 Alright guys okay we are live okay if you can hear my voice please let me know what did you have for dinner alright because we kind of wait past the dinner time I hope you guys had dinner or if you haven't had your dinner maybe you can enjoy dinner while yeah learning from this very very interesting insights and interview that we are going to do it later alright very soon that I'm going to invite a very special guest to come out okay where he can actually share with us exactly how he actually use options to accelerate his return he actually went to a very interesting journey and definitely there are a lot investment lessons for us to learn from alright wow what do you guys have okay conwa had burger okay what's lot lot like a lot lot I don't know what's lot lot okay James had hi James good to see you all right so I can see that all of you are able to hear my voice okay let me know what do you have a dinner I had a very good meal because tomorrow is national day for Singapore so today we had a we have to have a very good meal then tomorrow we continue to face oh oh this had carbonara okay I miss I miss carbonara from from Italy it's so good Maggie me hi Kevin good to see you hi everybody now without further ado let's introduce our official guest to come out today and he is none other than the safe investor hi safety master hi Chloe hi everyone okay I make sure I think my sound has no problem right if you can hear me type H in the chat okay type H in the chat if you can hear me okay we even have a we even have an audience from from Ireland Sarah it's good to see you good to see every single one of you now I believe like right now all of us are like pretty pretty curious because can he actually started investing maybe later can't share about the when do you start investing and like like his journey definitely started with a smaller portfolio because you can see that he's relatively young but then over time he used the powerful options to compound to right now more than a six figure portfolio but definitely this isn't not an overnight success there's like a true years of building his portfolio as well and using options to accelerate his return and one thing I think he's pretty good at is he actually has able to catch the bottom multiple times is that right can yes correct so if you have attended all of my I think most of you are from all my courses you will know how all my teachers options in technical analysis actually got the idea from the all my course yeah I see okay okay so how many of you are excited to learn can secret how he catch a bottom as well if you're excited type E in the chat all right so later on I will also get him to share exactly how he does it and how you can do it too especially if you have learned from OMI then you will definitely know what exactly is he saying later right but before that I would just want to really just get this ball rolling in terms of like exactly how his investment journey gets started like maybe you can share with us can like how when did you get started investing and what inspire you to stop back then okay okay all right so here's my story this true story and I hope this will inspire some of you so actually I started investing right after college and the first thing that I touched was forex trading for those who don't know what forex trading is about it's basically a tool with leverage and you can actually use that leverage to make a lot of money or at the same time you can lose a lot of money so at that time I was actually doing customer service in a forex trading company so the first thing that I learned with actually technical analysis I didn't learn any valuations I didn't learn any mindset skills I didn't read anything about Warren Buffett or options or anything crypto whatever the only thing that I looked at the first thing I started was technical analysis right I was looking at the charts day and night I was trying to catch the bottom I was also trying to catch the top and the I mean I didn't make some money but then after one or two years if you made one mistake if you want made one mistake on forex trading for example if you forget your stop loss if you get too greedy you actually lose a lot of money because forex trading is like the analogy is like you bring let's say you go to the casino you bring in $1,000 right and then for each table when you go play in the casino you put down a hundred dollars to bet but with forex trading if done if done incorrectly if done without stop losses or wrongly you can with that $100 you can lose $1,000 okay if you don't know how to do it correctly so at that time I didn't have a mentor to guide me so I did that for a few years and then in the end I gave up because I feel like there's just too much time there's you have to spend a lot a lot of effort on guessing a trend looking at charts setting your stop losses to setting your your take profit so I think maybe some of you have had this kind of experience maybe we can also ask the audience how many of you actually have double in forex before and then you actually didn't have a good experience maybe you can tie a me in the chat and actually this is exactly what I heard from some of my other friends as well who actually used to do all forex and like what you said like he can be winning all the time and then just one single mistake wipe up all the profits in fact incurred more losses and that actually make him stop eventually oh wow we have one person have this okay author so have a nightmare so that's why you kind of understand that forex is not for you is it then that's when you started to learn investing like stocks options yeah so so I was very lucky I had a trainer so he was a friend of a friend I had a trainer he said hey you know like he said you know you're spending so much time at forex trading and then you actually didn't even make money at all and then there was another story so actually why I wanted to make money was because I went to Australia and then I really like this girl I was trying to confess to her blah blah blah and then she actually says something along the lines oh because you know you're too young you just graduated from university and you had no money but he she didn't say that straight out but she's like she implied it she's implied I you're too young just got started whatever so I knew what that meant right so then at that time I knew that I couldn't just always spend time on working I had to find another way to make money so so that's why I like I did force for for a few years but then eventually I just gave up so but then I met my mentor and he actually taught me the basics of investing which is always finding always finding value appreciation and either you only look for two things which is value appreciation or cash flow if you think about any investing in the world out there if it's not value it's not like value seeking or value appreciation it's probably more like trading so so that's the very very important concept that he actually taught me so I know some of your crypto traders of it even myself right now I'm trading crypto but then actually there's another true story so like I'm a few weeks ago there was a crypto a few months ago there was actually crypto crash and then I really really touched crypto so that's how I kind of avoided that huge crash I've never touched the fear in Bitcoin when it was high so I thought like you know I'm doing value investing on crypto I want to do value seeking I want to find what's the most valuable coin and buy it when the sheep and wait for it to go back up but then I found out that after like right now there it's a bull run the cryptocurrency right now but then I found that actually I got out but then I don't know I made money