 Welcome back. It's been a somber mood here for the course and our incredible guest, Lucy, is brave enough to share her very devastating story. She survived it all. Defilement ran away and took off from FGM, domestic violence, and guess what? She chose to become a hero and she is doing it as she heals. She's also healing others and we can't do much but applaud her here on the nest because it's just incredible how people should be told and reminded no matter what you go through, you have to rise out of it. But we always need help like the one, our special special guest who is our expert of the day will take us through in terms of the mental and psychological effects of such things. Before that, please introduce yourself to our people. Thank you, Maureen. My name is Julius Gutari. I'm a Cassie psychologist with the Kenya Association of Professional Cancerals and I'm in charge of the training department. Yes. It's always lovely to have you with your big smile. I wonder if you ever have moments like us like, let me take a breather. You know, on a light note, you know, the doctor has to see a doctor. Yes. Do you see yourself? I always go for agri-subervations to avoid the cancerous burnout. Yes. That's what gives me the state power. Absolutely. Otherwise, the emotional drainage is too much. Yes. I also grab her down. Absolutely. You're human at the end of the day. Very, very. Yes. And I look because I feel it every time I do my interviews. I go home so drained. I can only imagine for someone like you because there's an expectation to fix and it's not an overnight. And those expectations are unrealistic. Yes, unrealistic. Anyway, I'm sure you've heard of Lucy's incredible story. Correct. From a young girl, she just looks like a fighter and she's been a fighter. She's still very young, but it's unfortunate about what she went through. She was defiled by a person she could have trusted as a father figure having lost her dad and then now dealing with it. And she explained of her coping mechanism and one of them was defiance whereby she was saying I couldn't listen to anyone. And then the other one was finding love, which is always like, you know, you never know what it is because no one teaches you. And in her case, it's very special because she didn't get that motherly love, fatherly love, right, going through domestic violence. And then here we are with this amazing lady saying, look, as I heal, I will carry everybody with me, both men and women who are going through close to what I went through or even worse. Right. So jumping right into it, what happens when a person just looks at a child and when I say, when we're discussing this issue, I want us to think of both the boy and the girl because I'm a mother of boys and I've been aware of the fact that boys are not immune to defilement or rather to sexual assault. Correct. And it scares me so much. Sometimes I even wish I didn't know, but every time I'm like suspicious, like, why are you looking at my child like that, you know? And it's just a motherly instinct. Sure. And again, in law school, we came across all these issues and it's so unfortunate. But psychologically, let's talk about the person who, the defender. What goes through such a person's mind? Thank you, Madam Maureen, for this gesture. Yes. Before I go to that, I want first of all to congratulate Lucy. Yeah. She's a true heroine. She is. Thank you. And I want to appreciate and congratulate her for that unifying beauty of her heart. Yes. That even the midst of those turmoil that's still come out as very unique and especially underpocket to talk about these taboo things. Yes. Which has been culturally accepted as a normal way of life. You know? So, and also coming from the culture whereby FGM is part of the past of our cultural identity. Right. Then definitely I want to congratulate her. She has done, explored. Congratulations. She has. And I wish you success in your endeavor. I ask you to make noise. Let us make noise like the amount of NTSA. Yes. Yes. And we'll be here to support you. Yes. And don't shut up. Do not. Yes. Yes. And actually this is not about the case of Maureen. Yeah. And she's just an exception now. Yes. But not Maureen who has gone through this. Yes. Sorry, not Rusea who has gone through this. Yes. Sorry for that. It's okay. Many ladies have gone through the canteen. Yeah. They have been burdened and butchered by life circumstances and the mercy of very innocent protectors. I'm not saying that. Like you are putting them. Yes. And actually people who defile. Yes. The young children because defilement is for young children and not to sleep. So people who defile this innocent children like Lucy at the age of six years. These are people whom you cannot suspect because they are too close to the child. Yes. These are the people that even the mother cannot even think. It's true. It's even a thought of defining a child who can come to them. They are the most trusted people ever. Yeah. And that's now when whatever they do is the material of the highest level. Yeah. Now as for the case of