 Welcome to vlog Thursday 302 Hopefully the audio sounds good. I Was wearing this shirt my friend Jeff and because I was like, you know It's time. It is it is a time for an evening beer I usually don't start a vlog like this, but it's been a busy day and Yeah, so it seems like a good way to start it. So let me see who I hide in here. Oh Yes Yes, this was from earlier The one chip challenge the It was bad. It was on I don't recommend it We we decided that it we were on event me and Jason Slagle and we I Don't know how this came I I am somewhat to blame because of a while ago people learning that I like spice therefore and the Spicy chip challenges came in and spicy this and now it's a thing that we do is the spicy thing And of course you can only go up and I don't know that we went up. This feels like a bad thing It tastes like cardboard lava. That was the best description not by me But I certainly agree with that assessment of it took me a minute to start the vlog because I'm in my kitchen And living room, you know, it's kind of like open And for some reason and me and Jay from learning like see we were talking about this Sony's cameras are a goopy And when they decide they have changed a setting Such as eye tracking which seems to be on but when the lights were a little brighter behind me I had to dim them because it kept focusing on the back wall not me It just kind of was a weird problem. So that's the thing but nonetheless one chip challenge I don't really recommend it. I don't recommend spilling your beer Only dripped just a little bit, but uh, all right So what else are you here? Good evening greetings greetings? Greetings and salutations. Hello from New York City Good night. I'll watch and record very curious something is 3200 memory clock. You asked me that question and I replied to you No, it doesn't clock at 3200. I don't know why I don't have time. It's not stable at 3200 and sometimes doesn't post Um Yeah beer 30 Ooh, what beer do we have? That's a good question here. This is a My friend Jason Slagle picked those bullet focus on it focus voodoo ranger juice force IP actually I wouldn't have chose this beer and When I was out and about with my friend Jason this beer was one that he had chose for an event We were on our way to and I ended up taking some of them home I like it. It's not bad. I'm not a big like fruity or juice person when it comes to beers I generally like the bitter IPA's, but this is Surprisingly good. So I am I am I like it. So I didn't go. Ooh, I said, oh, this is not bad You can't show your beer but not tell us what you're drinking. Yeah Yes. Oh Is that an OLED in the back? No, that's that's not an OLED TV. Um, I Don't know if that's a 70. I think that's a 70 inch TV, but it's not I know it's not an OLED. I've had it for I Think I bought it in 2019. I don't remember. I've had it for a little while not too long, but a little while voodoo ranger is definitely a lot of alcohol content. There is no doubt about that So, yes Still have plasmas. Oh, yeah, I'm I do not have plasma I have retired those TVs and I I'm a big how cheap can I get it? Can I get it on sale type of person? So that's a part that matters. Hey Brett Here but but clip that on you if you're gonna I I decided to come crash here today. Yeah My wife let me come home later This makes me laugh now. Here's a question because this argument Comes up a lot. Is that TV too high? No, no, I don't know why people think it is I don't that part confuses me because that's I should get a tape measure because now that's gonna be a debate Is my TV too high? Well, what I think people see behind you is is the way the roof comes down because it's yeah Vaulted in the middle and then comes down. So what it looks like is the room bigger So the and the TV is too high, but if you stand next to it That's not too high at all, right? So is my TV too high this can be our debate for the day No, it's not I think it looks fine like it's a good viewing angle. It's perfect. I think it So I no one complains who's over here So and we have a lot of people over sometimes to watch things and I'm taller though That's the problem a Brett's taller. So yeah, that's a thing So so is is that too and what is the measurement for too high? It's it's an opinion on the internet, but there has to be a metric. I mean, this is something we can measure and Quantify right is it too high because I think you've got it centered almost in the I mean We got a little higher than the but you have it centered between Yeah, this the roof line and the stand. Oh, that's right Travis. You can be the judge of this So Travis. Hey Travis. How you doing, buddy? Yep. So is it too high? Well, see I level while sitting that seems too low. I Level while sitting. No, no, I I don't want to be looking. I Mean, it doesn't take much to get my gaze up a little. It's not what I'm sitting down on the couch I think I mean, I'm not straight. I'm a little up, but that doesn't bother me. I guess maybe hmm Center of screen should be I level I'm sitting. I don't know about that. That would put that TV low That would be weirdly low. You have a low couch though. I have a low couch But I I have grandkids for those of you that don't know it's out of reach of grandkids and by the time They're tall enough to reach it. They won't want it. They don't care But if I put it that low because it's a 70 inch TV Then it would be in reach of grandkids That would be bad that would be bad and if for you for those that have kids that are young, you know it I'm talking about. Yeah. Oh, yeah, and that's well. There's another good point there If I gave you a different angle of the house like if you were facing this way You would be in my kitchen. Yeah standing there. This is my like a kitchen counter So facing this way if you're standing at the kitchen you're you're at you're actually probably a little higher than half When I'm standing up. Hey, let's actually walk back there over time. So if I'm standing up me too No, what you but I level standing up is right here Like this is my eye level is at the three quarter mark of the tv So sitting puts me a little below Yeah, I don't see a problem with that. I have a problem with the flowers being there Did you buy those flowers, of course not I just don't like flowers and vases and stuff by my stereo system You know, that's water. I know water damage I did just both center screen. I have a looks fine It's on a tilt mount. What did what did the it's on a tilt mount, which is your head is always tilted up over the city Oh, it is tilted the tv is angled this way like it's uh, that's hard to see And thank you gracing. Yes, if the cloud's not for everyone then iot is not for everyone either Uh, it's the cloud is for some people. It's just not for all the people. It's um That will bring you up in a discussion here Well, here's a whole you know, um Most movie theaters build a vertical stand most audiences are in line with the viewing screen Movie theaters are definitely not eye level. No, no because they're all that the um, the seats are either either at a pitch Or um, yeah, they're never straight on Yeah I think this is the a debate that'll go to the end I suppose if you wanted to be a finicky you could raise your couch ctv I could get a higher couch. I like that answer. Yeah I don't know maybe maybe