 Hi everybody. I'm Mark Waite. Oh go ahead John. Okay. No, no, just okay. Sorry. Great. I'm Mark Waite. This is the Jenkins documentation office hours. It's a question and answer session where we'd like to be able to ask, allow anyone to ask questions and get answers about how to create Jenkins documentation, how to deliver it, how to help it. We'll be doing these as long as there's a need. Right now the plan is about once a week and delighted to host them whenever. We do adhere to the Jenkins Code of Conduct. The Jenkins Code of Conduct means that we are expected to be respectful, kind and considerate to one another. Violations of the Code of Conduct are brought to the Jenkins Board and handled there. So please if you feel uncomfortable or uneasy about something let me know and we'll we'll worry about it and take care of it. So this is being recorded. Thanks very much. First off I was going to give an overview of materials of what I had envisioned for office hours and then we can talk about is that what you want to do or would you like to do something different for today? So I'm going to share my screen and let's look at what I've got for a draft outline. So here's what what I'd propose is oh let's put down who's attending. Here we go. So my thought is this is a question and answer session. That's our first and foremost objective here. Whatever questions you have of any sort you're welcome to ask them. You can ask them either verbally. You could submit them as changes in this document or you could ask them in chat in the session. One way or the other we want to collect them and after collecting them we'll try to answer them. I like to do examples and demonstrations so that you can see things and get a hint and we will record this so that we can use post the recording and use it later. Any questions so far? Sounds good to me too. All right okay so one question is how do I build the Jenkins site docs from source? Right it's a valid question. Another question might be can we have meetings at a different time? I suspect there are some contributors who may be in Asia others who may be in Eastern Europe or in Western Europe and we've got people who are willing to host office hours during European morning hours or during the European afternoon or the US morning or in US afternoon and even into the evening. We don't right now have anybody who is explicitly in what I might call prime Asia like Beijing or Australia who's willing to host an office hour there but we've got most of the 24 hours covered some way. Right now we're going to do them at this time and we'll adjust times as we see a need or cancel them if we don't have a lot of interest. Another question that let's see other questions what's Google season of docs? And that I assume is an interesting one because it's one way to contribute to the project. Another might be how do I get involved? Another might be what are the tools that I get involved with? Yet another might be what are the current projects that the Jenkins project is working on? What are the current documentation projects? So Jonathan and Vlad are there questions you would like to add to the list or some of these that you think would be higher priority you'd like to do those first? Well just I wanted not necessary today but in the future something that I'm interested in like getting more understanding about relationship between documentation or hosted in Jenkins IO repository and documentation for plugins. The relationship and how best practices maybe for handling that relationship based on previous experience of contributors and developers of Jenkins project. Okay so is this things like how do I decide where to place some information or how do users experience it? Tell me more about the kinds of things. Well here is just one of the use cases which emerged just today. I was working on documentation for monitoring plugins. Well update in monitoring page which is hosted by Jenkins IO and when I'm referring to those plugins documentation for plugins is hosted by Jenkins CI as I understand and when we change who is going to change documentation for specific plugins and how we manage our relationship with I guess developers who are doing development of specific plugins. Good okay so how do developers interact with with technical writers? Very good all right. All right I believe the section speaking about Google doc season it's a good beginning because I want to know how works the job and how we need to work together to to write a lot of docs that you plan to in this season. Okay so Jonathan this one is of interest to you. What is Google season docs? Great. Not about what is but about the kind of job that we realize we execute on them. Okay so tell me tell me more about that question I'm not sure I'm following it entirely so could you elaborate a little further? Yeah it's for no more about the plans for Jenkins elaborate to us we'll work together. Okay so it is it's what types of projects would be included in Google season of docs is that sort of what you're asking for? No no not a kind of projects because the website has a list with the projects right and I want to know how we work the process of the job so for example where you use the tools where how we can help with some beginnings and news commerce activities. Okay good okay so how does the Google season of docs process work how can new contributors help? Yeah exactly okay so maybe maybe then this that sounds like there's a good a good opportunity there to describe how our project ideas our projects how will the technical writer be selected selected that does Google season of docs and how our projects selected are those sort of questions that you're asking or it's amazing thank you okay good all right can I add can I add to this list also one more how mentors are selected okay yeah good all right okay any other questions around I think that's a good first set already we can dive into that together and look at them together and then have a discussion okay I agree all right so let's I think what I'm going to organize these sort of in I'm going to take a different take the how can new contributors help to towards the bottom because that one applies to anything it