 So, let's get started. Is there a public comment for items not on the agenda? Yes. I would just like to remind everyone that you're not already aware, and I might not know what I'm making right there, but I know the set word is aware. The annual meeting of the friends of the Callis-Town Hall is this Thursday at 10 a.m. It's a meeting session, and Barbara has been posting it to Front Porch Forum, so you can look there to see the Zoom connection if you want to join the meeting. The purpose of the meeting primarily is to advise the public of what we've been doing over the past year, as well as elect board members. There are some new people who are going to be joining the board who will be nominated, and, of course, we always open the floor to nominations as well. So I encourage everyone to join us, and we didn't know that this much time later, we'd still be waiting to reopen the Town Hall for public use, but we're getting closer. And once we can do so safely, I know we'll get the blessings from the select quarter. That's all we have. All right. Well, thank you, and thanks for talking on one of the fewer crises. You're welcome. You know where to find me if you need me. Yes. Okay. Did I find you upstairs? Wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, is it here? Yeah, it's here. All right. Additions or changes to the agenda? All right. The norms are circulating. There's a signature for the norms. And first up is consider the approval of a letter to VCDP for the ECC grant award extension. And I am recusing myself. So everybody else? You're alone. Yeah, yeah. I have the letter. So the first of this extension is consistent with the initial award. If certain pieces of the project are not complete, then we must request a six months extension by October one. And it is necessary that we that we do so. It's pretty straightforward. This is the, this is just to say out loud. This is the Vermont Community Development Program grant for the ECCT for the work on the ECCT or the East House story. Any questions, John? Okay. Is there a motion to request a six months extension to the VCDP grant award? No. Is there a second? I'll second it. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstaining. Okay. Thank you. I will circulate. I will sign and pass this along for you guys to sign. Okay. Next up is the East Council's easements. Do you want me to talk? Sure. Okay. So a little over a month ago, the select board was approached about granting easements to benefit three parcels of property in East Calis. Lisa Wilson and Arlene Holm are in the process of selling a piece of property in East Calis. The buyer's attorney identified that there was no documented or deeded easements corresponding with the driveway serving these properties. The driveway comes off of Moscow Woods Road, splits here to benefit these two parcels, and then there's another split down here to benefit the third parcel. So the lack of a documented deeded easement potentially creates a title issue for these folks, and they of course had difficulty trying to sell this property and approached the town about granting an easement, or easements, multiple easements for each of the benefited properties. So that effectively there is documented title that goes along with the driveways for these parcels, or for these parcels. That of course runs over a piece of town property that we believe has been in the ownership of the town since about 1830. So I was here a month ago. You voted to, in concept, move this process forward. The way that you did so was to post notice of a proposed conveyance of these easements in the Times, Argus, and in a certain number of places around the town. I think it was at least two. Excellent. Perfect. That posting requirement by statute allows the voters an opportunity to present a petition to the select board by the town clerk, objecting to the proposed conveyance. It is now 31 days since the posting was approved by you in first May, and there has been no petition submitted. So the next step in this tonight would first be to select from among you one person who will be authorized to sign the deed on behalf of the town. And also we're going to sign a resolution and certificate that essentially says we gave the public the notice that we were required to give by law. The easement deed that you will be granting, as I say, conveys an easement for ingress and egress over the existing driveways. It is limited to the present extent of and in the present locations of the grantee's existing driveways. So where they're located and to the extent. And they are not exclusive so that other folks can use and travel over these as needed. And it goes and it would be somebody else sold their house. It would be. It runs over land. Exactly. It's a pertinent to each one of these top parcels. The easement provides that the grantees, the parcel owners are solely responsible for maintaining their driveways. So the town isn't going to be taking on that obligation. And it also reserves the right to the town to change the location of the easements in the event that the town would need to at the town's expense. Provided such change does not frustrate the purpose of the easements or significantly lessen the value of the easements. So it gives the town some flexibility in the future if there's some need to move the driveways to a different location for some purpose or use of the property. The town can do so at the town's expense so long as access to the parcel is maintained. And I assume there's a process that we would have to follow the town would have to follow if that were to happen. We would give them notice that that was in fact what we intended to do. Invite them to a discussion about what we anticipated. Engage them in a dialogue and go forward on that. Okay. There is also going along with this a survey mylar for the town. The survey was created for this parcel. It also shows the town's property out here. So we've asked that a mylar be created and it will be recorded with the easements. So there will be a better public record of the town's parcel and what's there. Who's reading that? The... Lisa's attorney, Clare Rice, is coordinating getting that done. The survey already exists. It's just not in a recordable form. Is that basically the Paul Harrington? That is the Paul Harrington. Yep, that's the one. Forgive me, but I don't know what a mylar is in this context. A mylar is a type of paper. It's just a recordable type of paper. It's not a transparency. It's not a transparency. It's just a paper that is more of a standard size for all of us and how big it has to be. Okay. So that's it. And then I'll show you what we're here to do. So I would first ask that you choose... Okay, can we get... If the board has any questions? Any questions? Thank you. Well, thank you. That's great. Sounds good. And what we'll do is once I get all of the... Secure all the signatures, I'm going to deliver it to Lisa over here who's going to bring it to Clare Rice for attorney. Clare is going to take this and property transfer tax for attorney. She is working up as well as the mylar and deliver them to the town office for recording. But of course the town office isn't open right now. So any questions? Question? So do you need a resolution? I have a resolution. It's already free. And maybe... We just have to designate somebody to sign that. Someone to sign the deed and you will all sign the resolution. Okay. So I know that we designate a charity's will to sign on behalf of the town of Calis, the deed. It's not all of the paperwork. I'll second that. In this regard. Okay. All of the paperwork, please say hi. All right. So I'm just going to hand write that in because that was a little bit of a detail left open. At least we'll... It's a good solution. All right. And then is there a certain amount of time within which the board has to get this done and over to the office? Well, the closing for the sale of Lisa's property is the 30th? I don't know. We're waiting to get this done. The buyers had to have another appraisal done so the bank might need a couple of days to get their paperwork together. But normally something like this might be recorded at the same time. That's what I was wondering. It's going to be done in half the closing and recorded with all the other documents that get recorded. That would become not necessarily recorded. Because it has to be... You have to have this before you can close. And you can have it done. But yeah. But as a practical matter, they can all come in together and this gets recorded first. So therefore it was there first. And the attorneys all have the evidence of it. Do you need one of us to move this resolution? Second. Yeah, why don't you do... I move the resolution and certification regarding conveyance of the municipal real estate. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. You got that, Katie? If you want to do your own work time, Mark McCauley moved the resolution and certification out. Can you say your own work? Yeah. Resolution and certification regarding conveyance of municipal real estate as described in East Calis. We can't see her. Thank you. Yeah, and I seconded it, and it will be known as... Thank you. So Denise, you would sign or indicate it right there upon her please. And I don't have a photocopy or anything. I need a PDF. Oh, you have a PDF? I can read it. And you have a number rising into you? Yes. And Denise, was this your free act indeed and the free act indeed of the town of Calis for long? Yes. Also... Thank you. Good to see you. Another job well done? No, I have a... Oh, you're going to give this to Denise. You have no one. Looks good. Yeah? No shadow? No shadow? Not too bad. It's all livable. No shadow makes it look like it's from 1830. There you go. 1830 PDF set. That's right. It's all livable. My son just made me get something called... What's it called? Genius Scanner? Scanner Pro. Looks pretty neat. A Czech scanner. Can you just scan it? Yep. As soon as you get to the ear, it's kind of... Yep. Because the SEC uses... Amazing technology. And then it lets you... Amazing and scary. And then it lets you send it to everyone. Thank you. See you. See you. See you. See you. See you. Have a snake. It all happens when we're on a ship. Join us on the ship. If you're going to spoil our plans, maybe you want to do it there. Well, let's see what the four of us... Okay. So this is just a pre-visit. And give the permit based on your site visit out there with Alfred. Is that correct? It was correct as of Friday. And now I would say it's not what we intend to do. So if I can cut to the chase, first thank you board for agreeing to the requirement. So it's different than what... What do you sense? I'd be glad to give you a quick chronology. But I just want to set the table. I want to be respectful of other people's time. I don't want to take anything away from others. So if I could just offer a quick recap of where we got a permit. Alfred is here to, you know, bring us into perspective from the town's point of view, from the commissioner's point of view. So originally what weck proposed to do, and I have some images of people I've seen that I can point to this helpful picture up here. So this is what we call pole six. So as you head towards east, towards the intersection, this would be the last structure that Weck owns that you see. And then it goes underground, under the road, crosses across from Alice and Evans House and Briggs, and then surfaces behind the museum in a structure that looks quite like that. There's a pad not a transformer that serves the two residences, Alice and Briggs. There's a bad wire. And that was the impetus to ask the