I don't know Uh, the cloud sucks when the internet goes out. Yeah Gosh, isn't that the truth though? Yeah, if your data is cherished the cloud should be for you That's a big debate um on the cloud topic and You know, I need to probably put together a video on this topic because me and uh, jason's legal We're discussing this uh, and and brett will tell you based on what we do at lorence systems You know, when we talk about selling petabytes of storage That's not going in a cloud. That's someone's data center Which you can argue is a private cloud depending on the scale and scope of the company What at what point do you call the data center a cloud? Is it when you own it is when you own it's always a data center We should probably uh, I try to break down all the rules of how you discuss that I think a petabyte of storage could be considered the cloud with what we built on that. Yeah, I do well But it's for that company to use their personal cloud It's their personal cloud or really it's just a data center at that point. So there's In you know, what's the difference if you own the data center, you don't rent it out to anybody else Is it really called the cloud? It's just called your data center because it's exclusive to their company. It's not used externally and excuse me anyway, so You know, that's uh, but not all companies run things. There's a couple automotive companies some larger ones that are Pulling back from the cloud and this is something we deal with a lot is basically companies You if you want to scale fast the cloud is great because you don't have to plan and buy servers Your capital expenditure is low and capital big capital Expenditures to build a data center are hard when you're a startup So you build things out in your cloud infrastructure And if you want your growth or your growth is um unknown you're hoping to hyperscale You can't afford to Build out the infrastructure because what if you land that next 10,000 endpoint deal? Well, do you have the time to build out the servers to do it? Or is it better to keep an elastic system in the cloud or you can just keep buying more cloud? But once you kind of stabilize in the market and you go all right, I've hit my growth potential I'm growing it a little bit steadier of a rate or a more predictable rate and I can predict my workload Well, maybe at some point you start investing in data centers And this is even you know, you look at something like facebook facebook built their own data centers but not at first and It's something they do once they hit a steady growth and this is where people think it's just static It is where a lot of companies it's makes sense if you're startup and you can take hostify as an example You know, they're at a fast run rate still so the cloud makes sense to them But is there a point in time when riley looks at his cloud build in is one of the most expensive things He has to run hostify is the cloud bill. He may go. You know what my growth rate has kind of tapered and it's steady I could swap this for um two Colos, you know, because this guy's in scale. He operates a number of endpoints He could probably build out a couple small racks and two different colos for redundancy And save a substantial amount of money. I mean there's a cost you have to Associate with this long run over the long run. Yeah, absolutely It's more of a business decision than people realize it's a how you look at things and how you put them on there I thought about maybe I'll do some videos and talk to it. I'd like to get patrick from serve the home He's got a whole great thing of how he saves $26,000 a year hosting himself because he was spending 26,000 more or 50,000 more Now because it's 26,000 a couple years ago and as he's grown by pulling it out of the cloud and running everything locally Right, and I wonder what I wonder what his ROI was on that when when when did he see that? Yeah, and he has a whole breakdown of that. He's got an article from like 2017 That's when he did it. So which means he's got more cost savings today To do Yeah cloud is just somebody else's computer cloud is just vapor and does not support infrastructure nor data Well, we do have a few clients that don't want anything on the cloud I mean they have proprietary information diagrams drawings things like that and they don't want it Transferring over anything on the ethernet ethernet. Did I say ethernet internet internet? It's all on ethernet. It's all on ethernet though. Um, but they don't want that. So what do you do with that? Yeah, um Anyways a little more question here I want to make sure was this Oh, okay. I was just that message. Oh All right, I was employees. I didn't know why they called me and I was like I was on the phone when they called They were replying. I didn't make I was making sure it wasn't anything important. It's not Um, so you think you're getting a net gig appliance Not sure what speed of vpn with a gig internet speed They have all the speeds listed at net gate with all the vpn speeds go check out their site They have them all listed. So I mean I recommend a lot of times like the 4100 is a solid device. I did a review on it I recommend it. Um, if that may not be fast enough or doesn't have enough ports go for the 6100. So they're definitely, um You know, there there's they have it all broke down with all vpn speeds makes it easy Uh Tom, did you ever live in an apartment in your younger years? If so, did you have a home lab at the time? Just curious No, I actually, uh, I bought my house when I was like 19 um But there weren't really home labs then because I'm in my 40s. So you didn't really have I mean I had stuff But it wasn't I think I have a picture of it Somewhere I had a conversation with a client today about our age and we remember the internet as dos Yeah, I had the early days of things wonder if I have Hold on Out to look there is somewhere I have a picture. I've shared it before It's one of my really old photos of computers if I could find it. Uh and Maybe not I don't know. I have to dig around. I have a picture that I've posted on twitter before basically and I have too many pictures So it's not easy to find but it's a photo of uh When I had One of my really really old servers that I used to run that used to run Linux and everything else and it was from The nine it's from well, I think it was probably the pictures from I think 2001 or 2002 So I did have because it was when we first got cable internet Was was in 99 or 2000 right around that so it has been 20 years ago So no, but I never I oddly have never lived well, I briefly lived in an apartment when I was between houses um During a divorce that's as close as I came to living apartment. I've always had houses Uh cost of running your own cloud power makes a decision and cloudy yes Depends where you are in the country. I mean if you're in california power is not cheap Uh, should I run bad blocks? I mean if it all depends the idea of zfs is is going to be Um fault tolerant so it's up to you if you want to exercise those drives before It's kind of a up to you thing It's not necessary because the redundancy if you're running a z2 you can survive a drive going bad But it doesn't hurt it all depends on where's your risk tolerance generally speaking just tom do that No, I got time for that. I just started