applies much more widely well maybe actually you know what maybe let's put that very first let's put that one very first just as it was because one of the key decisions is in choosing which who the technical writer is that would be selected for Google season of docs is how are they interacting with the community already so let's talk about how can new contributors help first and then we'll go into others so new contributors can help in the with what we'd call friendly issues and you can find friendly issues on github I'll link to them let's go to github jankins.io here in the issues list and if we look at issues that are good first issue and I'll embed this link into that document so that we've all got it so if we go here choose an issue sign it to yourself start work ask questions submit a poll request and work with the reviewers with reviewers so that that one there applies to anyone whether in google season of docs or elsewhere the you can always pick up a friendly issue and work on it now as part of the hack fest coming up may 25th you're going to be focusing on user experience and a significant portion of the user experience is documentation so documentation as a key part of the user experience and you can join the join the hack fest sessions that will start the may 25 through 29 any questions on how to contribute at the high level no it's okay it's a normal process just like I have a question mark about this hack fest which is coming on May 25 is it the proper time to ask this question this this is a great type to ask please go ahead so this hack fest will be related to yaks are we going to discuss like there will be sessions discussing just user documentation or also the process of building documentation automating this documentation and how it is related to general builds of Jenkins IO and so on there there will be a session session presented by me on contributing to docs and it will include a demonstration of of tools techniques etc thank you in addition we've got the google season of docs project ideas is now project ideas are an important concept of the google season of docs process they are not a project plan yet a project idea is a concept that someone in the community proposes that then a technical writer will refine that that idea or their own idea and submit it submit something that becomes their proposed plan and that's the thing that google season of docs will then evaluate is the plan the ideas are just concepts or topics that might be considered so don't don't mistake that oh because there's this this idea out there that oh there there's a whole bunch on it or that I have to do exactly that no you're welcome to explore further you're welcome to do propose something different all all are valid so here's the link to the google season of docs page and you see the the project ideas they include things like migrating from the wiki document Jenkins on kubernetes lots and lots of interest for Jenkins on kubernetes but not nearly enough documentation on Jenkins on kubernetes reorganize the existing documentation set create new pages for use cases sorry was there a question yeah hello go ahead yeah so basically for me I mean I mean you come mine to software is the open source contribution so getting started for me is kind of challenging though I've been able to clone the document of the repo motor starts has been kind of easy for me I've gone through every of the document but I still know well I'll explain for me to get started so I don't know if there's any help anyone can render for me on how to do it there there certainly is and so let me put a different topic here is how about where can I find help okay yeah I think that's that's actually great I know a lot of guys out there are kind of stock like I'm I'm present sure so that's the Jenkins Jenkins docs getter channel as people that listen that watch it periodically and try to help out so let's go there and we're going to grab a link to that and I'll just paste it there you can ask questions directly in this getter channel and about once a day at least at least once a day I'll be on there others are on there off and on and that's a great place to ask a question thank you for that another is the Jenkins docs mailing list in okay yeah and that you'll find here in google groups under Jenkins documentation and again it has a number of users and those people tend to help each other so that's a good place to ask questions as well all right anything else thank you okay so we've talked through how can new contributors help if you've got no other questions on that let's talk some other topics like how will technical writers be selected for google season of docs and in order to get to that one I think we've got to go to the overview and timeline and talk about the the what things are happening and when they are happening so what I'd say is let's open up overview here and make it bigger so that I can read it all right so google season of docs is an opportunity for technical writers to come together with open source projects to help improve the open source projects documentation so the assumption is you've got some technical writing experience the idea is you'll spend a few months working closely with a community to bring your skills to help the project's documentation and at the same time you learn about that open source project and about some new technologies so the technologies we're using for documentation in our case are centered around the github workflow pull requests ascii doc and a site that's generated programmatically so now in terms of what happens the the season of docs program organizations like jankins apply to be mentor organizations with project ideas we've done that we've been accepted as a mentor organization then technical writers explore the organizations and choose projects that interest them and then you write up a project proposal and submit it to google season of docs notice that this is not me writing it up it's you so the writers who want to be in google season of docs submit their proposal and then the organization selects the projects they would like to mentor the technical writer when they're accepted spends time working with them to complete the