 Welcome back, everyone. I think because of the special sound meeting at Fobrits, it's like, we never stopped meeting, but we did a little bit, but it's good to see everybody. And I'd like to introduce our newest member, Michael Wernan. Hi. Michael, why don't you say a little bit about yourself, and then we'll go around and introduce ourselves. We didn't have enough to do on Monday, so anyone say that. That's why we're all friends. Welcome. Oh, thank you. I'm a bit of a nerd for policy and official functions and things like that. Counted once, I did at least three copies of Robert's Rules of Order at home on different bookshelves. I don't know. I like the scrutinizing minutiae. And I understand that. You have already hit the ground running because you've already met with the finance budgets, financial budget working group. So that's great. Be careful, he's got a story. Well, let's go around the room. I think you know many of us, but not all of us. And if we could just tell us their names, what precinct we represent. I am Christine Dutchler. I'm the chair. As you know, and I represent precinct 19. Let's go this way, Josh. Josh LaBelle, precinct eight. I am precinct 15. The encarming precinct 20. Michael Ruderman, precinct nine. Charlie Fosker, precinct 10. Dave McKenna, precinct 21. So familiar. So at large for precinct four. Greg Gibby and floating. I think it's nine. I think you're 18. I think you're 18. You're 18. You're 18 now. Yeah, I think you're 18. Still floating. Peggy Bliss, 16. Allen Jones, 14. Carol Hammons, 12. Rebecca Geffen, 27. Annie LeBart for some 13. Tara, secretary, but I do live in 17. And we have Jordan, who is on Zoom. And Carolyn, right, just walked in. Carolyn, introducing ourselves. What parallel precinct can you represent? Six. All right. So I'm very happy to introduce our new member. Up until a week ago or so, we've had a full complement of 21. Unfortunately, I have to say that Shane Blundell has resigned reluctantly. He got a new job. He just picked me from consuming all of his time. And I think, you know, I understand that situation. I made him promise that once his job settles down, he might consider coming back when he gets into a routine. I don't think their job's going to settle down. You know, what is the next job? The liaison for state executive office of Health and Human Services. Oh, yeah, no, that's not... He has a deep logon aspect. Yes. So I can fully understand. And he got that job in the fall and continued to help out with the concept. And finally, I said, so that is a loss, but we have gained Michael Rubin. So that is it. So the game pan for tonight, we will, first of all, we'll review and approve the minutes of the last two meetings that we had in October. Then I want to spend a few minutes talking about scheduling, with next few weeks, few months. And if we have anybody who can update us on any off-season efforts, any work endurance, any liaison's, having information for us. And then I think we have some budgets tonight. So that is fabulous. I really appreciate people getting those budgets ready from the get-go. Before we start with minutes, I will make one plug for those people who have not yet completed ethics training. I see heads avoiding my eyes right now. Oh, what are you talking about? I know exactly now who has done it. And I saw when they did it Friday night. So complete it. And Tara, you will be tasked with that. And I'm going to have Tara tell me who has not done them. And I'll set it up by the individual if you have a, sorry, you haven't completed them within the next two weeks. All right, so with that, I guess it's minutes, right? Yes, so first time because October 5th was completely remote, where we were talking about special town meeting. Was that completely remote? Yes. I think this was. Oh, no, yeah, okay. Some people were, yeah, so, okay, it's a hybrid. Okay, so that'll be one thing to update. Is everyone half the minutes? Has anyone seen, other than noting that it was a hybrid? I don't know. I don't know. See, other than noting that it was a hybrid meeting, does anyone have any corrections to the minutes of October 5th? Tara, can you tell me if I participated in that meeting? I don't remember. Yes, you were there. It's just come back. This was the Thursday night. Any, I don't see anyone raising their hand for corrections. Is there a motion to approve the minutes of October 5th? So, since seconded, all right, all papers say aye. All opposed. Any abstentions? Micro, one abstention. So it's 3, 4, 3, 13, 4, 0, 1, 1, abstention. I abstained as well, I was afraid. Yep, all right. Go for it too. All right, next is. The 17th. And this was in the town manager conference room. That right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I don't think so. Before special time meeting? It was before special time meeting. Yeah, yeah. So was the other one actually at the special time meeting? Or at the, I think it was here. OK, all right. Being clear. All right. Any corrections, revisions to the minutes of October 17th? Is there a motion to approve? So moved. Second? Second. All in favor raise your hand. 13. 13. Any opposing? And abstentions. All right. So the minutes are completed. All right. Schedulant. First of all, everyone could plan. We have 10. And calm meetings every Monday. And Wednesday. Until. We finish. Except we won't be meeting on president's day. Monday the 19th. I think right now we're going to. I think we should plan that the default will be in person meetings. Unless otherwise announced. For example, if we have a snow day. Or for whatever reason. Maybe we have people presenting who. Can't. Get their group all in. I'll figure that out. But the default will be. In person meetings here Mondays and Wednesdays. If there is a day when we don't have enough on an agenda. To make it worthwhile to meet. I will cancel that meeting. But I will let everyone know ahead of time. The other thing about scheduling. I would like to complete our work. By. Monday, March 25th. I would like to have all of everything voted on. Buttoned up by then all the presentations, all the buckets done. So that. Al Jones and Tara and I can start working on the report. And I might leave. Maybe April. Wednesday, April 3rd as a back update. To. But then making up that makes the button up. We have to reload something. Maybe we'll do it that. But I really would like everyone to strive to have all of their budgets done and presented. By the 25th. Okay. So the 19th. Because of the insurance really doesn't come in until then. So we need to plan on having health insurance be. One of the last two days. Right. So, right. So. For those of you who do have those budgets that. You really do have to wait. I want to make sure that they're done as soon as. Soon after you can do them. But I want all the other budgets done before then. So that we can dedicate. Those meetings to things that can't be done. Sooner than that. Okay. Also. Let's see. Capital planning is coming in on Wednesday, March 6th. So mark your calendar for that. And then it will be coming in on Monday, March 11th. So. Those things we know. We've already said. No. So I'm going to ask. The. The schools working group to try to get. The schools and. Yeah. 18th or the 20th. March. That's possible. Last year we had them in on like the 21st. Capital planning. Capital planning is in on March 6th. And men and men is in on March 1st. The other group we need to schedule is. Community preservation apps. Which last year I recall was someone. A short getting them to respond. So. We might just give them a date. And tell them. You can tell them. So you and I can talk about that. Okay. Al Tossi is going has agreed to be our warrant review. Officer. And for Michael, what that means is when we get the draft warrant. Al Tossi will look through it and see. Which ones we typically. Which ones we always. Have a meeting. To discuss and which warrant articles we might want to consider. Having proponents and to discuss with us. And then. And reschedule those. So he will take the first crack at that. Not work with Alan on that. So as soon as. We have a draft warrant. We'll get those up to you. Anything else that's scheduling any questions people have. Everyone knows that Tom meeting is starting. Later. Day later. Today's later this year. Thanks. So I don't know when that. How that works out to an artwork. But I want to work on that. So I don't know when that. How that works out to an artwork. But I want to work on that. Soon. Sooner. Which is a big reason why I want us to finish our work on. All right. That is all. Thank you. Working groups and liaisons. A couple of people already have been acting as liaisons. And I just want to confirm that. You'll continue to do that. The season like first one is arts. Culture. You're on board with that. Sophie, you have been working with the disability. Are you still. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm. Pushing that they actually request more money. So just as a warning. No machines. No machines. Not yet. Have you. Do you know if the more advice group has talked to the capital planning committee? I'll ask them. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. You know that answer. Darrell. Michael Darrell is our capital planning committee liaison. Designate. And do you know if water bodies has. Has. No. Okay. We have our department. Person. Is out on our leave. So. That sort of. Change that is a bit. But. It's a, it's a very active volunteer group. Are. Are they looking for money? Capital money for this year? Not. No. Okay. I think the last. Right. The plan is already. Yes. Exactly. Last year's discussion. As I recall, there were suggestions that they. Pursue capital. Funding. Or. These people project. Taking down the road. So. Well, have them in. And Carolyn, maybe you can. Be in charge of. Shepherding. And earlier. Sure. You figure out when. They'll be. As soon as they'll be available. Come with us. Okay. Good. I ask where the articles of the warrant come from that have to do with. Uh, business functioning of the town, like. Bar with authority and. The stuff like that is more managerial than actual. Want some requests. These are, those are things that are. Every. Every. They come from us. I think it's. I think it's. I think it's. I think it's more of a. Every. Every. They come from us. Okay. No, the town manager. I believe the only people will have the right to a certain article. Automatically. Or the select. Or the area in this. Child finance committee. City. Child finance. Great. Okay. You don't do. It's a town. What can I just. My Michael. So. So. Um, administrative. Barling. Well, it will go in as a standard article. But it will get wrapped into the capital planning. Presentation. When they come through. They ask us to vote on three things. The first is the capital budget in the second bar. So get reviewed there. Um. Last year. The junior high school kids. Yeah. Um, If you remember, they had that, um, they came to us and asked for money. And everyone's surprised, including us. We said yes. And they are very nice. But we made it made it contingent that they were going to report back to us. Um, this couple of people, probably people who are involved with that group want to follow up with them. So. Who's, who's fallen here? I had one of them. I had one of the clients in my living room. Most weekends. It's really not a hard thing to follow up on. So you'll let us know whether or not we need to beat them all about pen shoulders. Okay. And some are freshmen and some. They're all freshmen. Well, there was one that was, was a year younger. So she's still in eighth grade, but maybe she's dropped off and it's not working on something. But it would also have been on. Either Charlotte or. The teacher. Right. Yeah. The teacher or the, the DBW stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think my responsibility was Charlotte's. And the money wasn't such a spent. Yes. Only until the direction. Right. So. Um, Yeah. Yeah. All right. So maybe there's also an email to. Yeah. Ms. Miller to say, did this happen? Yeah. So if. You know, I'm happy to central. From that side. That'd be great. Everything. I just thought about. I expected. Yeah. I know. All right. So. And Annie will follow up on that. Yeah. You know, I actually did just thought about it. I drive for another one of the performance to school every morning. So I'm going to hit them with it tomorrow morning. It's going to be great. Don't mess up with their presentation. They didn't eat. Yeah. Let's give them. Um. I apologize. I forgot. What did the older ones ask for? $5,000. For 14 restaurants. Would participate in a 12 month. Pilot on. Composting with one of the. Companies that already works and now. Um, to demonstrate that it was a valid. Process that more of the restaurants. She participated. And I asked kickstand and she said, we already do that. So we were not going to be one of the people they asked. shop's already doing it, trying to convince others. It's a good awareness reading campaign. All right, so thank you, Dane, and