loading data on it Um and any data I have is always duplicated and more or in some cases is quadruplecated so I didn't realize the count a concept of homelabs was so recent We never called it. We did not use the term homelab It was tom had a server in his house Uh to play games and that was what I was doing 20 something years ago I don't think I heard the term homelabs till you said it Yeah, it's I would say it's been pop homelab has been popularized much more recently Uh cisco has a tool for iMix traffic. It's called cisco It's an open source tool traffic generator What is that called? There's a name of it someone uh t rex There we go, uh So let we I'll drop this sign here actually can share the screen present Share screen chrome tab Share there we go and I'll throw it in here Cameras on a focus so you guys are blurry. Yeah, the camera is decided sometimes it doesn't want to focus I don't I think I think it's because I'm awesome. Oh, no, it was doing this before it keeps focusing on the wall behind me I have no idea why it doesn't like me. It likes the wall. I haven't really got an answer I turned the lights down in the back and it helped I could probably turn them Off and maybe it'll focus on us now In my because yeah I don't it's a weird problem. Anyways, uh, this is a tool called t rex. That's what this is This is what it can do is generate it uh t rex low cost high speeds Uh state full traffic generator, so it'll generate some of the iMix traffic So that's the I mean there may be another tool out there, but at least that one's what i'm aware of that's free and open source I was telling somebody about y2k and uh just felt old. Yes. I did y2k certification Is it it's still It's not bad. It's not as bad as it was See if that helps. He's focusing on you. I'll just scoot back some No, well if I scoot back it's at level with you It's got to be the Lawrence colors. Yeah, it likes your shirt better than me. So I'll just scoot back in it I'm in focus too Because I could move my laptop. I got a pretty long court on it. Right. There we go Uh, yes, y2k certification. Yes, I did that Uh, the whole lab term is a new idea. I use equipment and and is the home isn't true Remember free net. Yep. Fido net. Oh, yeah Uh, the reason I multiple network setup is because I have operate open sense a virtual router They don't know how to add multiple networks next cp and g since they have multiple next-line server Uh, I have videos on networking and xcp and g but you can definitely add multiple networks Uh, t-rex talks about being open source, but I haven't seen utilized by normal people Uh, it's just because even just because it's open source doesn't mean it's easy to use. Um, so it does have Some setup to it. It's not just run it and click and go Maybe someone will make something that does Any tips to lower the power? Oh, I'll retire the r710. It's just not efficient Yes, if you'd like to lower the power in your r710, can I interest you in an r720 or an r730? Each generation of servers, you know, this same question was coming up with the 2900 series, which is the Previous series we started 710 those things were just like blow dryers of heat running out Like they wasted so much in heat. They just weren't as energy efficient So it turned the light off fixed. We're in focus. It is. Yeah, totally magic Lighting Yeah Punching down too close to the firewall switch. Yeah That could cause problems. Dutch orange. Hmm I don't know what that means. You know, it's really close to the orange on this beer. Look at that. Yeah This this beer is company colors. I just realized you're drinking beer and I'm not Do you want a one? No, there's beers in there. All right These are down in the basement, but those those are just regular beers in there other side Other sides all the beer Do you like lights? Have one Yeah There you go. Oh, you both have a beer. I need light because I'm on a diet. Oh, yeah Yeah, they're good. Like they're like actually, I kind of like them They're refreshing because they're there's very little alcohol in those this you sip because there's a lot of alcohol in this Six or seven uh, learn systems. Are you going to renew your y2k certification? You need to be prepared for the next millennium. No, the next problem you have to be prepared for is the 2038 issue That is when the world of technology ends in 2038 That's because the world runs on linux and linux runs out in 2038 Anyone who understands how the time system works in linux will understand that problem or you can just google the 2038 problem Am I gonna I don't think I'm gonna be around by then. I think I'll have wasted away Yeah, because that's I don't know man. It's only 20 more years. I just hope we've got different problems then to worry about living in a farm I'm going to farm of them Yeah 2038 and also Thomas predicted it. Yes Totally did. Oh, when's the next coffee talk with there's a good question for time and bret Um, you actually are going to be working on a few things. Yeah, Sean. Lara and I are going to do a couple Yeah, did you message on I actually I I No, I'm sorry, Sean if you're out there Um, I I will call you tomorrow morning or message you at midnight tonight Yeah, so anyways, yes, um, I have the I moved everything and there's a link in the description of this video for the business technicality channel That's where all the business stuff's going I took a little hiatus from it because of all the travel I've been doing and also Brett my focus is going to be Brett. He's actually going to bring on probably west Spencer, I'm we're hoping that we got to get him on there. We one of the things we wanted to I'm thinking about priorities. Yeah, especially when you think about business, but this isn't about business. It's about tax Yeah, well, we're gonna do the business stuff over there And I encourage anyone who's interested in the business topics go over to that channel. That's where you're gonna find them We're gonna start doing more stuff over there. I'm going to You know, it's it's kind of me structuring the limit how much time I can spend on that one But I have they have all the business talk between him Sean Maybe west pence or a few other people. I want to keep gathering a lot of people who have a lot of knowledge on the business Stuff. So it's not just me also sharing knowledge Jason slaggle said he'd like to participate some of the business stuff I'm like, hey, yeah, put it all together. Have everybody on there. Well, and you've said it before People that are listening to you right now want to hear about the tech stuff, right? You don't want to hear about the business crap. Yeah, so to speak you want the tech stuff That's why breaking up and the channel just makes sense Well, someone called us in our math the 20 38 part of him is almost 16 years away That's wow. I it's it's not because I can't math. It's because I don't know what year it is Wait a minute He's right. Uh-huh so if you think about timeframes between 1918 and 2022 I was born right in the middle of it So you can tell when I was born, but I think about that that it's the same timeframe for me From when I was born to when it was 1918 I'm old. Yeah Do you know how trueness has a thing where you can change network settings? You have to click confirm change applied or we'll revert back. Yes, you have to