 Are you saying plants don't have brains or insects don't have brains? You don't have to keep going. I'm not a student. My brother, this is hilarious. But no, it's not hilarious. Why do you eat certain insects that are sentience and have consciousness? What do you mean? Are you a troll? Is he mucking around? What is the reason that you don't eat animals? For the same reason I wouldn't eat you? You're not answering the question. I did ask it. For the same reason I would eat you, your conscious being who has their own experience and I shouldn't be able to dictate when I can rob that experience from you. So consciousness is the test? Sentience, yeah, consciousness. They are under the banner. Animals do not have consciousness. Got evidence for that, mate? Yes. Okay, they have a brain. What does a brain do? A brain does a lot of things. Does it generate consciousness? No, it doesn't. Where does consciousness come from? Well, consciousness is... Where does your consciousness come from? A consciousness... Well, all right, so now we're getting into... Where does yours come from? All right, I'll try and answer it. Now we're getting into religious aspects. So I believe that we are made in the image of God and in the likeness of God and consciousness comes from God. God gave us the consciousness to discern between good and evil. Are you going to give animals consciousness? No, he didn't. So we gave him brains to do nothing? Sounds pretty... Not nothing. They are living beings. Okay, so... So with plants? I didn't care about that. You're exactly where I'm going. Exactly where I'm going. Okay. So I... Why should I care about animals? As I understand vegans, I'm not talking about you, vegans don't eat animals because they're living beings. No. Did I say that to you when you asked me why? I think... Well, you didn't answer the question. I did answer the question. I said because... For the same reason I wouldn't eat you and I said because you're conscious and sentient to have an experience. Conscious as in almost self-aware? I did not say because you are living. Exactly. So you're saying... What do you mean exactly? You said vegans think we don't eat things because they're living. But we... Plants. Well, okay, so it's a loaded question. You are saying that animals have a conscience. Not a conscience. They're self-aware. Consciousness. Yeah, consciousness. You don't have to be self-aware to be sentient. But you're saying they're self-aware. I'm saying... Well, self-awareness is an aspect of sentience but it doesn't have to be... You don't have to be self-aware to be sentient. How do you know they have consciousness? Consciousness? Yes. Because we can infer it. How do I know you do it? They're living. How do I know you do it? Well, we are very different from animals. We... You have a brain? We think exactly. We have an intellect. We have free will. Where does your thinking come from? Okay, so thinking comes from a number of faces. Your soul. Okay, you have a soul. Yes, you have a soul. You have evidence of a soul? You have an eye, yes. There is evidence of a soul. Where? But... Show me. Well, certain things... There are different ways of proving different things. Okay? So... Prove to me you have a soul. Proving... Proving whether somebody has a soul is a different aspect. No, no, no, no. What I'm trying to say is that... No, no, no. Don't change your subject. Prove to me you have a soul. All right. You want proof that there's evidence of a soul. Okay. Soul is defined as that thing that gives life to the body. Without a soul, the body dies. So animals have a soul? They do have a soul. Okay. But not the same soul that we have. I don't... That's not strong enough evidence because you're saying it, by the way. Exactly, yes, yes. I mean, I've got evidence animals are conscious and sentient because they have a brain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but... Well, no, that's not... And you're saying no, they're not because God didn't give them consciousness. No. You don't have evidence for God either. So you're using one more in different... In very different meanings, okay? They're alive, okay? Whether they are self-aware... I think that's how you're using the word consciousness. I've never said the word self-aware. You said that. So what do you mean by consciousness? So you're sentient. See this experience you're having right now where you can see and you can feel and you have senses? Okay. All right, so the senses deceive you. The way you perceive the life, the world around you is not the way it really is, okay? Really? Yes, it is. There is evidence, that's something else. We only perceive a spectrum of the life. So how does that prove animals aren't sentient? Well, wait, no, you're supposed to prove, okay? Well, wait, because you have the brain around you. I have the brain around you. What I'm trying to say is that the senses deceive you. All right, I just want to hold on this point. So you perceive the burden of