Lucy, three challenges have been picked from now this time that she has undergone a significant thrust of losing that. Yeah. The protective figure. The protective figure. Yes. And the mentor. Yes. The security of the coach and everything to her. And the being a girl. You know, the dance and the girl, whatever the relationship. Very, very good. Yes. Yeah. Now that's just undergone through a significant thrust in her life that she require help. And the pressure that's just on the eating journey. Actually those tears are not a symbol of weakness. Yes. The indicator of the healing process. Yes. The value of tears. Yes. Just on the journey, which is very important. Yes. She has been traumatized. Yes. Is a very strong, very big wood she has gone through, which is both physical and psychological. Yes. And so the capture, now the emotional dimension that I'm coming to talk about. Mm-hmm. And the number three also, she has also made herself jumpy from the fire because of now the domestic violation she has gone through. Sure. This compound now everything. Yes. And it's become a very, very challenging thing. But in her story, in her narration, I've captured also something like a psycho. Yes. Her mom. Yes. Learn away from the marriage. Yes. Similarly, she also took off when she was put in a corner where she could not remove herself. True. So she, in the healing process, she required to be handled in all those dimensions. Yes. And so now memory, let's talk about now somebody who has become a victim of this kind of a situation. Mm-hmm. Now, beginning with now the rape, that's all the defilement. Mm-hmm. And defilement first and foremost, what it has done, it has, it has shuttered her interpieces. Mm-hmm. First of all, she could not be able to voice it out. Mm-hmm. Why? These are confident. Yes. She could not. Yeah. Number three, number three, where she's coming from, the culture. She doesn't have a say. After all, she's a woman. So woman. She's a woman. Yeah. And the threat of silence. Yes. Yeah. And so as a result, I want to hang on to that. She has not even developed depression. Mm-hmm. And she has also not committed suicide. I want to hang on to being, having somebody that kind of want to. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It is this flower which has been eaten by the wall. Mm-hmm. And at the same time, somebody come and they cut the binding. Snip it on top. Yeah. And they mutated it. Yeah. But the beauty is that the threesome. Yeah. The, the, the, the trunk has not been approved. Yes. Yes. I agree. And it's good now to be a very, very sprouting trunk. Yes. Yes. So in terms of the psychological devastation. Mm-hmm. When somebody has gone through that, there is this kind of a sense of despersonization. Sometimes I don't know that she has reached a point of feeling whether am I really the one or it is someone else who thinks that happening. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There is this point of depersonalization. Mm-hmm. There is also the aspect of being sometimes, because of what happened, she can develop a state of, of don't care. Mm-hmm. This don't care now make her to be very promised course. Mm-hmm. Let me put the promised course in quotes. Yeah. Yeah. Because now of what she has gone through. Mm-hmm. So nobody can also engage into alcohol and the drug abuse as a way of learning from the psychological pain. Mm-hmm. So she get the best counselor who is in drug and sometimes abuse to escape. Mechanism. To escape. Yes. But remember escaping is also been a problem. Yes. And if she never got also a helper. Yes. Sleep disturbances the end of the day. Oh yeah. Like human. If they disound us like anorexia nervosa or ombrymia nervosa can be a challenge for a case. Mm-hmm. So also is now developing the male chauvinism. No man appeal to her. That's true. Men are worse than the devil in hell. Yeah. So that is male chauvinism. Mm-hmm. And I hope that is not the reason she has come up with this kind of an organization. Mm-hmm. Because it can be a psychological reaction to the pain she went through. Mm-hmm. But with the journey of the healing process that she's through. Mm-hmm. So she can hate men. When gone she didn't develop the hatred for men because she got married. Yeah. So that dimension has shook up so much so strong enough. Yeah. I want to congratulate her. Yes. And similarly now her future. Mm-hmm. If she has progressed academically and she has performed very well. Yeah. Is the favor of God is a grace of God not because whatever. Yeah. So somebody get devastated in all those dimensions. Mm-hmm. And now they become careless. Mm-hmm. Sometimes they develop depression. Mm-hmm. Sometimes they become very, very irritable. Mm-hmm. And many times every time they see the image of a man it takes them, it flashes back. It takes them down. Somebody was happy all of a sudden. It's like a ball that has been deflated. Mm-hmm. Of the energy. Mm-hmm. And then there is the visit with the drone. Mm-hmm. And that being alone again is not something very, very, very, very, very good. Mm-hmm. But I