click save and it And then it goes through a confirm and you have to confirm it You have a test phase and a confirmed phase That way if you lose connectivity, it'll revert back. So yes Does pf sense have something like that? No pf sense does not when you hit when you change your ip address or something in pf sense and you hit apply It applies. It does not test trueness does a test that will revert pf sense does not Um And you're asking if you can build a low power machine. I'm not an expert on the lowest power machines Can you build them? Yes? I don't once you go to 10 gig rj 45 though. You are going to end up having more wattage um So yeah Rounding to nearest uh Rounding to the nearest decade got it. Yes That's what we were doing rounding to the nearest decade. That's as close as I care about the year anymore. Sounds good Well, it just became one you're like 2020 And I stopped counting years. I think and then how that works Yeah, you get to a certain age and you stop counting well that too once you get to a certain age There's like the milestones are i'm 21. I can have a beer at least here in the united states such our legal drinking age Um, which you know, I could buy at 21. That's not always say we started drinking I think I think guys kind of tend to stop counting years in their 40s Yeah, you hit 4o and you're like, okay now what and ladies at age 29. It's just all about it. Yep. Yep Statistically that sounds right. Yeah We all have 2020. Yeah, we all we just kind of like it stopped. It's the years stopped progressing after 2020 What was that I have in my live stream? Oh You know, I I did that video and uh, I have another video and we have some just want to tell you about I've already shot it. Uh, I just got to finish editing it and it's going to be how to manage storage and zen server Um, that's a question people have a lot of confusion about and it's basically and we'll actually share this I can share it on the screen here what the video covers Is how we put everything in I got signed in apparently. All right, cool There there throw it in the share screen so people will see what I'm doing um Let's see Oh Microsoft will solve the 23 since windows will be built on linux by then. Yeah, maybe Uh, but I was setting up these storage demos to show you that you can have a Machine which we should probably log into it. Uh, crash top. So we got something on there But uh, I did a whole bunch of live storage migrations to show you how you can take a running machine and I You know, this is something that you can do really fluidly here So we have it on the local storage and we're going to move it to remote storage And we can do it while the version machine is running So it's just going to take like less than a minute. That's incredible. Yeah, and it's going to move this to Uh, another storage and I did a whole video how you can walk back and forth and do these and it's It's kind of incredible how all that works. So you could just take live running machines Migrate their storage and then if you want to once they're in a shared storage, you can move them to another system In seconds because the storage takes longer to move which this one This is a 25 or no a 10 gig connection. So And not a lot of storage but moves relatively fast It's amazing what bandwidth can do. Yeah a little bandwidth Mm-hmm Oh, let's see Tesla os s 2038 covered. Yeah, maybe The question is does temple os on it. There's the real one if you look up that craziness Any thoughts on direct connecting two servers with 10 gig without a switch thinking of static ip and s. Yeah, you can do that It doesn't It doesn't really cause any issues not to have a switch You can plug two servers in with sfp's directly to each other with sfp. You don't need a crossover So they will connect Solidly to each other It's a cheap way to do it if you have a true nas and an xcp and g server But you don't want to spend money on a switch. You can just plug them into each other and set them as static ip but So now this vm Went from local storage to you know, I should probably zoom this in so it looks better All right, you can see it now it's on this now we can migrate it again So it's on rising actually show you have here. It's on the rise in one host. This is the neat part So that's on rise in one and we have The rise in two server now these two servers are connected at 25 gig and I talked about this in my demo But if we hit okay, we go to our task It's going to take 11 wow Yeah under a low it says 11 seconds but it counts faster and now we've migrated it We've taken that running vm and moved it over to another server So we go back over to the vm Now it's on rise in two and of course, we didn't restart it or anything Because it's still running bash top in the background. So it's still doing its thing and You can log into it It's kind of handy the way zen handles all this So you can just kind of flip things around and move them to different servers move them to different places If I want to move it to another storage or back to local I can do that It's uh, it's very fluid the way it handles it Even when you add new storage repositories, you can keep these machines running We've done this for migrations like we can add a storage to an existing pool Like a new storage server and migrate everything off that old storage to the new storage without shutting anything down We didn't have to reboot. We can do this During production time without shutting any servers down That's one of the things that people don't realize is this how advanced zen is able to operate at that level Fully, you know using the open source version These are all features that are enabled. It's uh, it doesn't cost you anything extra to do it. So That's just incredible. So it continues to run. What does I mean does vmware do that? Well vmware does it for a fee. Oh, okay It's all licenses and vmware like the v-motion everything vmware does really well Don't get me wrong vmware is a solid well-performing product But the licensing fees have become ridiculous since broadcom purchased them matter of fact That's actually a note that was over in one of the blog posts by the people at xcp and g the vates team They said hey the best thing never happened to us was broadcom bought vmware and just raked everybody over the coals for prices They just decided to substantially The uh I mean the license fees was that one guy told us like it was just unreasonable. Yeah that one guy with 14 data centers Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was that was interesting. Yeah, he's said in we actually had another person move off of vmware They said their their business model was unsustainable at the new vmware prices. That was their words unsustainable They could not do it. So it's sad that microsoft looks like they were trying to price themselves out of the market You know, yep. Uh, nope. I leave the default mtu. So even though it's a 25 gig network I'm doing it all uh default mtu Uh, how does it continue to run? Does it only switch to the new vm? Once the transfer plate no it it's smooth like the v the virtual machine itself is unaware that it just moved Like it can just move between servers. You can log into it People can be connected to it. You can ssh into it and nothing happens It just moves from where it is to the next location Yeah