project and then at the end of the program it's announced success or failure etc questions on that high-level picture yeah i have a question about this topic i can speak her yes yeah all right so the main idea is i'm as a technical writer i build a plan propose a project proposal sent to you and if it's selected we start to work with right but uh i don't know about the jankins necessity so for example in those google seasons uh website i see there we have a a plugin documentation and update necessity to be great a uh from the old wiki i i know i guess and from the new one in kitchen right this is on the proposed plan right so uh how can i uh know what is the necessity for work on this because it's my first time time interact with janks so i needed some hints to build my my project propose right good that's a very reasonable question so i think jonathan i think what you're asking is how can i as a new arrival on on this thing jakeens possibly propose a plan when i don't yet understand the details right yeah that's the point yeah all right you're very good i i you certainly don't know how to do any of the things that are described here or may not yet because you may not have done any work with the jankins project documentation it's perfect yeah perfect yeah i don't know how to do this yeah i'll possibly give you a plan and the answer is embedded in the timeline so so it's very very good you hit you hit it very well uh the timeline will take us through how we get you to that knowledge before you submit your plan nice okay so what we do is we're now at may the 18th so we are in this period here where we're in what's called technical writer exploration this period lasts until june 8th this period is where you discuss project ideas with mentoring organizations and learn that have the technical experiences you need so that you can create a good plan so during this phase i expect that you will be submitting poll requests you'll be reviewing documentation you'll be experimenting with jankins you'll be finding problems and asking questions about those problems that this is a very active phase for you so that you can learn what what the components of a good plan would be and so that you understand so the general say things in your plan that the people reviewing the plan look at and say that is outrageous it won't help anyone to say to say that so so the idea is you in this period between now and the 8th of june enter into discussions and the discussions are typically done by proposing changes you pick a wiki page and you transform it into jankins.io or you help with some project on a change of one sort or another you pick a bug report and fix that bug and the process of you doing that work will give you the experience you need so that you can enter into this technical writer application period and be ready to then let's see so now so technical writer applic oh yeah so june 8th to june 9 so to so beginning june 9 starts the application period you have then one month to prepare your proposal in that month you continue contributing you continue exploring you continue looking at different aspects of the project plan that you're going to propose and as you do that your abilities increase and you're able to give a better plan so that when we get to this july 9 deadline for applications you've got a good plan that you're ready to submit for as an application. I get the idea but it's possible for example you or everyone that have more experience with Jenkins and make a bunch or a collection of uh uh beginning stacks that tasks for example I saw in the github there is a label called new commerce issues for example uh but uh I don't know what I can pick or not because I know how to use ask docs mark down a github work process workflow but I need a point to start because there is a lot of links a lot of dots for to read and I need a start point all right very good and and that's go ahead yeah hello yes um yeah like well mr do not learn actually said there's this part when I actually cloned the projects I forked it and I have the rep on my own account so I went through the doc so I was kind of lost I don't even know where to get started from so now I had to go back to github going back to github I went to issues so I see a lot of issues on the air but I still don't know okay where am I going to start from even viewing every of the issues that is here so I think that's one of the things we need to break down so that okay as a newcomer if I'm coming for the first time I should be able to know that okay the first step is for me to get the rep or on my own local mansion then from there I proceed from the okay writing a proposal it dies the next thing to do and leave that is not the next thing to do I should be able to know the next thing in line for me to actually do so that I will be able to contribute to the success of the project great so I think I think what you what you what I would recommend is that you go to the the list of issues let's see if I can find my issues here okay so this is jenkin the jenkins.io websites github repository issues and then here under label so your first issue and you could choose one of these and the technique you use is you read it and say hey is this is this topic interesting to me if it is interesting to you you could assign it to yourself by clicking this assign yourself link that I'm hovered over that's saying I'm going to assign myself if you then choose not to assign it you could give it back so it's okay and and this is your chance to say okay I'm going to try this now you might say oh that that is not the issue I want to work on then you unassign it okay now as part of working on that issue you'll learn many many things as you how do I fork the repository how do I submit a pull request how do I update my local repository all very good and useful things to learn and you'll have helped the project as well yeah thank you so the good first issue it's a tag so we begin it's a good one point to start using this label right nice thank you well and and this the good first issue label is still evolving we've got the six right now that are open by the time we start the hackfix fest next week I expect to have double or