thank you, Annie. I know the TPW people are going to do some research into our motor vehicle equipment repair division, but none of them, none of them are fixed. I don't thank Jordan. Jordan, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. So I spoke with Jennifer last week, and we're scheduled to meet with DPW, which I think next, not this Friday, but the following Friday, so we're going to discuss a few things with them. All right. All right, keep us posted. Anything else anyone is working on that I left off? All right, well, with that, I think we have some budgets to go through. So as an educational point for Michael and also reminder for everyone else, we have what we call the John Alex rule, which means it is on you all to look at the budgets before they're presented and get your questions to that working group responsible for that. So for example, Darrell and John are working on police fire and instructional services. So it's on you to look at those budgets and get them your questions so that when they come to present their budget, they have answers to your questions. The point being, we want to avoid Darrell presenting Darrell and John presenting and then having questions that they can't answer. And we can't vote on that budget. We have to delay it. So tonight, we have some budgets that maybe people weren't prepared to work into. So I'll feel a bit more tolerance if people have questions. And we also have some time and I think that the people who are presenting the budgets won't probably know the answer anyway, but they can probably get answers to the questions that they can find from the next ones. But from here on forward, you've got to look at the budgets and get your questions to whoever is responsible for those budgets. And those knows who are getting those questions try to get the answers ready. So so again, trying to avoid having to postpone voting on a budget so that somebody can get answers. Now, having said that, there will be some important questions that come up and some issues that legitimately we should postpone the budget. So we get that each. But whenever possible, get your questions in and try to be efficient and meet that March 25th deadline. Can you try and post in the agendas maybe out a week or so what what budgets might be coming up? What I would like to do is at the end of the very meeting, I'm going to ask people who will who expects to have budgets ready. I know now right there, you are thinking of Monday or next Wednesday or Monday, we should be able to please fire inspections. And those are big budgets. So take a look at them. And before we break tonight, I'll ask anyone else and budgets. Can I just add something? I also have a tracker. And so in the tracker, there's like a schedule. So as we know about things that are coming up, I am adding it to the schedule. We wouldn't put it on the agenda because then if we handle it on it or we're stuck with it. Yeah. Great. If a budget comes up and we can handle, I've got to handle it better than say, oh, we can't so it's close to Charlie. I'm chair. Are you asked the town manager to be prepared to talk about the $600,000 shortfall? Yes. Yes. I'm actually meeting with him tomorrow. And we all it's a good reminder that on Wednesday that time manager talks to us about his proposed budget, the current long range plan and any other issues. So I expected that will take up typically takes up most of the meeting. So so take a look at the long range plan and come with your questions to the town manager. This is the opportunity. Right. Thank you very much. Well, did you have a burn date on that? So the insurance numbers matter for the infamous water and sewer budget as well. And I am a little concerned about the because they get the insurance number, but I don't get the changes until, you know, five days later or something unlucky. So what day is that that they're saying saying that they're going to have the numbers in March? Yeah, no, firmly. Yeah. And but but I am picking up the lead on that. And I didn't know you needed numbers so fast. So let me make a note that I have to make sure I or Aaron or Alex get your number. Sure. What am I supposed to? I don't think you're supposed to do anything. I think that comes from someone else. Alex or well, whoever's in or handling. OK, I'll tackle that. And this to our questions that we can ask the town manager. I thought I thought there was a date. I thought I heard the date mentioned, so but just a little bit. OK, thank you. So, you know, I think you have other questions, too, about water and sewer, you know, water and sewer. I don't know what to say. All right. Any other questions, issues before we go into budgets? All right. Who has budgets ready? OK. You want to start? So I think the first button we could stop with this on on this one. And. But Sophie and I had in real life is that it was. Right off the bat, it was an error. And the job. OK. So in the book. On page. For a staff of 9 million, the page 20. You'll notice in the salary in wages, 5100 land. That are changed to $550. What happened there was that was picked up twice. That that change was actually in the current budgets that in $550 was when. A former member Peter Howard was the recording section parents. He was he received a stipend of 550. Well, since he left the finance committee. Chara was willing to take that position over and transfer the 550 to her. Just to herself. And. So we brought it to the. Budget directors. Actually, the deputy time in is. And this is a new page coming along. So that 550. We brought it's already included in. The 903 while. This happened last year when we voted in numbers and calculated your. Finance committee. So this, you know, we just attacked the report. So it should be updated in their system. So. Alan, do you need to copy this? So having that. The budget figure for us would be a little bit. The budget figure for us would be 11,000, 844. I thought he experienced. And just with. Like all other salaries and wages that are in all our budgets. I think it was in the explainer, but. The whole numbers haven't been put in yet for the year. So even, even on our small budget, there will be a small increase. Once they finalize those. And they're all going to grow. They're all. Yeah, that's what it's like. So. It won't affect our side much because the numbers are very high. I think it was an explainer. It was. Yeah. Any. Questions. About the fit and calm budget. So. Even on our small budget, there will be a small increase once they finalize those full numbers. That's the case. And they're all going to grow. They're all. Yeah, that's what it's like. So. It won't affect our side much because the numbers are very high. I think it was an explainer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I can't. That's okay. Otherwise. For us. Yeah. I'm sorry. The trainings and seminars that we. Oh, that we go to and pay. Okay. Report. Okay. Well, we need to read both the budget. Once that increases or would that be in there? Elasticity. I. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think it is a new sellers. Yes. So. Okay. So that. So that the. Any other questions? Are you making a recommendation? I move. To accept. The new figure. 11,000 848. Second. Second. Any. Second. Second. Any other discussion? All right. All in favor, say aye. Aye. We opposed. All right. unanimous. We're fighting this thousand so far. Do you have any other budget? I don't know. Probably got the revoked. That's another day. Yeah. We've actually got everybody. Take it away. Take it away. What's next? We were moving out of the town hall for the last week and a half. Okay, we're going to go to the selection budget, which is on 20,000 23. I can start. Yeah. So. So starting at the top with the salaries and the wages. I think the, so the decreases. Just a change in Marie left and a change in positions throughout. The one thing we want to highlight here is the vacant position. For principle park and typist. This has been vacant since July 2021. We bring it up every year and talk to them and bring it up to you or the committee. Since 2021, the FTE has dropped from 1.0 to a 0.54 in last year's budget. So there's less money for that spot, but they keep carrying that vacancy. It was explained to us that what happens is it's the chair of the select board is the one that determines whether to fill that position. And the chair position changes every year. So by the time the office convinces one. To hire the terms up and it goes to the next one. He says, no, we don't need to hire. And that's what's been going on. So my follow the question or our follow up question was, well, how much is going to free cash? Since this is that a vacant position. So prior to the vacancy only 4,000 was going to free cash from the select form since it's been vacant. It was at 51,000 of free cash in 2022. fiscal year 2366,600 about. And it's going to be about the same for fiscal year 24. So question, I guess for the committee is, you know, is that useful to have that much going to free cash continuously now, you know, two years in a row fiscal year 24, three years. Yes. So my father would be to tell them that it's a blessing we're going to do this. That they don't get the current chair. Get it back together and let them pair somebody won't carry it forward. And they'll have to come back as a separate request when they finally get that he gets higher. It just seems great. So we will label this user lose. Yeah, one of the things that he had mentioned it, they be in. Not the board, not the board itself, but a number of years ago. When COVID-19 and we had. Then the board administrator was out sick. You remember, well, it ended up they only have one person. Another staff is a problem attorney. So they only end up having one person in Selectman's office working. And then to my understanding is that chairman at that time was concerned, not to get if something happened. They have to hire at least a part time. Right. That's a better part of that. In my memory, that part time position. Well, that's been very good. I remember a lady used to work there. Yeah. And what they did do though is they have to be when she left a high and Ashley my time she shared a position between the board and the building about it. And then she became full time. They left that position over and that's where it is. So they did use a part time position. I think it was a bit a few hours last year when we passed and then one of the office personnel was on leave. So you only ended up with one person in the office. And instead of filling the position. They just use some of the money to hire a part time position for a while. So they like to have that flexibility. Again, we have never spoken. We have never spoken directly to any of the select. Right. We don't really talk to the board administrator. Is that a budget roll up under the town manager's cap or is it upside down? It's a great area. The reason I bring it up is so when I first joined the finance community, I went to the top colors budget and I found out that there was a $65,000 line at the middle of the budget that she never spent. It was for like on telephone switches. We didn't have telephone switches and I was like, well, why do you have this here? And she's like, well, if I zero it, it's just going to get spent somewhere else. And she's like, so I've decided as a financial best practice not to spend it. And I was like, okay. And so then one of the things I would, it was funny when she said it, right? One of the things I tended to appreciate for that discussion is the way we budget is we give these people caps of 3% for out there, this or that or the other thing. So if you remove it. You just, it's just going to go at, they'll just have a position somewhere else. You're actually not saving the tax version when you don't save the government any money and don't need to generate greater officially used to trade for the costs of our house. Right. And so why I say that is over here, especially in the schools like last years, I've had trouble spending all their money and it's been dropping out into free cash. Never really bothered me because it doesn't seem like you want to force someone to spend money. Right. I think on our position, we don't have as many to use it or lose it velocity. So, but I think my question, or at least our question and bringing this up is just so that we are aware of it because if they decide to fill it, that's 66,000. That's going to disappear from free cash, which is maybe not that much and won't notice, but it's not. But if, but if they need it, but if they fit at that some point, they say, we need another person. Can I, can I just say one more thing. And then we're back on the deep. So my counter argument for that would be, it's really great that we end up with all of this free cash. But here it is, and it is 2025 that by 2025, we'll count five years and there's these big red number. And that big red number is totally not real because he's going to turn in $66,000. So long as everybody here agrees not to panic