 So I just heard an incredible stat, which is every minute 200 businesses hit their millionth dollar in revenue using Stripe, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We talk about impact I mean, that's a fun fact to start. I want to start Claire with I think a really formative question Which is when you think back to when you're a child. What did you want to be when you grew up? I Mean the honest answer for a long time is I really want to be a veterinarian like an animal doctor Okay, and you know animals founders Very wild wild domestication processes. I'm just kidding. I just get it I would love to start, you know, we see the Clare Hughes Johnson's day. You've written the incredible book I want to start on management style and philosophy when you think about what it is today How's that changed over time most significantly? Putting my veterinary career aside, I would tell you an interesting thing Which is when I was in college and I don't know what inspired me to do this. My parents are teachers I grew up in an environment that was about learning not about business not about capitalism But somehow in college I acquired a godfather three poster of Al Pacino sitting in a chair and it said real power Cannot be given it must be taken and I think I had a really like I am gonna undermine the superstructure from within by acquiring some sort of power thing that You know, I was very interested in politics at the time I was sort of really interested in power structures and and honestly, I think I was interested in how do you Change power structures. I'd like to believe that but what happened when I became a manager was You realize all of a sudden you can't be the one taking the power You actually have to be giving it to your team and one of the harshest pieces of feedback I ever got was one of my first sort of consulting bosses who I presented The work of my team in front of them to him and I was like, well, I'm the leader I'm gonna present the work and he's gonna give us feedback and after the meeting he took me aside And he said he's like, what do you think and he named each person he asked me What do you think they were thinking and I was like, what were they thinking? I'm like, what do you think of the work and he said, yeah, you really didn't give credit to Trisha You left Dom out. He should have presented the technical section and it was like a huge lesson that I had been thinking I'm the leader. I should talk I should present and instead I should have been empowering the people in the room with the opportunity right to show their work and to get credit and recognition and So you sort of think you're taking power, but actually you should be giving power and then the final twist was You get to enabling of your team you're too kind to them You don't tell them directly you're not doing well you empower them and then you say wait a minute This isn't what I expected so it's like this sort of journey you go on and like how you handle that dynamic of Expectation and feedback of yourself and also of your team This is why I stopped writing schedules because I just didn't stick to them So if we take the like taking power first to get to the management position Do you have to take power though? How do you think about that ascension and what's crucial to go from IC to manager? Yeah, I actually think the best managers are usually ones you're tapping on the shoulder They're not people clamoring to be a manager because the people clamoring to be a manager think it's some route to Power and leadership when in fact like I think them and this is also the trap of management like the most effective Individual contributor is the person you tap on the shoulder and say will you be the manager? But then of course, it's a totally different job Yeah, and they have to completely relearn how they do their work and and trust other people to do the work But that's the best I don't think you want someone who's clamoring because they usually have the wrong reasons There many ICs make good managers because they are totally different jobs And what would you advise founders who have ICs who are maybe gonna be managers in scaling people? I talk about I mean, I'm simplifying here but one of my operating principles is distinguished between management and leadership and If I'm gonna be very simplistic I would say a lot of founders are very natural leaders setting vision very high bar You know almost unrealistic expectations and a lot of operators like me are more natural managers how do I get from point a to b organize the process the project the people and I think ICs can sort of fall in those two categories There's these pace setting leader like like wow that person is ambitious and driven And then there's people who are organizers and really can sort of execute well And and I think over time both could become managers But depending on which camp they're starting in and I do think people have a natural camp They're gonna have some things to learn or they're gonna hit a ceiling in their career Can I ask when you think about kind of delegating those responsibilities that you said there where you kind of said Hey, here's what we've done, but it was you presenting How do you think about importance of speed of execution and does that change over time as well because we're told speed speed speed? Yeah, yeah, yeah velocity velocity velocity. Yeah, um a lot of people think that my book is about people and Organizations like I'm obsessed with and I really do care like, you know, what are companies made up of they're made up of people But really actually the book is about if you build the right systems and processes It out it affects the results. It's about business results. And so I think my answer to that is So many companies as they scale feel so acutely the coordination Like the compound effective