm just gonna test that that is his real name. Oh, I expected to be. Yeah, that's his real name. That's what I said it was written. I didn't say he made it up and brought it together. I can see if he brought it together. I'm just saying the coincidence of it, to me, is weird. By the way, is the, I mean, I probably can ask him this, but like, is the LA, is that love? It's love. It's love. So it's not LA? It's not LA. I heard when we were talking to Isle Kenny the other day, he called him LA Russell. Yeah, but I mean people would make that mistake because that's what it looks like. It looks like LA. But because he's from the base, so he's not even from Vallejo. Okay, yeah. Yeah, well, look, well, one more thing to get into because we already kind of touched on the need to go D to C, right, direct to Consumer. And it was always there. It never left the idea of it, but social was working so great. It was hard to do anything else. Just like touring, it was working so great. People didn't look at anything else until like, pandemic. Pandemic, they looked at other options. Little something else, right? So how do you view direct to Consumer for artists in their business right now? I mean, it's basically, everything's gonna be, or has to be community driven. Like you have to have your own community because going on social media and trying to sell something, we all know like your post art is only gonna get shown to 10, 15% of your following. You know what I mean? But if I had this community, I can pretty much guarantee 100% of them will receive it. That doesn't mean everybody will open it, but 100% of them will receive this text message. You know what I mean? And so there's just a great difference in my ability to sell. If only 10% of the people can see it versus 100% of the people, how much more am I gonna sell if 100% can see it? So that's why the community is there. But then it's also about training them and having them understand I need support in this way. I mean, you start with that scarcity, I'm selling 10, I'm selling 25, I'm selling 100, you just grow from there. But you never wanna eliminate the scarcity, like ever. You always wanna keep that as a part of your model because you wanna keep it personal. You wanna keep it personal. And so I think looking at somebody like Manny Wells who's building his community right now, like him being able to go on a tour and whereas he wouldn't have been able to do 200 seats in every city because he couldn't afford to, 200 seats would have been, 200 times 20 would have been $800. God, I hope that math is right. 200 times 20, 8,000, thank you, bro. Poof, is it? No, 4,000, I'm tripping. 220, 4,000, all right, yeah. All right, so let's, oh yeah. All right, so let's rewind. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. 200 times 20 would have been $4,000, but his expenses would exceed that to fly five. So he's having a ban and all that shit, yeah. Yeah, to fly five people and all that, say it's physical to see that, but now that I'm able to offer these shows on offer basis with some, you know, LaRussell sort of pioneered, meaning there's only 200 seats. I'm gonna put this out there, you make an offer. If 1,000 people make an offer, now I can go in and pick out the 200, I'll make picks on them at the low end just to be nice and make sure the people who can't afford to pay how I get in, I may pick some in the middle and I'll probably pick the rest of them at the top. So because I've sold this 200 seats offer base, I've made $17,000. Now I have plenty to come in and do my show. And now I can go see more cities because each city I make it enough to cover the cost and make a profit. And so just because of these new thought processes and these new mindsets and way of attacking, you know, building that community is out there, you're able to really go out there and get in. So I think many worlds is gonna be one of the leaders in that standpoint, because he's gonna be one of the first people to really show that process. And I really mentioned him because his content is, and so the way he's able to document and show you his processes is what's gonna make him one of the biggest artists in the world, you know what I mean? And because you have a little Russell who set up these different ways of doing things, now somebody like Manny Wells can take advantage of it, but not only that, he's gonna show it to you in the way you've never seen it before. You know what I mean? I'm O.D. excited about Manny. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm excited to watch that for him too, because again, all the tools are the same, but you express them differently as a community. So now it's gonna be dope to see that. You mentioned something. It was the last thing I wanted to say. It was about that direct to consumer access. Oh man, fuck, I wish I could remember it. I don't remember it. How did I get 800 out of 20 out of 40, bro? Yeah, I leave, boy. What's crazy is I'm an A-plus student. I graduated and went to college at 16 years old. Oh man. And I just couldn't tell you 200 times 20. Mama, I'm sorry. If you watched this, I'm sorry, mommy. Oh man. Well, look, I guess I remember that question. I'm gonna have to shoot. No, I remember what it was now. Okay. It was a text that I got. Oh yeah. I brought up Mark Echo. From the clothing line? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and I was talking about how he doesn't really get his flowers media-wise. The fact that he did Echo Unlimited. Echo Unlimited, he did a cutting soul, like a higher-end brand moves significantly into fashion space and then complex as a whole, right? Started complex magazine, that entire media entity with him and he sold it off. Yeah, that's him. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. People don't know his story. And he was talking about the guy in the chat, Sam was responding well. He's like, a lot of it is probably because you look at these people like Virgil, who else is moving out there that he probably named? All the guys that are moving now, Virgil, Fear of Guy, I can't remember Jerry Lorenzo. Right, just these other guys now. He was like, well, their stuff is a little bit more exclusive, right? And Echo was so commercialized and everything, right? And I was like, well, if you look at it, Russell Simmons, Jay-Z, Sean Combs. Well, apparently we can't call them Sean. You gotta call them like Diddy or something. Diddy, Love. You gotta call them Love. Right, and Echo, all these brands were actually proving out the culture. So they had to commercialize it and sell it at certain levels just to get certain investment support and things like that. And now we're moving on the ground today, they created where we can do these more selective brands, be more exclusive like what you just said, right? And I think a lot of this, that artists are gonna have to get over is the selling aspect, the more exclusive aspect of it because the benefit that they have today is the fans are actually ready for it. This is the culture that's out there today. And there's already been people who have sold big numbers and I'm sure you're watching those people who the groundwork's been laid and they've hit these big numbers. But we can't, we're not gonna be at a sale in that same way. We're gonna have to do this exclusive approach to maintain that value over time or like people aren't even gonna connect with it. All right? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I don't know about the Mark Echo story and then him leading to where they can have a smaller brands. I don't know about that, but we might have something to disagree about there. It wasn't just him though. I said, all of them guys, I feel like they had to prove out the culture, specifically in hip hop, right? If hip hop never hit numbers, you already know they didn't wanna hear from us anyway. They didn't wanna help us out, they didn't wanna let us in. So we had to sell big numbers just for them to respect. Yeah, right, from the corporate side, right? Right, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I definitely used to wear Echo. I definitely remember that. Let's start there. I definitely did. Yeah, I think, I don't know. I mean, the example threw me off, but I think that what you are saying about fear of God and off-white and all of those, and even go back to like a Supreme, like the exclusivity and the scarcity is what made those successful. And maybe they primed us for where we are now. You know what I mean? Because fans are ready to support, you know what I mean? They're ready to like be a part of what they believe is cool financially. You know what I mean? They're ready to give up that monetary because they've seen, you know, these small things stay cool, like off-white is still cool, Supreme is still cool. You know what I mean? So I think those brands definitely helped the culture in a way where it's like now we're ready to, we're good at understanding the process of being a part of something like this. You know what I mean? I agree, I agree. Clear, just to be clear, I'm not saying Echo is the Godfather out here. He came from an era when people had to commercialize. Yeah. So your era that you just alluded to came back. See, I just don't know about that they had to commercialize part. To hit a certain level. Dapper Dan was my, otherwise they were gonna be Dapper Dan. And they didn't want that, back then, they didn't want Dapper Dan to really, like he got limited, he got shut out. He should have been way bigger based off of his talent and skill. You know what I mean? That's what I felt. Yeah. I mean, you obviously much more than close to me. So I'm gonna take your word for it. You know what I mean? I'm gonna take your word for it because like I know who Dapper Dan is I knew about him before like the Gucci stuff. So I feel you, but I just, I didn't even know the Mark Echo stuff. So I'm gonna take your word for it, man. All right, all right. Well, look, one way or another, man, appreciate your grace in the pot. Again, you are definitely someone who represents no labels and someone who's left a label, right? He's definitely taken it seriously in terms of how to move this day in general. And for those of y'all who are out there still listening at this point, the end of the pot, we appreciate y'all. Y'all are why we get to keep doing these because people who listen to the end, they help this thing get viewed, you get to watch time up. So keep watching to the end. If y'all got extra time in your life, you know, go ahead and just let that thing play. You know what I mean? You can even walk out the room when you need to, you know? But we appreciate y'all. This is yet another episode of No Labels Necessary podcast. I'm Brandon. Sean. I'm Cory. Oh, and I'm JR McKee, man. I appreciate y'all. I appreciate Brandon. Sean is a Cory. And we out.