about the big red number five years out. Fine. Otherwise, get it off the page so that we don't have a big, a big red number so smaller. Absolutely. I just want to clarify my question. When you say 66,000 or 60,000, if it's budget for about 25,000 is the extra money benefits and. Well, I guess she gave us the number. So maybe fiscal year 24 she was thinking it would be about the same but fiscal year 24 is the first time it was dropped to 0.5. So the 66,600 was from the school year 23. So yes, so she was saying it, she was expecting it to be the same as fiscal year 23 with what she's looking at, but maybe it won't be as much because now this is dropped so. So maybe they've already kind of compromised it for you in the sense that they've had it by half time position that's on film. Right. So, but it's like, even though it's vacant every year. Right. But when you first notice this, it was a full time. Yes. And so it's continued to be vacant, but they would just see hours. Yeah, it was right fiscal year 22 fiscal year 23 vacant as a full time position this year. 24 is the 1st time it was vacant as a 24. All right, Dean. Yeah, I'll pass. This, this is kind of sort of, again, another standard practice in all of the salivary details we all have vacant positions, many of them don't go actually to you all. But there's many vacant positions that I feel that they juggle around. So, I think it's kind of standard practice seems to me so correct me. So it seems like that's kind of what we do. Given that it is a position that has been decreased in hours. I'm not concerned about it myself. But I think it's something to continue to watch. I think it's a richer point where it can be what you're arguing becomes more powerful, but at this point, since the hour seems to be tracking not not stable at the whole time, or expanding. Karen Japan. Other departments hire contract people now and then when they need people to get certain work done. It's just sounding like it's more of a contract for part of the year. I suppose we believe it as a vacant position, but if they're only using 30% of an FTE, what do they think about dropping it to 0.3 rather than 0.54. I will say it's also we've asked what this position does. I think we asked them that last year to name their ideas if it were filled is to help with town day. And overflow with traffic. The traffic committee. Yeah, the work with this board of tech. They call it tech. And so it's to help with those specific thing. There is the big 250th anniversary coming up. So they didn't feel the need to fill it yet. But we, as work picks up on that 250th anniversary. We just ended the reason we were bringing it up is because when you just look at the report salaries looks like it's just going down. So, you know, there's a 7, 1% versus situation that was worth clarifying for everybody. Going forward. So, if should we just keep going down the numbers still? Yeah, longevity, no big change really that it's just over the years Murray left and she had the biggest longevity announced small increases every year. So longevity just serve as a refresher. It's 1% 5 to 9 years and 2% 10 to 14 years and 3% 15 to 19 years and then you're maxed out at 5%. The line for. Advertising hasn't changed the cost of the legal notices for private ways liquor license marijuana licenses all that. The 5215 telephone is the one telephone line for the board administrator. Jews and subscriptions. There is they're expecting actually a modest increase in that that's not reflected here because this number is based on the bill they got last summer. This summer's bill will be higher with an increase of 2.5%. She said to go ahead and keep this 13,000 in, but it will. We're expecting to see the increased number of this year, but she's decided to keep it at 13,000 this year and it will increase next year. And that's just a reflection of the bill. It turns out for the. The Jews and subscriptions. There's, they can't control that. Office supplies increased obviously once everybody came back to the office. It's been around for many years and otherwise unclassified is more for gifts for retiring members, for example. And historically, since we see some numbers under otherwise unclassified, it's used to be for printing article. The warrant printing, but that's been moved to another line item in the budget. So truly historical figures that it's like that. And the audit reports. It is. We discussed this in the past, they don't the control handles it, but it's under the select or budget. And we asked why they keep budgeting 78,000, even though it's about 10,000 less. And that that figure came when, not the current control, but with the rich. I can't think was that he suggested to at that time when the control would come under the jurisdiction of the board of selection. He suggested that increase at $78,000, which they did the following years. So maybe it seems to go up every year a little bit. Look at the actuals. I think a while before it gets to 78,000. Right. Well, that's simple. When Rich's day became comparable, he started issuing an annual comprehensive financial report. First year, during the move to the ACI bar that was additional work because it was additional work that was additional bill. So we stopped the larger number in there and then he's kept it there forever. So another. But that's not what it costs. Right. And we know because we have historical figures. I mean, it does go up in the actual. So it looks like about 2008 years. So. Yeah, when you add that on to the other vacant position. I mean, get them to profit to 70. I guess. We can ask it. I don't know. Well, how do you feel about it? It seems to me that they should be getting quote from the ordering company on an annual basis. So it shouldn't be a mystery. Guess what? That's the way the company generally work. So we're kind of hitting on it twice. I'll make the statement. So professionally speaking, user lose budgeting is a road to disaster. If it is the worst thing you can do any kind of hit it, but I'll hit it the way it actually plays out. Okay. When you tell people if you don't use it, you lose it, they use it. And so one of the interesting things we have an Arlington is we have all these larger turns back to free cash. If you don't spend it and you don't lose it. What will happen if we draw a hard line and say, you're going to lose it, you're going to lose it. People will do what they always do. Right. Right now, you pull it, you pull 20 years, Q1S, which is July 1, September 30th, 25% of the budget doesn't get spent. All the salary you do with the expenses go Q2, same thing. Q3, same thing. Then at the end, they figure out how much money they have to do some additional spending, things like that, right? If you, if we draw too hard of a line, people will get to Q4 and spend the entire budget and they will draw it to zero. And you'll see the precipitous decline in free cash because, hey, I'm going to lose my money if I don't get it, what I need, I'm not going to have it. So I'm going to go use, you know, I can spend it on good things, I can spend it on kind of gross things, right? And we like to think in our head that as a finance committee, we can fix that and we can manage that and all that. We end up doing the better thing, which is we don't beat people to death over these returns, these large things. And then we have some like any, that's a little drama that occurs where we say the plan is going to run out in three years and all hell is going to freeze over. And I said, oh, fun money, that's another year, fun money, that's a better way to do it than to actually run out of money in year three, because people were spending every last second so they didn't lose it. Are you going to make that speech the next time you know where I should be and I do this. We do this every year. We do this every year. World to the end. And the basic issue here is the, and he made an illusion to it before the slum is budget and all the other budgets in the town side are under this, because three and a quarter percent growth cap. It's too high. And we're taxing people that we should be taxed. That's the issue. And if the, if the growth rate were more realistic, then we wouldn't have this problem and the manager, manager, the town manager and department managers and better manage their budget within a realistic set of bats. If you can money and appropriate in this line, I don't use for anything other than the other reports. I don't think it has historically. I just wanted whether they could use it to buy more pencils or whether. Okay. Because it is a beautiful. Right. Which I don't think are produced by the auditor. I would like to see your reduction because it probably don't need as many credit copies. And then the world of electronics. I don't know that. Right. So putting out fewer copies. I know it's an expensive. Right. I think when we were talking about that. Maybe this is a six. I think when looking at. At the select board's budget, it's sometimes different than looking at other departments where there's so much going on into the projects. This is just. Basically salaries and an audit report and there's no. Activity projects being. So it's not like at the end of the year, they're looking to spend it on something we cut down. I think it's different than other budgets. I think this might be an exception. Right. How many of these are already over here by 10 more. Right. There's nothing for them to spend the money. I mean, if they're sending 66,000. If this would be a good example of a place to. We should probably be consistent looking at all the other. We want to make that. I think that's a very good point that if we do it for this budget, we must do it for all of the budgets. Look for opportunities to. Squeeze a little bit. Yeah. And then we have to then we go back to Dean's point of. Is that what we want to do is that. Knowing that the money goes. How much squeeze do we want to do how much. That and that's something that we. Right. Any instance, we have to say, is this money that could be spent on buying more pencils that you're going to fill the cabinet or is this money that was. Specifically for this thing and you really couldn't add it. You couldn't add extra at the end of the year. Yeah. We can maybe do that with our own budget because we generally don't spend. Grant. Thank you. It's just a quick one. I just wanted to. So this is the type of thing I have. Over the years. And Michael, this is sort of you probably have the same as Tom meeting. A lot of times. You know, I'm just astounded by that. So I, I like the animal's point. I wonder where the bar is between when we start. You know, I think Charlie might have made a good point about the cap might be a little bit higher or something like that. Or maybe it shouldn't be so high. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think my cap might be a little too high or something like that, or maybe it shouldn't be so overall spread. Because at some point, we have. You know, that. Red number, however, the larger small might be. I mean, how much does that, that the three cash I was left after. So that's just it. I'd like the points that Alan and Charlie made about maybe the But yeah, I mean, part of the reason I like doing this now and early is because it sets the bar for how we're looking at budgets going forward. But you're right. We do. He's correct. We do squibble over $8,000 versus $800,000. Um, you know, if they're not, but they don't, they don't have anything else to spend it on. So. It's not like they're going to go spend it on something else like Charlie. I believe that the question was asked, can they spend it on this money on something else? I believe. Under the bylaw, the town department managers can spend expenses from one budget and another budget. The town comptroller has instituted a new charter accounts to make the spending clear. But I don't believe that there's a regulation that says you can not move money from one category to another without, you know, requiring any approval other than the local department manager. So, I guess that my suggestion here would be as much as I took a hard line on this position that it irritates me that the slide forward terror will never fill. If it's possible for these conversations to be friendly conversations, it would be possible to hit not this year because you've already met with them next year when you meet with them say hey, we see a pattern where you don't actually spend $78,000 but you cut that to 70 and you won't have a problem. You want to be catarized. Are you sure you need this money. And then if they say no, no, no, we don't want to give it up for well, but you can at least ask. Yes, this figure is not calculated in the selections. They just they just kind of accept this right in terms of the controller. So if we're having a conversation it's control. And whoever's talking to the comptroller should talk to the comptroller and whoever's talking to the comptroller should talk to the comptroller. We're not talking to either is either is the workers