 Hello, I'm Carleen McKay. I'm an expert in the emerging workforce. Now you might look at me and see somebody about 80 years old and wonder about that. We'll talk a little bit about working later in life here in a few minutes. I'm thrilled to be with you. New Workforce Hawaii is a membership. It's not an organization. It's not a nonprofit. It's an exclusive membership of people who specialize in emerging workforce challenges and issues. I'm really thrilled that my guests here today are part of that team and each brings their own unique gift. But before we get there, I'd like to talk more about the why we should be promoting this program and, most importantly, why you should be looking at it. When I think about the changes in the workplace, I think technology. I think data analytics. What really, really pushes me is thinking about longevity. And let me give you an example of why that's so important. When I was young and no dark hundred, you went to work. You worked for 20, 30 years, and that was the end of it. But you also didn't live very long compared to how we're living today. So let me take you back on that history just for a minute or two. In 1935, when Social Security was enacted, average life expectancy was 61. 65 was the maximum benefit. Everybody, and my friends, took it at 62 because they knew they weren't going to be around that long. Today, average life expectancy in Hawaii is 80 years and growing. Just wait for the next generation and you'll see that it will be easily 90 average. If you live to 65, that changes because average life expectancy is determined at birth. Half the people live lower than 80 years, half live longer. But what's happening as you age, you get to 65 healthy and every likelihood you're going to live to 85 or 90. Now tell me something. If you retire at 50, hello, Bill. If you retire at 50, it's a long time. And we don't have the wherewithal financially. Average savings of 50-year-olds in Hawaii is somewhere around $25,000. Please tell me how you're going to last another 30 years. And somebody said to me when I mentioned that to them, they said, well, we'll just live with their families as we always do, Ohana. And I said, I don't think my family would want me for 30 years. They might like me around some of the time, but I want to be independent too. And the reason I'm working at this age is that independence. How about you? Why does it matter to you to be able to stay connected? Tell you two or three reasons. One, the most likely time to get laid off and lose your so-called traditional job is in your early 50s. Two, the most difficult time to get re-engaged is in your middle 50s. You're either too old, overqualified, overpaid, but however you want to look at it, it's not even sensible any longer. And yet we have people constantly coming to us and saying, get me another job like the one I just left. And here's the problem. That job, like the one you just left, no longer exists, at least not as it did at one time when you were in it. So why are you here today? If you're in your mid-career or your late-career, you need to figure out how to work longer. It needn't be full-time. It can be part-time, some of the time, for the common good, for passions that have stayed dormant all the years that you were working for someone else. And I have one little tiny story. Then we go to our guests and enjoy our time with them. I had a fellow I met who laid tile for a living. And I took his story, and I have it in one of my books. He was 58 years old, and he said, my knees are starting to hurt. And I said, are you waiting for them to get better, or just what? And he said, I just don't know what else to do. And that's the problem. I really don't. If you've spent 25 or 30 years doing one thing, the rest of the world is unfathomable to you. You see it all the time with people. You see it in our hotels here in Hawaii. Absolutely. You see wait persons waiting for years and years longer than maybe they should. And here's the bottom line. And then go to the guests. One in four Hawaiians will be 60 by 2020. That's the day after tomorrow, you know. It's not some long time away. One in four. If we don't work, you can't afford us. And we'll tell you more about that in a few minutes. But first, let me introduce you to my first guest, Phyllis Horner. Phyllis says, I can finish my sentences. We actually do that because we both had very similar experience in working with people at all levels in the organization in terms of making sure they remain sustainable in one way or the other, which can mean just like the sun I saw when I came in here, lifelong learning lives here. Exactly. That's part of it. So Phyllis, I have a series of questions that I'd like to ask you. Sure. And then Bill Sager will pop in because I have a really important question to ask him. So ask yourselves, you who are watching, are you ready for your longer future? It's a big question, isn't it? A few of us, a few of us, a few of us ever asked that question. So Phyllis, let me, I wrote a few of these down because I called a few people to find out what their questions were. And I thought it was kind of interesting. I'm going to save one for you because it fits you even better. Do you mind if I put my glasses on and read everybody? This is one of the questions I received. What is the single biggest barrier you have observed in mid to late professionals? This is your bailiwick. This is where you work. So give us a little flavor of that and then give us the answer, please. Well, you know, that's a great question. I actually think that most of us, we thought of our careers like hiking up to the top of Diamond Head and we would strive and strive and go through everything that we needed to do to get there. And then we get there and when we're before like 50 or 52 years old, we think, great, I'm going to go down, I'm going to come right back up again. And at some point you go up to that hill and you say, oh my God, look at all these younger people behind me. They're going faster and they're stronger and the fear sets in that when you go back down that hill, you don't know what is going to happen. So the biggest barrier is not knowing who you are if you're not doing the same thing you always did, feeling vulnerable about that. And then the rest all depends on your personality. Well, it strikes me as a good time for a question for Bill. Were you ever that way vulnerable and feeling you couldn't