v motion works great, but super pricey Uh, I have two hosts xcp and g source ryzen. I cannot live migrate because I need A license for live. Nope. You do not need a license for live migration. Uh I I am Proving that right here. This is completely. Let me show you the little bottom corner here. See where it says no support This is just the open source build 100 open source. There are no license needed Now if you get this from citrix not xcp and g citrix then server requires licenses Xcp and g does not and if you compile the xo community edition, which it says right up here xo community I do my demos now. We always tell our business clients to buy the commercial product But because I am pandering to the homelab market who would love to play with Live migration features for free in their home Please note. I have an entire video on how to build the community edition, which is all free And all these things i'm doing I always make sure my demos are done Unless there's a I have the demos on the full paid version For a couple features that only exist in paid and I may do another video on some paid version But I'll always state that being this is a paid feature if not I'm using the open source one that anyone can use so you are incorrect that you need a License for that if you're using xcp and g Bend over is the freeze you're looking for when you talk about that. Yes. Yes How does it not crash you make crash? Really simple magic or actually, you know magic's the easy answer The real answer is really talented people writing really good code Yes Um Proxmox can do live migrations to new storage. Well, but it has issues with vtpm ufi drives can zen live may get vtming um Vtpm as far as I know will work But that's not coming till zen 8.3. So at the moment they don't have the vtpm in there uefi devices are fine They you can you can live migrate uefi, but the vtpm part won't be until uh 8.3 So as soon as that comes out, um, I will let you know I that's a good That's gonna be an interesting uh question But I'm going to assume the answer is yes. It will but I I can't answer that uh for absolute certainty uh Well, you know, I you know, I've actually met in real life in 2016 goose bumps Goose bumps is my life Uh Okay Do you recommend proxmox or xcpg for a home app? I'm partial to xcp and g But I don't have any problem with proxmox, but I don't know it I don't have a reason to learn it. It doesn't have any compelling features It says that's what I want to use and most of my consulting is done with zen orchestra Not proxmox because of scalability therefore I stick with xcp and g because is what I know I will switch products when there's a compelling reason to do so Um, but there's nothing wrong like if you are using proxmox and it makes you happy I can't tell you a good reason not to use it like if it's not a bad product at all Jay from learn Linux tv uses it I lost confidence in proxmox and they moved from lxc to lxd to cli is just way too powerful to be trapped in a ui um Yeah proxmox is interesting because it supports containers. You're not going to get good container support, but of course, uh in the Container world there's going to be debates lxc versus lxd They're not using my favorite way to handle containers and I'm not going to entertain that argument so Hmm It's possible packets while I'm writing your connection is slow yeah, um It's well, you can do it over slow you can live migrate over one good connection and it'll eventually happen It's not going to take 11 seconds. It's not going to take 11 seconds Uh, did you see the analogy 2023 some pretty cool things coming? Um, I am under nda Before those events, so I actually know all the stuff that was going to be I I think I knew Maybe not every detail, but I already was aware of a lot of this stuff coming I'm supposed to have one of the servers that was listed in their event uh on its way to me So I have to reply to some emails to make that happen I mean we talked about trying to get it beforehand I don't know why they didn't get it to me beforehand, but whatever I'm going to get to review some of that stuff Uh, what's a good system to start learning xcp and g I tried a del 38e micro couldn't get the oslo And saw it correctly forms didn't have the answer. Um The rise in ones I did are pretty standard build you can go with the cheaper motherboard the build. I just did will work We have a lab server that's built on a cheaper motherboard That works fine. So even the rising stuff is reasonable on there Sometimes some of the odd server hardware can be a challenge, but if you go with like the del r 7 10s Um, I know they're high wattage usage as we discussed earlier, but if you go with the r 720s Those are pretty cheaply available. You can find them those were great with it yeah It's actually a good build for uh running distributed systems across multiple sites proxmox isn't What kind of distributed systems across multiple sites? So that's the That's kind of the better question there But yes, it you can run one instance of xo And have it run multiple sites. They have a feature called xo proxy That allows you to do that. So you can use one zen orchestra to manage We have a client that has a chicago data center and another one in another state I forgot what other state they're in they're based in chicago, but they're one zen orchestra instance runs both locations Um, it's kind of a cool feature to be able to do that Does it have to be server? I was thinking old workstation It should work out. It'll work on a lot of workstations. It's just kind of a craft shoot If it has something in it that's odd that the that's just not recognized it may not work. Um, so There is a Zen compatibility list and that's going to be like we guarantee you to work on this Ryzens are not on that list, but it works fine at Ryzen. So you're kind of gambling and guessing That's why I did that build video to tell people This is hardware. We have tested at my office and it's stable and it works and it's in production today and it's in production today, so I wish I could combine sonology hardware with true nas software would be a fantastic for a low power compact true nas Yeah, it's always trade-offs. Nothing. Nothing is exactly what you want to be, right? Meta to learn xcp and gm proxmox. Nah, why not if you nest different virtualization systems in other virtualization systems That is a learning opportunity. Matter of fact, uh, I know I'm far as I know you can do this proxmox But if you want to do the opposite because I've played with proxmox inside of zen What you do is you go over to your virtual machine and you're gonna go down here And then the term you're looking for is just called nested virtualization When you nest virtualization You're turning on the virtual processor to say you can run more virtual processors within the virtual processors I give you so you can keep nesting them within each other You can run then you can load up zen server and load proxmox inside a zen server And then if you turn on nested virtualization and proxmox, you could load zen server inside the proxmox That's inside the zen server. It's kind of like russian nesting dolls All the way down I was thinking of the mirror when you look through the mirrors Oh, yeah, you look through the mirrors. It's kind of like that, but it's like the nesting