right made money but then actually I don't know if the if the crypto is gonna go up more or it's gonna go sideways or it's gonna go down it's it's not like the stock market so this this week keeps on reminding me like my mentor keeps on saying hey you know you have to look for value appreciation value appreciation value appreciation there if you don't have value appreciation he told me not to touch it you know so so that's like that is one of the most important lessons I learned from my mentor alright while while later we ask him what does he mean by value appreciation maybe the audience here can also make a guess no to you what does value appreciation actually mean and and then we can also get can to share his insights and what he learned from his mentor what do what does he mean by value appreciation and how does it help him to improve his investment results as well and another another thing is if you are if you are like like another reason why you should get started investing that's the power of love so you can see that because of love he he decided to started get started investing alright so while waiting for people to explain what do they mean by value appreciation maybe you can explain to us a little bit what do you mean by that okay so yeah so the thing about if you if you some of you are ready so some of you maybe already in my course or whatever so if you think about any investing in the world stocks real estate crypto gold bonds what else like cars antique paintings whatever NFTs metaverse the the thing about investing is is actually you're buying quality assets can be anything be a house or car whatever and you're waiting and this is the core concept of value investing you're waiting for valuable things to drop to a fair price or very very cheap price and you're buying it right there so this is the power of our investing once you learn this you can actually invest in anything now what I mean by value appreciation is that you need to see what contributes value to your your asset why are people using Apple phones why are people using Tesla cars why are people using Bitcoin or Ethereum or why are people buying this this property right here what can this property do why will people why are people willing to pay more money to buy the property so that's value appreciation and this is the hardest thing to look into even even if let's say you look at Alibaba before the Alibaba crash right you do see the EPS growth you do see the revenue increase the cash for everything was going up but then right now after like recently I think one or two years you actually do kind of see the EPS or the revenue decrease so then the real question is is that value depreciation or is that value appreciation so so that is the hardest thing that's the hardest thing but once you get it you get it for example like if you look at Ethereum you look at S&P 500 you know that it's going to go back up and that's how you know that that's how I use my strategy around that I see so so you guys can see that as an investor we need to constantly be really be very you know tuning to things happening around us right like be very sensitive and be actually very curious about what makes a company great so can everybody type curious in the chat I think it's like as an investor you cannot just invest and you forget right you really have to be constantly curious constantly stay up to date in terms of what's happening around you observe what are people doing right what are you doing why are you using so that you can constantly see is any value in holding onto a business or even buying some more right so maybe can you can share with us a little bit in terms of like just now you say like this is one of the most difficult thing in terms of understanding value appreciation so apart from that like what kind of experience or like what kind of difficulties do you face especially doing your initial few years of investing or even right now so the thing about value appreciation why it's so hard is because if you've been investing for a while you will see a lot of different companies they were good but then they go down then they'll go they go bust look think about Nokia Yahoo Nike so fine what's the other one codec they're there they were great they were famous and look at also IBM also Intel right now even even if you look at Intel right now it's under valued it's 100% undervalued but the thing is about like if they're not growing that much but I mean they they pay good dividends so that's the second part which is a cash flow but it's all about that actually one of the difficulties actually I actually bought Baba Ali Baba and I sold it like I actually sold it because I I saw the value appreciation in Baba and then I know that China was getting stronger and stronger I even bought Tencent before I know China was getting stronger and stronger but I remember they was like that one time because I'm from Taiwan and my mom asked me hey you know like I never used Baba before but I've always been using US products and I thought about that for a very very long time and I was like yeah hey mom like you're right because everything we use quality stuff not like the cheap stuff real quality stuff the stuff that we're willing to pay more money to are all from the US so so that was a time when I decided to trade off my Ali Baba for other US companies and that was a hard decision because you look at all the financial reports statements everything was still good but the stock price was just down and you think long term where will Ali Baba be in the next five or ten years with Jack Ma gone and I don't know so I'm not saying that I won't go up it's answers it's just that I don't know so when you don't know right according Warren Buffett or Charlie Munger just don't buy it buy something else that you know so so so I think like investing or buying into your stock even including crypto you always constantly asking yourself where will this thing go in the future will more people use a look at ripple look at Cardano look at other whatever stocks that were famous before arc fund right now our fun to the bottom zoom shot up came all the way down to the bottom so it's always about that when we're investing what we're really constantly thinking about the future what's gonna happen to this company do you have enough knowledge to understand the company so this is the real difficult part then just reading a financial financial reports hmm so like how like what you say right like it's not something that's so easy not apart from just reading financial reports right so what do you do all like so that you can have a better sense of what kind of companies that doesn't have a future what alright very good question so let's say you know like it really depends on what your your what you want so for example I had a conversation with my friend he said hey you know I'm getting like I'm doing trading on cryptocurrency this was before the cryptocurrency crash and then he said hey you know I'm getting like 10 20% on my cryptocurrency the currency is going what's going up it's Bitcoin it through into whatever a thousand and then I had a discussion with my mentor because he's another person who didn't touch crypto okay he didn't touch crypto before the crash he said hey you know hey can you need to like understand that what they're doing is trading they're not really really investing they okay so most people they look at indicators they try to you know see an uptrend or see a downtrend and then they try to make market or whatever predictions and my mentor said to me they are trading okay there's nothing wrong with trading but are you the person who wants to do trading or are you the person who wants to do investing so I