in the select. I don't know about this. I can't talk to select board itself. But somebody on our committee is talking to an actual right back conversation and say, hey, we make this a more realistic number given that it's not getting spent. Assuming you don't want that money to free cash and so on and so forth. And I think that there are that that's probably a good approach in other places where you see something in the budget that is the pattern of under spending a budget where you could say to somebody, hey, could we make this number more realistic and see what they said. I don't believe you could move money from this line to the select board expenses because I don't think those are the same. I don't think so either. So, so, but it's so. So what we have is the select boards budget by we actually have two different figures we have one for the slight points and we have ones with the order reports. So, I'm going to make a motion that we accepted 266,520 on the select board budget. Okay. And Sophie agree with that. So, we have for us a motion to approve this budget as opposed to that it's not here. We also have a section of cutting that budget. And we've also had a section of not putting that budget, but next year, they threatening next year to do it and the more notes. I think that covers how we have talked about both this and the audit. Any motion. As to these other two options. So, we have a motion that's been seconded any further discussion on that. All in favor say yes. Yes. Opposed. All right. Now, let's do the same with the order for. I move that we accept the figure of $78,000 for the accounting and auditing total reports. Seconded. Any further discussion. Any other motions. In favor say aye. Post. As you know, as well. So, so we've had a discussion we can't pretend with the end just to get about it. So, it is. So it is what it is to this year. How do people want to handle the same issue. With these two budgets. Next year. Are we, do we want to make it clear that. That we would be accepting different letters next year. So we want to have a discussion first how people might. Charlie. So, I think. Have to retract partially the statement. A minute ago. The accounting budget couldn't be spent somewhere else. It's actually not part of the select this budget. I was referring to within an expense budget, for example, those four categories above. If you move back and forth, it couldn't go from one department to the other. The other point, the main point that we make is that. We have already had our meeting with. The control, but this was not on her budget sheet. And we didn't discuss it. But we'll go back and talk to her and find out what her opinion is. And, you know. It's, it's not clear to me while, while it's in her budget. It's not clear to me that the. I don't know who actually makes a decision that says we're going to use these orders or, you know, or we're going to go out and do a. Get a competition going between three potential orders and see who is back with the lowest bid. That's that's often done. And we've been using powers and Sullivan for. As long as I can remember. So. You know, there are ways to get the number down. On the issue with the. The vacancy position in the board of second, I hate to do this to you, Madam chair, but I think you should have a conversation. With either the current chair. Of the new chair in April as to what. He or she wants to do with this position. So I would suggest that we talk to them that what they're really looking for is the ability to hire contractor temporary labor. That they not put this in a salary line, but that they add. To their expense money. Some amount of cash to use for that purpose. Because then this at 5.5, 4. It could be wrong, but I think at point 5, 4, we then also have to budget some benefits. And that would get us out of budgeting the benefits. We were budgeting a slightly higher figure for contractors because we have to pay more by the hours. And then that feels to me like an appropriate way to gain the flexibility that they want as opposed to. What feels like not quite the right methodology. And then we promise not to yell about why are you hiring. Yeah. So as a general principle. Anything wrong with just letting the unspent money fall into pre-catch. Because it gets gets included in the capital plan. So it does get refurbished. I would argue probably more productively than if some department has some arbitrary. Time limit that they have to spend it. And I'm. Absolutely concur with. With Dean having seen it for, you know, been in the public sector my entire career. And that the user lose one of these stupid. The victims that get because Dean is actually right. Under the pressure of having to spend money or lose it in their budget next year. Some terrible decisions get made. Short-sighted and you know, ultimately wasteful, not deliberately, but the net effect is. So I mean, letting the unspent money flow into pre-catch that can then get reprogrammed to the capital plan. I think it's actually a pretty good system. Okay. Just a couple of follow up, a couple of examples of where user to loser. In the clerk's office and also in the registrar's office. A few years ago. They lost positions. Exactly. Because they didn't carry them. And the registrar's office now was down to one person. It used to be two and a half. The clerk's office. Is down a half a position. That they never got back. So those are examples of what happens if you say, I don't need it anymore. They're going to take it away from you. Going back to the board of select when just just a foot in the nation. This, if you will, this part time that they hide to fill in was actually a retiree that used to do the town day lineup. They brought her back. So just a recent town day into all the paperwork and all the setup that that requires. That's a, that's quite a job. They brought her back and she was willing to come back. But that's the person that's filled that position. I don't know if that's going to happen. Just coming. Yeah. I don't know. I guess I, again, question the problem with user to lose it. I think user to lose it is a bad thing from office supplies or ammunition or something where you can just go buy now and do it later. But when it comes to a position or what we pay the auditor, I just don't think that that problem applies to those cases. So if we see something where it looks like money has been budgeted that never gets spent, I think we have to look at specifically what, what sort of money that is, you know, is it for one big purchase that happens every year. And we had it always comes under budget or for office supplies. They can just, oh, we got to buy some more of that. So each one can be treated. So you asked for a suggestion, but before I offer one, can we suspend the autoskey rule so I don't assign myself work. So speaking of the audit. Every other audit has a reconciliation of budget to actual it's actually printed statement. So what you can do, I have it open on my computer right now is you can actually look and see every department that underspected budget. Right. So we're talking about the slide court right now, not for fiscal 23, but for fiscal 22, they underspent their budget by 73,000 74,000. So you can actually see that position and the audit just translate right into here. So if we wanted to get a better understanding of budget under spending in the various departments, we have a roadmap, like we have a document that says where money's exactly under spent. And we could just kind of go through it. And it wouldn't take that long to figure out comprehensively how it worked. And then you'd find yourself at least you'd have an outcome where in understanding it, you have treated everybody. We haven't created an environment where if we were good enough to remember to ask someone about it, we got it if we weren't good enough to find it. We didn't get it and, you know, low and behold, this isn't going to be very surprising to anybody. But, um, police was the biggest turnback in fiscal 22 as example they turned back 465,000. That was the biggest single turnback, uh, treasure and turnbacks 210, that year, et cetera, et cetera. So that just kind of totaled it up. So I would say rather than like kind of hunting after each department and making them kind of deal with that, we could just administratively look at this schedule. And then just kind of ask, you know, you look it over, you line them up over four years and see if the same departments are turning back large sums ever here. And then you would know it's a reoccurring issue. And yes, I will do it next week. I think we also need to keep another thing in mind. It's this thing called COVID. And so there were across the board and every every industry and every industry, every job, every office, every organization. People, we could not find people from positions. So the police there is not like they'll take anyone off the street. So I would expect and kind of and glad that there are some turnbacks to police department and fire department because we just don't, we just can't, we don't want to hire anyone to take these positions. It's been a lot of turnover in the last few years. So I think we have to keep that in mind while we're looking at the these budgets today that things have happened the last few years. So, I think it's good for us to think about these things and an attention between us and lose it being a bad idea but also being honest with the taxpayer. But no, it's really not going to do that with an override in 2027 because well, you'll just be a fine one. And I don't know where the sweet spot is, but having having data, I think it will be helpful to keeping us in mind. And I, as we go through the other budget, I think we should do this online as well. Josh. I have a question I guess in other organizations I've been in and I don't know municipal finance allows it. Is it possible to have like a top of the house vacancy number. And it says that, you know, we're setting aside a million two million whatever break and sees across the organization so there's no pressure for anybody to hire to spend it, just because they can't have it but the time address and discretion. I don't know that that has been an issue in the past departments like saying look how much money I saved. No, no, but I guess, like in this particular budget. They're 20% under what they budgeted. And as a taxpayer say oh geez the whole town budget there is 20% padded. So what's, you know, what are they doing there. That just seems funny to me. So I think that I would be comfortable with a percentage, but 20% seems very excessive to me. I was asking my original question just if you don't want to have user to lose it or any pressure like that. If there's some expectation if you get a jam, we're going to be able to help you out because we have this funny or in general again organizations a lot of times will say, you know, we know that people want to hold on to the positions but really, we're never going to film all, even without COVID. And so we've got this number here we've got a 5% vacancy factor for our salary. So it's interesting to see if other pounds do something like that. And we have to. So for example, the police turn back, I can almost guarantee is because they can see is that they can't fill another lack of trying. So we'd have to look at each of those and sort of not paint with a broad brush that oh this is departments padding. And if police chief finds him or herself with the ability to fill those positions, we need to make sure that they have the money to do that. They would like for that. I'm sorry, but like overtime adjustment would perhaps correct that issue. I don't know. I mean they're probably spending more and overtime because they've got all these vacancies. Yeah, they are. Yeah. But again, they can't just get people off the street. There's the whole civil service. I'm just saying if they if they're, if they got all these vacancies and suddenly they actually hire those people. So overtime costs are going to go down and their salaries are going to go up and it might kind of balance each other. Theoretically, yeah. I want to make a comment to about Dave's remark about reductions in staff in the clerk's office and registrar's office and maybe some other office. For years we've been looking for benefits of investing in technology and software and things like that. For example, what I principle court type is how many offices have type of stuff. The server profession that's gone away and buggy with them. And I'm hoping that as we're investing office 365 and other databases like the clerk's office isn't using file cards anymore. I think they're finally using computers and sort of expect the benefit of that to be a reduction is that over time. So I just like to consider that in positions where investments in capital equipment and software. They reduce separate. Actually increases. Because the workload, the workload changes. And then it also increases staff and increases the salary of that staff. So should we go back to file