town for a permit a month ago. So thank you again for that. That was plant A. Our engineer met the road commissioner out there and there was concern. There is a concern about the culvert. There's a five foot culvert. Alfred can describe it more specifically. I'd just like to kind of give you the full sequence in where we are tonight. So there was a proposal and the design advisory board was brought in because Weck first proposed to put a new pole. Oops. Do you want to go back? Well, I don't know if the board cares. I'll show you on the image. The map's fine. The sketch is fine. That might be most useful. And I have copies and paper if anybody wants to. So this represents that pole six that we saw in the image a moment ago. Here's Alice and House. This pole that sets on her property is not ours. That's consolidated in Comcast. This red line represents the five foot culvert the town has between this set of coming off of Curtis pond. The pad mounted transformer and we have a bad wire somewhere in here. That's the whole purpose of our initiative is to replace bad wires and follow the existing right of way, which would be this line. When Alfred pointed out the culvert, Weck came up with plan B, which is what the request a week ago and what is pending in front of you is about. And that would have us put a pole right here, which would stand taller than the image you saw before, because it has to have 18 foot of clearance across the roadway at the lowest point. And the pole that is we call number six is actually below. It's probably 15 foot under the road surface below and to the to the north. So this would need to be elevated where we to do this here. The DAB took its proper responsibilities and there's no support for this because of the aesthetic impact on the fly last Wednesday. There is no support? Well, there was some support, but I would say if you read the email since there there's basically a decision by the DAB to pull back because they presume that Weck is now going to pursue follow a different path. But I wanted to just kind of get to that in a sequence. So on the fly last Wednesday night, the DAB proposed a third option called plan C to put still another pole somewhere in tangent with this pole. And this is slightly out of scale. It's not really accurate. It would be, you know, in somewhat in the same line of sight because we would have to line this pole with this pole and that pole. But our pole would be somewhere adjacent to that and then run underground across the road and then back along the right away to the backside of the museum. Has Allison been consulted? She sure has. She's on the zoom tonight as well. So, you know, and I don't claim to represent Allison or anyone or the DAB for that matter, but then just getting to the moment the matter I spoke of. So apparently we had not consulted with the road commissioner until today. But as of Friday, one of the members of the DAB was saying that WEK is now reconsidering, which may be the case. It's not plan B anymore. And that's not acceptable because of the aesthetics because the DAB assets are. I didn't see a notice that the DAB was or see any kind of a decision from them? I can't represent what they decided. I can only represent the email traffic that, you know, resulted to concluded that the DAB was not going to take an active position at this point because WEK, apparently they felt was not going to follow plan B. I'm sorry, Bill, I'll ask you. So plan B was what you originally, what WEK originally proposed. The day is followed the existing road. That's what we approved. Correct. Thank you. Who's plan was plan B? Wex. No. So then the DAB heard, let's just keep it generic, that Alfred's plan wasn't going to go either. And they, which they didn't like. And so they didn't engage, haven't engaged on plan C. They actually proposed it. They proposed plan C. Going back to Denise's question. Through what mechanism? On the fly, I wanted to say night last. On the fly, I wanted to say night last. With Allison present and all four members of the DAB. On an email? In person. And Toby was there as well. Got a question, Bill. With the, now long that there's a row of trees and there's a wetland, I wonder if they were there when we were looking at that. Is that going to be an issue? Getting it all, you know, with those, you know, getting those above ground cables up to that final hole. I would say for plan A, no, this is our gun prove. And A and R has an allowance 10 foot over. It leads us in the right way. And we're not in that. You know, we don't get to see that. Plan B, same thing. Plan C, unknown. And the reason I say unknown is because what we've done with Neil Maker is we now looked at the amount of cutting that would need to be done to move open the line up to hit that new point. And that's the most expensive and sensitive area of any of this option. And it's not something we would like to propose. So, Bill, not to intentionally try to be a stick in the mic, but it seems to be in my DNA on at least on this board. There's an issue that's not directly a WEC issue or a road commissioner issue. The issue for me, and I'm guessing the rest of this board, is that if the DAB actually has jurisdiction over deciding on that hole, which I have no reason to doubt, then they wanted to provide official input. They're a body of this town or a commission of this town appointed by the select board. They need to warn a meeting. They need to make it available to the public because there may be other interested public. And it's my understanding. I've not seen a warning. The select board wasn't notified. Not that they have to notify us, but there should have at least been a post of warning of that on-site meeting. We had the same issue last year. And it's the same time of year. It seems like in the least fall, it's a public process. So I would just say that any decision of the DAB is not a legitimate or legal decision. Not that we wouldn't agree with it in the end. And it's a flawed decision from a... From a not legal perspective, but it's from a legal perspective, it's illegitimate. The process wasn't followed. So it's an illegitimate decision. Well, it's not valid from a procedural standpoint. Right. So I'm going to skip to the end and ask, absent that process, is there anything that we should really be continuing to talk about right now, or should we remand this back to Bill and Alfred and the DA to come back with what Alfred knows that you made as well as those that we've been working really hard to get in the interest of time here, respecting public process, to get things fully packaged with all the right procedures followed before they come here. So hearing that that may not... Well, sounds like... Hearing that that appears to not have happened here, is there anything... There's nothing for us to approve tonight, right? Well, because if the DAV didn't follow the process of noticing, noticing a site visit and meeting, we haven't even seen any kind of final decision issued by the DAV. Right. And I would want somebody from the DAV here, and if they're not here, then I would want to see their decision consistent with what you're presenting. I would actually also want to see why the B was less appropriate when you're going overhead across the road. I mean, it's a comparable distance, maybe even shorter, that crosses a road with overhead, but there seems like there's some... He's an engineer. I would have looked at the site myself just for some clarity, too. I'm not sure what... I don't deal with the DAV very often, so I don't know. I'd like to know what their... So can we either delegate Rick as our point person or Rick just say, why don't you go to the DAV's site visit where they're meeting to... Well, I think I'll have you answer your questions. Right. And I think our minutes will reflect that the process needs to be redone and they need to follow the correct process. I don't think there's anybody on the board that would disagree with the fact that the process wasn't followed by the sounds of things. Right. And all I'm saying is, in addition, Rick, can you just find a way to get... I'm not going to ever have those kinds of questions, so can you... Is it reasonable to say could you participate in that process in some way that you have those kinds of engineering and that deeper insight that you have addressed is part of a process before it comes here? These are more reviewable and kind of their aesthetic decisions. Like, yeah, I'm guessing, right? I mean, basically, on both sides of the road, the conditions can be similar. I hear you crossing the road with the above ground versus running around. I guess it also turns on where the district corners historic district boundary is. My guess is wherever those above ground poles currently are, that's outside of the district. It's not. Sorry. Can I speak to that? Yeah. Good. So, the answer direct question. The boundary on the west side is where our three-phase transmission line feeds the substation, if you know that. Okay. The level starts rising. Lines cross. Essentially that. I know what substation is. That's the profit line. Okay. So, back to what I'm asking on behalf of WEC, beside your patients here, because it is kind of convoluted, and I don't want to get in the way of the DAV process, or any site visit. But what I'm here to do for WEC is to ask to rescind the request for the revision. As long as, I'm not trying to put you on a spot, as long as we can work something out with Alfie on plain A. And I can speak to what we've talked about. I don't want to force the issue, but the DAV wants to get involved. But I don't want to pursue plan B. Or C. Or C. You want to pursue A then. Okay. So, the B reason is the aesthetics by the DAV. The C reason is because the wetland impact on the north side of the road is relatively much more significant than using the existing pathway. That's our preferred group. And I have a hypothetical just to kind of tee this up. John was here, maybe not. So, back in O3, when I brought to the sec where then the issue of the curse on Dan, I'm going to draw dots and try to connect them here. So, if this thing fails tomorrow, that five-foot culvert, what are you going to do? Because members are going to be affected immediately. Members, meaning? WEC members. Yeah. Everybody up and down this road. Anybody that's wetland. It's caused a clover. For them to be old. And we can back the members from different directions, but it takes time. And the reason of reading this up is not to throw any kind of rents in the works, because this is absolutely something that we need to think of. When can we reasonably modify, you know, Alfred's issue with going this route, doing this route is going under the culvert. It's a five-foot culvert. To do this right, we'd have to get it out, pack down everything, and put it in. We don't want to do that. And now we're proposing. This is the change. It's to go over the top. The three-foot depth barrier. And it's in the right of way. So we've got to permit for that. It's the specifics of how we set up the prospective conduit so that it makes it easy to react if the culvert fails or if there's time when the budget allows to replace it in the normal course. So I'm not the construction guy. Alfred is. I would like to go back to planning. And we would not like to pursue plan B or frankly plan B. So would you then be keeping the permit that we were generally issued? Exactly. And when was that? I was going to ask that question. When did we issue that permit? That was... I don't understand. I mentioned that day, but I wasn't here. There were two members. It was on August 23rd. I don't think we need to do anything. I