thought to myself and say okay I'm gonna be investor I'm gonna not be a trader so I simply before the before the crypto crash recently I put my savings into crypto saving which is like a US dollar saving account and I was still getting that 10% and I should beat the S&P by just doing saving crypto like saving my US dollars in the cryptocurrency savings account and then like recently I had a chat with my other friend and he said he lost a lot of money he's holding on to the Ethereum holding on to Bitcoin and whatever and I said hey you know man like this is you know I was very lucky that had a mentor to just stop me right there to do something stupid or crazy because you know when the hype was there you don't have any valuation and you will think to yourself hey no can I just buy one small piece even a small piece you have that gambling mindset at the back of your head but I'm very lucky someone pulled it back and that's how I kind of prevented myself from getting caught in this huge crash okay you never know to go back up yeah you never know crypto is gonna go back up enough but with stock you always know it's gonna go back up okay I think that's very interesting when it comes to like because just how you talk about mindset right like as an investor we all know that you know it's actually very difficult to to control the emotions and everything how many of you maybe the audience here right now like you feel like oh you know you know the right thing to do but end up you don't do it because there's emotions that we fear be agree you know how many of you experience emotions before in investing if you do maybe can type E in the chat right so how do you control your emotions so that you can make better decisions yeah be it let's talk more about like let's say the the stock and options market yeah oh cool okay so okay okay so I think a lot of audience here know about option trading so I'm pretty pretty sure that I don't know maybe some of you your positions are in a in a loss on options right now you look at your account and you see holy moly this is 20% 30% 50% loss in options but then you have to ask yourself like what are you buying are you buying a business and if you if you attended OMI you should know that options is a contract to really actually lock in your buying price so if you have that concept and because let's say you bought an option at let's say Apple price at $100 you bought a co-option and then you know the Apple price came down to $50 per share your your co-option price at that $50 actually becomes cheaper as well so then again if you if you have that mindset which is my mentor always tell you look at the valuation look at the value look at the valuation is it something that will go back up or is it something that's gonna go flat or something go down right I look at Apple shares and I think to myself you know I look around the world I see most people using Apple phones and more so actually I bought two more co-options when the price came crashing down at the money so so this is like this is like you know buying stock you buy one share when it's expensive you buy one share when it becomes cheaper you can buy two shares or three shares or four shares so I think the the the mindset is is the king and I was just really lucky that I had a mentor to really help me oh so you think like having this accountability at least point you back to the right track and then at the same time to you like what else do you do like every day to have that stability in terms of my set apart from having a mentor okay apart from I mean um so actually actually it's actually very interesting because okay my mentor coached me for five like more than five years then he went away so so it really comes down to like your own studies you go and read like for me for example I study like even I do stocks options crypto NFT and you know everything so it's the ability to read and to understand and understand what great investors are thinking like how warm brother thinks how Charlie Munger thinks what is Ray Dalio thinking what is Michael Burry thinking what is Kathy would thinking so I kind of don't like happy with now because she's okay anyway it's not talking about that so you go and look at what other investors are doing and you can see every investor is different Ray Dalio actually has a lot of percentage in ETFs he has a lot percentage in ETFs Michael Burry is the guy who does shorting when he when he ever he sees a hype whatever hype there was whatever hype he shorts the stock and that's how he makes the money and Warren Buffett is the most classic and traditional person of doing value investing and yeah so so the thing about investing is like you have to like go and study the mindset of these famous great investors that's how you can train your mind to not have that motion of that that fear and how many of you actually dare to buy more two or three weeks ago if you if you if you buy more just type n for more in the chat for me if you dare to buy more if you didn't really care about catching the bottom you don't really care about the stock money you only look at the valuation and you just you know you knew this is a good company and they look at the revenue look at the the EPS and you just bought more if you had that mindset then I can say that you know you're very like you're a real value investor yeah so at the end of the day I think what can I say that it really boils down boils down to focusing on the business itself like I'm appreciating the value of it because I I really feel like if you buy a business at a very good price like for example what's happening right now or like what can say like just like maybe two one to two weeks ago you are really entering the stock market with a high margin of safety and then when it comes to investing it's actually just about safety if you put at your downside the upside will take care of itself right this is Donald Trump say it like this is actually so true so so like if you are actually even like in this current market condition what do you think it's the like do you think actually it's right time to enter right now okay I actually had this discussion with someone this morning and it's like right now it's a very interesting point because you look at technical analysis it's hitting the resistance line but you look at valuation a lot of quality companies are still undervalued so like let's say tonight I actually don't know if tonight is a good time to buy or not and can't predict the price I only know that it's it was higher than a few weeks before so I would say that a few weeks a few weeks ago that was the best time to buy but right now you look at the technical analysis hitting the resistance line but at the same time the EMA was crossing each other so it's a kind of indication of a bull market but then can you actually buy it that's like a very hard question to answer so in my telegram I always tell people that hey you know I don't try to predict the market you always just look at the valuation look at the valuation you always buy it when people are fearful and you don't buy when people are greedy and you will do well in the long run and I think like what Ken is referring that if you are a little bit afraid of the resistance if you are like doing options like for example co-options because you do have you know time decay and stuff and you are afraid maybe you can even consider maybe buying some shares or what do you think right and that's how at least they get their investing journey started rather than trying to once again time the market which nobody can time the bottom okay yeah oh I saw some questions yeah okay well maybe yeah sure why not you let me know which question do you want okay okay averaging