cards. No, I'm just telling you what happens. It's fact. It increases. And some of the things. Let me just give you an example. Print it. Now you would think in today's world that we wouldn't have to go to the advocate that really doesn't exist, but we have to print certain zoning and certain bylaws and all that. That's not governed by us. That's coming by state law. So even though we have a, well, as a newspaper, we still have to print, because the law says we have to. So we have no control over that. Wouldn't it be a lot simpler if you could just go on the computer and say, yes, this stuff, but the losses know it's going to be corrected in the paper. But there's a whole, you know, an IT guy is a whole line of the factor, but. But when I see type this in someone's title, I say, who uses type. But they, but that's just, that's just. Okay. I just wanted to consider that across the board. Annie. So, so I think there's a couple of things why I'm here. So I don't think we can make a hard and fast rule about any of this. I think it's about getting to know your department heads, how they think what their goals are so on and so forth. I'm, I'm, I'm put pressure on this particular position in the select board office. I know how that office runs, and I know they don't need to position. Exactly what they do need, which is they didn't need a contractor would never put pressure on the police department about four or five vacancies because of that cycle, how they feel and also because we know we underpaid our police officers and moved to other towns to make more money and so on and so forth. So you're expecting a constant. So I think it becomes about understanding your, your department heads budget and seeing what you can persuade your department head to consider it would think there are ways that you are efficient in terms of their budget requests. Because what happens with budgets is that I think this year's numbers we have 3% to then we roll them forward because we know that those are the rules. Okay, so if you didn't think of it as use it or lose it, but you thought of it as zero base. Start every year fresh and build it back up with what do I really need, which is a very tedious and difficult process. Okay, then you would begin to see some of this fall out. And the objective there wouldn't necessarily be to get underneath the cap that we're already at. It would be that there may be other things modern services we want to provide that we don't because there's $78,000 in the select works budget that they're turning back when the clerk needs to add a half time position. That's the difficulty for me, not that we are are overspending, but that there are things we don't do because we say we don't have the money when in fact that one is turning back to free cash. So, and then this unrealistic picture for the public of what's coming in five years, which is never what we predicted, and you can watch it drop your career. Not that you're ever going to get your five. Correct. So all I'm saying is, think about this when you're talking to your department has, I certainly think about what I'm talking about. And those are the kind of questions that we asked, what, what are you, what are you not doing that you need to do. Okay. And how did you get that change in your total salary. You know, just does it work. They might just still think you want to add anything. Nothing, but it challenges him. Sophie. No, I think this has come up one because it's recent in the past three years since and since I joined and also just because I think I was curious right from curiosity of saying how much is going to be crap. Depending on this money because if they do fill it, and that disappears from free cash into that a shock to those who are planning something of that. So, just, I think the select board is also difficult for us because we don't meet with the chair. Right. The board administrator really isn't the one making decisions. Because he takes their calls. With that. Thank you, madam chair. Following Alan's comment about efficiencies, you know, type this versus computer operators, etc. I have, I was on the capital plane for a long time. And I always heard narratives from our managers that they needed this better fire truck or this better public works vehicle, or these better computers because it was more efficient. And many times the implication was that the. Personnel force would the personnel level would not be quite as high. In fact, what always happened. Is that the amount of services delivered to the community. Increased and use that money. And so, if, if there's going to be any savings from improved technology, whether it's in vehicles or office equipment or other tools. That direction come from the top. The town manager and board of select men or the school committee or the superintendent. That says that this is the level of services we're going to provide at this cost. Or at a lower cost or whatever, but I don't think it's a decision that department manager can make. Anything else on this. So Dean is going to get some information. I think we all should be thinking about these, these things as we are looking at our budgets. And if point things out to us, ask your department head. These questions. And maybe just be a very helpful exercise at the end of the budget season for setting up a game plan for next year. I would just ask, you know. The lead for most of our budget meeting, we are meeting with the actual apartment. So I asked why, why in this case are we not because it's we're talking about the board of select men's office. It's a different setup. We're talking to the board administrator. It sounds like the board administrator doesn't have the decision. We pray for power. It's limited. Because they are elected officials. It's a different setup when you're dealing with elected officials rather than appointed. And we have never met all that I've been on this committee. I've been asking that question myself. I have to be honest with you. I know. I don't even know if the board of select know where about this discussion about being into the other not. It's brought to their attention. But like Sophie said, it's passed on to the next year to the next year to the next. Yeah, exactly. It's different when you're dealing with elected officials versus appointed. We had to tell you that. My first experience. I think the first year on the board, we raised some questions on the salaries and couldn't get a call back from the chair. Right. And we know where they sleep. Maybe also maybe things can change now. We're going to longer and. Here. Maybe she had a certain. Power over the office that. So, so the change of guard, right? Maybe you have a change of guard. And so. So much. The chair got involved in the budget. So I think it varied by chair. Right. I didn't try to get involved in the budget. Had a 10 minute conversation with Marie and said, you can be really need all those people. And she said. Get out of my office. She's great. I got a rough. I do know that Kevin. Was very. Very specific about wanting to preserve certain things. So he may have had more of a line. But I don't think that that's a reason not to try and have a conversation with. The chair. In order to ask them to be at your meeting. That just may be a reason that they defend the budget. You know, if you had as when I was chairing, if you had sent to me, we need you in this hundred meeting, I would have showed up. If you had then said to me. We need to do 10 things. And Marie said, no, we don't. I probably would have gone. But I would have. So I think you should lose. Get your calls. And if you have trouble getting your calls. Let me know. I've been telling you I work for water and sewer to win. I don't know who those people are. It's quite a lot of water. Another year ago, I made phone calls to spend. The chairman. Trying to get a hold of that. Yeah. And it never happened. I, you know, I even tried to have. The office staff. And although they spoke to the chairman. And they kind of look before you and use this number. That didn't happen. Please tell me. I was. Just. I just want to remind people that it is a. By law. That. Every office in town. Must give us the information that we have. I don't know. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But the office in town. Must give us the information that we request. Now I hate. To, to go nuclear. But if we get frustrated. I feel like it is within our power to say. Fine. We're going to just give our report to town meeting without your office being. Funded at all. And so town meeting Y. And you can buy your own motion, substitute your budget then, and you can fight about it. You want to go through the humiliation of us saying that you have given you have treated us this way, but I don't think you ever have to get to that point. So, so people are having problems with their department head. Let's bring it to the full committee and talk about it. Because, because we have, we, it is our right under the bylaw of the town by law that if we ask for it, they must get it to us. So, we can add anything. I was just going to say, I think we're probably comfortable with the fact that when we, if you will be approaching them about this particular issue going forward, I think, at that point, maybe go understand it. One more communication next year. And the incoming chair of the select board is someone who understands how the finance committee works have served on pass. It's good, but I can't hear you. The incoming chair of the select board is someone who understands how the finance committee works. He has spent time here. Yeah. All right. Do you have any more budgets? We, we have, we could do all of ours or we can, I know libraries or some other ones were ready to go. No. So, if I could. Excuse, can we get this only one done? Yeah, that's a small one. Let's do whatever I say small. Small sometimes. Yeah, I know. That's on 78, the book. 78 79. I had a telephone conversation with the building inspector. But there's only you can, it comes under the building inspector. As you remember, I guess, the position is only an administrator used to be a part time position and she had with the building inspector. And kind of a nightmare. So personally, it's now a point eight nine position, but just into the time. And the duty and responsibilities. This person now work in another location. That's why you see. The salary. I, the longevity of four, four, three is because this person has worked. In other areas within the building department. Yeah. So that's, that's what the figure is. And in, in the zoning, it's, they've been very busy the last few years. But the hearings. If somebody request information on past hearings. Printing office supplies. But now within our current year and lastly, it's, it's leveled off as far as the office support is now stable or it wasn't stable before. In and out. They brought back a retiree. But the zoning has a workload has automatically increased. It now requires a point eight nine position. So that's basically it. Tony board total is 76,743. And we only have that one employee. Are you making a motion. I'll make that motion that we accept that figure. 76 72. Second. Question down. Was there any discussion of the impact of the community's acts. I was surprised there isn't more in here. Because that could resolve a flurry of zoning. No, there was not discussion, but a lot of these, they're expecting different departments for different reasons. A lot of. Influx of different things coming down within the next 6 to 8 months. Which I was surprised that usually with this. Because this is who works with the chair of the board of appeals and board of appeals and it's not until the work comes in. And that they have hearings and they have that work today. Can they anticipate the number and they're not going to. I don't think of it at a time. And also, they get information requests. They have to do research. And it was a lot of requests that. A while ago for a lot of research. Yeah. Charlie. I have a question as to why. In 2023, the actual office budget was. Almost $5,500 and. They went back to budgeting 800. What was it was. It's interesting. I. At that $5,000 or 78 from back. That was. That's what I. Probably diplomatic research going on. That they kind of take people just to do research or somebody can be requested all this. Information that's that's put that figure up. Public information. Yeah. Any other questions. Comments. We have a motion and seconded. All in favor say yes. Any opposed. What other budgets. Legal planning. Let's keep going. I don't know if anybody else wanted to go tonight. Well, I don't know. I'm just going to go to the books. Okay. 1661. Actually, this year wasn't. It's fairly quick meeting there. There weren't too many changes from last year. The salaries is just. Regular salaries. Nothing specific. Same with overtime. I think last year that included some temporary workers during. During the elections. The big change in longevity is simply because a long time employee retired. So that. From that 1%. Stipends as we say every year is just a year in contract for uploading. That takes us down. Salaries. And then expenses. Advertising, which the actual seem to be tracking fairly well. They've reduced the language. They were able to reduce language and legal notices to keep. The numbers lower, which is why the 2022 actuals are so much higher. That was before they started reducing the language. Would be a football town council. The 5203 is the data processing expenses. It's just the repairs on the machines. 