proof from someone who says God gave animals no consciousness, human consciousness. So consciousness, are you using that? And you're talking about the burden of proof right now? Are you talking in the sense of self-awareness? The burden of proof is an atheist concept, you know that, right? No, no, no, no, no, it's not. It's a legal. It's popularized by atheists. It's illegal, no, no. Because they use it against religious people who believe God exists without no proof. No, no, it's a legal concept who bears the burden of proof or proving something. And I can infer it based on them having a brain, then react just because they have a brain. Okay, so insects have brains, insects have brains. Some insects do, yes, some insects do. Exactly, does that mean they have consciousness? Trivially, yes. Do they? Do they really? Yeah, but what do you mean? Do they really, there's science to prove to them? There's science to prove they have consciousness? Well, these? Just because, what is a brain? It's a CPU. It's just, it's a function. Centralized nervous system. Exactly, that's what a brain is. Just because you have a brain doesn't mean you have a, does a computer have, if it has a central processing unit? They're not sentient computers, they're intelligent like plants, but they're not sentient like plants. They're not intelligent. Okay, plants. Plants have intelligence. Are you saying plants don't have brains? Or insects don't have brains? Okay, maybe. You're acting like a scientist right now. What am I trying to get to? I mean, all right, what am I trying to get to? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that, I think? You just asked me, do plants have brains? And I'm supposed to take it seriously. Okay, insects, insects. Do insects have brains? Exactly. And are you saying, are you saying just because you have a brain, you're self aware? I never said self aware. You're saying this self aware thing. Well, you're not answering the question. Okay, I said because I have brains. Sentients and consciousness. Okay, well, not sentient. I'm saying the brain. You're saying the brain, if you have a brain, you have consciousness. Is that what you're saying? We can infer that. That's a fallacy. I can't prove that. That's a fallacy. I can't, no, because he can be brain dead and not have consciousness and have a brain. I can, exactly. I can easily bring you, give you an example where an insect has a brain but doesn't, doesn't have consciousness. Show me, are you using science to prove that? I'm using science to prove that. Where's your burden of proof? All right. Well, I'm saying just because somebody has a brain or something has a brain doesn't mean that it has a consciousness. Of course, two things can be separate. Yeah, exactly. Like, you can be acting like it. You're acting like you've got a consciousness. Listen, listen, listen. I'm happy when we agree that just because you have a brain doesn't mean you have consciousness. Agreed? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. These people here have brains. Okay. But their behaviors show that they're also experiencing the world subjectively. Yes. Animals, also, so when a dog cuddles up to their owner or wants to go for a walk. Does it mean it has consciousness? It means it has, it's a living being. So you don't think dogs are conscious? I don't know whether they're conscious and the whether you mean that they're conscious. I'm talking about self-awareness. No, no, I'm not talking about self-awareness. Well, that's what self-awareness means. Because people, there are certainly people. Conscious means, no, it doesn't, though. It means conscious means I am self-aware that I exist. We're debating over something where the Exactly, the terminology. Exactly. You think self-awareness is consciousness? No, but what do you mean by consciousness? So not conscience, but consciousness. I already explained to you what I mean. No, what do you mean? You're using the word without explaining it. It's like saying a lot of word and then I'm saying what's the meaning of the word and you're saying, Are you going to listen to me? Because I already told you. No, you didn't, you've missed your turn. You are not defining the word. I did. How do you do it? If I say chair and I'm in table. You don't have to keep going. I'm not stupid. I'm interested. Listen, listen. Okay. Just calm down for a second. Just relax. Let me, let me and listen. When I say consciousness or sentience, right? I'm talking about, I'm telling you what I mean by that word. So it could be purple. What I mean by purple. All right. What I mean by sentience is there is a subject, right? And they are experiencing the world. They feel through their senses. They can perceive the world around them. Yeah. That's what I mean by sentience. So are you clear about what I mean by sentience? That's why. Did you hear what I said? Repeat what I said back to me. You're sad. You're sad. They can experience the world. I am listening to you. But I can easily give you counter example. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. There's a subject involved. Yes. With sentience. Insects. Yeah. They can feel and perceive things. Insects. Which is a level of sentience. Insects do that. I'm talking about sentience, not insects. Because not all insects are sentient. Right? Exactly. Okay. Exactly. But we're sharing features here. Okay. I'm giving you a counter example. They can experience the world around them. They can usually use their eyes and they can perceive insects to do that. So. Insects do that. There's some insects are sentient. But do all, do some, is there an insect? That's that. Yeah. So what's your point? I'm saying animals are. You're really going to really prove it. I'm talking about geese. I'm talking about koalas. You are inferring that they have consciousness. Is a koala sentient? But you're not really answering the question of why you don't eat animals. I did. I said because they're sentient like you. Well, they're not like me. They don't have free will. They don't have the intellect of me. I said they are sentient. They have. In a similar way to human beings. So you don't eat animals because you're saying that they have similar features as humans. Let me just say to you. I think it's wrong to rob an animal of their sentience for taste pleasure. Of their life? Of their life and sentience. Of their life. But it doesn't matter if you have a life but you're not sentient. You're saying. It doesn't matter if you have a life and you are not sentient. I think what you're trying to say. Well, lives don't matter. Sentient beings matter. And I think what you're trying to say, you don't want to rob an animal of their life. Provided they are sentient. Why is there such a distinction? Because that plant is alive. But I don't care about it. Exactly what I'm trying to say. No, but you're trying to. I think videos are saying that to say. No, no, let's try them. I don't care about oysters. I would eat a koala. Would you? No, I'm joking. I wouldn't. Koalas are science. What do you eat? Other animals, like turkeys. What, like Christmas turkey? Yeah, yeah. Oh, go back, go back, go back. Go back, go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Christmas turkey? No, actually I don't. So what do you eat? What animals do you eat? I eat a fish. You eat a fish? That's all you eat, a fish? Yeah, a fish. It's one fish you've eaten in your life. Smoked eggs, innit? It's an unlucky fish. It's an unlucky fish. I know, I know. No! All right, so, as sentient... You're not listening to me. I can't have a productive conversation. You're trying to corner me with this life thing. No, you're not interested. I don't care about life. So, as sentient... I care about sentience. All right. I told you what I care about. I explained what sentience is. You're not listening. A sentient is able to perceive or feel things, okay? That's one branch of sentience. Well, that's... Sentience and consciousness are under the same banner. I told you what I mean by these words. So, you ask me what I mean by them, okay? Okay, all right. What I'm trying to say is that just because something is a sentient is able to perceive and feel things doesn't mean that it has consciousness. Consciousness is a very specific word. How do you feel something without recognizing that you felt it? Pain receptors. How do you feel pain if there's no consciousness being listened? Let me finish. Yeah. How do you feel pain if there's no consciousness being to experience that pain? How can you feel anything? Well, because consciousness is a very different aspect. Consciousness really does mean that you're self-aware of your existence. You're not to be aware of yourself, but you have to be aware of your existence. But you're in the world and you're aware of the world. All right, all right. So, okay, okay. Not aware of yourself, necessarily. Even awareness doesn't come through senses. So, your eyes tell you... You can't be aware and not have any sense. You can. No, you can have senses and you can have pain receptors. How do you experience those things without consciousness? Yeah, you can experience it, but it's just consciousness is very... My brother, this is hilarious. But no, it's not hilarious. It's just, this is where you're tripping. You're saying that animals basically have consciousness. But consciousness is self-awareness, just because you have senses. You're growing up the entire body of science right now. It's hilarious. But that's not science. This is consensus. But there is no... Have you heard of their declaration? No, no, they have a sentence. Have you heard of the declaration of consciousness I understand. I agree with you. No, no, no. Let's go. Because you're going up against them. Yeah, because look, the definition is... Ask your question. Are animals sentient? No, no, they are sentient. But I'm not denying that. Just look at it. Yes, you are. You just denied it, bro. No, no, no. You denied