with option G by the same okay this one you go and SP like you're all my student go SP this one this one this one I kind of have my own answer because because I can't really tell what to do now because it's you have to you need a very strong mindset to understand it depends on like your stock so let's say for example if let's just use S&P 500 for example it's like you know the most easiest one and 90% time goes up do buy the same story day or buy the next longer expiration date it okay for me because I always buy the longest and I always buy longer because I want maximum safety so even though like right now my portfolios my buy co-options did get hit a lot like it was down a lot but I bought a two-year co-option like every time I'll always buy the two-year co-option and that's how like I'm not you know panicking right now I'm not looking back for folio I'm thinking oh which one I close which I close so you always buy it always buy the longest one okay I think another very good question that it's actually very related to people with smaller portfolio like how did you if we go back to your journey right like how did you actually get started growing from you know like started with a full figure to eventually how you grow it to right now what do you actually do okay this is a very very interesting question so okay so guys so when I started with my portfolio I've been investing for 10 years so I was doing I was doing four acts and then and then there was a time when I was a little bit further market so I actually put some money into my mutual fund now I already I already know how to do stock like stock picking and all the valuation everything so I put some money into mutual funds then I went joined Chloe's OMI because I wasn't too sure about options before so then okay guys this is the most powerful and simple strategy ever now if you attend the OMI you will know how to use the EMAs we have the EMA 2050 100 and 200 and this is a story this is a very very true story they're very true story so there was one time in the 2008 crash there was a trade war going on in China the market plunged now and then the the Taiwan market also plunged as well so I was I was going into the the the market doing some grocery shopping then I heard about this very very old grandma she was talking to her neighbor and said hey you know the the the stock market crashed I bought some shares of the index in Taiwan and I spoke to the grandma I asked hey grandma so you know how to invest and the grandma said no I know nothing about investing but I know that the index is going to go back up and I know that TSM is a strong company so I know I put some money in TSM I put some money in the index and then right now you look at the the price of the Taiwan index or the price of the of the TSM and she made money so so after after that story I was I was doing that with my stocks but then I did it with options and it became really really powerful because when you use options you know you know let's say you pretend that you attended OMI before and then you know how to look at the technical indicators you don't do anything too crazy and you just wait for like a huge huge crash right now and you can see the S&P 500 a few weeks ago it was actually touching the 200 EMA now you go and trace back you go and trace back you you go and trace back you look you use the five-year chart or the longest chart you can see that every time when S&P 500 touches a 200 EMA it rebounds now the question is will it touch it no one knows so no one knows but the thing what you can do is let's say when it didn't touch it you you spy E by sheer you don't go too crazy but when it touches it that's where you you know pull your big guns you you can sell put by a call at the same time so you for example right you can sell a long put you can buy a long call at the same time or you just buy a long call and hold on to it and that's how you actually make make money because we know that the S&P 500 or the QQQ um compared to individual stocks um they do have a higher chance of going up so so that's that is the thing that you can kind of bet more heavily into so so yeah so so if you don't know about options right make sure you try to uh you know you get some education you know maybe maybe learn from Chloe or learn from Pete and um yeah make sure you have you understand what you're doing so if you have a smaller portfolio don't worry um i would probably say like a few weeks ago that was the best time to buy um if you know how to look at the indicators otherwise you can still buy like small like um buy shares right buy shares yeah and then just how you were saying that um when it comes to using the the 200 EMA that you said just now it was is it on a two a five-year chart or is it i believe you're talking about a five-year chart right because it actually touched the five-year chart 200 EMA yeah yeah it actually it actually did so oh maybe you can you can share okay okay so i didn't want this to become too okay okay this if you already know all of my right you will pick this up very fast if you don't want all of my or option you know learn from Chloe or learn from Pete so guys let me just show you guys this because this is really really powerful and um let's say you you look at the five-year chart of the S&P 500 and let me just make this line clear a little bit more and um all right so hold on so you look at you look at the chart you look at this this is the the the the the S&P 500 i'm going to take away other indicators so make sure it's not so guys look at this this was the ultimate best time for you to use options right you can sell put sell buy call do whatever you want right so that was that that was the best time right now so you know when it touches it even though it broke it right that was in 2020 you buy a call option you hold on to it and then and then you get out somewhere here when you know the 20 charges is 50 right go learn just from OMI you still make money right over here same thing 2009 touches it touches the 200 EMA go back up when you see the crash you get out and it happened in 2016 and it happened in 2011 um the the dotcom bubble that one was sorry the housing bubble that was different but if you just do this every single time with your buy call you'll make money it's like you know it's like it's it's it's it's literally like a no-brainer it's kind of like the power coupage strategy that Sean talks about right so so yeah so it's like let's say you're a complete beginner you just need to understand what is the call option and you can make money it is it's very very easy just just like that and when you buy this in p500 you don't really need to worry about the news at all yeah yeah so so for yourself is that how you managed to uh you know catch multiple bottoms using these indicators or how does that go yes so let's say because before that I was using I was doing stocks but then I found that stocks would have a okay stocks are stocks are safer but if you truly understand value investing you should buy more when when the company or the smp5 goes down you should always buy more it's called like a pyramid of a triangle um in in Taiwan called so you buy more and more so let's say let's say and this is where the power of options come in so let's just pretend that you know you bought shares shares shares when you see the touch of blue mine you go one co-option two co-option three co-option and it goes up you make money so so that's that's and even if even if right let's say you buy like three co-options right here you close it then you're super afraid you closer somewhere around here or you close it at the resistance line you still you still make money because because for buying calls um I kind of