go ahead or have you just been creating magic? Yes. Everything kind of came together when I was 55. I had a state job and my personal purpose and reason for being did not sync with that job. So I wasn't too happy where I was working. A friend was terminally ill and needed help to run his business and I was in an age where I could retire. So I helped him run his business for a year and I came to work one day and they sold the business and the new owner said goodbye. And I walked out the office with my stuff two hours later. Now that's a major impact on your psyche, whatever you call it, but what am I going to do now? And so I drove around trying to figure that out and it was real strange. I'm a forester and I worked for a forester on Maui who was a tanker's older guy that was difficult to work with and I hit it off with him wonderfully. And he came to me while I was driving and said it's going to be all right. That was what you needed. That just focused in my head. So let me just add to that if I may. First of all, the message you got through you is a common message today. It's good job now get out. So this is like you did something wrong. Those days are gone. Now it's don't need you. So I had some computer background and I went into computer consulting. I had a gig with the state helping run a program for kids that had the choice of going to jail or working with me on conservation projects. I worked for a year and a half as a salesperson for a paint contractor. It was strictly a gig. It was a gig like the gig economy today where people do some of this and some of that. I did a lot of work setting up networks and helping people use their computers and teaching them how to use software. And about the time I turned 70 I found that people were a little less anxious to hire me and I realized that computers were becoming commodities and that I was going to have to look for a shift and the internet was coming on strong and I looked at the opportunity to use the internet to build a residual recurring income. So let me interrupt you because I'm going to want more from you but I do want our listeners to understand something. You can learn computers and technology, internet at any age. Absolutely. There is no barrier. Here's your living example. We've got a wonderful, wonderful team member in our membership. I'm 86 shooting for 100. You're 86? See, I never really was sure of your age but somebody told me that I looked older than you. No, that's not true. We didn't say that. Oh, didn't we say that? But I think that's a point. But I want to make another point here because before I forget it Bill came out of the public sector and came out with a pension. Do you know, do you realize that the pensions in Hawaii are underfunded by billions? I think the number was 14 billion last I looked. Don't call me a liar if I'm off a billion. There's no way it can be sustained if everybody's retiring at 50 and living. And one of the important things is the state is paying my health insurance and if I didn't have health insurance I'd be bankrupt four times over. Well, and so there's another dilemma that we all face and I can tell you that at some point when you get to Medicare and Social Security there are ways to do it but none of it's what you really look forward to. It's what you have to do. By the way, speaking of Social Security before I forget you know maximum benefit now is 67, not 65. So those of you who are younger watching this or listening to it, be prepared for it to be extended again because it will. I'm going to come back to you in a minute but I want to get another question or two into Phyllis because I have another question or two for her. Shall we take a break first? Just for a minute or two? Works for me. I'm Carol Mon Lee and I want to welcome you to our newest series called Education Matters where we will explore education-related topics that touch everyone, not just formal programs in K-12 and higher education but also broader issues and information that affect our community. Aloha. My name is Richard Emery and I host Condo Insider. We talk about issues facing the Condo Association throughout Hawaii and talk about solutions. When you think about it, about one-third of our population lives in some form of common interest real estate. We broadcast every Thursday at 3 p.m. Please tune in. Tune in and thank you. Aloha. Hi. I'm Cheryl Crozier Garcia, the host of Working Together on Think Tech Hawaii. Join us every other Tuesday from 4 p.m. to 4 30 when we discuss the impact of change on employees, employers, and the economy. Are we ready? Hello again. I'm Carleen McKay with New Workforce Hawaii, an exclusive membership of professionals who are dedicated to mid and late stage careers and other career stages as well but for today that's our subject. Our motivation is to get you to think about working later in life because you're going to live longer because it's fun and it gives you something to do with your day that matters. I think very much so. Our guests today are Bill Sager to my immediate side. Bill is our 86-year-old technologist. Watch out, kids. And then we've got Phyllis Horner and Phyllis is absolutely the past, present, and future guru of mid and late stage careers. So I have some more questions and we're starting to run a little bit closer. So let's ask away. Ah, this is a good question that somebody gave me with the facts telling us that we are living longer and worry about living our money because we do. Why don't more people take time to plan for continuing to work? That is the question. That is the question. And I think really, especially here in Hawaii, many of us, we are happy in our jobs. We really find a lot of positive things with our HANA, our way of life, et cetera, and to ask too much to always be ambitious is kind of the first problem. So because we stay in those jobs so long, we kind of create a problem for ourselves later on. We end up outliving our usefulness if we're not careful. We have to do preventative maintenance while we're in a job in order to be comfortable when it's time to leave it. And, you know, why do people not plan? Did you know that more people plan their vacation? They spend more time planning their annual vacation than they do their retirement? I mean, none of us really want to think about that. We have this image in our mind about what retirement was, right? What retirement used to be. Do you remember it was