coordination cost, which is really high things do slow down But I actually think one of the counters to that seems counterintuitive Which is put in some structure put in some processes Well, how does strike do that because your product cadence is like I'm paralleled given the size of company And I don't know anyone I think if you ask people internally, they would say they're we're very unsatisfied I mean compared to bunny the you know incumbent set. It's pretty incredible in terms of speed So how do you have such agility with size? Again, I think there's like Anyone that you're trying to organize whether it's three people or 20 people needs a common vocabulary What and also a common understanding? Why do we exist? What are we trying to accomplish either right now this month or in five years? And how do we want to do that work together the operating principles? I think it's straight we spend a ton of time First of all, everyone's very motivated by the why you know increasing the GDP of the internet is you know It's a very ambitious mission, right? And and then they're also understanding the what very specifically because when you deal in sort of economic infrastructure payments Very unique to different countries very detailed and rigorous work You have to do to understand what moves the needle and so we spend a ton of time in the details of the what and then We lay out sort of expectations, but we don't define how you're gonna get there sometimes And it's very interesting to watch I think the teams feel acutely this list of things to get done and then they're like Oh my gosh And we somehow have to accomplish it in this time and we don't get it all done Can I ask can we take a step back because I think you know you've created and assembled some of the best teams How do you think about talent acquisition and some of your core lessons in terms of what it takes to acquire the best talent? Do you have a process? Do you have questions that you like to ask? What are the signals that they reveal? Yeah, I think too much of the discussion often about hiring is that it's an art like some people have a talent radar And some people don't and I would just disagree there is a judgment There is as you know, say why you can't sort of put your finger on the field, right? But actually 90% of it is more science and the challenge that I find and I work with so many people who are like Well, I interviewed this person. I said well, what happened in the interview and they're like Well, I just looked at their CV and we had a great chat about their their past experiences I was like well, then they kind of interviewed you because they know more about their past experiences and they can just control that Conversation you need to go in with the plan. What is the job? I'm hiring for what are the capabilities for success in that role What are the questions? I'm going to ask what do good answers look like and you need to ask the same things of All those candidates for that role so you can build a data set and compare like that's the scientific part of it Because people that you might relate too well in an interview may not actually have the best answers And if you know what the best answers are that's what you're looking for How many people should you interview to get a large enough data set say okay? I've done my work, and I know a reasonable benchmark. So I have two answers to that. So one is Interviewing over time. I've interviewed thousands of people So I think I have a very large data set across many different positions many levels many positions And there are some commonalities that you start to see in the data No matter if you're you know going to be an icy support rep or you know the head of revenue Like I can tell you there are certain ways people answer questions that are more at the abstracted level of are they self-aware? Are they someone who learns do they strive for impact right? Those are things. I'm looking for I don't care What level you are but then in terms of a specific position? I think that's hard It depends on how much interviewing experience you've had you ever have a pen Would you ever hire the first person if they're great? You're like fantastic love them great chemistry Probably not probably not how fast unless they like blow me out of the water, and I think you know what I'd hire them for anything Which ideally is every candidate, but let's be realistic There's there's two kind of points which I think reveal quite a lot in the hiring process which is title and salary What are lessons in terms of how people respond to title and salary and maybe how it corresponds to potential ability or future success? Yeah, I mean stripe. We really stayed away. Maybe we've done it for too long from title Because I do think it's a false flag and it also backs you into a corner as you're scaling So you've suddenly given titles away, and then you're like well now I have to restructure and bring in more experience So I'm not a fan of title and people seeking title like especially if you're early You want them motivated by what you're building and what they see and the people that work there And I think the title like I'm just gonna take a job only if you give me a VP title That's that's a kind of an orange flag to me and and compensation Again depending what stage company you are if that's someone's motivator Why aren't they going to work for a big tech company that has that? That's their currency is I can pay you more, but I will say in my book I have this Talent framework that I developed which is some people are pushers and some people are pullers There's a certain talent type. I've found the pushers who are just keeping score. They're very competitive They're very driven and they're constantly bringing up their title and compensation and I used to really bother me to be honest It