like to get up earlier because there's time decay so I don't really like to hold on to calls um a lot for a long time unless I'm in a huge drop then have to hold on for a longer time but so let's just say when you see this right here you buy three or four or five co-options and you just get out over here you don't take too much risk you don't get too greedy you don't you know you don't you don't do that right you can make money very very easy very easy yeah so basically it's like you you time your entry and you time your exit um much more actively when you do options to ensure your profits is that right yes so it let's just say actually it means that only do heavy bets when it touches the touches the 200 EMA that's where I go like a lot of options inside and that's how you can actually you also reduce your risk and increase your profits at the same time because let's just pretend that you buy one call here you buy you buy a one call here co-option here second co-option here and the third co-option over here you hold on to it right now you're still making money exactly I I think this investment philosophy is pretty similar to how Charlie Munger he has been saying right like like when you see a good opportunities uh back big right like like don't don't just this is also what Warren Buffett say right like you don't want to take out a teaspoon when it's down pouring right you want to make sure you bring out the whole bucket to catch them the water right when opportunities are here oh yeah yeah yeah yeah let me let me uh comment on that here the the quote the one but the most famous quote Warren Buffett said was when it rains gold right when it's gold don't use a thin bowl but use a bucket so when the opportunity comes definitely then we go big right go just go big and then that's how you grow your portfolio okay I see so my next question back to your journey is like you know like going through all this you know volatility different kind of crisis like to you what do you think is the most important attributes that an investor should cultivate in order to make sure they are able to really know not just not just you know like because a lot of people will end up giving up because of what happened in the stock market they lost money but how do you um what kind of things that do you think that they can do to make sure that they actually can survive to but in fact actually prosper from that like what kind of mindset they need to cultivate yeah oh this was okay another good story to tell so in one of the crashes um in one of the crashes I I I already knew that I had to buy more at the bottom I already knew that but then there in one of the crashes I actually ended up um spending my cash too quickly so I think it was the I think it was the COVID crash um I actually like I started to buy more and more when the market came all the way down so I had to buy more and more and more and even though you know that the stock market is it's going to come back up you know that because you've been through many kinds of but you just don't see the bottom because you look at your during that COVID crash it broke the 200 EMA so I actually doubted myself and like hey this never ever happened before because I was always trading on the 200 EMA and um it broke the 200 EMA and I was like holy shit like if if the market doesn't go back up what should I do so then it then it goes it then the the thing I had to reflect was was I uh was I buying the was I buying too frequently should I have waited for a 10 percent drop or 20 percent drop or even a 30 percent drop before I buy the second time the fourth time the fifth time and um it also reminded me that why like savings are important so this is why I have my crypto savings right now which there's a part of the money I put in my usdc savings account which is you know the US dollar account and um yeah so so so it makes you think about like even in this crash right no one could kind of you know even though I saw the 200 EMA I bought a call option but I I I couldn't I didn't go like buy 100 call options right didn't do that because you never know it's gonna just drop more you know you never really know so the thing about like you need to think about where do you get your cash flow from are you getting your cash flow from your dividends from your crypto savings from your daily job from your self-put options or from your business that's another uh another very important factor you should consider and if you guys if you if you think about a week a month ago the news was saying recession was coming everyone was saying the market was gonna crash more and people were saying that the Fed this is the most ridiculous thing Fed when Fed announced the interest rate raised the first time the market came crashing down recently the Fed said that they're gonna increase interest rate again the market went back up so you know there's no point of looking or watching at the news there's no point to look at any news at all and this is what Warren Buffett said he said you can't predict the market by reading the the headline and even you look at the Twitter something there's something going on with Elon Musk and Twitter some people you know maybe traders or whatever they're trying to predict an outcome of that company but if you look at Warren Buffett or Charlie Munger or you know they don't care about that they go and understand what Twitter is doing is Twitter a good company and today regardless of Elon Musk buying Twitter or not do you understand company do you like the company and do you see the future of the company and we can see that right now the company there's something wrong with it so so so the thing about I think being like a really really solid investor is you really have to think hard and the most important question that you know I always tell my followers and my telegram is that you have to understand when to get out because understanding even Adam Koo said that you know I learned from a lot of investors Adam Koo said that if you don't know when to get out then you know maybe you shouldn't get in and then that's like very in line with my philosophy let's say even my crypto right I got in at the bottom I made money but I'm like right now I don't know if I should get out because I don't know if Bitcoin Ethereum my Solana my Cardano my whatever point is it going to go up more is it going to go back down I have no idea I can't do a valuation crypto so so that that's a question actually the only one question that you should you should solve is when to get out if you know when to get out of a business you know when to buy so that's like the most important question of all I think it's really boils down to your game plan right your investment game plan that a lot of times people only think about entering but then if they never think true when to get out that that means it's not a well thought true game plan and I can tell that you know can he really focus on like the whole investment process it's like not just from entering but all the way until when to exit so that he can really plan his strategy whatever positions wisely so I think this is um I also want to ask so far like are you guys learning from this interview if you learn and you find it useful can you type learn in the chat all right and if it's useful for you guys as well make sure just to help us to share this post you know to to maybe to just just click the share button so that more people can get to benefit from this sharing as well all right so there are some questions coming in from the audience right he's asked okay Solo is asking um do you still hold on if the stock suddenly drop a lot after you buy a call option okay ah very very good question so this okay so I get