triple that number available this these issues that you see here have been created by my looking at um the wiki pages to see which ones need to be translated and many of these are related to that or some other piece of the project's needs if if as an example you're interested in maybe you're interested in writing code that is related to the building of the site then this one this author macro lets you get involved in ASCII doc generation the process of converting ASCII doc into the web pages you may say no no I want to do something different but this is a is one topic another might be oh I'm interested in the ways that that the Jenkins project uses artwork this one is a good choice for artwork there are many different places you can contribute and any one of them will give you experience in the workflow and cause help you discover problems or things that should be better described or should be help you should be yeah should be described better so that you can contribute more effectively another point mark for sample one of the issues it's immigrated linux installation guides to Jenkins.io for sample here we have the checkbox with the tasks right but there is some kind of sample to guide us beyond the creation page for sample a how can I say a a guide a model to to to allow us to know how to what I can write and format the page this things like that or not that's a very good question so so there certainly are what what this particular type of issue report is structured to do is trying to tell us we want to convert from the old thing this page here the Jenkins on red hat wiki page oh yeah this is the old thing and wait patiently it takes forever to load so but you see here's the look the old thing where it says ah this is how I install configure with some important notes that are glaringly absent this the install instructions I've migrated myself but this piece is missing so it's one of those oh okay how would we say that so that's the from now here's the two so this is the destination and here you see the destination is this page on Jenkins.io where we're trying to put it I guess yeah now as the as the really cool secret where but where is this page in the source code right because it's it's all lovely that I can see it on Jenkins.io but I can't edit it right on Jenkins.io I have to find the source code if I jump to the bottom of this page all the way scroll down to the bottom oh well this is taking a long time there down at the very bottom of this page there's this link improve this page if I click that link improve this page it will take me right into GitHub now I know exactly the page to modify even if I do nothing with this page I have found the page to change yeah and so my first action is oh cancel I don't I don't want to edit it here because I have I have a really good editor actually my good editor will do things much better than this so okay but that gives me a chance okay so so the the power of that technique is ah there there are already tools that will let me find this now if while you're reading and certainly you'll be reading you may realize oh here's this mistake on this page well notice here this hyperlink report a problem if I click on any page so let's let's choose a different page this time we're going to choose the using Jenkins page on credentials and I found a problem here I click report a problem and it will put me right into the creation process for a brand new GitHub issue so so again it's simple simplified for my benefit so that it's easy for me to submit a bug report now I'm not going to submit this bug report all right okay just another another another question about the stock yet for sample we are migrating all the data from to to destiny and there is a a step of installations right we need to replay reproduce all steps steps by steps and put screenshots for sample will make some videos oh no it's just next to one well so we we are delighted to have screenshots we have a few videos we typically tend to host our videos on youtube and right a reference to the video into our pages the the it's most common you'll find that most of the documentation is very heavy on words with relatively few screenshots and even fewer videos okay it's one of the one of the problems is many of us do not have great screen presence you look at me I'm balding almost 60 years old etc it's my report right that's a good way to say it that was a very delicate way to say it Jonathan very good not saying mark isn't a particularly pretty person to look at but rather the content is more important that's a good way to say it yeah hello yeah I was just thinking along when you were explaining every of these things okay let's say for instance the process we have on the wiki page which is the old version of the documentation right so and we are trying to migrate it to the jackings.io which is the current one we are working on so I'm thinking what if the process that is in the old version which is in the wiki page there's a kind of breakage like something breaks maybe the installation of the one you have on wiki page is the old version of package so how do we know as a technical writer how do we know the ones you put in the current page so one way is to assume that what's written on the wiki is correct and place it into the new page and then allow the code review process to tell you that oh that's not not right that's that's certainly one way to do it the other is try it yourself if you have access to a to the the right computer you should by all means try to do what the thing is that you're documenting okay now many many users you may say oh all I have is windows and this is describing linux or all I have is macOS and this is describing windows and so many times you may have to write without being able to experience everything that's described in the document okay like you experiment yourself correct right so yeah but you can you can also be comfortable and confident that there are others who will review the documentation that you're proposing and will give you feedback on it now it at least for me I find it I find it I would like the original submitter to have done the work that I think they could do so for instance if you write something