would really annoy me and I get it now I'm like look you're just keeping score, but you know what you can't bring it up every meeting So I'll just say here's the rules. We'll talk about it once every six months That's your shot and then otherwise Let's talk about actually what you're pushing the actual work not the results of the work Can ask how obvious is a bad hire in the process is it obvious a month in three months in six months in Do you know that there's a huge continuum of that? I think there there have been some hires I've seen and that In the end of the hiring process They start to reveal themselves and I cannot say strongly enough like somehow they realize they've got the job and their behavior changes And you're like what or the first week on the job that they're really terrible in their team spin up like they're not listening No, I'm serious or they're acting like a knower. They're like well. I already know all this I don't need to be in the training and I would say just say thank you so much. We made a mistake Like I would really walk, but that is rare. It's rare, but it happens. I think it's more in about It depending on the role earlier stage role you probably know in about a month to two months I think in a more complicated role someone with experience. It's probably three max six months. Yeah I remember Max Levchin from a firm said on our show once when there's doubt. There's no doubt You think that's right I mean, I think have people surprised you that's generous people have surprised me, but I would say it's fairly rare I mean, I hate to be the person if people follow the thinking around growth mindset You don't I'm not the person who would say the way you are is the way you are and you can't grow because that's that's not How much it would be terrible? It's not true But I think what max is talking about is something I see now I sit on a lot of boards and you listen to the CEO talk about their executive team And when they have a doubt about someone who's in a leadership role and they're sort of saying well But you know they they came into a difficult city start making excuses for them They came into a difficult situation the macro environment has been difficult and they're sort of trying to explain to themselves Why is it that I'm not confident in this person? I've now come to believe that kind of doubt There's no doubt. Yeah, no, I agree with you there Okay, so before kind of making a decision. We do need to give feedback. Yes feedback is tough to give sometimes I'm often told that you need to give a shit sandwich Which is nice shit nice And that's like the secret we chatted last night and you were like maybe not yeah, is the shit sandwich wrong? I should be the time. I think it's I think it's it is wrong. I would say that In as the manager of a person, I don't care if you've just started working together or even working together for two years Your job is to have built a relationship that exists at multiple levels So one of the levels is you have very clear expectations They know their expectations of them not in a detailed list, but they understand the role what you expect You've set goals together. They have priorities another level is you understand their development Goals you can have a career conversation within the first few months. What are you looking to do? What do you how do you want to grow? And then there's a level of like look We've got to have a dialogue about how our things are going and it's got to be open and easy And it's like easy for me to say all those things by the way Some few managers forget like you've got to set the expectations You've got to understand them and what motivates them got to manage different people differently And then you get to the work of giving feedback So let's say you've actually laid some of that foundation Starting even in your first meeting with someone. How do you how do we want to run our one-on-ones together? Why don't you come to me with a draft of your goals for this month? Whatever it is, so is it the same for every person or do you tailor it for different? I have like a lot of my operating system Which is another operating principle of mine is like come back to your operating system is I have a framework I start like literally this is how my one-on-one document is structured This is how I onboard someone into working with me and and then what I ask of them And then I adapt to them because they're gonna have differences that I adapt to but I think you want a common OS essentially, but I say all this because you can't walk in the problem is managers walk into the first time They're giving someone feedback and they're like Harry. You're doing so well at presenting at the team meeting But you didn't like get five of the last things I asked you to get done on time And anyway, thanks so much for being a great presenter You're gonna be like wait what what just happened. No, you know, I was a great meeting Yeah, you liked that because you're like well what I'm gonna take away is that I'm such a great presenter at the team meeting And I wanted you to take away you're not being accountable for your work deadlines So you'd walk in and say hey lost five things I walk in and say I want to check in on your goals right now Because I have them at the top of my dock with you and you're saying oh, this is okay I don't think I'm doing well and then I'm gonna look at you and I'm gonna say you know what I'm worried about I'm worried about the fact that all of these seem like they're delayed What do you what do you think's happening? So I'm not gonna start with you are not meeting your deadlines I'm judging you. I'm gonna ask them. I'm gonna ask you a question I'm gonna say what is going on because it feels like every single goal everything we had on the list is delayed All they and I'm gonna give you a