 Good afternoon, everyone. It is Thursday, April 8th at 2 p.m. This is Senate education. We apologize for the late start we had a Scheduling misunderstanding on our end as we know the house has sent us two bills. What we've been working on which is this School construction bill the other bill that they sent us is on community schools a pilot project pilot program that would now our schools to Access dollars S or dollars and put a community school director in schools to help To help really provide the the resources that so many of our students need so Not sure whose phone is ringing, but Mr. Francis if you wouldn't mind turning that off. I did. Oh, thank you. I think Going to Okay, go ahead. Sorry. We're going to start with Mr. Racine who's joining us? Okay Thanks for joining us appreciate your patience as you know, we are talking about community schools something that you're very interested in and Looking forward to hearing from you. So the floor is yours. Great. Well, thank you and For your record Doug Racine former area of agency of human services former lieutenant governor and seven term member of the the Senate Including time on the health and welfare committee with senator Lions and I also appreciate the fact that as we go into this issue H106 it seems we have a quorum of the health and welfare committee With us today as as well So I think that's that's really helpful because I see H106 as being as much a Human services issue and perhaps even more so than an education issue As I really appreciated listening in with secretary French a lot of what he said is very consistent with The thinking that is behind H106 community schools bill a couple of points that he made is we really need systems Built around around our schools and our and our students to help with the issues that are Barriers to children getting good education and he talked at the end of his remarks a lot about equal opportunity And the state's responsibility and I I think we all understand right now and see that equal opportunity is not something that exists throughout the state of Vermont and primarily children who have come from a low income Homes poverty homes with a lot of poverty and a lot of dysfunction Those are the kids who we are failing and giving an opportunity for for a good education H106 to me could be one of the most significant pieces of legislation past this year outside of the COVID legislation In that it's an opportunity to build back better Which I think is the the mantra coming out of just about everybody in state government and outside of state government as well to me it's an opportunity to make sure that We are using our schools and our human services effectively To help every child succeed and have that opportunity for the American dream that that I enjoyed Growing up, and I think most of us here have enjoyed When I was secretary of the agency of human services, it was painfully obvious to me It was probably just as obvious when I was serving in the Senate of that Poverty is related to most of the issues that the agency of human services deals with Certainly the DCF but also corrections I think it's well over 90% of those folks incarcerated do not have a high school diploma Which tells us something about the lasting some of the lasting impacts of poverty if we aren't if we aren't dealing with it But it's also the achievement gap or the opportunity gaps. I've been called both things over time We use different words at different different times But that's some that Achievement gap has existed for since we started doing or it's been recognized since we started doing standardized testing Is the case every secretary or commissioner of education talks about The need to help those kids who are living in poverty those who are The measure we use those who are eligible for free and reduced lunches But again my experience is the mental the mental health issues the achievement gap issues a lot of special End costs are are related to poverty and then later on in life substance abuse problems The the poor poor physical health our Medicaid budget Some child abuse it goes on and on and on and the way to get at prevention of a lot of these problems is to help kids Succeed in school and for kids to succeed in school. They need the supports that H106 Promises them. I don't know how much you've heard from experts about the community schools concept But it is an opportunity to bring the services That should be available the kids into the school building So they're readily accessible and Senator Campion you pointed out that I've been interested in this. I was there helping Summa Gawair as much as I possibly could Down in the Molly Stark elementary school and in your community of Bennington But building that very model Bringing in all sorts of services and she did it on her own. There wasn't anybody at the state helping her Or nobody's the then the Department of Education She was pulling it all together in a very entrepreneurial way But she recognized that kids needed a lot of a lot of additional supports if she was going to be successful in helping them get Get a good education and all of these issues have become even more Apparent and more severe With the pandemic lots of studies out there right now. I read one just the other day. They came from McKinsey, which is a large management Company that talks about the how much students have lost in their learning Since the pandemic began and it's obviously worse for those kids who are living in poverty and it takes on all the racial Issues as well that other areas of the country experience even more than we do I think there are a lot of good reasons to support this bill, which I hope you will obviously It's as I said, it's an opportunity to address the lasting impacts of poverty those things that get in the way even if President Biden is successful in reducing childhood poverty by 50% Which is an admirable goal There's still the 50% that are going to be living in poverty and those who have started in poverty I'm going to experience some of those lasting impacts of The childhood