and it's clear that you you had access to something that could test it and you never tested it I find that not as helpful if you can test it you should test it correct mark may I ask a couple questions related to uh well uh first of all there is documentation on jenkins.io about the projects which are part of hacker fest which will start in one week are those projects or ideas and this is the question related to time frame because when we looked at google uh doc about gsod the time frame for selecting projects and the melting projects was middle of august and our page tells that this project already we have several projects for documentation so are those projects or ideas and just so to use this precise terminology that google season of docs uses there isn't any google season of docs project uh accepted yet for the jenkins for for jenkins there are project ideas and the ideas are offered to our writer candidates as possible possibilities they might consider but none of them are projects in the sense of a google season of docs projects are selected by the organization administrators and the mentors during this during this selection phase here july 9 through july 31 so did that answer your question blad yes let me reiterate so those are in our terminology just ideas not yet projects they haven't materialized into the projects that is correct so these and and i like that phrasing that's a very good way to phrase it let's drop the word project these are just ideas or concepts that have been tossed out as clear needs by people who are participants in the jenkins project and in jenkins but they are not staffed they are not in any condition of permanent ongoing effort people in the prod in the in jenkins make progress on them when they feel like it and they don't make progress on them when they don't feel like it and well next question which comes out of this answer uh when in case some of those projects will be stuffed how people participating in discussion and contributing in ideas will kind of participate in actual projects not ideas and how uh like the question about the sponsorship maybe or are those based on just volunteering work or is it some kind of compensation for this work in terms of minor compensation good good question so the the i believe google season of docs has a compensation portion although i have not done the research on it so let's take a quick look at it and see if we can find that just a moment uh because i i know google summer of code with the university students that runs just over the summertime does in fact compensate the contributors it compensates the students let me double check this i think let's see google season of docs google season of docs uh paint maybe is a good word technical writer stipends here we go good okay okay so google uses pioneer to pay a stipend to technical writers who successfully complete season of docs it is a single stipend single payment paid at the end of documentation development the amounts are calculated based on home location and we can and here they say base amount of 6000 us dollars and then adjusted to each based on each country's purchasing power parity so minimum 2400 us dollars maximum 6600 and this in case if contributors will be selected as technical writers this kind of payment and in case if this idea will be materialized in the project and it will be selected by google groups you are correct so so this stipend is only paid after successful completion and it's after development is complete yeah good question i had not done the research so thanks for letting me learn with you and uh on mentoring i know that uh jenkins project jenkins project organization had be selected as mentor organization but individual mentors uh those maybe not necessary technical writers they may be as i understand uh software engineers programmers or just regular people willing to help who have some experience and is there any kind of compensation for that quite category of people for mentors i don't believe there is i'm not aware of any compensation for mentors uh it's it's as far as i know entirely part of the it's just assumed that they're part of the project and therefore google season of docs definitely has no contribution comp no payment to mentors and i see nothing here on season of docs either so mentors are not compensated and to just for precision the mentors in general will not be technical writers because we don't have many we don't have any dedicated technical writers that that's all they do on the project what we have are people like me let's see 15 years as a manager in technology some years as a programmer etc but and i speak english but that's about the limits right calling me a technical writer is i've i've created training i've presented training but i'm not a technical writer i'm happy to write i write because it helps uh so did that answer your question glad absolutely yes great and um i'm not sure is it related to not just general questions do you want to go through our agenda first and well i'm actually fine with questions go ahead and ask your question and we'll go back to the agenda to be sure we're okay mm-hmm just a general question about the hosting of jenkins io documentation is hosted on azure right now and we're trying to be great to one of public cloud providers or is it misconception maybe good good question so let's let's put let me put that in so um where where is jenkins.io hosted and what's the plan future plan right so um the jenkins project is a community effort right infrastructure is donated is donated uh the continuous delivery foundation uh provides funds for a portion of the infrastructure uh amazon provides funds provides uh credits for a portion um for the three years prior to up until december of 2019 microsoft azure provided credits through december 2019 uh and so those those donors and we have hope that someday google will provide or maybe ibm cloud so donors provide the infrastructure currently uh azure is the host for jenkins.io at the moment uh and for ci.jenkins.io the master aws hosts ci.jenkins.io agents and we may move things around based on who's willing to fund us and how they're willing to fund us and uh thank you very much