 ADC crisis depends as interim leadership dismisses expulsion of presidential candidate and Labour Party now hot cake as politicians hustle for its ticket. This is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anna Cole. Members of the African Democratic Congress ADC who identify themselves as the interim leadership of the party have dismissed the expulsion of Dumebe Kachiku, Rao Fumoso, the national chairman of the ADC, had announced the expulsion of Kachiku, ADC presidential candidate and other party chieftains over alleged anti-party activities. Earlier in September, the presidential candidate was suspended after he supported the call for the party's chieftains who asked Ngo Su to resign after 17 years in office. In an interview, the interim leadership said Ngo Su is the former chairman whose tenure has elapsed and all expulsions and suspensions from him are merely diversionary and a face-saving measure. Well, joining us to discuss this in-depth is Ahmed Bahari, he is the Vice Presidential Candidate of the ADC and Makala Chimugu who is a media consultant. Thank you so much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you for having me. Great. I am going to start with you of course, Ahmed, because you are the Vice Presidential Candidate of the ADC. There have been so many conflicting statements about what's going on in the party. I tried to speak with Mr Rao Fumoso. Unfortunately, I was unable to get him to be here to talk about this issue. But give us a picture of what exactly is going on in the ADC and this is just a few days before the campaign starts in earnest. Exactly. Mary, a few days ago, about the 21st of August, 2022, the tenure of the National Working Committee elapsed. Before then, we had forcefully, undemocratically, unconstitutionally removed the United States. That angered all the colleagues of that state chairman and they all came down to Abuja and they had their colleagues reinstated with immediate effects and that they are looking forward to the planned National Elections Convention since the National Working Committee's tenure elapses in a few days. They have quickly put together a kangaroo neck meeting announcing their own tenure allegation by one year. So that means I would have to go through the election cycle. And when this matter started creating unnecessary, the President of the Party, the Presidential Candidate of the Party, decided to wait in and when he heard both sides, he said to everybody that in all honesty, your tenure has expired, whatever you did on the 25th of August, futility because at that time you were no longer, after 17 years as a National Chairman, which is also unconstitutional. Oh, Amal, I think we're having a problem with you. We're losing half of what you're saying. I don't know if it's your connection, but it's very difficult for us to make out all the things that you're saying. So we'll try again. I don't know what this is, but let's try again. Okay. So I'm just saying that basically, Chairman, you know, undemocratically removed the State Chairman of Abya States, Chairman, who came to Abuja, and they resolved that their colleague be reinstated. And that's the demand that I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry to cut in. We're going to have to take you out and bring you back in because we're not hearing half of what you're saying so that we can get the gist of this matter. But while we're trying to do that, I'll toss to you, Michael. Michael, you used to work for somebody within the party some time ago, just before the presidential primaries of the ADC. And I think you and I have spoken about some things that transpired during the primaries. But if what the vice presidential candidate is saying is anything to go by, he's talked about the fact that the tenor of the chairman of the party had elapsed and that everything that he's done seems to be an exercise in futility. But if that tenor had expired, as he said, how come an interim leadership or some form of by-election or Congress wasn't held so that they would have another leadership in place to avoid this drama that's playing out? Yeah, thank you. You see, I've never been a Pokemon in the traditional sense of it, so I would not present myself as though I knew everything that's going to happen, you know, by the rules of the party. But I also know that for part situations like this, there should be internal conflict resolutions, mechanisms that should be able to take care of these situations. First of all, I do not know if it's the place of the presidential candidate to be the second chairman of parties on which platform is running. You know, but both the chairman and the candidate have handled these things in a way that does not encourage people with integrity next time to want to place small party politics. Because everything the chairman himself has said between June and now has further indirectly proven his inefficiency, especially, and it also vindicated most of us who kicked against the activities, the events in Abiyaputa and back in June. If there's a presidential election coming up, and the party says it's going to be a distraction for us to do this now. I don't know if it's the candidate himself that has the powers to come out as a certain chairman. You know, I'm installing an interim body, you know, but is it a party thing we are here to observe? Let's talk about the criticisms of, you know, the party chairman. Now, one would think that as this crisis is rocking the party, INEC would step in, but it seems like INEC is somewhat silent. And as we all, as we gather, Mr. Mosul has been the party's chairman for over 17 years. This is what we gather. And now the National Executive Committee of the party had recently constituted an eight-man Ketika committee to pilot the