traumas that can get in the way It's an opportunity for better provision of agency of human services programs as former secretary I see this as an opportunity to bring a lot of human services programs into Into the schools where they are most needed and the programs aimed at children are by and large offered outside of the schools Well, where do you get where can you get this the children? Most easily where can you get them? It's obviously in in the schools so I see an opportunity for better provision more effectiveness of those services and Frankly more cost effectiveness of those services as well I Seeds I the vision I see in H106 is a central place for for services You know the last since last March a lot of state employees in the agency of human services, particularly in the economic services Arena have been operating out of their homes. There's no reason why they can't be operating out of their schools And when parents dropping their kids off at school picking their kids up at school Are coming to the school for teacher meetings. They could be filling out their forms and meeting with their case managers and Getting the services there particularly in rural areas where transportation is is a major issue for people to to receive services It allows us to tear down silos if you build programs or try to build programs around the children rather than for bureaucratic convenience That the school is an ideal place to bring all the various people who are involved in a child's a Child's life the parents the providers The therapists and everyone else associated bring them all together and in one place The other thing I really like about this is the the other opportunities that are ancillary But I think you have tremendous promise using our community assets our school buildings for Other services behind besides just education and as we're seeing a lot of pressure to close smaller rural schools The here's an opportunity to keep those schools open Even though the perhaps the number of students might be declining The state could actually pay rent to the schools school districts to use those buildings for the provision of Various services you cut down on the number of offices needed for that state uses in their state office buildings And instead of paying the money for the rent as as we do in a lot of those buildings We could be paying school districts as a way of keeping those those school buildings open We talk a lot about broadband and attracting young families into Vermont and live in our rural areas They aren't coming if they don't have if there aren't schools in their communities for their kids You're not going to get somebody to move into a town Even if it's got great broadband to work online all over you know Connecting with people all over the world if every morning they put their six and seven-year-old children on a school bus for an hour It's just not going to happen. So let's let's use this as an opportunity Defined more creative and entrepreneurial ways to keep our schools our small schools Viable, but it's a it's a it's an idea that works in her in the more urbanized areas of the state as well as the more rural areas It recognizes that Same time it recognizes that we've been and I think secretary French talked about this We've been providing education for essentially the same way for for several generations now It's it's not working as well as it should This is an opportunity to sort of re-envision how education is provided It's an opportunity to to be had our schools our school systems be more adaptive Not only do I have a political and government background I have a business background and I got to tell you and I think anybody's been in business knows if you aren't adapting to To changes going on around you in technology and knowledge You're not going to survive and we have not been very adaptive in how we provide Services to our children in our schools or in our in our human services services programs I Have a few suggestions on the bill which I think is a good bill as it is But I think there are a few things that could be done to make it even stronger and reflect some of the ideas that I just I just talked about One of the things that occurred to me while secretary French was talking with you was The bill is aimed at either school individual schools or school districts And you might consider make aiming this as school districts to build those kinds of systems that he was talking about That would instead of just aiming it one school with a principal as he as he knows come very recognized Can come and go over time Building it into the system of a larger administrative unit. I think would be could be an improvement in that bill and make it more likely make it more likely to succeed. He talked about multi tiered support systems. I kind of like that idea. It sounds kind of bureaucratic, but I think it reflects the reality of what is needed in our schools. The other thing I would recommend and I did with a house committee and they sort of ran out of time with crossover deadline. But I think there needs to be a very clear and specific link in this legislation to the agency of human services. As I said, I think this is primarily human services bill. We're talking about the mental health services that are needed. Some of the economic services that are needed physical health services that that kids need to succeed. Those are all in there in the scene center lines nodding your head. They're all in the Purview of the Committee on health and welfare. So I think a really clear link to that make them part of the planning process part of the grant making process. There are great opportunities there. You know, the state signs contracts every year with our our local mental health agencies, for example. There's no reason why the state couldn't write into those contracts that some of the services they are that states paying for will be provided in our school buildings Directly to to the kids in those schools, the employees of the mental health agencies could be in small schools, they could be rotating from