don't even. The permit that you have stamped. Right. If you want to come back to us with an alteration to it, it has to go through a properly worn process. Right. Which is fine. Well... No. It didn't know the new DAB. Thank you. That's only one option left. There's three out four options on the table. Yeah. Not on this table. We're back to option one. A. I guess... Right. So option A doesn't... satisfy my concern. Again, you guys don't even haven't even heard my concern yet. Oh, yeah, right. And Toby, Rick, and myself met there today. And we have another idea. Don't know if it's possible. Don't know if what can do it. But I'm trying to protect the town from later on if we have to change that culture. Right. And also the members that are going to be out of power for who knows how long. So the idea that struck us today is can we do a quick connect, disconnect on the north side of the culvert. So you come across... Like you are right here. Come across right here. Disconnect box right there. Then in five, ten years we have to change that culvert. You disconnect here. Pull this back through. Feed it to power everybody up while the culvert's being done. We replace that culvert. You come back in and make your disconnect back. I don't know if that's possible. But I need something to be able to change that culvert down the road without having to pull 300 feet of wire. Can that culvert be moved to the west? It's a long, valuable culvert. It's a stream. Oh, it's actual stream. I'm confused. Can someone help me out? Is the DAB... Is this within their jurisdiction? I don't know if Plain Bay is within their jurisdiction. Any pole or all of the lines... It's really muddy. They talk about... It's most about buildings with the exception of substantial or significant changes to outdoor landscaping. So I expect a pole is significant. Something buried under the road I don't think is. I mean, we could argue about that. I guess all I'm trying to figure out is is this in front of us now right properly or not? I guess it depends. In other words, we're about to have... These guys have a lot to talk to each other about the DAB. I'm hearing all of this. Is this something we need to hash out because I can see point two routes. If this is before us properly now, then we should continue it because we don't have time... These guys have a lot to talk about. Or it's not before us. And there may be some interpretation that the DAB might... Maybe language that needs to be interpreted... DAB may have interpreted differently than us. There may be precedent that we're not aware of or the DAB is not aware of. So I can answer your question. So if we're going... We don't have to do any revision and they're sticking with the original permit that we issued, we don't have anything to do. If they're interested in Alfred's or we're interested in Alfred's option, then that can be explored and you would have to come back to us with a different permit amendment. And if it's on the ground, it sounds like it wouldn't be an issue with the DAB. But if it's above ground and the DAB asserts jurisdiction it has to have a warrant here meeting. And tell us... Bring somebody from the DAB and tell us what they think. And with both of Denise's branches and Mark's editions, there's nothing left for us to talk about right now. Well, the only thing I would add, I mean, to see if Alfred's idea is a good idea. Do you think Bill, with your experience, is that possible to put some kind of a quick design? I asked my colleague today people at Belco. Belco is behind this project because this is the fiber project to the town hall. This is part and parcel. We're repairing a bad line and we're putting an extra pipe for a cable fiber. So this cable doesn't happen until this happens. We're really under the gun. We want to hit the construction schedule. So I think the one thing to add to or to revise what the points you were making, Denise, you said, am I remembering or did I hear correctly that you're not okay with planning? That's what he said. After a lot of occasion. After the solar power approved the right permit WIC got a hold of me and we had a site visit. So during that site visit, I caught something that ordinarily wouldn't happen. And the fact is that the culvert is in the way of this pipe. So you put a three phase wire through there. It's going to have to be dealt with at the point when we change that call. So I think the question that that then does put a question in front of us because on August 23rd when I was not here, the board which is not in here and there but I'm just repeating back what you guys did. So on August 23rd the board approved a permit that WEC has full authority under that permit to move forward. We're here in our road commissioner now and say no, please don't. He has asked that we rescind. We rescind. That's what brings back things. There was nothing to There was nothing to rescind. I understood. I just want to be formal. I'd like to work with the road commissioner and others. So they have full authority not with standing office objections, right? That's right. They have full authority to go through with A and give them the permit. But within 45 days there's am I mixing things up but something under permits is a period where people can object or appeal or something. I think it depends on the type of permit that we have. Well, so that is a question, right? If we want to encourage or within the authority that we have under an already issued permit to say what, please go back and revisit the site with our road commissioner so that everybody's happy. We probably should take some time to make some kind of statement tonight. It sounds like what I'm hearing is that what is willing to work with the road commissioner and investigate this other option. Correct. And then would you be ready to report back to us on October 11th or be more so that we can get this on the agenda? So in any event it sounds like there will be modifications to the original plan A so therefore WEC is voluntarily not moving forward with the terms of the permit which there are permits that do want to in the permit A or plan A and so in effect we should be rescinding that we should be volunteering. It's a question of how formally we want to be we could just rescind the permit or we could simply let the minutes reflect that WEC has indicated that it will not move forward with that permit or that permit. And there will be consultations with the road commissioner and then we'll get a joint report back on that. But will be modified to permit anybody? We'll take appropriate action at any time. I would want the words good faith that in good faith based on bills representation taking action. There was one thing that was sedated to that I wanted to mention I know that you guys are under time pressure on this in slightly a year so it's this kind of thing we can go in with you know money that came last as proposed with the understanding that you come back and put you know put in if that's going to delay it further to put in some kind of a disconnect. That would be On the back of the permit application the word board as used herein is to mean the board of select in. What does it say? The board hereby reserves the right to order and change the location to order the change or the removal of any structure above conditional so it sounds like we could we could but we're not prepared. What I'm hearing and what I'm hearing and I think if everybody agrees that we want to cooperate what needs to get the work done is a new idea. Let's go back to the drawing board come back to the new proposal it might not need to go to the DAB if it's the one the original permit or the revision that you're talking about most likely would not need DAB approval so why don't we put that in the minutes and that Bill is going to work with Alfred or somebody from WAC is going to work with Alfred Rick's available he'll go on site at the time that you guys go out there and talk about it and then be prepared to get something if you need it on the 11th. We should have some kind of report because we're leaving a very open question here. So this is to work in good faith with the town agree? I think the permit stands where it stands if we come up with terms that modifies that permit Bill and I bring that to you and you can modify the permit at that point which hopefully we can do that next meeting. And the good faith part is that WAC will not proceed based on the current permit that we are not taking action to recent. And the other thing that we've said but it wasn't in the list of things that Denise mentioned is if there's a discovery that the DAB does need to be involved that meeting should be duly warned which is not up to Bill or Alfred but it's up to them to follow the process. Just to set the record straight I reached out to John McCullough initially simply to have a conversation to make sure he was aware of what we were doing knowing the precedent that John cited too earlier and make sure that everybody knew what we were doing and meeting with Alison Evans as well and Alex has been very favorably disposed of working with WAC so it's a big deal. So I have a member of the Zoom group, James Duggan that would like to speak is the board. Mr. Duggan, did you have something to say on this? I did yes thank you for acknowledging me and allowing me to participate remotely. My name is James Duggan I'm the director of preservation for Vermont State Historic Sites and I'm here for two purposes this evening one to gather some information for our organization as we have not been notified by anyone, we have not been notified by WAC or anyone associated with the town Norvelko about this project our first awareness of it were the flags in the ground recently and then found out about your agenda this evening I guess just to like multiple plans have already been looked at but again as the owners of the property on both sides of Old West Church Road not being involved in that has been a little frustrating so I just like to notify everyone that we're interested parties and we would like to be part of some of this consultation and also just on your theme of correct procedures a project of this type would warrant review by our archaeology team for project review on a number of different levels so again just stating that as an awareness as we move forward anything involving our property it's a state historic site and so excavation it's considered archaeologically sensitive and would need plan review and we haven't seen anything on this project submitted yet so So you mean from the state historic preservation is that what you said? That's correct yep I'm with the division for historic preservation and I manage the buildings and grounds for the state historic sites of which the excavation is because Kent Museum is owned by the state that is correct yeah okay but it's the property implicated here on both sides of the road owned by the state and so for example one of our historic site markers is located across from the museum proximity to where some of these lines are so we have no I don't believe we have on file any as built plans from previous projects and so that's one of the things is I'm trying to determine the location of these lines in relation to some of our assets so what do we need to do to work I guess need to do to comply with your requirements well the first thing would be to initiate consultation with us and provide us with some information I didn't want to interject earlier and disrupt your local proceedings because this is sort of it's related but but not I don't think directly impacted but I think my main message is that we should have been part of the