dolls You can keep going all the way down until you run out of resources to do that But it works so it's a thing It can be done. I don't know if it should be done, but it can be done Um, we actually I've seen a few people Uh, they have really old legacy stuff and they have to run a nested version of an old vmware So they can run a really old version of windows so they can run some application. So Uh, I tried nested virtualization with true nest core on proxmox r710 The cpu was too old and the whole system hung fun times. Yeah, I mean There's some limitations to this At one point does an inception ip see you for that much nesting. I don't know man Yeah, and then the top stops spinning. Yeah, each uh, nesting is slower than its predecessor because as you virtualize the processors you keep just Yeah, you're you're slicing up the process so many times that you're ruining any hope for performance at all It's just a uh, this is zenception. That's how you're in you're in zenception land doing this. That's it Nothing good will come of this. I'm gonna throw that out there Put it on the screen again I think I wanted to run out. There we go. So something cool on the screen to look at Let it do its thing I love this little tool. It just looks cool because it's like it's doing stuff Because then I can actually ssh into it We'll go here to the network. Whoops so Sage shall see yeah. Oh, I should turn capsock off. You get my password, right? Then we'll uh There you go I four three two Three or two whatever. No That's running something Now we should go over here now that's running in the background. We'll watch it suck up all the cpu usage while it Does this memory cache is going to give some i o Yeah, a little bit More things to look at. Well, we'll let the comments roll We're just beating up the disc performance in a second. So stats see what it gets up to how many iops We're at 45 iops and climbing Well, I think something on the screen. So it's doing something for people to look at and ask questions When you built your new rising servers, did you consider alder lake? I'm curious that efficiency of cores on the lake were fried and you still get benefit between them um, I don't know and that's where I want to Build out bigger testing labs. Uh, I'm taking on sponsors for my channel to fund the idea of bigger testing labs So I can afford to build an entire alder lake setup Run a bunch of benchmarks then move it over to the horizon run a bunch of benchmarks and Make a conclusion of which one of these would be a faster setup. I would love to do that that unfortunately requires A sponsor to spend a lot of money with me and a bunch of people to pay a bunch of people to spend the time To test it because I don't have the time to do I don't mind doing the build and Building the workflow to test it But someone at some point needs to run all the tests and compile all the data So yeah, there's I would like to do that. I don't have an answer Wendell spends a lot of time testing I gotta reach back out to him on that because uh, we've been super impressed with how well everything works on The risings and how fast it is so I would like to take these same vm's and just migrate them over to an alder lake Set up and go how does it work? That'd be interesting. Yeah Do you run your x-way vm and one of the hosts and uh, or better metal? Oh curious if x-way will live migrate in a ha environment or how they work. Yes, and yes, I don't run on bare metal. I do run um So let's we go over here It does run here Um on one of the hosts this this one is on running on rise in one But then if we go back over to our production list the other one This is the not community dishes to the paid one. This runs on The rise in two so there's always two copies running This one is limited in resources But I could always increase those resources if needed, but this is like my backup one So I don't run it on bare metal, but you can you can run it external. You can run it on bare metal You can build like build your own virtual machine to run it Um, because it doesn't need to be running all the time unless you need the backups But yeah, and it does work in ha you can you can tell it you go into the advanced options here And you use the auto power on option auto power on means if there's any server failure And when you get the server back up and running it's going to automatically power back on Go back over here Wow 70,000 IOPS 5493 500 megs megabits a second. Yeah, it's doing some testing Oh, what else is in here? It's typing his password. Look away. Yeah Do you run your Zenceptions on Ryzen or is that too meta? Uh, right. Yeah Uh, when I VPN from home pf since the house get upload file chain ask file It doesn't send quickly because it may upload is 300 megs actually upload There's a lot of factors that vary And yeah, you cause it, uh, it may be not if If you have too many things blocked it may be relaying. So that's that's a more of a forum Uh discussion because there's a lot of there's a lot of variables involved in that question Hmm What ac wall socket for a homelab manage to grab some 20 amp pv use from a local dc But most devices are asking for 30 amp to feed them. Yeah, that is a challenge Uh, if you don't have a 30 amp circuit at home, you may not be able to power some of these things I installed 30. I saw a special circuit. Yeah, well at our office We have special circuits installed and in at home Um, I went in because I built my new studio. I went and installed a dedicated circuit for any servers I'm way under utilizing it. But I said, hey, if you're running wire, uh, it's not much more to run it at the 30 amp. So Yeah, that's just something it's a consideration need to have if you want to run equipment on there Uh systems commodity hardware like horizon 2600 with a bunch of ram and msi motherboard works so extremely normally You don't need to provide the service base. Yeah Yeah, and that's kind of my point. It'll run with a lot of these I've done a couple if you type in like rise and xcp and g I have a couple consumer motherboards I've talked about that we've run it on that it works fine uh Yeah, that makes sense for that. Yeah, it's a forum post because it comes on to the rules what you're doing Whether or not you're using tail scale and in tail scales going into a relay mode Um, there's a lot of questions because some people try to block everything And then the only option it has is to relay You don't you want to make sure you're not, you know, having a bunch of weird rules blocking things that may be causing tail scale That I have that problem Do you shift down to my great VMs from share store before updating firmware on switches used for storage? Never sure. Do you have any redundancy setup? Uh, no in that case, um Even when you have redundancy it kind of depends on what you're doing Like if you're using multi path ice guzzly and you know, it's going through different paths Yeah, you can just update one switch wait till it's updated then update the other switch if you're using Switches in a configuration with lacp. Yeah, you can do them one at a time My preference shut down the storage eliminate the issues Find a maintenance window and update the firmware on the switch Um, that's just to me a preferred way like we update switches whenever there's a maintenance