affairs of the party following the expiration of Mosul's executive. Now, that board that is sitting right now is the one that's taking all of these so-called, you know, decisions, because you're querying the fact that the chair, the presidential candidate is the one who seems to be sacking, but I don't, I'm giving you information reportedly that this is, these decisions were made by an eight-man committee. So just to correct you there, Michael. OK, you know, you froze for a moment. The screen froze us, so I didn't hear Mosul going to say it. So I'm trying to say that you were asking why the presidential candidate of the party should be the one sacking, you know, the party chairman and, of course, some members. And I'm saying that there was an eight-man committee that was put together by the National Executive Committee of the party to look into this issue. And they were supposed to hold brief while Mosul has stepped away. So, again, I don't think it's the presidential candidate that's running the show, except you know something that we don't. Well, the presidential candidate was the one who broadcast the message that I worked. He was the one who made the announcement that I saw. I didn't see the committee making that announcement, but I started to be corrected. However, I agree that it is undemocratic for any party chairman to be on that seat for 17 years. I don't even think that it agrees to the INEC revisions. And I do not know why this has been allowed to stand, you know. But like I said, we're watching. That aspect of your party doesn't really bother me, you know. We have always stated since June that everything about ADC as a political party is wrong, you know, and I'm glad that at this point in time, both the party leadership and their candidates have proven us right. I don't know if we have Ahmed back. Ahmed, are you back? I've been hearing everything they have been saying. I wanted to be sure that you're back and we can hear you clearly. Now, you heard some of the things that Michael said. Would you like to, you know, react to that before I ask my next question? Yeah, I'm happy that you corrected Michael. The presidential candidate was responsible for the removal of the National Working Committee chairman. I think it's important that for all parties and big parties alike, what we do is to read the constitution of that party, understand what the legalities are. We're still having issues with your audio, Ahmed. I do not know if you're using an earpiece or something, but we're unable to hear you and it's affecting the conversation. So we're unable to hear what you're saying in its entirety. Can you hear me now? Yes, we can hear you, but then some of your words are lost. Okay, I'm saying that the... I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Ahmed, we can't hear you. So I'm going to trust back to Michael while we try to fix your audio. Michael, let's talk more now about the future of the ADC because this is where the conversation is going. Like I said, it's a few weeks to the campaign kickoff proper. All political parties are strategizing and re-strategizing to deal with what the campaign season will throw at them. But here is the ADC, you know, embroiled in this crisis. What does the future hold from an outsider looking in? I think it's safe to conclude that there will be no presidential election for the ADC. First, the chairman of the party has announced... Can you hear me? Yeah, Ahmed, we can hear you, but Michael was speaking. Yeah. Yeah, okay, sorry, I was trying to call one of your staff. If you cannot get me on this platform, we can do a phone conversation. Okay. Who was supporting another candidate's who lost, another aspirant who lost at the prime... Ahmed, I'm so sorry, I think we're going to have to take you off totally, all right, so that we can just concentrate on Michael and then get you back on another platform, all right? Michael, you can continue, please. First of all, I don't know why people have always misconstrued this. I have never spoken out against maybe as a person, as a politician because you know he's a politician who came into the party and was willing to do whatever it took to get a ticket. All the candidates, all the aspirants on the platform, the party at the time would have taken advantage of any situation that would give them, you know, the victory. We have no problems with it to maybe. Our problem has always been with the party because the party provided the system by which everything turned out this way. But that said, the chairman of the party has expelled, the party has expelled their own presidential candidates. And then the chairman himself made two very critical statements. And I'll remind you, a couple of weeks ago, he put out a tweet insinuating that his own presidential candidate was a fraudster. That tweet, I think he still stands there today. He even referred people to Google to maybe his name, you know, and just yesterday or the day before yesterday, he also announced that maybe he's still a member of the PDP. Now, this is him giving excuses for reasons why, you know, this expulsion is necessary. But now the issue for me is not maybe, it is this. Does the party not carry out due diligence before allowing people to run on their platform? This is the big question because the information on Google that the chairman is asking people to go back to, to prove the unsuitability of his own candidate for presidency, you know, that information had been there before the primaries. When Dumebik joined the party two months before the primaries, why did the party not carry out due diligence? And when every other candidate quite found after the primaries, pointing to obviously regularities, why was the chairman, the same chairman was defending both Dumebik and