consultation previously and as owners of the property are interested in what happens here on a number of levels and I just wanted that to be noted yeah I'm happy to work with WEC and with the design advisory board because I do believe they have jurisdiction in this area certainly for the view shed elements but we would have jurisdiction for any of the ground disturbance so we'd like to have the opportunity to review the plan prior to construction proceeding and I'm happy to work with whomever would be responsible for the parties on that is there some kind of an application that they need WEC needs to submit there is and I can deal with that offline here so it sounds like WEC needs to go back to the drawing board with regards to your process well hang on though I want to with no disrespect at all I'm not clear and I'm ignorant on how the fact that that you're that you're an owner is you're an owner with easements and conservation and other things overlaid on top of the ownership because I mean we don't what is the normal notice process for owners well maybe I mean notice process would be WEC notifying property owners such as Allison Evans and Judy Bigum and to notify the state historic preservation as an owner so if it's no more complicated than that and they weren't notified that's just a wall drop but what I'm in those mistakes happened I'm not making really pointing fingers but is it more than that is what I'm really trying to understand is there some overlay that is beyond the fact that perhaps a notice wasn't provided well that's why I asked there was some kind of permit application request form that WIC needs to the WEC right under what authority my question is where does that come from if there is if there is an application it's probably says on it no but just because you own it doesn't mean that you're entitled to extra special rights and I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what triggers a different expectation that other property owners might have I could answer that question I believe a little bit projects that require a state permit so any telecommunications or electrical projects under the Department of Public Service require that is our subject to 22VSA chapter 14 which is the Vermont State Historic Preservation Act and that is triggered by the amount of ground disturbance proposed potentially in this project and so whether it's WEC or ultimately sourced back up to from what I just heard potentially a Velco project there is a process and we've dealt with these partners before in working through that process I'm suggesting that the ground disturbance component because it is a state historic site and therefore considered potentially sensitive for archeology would trigger that process under 22VSA chapter 14 okay so I guess for clarification purposes Mr. Duggan are you saying that this is jurisdictional in terms of this triggers PUC jurisdiction or review of the project and an elaborate PUC process or some kind of minor PUC process or are you saying that there's yet another process provided under statute where if a state historic site or property is to be worked on that they have there's another process provided in statute outside of the Public Utility Commission process so I cannot speak definitively because again I have no information or specifics about this project to speak to the context or any of the parts of the scope that may trigger it the process that I'm talking about is consistent in the state regulatory process I don't know if any of these fall into that for jurisdiction but I guess I'm speaking first and foremost just again as the owner courtesy and understanding what is being on our property that's what I wanted to distinguish we have no problem with the courtesy thing that's what we like to do we notify all the neighbors we ask WEK to do that and they generally do that it might have been an error here that's one thing but for input or approval by youth folks historic preservation is required as part of some Public Utility Commission process and this is going to require either a major or minor application to be processed through the Public Utility Commission that's much more elaborate and much more time consuming I'm hoping it's not that you know of course WEK will work with you we love that property and as well I hope that's not the case and again I can't speak definitively on that perspective on whether there's jurisdiction under a project review focus but we do regularly review these types of projects and so I'm assuming that hopefully someone at WEK has researched this and made that decision or not I would suggest if it hasn't been done that that analysis is completed it's their responsibility as the developer of this project to it's not necessarily our responsibility to look out for that for example but when it's brought to us we do review those and I'm just not certain of the status of this particular project because we don't have any information so what I'm hearing then is WEK needs to go back and there must be somebody you or somebody else in your office needs to provide a courtesy call and copies of information to the State Historic Preservation Office and see if they have any issues and work with them and then based on what that would be find out from that then I'm going to go into town with your proposal because there's no point going forward with Alfred's idea and putting the work in to look at that if you haven't satisfied the Historic Preservation offices need to be involved in the process it sounds like the work that Alfred's concerned about is not on the property of Historic Preservation I think it's Janice but the work around the corner area is Historic Preservation so there's I think out of respect for the State in their role we should give WEK WEK will take the message back to WEK well I'll follow what you're going to do tomorrow that's all we need it's not Janice anymore the new owners or the permit agency he says they may be the permit agency depending on what that is that's the last issue so this is so as far as we're on hold and do you work it out with the State okay so given that should we review the permit I don't think we review for that I don't think so I think that is what they need to do and if they have an issue what has an issue then they can ask us to the State can say sorry these are independent permits well right they are in other words we granted a permit unless there's something in the State that says we can't grant the permit until this is done we can grant the permit right well that's what I was getting to earlier is what is the process well I think at this point we're done I don't think there's anything more for us to do but it sounds like WEC and the State need to work together and then the State can come back to us if there's an issue but they can probably overwrite our permit if they had to they can it's independent sometimes projects have 10 permits it's not like everybody says after you have funds unless it's written into law I guess I'm thinking of active 50 where certain permits are required before you can get an active 50 permit but the State doesn't overwrite local permits that's right so I think we're done thank you thank you thank you Jim thank you right municipal mitigation municipal mitigation grants and aid Toby I hear you're here to talk about that no it's not okay so this is I was looking at this which project is this but it's not a project it's just a municipal permit in general so it's a grant for specific sections of roadside that are impacted to the watershed so essentially if we're ditching somewhere we would ditch normally and it falls into their category of where they would like to see the work done they actually give us money and the grant this year is up to $22,000 yes so we've identified four different projects two of which we've already done and a couple more so essentially it's just free money for the work that we normally do right and this is just something that we sign annually so that we can get this money we started two years ago and we've been in the program both years this is also the one that we pay a permit fee for nope what's the one we pay a permit fee for that's just the town the whole town pays a permit fee for the municipal grant yeah I thought it was the municipal road general permit okay this has nothing to do with it okay every town in Vermont pays the MRGP right okay so this is a motion that we make our annual of the municipal mitigation grants in aid for the ensuing fiscal year is that a motion whether that's the right motion I don't know essentially that's a contract so it's just to sign the contract it's just an authorization to sign this standard grant let me say we'll probably call it up but we have to we have to agree that we want to do it right so you've already signed the letter that you wanted to be in the program so you already did that this is just the contract this is just the contract alright then we've spent too much time on it that's correct standard grant agreement alright so now we can circulate it never be signed then we can move on to the next item yeah I think we should just have a motion stating that we agree to the standard grant agreement she just made that motion I seconded it oh you did okay and now we decided we need a motion so there's a motion on the floor all right all those will be able to say aye aye it's already October oh please let's hang on to September okay good morning next up no roadside moment we'll request on what did she say Peck Hill and Pfeiffer's Ride just so we can have everybody have everything assigned okay this is Peck Hill Road and Pfeiffer's Road Pfeiffer's Ride Road Pfeiffer's Ride Road sure we get it right and this was yes that's our new thing that's what we do alright so there's been a request where is it roadside moment there it is and Charlotte Hanna sent us this email and she has checked with Michael and Megan let's go back to Toby back to me so we can get it to the right place Eric Soros and the Kathy Koshanski Howard Norman and Jane Shure and Erika Heilman have made this request and I don't know are we still roadside moment yes discussion comments can you scroll back up is this like effective immediately she doesn't say we went there to mow it they said please this happened a while back right and then we said right and I said we have to put something in writing to the selectors so for instructing me to talk to them and say that they need to address the selector appropriately and that's what they're doing now so this says this covers the entire mowable area on the north side of Pfeiffer's right and Pack Hill plus the south side down to Plateau Road we would we would approve that for this sign for anybody with signatures on that sign if that is all that's right I think that's a pretty I think that's everybody I don't know I'm not pretty much everybody on that except for question there's three houses on Plateau and this isn't do you she doesn't is it because of the base of these or is it that's what I was going to be one of my what do they verify what their reason for not mowing this they don't say when they stopped us from mowing they said it was because of mowing butterflies oh that could be you know their habitat is on that road and that we needed to save those flowers or whatever they were they actually have I have seen them this year and I haven't in 10 so I'm not against butterflies not one bit I dare you I also have a job to do right I'm going to reflect it out for like butterflies and in particular box make sure that's in the minutes because it's a true statement however there's more to it than that the only thing I wonder about is is