want to appreciate Lucy because if she was able to voice it out, it is the mind that has found itself. Yeah. And it is very, very, very, very important. Mm-hmm. This is early day we can also have a lot of problems in marriage. Not because the spouse is bad, but because every time even the spouse wants to become intimate, the mind goes back to the perpetrator. Mm-hmm. And this can even cause conditions like vaginismus. Mm-hmm. Why? Because she can't function sexually well. Yeah. Because of this, the injury she has gone through. Mm-hmm. And so, and then the problem with the Africa is that when somebody like that happened, when she developed a condition like vaginismus, we don't want to understand is a psychological condition. We want to attach witchcraft to it. You remember a kamute. A kamute is just our mental composition which is not functional because the injury she has gone through. Mm-hmm. So, it can also make her to be a very, very brutal spouse in a relationship. Mm-hmm. She leases just quarrels from nothing. There's no apparent because. Mm-hmm. But she always gets a reason for quarrels. Okay. So they can bring a challenge. Mm-hmm. And maybe something, maybe to wrap up that before maybe is this issue about now the mom taking off. Because also the marriage is not very, very, very productive. There is a challenge when somebody has gone through the kind of a situation to also start attracting other scavengers that the spouse you get is also somebody, you get attracted to the same dysfunctional people because now like the spouse she also started now doing exactly what was happening to her mom. Mm-hmm. So it becomes now a cycle. Mm-hmm. A cycle. Mm-hmm. And so intervention is very, very, very important. Okay. Yes. Okay. I hear you and I can see the connection of the trauma. Mm-hmm. And the reactions. Yes. That a person will partake. Correct. Should, for instance, the coping mechanism. Mm-hmm. And I could hear a lot of things that Lucy was mentioning. She was indicating herself. Mm-hmm. We didn't go into the details of how ex-partner, but you see, does any of these sound familiar? Like are there things you're like, hey, that was me. That was me. You know, even for your own recognition, because sometimes we don't forgive ourselves and we label ourselves thinking there's something wrong with us. But in reality, sometimes it's good to hear that it's normal to have reacted towards some circumstances. Did any of that sound familiar? Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Because even then when I was in marriage, there were times I didn't want to talk to my partner. Yes. I would even go silent for a week without no reason. Right. Yeah. And I would even cry. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Each and every morning I would wake up, especially when I was now pregnant. Mm-hmm. Wake up and start crying. Yes. And then after he has gone to work, I'm okay. Right. Yeah. Yes. Other things you have talked about. Actually, I went into depression. Mm-hmm. I had to use antidepressants. Mm-hmm. And one thing that made me to come out, I remember there was a time I almost killed my kids. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know. I felt that they were making noise for me. Mm-hmm. And then I felt that I was struggling. Mm-hmm. The mother and neighbor had to rescue them. Yes. That's when I realized I was not so crying. Yes. Yes. And I had issues with Yes. sleeping until now. Mm-hmm. I have not like... Automatically fall asleep. Yeah. Yeah. I usually have a pattern. Mm-hmm. Once I interfere with it, I can't sleep. Ah, see. Yeah. Yeah. When I go to sleep, I have to either switch off my phone Okay. Or put it away. Yes. Because if someone calls me and they had only slept for 30 minutes. That's the end. That's the end. Until the following day. Right. Yeah. Right. And another thing, I felt that was much okay with me. Mm-hmm. When I have just small like stress. Yes. Are you all right? Yes. Yes. Yes. It's coping. Yes. Yes. These are some of the things. And then there are times that I felt, now before I started this healing journey. Mm-hmm. There's a time I felt like, you know, I didn't want to even to have male friends. Yes. Near me. Yes. I felt like they were the problems in all the things that we got. Yes. But now that is changing. Yes. And I didn't like attending social events. It's not that I'm trying to do that. Yeah. I used to, I wanted to stay with my kids in the house. I don't want to associate with people. Right. And then I was a social media addict. Yes. Something I'm trying to do. Yes. To get so on. Yes. So I would spend even 20 hours on social media. Yes. Just wanted to see what people are talking about. But I don't want to be in real life. Yes. I don't want to associate with people. I understand. You wanted something to attach yourself on without really showing up. Yes. Right. And again, I'm taking a few things out of this. Very important. Some of the things I'm taking out of it is I think even when we are marrying our spouses, when we are dating, and this also goes to you