chance to tell me and there are good reasons. Hey, I'm so sorry, you know Macro Buying slower. I lost our champion. Yeah, but you know what that is what that's being a victim No, I'm not gonna say that to you But I'll tell you like it's very interesting when you give people feedback They're either gonna be a victim and blame the every external their other team member the macro environment the customer Or they're gonna be really The people I want to hire they're gonna be really self-aware and they're gonna say well Yes, of course, there's been challenges in the environment, but what I should have done is follow up on that deal faster You say, okay, so that was number one. You didn't follow up on the deal fast enough You had other deals in the word, you know, maybe they're a salesperson a BD person You say well, tell me what else and you dig and and one of the things that I think is a great framework It's not mine is the five wise which is like well, okay So why didn't you follow up on the deal like you're trying to get at an underlying thing? that's going on with the person and by the way in this journey what you're doing is moving from being an Opposition to one another to try to sit next to each other and say let's just look at this problem together Like what do you think is going on here and maybe there's like three of the five There's actually a common pattern which just has to do with the person is like terrible at time management And they're probably getting a lot of inbound and they're just like well I'm doing the thing that feels urgent, but it's actually not that important And so you're diagnosing with them and you're saying what are you gonna do differently? This would be our first conversation. It's actually but I think it's pretty friendly and they're thinking well My manager cares about me. They're trying to help me diagnose. Why am I not meeting expectations? Do you find some people are more affronting to that conversation? I've had it before where suddenly it's like Oh, there's conflict here. Absolutely. There's people who get immediately defensive. Yeah. Yeah What do you do then to simmer just like I actually usually stop the conversation I I'll say I'll so here's the other thing is You are animals back to veterinary sciences Notice how they're reacting notice what's happening in the room notice the energy and the body language of the person you're talking to and Then this is the risky thing and then talk about it So I would stop and I would say I am noticing that it feels like you this is new information to you that you're Reacting you need to process some of what I just said like you haven't really actually thought about why you're not meeting these deadlines And they're like, yeah, I mean, I don't think this is true. You say well, I think we're seeing things differently So I'm not gonna back off. I'm not gonna say I have no feedback for you I'm gonna say I think we're seeing things differently, but I really respect that you need a minute Like should we why don't we come back tomorrow? Like why don't you take a minute think about this? I've asked you some questions Do they got better tomorrow? I mean do they hands it really depends some people actually Think about sort of introverts versus extroverts really in that framework Introverts really need to think in order to talk and extroverts often talk to think Harry, I think you're pretty extroverted But for some folks they come back the next day and they've written up quite a bit They've had to really think and they wanted to write their thoughts and they come back and they sometimes what they come back with Is quite defensive But I've now we've got a chance to read a document together and say okay So this is what you think so you do awesome to come back with a dog not everybody But some people I say it seems like you want to respond to this Why don't you write it up and share it with me so we can both process it and then have the conversation But what I'm doing when I notice the reaction is one I'm telling them they're reacting because they don't know they are often and I'm giving them an escape hatch right because It's uncomfortable if they say no no no I want to carry on now. Is that okay? Yes, if they say that I say, okay, but what I feel like is we're not actually having a conversation You're just telling me that you don't agree And I'm telling you by the way feedback is just a mirror I'm just holding up a mirror and I'm saying look I don't know what's actually going on with you But here's what I'm seeing like in my mirror of you I'm seeing a deadline problem. You do not meet your commitments and and I said and you're disagreeing with me And I say well, let's tell look look at the data about that. Here's the data I have what data do you have but I'm not judging you I think a lot of people are afraid to give feedback because they think That you're showing up at the one-on-one. I'm saying, you know what Harry? You're a bad person because you don't meet your deadlines. I'm not I don't think you're a bad person I really like you. I want to support you. I'm your manager But my job is to make sure that you know that I know that you're not meeting your deadlines And if you don't notice it We're gonna get you to notice it and you're gonna change your behavior and if you don't change your behavior You're not gonna be on the team. How long do you give them? Really depends. I mean, I think that's a whole thing. So much of this. That's why it's hard to write a man It's still kind of early. It's context if they're an early-stage employee 30 days max. Okay, so you have 30 days max Sadly, I'm coming back with some bad docs not giving good reasons and you're like gotta let him go Yep, you do how do you do it the right way? Well again, if you've done this correctly, we've had a few conversations and you've come