there any reason to it's an email from Charlotte the rest of the crew doesn't seem to be copied is there Charles is not the kind of person who's going to make a representation but all these people are on board yeah and we mow is it right that the reason we mow right sheds right public safety so am I wrong I don't want to say to anybody that no we're not going to mow unless two things happen one they say why very explicitly and expressly and number two if it's appropriate and light of why that they undertake they indicate they will undertake the maintenance number three our public works director approves absent those three things we don't have a public we don't have a public but Mark we have we have we have honored we have honored similar requests the only thing is I think that we each time have heard exactly why it's either invasive species or habitat that's what's missing I think the other thing we've talked about and I is some kind of signage that says we're not no roadside mowing no roadside mowing live site limited well I know like the Peter Harvey project he puts up the signs he does go out there and do some work himself he and I walked out we went and looked at the site right in the intersections we figured out what we needed to do right so I think we need to reflect in the minutes that we need to have these folks indicate why and you know yeah John well and Mark touched on is another issue and that is and I brought this up before I don't know if it's this winter dig through the law books in a number of areas this is one I know it was law in Vermont that landowners needed to maintain their road fronts and mow which means mow and I know that because I learned that that was the impetus for passing the bottle bill in Vermont it wasn't because we're agreeing in wonderful word Bob Kinsey in particular representative Kinsey because in mowing his road frontage he'd get bottles back when they were real bottles and they'd go right through his tractor tire and cost him 500 bucks pot so he wanted a bottle the bottle bill passed for that reason back when a nickel caused people to actually go pick them up if folks don't want it mowed it's going to have to get mowed at some point or in terms of trees they don't want to mow it then they have to agree at some point that they will mow it and knock down at least a woody brush so I mean we can't have a road crew just hop scotching all over town at the end of the season in mowing stuff when we're getting ready for other projects so you know I think that needs to be part of the conversation and part of the agreement that they are going to agree then to get out their own lawn mowers and weed whackers and bush hogs and start mowing that when the butterfly season is over so we want them to take the woody brush down so we want them to come up with a plan for how they're going to be responsible for the upkeep it's got to be approved by health which is a step beyond what we require some of the other landowners to do so given the frequency that this is starting to be a business for everybody including other ones so I wonder if we should be turning to Jim Barlow and asking him to come up with some kind of a form either a policy for the town or a contract the town enters into with these landowners I hear the document because people can't see I'm getting it in the chat either take the document stop the share take it off the screen there you go so either a policy or I guess a policy or something to formalize because we've been doing this all very ad hoc and I think we're arriving at a place where we need to formalize the procedure and the expectation and exactly what is expected both in the request and in the carrying out and honoring the spirit and it's been spirit today but the actual terms now of the town's agreeing to not we've never had any terms we will or we won't historically we've had you know Peter has a sense of here's what I'm going to do here's my process I'm going to manually side or whatever I'm going to put up signs so there's been some rigor there's been other examples we don't need to name names we haven't had quite that level of rigor around some habitat requests we've honored you know it's time for us to put some consistency and predictability formality around it sounds like we need something like when somebody has a curb cover some kind of a process some kind of a form with language and also the piece about you don't want it mowed but then you have to agree to know when the season is over I don't know what you're concerned about so I think we specify time I'm sure that the butterflies are on their way to one or two right now whatever the issue is whatever the issue is the reason for them not wanting to mow it should be specified in the so-called permit as to time it if it's butterflies, first of October they're gone now we can go mow or like in the spring for wild turbo that is also gone at a certain time or it's not affected by mowing as much that should be included into this and what we can do by formalizing is say we're going to not mow because of habitat that what is your plan road folks to manage the invasives because mowing aggressively is the invasives management strategy so we're not going to mow and how are you going to manage invasives those two things don't come together well I don't know if there's invasives in this portion it doesn't matter it doesn't matter right now but I think we do have to have some kind of a formal mark and I will draft something you will? nominate it go nominate it basically it'll be a nice interaction for you but I think where I'd like to end up if it's okay is a very straightforward simple process that Althe administers initially like curb cuts in other words someone wants an exception they go to Althe checks it off and proposes something to us here it is with my conditions here's my conditions and then up or down but we have to lay it we have to lay it all out we have to have some kind of but it has to be some kind of a process like that approval by the board a site that Althe has visited and I want to see does the board have any more comments because Toby wanted to make it I'll do one more thing Althe and I would be interested in hearing what you say about this and we would try to work with them if we can if it's reasonable there's a certain time there's a certain window if the town could accommodate moving the schedule for that road and that's fine otherwise they would be they would be their responsibility we won't the subcommittee your subcommittee takes that under advice I don't think you guys we'll plug you a draft so I think we should make a decision I've always these guys are asking this is a very short window you guys would be blowing one more time that road hasn't been mowed at all so I would like to mow it and they are specifically asking us not to mow it which would be only one more time they're asking us not to mow it now right and moving forward well right it seems like they want us to start mowing we need to have that in I think we could say we won't mow it again this year right and then by next year we'll have this new process for everybody for everybody that has to come back yeah but that particular road there's a brush growing right in so is this request for a brush also or is it just for the flowers that the butterflies like it says roadside mowing I would propose that we tell them that they have to come in that we're going to do a process but at the moment we're not going to act until someone of them come in and tell us why and how long and that that's no damage to them because right now there's no mowing going on well no no no so what I heard Alfred say is that they haven't mowed there all year and so things are starting to come in so I think but he can mow in three weeks no they're asking not no we're not going to do it we don't give them what they want but what I'm saying is not giving them what they want if they really are worried about butterflies well nothing's going to happen for two weeks Alfie can just wait a little while or we can say we can say the town will not mow granted on the condition that the neighbors take independent responsibility for managing brush and I think that's going to that won't happen I was going to say I don't think we should at this point put that out I mean that should be part of the new process but I think right now that's not how we agree or we don't agree if we don't agree that unfortunately the first time we haven't agreed and that's what I'm thinking you know they're asking that the road will never be mowed never be mowed as long as we reside there I did not read this till just now that is what they're asking we've never said no to a request like this this is a never but we've never said no to a please don't mow because of your bases I want to do it my own way please don't mow because of habitat well to be clear I'm part of that don't mow because I don't have invasives on my road except in a couple spots so I manage them and I mow it I mow it every year or twice the summer and you know that was the quid pro quo I thought that was what the responsible thing to do was and I would have done it whether I was on this board but they're not offering to keep the road in shape and this is the problem I have in this and I don't think we should make a decision on this till they come in here and have a chat with us and I think if the door is open we may be mowing it this fall we have to have a conversation with them so then I think I need to understand so then we need to ask we need to put in minutes that we're not approving our request at this time and that we are going to invite them to our next select board meeting to explain this to us for 15 minutes I mean I want to say something in writing so that we have a chance to digest it and we don't spend 45 minutes on this fairly this is a fairly clear issue and then the October 11th if we have time on October 11th I mean that would give you a reason well that's the hard part that would be specifically we want to hear from the reason for number two what the plan is officially what their plan is to keep clear and safe and if we put a finer point on this there's the ground level mowing which is the invasions issue and the butterfly issue then there's the trees so Alfred and his crew didn't mow in front of my house and then they knocked on my door and said we need to cut those trees back and I said go for it and that's different and it wasn't across the board it was in a rope and I understand this to mean don't touch anything no we need to more than we want to go the other way and just say fine for two more weeks until the butterflies fly south and then on October 15th we are authorizing Alfred after that to mow and then we don't have to spend 15 then we don't have to spend anything I like that idea it's valid through October 15th or 30th but does that the same for next year? no no no and then we can put in them and it's only and that'll give us time to come up with a policy that'll give us time to come up with a policy to make this crazy so that everybody is following the same process everybody's treated equally so I make the motion that we approve we approve the request with the but not as presented to us which is forever and ever we approve the request through October 15th 2021 2021 only after which time the select board is is asking Alfred to do mowing because it needs to happen and part number one of the motion part number two of the motion is that in 2022 everybody who's had this arrangement has to come back and make a new request under a framework that the select board will have developed and put in place by April 1, 2022 or I knew a