window Whatever that that varies with clients. We were talking about that how we have to establish all the times with our clients We actually had Travis and and I were working on getting that information of when our clients have their hours of operation I mean, it's important to understand that you can't just do something during the middle of the day You might shut down a business. Yeah So that's the big thing on there. Um, I'll let this go 12 more minutes and then uh, well, maybe less I don't know 12. I've been going in for an hour. It's live for 49 minutes here At some point i'm gonna do something else and it's I mean, I love talking to everybody Yeah feels weird with the lights off here whoops He's been in this house a few years now and he still doesn't know what light switches. Do you know? I mean, it doesn't I'm the same way. I know like there's still more than one switch here You've probably covered dozens of times but was it definitive national ecc hay or nay on a budget when using commodity hardware You know, I I love that. I triggered people. Um In my rise and builds the fact that I wasn't using ecc. It made me happy to see that people complained about it Because I knew they would like there's trigger moments Tom you didn't have rails. Yeah, I know we didn't somebody in our office complained about that too No, no one in the office complained Um, but no, I don't think ecc. I don't I don't get I'm not saying ecc's not better But if your budget doesn't allow it Don't get it if you're building a home lab I don't think it's a big deal if you're building an enterprise you want the most reliable You know, you want if you want me to build you the most reliable server I'm going to lay out this budget. We're going to put some ecc We're going to use some really good enterprise hardware and we need to build it You're talking about a home lab. So when the homeland people or when I talk about the lab use we have for a lot of equipment Um When I start breaking all that down. Yeah, it's back focusing again that really look at that the light does it Yeah, it is the light this camera's stupid There now we're in focus again. It's your camera as my can't well. No, no, sony's are notoriously stupid That's why this isn't my main camera usually I have a studio camera by canon because canon knows how to make a camera. That's not stupid Uh canon charges dearly for those cameras. It's a little hard to bring that up here Yeah, well, so it's studio camera and I don't feel like lugging it up here. So that's why the sony's up here. Um Nonetheless, uh, yeah, it for homeland people. I don't understand the or you know in the use case We have specifically is going to be we do, uh Turn off the lights more voodoo IPA um One of the things that is Like for us we have a bunch of technical people that work at the office So when we built these servers, I didn't bother putting a chassis with redundant power supplies. Why spend the money? It's not needed if a power supply goes bad one We have two servers all the VMs that are important to us that we need to keep up and running can run on Any one of those servers we have two for redundancy reasons So we can migrate things same thing with ecc if there's some bad memory problem and one of the servers is having problems I will solve it by migrating everything over and running some memory tests on it and solving the problem with it I'm not that worried about it and popping out the bad stick or whatever the reality is 20 years ago tom, but I said, yeah memory testing is a problem. So she wouldn't used to have um If you look up the old cap, what was that called? I want to say it's called SIP memory Remember the old memory. I think it was referred to as SIP. Yes. I used to set up SIP memory Now SIP memory Here's what we'll do switch this over so we can drop it on the screen here for those of you old enough to remember SIP memory Right apparently in there. Yeah So when I used to use SIP memory With the pins like this Yes, memory was particularly unreliable Um when you had to push all the pins you just wiggle these things in and out and then the memory work again That's how you solve memory problems back in um, then we had You know the uh, god, what was boy? I had to go really rack if I bring for all the different memory types What's this site? Is it got a whole history of them? Four generations of ram here. I'll pull up a random site here and drop it in But this is one of those things all these different generations You had these the knees the knees and yes Oh man dill ram SIP ram sims dims when the dims came out man. It was a big deal They have little pins to break. Yeah memory and parity like the memory itself was uh, Sim ram. Yeah. Oh, I remember these double who remembered these double chip ones were popular for a while They only had the two big chips. Those were notoriously um For going bad They were really cheap at the time But you go to memory lane of all this antiquated hardware memory was not very reliable. You come all the way here to Modern era memory is substantially more reliable computers are more reliable motherboards are more reliable So yeah, that's something they started building better Yeah, so I don't worry about the memory as much as I would have a number of years ago Maintenance window is now if you have any issues costs of white phones connected to the poe switch or flashing. Yeah In here's the thing and someone says why have clients a lot of maintenance window? Well, then you sell the clients on the extremely redundant systems that allow for live migration to Somewhere to keep everything up and running. I mean if you have a client that's 24 7 cannot stop some type of You know industry that there is no maintenance window, then you build the system out accordingly That's what drives the spec if you have a 9 to 5 company Why would I sell them the same thing? I would sell a company that's 24 7 with a maintenance window 9 to 5 Cool, these are the things how long can you live without your servers if something went down? Cool, we have one more spare onsite. You're looking at a you know, it's risk tolerance What's the risk tolerance to that business? And that's what you measure from a business standpoint. So Uh Clear you need a smart voice switches ECC home production for home lab. I mean, yeah Uh men test great way to test memory probably The oldest I know is Edo ECC if fails if you had a bad stick detects correct spontaneous. Here's cosmic rays and power fluctuations. Yeah People get really worried about those and they're less finished than people think I remember similarities at least 10th or 30th birthday. Yeah What was the one before sip? There's actually this other one. It's a series of what what was that one called same Gibson actually has some of it There's a really It's a wire What was that called? It's from the 70s. It's a really old stuff If you care about the data storing processing spring free cc Um, if you don't care and it's easier to play cc entirely actionable. Yeah Plus at least with true dance it runs check sums and all the block commits error memory up. Yeah There's a myth and I've defeated that myth many times And so there's lots of people in blog posts that you need ecc for zfs. You do not need ecc for zfs. Fight me in the comments There's plenty of reading you can do or