asked this a lot and I was actually having this there's one like I was okay so at you know being an investor like you always have to be humble and talk to a lot of people to understand what they're thinking I would talk to this this this trader this trader and he said I said a stop loss so he said like if I buy apple at $100 and apple dropped to $50 I'm gonna cut loss and then I said to him man so okay so you're gonna cut loss so means you're gonna sell where your stock right then he said yeah and then said okay I'm gonna buy your stock and he said why why am I are you gonna buy my stocks and he said because I said because it's so cheap so you know I you know if you I I didn't want to buy $100 but if you're willing to sell to me at $50 I want to buy it then he froze he said wait let me think about it again wait why am I cutting losses again and he said oh because I'm gonna do a stop loss and I said yeah so I'll buy from your stop loss so the thing about options trading is kind of like the same thing right so the the thing about investing is you have to do it before it happens you have to buy before it goes up you have to get out before come down you have to buy a put option to protect yourself before come down you have to buy a call option before the price goes up right if you do it let's say let's say I think a lot of people maybe they missed out on this this uptrend right now and a lot of people I can I know how you guys feel you probably feel like you want to get in right now because you missed out on the trend because you missed out at the bottom and this is where some people lose money I wouldn't say I don't know the thing you can go up can go down but most times what I see is that people didn't get in when they were cheap they see go up up up up up and they kind of hold on to more hold on to it anymore they're like oh I'm gonna miss I'm gonna miss I'm gonna miss out they're gonna buy in and they lose money and because the interesting about stock investing is that whatever what has happened is already happened it's not doesn't mean that's gonna happen in the future what's done what's dropped has dropped you don't know if it's gonna drop more maybe it won't maybe it won't what if it's gone up already has gone up you don't know if it's gonna go up anymore it could come coming down so to your question do you still hold on if the stock suddenly drops a lot after you buy a coffee yes I do and it's because I have strong conviction on the co-option that I I buy on my stock so for example Microsoft even though my co-option is still still in a drop right now you look at the valuation you look at the whole business model I bought more shares bought more options yeah so basically a old boy's down to the conviction which is pretty similar to what Pete shared during the recent OMI that you know during the COVID crash that his amazon co-option was losing a lot of money like close to 90% but then he didn't cut loss because to him that this is a business that really makes sense that will continue to to benefit from the from the trend of how people shop online and eventually it actually recover pretty quickly and in the end his co-options actually make money so it all boils down to your conviction yeah so all right so another stock another ODI is asking a very interesting question question in terms of like do you have top 10 companies in your okay all right guys not financial advice but I'll give you my top 10 okay not financial advice and I'll explain why because I okay so I have I have three sinking layers okay so number one is the mindset understand why I'm buying it went to get out if if I can't decide when to get out I don't even touch the stock number two is do your valuations correctly if you do your valuations correctly then you go into technical analysis you try to catch the bottom and then use your options so I go through these four layers to decide what strategies I want to use so and these are the 10 stocks that I have gone through and so number one Microsoft Apple Google Facebook Berkshire Hathaway Warren Buffett's company and his holdings inside Bank of America Coca-Cola Apple already inside of Bank of America Coca-Cola the other one American Express and I kind of I tried to understand what Kraft Heinz was doing but then I didn't buy it so basically those are the 10 because if you think about who is the greatest investor in the world it's definitely Warren Buffett and if you look at the portfolio and understand that the companies that he has been holding on to for the longest are the four the Apple, the XP, Bank of America and Coca-Cola so you know that these companies have been tested and proven to profit you know throughout the entire history so this is why I'm okay to use you might be selling and put it by encryption for tech stocks I use Facebook you guys use Facebook, YouTube, Gmail, Apple phones, Microsoft Office so these are the four companies that I think that are going to last forever and the most important thing is like I know when to get out if someday I'm not using Facebook anymore I'll probably sell my Facebook shares I don't watch YouTube anymore or use Google map anymore, Gmail anymore, Google search anymore maybe also I don't buy Amazon because I don't use Amazon I know it's a great business the valuation is good but I just don't buy it because I don't know when to get out that's the only problem okay very interesting I think you also shared a little bit inside of when to get out in terms of once again it's from your observation and from your own experience like do you see that you know like like do you continue to use it do people around you continue to use it that kind of gives you more more clues on when to get out is that right what else do you do to determine when to get out yeah so the thing about like I actually learned this from a mentor and he said that he said that he said a very very important concept to me he said hey you know like most people when they go and invest they think about making money but he said when you go invest you need to think about it as spending money and I was confused I was like wait what are you talking about he said when you buy whatever things right you're spending money it is the things that you acquire that's either going to make you or break you so once you have that mindset you think about investing as spending money buying something then you treat your your merchandise your product very carefully and closely so I think the thing about is like it's it's it's all in the mindset and I remember like even Warren Buffett or Sean even said that in his book he said when you're buying stocks it's like going to the supermarket to to go shopping and as a as an investor like I look at stocks every day I look at some of the companies you basically you're going through a supermarket you're browsing your products you're looking for something and then someday you see this huge discount on a bowl of cereal a piece of chocolate something very good then you know that oh this is something good I want it I want it right now and that's time for you to to buy but you don't want to participate when there's a hike means like a mob can go to a thousand dollars for whatever reason that's something like you look at a mob and you think why is the mob costing a thousand dollars you would not want to buy it but in the investing world people look at whatever things like maybe bitcoin or whatever they look at you know it's so expensive and they want to buy it so this is weird because in the investing world when something is cheap they don't want it when something is expensive they want it so this is why investing is hard but once you have that mindset you know because I was very lucky someone taught that