process a process not just a framework with process framework, process, all of that okay all right Toby wanted to speak very patient so I think requiring people who ask not to have the town mow their roadsides need to be encumbered to make it happen and it's not oh well after September 1st you can come along anytime you want scheduling mowing for your particular lawn to this town road crew is just unmanageable it takes us a whole month if we're lucky with weather and not break downs on the machine to actually mow just one time around the entire time so essentially your process has got to be and hold them to it and there may be a fine that if they don't get it done and we report them to the select board there should be some kind of a penalty because if it doesn't get done then it becomes a liability to the town for the next year we should definitely have yep, Katie can you could you get everything Toby said because that was really important well you guys can mow all of that I know it's becoming like wieldy and I told you you're your point the other thing to understand is that there may not be a line of sight issue in some places but there may be hazards in the grass that they can't see now road design requires us to have a full traveled lane and a shoulder and a shoulder needs to be a place where people can pull off in an emergency or to make other people pass but if grass has grown up in a ditch people are going to see the grass and think it's a flat surface and they're going to have a hazard so I think it's a safety issue that we require those in newly mowed they have to be mowed to become a risk I think everybody agrees with what you're saying Toby we've got a plan in place there's a motion on the table all those in favor please say aye can the board please formally authorize me and Mark to work on a and you'll come back to the ground and you'll come back to the ground you don't have to just order us to do it and you'll come back to us with a draft after after I'll tell Rick for teeth Katie has a question who's taking the motion please Rick there's no motion no there is a pending motion wait the original motion that to approve it through 15 I thought I seconded it okay thank you and we didn't move it because we allowed Toby to speak and we didn't we didn't we didn't it was held until Toby got done and then she said all those in favor say aye I didn't you were your I okay so we really need to wrap things up because we are already 25 minutes behind schedule we have local hazard mitigation stuff to do so with that we will move on to local hazard mitigation Grace are you there other she is I'm here and Nick's in the audience Nick oh great if you have a certificate adoption in front of you you need to sign that in the town clerk and then I believe you would probably make a motion to sign certificate and adopt I think I printed that off Grace yes would you like a motion on four minutes I'm sure so moved I'll second so the motion is to approve the certificate of adoption this is on the day 2020 yeah I've heard I just write that in there alright there's a motion and a second any further discussion all those in favor please say aye okay is that all we need to do for this one Grace I think you need to carry it good and then you'll send the signed adoption certificate to me I'll put it into the plan send it back to VEM and then they'll formally approve the plan okay and then the next thing that's that's it for that one right the next step is is the chicken is the chicken coop the chickens sorry okay so I wanted to give literally a five minute overview of operations I shortened the power point I made to be really short so if someone could give me permission to share my screen I have a power point if not I can just go through it without permission okay cool thank you do you have it yes something to do okay go back there we go can everybody see this yep okay so I just wanted to go over what exactly is the continuity of operations plan what's in the plan and then next steps are abbreviated and we can just meet in the future as needed because I know you have a packed agenda tonight very briefly continuity of operations this came up for a lot of towns and businesses at the beginning of COVID trying to figure out when something like COVID happens what needs to get done day to day no matter what's going on what can wait, what isn't time sensitive what is really essential what is really a continuity of operations plan is a document that goes through and you do this process of thinking about what are those essential functions that the town on a day to day basis or a weekly or monthly basis needs to get done so that could be road maintenance if it's the winter that could be paying town bills or collecting dues or anything like that so what kind of did by the seat of our pants exactly yes so that's right so you know obviously the towns had to do continuity of operations but they didn't necessarily document it so a coop is really useful because God forbid if something ever similar to COVID happens let's hope it doesn't there will be some kind of document that will provide some kind of orientation for maybe new town staff or people who just don't quite remember what needs to get done it'll all be written up so that's what a coop is really good for so basically the whole basis of the plan is what are those mission essential functions and you can see the definition on this screen so that's you know anything if you didn't do it it would affect safety health welfare of the public so this screen has a lot of text so if you're just filing down what's in a coop you'll see in these columns under the section heading these are the different sections of the coop there's like nine of them and then the column on the right shows what's in each section and then there's a little picture of what a coop looks like on the right-hand side so I'll just go through these super briefly I will say that I already started kind of writing information for Palace just like I did for Plainfield and I can do it for any community that needs it so I looked at your local emergency management plan I looked at your LHMP I looked at the town plan and other stuff like that to try to figure out what some of those mission essential functions might be what kind of hazards could hit the town what are your town facilities etc so super briefly like I said the basis of a coop is what are the functions that must be performed and then the rest of the plan talks about who does those functions what facilities are needed to do those functions like a town office or something like that or a garage for the road crew and then what would happen if the facilities that you need were unavailable is there anywhere else in the town you could go are there any neighboring communities that have facilities you could use stuff like that and then it talks about what are your vital records and equipment so that's really useful for if there's a flood or something in your coop you'll have a list of everything you need to kind of get back up and get started and do those mission essential functions go ahead are you going to talk about because I know when we had COVID we came up with a plan and a way for anybody on staff to work remotely except for the road crew so that's probably going to be something you're going to try to have people have a remote action plan or something that would definitely be something that should go in here so for example in this activation section in the event of community spread or an outbreak town staff should transition to working remotely and here's how that will happen so you can have all that information written up so you can go to it when you need to do that process so it talks about in whatever emergency the town could have to deal with what happens who kind of activates the process that this plan writes out who's notified select board chair, EMD road commissioner, stuff like that delegations of authority so just like in your LEMP where it says how much money can the town spend without select board approval or something like that there's a similar thing in the COOP and then it talks about reconstitution so how do you determine if there's a flood how do you determine that the town office is okay to go back into does anybody have to do an inspection to make sure the facility is okay to go back into and okay to work in stuff like that so that's a super brief overview of what is in a COOP like I said I've started writing this stuff in and the next steps would be I know your agendas are packed for the next couple meetings but I would suggest some kind of meeting it doesn't need to be during a select board meeting some kind of meeting with those with like the decision makers you know select board members road commissioner, EMD town clerk people like that who would be involved in dealing with these kinds of emergencies getting those people together in a virtual room just to like take you know an hour or less to go through what I just went through and kind of fill in the gaps of the information that I don't have. I think you've given a lot of information about what we did back when COVID hit and we were trying to decide what to do we made we did come up with very you know plans and things like that so you could actually probably go back through our minutes yeah that's a good idea okay we already did so we don't have to reinvent the wheel yeah not work Grace I just have one suggestion or question first of all is when this plan is done what physical form is it going to take so I would say electronic and paper would be the two forms I would suggest but I would strongly suggest is that you create quite red binders and that every member of the select board of the town clerk etc have them and take them home I was in San Francisco when they lost the earthquake emergency plan you know it's just it's so typical that when the real emergency happens there's no electronic communication no one can find the damn thing so it would be good if something like that something in hard copy that happened under Irene A&R didn't update their plans and the new secretary Michelle didn't even know about it or know where they were despite being urged to do that and then of course they were the building that got flooded so well not just the select board but the clerk and all kind of should be all over the place and people should take them home some of them should be taken home yeah good idea alright thanks Grace yeah thank you thank you all thanks for being here after you know I go back for the minutes and fill in the information that I can alright thank you so much thanks for waiting do we have to sign something no we're all set with that alright now I need to go we need to unshare is she unshared Katie yeah is Grace unshared okay so next up oh that's okay that's the one that you just had there alright there really isn't Denise I'm just gonna just confuse sign certificate of adoption we already did that man there was a motion and we already did that okay did you sign on behalf of the board yes what's next that's the hazard mitigation plan if anybody wants to go back and schedule the site wait a minute I want to stop us on the East Calis named Denise you took the trouble I appreciate of adding other names why on this one did we skip that step because I didn't make it but you didn't make the other one either but you added it I put it on letterhead for you after I have to put it on letterhead myself completely capable I'm sorry I didn't see your email until after I had already done it well so in the future again I'm just gonna restate that whether you make it or you don't we should all sign it first and we can all sign