for answering and also related to this question about creating accounts on those public providers are those accounts donated by those corresponding applications and uh in case if contributors or mentors or technical right well some people contribute into the jenkins project would like to test uh hosting deployment or there's documentation on specific uh cloud provider how can they proceed without having an account or should they have a card so how does a how does a contributor request compute capacity right for for or request capacity for compute disk etc is that a fair way to state state your question yes okay so the the first preference is prefer to use existing infrastructure like ti.jenkins.io that gives us access to linux windows uh s390x for those who know mainframes power pc and rm64 and it's run on a jenkins server now if you say oh i need to do interactive experimenting with this thing then the next is prefer to use your own workstation your own computer because if your machine won't run it it probably is broken for someone else that's that's correct assumption yeah so if if none of those work we'll need to discuss further because right now we don't have we we don't have a way to generally lend out capacity to share capacity infrastructure capacity without becoming an infrastructure administrator and i'm hesitant to give anybody in for admin capabilities that doesn't absolutely require it we've had we've had one too many places where people used some unsecured jenkins instance on the public internet to crypto mine to go go computing bitcoin or something and we'd rather not have that our infrastructure used that way yeah absolutely and uh thank you for clarifying this and if you don't mind one more question uh until like i didn't forget it uh so if contributors for instance are providing new recommendation making the build and creating full request and this is uh uh merge approved for instance this is the start of the process uh when the actual result of this full request we can see on jenkins.io site so i guess it is the question about when we can how this contribution will result in the actual build which will be deployed to the hosting site yeah so immediately it's you should expect that well in fact i had it just today jenkins 2.237 was released this morning and the jenkins changelog for that release had not yet been published i published it and 30 or 45 minutes later or i i merged the pull request on jenkins.io 30 or 45 minutes later and it was visible on the actual production site thank you it's it's part of the why it's not instantaneous is we have a content delivery network um provided donated by fastly uh that um accelerates delivery to users by cashing right and because of the cashing cashing sometimes delays visibility of new changes and and it just fastly does a wonderful job of cashing for us we've been really pleased their donation is much appreciated okay thanks all right so any others i'm going to grab that those answers because we touched on those in the session already any other questions that you have i've got we've got about five minutes left before we would end our hour well just a related question maybe nobody else question just to continue our discussion uh when uh we can we contribute to the code to the documentation it's merged uh immediately this result we can see on jenkins.io uh how it is related to and jenkins.io i guess is the part of their product documentation goes with the product i guess right how it is related with the actual long-term builds and weekly builds and uh how permanent is this change and how long it will leave so i'm not sure i'm understanding the question so is your question how how how does documentation get associated to a specific long-term support release or a specific weekly release right so for instance there are certain versions of the product which are published on jenkins.io and how the documentation is related to this version of the product uh and another question there is also jenkins to owe documentation and how this is related to our documentation as well okay so maybe maybe i'll use this as an excuse to give a quick overview of of first the the static website is describing the current release so we don't have uh we we do not have historical copies or or choose your version style documentation it's always describing current release thank you um however jenkins and its plugins bundle help inside themselves inside their binary and and those binaries that help exactly matches a running version mm-hmm and and therefore the static website can describe only one version it's the current version but the jenkins that i am executing describes the version that is i am executing precisely that version mm-hmm so so the example for me is if i look at my my jenkin server that's here on in my environment when i look here at um let's pick something that needs help how about i've got a failing test a failing job on the jenkins get client oh i don't how about an unstable one here's one this thing is has some tests that are failing and if i want to know something about it i can find when i click oh i need to pick a different job let's pick this one i click this one when i click configure it's going to bring up a panel with a bunch of question marks on it for help mm-hmm like this little question why just went off screen now we have to shrink the jenkin user interface is getting work and this is a hint why see this question mark over here on the right yes that is help that is built directly into the product and is tied is exactly with that version of the plugin mm-hmm so that online help tells me precisely what this version is able to do mm-hmm did that did that assist yes absolutely all right so we will do this again next week i will stop the session now and post a copy of the recording thanks very much for your time look forward to see you on the getter channel remember that the getter channel is here it's called jenkin ci slash docs and i'll send each of you a copy of the notes so that you've got a link to them thank you thank you thanks very much thank you so much yeah it was very very useful thank you for your help all right have a lovely day and we'll talk to you in a week