school to school and within a district or they could in some of our larger schools, they could just be embedded Inside that school system right now, teachers who are encountering kids with some mental health issues might hear. Well, It's got to leave every Wednesday afternoon for mental health counseling down in Burlington or Rutland or Bennington or or have you Have been those services right there in the schools having that be an expectation of the contracts with our mental health agencies is one possibility, but Explore those possibilities. I think there needs to be a very clear connection and responsibility for the agency of education to be working with the agency of human services and I even have a suggestion for you. A bill that passed a couple of years ago created a director of trauma prevention and resilience development in the agency. Yes, Senator Lyons Within the secretary's office in the agency of human services and it talks about things like the responsibilities collaborate with both community and state partners, including the agency of education. It's right, you know, it's right there that That connection is envisioned in that trauma coordinator. So just in the sub be the director shall add it as another one that that that person shall coordinate within the agency of the people in the agency of education to put these plans together and help school districts realize the full potentials of our human services programs. You might also sort of a side thought here. There might even be an agency of administration link as well. If you start thinking about the possibilities of using our schools. As community hubs community centers, not just for education human services, but there's no reason why there couldn't be circuit riders out of the department of motor vehicles to help people get their licenses. In an unused room in a in a school building, they could bring their cameras and all of their computers in and provide services closer to people in Vermont, rather than having to stand in line for two hours at the department of motor vehicles in Montpelier. Another thing I think is really important and Secretary French actually mentioned this while not in response or connection with this bill. He asked that he says we're staffed okay but don't ask us to do anything new. H106 is something new when you look at what's required. They're going to put plans together. They got to put grant applications together. They've got to evaluate grant applications. They got to monitor the grants. They got to write reports. That can't be done by the Secretary of Education. I think a dedicated position would be really important. He might come back at you and say he doesn't need it. He'll fit it in. He'll figure out how to do it. Because having worked in the executive branch, that's what you that's what secretaries and commissioners here. When somebody in the legislature says can you do this without any new positions they say we were told and I was one of the way. Sure we can do it without any new positions will figure it out. It's not real and for this to work effectively if you want to this to be an effective program. I believe there needs to be a position created you can create a temporary position. This is a three year demonstration program created temporary position. But but don't just hand it to the secretary and say you figure it out because without a dedicated person on this it's not going to to be a successful. The other thing is, if I don't know who else is listening in on this but you can't put it this in legislation but that needs to be talked about. This will not happen successfully without the active leadership of our school boards, our superintendents and our principals and Senator Campion I think you know what happened. Down in Molly start it was the principal who who made this happen she was absolutely committed to making making it happen. So there definitely needs to be a way to reach out to the associations of school boards superintendents and principals to find ways to get them fully on board. So that they can make this happen because sadly, I've encountered some around the state and for many years I traveled around the state and I visited a lot of schools. I encountered a lot of administrators at least 10 years ago, who quite bluntly said these issues are not school issues. They don't they want anything to do with it. They just said we're here to teach the ABCs and what happens outside the school is outside the school is not with it not our responsibility. I once had a superintendent suggest to me that so long as the dropout rate in their school was below the state average that was acceptable. Ignoring the couple of dozen of kids who dropped out every year so well just long as the statistics are good. So that's not that's that's not the kind of leadership that we need to make something like this very effective and the last thing and I'll stop is when the bill was originally drafted to use the Education Fund. And I suggested and I think others suggested that we try to use some of the federal money that's out there right now. There's a temptation to use the Education Fund as a way of avoiding using general fund money. And that's been done a whole lot over the years and I think it's been overdone, quite frankly, and I will claim my share of credit for it because I was there when a lot of these things that were shifted. But these are, these are human services issues these are the mental health issues that kids are facing the physical health issues. The burden should not be placed on property tax payers who when they feel that kind of direct pressure or pushing school districts to cut these kinds of services so I think it's important for the legislature and the governor if you're if if this bill is to be backed on similar bills is to put the responsibility on human the agency of human services and the funding that comes through the general fund and other state taxes but not but not the property tax. So anyway I'll just end by saying I think it's great bill is very exciting I think it's a public. It