himself? So to come out today and tell the world that my candidate is a fraudster, is a member of PDP, is a pointer to his own failure. It indexed the chairman, not the candidate, you know? So I do not see the thought of the people. We also had a representative of the presidential candidate of the ADC and over and over again, he made excuses. Well, he said that that tweet, in fact, I think it was the chairman of the ADC in Lagos stage who said they cannot verify that tweet, that it actually came from Chief Mosul. They also said that it could have been anybody, but that they respected that the position of the chairman of the party, and they did not think that he would in any way go to that extent. So again, you're saying that that tweet stands, but the party men are saying that that tweet cannot be verified and they're not certain that it came from him. But now let's look at the issue where he's accusing the presidential candidate on his platform of being a member of the People's Democratic Party. It brings back to the question where you're saying where's the vetting? Who vetted these people? But unfortunately, this man's name has been given to INEC. So where do we even start from? It seems like the party is split into two. There are those who are in support of the chairman and there are those who are in support of, you know, Dumebika Chiku. What happens now? Because that's what everybody's wondering. And for those who are ardent followers of the ADC, where do they go from here? Well, I feel sad for genuine followers of members of the party, especially those contestant on their down ballot, because at this point they are stuck. Where the party should have been making available lotistics and other promotional materials for their campaigns and try to win an election. They have been embroiled in this saga. I don't see it ending well. I do not know really our next room. I don't know if Dumebika will still appear on the ballot following his expulsion, because I know that the party is supreme in Nigeria and it's party people are voting for. So if the party is coming up to say this candidate is no longer in our party, I don't know, I don't see how he's going to be on the ballot. Again, I start. A member of the National Working Committee, Akwashi, if I got that name correctly, has come out to say that that particular expulsion is null and void and it's a mere distraction. So again, I do not think that INEC does necessarily have a problem here, because there are people from the National Working Committee of the party who says these expulsion doesn't hold any water. So we shouldn't be worried, should we? Because I mean, they're coming out here to say what the chairman put out is not necessarily the truth. So these are members of the National Working Committee, people who should be working with the chairman who have said that he's been expelled. So INEC shouldn't have a problem here. Well, this is open to INEC's interpretation. So I guess we have to wait to hear from INEC. I'm not an authority in this particular, especially in the legal issues. But like you rightly said, the party is divided, they are factions. There are people supporting taking sides of the chairman and people taking sides with maybe Karchifu. So it remains to be seen what INEC does in this regard. However, however way it goes, whatever INEC says, even if it may be where to appear on the ballot, the point here is that he has not shown any sign that he's contesting running for this election. Like the chairman said, there have been no consultations, no movement on his part to prove that he wants to sincerely campaign for this thing. Recently, just yesterday here, someone told me in-house that his campaign teaching has also left him. You're saying that the party's candidate has not made any movement or showed any... I'm saying the chairman of the party said that. Well, yes, but then you're not a member of the party. And like I said, the members of the National Working Committee have dismissed every single thing that the national chairman has actually said. So if we're to go by what the parties is saying, how do you know that they're not movement within the party plans that looking ahead to the campaign in itself? Merry some things that are tangible and can be seen. For instance, to see the candidate from Labour Party, from PDP and from APC, and even that of the NNTP, you can see they've been going around traveling all over the country and consulting supporters and trying to move people over. Maybe if this was happening, we'll see it. It's not something that is not open for second guessing. So the chairman has said this and we have seen it. This doesn't mean I'm taking sides with the chairman. I'm a neutral observer here. If anything, I've spoken up against the chairman and I put the blame for everything that's happening in the ADC at his table. What I'm saying, we haven't seen maybe as we have seen other presidential parties, the only time we have seen maybe on air has been to fight with either, you know, is party chairman or with my former principal. I don't see that as contesting for elections. All right, we have Ahmed back on the line. Ahmed, apologies for the connection issues. Now, a lot to be said, if your party chairman has been chairman for over 17 years and nobody has questioned this, then all of a sudden, a few weeks to election day, the party now says, oh, his tenor has conveniently elapsed. Should this not cause a question of cost? The integrity of the members of your political party at the highest echelon. Secondly, and there are also allegations from your party chairman that there are no movements, no plans whatsoever, you know, to campaign for this office. Again, buttressing his points that your candidate is not necessarily a member of