52 19. Stenographers. This one before town meeting, but how many wants to keep transcripts. And so until we find that. To make transcripts from the ACMI recordings, we have to keep the stock reverse. So there's no way to produce that. Office supplies. Is including a security paper for vital records. So that that keeps that cost higher. Binding is a way that they used to do vital records. And that's middle of the year. It's under fire from library. It's moved elsewhere. 52 28 printing licenses. This is dog tags. They tried to reducing the number of dog tags that didn't go well. So they're, they're sticking. Ordering more this year. Order lots of dogs. 52 99. Is otherwise unclassified member dues. Copy machines. Additional training. They've been doing extra training. And that is going well. So this is one where. The technology is definitely. Increased technology also means increased salaries. You can use the technology and. And the cost of the technology. They are. I think that was. On the 10th. They now have a full compliment. Employees. Everything is now. Working well. Working well. It's flowing a lot better. So, so that's, that's a good thing. To approve the. It was $4,000. Or 86. Your second. Questions. Oh, second. Charlie Tulford. Second, I'll second. Charlie Tulford Menon. Did you call me? Yes. Thank you. So look in the salaries here in the. There's a typo. The stepping increases card $6,300. And the individual positions of the assistant town court principle for. They also went down. There's turnover. If you look the previous. That are all new hires. Yeah. So there's some changes there because of the new hires. They were all. There is a typo on the detail for the town for herself. The max number for fiscal year 2025 is lower than her. Okay. That's just a consistent title that's been there for a while. We need to get fixed. Well, is the, is that, that's where it's sort of headed. As an electric official, of course, is set. She's not a little bit. Yes, she is. She's still electric. All right. Okay. Okay. On a side note, I asked the town clerk. If you all recall, there was a vote for rank, rank choice voting. And it's still tied up with the secretary of state. To the legislature. I could be wrong. It appears that as long as the current secretary of state. The majority of the state's, the majority of the state vote for rank choice, does not bring up the decision. There's a number of them. That I did bring that up because it's been a while since. It's fun to bring the. Yeah, I noticed the assistant. This year's a grade five. person last year, three? I'm sorry, I just can't hear you. Last year, last year the assistant counterpart was a three, three, instead of a grade five. It's because that's the one who retired here a very long time and didn't have the knowledge, technology required. So I think the new person has a higher... Who worked in the office then became, was appointed by the clerk to be the assistant counterpart. And that person had been there previously. So back to the assistant counterpart, the new K and FY2024 that's listed here was $73,000. Was that the previous incumbent salary or was that the current employee's previous salary when she was a principal clerk at High List, you know? I had last year's decree. Oh my God. I think that also is the last year's incumbent with the changes made at town meeting when we voted. That's what's in that town. Right. So she was the former assistant town clerk in last year's budget book was at 62,000 and change before the changes at town meeting I think. And then, right, because when the current assistant town clerk was a principal clerk, she's much lower. They were all grade three. So there seems to be, right, they were all grade three last year. I think that's over point. And then now there are grades, fives, and fours. But as that obviously is ranked up, increased technology. So that is, that is quite less than increased salaries. Which I can be sure that we weren't looking at the long-term pay there. Sometimes when a long-time person leaves and the person comes in and you gotta reset. I have a question. I think you probably just answered, but I'm just looking at the salary and wages of an increase of $19,000, almost $20,000. But it seems like on the FY20.4 there's like a $10,000 or $11,000 difference of that $273 versus $261. So that just like, I'm looking at like the top of the 2024 budget says $261,420 for salary. And then down at the bottom of the next page for salaries, it has $273 at the very bottom of FY24. So I'm trying to look at that $19,932, which is the dollar change on salaries. And that seems like that's the difference between $261 and $281. Whereas the $281 is the same as the sum at the bottom of the column in 2025. But the $273 is not. Right. Because the budget in 2024 that was approved just to print out for town meeting. Right. Okay. So, okay. And then my other question is, I've just looked at the capital budget also. Is there anything, any movement in the clerk's office to digitize or that sort of thing? I don't see that here. That's going to be a slow process. But to answer your question directly, there's plenty of movement going on. It's going to be a slow process. But there's no dollars here or in the capital budget yet? No, not yet. Okay. They did make, I don't remember exactly what request they made, but they did make a couple capital requests, but we couldn't include a plan. Right. So they also made a request to CPI. So, right. And they're going to CPI. Yeah, they're still more type of. All right. Any more questions? All right. We have a motion for 384,086. It's been seconded. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. Any opposed? All right. unanimous. On to the next one. What a registrar. Next page. Okay. So elections and salaries, as we discussed every year, this is based on the number of elections that happens in that fiscal year. So there will always be fluctuations. So this is a year. So, Julia was reminding us, 2024 budget was for two elections in an override and a town election. 2025 budget, there's an election in September, November, and April, December three. The 2024 budget though was actually just for one election, even though we had two, because I think she said she hadn't budgeted for the override. I'm going to surprise her. And I think time ordered an email earlier type for the meeting that so Julie's expecting the 2024 number to be too low actually, which is a separate issue then for this budget. So she will need to transfer as an aside regarding 2024 most likely. That's something like when it's up good. So, over time also the 5103 line is having to do with saying the past the elections as well, but she's not having any for this year. The expenses being 52, 21, the electronic voting equipment has to be the 21 machines. There's 21 machines, we're talking about the voting pass. Yeah. And there's one that 52, 21. So there is an increase from last year. That's the increase cost plus the town clicker, town meeting clickers are included in that number. So that's a contract and every year under the contract there's an increase for those clickers. So that's why that number will increase every year under that line. Office supplies stays fairly consistent printing ballots. There's an increase. So that's also for the increase in the number of elections, I believe the fact that there's more ballots. What was interesting in the printing of ballots that she's Julie said is the town of Arlington has about 50% of mail-in ballots, I think in early voting, but she still needs to print enough ballots for voting in pursuit for every register. Because she not quite, and she undercounts a little bit, but she cannot find herself in a position of running out of ballots. And so she blows away a lot of ballots after the election, but that's just the cost and a waste that has to be built into the system. And the other purchase services line 52 and 36, that is a significant increase in time has to do with the coding in the machines, which goes into the, we fold the ballots so the more ballots and elections we have, the more the coding costs go up, because you have to fold those ballots. So that is this year, that's 15,000 for the coding versus last year, 7,000 for those numbers. And also, again, we're going to have early voting for the presidential primary and also for the November election. And presidential primary at this point, we'll have early voting a week, presidential election in two weeks early voting. So that's coming from a Secretary of State. So I don't think she's going to use as many personnel, as much personnel as she had to use in the past, but that number will be finally unknown. To go back to what I had just said about the 15,000 versus 7,000 for coding, you'll notice that's actually more than a $4,000 increase, which is only showing a $4,000 increase. And that is because last year, the number included 3,000 for visually accessibility, that 3,000 has now been covered by the state, which was the hope. So that's why we're only going up four instead of going up four. It used to be used for something else. So are you going to make a motion? Yes, we can now make a motion to approve the election budget of $278,704. Election. Okay. Do I have a second? Okay. Michael and then Alec Johnson. So where did the 5219 cost items for the day election workers? 5219 to turn over the history of that. It hasn't been in here. Whole with her salaries. I think she now puts it into salary. That's my question. Here's the breakdown. I don't think, I don't think we've ever had a breakdown of salary in that way, just because it is just for the poll workers. There is no employee, there's no employee in elections. There is a term that they use for employees that work the election. Just can't come, I should know what I would be asking. But they get paid. Right. They get paid. Some choose not to get paid. I just found that last year. Some choose to volunteer at any time, while others pay. Some of this is also historically things when Julie came in, she just, things were put into line items where they didn't really belong and she cleaned house and read the things in the right categories. This is a historical point. So I think there used to be line items here, but it didn't make, you know, she moved it up to where it was supposed to be. But so we don't have an answer as to where that cost is. The cost is in the salaries and wages. That's the time for the poll workers. She said before it's a per election cost. It's different every fiscal year based on the number of elections. Those are the election workers. This also, since we have new members and a reminder for those that were new last year, there is a reimbursement system by the state. So this is the cost. This is the true cost of the elections that we budget, but then there's a reimbursement that goes into the general fund from the state. But we never know what that number is until after the fact. So we conservatively don't budget for anything. And that comes out of the state. Those are for free cash. We're extra cash for free. Ellen Jones, do you have anything else? Well, I'll take it. My question was going to be where's the breakdown of salaries and wages that our other budget has, but I understand what happened is it kind of moved from the expense of the salaries and there's no compensatory breakdown. Now a breakdown of salaries and wages would give us some idea of how it can change for a couple of hours. So I'm not taking them out, I guess. Great. And it's so, I mean, but what she told us last year, we didn't ask about this year, but the last year for my notes is it's so dependent on the number of elections, right, that every year the breakdown. Well, still, you guys know, okay, this year it's going to take 57 workers. So I'll take it for that. And then historically too, now that she has passed the election workers. There's less overtime because things go faster. So there's the cost, the increased cost of the technology, but then an increase in overtime. There's something under that. And then as in this side for those dealing with facilities and the other budgets, traditionally, she's always used the line room, I guess, for counting the ballots and doing all the ballots and also for storage of the ballots and all that. So the situation of the conditions of down the hall are affecting how our towns work. Yeah, the line room performance. So what was the plan? Just fit for a big yellow table. I think she's planning on using part of the select board's office. I don't think they know it