it at the start where animals are sentient, didn't you? No, no, no. I'm not denying that. I'm denying that just because they're sentient, they have a conscience. Or they're conscious. I'm using consciousness and sentience interchangeably. Exactly. I think that's where the... What do you mean? You're following me like exactly. That's where the fallacy lies. Oh, God, this is hilarious. Just because an animal is sentient doesn't follow that they're conscious. In the 2012, the Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness crystallized the scientific consensus that humans are not the only conscious beings and the non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures including octopuses, possess neurological substrate, conflicts enough to support consciousness. So you're going up against scientific consensus. No, but you can also say... And what was your argument? God bestowed humans with... One sec. Your argument was God bestowed humans with consciousness, but not animals. Even though they gave animals brains, they gave animals sensors, animals feel pain. You're against... Are you against animal cruelty? We're using... Are you against animal cruelty? Yes, I am. Why? They're not conscious. I am also against... They're not conscious. Who cares? Land cruelty. They're not conscious. Who cares? So why do you eat a plant? You can't be cruel to a plant. It doesn't have a brain. Well, it's just what the fallacy lies. You're saying we're allowed to eat a plant. You can't be cruel to a plant. Okay, don't interrupt. Don't interrupt. Don't interrupt. You can't be cruel to a plant because they don't have a brain. They don't have consciousness. They don't have sentience. Don't interrupt. Don't interrupt. Listen to me first, okay? So your argument is that you're distinguishing between living organisms. Yes. Yeah. Sentience ones and non-sentience ones. Okay. And this is where the fallacy lies. You're basically saying, I deny the fact that because insects can feel things and they perceive... I never denied some of the sentience. Exactly. They perceive things through their senses as well and they feel pain. But you're saying... Some, but not they. You're talking about 10 million insects. Exactly, not all. It's a complex issue. You're saying even though they are sentience, some of them, some, they still don't have consciousness. And when is the distinction? So can I agree with you? Can I say that? All right. We've got this... You know this is recording, right? All right. Can I agree with you? All right, okay. Everything you're saying has been recorded. Nothing. Okay, beautiful. So you're going to... I'm going to replay what he said. You're like in court. Okay. So do you agree that certain insects are sentience? The ones we definitely know of, yes. Yes. That's perfect. Do you agree that by your definition, if it's a sentient, it has consciousness? Those... I use those two words interchangeably. I'm asking you, yes? Oh, no. Excuse me. I use those two words interchangeably. Perfect. Sentience and consciousness. I just told you... Yep. Those two words, I use them interchangeably. It's the same thing. Thumbs up. When I say sentient, I mean conscious. So why do you eat certain insects that are sentience and have consciousness? What do you mean? By your definition, you said certain insects have sentience and have consciousness. Why do you eat them? I don't eat insects. Why do you... I'm asking you a question again. Those insects... I don't eat insects. Or those insects... I don't eat insects. Well, why do some vegans do? What's the distinction? Why do you distinguish between animals? See, vegans eat insects. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. Which reason? In Japan. They eat insects. Vegans eat insects. Yes, they do. This is... Yes, they do because they don't feel it's an animal. By your definition, you don't eat animals because they're sentience. I just told you... Exactly. Yeah? Exactly. So why do you eat certain insects? I don't eat insects. Oh, you don't first. I'm talking about vegans. Are you a troll? I'm talking about vegans. Are you a troll? But do you understand the fallacy? So I'm just asking you, are you a troll? You understand the fallacy. Is he mucking around? What I'm trying... I just beat him. No, no, no. Are you a troll? I just beat you. He's taking a piss, isn't he? Is he serious? No, I'm just saying, is he serious because I really don't know if you're... What's the distinction between animal, insects and animals? No, I can't take you seriously, man. I do. No, no, no. That's all right, brother. Don't worry about it. I mean, he was taking a piss, though. God, that was weird, dude. No, I can't tell if you're serious. Go home and think about it. Go home and think about it. If you're serious... Insects? I don't eat them, so I know you do. I just want to say hi. Hello. Hey, how are you? Brother, I can't take you seriously, man. No, we've got enough content from you, brother. What have you done?