creates the possibility of providing education and human services. More effectively modernize the management of these programs of our of our schools and in the bottom line will be much more effective in helping our kids achieve that promise of the American dream. I thank you for listening. All right, thank you. And if you wouldn't mind forwarding that testimony to our committee assistant that would be really helpful Senator. I'll be happy to write it because I just talk. Yes, I from notes so I will I will try to write it up as I be true to what I just said to you. Yeah, thank you. I'm wondering. So, I mean again it's a demonstration program two things are coming to my mind. And this is where Sue McGuire from Molly Stark will also be helpful. You know, how do we measure whether or not this was successful. You know we've been talking a lot about, you know, these are these are great ideas how do we look back and say, you know, we met certain certain goals whatever they might be. And then how does this not end up on the, you know, again it's a pilot program so we're trying to prove that this kind of idea works. I appreciate what you said about federal funds, but federal funds are going to quickly run out at the end of these three years so why do it if we know that there is no additional funding after three years, why go through this this process if you will, just to, I mean I feel like in a way or we set people up for disappointment. We often do that I was never a fan of demo when I was secretary I was never a fan of demonstration projects and, and pilot programs for just that reason, right, the news that if I, if I ever win the lottery. I wanted to set up what I call the year for foundation which is after three years of foundation funding and the foundations go away. Yes, help them pay for in the year four or five and six and so on. It's a fair question. First, I think there's some folks were really expert in in this concept. The House Committee heard from many of them so you could check with with some of them, but there's something called a learning policy Institute out there that has done research on this and talks about the effectiveness and has looked at the, the outcomes from these programs and other school districts, and it might be worthwhile to engage with one of them, the legislature engaged so you're doing your own independent review of this, but put somebody like this on under a small contract to, to set some parameters and that you can measure why to just to make your own determination after one or two or three years whether this has been effective. As far as funding goes. I can't I couldn't guarantee this as a former secretary, but I think the agency could actually save money by providing services in these ways. It's an opportunity. This gets into a bigger issue that I've been beating on for years as Senator Lions knows because she's listened to me. Many times talk about this, but the agency of human services is not structured and not structured and managed in an efficient way. It's managed through in silos, and every program is works in its silo. It's very effective in providing their individual services but they don't fit together very effectively. Somebody working with a reach up client, for example, does not know whether that, whether that person or that members of that person's family are receiving mental health services so they never can really are substance abuse services or there's some family member restrictions because the computers don't talk to each other we don't build our services around around individuals and families we build our services, but I could say for bureaucratic convenience. And I think there's potential for tremendous savings, and by re envisioning how we provide services and providing some of those services in our schools, and building teams around around those individuals who are receiving mental health services. I think we could be more effective and more efficient. It's not a great answer for your senator because, but no I appreciate the honestly and you know I will we'll dig into this a little bit more I'm just looking at our clock and we would love to have you continue but any pressing questions for Senator Racine or comments before we move on. I think we have about 345 at the latest to take this center alliance. I can't resist making a comment, but you know as usual, I agree with with Lieutenant Governor senator secretary, whatever. Yeah, so well, you know, and the, the reason that we put the trauma position into the secretary's office in the first place was to was to build trauma informed culture within the agency and that is one of the reasons why I actually asked the secretary today about building a trauma informed culture in schools. A very somewhat satisfactory but not completely satisfactory answer and then the other position you mentioned, which is our chief prevention officer in the office of the administration and the governor's office is is someone who does work to break down silos and so I couldn't agree with you more but we all understand that when we invest in prevention. We understand the difficulty of measuring the benefit and it takes years to do that so having a short term pilot program may not be the provide the benefit that we would like but something has to happen I think you're absolutely right something has to happen. I do have a question for you actually so it kind of a paradox, because you mentioned not using education resources, but it is a responsibility of schools to provide that human culture for students success so I know their tensions around this all the time and we hear about it all the time schools are not the place for or can't do all of the mental health and social service work that we would like and yet we demand that they pay for it so that that that's a paradox that's all. I'm not sure how much of a response to that because you don't have to know but but but but you're right. But what's happened with that x 60 is what the opponents of x 60 said at the time which is once the state gets its hands on the