things we need to make that clear emotion we didn't that's our obligation to decide to sign we just signed something that had only one wait we added one signature wait she signed it but then we all signed it correct but on that one we did but on this one we didn't which one I mean I don't care everybody can sign it but a lot of things come through from various agencies looking for one signature that's their document well so alright town hall town highway 7 so we have to thanks to John's help we have information on who the property owners are that enjoying town highway 7 some information which I appreciate the lumberjack people right so we have to go through the process so I want to know from the board what is better a weekend or a weekend to do a site visit so we can get this done later again the more it's gonna it's already good we're doing the one tomorrow at 5 it's dark by 6 30 and I was reading the process we do not have to walk the entire length of this town highway I can send you the documents I've been reading up on the process so I just want to know if we set something it doesn't have to be everybody doesn't have to go it's later in the afternoon or the weekend and we probably want to do it before you're hunting right weekends are generally better for me generally I won't do it early I don't want to kill my Saturday too many afternoons I'm not coming early inside that morning's great alright good to know that's all I wanted to know Deer season starts October first weekend in October I thought deer season started like November 13th there's all the different pieces of what you won't hear the arrow come I guess not that's a good thing a crossbow is allowed in archery season yes they are they are are you sure I thought you were bad news alright so we'll see what we can alright that was it in highway 7 town hall use and requests we have gotten a couple requests from the old west church folks who say you know it's cold in the old west church right now and they would like to use the bottom half of the town hall for I think if this is in the right order oh no it's not let me go back sorry oh I know she's gone to sent this to us and it didn't make it to the folder but it was an e-mail it was an e-mail and I forwarded it and everybody got it so she would like to use the bottom half of the town hall to hold their old west church main because they don't have heat there and she's asking permission to do so currently the historical society uses the space for meetings because there are files I'm here which we plan for and probably you know let's say they make a corner community center folks say their furnace went on the fritz and they need to want it to meet they are sort of a town they're a town non-profit group there was another one too I think we should do this one and then do that one so I guess I wanted to have hear what the board thinks so my question is are we getting this request instead of the friends because we haven't authorized we have not the slideboard is not open with the building well I think it's a little gray I mean when we were talking with the friends about upstairs the management agreement was only for the upstairs piece unless they had an event and they needed to use part of the downstairs that could be granted through the friends group so this is more like I said historical society for their meetings I don't know if there's other non-profits in town like maybe the east calis fire district we need to do this we can't amount to using the town office I don't yeah well that's the thing I'm clear I don't have a problem with it but I don't want to be doing 1D2D we need a policy that says everybody can use it within one of our parameters we want to put and what are the parameters we want so we are not dealing with 1D2D requests is this something we're in the town clerk or the town somebody can we used to do a COVID kit then and then also some people use this building left messes behind and so that the messes further highlight COVID irresponsibility kind of got our staff very upset I don't know if the town office staff wants to be responsible for scheduling meetings here overseeing them coming in afterwards and checking to make sure that they didn't leave a mess so what do we do maybe we do let the friends do it I think if it's I mean I think what I'm looking for is there is there a distinction between groups like old west church historical society maybe east calis fire district board appointed committees DAB historical reservation do you see any reason to make a distinction between those if not then the town office staff can put on the calendar is being used by old west church group on such and such a day I think the only distinction I'd make is that there's a conflict on a particular date time that town functionary gets priority but other than that I think this thing is a public resource we always intended it to be did we already say that town anybody who has to comply with the open meeting law can use we've already said that because in an old west church but you said town appointed town appointed committees but not they're not right we got a distinction I'm making a distinction so Denise you said town appointed committees but I don't think you mentioned because we've already covered them in open meeting they have to be here so we've already decided on them so now we're deciding on community oriented nonprofits right if the town hall isn't being used do we have any problem with other groups using the space I don't have a problem with it but I do have a concern about we can say community oriented nonprofits and then we're going to be wondering what that means sorry to be thinking like a lawyer and then also who's going to manage it my big thing is that who's going to manage it it isn't fair to ask the town office staff to manage something related to a town board committee or a mission I think we're unprepared for this I mean I'm going to test that I could be talked about there but I feel it's our our hearts are there but we're unprepared we're not ready we don't have formal policy community oriented nonprofits it's kind of very open we don't have somebody to manage it we don't have a work's director that might all come into so it might be and the email we saw was it's a community well Old West Church is a community oriented nonprofit but it's not a town building it was 10 people right 10 people couldn't well I don't know what to say I think we're I think I'm just testing this concept that we're not really ready to implement a policy short of 1D2Z one request at a time and that's the problem is we have been being asked 1D2Zs and so far we've said no I don't know why I gotta say I don't know why we're hyper managing this place to me the only thing is when COVID's peaking in their COVID requirements there's something that we should have kicking in that's very different but today with people not wearing masks none of us are wearing masks I don't think we're gonna wipe the tables down tonight but we do care about messes being left behind I think we just make it available I think if one Cal's resident wants to come here and study for their law exams and this is the best place to do it I think we let them use it if no one's using it the only problem I see is we used to have earning power used to be like the building manager so we have Andy if you can do it schedule this and if you can't do it then we have to find someone else to do that and a lot of us it should either be on a calendar or not and who cares and I also say I think we should have a policy that if anyone leaves a mess we have to hire someone to come in we're not gonna have our office staff do it we hire someone to come in we understand that when they walk in that door or when a name gets on that calendar that requires somebody to need a policy and that's what we wanted the friends to do well we just tell them we just tell them that but then John somebody's gotta come in so that we know who to blame the mess on right no I don't we need that matter give it to the friends let them manage it but yeah but this is that we have to decide we have to decide we have to decide tonight to approve the request with maybe some loose conditions or to say no because we don't have to have we still need more time on our person let's approve the request but let's agree that we have to put together a policy and delegate one person on this board to do it and come back to it I think it's a one person job can we put a time limit on how on our to keep ourselves you know maybe we try it for 90 days without a policy or with a policy well if we're going to approve all of us church group we're going to have another thing that we have to process we should try to bring the policy back but not have you know going on and on and on 90 days um that we will allow community community not community oriented non-profits community members and we're talking about just today on the stairs yes well because other than the request is different that's right because so we should deal with them one at a time but because we haven't authorized the friends to open up the upstairs either so I think we're talking about 90 days so October 1 so by January 1 by this Sunset what we're putting in place Sunset's January 1 for the downstairs space Sunset's January 1 by which time we will either renew this discussion for another day so this is a 90 day trial this is a 90 day trial period yep in other words by January 1 um for use of this space see how it's already okay hold on Katie turn your mic on I think they got disconnected we got disconnected awesome Katie turn your mic on we need to go back Katie you need to go back it's getting recorded Jack it was disconnected well but you got it right I'm trying to reconnect this okay so do we need a motion or do we just need to at the moment don't we have to approve these two we're doing one at a time so I think John that with the Jities logs back in she'll also be a host okay and that will kind of get us going again I'm trying to connect Katie I can't get it to connect we definitely need a motion for our whatever we're doing for the next 90 days yeah you want to make that sound John this works thank you you make it you community members 90 days what else do we want to say don't leave a message we'll make you pay the bill we don't have anybody to police it I move that the select board approve an interim policy which would allow for the use of the town hall downstairs area for up tonight this policy would be in effect for up to 90 days to allow members of the community upon request to use the hall they would also be responsible for the cost of cleanup if they leave a mess behind and we will invoice them for that including you can't leave stuff in the trash including they're needing to clean out the waste baskets old dishes need to be washed the sink needs to be washed out bathrooms need to be cleaned bathrooms need to be cleaned and the building needs to be in the condition that they got it in and we're going to ask Andy to oversee this function I don't know that's a big add on without him present so then who's going to do that exactly who's going to calendar maybe we can find someone a volunteer from among the friends group to volunteer to do the calendar we can check and see who might be available so that's not part of the motion right it's a clarification and the policy the policy that John is included in John's motion exists only in our minutes because we don't have a written policy unwritten but clearly articulated policy that's the long about way of saying I need a second can I interrupt this is Barbara nobody on the friends has access to the website calendar to do