yet. They don't know. They can't be away from the clerk's office because they're going to be within some kind of a distance group because the clerk keeps on going. Your room and the select board office, how is it done here? And now it's happening in the select and school now. Yeah, the select men's room. So you look up and you stay up. Well, I smell like the smell in the select one from the water damages. They have phantoms constantly trying to challenge them. So there's an extra election in 2020. Compared to 2024, but in the 2024 number here, there were two, but it budget was forgotten. Okay. So why is the, why is the, what doesn't the ballots go up more? Yeah, well, because the number of voters don't go up. Well, and the ballots for a general election is paid for by the state. The balance for our ballots for our elections. We pick for some of that. Grant, thank you. This curiosity can get the better of us sometimes. Not really super budget related, but the only counter could ask this. When you say something about coding balance. Yes. Not a budget, but that's a cool process. What's that mean? What's that do? Julie explained to us, so you have the balance that you fill in, right? The bubbles, but each time you have an election that looks different and you have to code it for the machine that feeds it. Oh, okay. Okay. It's called a machine. Right, right. So the more, the more elections, the more ballots, the more. Okay. All right. I got that. Thank you guys. Yeah, I had to figure that out. It's not a manual. Any other questions? So far. Yeah. So just make sure I heard this right. Did you say 50% of voting is now now in and out? Yeah. That is really caught on. All right. So it costs me. Yeah, it costs the town. So we have a motion for a two seven eight seven oh four. I agree with the second. Any other questions? All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. I think any opposed. All right. unanimous. Next budget. Next page for the registrars. The change in salary was an increase from a grade four. That was in the budget book that I think I had a meeting. It was maybe classified. I mean, she hopes that the part of the printing the census and all that will. She said it's up by two, some of those numbers would go down and get new mailings. So last year she told us for printing census new mailings for not returning the census. So something the office had started last year. And so that's a lot of paper and hopefully if you can catch on that it's they should turn in their census and they'll have fewer reminders to send out or new mailings for the fact that they didn't they don't send it in they get off photo rolls and all that. So they go on to the unanimous. So if you go to vote and someone says to you vote, you can vote, but you're on the unanimous. You have to step aside. The one has to take some information. It's very quick, but in the paper. So why is that? You didn't fill up the census. Basically that's what you're doing with the form. So it goes back on who you are and where you are. So she had added the reason there was an increase in the actual from 22 to 2023 there is because she added an additional mailing. When you did not return your census so that you would have this issue. Try and get people to turn them in with the idea that in a few years people will realize they should fill it out the first time instead of waiting to get the reminder. But she's not there yet in terms of being able to reduce that. And most husbands when they come to vote, I'm not here. They play me wise. She's probably not. She didn't tell me to do it. It is certainly Michael. Grant. So I think we move to approve the budget for the board of directors 73,733. So. Grant, for the question. No, I was going to make the motion. Okay. Michael. So where does the printing happen to all contracted service? Yeah. Like the balance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Census forums, all these things that go on. Yeah. All right. There's a motion seconded. Any other questions? All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any amendments? Next budget. Yeah, go up. Roger legal. Sure. Page 50. Legal. Page 55. Actually, okay, as we all know that we have a new town council who was the acting town council for a few months during the summer. Doug Hines has left another position in the community. So presently there's also a vacancy for the deputy town council where it comes to contact if they're in the process of conducting an interview for that position. There's a question. There's a question. Legal. Yeah. Yeah. You want to do a question? So first question I got was about the vacant position, but they're working on it. Are the interview okay for that? What he said to me was it's currently being worked on. So that took that as they've interviewed people. And then on the longevity line, again, that's just because of the departure of the high relation to that legal expenses. So this is where there's all a lot of stuff that's usually covered in here. The lawyers don't take the time to detail out everything that's in here. It's just one big bucket. So historically, what's been explained is in the 5240 expenses, you have your bar dues, your bar association dues, your legal databases, your court fees, filing fees, office supplies, travel, unclassified such as having court reporters or visually at the zoning board appeals or the police dog hearings and outside council. And outside council is where the biggest chunk of the money goes. So we had some updates based on the previous year's budget. There was a police case that that's where a big chunk of the money was going. And that's been resolved. So that issue has been resolved. That outside council fee is not carried over or budgeted for the next fiscal year. So that was that was about it. Yeah, we also asked, excuse me, we also asked the different things that might come about as far as legal matters. What was the issues of the public works and there are no issues now. There was possibility of some type of contendination. They have warned us last year that you should really, there would maybe be something in the future for the DPW. And there was an issue of contamination of the poets corner. When there was a discussion going on between Yats, Diocesan in the Thelma Hills fire, there was a joint venture. Well, that no one in the Thelma Hills would approve the plan. So that's we're sure about our last year when we asked them about heads up and things. Those were things they had told us to watch out for, but actually And we also asked them about the house that their officers, the Javits house on the street, because we had discussion last year about the conditions of that piece of property here. And the town council told us that through CPA funding, they received a sizable amount of money to a full grant for work inside the building. The first thing they're going to build inside the air conditioning, and as a result over years is the building swells and sinking. And so they're going to go after that. There are all the first pile of the money for air conditioning and straightening that out. And if they need more funding, they'll then go back to the CPA and ask them more. He was quite pleased with the size of the dollar. He didn't give me the dollar amount, but he said that he would size it for some. That's definitely a good news this year as opposed to after, when we met with them when there was nothing in the pipeline, and everything looked pretty bleak as far as the state of that house, the exterior, the interior. So that's goodness. The house is not actually owned by the town of Allen, but I guess there's been an agreement in place for, since Paul Riviera wrote up, Matt, say, I guess I don't know. The town of Allen would keep the house, maintain the house, and it isn't working agreement. Who owns it? So it's been affected. Was it the owner of the property behind it? The original owner of the property was the Wilford brothers who owned the Brantlet. Is that the Brantlet behind it? O'Connor, they owned it as well, but they owned the one on Pleasant Street. And then that big one gone. So last, they owned that property. They owned the property, but when the town, there's a working agreement between the town and the owners of parts of it than the house that are the town's responsibility versus the owner's responsibility. Yes, and then the condo association owns it? The condo association owns it? Not the condo association, but the majority own holder of the condo association. Okay. So I have a motion. Motion to move to 500, 458. Yeah, perfect. Then seconded. Is there a second? Second. Any other questions? Charles and then Grant, and then Michael. Is there a working as a lawyer in this department? That's the agency, each other. So the current town council used to be that, used to do that when he was the deputy town council. He was brought on to take, to focus on that, so that that position is there, Steve. But he has the ability to, obviously, follow. Steve, if you remember when Ed Malingo retired as a compensation officer, they did a new direct job description for that position, which gave a new title of deputy town council slash work was caught. So that's, that's a position that's facing. So in the, in the workman's comp process, and I'm not trying to pretend that I know much about it, but I recall that there was some sort of fund that existed, but it ran between $100,000 and $200,000 different years. Is that fund still around? Or what happens to these, you know, the. I think it's a different budget. It's not a different, because they normally, the past few years, they used to talk to us about it, but it was somebody else's. So it's not in there. It's, if you look in the, like, it's somebody who has worked, or just like, it's in the insurance. Yeah, sure. It was somebody else's, but less. Grant. Yes, thank you. Sort of a foreshadowing, because I don't really think that you knew the answer or they even asked the question or that there is a good answer. But so under the offsets here, so the offsets are basically, you know, not to go to the water sewer, but pretty much this is what the water and sewer department paid the legal part. So what did they pay them for? How much did they, how much work did they do on the water and sewer? I'm sure you didn't ask it. And I bet they won't answer, but it's a foreshadowing because it's 121, and it went up, went up 3.5%. Yep. Well, I, so conversations with Sandy. I understand conversations with Sandy. I've had conversations with Sandy, too. And Sandy's no longer here. Right. But I'm wondering if there's some, some way that you can like probe and say, hey, how much work did you do for the water and sewer? I think we should be able to ask that question anytime I'm asking, but he doesn't work for lead. But he manages them. Well, well, I just know I, that's why it's foreshadowing. You're playing on asking him. But Sandy had explained to me that it's just mathematical calculations. Well, that's right. So I mean, I can, a formula said he has, he had a big formula when I asked him. And he said, last year, he said it was in the works to review the formulas and the allocation among the departments, but then we were pretty good. Yeah. So those, those are, those mirror the kind of conversations that I've had with Sandy and with many other people and stuff, but it doesn't really address the question. Okay. So, so that's basically the rates and we pay a consultant company to do that and all that. But the basis behind that is that these people do work for water and sewer. So I can figure we would ask the legal department what kind of work. I mean, the town manager, they also have an offset and they also do lots of work for water and sewer. It's also a triple digits. It also goes up three percent every year. And I'm sure they do work for them. I'm just wondering what kind of work they do. I mean, is it contracts or what is it? No idea. I mean, and so that's, that's only the question. I didn't expect. Well, though, I had asked previously the answer was it's in a chart somewhere. I know. I know it's a calculation, but it's a calculation based on work. I think maybe not. But anyway, that's the question. Excuse me. Brant says foreshadowing the town manager will be in on on Wednesday. And is there any question? She has said they could ask them like for how much work they do on it. I mean, we have to ask the town manager to ask the legal department how much work they do on water. I would like to hear from the town manager how this is calculated because it is a formula and how old that formula is and whether there is an opportunity now to review that formula. I too have heard from Sandia more than once that it was going to review or read thoughts and it never happens. It's a good time now to revisit that and let's start with what town manager may be able to tell us on this. That sounds good. I, and again, we talk about doing that, but there's two different things in play here. It's easy to say. Well, it's a calculation, but it's a calculation based on