to me so um I very really participate in any kind of hypes and that actually protected me from a lot a lot of uh crypto crashes market crashes so when you're saying that like uh when you come to investing become like you are spending when you are spending people generally are more prudent and that's why you feel like if you have this mindset um it kind of really hold you back from spending unnecessarily is that what what what yeah yeah yeah because when you when you think about spending money to buy stocks crypto or whatever you think very hard because you're spending money and and you don't know that if that money is going to give you returns right you right you buy bitcoin I don't know if it's going to give me returns you know some okay so some of you know that you you can get some dividends on your bitcoin but if you just buy bitcoin without any dividends at all and I would say like you have to you're kind of like just trading or you don't what are you trying to get you're trying to get a dividends or getting cash flow or trying to get a value appreciation if you want a value appreciation then you have to go and understand why this ball of cereal this ball of this this uh this map but this this vacuum is so expensive what is it so valuable what problems can it solve why are people doing it so so yeah I see okay very interesting so um like some other questions coming in as well like uh for example the Lee Hing is asking oh do you actually have Tesla I do not because I don't drive the car and the valuations overvalued so I do not have Tesla I say that's clear so once again boys down to whether so you can see Ken as a safe investor he always really want to invest in something that he himself can understand and he himself uses right and that's why if he doesn't use Tesla like he doesn't use Amazon he will not touch it because he do not know when to exit so you can consider adopting this philosophy as well you know help you to make better decisions all right so I think another very good question from Brian is asking like if you know I mean generally people start with a smaller portfolio right what's your advice for that okay so buy stocks that are you know okay so yeah okay so Ryan so remember this is not any you know stock recommendation I'll just tell you my my my true story so I was trading on QQQ and I was trading on TQQQ okay so it means that um okay when you when you when you first start right when you have a small portfolio and I don't know if you're if you're in the group coaching up here or not but let's just pretend that you don't have a mentor but okay let's pretend you had no one to guide you right you kind of don't want to make mistakes you go for a safest option so when I first started um I was trading on at the S&P 500 and I was trading on QQQ because these two are the safest and we know that 90% of the time is going to go back up um then I got more advanced that I started to trade on leveraged ETFs like TQQQ and individual stocks so but then so this is a general rule of thumb you want to go for high predictability instead of high profitability so let's just say Coinbase right now we look at Coinbase right Coinbase has been around for 10 years maybe maybe not maybe five I don't know maybe five or six years and it's the first exchange to go public now Binance is Binance is not in public so Coinbase is the new company and it's the first company and you can see that one night it can go up 10% 20% but then it has high profitability but low predictability so this means that if you buy a corruption it crashes 10, 20, 50% percent you don't know if it's going to not know if it's going to go back up but if you always aim for high probability like ETFs or any kind of ETF right because I remember Chloe has a course on ETF right you use on your ETFs even though your returns are a little bit lower but then you can still you do it consistently you increase your win rate so I've been using it on the SPY QQQ and TQQQ okay so so that that's how I used it but if you want to learn more right definitely go and learn for OMI yeah okay I think I think what you said just now is so I think there's a lot of wisdom in terms of focus not just not that profitability but the predictability and if if you just focus doing that actually most of the time you will actually end up buying group businesses because usually good businesses are very predictable and that also can prevent investors facing you know like huge losses because investing in hype stocks that are actually very very profitable could be it sounds very profitable but not very predictable after all right and I think Wei Jie was saying that oh Tesla actually has value maybe you do not understand and I think it totally it's it's true right like we don't have to understand every single thing that that um you know just like Warren Buffett he also doesn't invest in Tesla but doesn't mean that Tesla is not a good company for me I also invest in Tesla and I went to do research on it and I believe in the value of it even though I remember there's a quote from Warren Buffett and I totally understand like you know maybe that is it because I don't understand the value and I can't understand the value so that's why I'm not touching it so Warren Buffett said that he regretted not buying Google he regretted not buying Microsoft he simply said that because we're just too dumb to make them make the decision he regretted selling out Disney and he said that you know it's like there are things that you look at it you think you understand after a while you you think that you understand but you actually do not understand so you know if you understand the value go ahead all right I can't say you're wrong but definitely don't go ahead and if you think you understand the value go understand but I don't understand I do not know when to get out I don't have a Tesla car I'm not going to buy it yeah so different investors are different just like what Ken said there are so many ways of investing you have to as long as you are comfortable with your own way of investing and give you the consistency I think my own means strengthen your principle on that all right so because it's almost coming to an hour I just want to ask a few more questions all right because at the end of the day I want to compile all this wisdom from different investors into my own book that I want to publish it this year oh my god so stressed right now okay I'm gonna start working on it so that's why I'm just compiling all this wisdom so that I can put it in a book and and and give it to all of you to read at the same time so Ken if you can turn back time right like 10 years ago for example what's the thing that you think that you should do and you should you will not do to your younger self I actually okay this is like I regret it not meeting my mentor because I was doing like 4x trading and it was like so stressful but today you make $1,000 tomorrow you lose $500 you know next day you make $2,000 next day you lose you know I don't know it's like it's just crazy and there was just so much stress at that time and even though you set the stop loss or the take profit but it's like there's no there's no true value in 4x trading and I wish that had learned the term the core concept from a mentor which is value seeking or cash flow if it right if you buy a house you do a crypto saving you get your cash flow and you rent you rent out your house get some cash flow you lend something out that even bonds the bonds give you cash flow if you're doing whatever crypto trading whatever then you really need to think about what is the value of the coin the token stock the real estate the car the painting and and I wish I didn't waste so much time on trading