people arguing about it Core memory. That's the one that's the one I was thinking of so let's pull up what core memory looks like core memory is neat looking This was the very some of the earliest days was Um, how you held things together with core memory Yeah, so yeah, someone has a page on it I'm computing history here magnetic cores outputs It's kind of cool. I mean memory is still in some ways designed like this. It's just Done at the circuit level. It's just wild looking how these old core memory systems look It was neat though. It'd be really cool. How it all I don't know core. Oh, I should probably put that on the screen. There we go You and I were looking at it. It was cool looking Oh my gosh Are your chunas and xo instances on separate physical boxes? Yes Chunas is a heart is I'm running environmental Uh Quantum entanglement correcting destructive memory if anything goes wrong qubits will clash and antimatter will explode. Yes bubble memory Really old zfs corrupt your entire pulse system if it wrote checks sums of disk using non ecc memory. Not sure how they solved it Zfs is an atomic system Look if you the search phrase that will help you is zfs atomic rights The atomic right process is how the cow system works I have a video on that called zfs as a cow But if you just want to read it look at clara systems and they're going to have an entire archive Of great data on exactly what an atomic file system is you can also find several Research papers written about it. Uh, and you'll understand how it doesn't need ecc to do what it does um, that's It would be a long explainer and people with phd's that write theses on this stuff are better at explaining it than tom It's also really complicated Mortal combat music. Yes, you'd be able to put it to understanding though You're like an encyclopedia of techy stuff Uh, yes, so what um being bret working with me knows this Yeah, I he pulls stuff out of his head. I can't imagine I've been doing this for Um, my first tech job was in 1995. So now that I've been doing this for what does that make it 27 years Or is the math right out there everyone? I mean Yeah, that's yeah So basically I have um I love all the computer history stuff. I still to this day study it you you know, you'll find me People ask like what tech people do you watch on youtube tom? I'm like, oh anyone who does vintage stuff Is you know the vintage stuff fascinates me because I still have gaps in my memory Um for these things more things I weren't wasn't aware of then So I'm always like I love all the tech history, but then I'm also in the tech current as my day job So yes, I like to Memorize and learn and all the history stuff and discuss it and talk about it I think that's how you learn it gives you a base of where you're moving where they move from Crazy vintage. I think about that motorcycle out there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. I do a vintage motorcycle I'm fascinated by that technology too. Yes, you are tangential to ecc memory everybody thoughts on disc power loss protection If you watch my zfs as a cow video as well If you're asking about it in relationship to how zfs handles atomic rights and what a atomic rate means Um, then you will understand why data integrity and why you can only or or statistically are likely to At the perfect moment you can lose up to five seconds of data, but no more So it's not that there's a corruption problem. It's the way the atomic rate system works Every five seconds it commits So the power loss could occur at one of those five second intervals at the high end of it It won't complete the right, but you'll have a complete And copy of your data as it was up to five seconds before that happens You ready to send more money on uh ecc yes Uh, we're gonna send more money on more memory than ecc memory. Good idea When the oh when merkle tree head of the merkle tree had a bad check something look at the way zzfs is a uh Built to avoid those problems Uh, just clear your work with fiber channel not often How does citric lysic appeared xcp and g if I purchased xcp should work packages roast x oa um It's much better go with xcp and g don't even bother with citrics I I don't have any use case where I would say to go with the citrus licensing um Unless I guess there's one exception If you're using any of the citric's publish apps like you're using other citric's products and they bundle in the licensing But just for virtualization xcp and g's licensing is well, it's free because it's open source and you can buy support Looking forward to uh I still in here right here. Yep lgr. Yes Yes, lord system watches lgr. Yes, I do lgr is among them So you must dave plumber. Um If you go and read it, you'll find me and dave having a discussion about zfs. So yes So me and dave from dave's garage have talked because I told him I was a fan of his channel He replied that he likes my channel and he learns zfs for me. So uh dave is awesome He has amazing stories. I imagine a lot of people here follow dave's garage We're the g2 on the same camera. Yeah, uh, dave's really cool He was a years and years developer of microsoft. So he reveals all the microsoft stories Uh, I don't see in fact the best way to learn just a piece is advanced from the beginning bit by bit. Sure I like it bit by bit Uh, what security concerns do you have running pf sense any vm as a home public facing router? I fear not that there will be a flaw Uh in that setup, but that someone will goof it up as a home labber and expose things. So, um They'll accidentally expose the wrong ports and open up things to the public. So that's usually my fear It's not that I think it can't be done or that I can't do it. I think people are more likely to goof it up 11 more minutes I'm a glutton for punishment. All right. I'm gonna wind it down now Yeah, of course property resilient mirrored raid z Uh pool can recover from that kind of sufficiently small number of ssts. Yeah I mean, there's also I mean, it doesn't mean that zfs is foolproof because there's always greater fools There are people who build their zfs is really really wide and end up with a right hole So if you build your vdev too wide, you can create a right hole problem Google that and you will find a whole right up on it of people who created right holes And uh, they can't rebuild arrays because there are ways you can destroy it You can still take a relatively advanced zfs system and figure out a way to screw it all up So All right, I'm gonna wind this down. I mean bretter gonna be s probably and uh, it's time to crack open another beer See, I'm about a one beer an hour, but when you're drinking, yeah When you're drinking IPA is one beer an hour is fine And by the way, I'm friends with jeff from craft computing of why I have a shirt on Um, it's actually funny to me because when he does his videos He drinks a beer and people think he drinks a lot of beers Actually because he drinks a beer with the video. That's the only beer he drinks do so And it kind of makes me laugh talking about it. Yeah, usually it's whiskey No, I'm I'm a whiskey person. That's one beer little whiskey Watch my tv. That is allegedly too high. Um Yes, yeah, you've we always underestimate the fools we always underestimate the fools so All right. Thanks for having me join in and see you next time