what they do. So, and I understand, you know, I've been through, the study was done over 12 years ago and it didn't explain how they came up with the ratios, but how they come up with the ratios might have something to do with how much time they spent on it. Well, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe they don't really have to do any work, I guess. And that's what we want to hear from the town manager. They don't really have to. They just allowed. Yeah. Michael, I think you had Panda. Yeah, I've never met a lawyer who know how much money was going out in the office or somebody from work, but that lawyer couldn't do himself a person. No, I mean, I think when you drill down the expenses, they can, I don't have in my notes from last year. I don't know about this year, but they just don't line I know all of these expenses, partially because in the budget, they're anticipating where things are going to be and what kinds of cases are going to come up where they'll need outside counsel. So at the budgeting process for the next year, it's just a guess that whether they're going to need environmental attorneys or labor attorneys. It goes up, it goes down, it's snow plowing, we can't tell. They, I mean, they, they, the reason last year, so we knew about the, they had given us a heads up last year about there's a police case, we'll probably have to keep budgeting for that. And then it turned out, the detective looking this year, they said, I don't know what's been resolved. So that's why there's a decrease. So they sort, they try and anticipate, they've done alert us this year to any substantial increase needed for this budget. But there may be that we won't know until until when the case comes up and then or when outside counseling is made. It seems a question that comes up frequently in time being, how much is XYZ case costing us in addition to the salaries and, you know, making office wrong already. So it's, it's in this number and I'm sure at town meeting, they could say such case is costing us such, but that's a historical number, right, and we're looking at the budget for the future and that you don't know because we haven't been filled yet. We don't know what's going to settle. No, no. Charlie. Seems to me that there are sorts of categories there and they're probably attracting units. Yes, we just suggest they put everything in expenses. This work. Is there nothing tracking categories? My understanding is that all those just under general category expenses. Yeah, and the whole scheme of things and we we're not, it's mostly upset counts. It's mainly due to the couple hundred, right, dues are a couple hundred, legal databases are sort of a set number, you know, for your West law searches to look at cases, to look up all that kind of stuff. It's just sort of set numbers. Your big thing is outside counsel. We can get them to do two months. We could get them to do two more. You know, in the past, I don't have it in my answer, but they have said which firms they tend to use. They don't need the one or two firms. They tend to go back to labor or environment. Certain firms have certain expertise and want to contract and negotiate. And this one comes to mind. They did happen, but I don't know. The newer property, as we all know, there'll probably be another 10 years. Yeah, breaking it out. Because of all kinds of things. Breaking it is a different line, as I think it's not sufficient for somebody should have to be there. But I don't think it really impacts this budget at all. Any other questions? I was just curious about this. I noticed that the new town council has a step, but the old town council did not. Right, because he's new to the position. So I think it just covers a partial. You get a step until you reach the max, or you have a step until you reach 50% of the max. And then you don't get a step. Any other questions? It's Charlie. All right. So we have a motion that's been seconded for 500, 4,428. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. unanimous. What do we have for us? We can do planning. All right. We'll do planning first. And then we have to come in. And then we'll be finished with all of this. That's piece 71 on the planning. All right. Planning takes seven years. So the first joint salaries and wages last year. So there's an increase. We asked a question following up on the office manager position because that went up when in fact last year we were told that they were going to try and hire at a lower level that they weren't able to. And it got put off to HR and just said the higher number is what HR needed in order to hire somebody for the position. So there was. And then the longevity is just a decrease from the change the previous year because last year's budget, the current planning director got put in place after last year's budget started was already printed. So she was there two weeks. I think when we interviewed her, she'd been in the position for two weeks last year. So she she wasn't familiar with the budget. And those numbers were were based on her predecessor. So that's why there's a change in longevity because that was her predecessor's budgetary in previous year from 2022 actual. And then the big decrease is just the directors. And if I could be on 5160, the stipends, that's a stipend that is paid for and actually they call it a stipend, but it's a fee that is charged for work done from the conservation community, a private vendor. They do measure something for the conservation community. So that's what that 825 is. And then expenses, the 5203 last year was a desk this year. It's office equipment for the $500. The auto allowances or allowance for going around and looking at the sites, et cetera. I Jews and subscriptions are based on the employees and the types of specialties they have and where they have to be accredited. The training similarly. So the training was a big increase. Last year, we were told that it would increase. We were warned in the hope was that it would be to cover per diems and the stays in addition to the actual fees for the training. I think we were told this year. It's not actually what's happening. This is actually more training because they have noticed the town meeting numbers. I do we informed on issues, especially on zoning and planning and develop. So they make want to make sure that the staff is equally as up. And this is so that they can answer all the town meeting number questions. Everything else is basically level and no changes. He asked about the status of economic development, which is one of the questions we always ask. Last year, they mentioned needing more teeth and penalties for vacant properties. And there is a warrant like that's going to be, yeah, they put in a warrant. They want to change the policy and make more strength in the wording of the policy plus increase the fines, right? Because it's not really having the effect that we used examples of vacant space in the, in the center. Some examples like public genomes have been vacant. Tango now Tango on the other side of Mass Ave. And is it Chinese restaurant done? Method Street. Well, in the planning, they're going to put apartments on top of where Papa Genos is. And that's all going to be rehab. And it's going to go around the corner to somewhere a little bit down Memphis Street includes the Chinese restaurant. One of the problems they're having right now is the people who lease the Chinese restaurant will not release the lease until the lease expires. Why who knows? But that's a thing of Tango on the other side. They've been having, there's been people interested in renting that space. But I guess the owner of the property is somewhat contagious. And it's every time someone tries to rent it, they get into some type of discussion with the owner. And they also have plans. The Heights Business District has been broken down into seven different type of business districts within the Heights itself. So they take a look at the Heights and see how they can, what they can do to draw different types of business into Heights. And while they're doing that, East Allington now is running into a situation with some of the restaurants that were down there. That's that. I'm not here anymore. Great. That's great. So now that's created a different empty spaces in East Allington. But it's like a secret. It goes in a circle. So that's what's good. That's what's going on there. So that was a training office supplies. The 5236 Conservation Commission expenses. The same as every year. It's explained as being the wetland permit fees and the local fees. There's a conservation commission offset down below. This is also MACC training, which is regulatory. Because this is regulatory body, you need specific training to be able to work with the conservation efficiency. So that covers those costs. And 5354 is the technology, economic development. This is the dashboards and the software to keep track of the vacancies. So I think that there was at some point that had last, but the money is there for the contract to run that system in that dashboard to track vacancies in town. So with that, we recognize the approval of the planning taxation total of 655 39 seconds. Any questions? Hey, um, thank you. Can you explain the offsets in this budget? So does the buying from empty spaces? No, the offsets. So, for example, the conservation commission offset is for work done for the conservation commission. Stay with all of those. It's work done by the planning development for those. The CDBG is, some of the CDBG funds are allowed to be in administrative, yes. So in the CDBG budget. Or the administrative offset, right? But I think the school offset is work done for the school committee. And that's all kind of shared position. Did that answer your question? Yes. Thank you. Charlie and then talk. Thank you, Madam Chairman. So, for example, in the recent discussions, for the zoning changes, there are obviously, I think there are consultants used to provide some of the input that that's for you. And there's been consultants used in other recent projects by the planning department. Where is the money coming from for these consultants? And I think they were, of course, I'm just going to say grants. They grant different plans. They have a number of different grants. Thank you. Go for it. Other questions? Sometimes I was going to go back to the site. If it's not grants, sometimes it's also a line item in the thinking one of our other budgets, like expenses, like town meeting approves X amount or one article, right? So if it's not one, it's the other, right? So we have a motion for 6559 seconded. Second. Yeah, still best challenge. No, I just want to respond. Charlie, there's some, there's some monies or consultants in the capital. Thank you. Anything else? Anyone else? All right. All in favor of motion for 65539, say aye. Any opposed? All right, unanimous. We have only four minutes late. We have one more. I'm the manager. Oh, redevelopment board. Can you do redevelopment? Yeah. All right. It's 78. Okay, so one was a 10% increase. Yeah. So the, the one question we had on redevelopment board. I think did you gain the answer in this one? You want to wait to wait on this one? No, we can, we can. I mean, folks have questions that you can ask me right. But I just don't remember. This is on page 76, right? 76. So it's the redevelopment board that comes under the direction of the planning. Director. Yeah. There's just a $2,000 increase for advertising and print. Right. I'm going to $12,000. Second. Second. All right. Any questions? All right. All in favor of moving to food, $12,800. Say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Time is running out. Say thank you very much. Okay. We have one left and we'll see you next time. Sorry. Is that the time we have? We have the time on the end of the budget. All right. We have the time on the end of the budget and we have the library. And so we have libraries and record ratings go. We also have adder meeting with out-of-the-field services with the employees to be seen. Council on Aid Games. The PDI that are on the spectrums. Council on Aid Information. So if you have questions about any of those budgets, please get a email to Rebecca or I, soon, because you won't be doing them either Wednesday or that's Monday, depending on the answers to some questions. We already have. So you might get your questions answered at the same time. So we will be meeting with the town manager on Wednesday. Then with the time we have left, we'll go back to you, David and Sophie, and then we'll turn to you, Rebecca, and Annie to see how far we can get. And then whenever we don't finish, we'll pick up on Monday. We want to do the police fire and the technical services and any other budgets. I will check with people on Wednesday to see what budgets may be done next week. Any thing that has the full feature? Thank you very much, Dave and Sophie. And I'm going to back to Annie. I'll be starting so quickly. And I think we really are starting well. You get our stuff done. All right. Thank you.