young people. If you feel like someone is irrational, they're acting a certain way, one of the things I think we need to normalize is asking questions. It has anything ever happened to you as a child that you feel you're still dealing with? And we cannot self-diagnose, but it's good to be aware. And anyway, that's why we have a show like this so that we can hear from an expert like you. We can hear from a survivor like Lucy and also even someone at home would think, oh, wait a minute, maybe my wife could have gone through something and maybe that's why she acts the way she does. And the truth of the matter is a lot of our childhood traumas, extreme horrible cases like Lucy's or that abandonment or rejection, it's manifest itself in future. I know because I went through abandonment and I found myself also attracting the kind of people who are exactly like the person who abandoned me. And until I dealt with it, everything turned around and it's the change begins with you. And what you're doing, Lucy, is so incredible, your life will literally never be the same. And now it's good to also maybe this is going to be our last aspect and I think it's a very important conversation which I've been trying to really get you to touch on. But Lucy, may I ask how old are your babies? One is almost 11 years and the other one is turning in October and hopefully boy, girl, girl. Both girls. Both girls. Yes. I want to know your mental status every time you're with them and what kind of a mother you've been realizing that these are girls like the girl I was years ago. Have you do you struggle with the fear of somebody doing the same thing to them? Yes. Before I came out to talk about this, I think I was a toxic mom and my family had met. They were even I was shouting to them and maybe didn't realize something that right now I'm seeing with my first born because maybe she picked it from me. Yes. She's there's some moments that I feel she's shouting to her young sister something I'm trying to correct and something she picked from me and I'm overprotective Yes. Something that when I'm around I don't want them to go away somewhere that they cannot see them. You cannot control the circumstances. I have to watch their every move. Yes. I'm very overprotective with my kids I don't allow them to go somewhere that I'm not sure where they are going. If they are going somewhere then someone that I trust. I don't think like I trust many many people to be around my kids. Yes. Especially at a delicate age because like your young sister around the same time there's unfortunately circumstances happened so because we're about to wrap up maybe you can just in two minutes tell us ideally as parents what we should watch out for what we should tell our children so that they're able in case anything happens I started a long time ago and I've told my boys nobody should touch them in various places and we revisit every week has anyone touched you here you need to tell my in case anything happens I know that and in as much as I can build that wall there are times many hours a day I'm not with them when they're picked up by the school van when they go to visit their friends but I think this is the aspect of empowerment but I'd love to know what are the things we should tell our kids so that a little girl like little Lucy or little Lexie like mine will be like you know like child language what can we tell them so that they're able to communicate with us parents or the caregivers yeah thank you Maureen yes and again as you want to appreciate Lucy yes and maybe to let my sister Lucy to know also over protection is not parenting it's not the right way of parenting because you're only addressing your need for mistrust that you're having what is there is that parenting is supposed to be 50-50 sharing so that's why you need to be engaged in this now for the young children remember they are different from us in terms of communication so they don't have enough language to express themselves so one way to and they are really modeling a lot from us one way to be able to communicate to them is first of all in the house to have an open dialogue the house should not be a military camp and together remember it's only the parents the children are objects they must be freedom to for the children to hear their views and as they are hearing their views you perceive they speak it to you that's another recommit another agent speaking to you so don't see them as children and for them to tell you you shouldn't be on the same level so you don't stand anybody who is bigger than a child that's a giant needs to go down it's true if possible when you are there they want to read with you very well then create time because and today because you are career spouses to us have about that minute with your children that's more than enough that's a minute and during that time if they are young do even body search do body investigation what's going on don't know so do body search especially when they are very very young then don't shout at the children sure don't shout and this print