the scheduling so we would have to who has the ability to Katie Katie could they could decide on a person notify the town office and Katie and Katie could grant them that one person access or Katie doesn't work at the town office they could notify Katie so Barbara is your point that only you have to be physically in the town office to change the permissions on the calendar no she's clarifying what I said it would notify the town office oh I see I see so you have a second do we have Mark a second is there anything else we need to say about it well I wonder Katie can schedule things from home on to the calendar one more thing on her plate unless she's okay with that that if somebody no Katie would just be granting a permission if she has to control with that and then that person would be not Katie I guess it could be Katie or Cliff to give one of the webmasters why don't we say yeah it's a granting permission that sounds like a 10-minute job yeah right we are just to be clear we are not asking Katie to manage the calendar it's a one-time 10-minute job to grant permission for somebody else to manage the calendar who is a volunteer good with that good moves John this happens every meeting is there anything else we need to say about this I don't think you got January 1 and the select board does not need to pick the person they can decide from among their group who is willing to do the job to calendar the schedule the scheduled events and Katie or Cliff would grant them the special permission to access the calendar great to vote on this all those in favor please say aye aye now the next one is the request to do filming and the reasoning this is different this is the upstairs this is not even a town it's not even it's not like the old west church or maple corner community center people or east calis fire district people it's not any of those things this is a private function and I guess you can still see again we approve the use of the downstairs for all community members this is upstairs so so we're not letting them open it well we're working on a management agreement and we ran some issues then covid hit they've been beaten to pavement looking for somebody to ensure the use of that space upstairs and they've been trying and trying and trying and haven't been able to point anybody so that's the we didn't approve anything yet we haven't approved it yet when am I remembering I guess I'd have to go back and look I don't think so I think there were some issues that we wanted them to work on it's been quite a while I really feel like we did somebody correct you because remember because it included our thing maybe that's not the management agreement is that something different there's two things there's a management agreement then there's a policy for the use I don't think we may have done the policy but I don't think we did the management agreement okay so we have to decide on whether or not we're going to approve this request for filming and you'll remember since COVID sort of let up and even before COVID let up we've had a lot of requests to use that space upstairs we have consistently said no because we haven't we don't have these agreements in place and so I guess I feel like if you let one person do it then you have to let everybody do it and if we let somebody do this now then what grounds do we have to stand on to not have something we want to hold some kind of an event up there a music event or a play everybody's dying to use the space upstairs and I think I want to see it get used but we don't have I don't think we have the pieces in place and that's why I think this is different than this and to be clear passive we're not sure why the events upstairs I think so I know that they've been looking to get insurance and it's really difficult we checked in with passive and they wouldn't cover that even though it's a town building it's not town use I know but it's a town building so it's about the town being sued right not about their being sued but if passive will cover good it's a town building who cares well I think we care about the insurance issue than any private event exposes us to that insurance issue if there weren't an insurance issue then we would have if there weren't an insurance barrier we wouldn't have an insurance barrier but I don't know what's the insurance it might be I'm forgetting I don't remember I don't know what the barrier was we'd have to go back and look at the minutes did we assume there was one this is Barbara yes Barbara Cliff has informed us that the first place he went was to VLCT they do the town insurers the town hall for municipal activities they will not insure non-municipal activities well hang on well hang on then though so the request for upstairs is a clear non-municipal activity but so is the old west church but there yeah things upstairs are not like a meeting these are meetings these are in my mind events right but so the difference in our risk exposure is the riskiness of the event is that what you're saying the meeting everybody sits on their butts and nobody is doing you know there's nothing you know what I do need to invite the passive rep in here by Zoom or otherwise because I don't like this seat of the pants stuff I mean they could say we're covering town events or non-town events or town events and then we do a town event and like we had with the crane roll over and they're like oh we don't cover that one well so we need to know what the extent of the coverage is right but if it's true so we need to acknowledge if what we you know rely on the information Barbara just provided to us if our passive coverage currently in place covers the building municipal events then what we've just authorized takes us outside of that coverage but we don't know well because that's it's cliff saying to Barb right well Barb West church we need if anybody falls or if that town hall is damaged it's not covered right Barb what I'm suggesting I'm doubting Cliff said that what I'm doubting is the fine points of that I'd like to see the language the exclusion language that's in our policy it would be our current policy the extent of coverage of our current policy and the exclusion from that policy so if we can have someone from the passive come in and direct us to that language or email us the excerpt that says where and why we're not covered but Cliff telling Barbara or telling Donna who tells Barbara who tells us or even Cliff telling us I don't have it firsthand for the person who's the expert on that and I don't know what the exact language is what the parameters are yeah that's what I'm suggesting I agree with that but even even if we don't have the fine details the best information we have is that we do not have insurance coverage for certain kinds of events that ten minutes ago we authorized to occur in this building and if something happens then we knew or should have known that we were not covered for those events you know what I'm willing to take the risk to have a meeting of the OS Church Association I just can't I'm a bureaucrat I'm a bureaucrat by training and I'm not going to go down that radical to be so particular that we can't allow anyone to walk in this building then will people park outside when you've allowed them access to life I'm not pissing on you Sharon I could have said the same thing last meeting and I would be pissing on myself right now because we tell people come use our public services what if they go in that parking lot and they go outside they threw a cigarette out the window and went to pick it up and they trip and fall and sue us I mean where does this end I'm not taking it personally not at all but it is a fact we have just agreed to a policy an unwritten but clearly articulated policy that has some risk associated with it what is coverage for it well and right now based on the kind of bring up old baggage we got sued for a crane rollover and the cost of resurrecting that crane from the ditch because there was an instruction given by East Montpelier fire department to hire a very expensive crane to pull that out and passive said we're not covering you so to this day East Montpelier fire department working on our collective behalf any instruction they give any day in Calis we can be sued for any instruction they'll be saying move that emergency hose over there and someone moves and trips and they sue the town of Calis you know because they're our proxy we're back in the same boat and we continue to have fire coverage fire department there's certain levels of risk we take and it's just the way it is I'm not an attorney you can't doubt it bring this back you know it sounds to me like as to these two the first one yes the second one no that's what I'm hearing well that's just me being loud are we yes I think she'll live with that she's just pointing out a problem the second one no because it's upstairs and an agreement that for the moment that somebody I don't know who's going to do it is going to look into this Denise is going to look into this and try to put together a policy that works for the building and part of that clarity on what our insurance covers and what doesn't and the talk to old wet to talk to the associate that was called and their attempts because it seems to me that insurance is going to end up being a big deal about the use of this building generally and we really don't know what to think yet what I'm hearing is that we should get passive in here to talk to us directly instead of a second or third it may well be yeah I mean you can call Frank and just kind of right Frank what's his name Fred passive I mean I guess I'd like to get him in here to talk to the board sooner rather than later because we've given ourselves nine days so okay I think we're clear so yes to the Old West Church Association that's okay yes to Old West Church under the guys under what we later right because we don't know what we think yet but yeah Katie can we make sure that our minutes say that we are going to hear from passive sooner rather than later because if that 90 if that 90 day window closes and we haven't heard them I mean I'm thinking that they'll be hearing the next meeting or the meeting after I don't want to let this sit sit and people like that really want to use both spaces I'm really worried and I want to make sure everybody be able to use those spaces and I'm really worried that there's going to be problems let's find out so let's get to the bottom of it alright so we are saying do we need to see any say any more formal no than we have we don't have a policy and we're not prepared for the we need further investigation on insurance on private use of the upstairs space right and that's system what we've been telling people for the last six months that have asked to use it right and we make an exception from one okay let's move on okay so we do we do have a recommendation from the planning commission to appoint a new zoning administrator Bob martin has stayed on reviewing applications and doing yada yada yada and he said he would do that until we appointed somebody else so I don't know would like to go into the executive session to discuss this as a personnel issue I think that's a good idea is there anything else we need to do not right now open session I mean it's already so it's already two issues we are going to do two after nine why don't we go into executive session two different issues yes one is contracts and one is personnel some move that we go into the executive session pursuant to section 313 to cover personnel this is the section under that right it's all section it's all 313 all 313 this means to identify which ones alright thank you Katie I don't know