property tax, it will be used for other other services as well. The rise of the property is driving up our property tax which is, even though it's income based for a lot of people it's still a regressive tax, and it's a tax when the let when when state government assigns more responsibilities to our school districts. So it's doing so without taking responsibility for the tax increase that goes along with it and just shifts it to the local level. And I think we all know because we all go to our school board meetings and we all hear from our school board so constantly that they are under incredible property taxes down. And what happens is a lot of programs for low income kids get cut in in the process. So I think it's I think it's incumbent upon state government to provide the funding for those services that are really human services and I'm thinking mostly mostly in the mental health arena and and the health arena you and I understand that you know child with a toothache is not going to get to be able to learn anything that particular day and if there's a dentist that comes by the school once a week that's going to be that's going to be really helpful but that's not an education service so it is a paradox Senator I just I just feel that there needs to be some recognition that these are these are programs that should be funded through the agency of human services. So and I couldn't agree with you more, but we need to be able to integrate those without detracting from all of the community services that we're facing right now as well just a really big area of concern. It's a tough tough area most of what agency of human services and partners to deal with people in crisis we do not do a whole lot in the area of prevention. And that's especially true or the years and children's mental health services. We, you know when the child's in crisis then their services available but we haven't put a whole lot into prevention. And, you know, look at the discussion of mental health right now what's what are we talking about most is building another very expensive to build an expensive to operate state hospital for 50 or extension of it for 50 people. And that takes money away from the prevention of get people are prevention programs that keep people out of the state hospital we're always spending money on the crisis and not on the prevention so this is, it's hard to make investments Governor Snelling way back when said we don't have enough money in the budget to prevent all the problems and save all the money that prevention could could could give us but I think we need to try. That we're going to have is your closing line I'm afraid Mr Secretary because I move us along we have about 15 minutes left on this topic thanks for coming in. And I will look forward to your additional testimony. Mr Francis, Mr Glawski. Mr Nichols and Mr Robinson I am sorry that we are tight on the calendar because we have a lift for appropriations coming up at 345 with the sack, and then we are returning to s 100 and I know a number of individuals have a pre five o'clock deadline so I'm hoping we can get through everyone. If not, we will reschedule so keep that in mind as you are giving your testimony if you could give us new information. We don't need to hear anything else if you agree with Secretary Racine, but new information and concerns and edits I would say so with that Mr Francis the floor is yours. Thank you I'm going to speak for one minute only. I supported h 106 as it emerged from the house continue to support it. I think three key words are community replicability and innovation and for that reason I think a simpler bill is better the bill that the house sent to you is pretty streamlined. The goal here is to use school districts as centers of innovation in serving communities in a holistic way, and there's a lot of ways to do that in the house. We testified that the title of the bill should change from pilot to demonstration, because really what we're trying to do is induce districts to bring themselves into the community mindset much the way sent. Lieutenant Governor Racine I didn't know what to call him Lieutenant Governor Racine spoke with you about so my urging would be don't make too many changes to the bill if any let it get go into play and allow school districts to respond. Thank you. Thank you very much. Very helpful. Mr Nichols. Oh echo with Senator Racine icon Senator Racine was Senator Racine said, also, you know what Jeff said we did testimony together our organizations along with the Vermont Council special education administrators in the house said we work closely with representative James on the bill. And I sent Jeannie earlier today our shared testimony that she can share with each of you that you can look at and see you know the feedback that we gave the house and relationship to the original bill as introduced the changes they made related to that. And as Jeff said we support the bill. And again we don't think there needs to be a lot of changes. It's a demonstration project let's let it play out and see what happens and again, we think it's a step in the right direction. So Mr Nichols you do have a few suggestions that the VPA will have a few suggestions. Is that what you're saying. No I don't think we know the way it is right now we would be happy with it being implemented the way that it is right now. Okay terrific. Mr glowski. Good to see you. Thank you very much. We also support the bill as passed by the house, and I'll leave it at that thank you. Mr Robinson. Hi everybody Colin Robinson from Vermont NEA it's been a while since I've been here. So, very excited that you all are taking up this bill, we've been working with represent James since back in the fall of 2019 on this concept. Our members have been deeply engaged in trying to figure out how to support students, social emotional health for for a long time. So, there are a couple specific adjustments that we think would be useful to consider and encourage and hope that your committee would look at one is recognizing kind of zooming back. The