is derived from the Latin one disciple which means learning through instructions children are learning through instructions so don't shout if the station between the spouse and the wife don't bring it in the presence of the children wait for the children to sleep then you can now jump on one another if you have if you have the jumping time so safe space safe space then watch they are play because now that they can talk with you they always play with the toys watch when they are playing with toys like if this child is picking the doll and speaking to one doll you have pinched your ears you need to know that that is exactly what the environment is talking to her they are now acting true see the kind of play they are engaged in when you see a child probably with your travelling bag they are opening it and entering inside they are telling that I saw a dirty person in a coffee that's why they are most interested see their acts and then also allow them to have to draw see them give them a piece of paper let them draw and let them explain to you what it is what it depicts because that's the language for the children they are to their opinion and whatever they tell you trust true whatever they tell you trust because they are the expert of their life and they are very innocent so they don't have the capacity to make up things perfect yes so if we do that then if things if we cannot be able to raise that kind of a situation then also let us seek expert help help over and above our house helps when they come before we hand them over the house to take care of our children we need to do that orientation actually you know some day they are coming on Sunday and their money is about to be the office is at 7 so we didn't get time for orientation true our house doesn't need to be orientated then also let the children know that the only person with access to their body yes it's only the mom actually it's only the mom true because some parents are also suffering from from paraphernalia it's true is the mom and this mom should be such a trusted mom that even when you learn the secret from the children you don't go to the to the public because even children have got their own image to protect so when you do that things will be okay and also remove that aspect of being an authoritative character figure and when the dad is tough let the mom become when the mom is the descendant of the family let the dad become so that when they trouble from one other parent they can get security from the neighborhood then also learn about your neighbors know the neighbor because sometimes we almost enter the same door but you don't know your neighborhood know their children and know how they are doing don't say that these have come here welcome them receive them very well they might tell you secret which you don't know about your child I agree thank you so much absolutely and anyway the community raises the children sure and I think that's such amazing wisdom because it's instilling the empowerment sure so lastly Lucy where can people find you and what's the name of your organization I am all over social media Instagram Facebook I use Lucy Oisiko okay and also the name of my organization back in my Gory County it's called Me For High Empowerment Me For High Empowerment Me For High Empowerment Me For High Empowerment it is I have a page on Facebook also I'm in another organization here in Nairobi when I'm not in Korea here participating with them in Nairobi it's called RUKA initiative yes and they can get me through people who want to yes to book an appointment with me or someone has an issue want to talk about their their goals through the same thing with me they can reach me through 07 15 56 37 7 2 wonderful yes great thank you so much for joining me thank you for this my heart has been thumping I didn't realize how much everything took a toll on me because I'm also speaking as a parent I'm speaking as a woman in the society who has a voice and every time I sit here even when I interview my guests I'm also learning I learn a lot and thank you so much for honoring us with your presence thank you great so guys you here I think I cannot add anymore in terms of protecting our kids from these monsters because we are not going to sugarcoat it here let's empower them let them know that you are their friend and little Lucy would have had a place to run to but she did not have it and she is around our kids as we check again this unfortunate issue let's do the right thing also and let's check who is you know even in the neighborhood and eventually we're going to make the world a better place and a safer place for both boys and girls Tomoka Kofi Africa thank you for hosting us thank you my amazing crew behind the camera and thank you fashion clinic for dressing me thank you strands and curls hair for making my hair so beautiful thanks to me for this makeup totally kidding but yes but until next time do have a lovely night take care of yourselves be safe and remember it's okay to feel how you feel and it's good to accept and acceptance leads to healing