this party, but a mole from the PDP. I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, we are having an issue. I think it's important for your, what I guess, who you can work for, one of the aspirants are lost at the primary to understand that this is politics. And emotions are sent to them, but always they play to the back. Like I said, there was a situation where the former national chairman removed the obvious state chairman. This is what caused all the state chairmen to now request for the immediate return of your colleague, who's the obvious state chairman. When all of this was going on, they now also reminded the National Work Committee at that time that your tenure as a left we should start working towards an elected national convention. When this resolution was presented before the former national chairman, he hurriedly put together a kangaroo next meeting. And at that meeting, he announced himself on all the national committee members present that that tenure has been elongated by one year. Now this is not cited in the constitution. And so that is why I said it also by saying it's important for everybody to understand what kind of social contract you are getting into when joining a political party. Oh, any association of that matter. At that point in time, people like myself, the presidential candidate may look at me, how to now decide to limit ourselves more with the condition of the party. At that point, we now realize that the party has had a lot to do with the former national chairman as the national chairman for 17 years. This is contrary to the constitution at the time. So at that point, it now became a situation where the presidential candidate had to take a position. Do I stand with the next chairman who wants to remove all of the draft rules because they are trampled on their colleagues? Or do we stand with the national chairman who has been here on grounds of illegalities? And at that point in time, the resolve became that, according to the military, I am going to stand with the constitution of the party. And let me tell you something that happened very clearly. In that day of future, when Kings and Mughals were speaking English on TV, there were other contestants that were actually doing what they call drafts with politics, mixing with the people that really matter and that we forced during the primary. This is a political matter. It is a political exercise. You have to involve politics. Anything that you are speaking that is English, it's English. What is paramount is how are you connecting with the structure that holds the party together? And when you lose at the exercise, you are expected that you will lose honorably and be a good spot for that. Not to go around and slander the protest that was yesterday, you said was fine. So these are the things that I want to understand very clearly. Okay, I- And you say, Rob, we want you to finish the fight back by saying that all of those next chairman have been suspended. The presidential candidates have been suspended. And what is important in all of this on the side is you cannot suspend a party member in a self-fulfilling due process. Okay. In fact, I'm making word sharing my way you registered in your party and actually walk towards a disciplinary action that will remove you from the party as it happened with Adam to Shomale. These are things that I want you to study and understand before we open our mouth to speak about this issue. All right, I have one more question because we do not have time. I have one more question. One more question, just hold on. From everything that you've said, I've held onto something because I really want to make sure that Nigerians can hear this clearly. You're telling me that your candidate picked a political party but did not do due diligence to understand that that person who sat as the national chairman had been national chairman for 17 years. You only just realized a few weeks ago this is what you're telling Nigerians. Ahmed. Sir, can you just let me respond? Please. Can you let me respond to you? Yes. What I'm saying, like I said from the beginning, it is important for Nigerians to always understand what state-of-the-art countries are getting into. Until this state-of-the-art man raised the issue and then went back to the constitution, only then did we find out that the constitution was not support. The contesting of the national chairman more than twice of the four years' help, which is ages maximum. The way we did not notice it and we thought everything was fine, that was the same way people like Tito Mogalu, one year and the rest is not known. What I think maybe you see right now is what I expect Nigerians to applaud because in all honesty, if the way we have said, okay, Salman, what do you want? I am telling you honestly, as we speak right now, nobody will hear about our situation. We would have sat down and you would face it, either if it's your pedigree like Rafa wants you to do. But what he's saying is, I am going to protest, I'm going to the post and I do not want you or anybody to make this thing, to make us lose at the post simply because the national committee is holding on to us and required. I wish that we had enough time to continue having this conversation. But again, there's always an opportunity for these conversations to be had and I'm hoping that Dumebe Kachiku can be on this show so we can talk more. But I want to say thank you to you. Aded Bahari is the Vice Presidential Candidate of the ADC and Michael Achimungu is a media consultant. Thank you so much gentlemen for being part of the conversation. All right, well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. When we get back, we'll be discussing the Labour Party and the task that is ahead of it comes 2023. Stay with us.