community schools model is a national model they're about 5000 community schools across the nation, and there are specific things that have been shown to be effective and really critical for the success that that we that we know that we all want in this demonstration project. And part of that's really centering it in community. So, one that's already in the bill is having a dedicated person to do this work the community schools coordinator. One thing that was in the original bills introduced, but was streamlined out of it that we think would actually be critical to put back in is some type of site based leadership team or school based leadership team. The idea here is that that is a team of parents, students, community members, other stakeholders, local agencies that the community schools coordinator be working with to develop the plan that's going to be best for their community. I think is as Jeff Francis just pointed out, what is the part of the promise and excitement of this model is that no one community school is the same, because they are responsive to the needs of the students and communities in which they reside. And in order for community schools, director or coordinator to come up with that plan effectively and have deep community buy in both within the school building as well as outside the school building, having a site based or leadership team established that has a broad cross section of the community is really we think integral to add back in. So my written testimony has some specific recommendations about a definition and where that could be included, specifically, including it in section 3D one and a around grant uses, and ensuring that the community schools coordinator works with the team that is defined in the testimony in the development and execute execution of these demonstration pilots. So that would be the one, one very specific recommendation. The second one is about sort of a needs and asset assessment, and this is also another one of those components of the community schools model that is critical to the sort of fidelity, as well as making sure that it actually is reflective of the needs of the community. So that would be something that could also go into the use of grant funding section section 3D, and specifically one, and, and making sure that there is a needs assessment done in order, and before the sort of project. I don't want to say before the project begins, but as the project is beginning as a deep part of the planning process, as this is deployed into the school districts that are choosing to apply for this program. And so and I specifically mentioned in one D because in one in sorry D D one in D to it talks about it if you're hiring a new coordinator, but in D one it's talks about if you're kind of repurposing an existing staff person, and we still think that the planning process, this sort of needs assessment process is really critical to get it right, because if you're talking about dealing with all these complex issues that we're, we're talking about having stakeholder buy in, and having that needs assessment as a basis is really critical, however the school district is stepping into this work. So those specific recommendations are outlined in my written testimony. The final thing I want to lift up. And this is something I believe represent James spoke to and in her testimony before your committee is making sure there's, there's an equity lens brought into this obviously your committee spoken about that and other ways and in spaces, and the community nationwide has been really used as a way to make sure they're culturally relevant curriculum that issues that are impacting our BIPOC community are effectively addressed. And also, I think you heard it in other testimony is as well perhaps from represent James about also overlaying that in the actual application review process to make sure it's not just the communities that have the resources to put together really great grant application, not that they might not have great need for it, but making sure that it's also districts and schools that are interested in stepping into this exciting innovative work are able to step into it as well. So for that, I would actually encourage you to hear from the folks at voices for Vermont's children they spoke, they testified briefly in house education on this, and they had some recommendations that I think it would be good to for the committee to hear from. Finally, for more global view, New Mexico just passed a law on community schools in 2019. And obviously, you know, New Mexico and Vermont are different but there is morality in common common between the two. And there's a fellow Dave Greenberg out of New Mexico, who has been deeply involved in not only the passage of the law but also the implementation of it. And I think it might be interesting for the, the committee to hear from him he's aware of what we're doing here in Vermont. As, as you continue to work through this, and as we attended governor secretary former senator we're seeing spoke to the Learning Policy Institute is also another really really great resource. So I know we're short on time. My specific recommendations are in my written testimony, but the top lines are we're very excited about this, about this project to make sure that we're meeting the needs of all students so they can actually access their learning. But you would agree that it's just meeting the needs of students in the pilot program. Correct. Yes. Okay, so not all of our students but those that are get into this pilot program. Questions for Mr. Robinson or others before we take a pause and then move on to Mr. Giles. Okay committee. Thank you all. Thank you to our witnesses will continue on this topic and may have some of you back to answer additional questions but I think it's a bill without a doubt that this committee is is enthusiastic about and just trying to find our way in and see if maybe we might make a few suggestions before advancing it. Okay committee, let's come back a little, take a five minute break we've been at it for a while.