back and I said here's and you you know If you're in a more established company might have a performance improvement plan But even if you don't you just send them an email and say here's the summary That's what we talked about you're gonna do these things you're gonna meet your deadlines for the next two weeks You've got this one project I want to see the results and I see them and as the month is going on We have our weekly one-on-one and I'm saying, you know what I'm noticing. You're not on track I just want to call that out And what's gonna happen is they're either gonna be like, you know what I'm done Like I I can't do this a conflict avoidant. Am I yeah No, I think that the more that you can empower the person to to be part of like notice their own issue and own it That's not conflict avoidant. That's actually how you really it's a negotiation. It's like here's what I see What do you see? What do we both want now most people you can manage out by saying here I'm not seeing a good stuff and if you want to own your departure You might make a choice now to leave but if you want to wait till the end of the month I'm gonna I will say I'm worried. I love the words. I'm worried. I'll say I'm worried. You're not gonna meet this Expectation of this plan we put together this month and I want you to understand that that means you you're not gonna be on the team And they're gonna say and I sometimes even say do you think this is even the right job for you? Like are you successful in a role like this and some people will introspect and then you're having a conversation about what do they really want to do and Then you have a decision to make which is should they stay at the company? Is there another role that's good for them or is this really this is the end and I think too many people sort of let The problem roll to another team so most of the time. I think it's the end Okay, so we're gonna do a quick fire around we've got two minutes two minutes Okay, so let's start with dinner with anyone dead or alive you can ask them any question. Who do you have dinner with? Yeah, Virginia Wolf, okay What are the greatest writers in multiple centuries? What would you ask? I? Would ask her how she took the inner workings of humanity in the brain and put them on a page Who's the best board member you said on a board with? You know, I have really enjoyed Being on a board with Dara Khosra Shahi who's the uber CEO. He's incredibly nice mix of empathetic, but very high bar results driven and Strategic you get operational like he can get right in the detail and then he goes right back up to big picture What's your biggest lessons from working with Patrick and John? They are so deeply curious like there is never enough Information or feedback is focused a challenge. Yes curiosity. Yeah, but that's I mean look Every every one of your greatest strengths is also your greatest weakness. What's the hardest challenge for you in terms of your always strive? That the role of the COO when I was the COO is Whatever the company needs it to be at that moment So you have to be very very good at getting out of your day-to-day and looking and saying What is the company need me to be and it's not just the company of today It's the company of a year or two years from now. What's the kindest thing anyone's ever done for you? And that's a weird one. I got asked it the other day, but I was like, it's a good one It made me reflect back that people who gave me a chance when I was yeah, oh so many people I mean, I remember Cheryl Sandberg when I was Coming back from my first maternity leave. She had just come back from hers. She said let's have lunch And I was like, oh scary Cheryl Sandberg wants to have lunch and she had lunch. She just wanted to check in How are you doing? You know what? I know it's hard It's very hard when you first come back from having a child because you're just very tired and she's like, I know it's hard, but you know what you can do it and You're gonna be fine and I thought that was very kind The other thing is if you're someone who gives a lot of your time your energy There are certain people in my life who like make sure I've had dinner And I really appreciate people who make sure that I take care of myself Final one. I think many in the audience are parents and have children but also want to be the best Operator that's founders. Yeah, what advice would you have to them in terms of being the best at both? well It's hard to be the best at both. So what you need to define is what your best is, right? I think there's a lot of judgment in the world. What does a great operator look like? What is a great parent look like forget that what is your version of success? so define it and then lay out your priorities and put some boundaries and Someone yesterday at a dinner we saw last night told me that she read something that happened to me So maybe it's a good thing to end on but which is my daughter attended a speech I gave where I got asked a question about work-life balance and I said to the questioner I said look one, you know You get the right partner in your life and that makes a big difference and the other is you decide what's important to Be there for for your kids. Maybe that's dinner three times a week Maybe that's whenever they perform or they have a soccer match or whatever it is you decide I said and then you show up for the important things And I said and that's what I tried to do and my daughter age 11 wrote me a note six months later For my birthday and said by the way, I liked your talk. You were funny and you do show up for the important things Wow, I mean, that's that's a great ending. That was feedback Listen Claire. Thank you so much for this. I've loved doing it. I'm so glad we didn't have a schedule, but this has been fantastic Thank you very thank you everyone My water