and you know losing money but actually that it it kind of helped me actually because I knew that technical analysis only is like 60 to 80 percent accuracy so when I learned value investing for my mentor I totally get it and and I totally understand why value seeking is so important than just trading on stocks and crypto or 4x yeah I see so it once again a voice down to um getting yourself on the right track sooner and then Ken will have actually you know prevented himself from you know dabbling in the forest market for so long and actually wasted quite a lot of time but once again I think there's no uh there's no mistakes it's only like lesson learned and then he learned from this and actually anchored him to be an even stronger investor so this is what you will tell yourself not to do then how about what to do then what to do uh um okay so when you are starting off when you're starting off right it is actually I think it's okay I was lucky because I had someone teach me but if you if you if you're like a person who doesn't like to read a ton of books I think you should like you know follow Chloe or follow P or Sean or even Adam Koo or you thought you find an investor that you like and you go and study that person you can be Charlie Munger or or uh Warren Buffett or you have to find a person to to model and you need to think about what is his philosophy what is his philosophy talking about and there are different different philosophies and my mentor he taught me that hey you know like you know he he he really loves Warren Buffett so he taught me that hey you know don't lose money don't lose money don't lose money and that's why I call myself or name myself to remind myself that hey you know I'm the safe investor I always look for safety and whatever I buy so my recommendation is that if you you have to go and find someone to for starters right you have to go and find someone understand their philosophy understand what they're doing and you learn from them and that's going to give you the quickest results I see I think Yvonne is very curious who has your mentor oh yeah he's a he's a friend of a friend but uh he's he's actually from Taiwan he's not from Singapore I see yeah so you have to go all the way to Taiwan to find this mentor Yvonne all right so before we wrap up this interview right maybe we can can share with us like maybe three key advice um that you will give to investors right be it their beginners or they are on the way you know what are the three key advice that you will give okay so three advice so if if you are a beginner right and um let's say let's just pretend you don't have a mentor I would say definitely start from the S&P 500 or the or the index fund and even Warren Buffett says that he has his reasons you know he he did a bet against the hedge funds for a 10-year bet no hedge fund can beat him by him just buying the S&P 500 if you use your call options or you put options on the S&P 500 then you have a very high winning chance okay for for beginners now if you're you know you learn from all my how to do the variation how to look at technical analysis then definitely you can go and do more advanced strategies on auction trading um if you're very very advanced then I think that I think maybe you already understand what I'm trying to say um so I think the the key okay sorry one two three right so number one understand why you're buying too many things understand why you're buying number two no one to get out this is the ultimate question you want to solve number two want to get out and number three um okay number three is can you hold onto it for long term if you can't hold on to it for long term maybe don't buy it okay maybe don't buy let's let's just say that you know when to get in you know when to get out that's trading that's not investing right you know that oh this is the bottom of bitcoin right you look at the support resistance you go yeah support get our resistance that's trading but that's not investing I see so at the end of the voice down to investing once again investing in something that you understand and you're willing to actually invest for long term right and then at the same time you need to have an exit plan and not just buy and forget but then buy and hold if you were to hold on to it because it still has value appreciation or maybe it gives you cash flow and there's no reason for exit but then if it turns back then that's when you need to start thinking about it right so hardy oh my god hardy is here oh wow hey hardy the the seven figure investor hardy is such a great investor right I managed to interview him I think last month right so guys if you did not manage to catch the interview you can go to my youtube channel and I had a very good uh in that in that discussion with hardy and how he's his own journey has been as well as an investor to grow his portfolio to seven figure using using options as well all right so in the meantime uh yeah uh Kevin is saying that oh I want to get your book Chloe okay so then make sure I feel motivated right now to start writing my book now gets to interview so many good investors I need to compound all their wisdom so I really am to have it by end of this year so do join my calligram channel so that you can stay up to date how you can get a copy of the book as well in the meantime all right uh we may also make sure to follow Ken the safe investor because he also has a lot of a lot of options investment insights as well as even crypto investment insights as well so yeah so any any else that you want to highlight Ken um you know before we wrap up this interview um maybe I'll just answer one more question uh oh thank you hardy I'm I'm so flattered because I'm learning I'm not getting the seven figure uh investor very yeah yeah I really look up to you as well um let me just answer one more question um precious metal um OD right your precious metal your question about precious metal um okay so I can't won't tell you I can't say buy or buy not but not buy but think about what contributes value and does it have value appreciation or does it have cash flow because for me I don't buy okay but you need to think about you need to think about that all right so all right even let's go Taiwan together going there end of the year all right so once again thank you everybody uh for coming here and and if you guys find this useful can you type ccc in the chat cap cap clap to ken and cap cap to I think every single one of you to choose to commit to your own learning and actually spend your evening together with us to keep on learning keep on surround yourself with the right mindset the right environment so that you can keep going in this investment to the right direction so that you can take it to the next level so with that all right do join us in our own telegram channel that I think the link is all below for me it's aligato investor for ken is the safe investor just search the telegram you should be able to find us as well so with that see you guys next round and can't wait to really continue to make sure to continue to stay investor I think right now the market even though it's slightly at the resistant area but do observe a little bit if you are afraid of entering options right now just buy some checks right or even selling some puts because the valuation is so attractive right but if you do have a bigger portfolio and you actually can have multiple bullets to shoot then you can consider entering maybe just one position and if it drops furthermore enter a second position make sure you always get a longest call option right if you are using strategy x all right so with that thank you everybody and we will see you guys some next time see you bye bye see you guys bye bye