round, endless rounds of golf and all that kind of thing? Yeah, and the swing, you know, and the porch with your pina colada or whatever. And it doesn't exist. So we're kind of, we're staring out at this vacuum. We don't want to have to work forever and we don't want to have to plan to work. But in fact, you know, what I'm finding with people that I work with is once they get through that piece of, you know, I have to think different about this. I shouldn't be afraid. I should just plan it like I plan anything else. Then the rest is easy. You can have many, many gigs in a row the way that Bill did. It's just a matter of getting yourself past that hump of, why can't I have what my parents had, you know? Well, that's over. And it's over for so many reasons. Our children's college, you know, would pay that off until their children are ready for college. But there are other things, and especially here that I've been paying attention to because of my personal situation, I was widowed at 65 and that's the typical picture is women are left behind in their middle 60s. It's a long time to sit on a porch even if you have one, it really is. Do you have any particular ideas as to how to help people overcome the resistance to change? Do you work with people in that? Yes, I do. That's a really good question, Karleen, because I think even I have resistance to change. I'm not immune from any of this myself. Maybe Bill is, but I'm not. To get people past resistance to change, they have to see that the future can be exciting again. And so I have a term I call get more mileage from your late career, meaning, prosperity and growth. That's MPG. And how do you start that back up? You have to look backwards to see what you really did like and what you were good at and what people thought you were naturally good at. And then Karleen, I've learned so much from you about that is not enough. You have to match it to where the marketplace is going, right? Amen, that's the truth. And then once you get that, it's like skiing downhill instead of falling down that hill. That's exhilarating again. It is exhilarating. And that's another thing. We continue to work typically first reason is money. But the second and equally important reasons are the loneliness and despair that people fall into when they're alone a long time. That's true. That's so true. Been there and done that. And I can remember I was retired for three weeks once. And people said, I love this, I love this. At the end of three weeks the vacation was over and I went, okay, now what? And I think people that are listening today are thinking the same way. That it all sounds good but it isn't. The number one step in our process of helping people is the letting go process. And for mid and late career folks, that's probably the most demanding is to get them through that period of letting go of the past and moving forward. How about you, Bill? Did you have any trouble letting go once the guy stopped you and said, don't worry, be happy? Well, I always wanted, I am a kind of conservationist. That's where I was. And for ten years I was really lost because I was finding all these gigs that had nothing to do with conservation. And so I had to sit down and look at what my purpose was. What I really wanted to accomplish and then say how am I going to get there? And that's why I built myself as a transition specialist. I helped people get from where they are to where they want to be. And most people, like you say, are drifting. For a long while. They are drifting. They don't know what their purpose is. They don't know what they want to accomplish. And unless you understand, unless you understand what your purpose on this earth is, you're lost. Yes, that's right. And you don't know where to go. So, first thing, decide and understand why you're here. And then as long as you live, work to accomplish your goals. That's so important. And when we were talking about the link with the marketplace, one of the unique features of New Workforce Hawaii is to get people to see that their career is their business. Not their job. And when you're running a business, you have to adjust. You have to make a little tweak here. And we have a perfect example of that in our relationships. Everybody has a unique gift for the membership. When you are listening to us and looking at us, and you say, I can't think of any, that's why you need people like us to help release that so that you can, in fact, find the purpose that the market wants. Right. And I would just add that our purpose changes over time. And having more than one is okay. Just pick the one you want to do for the next five years and then... I have multiple things that are important to me. How many? I look like a cat with nine lives. Right? Yeah. I still do a lot of work in the conservation community and most of it is as a volunteer. And that's an option for someone who is retired and has an adequate income. Well, and it's a great option and one of the things that we promote right? I can give you, without exaggeration, two dozen other ways to work that matter to our market. In fact, we have a book coming out that will be online mid-April free. So pay attention to newworkforcehawaii.com Look us up on the internet. If you don't know how to do that, find somebody to help you to learn how to do that. I'm Bill the Sage, not Bill Sager, but my point is if you need help, reach out for it. If you need help to make major shifts for absolutely positive reach out for it. If you're just simply saying I want a job like the last one I had, I can name ten people right here, right now in Hawaii that spent a whole year looking for what was gone. And that just breaks my heart. It's a tremendous waste of time. It's illusionary. It's a delusionary. And I think it's time to say come on, let's at least get exploring and looking together. And we'd be happy to help you in that regard. Phyllis, if you were to bring up something that you think is the critical point you'd like to make today, what would that be? Well, you know, for me it's really if you're drifting right now and you're annoyed, if it's boring or stale or you're getting feedback that isn't as great as it used to be. You know, you really need to just zoom ahead and start planning right now. Don't wait until something happens, right? Don't wait until something happens. Have a plan B right now. That would be what I would say. And there are a lot more resources and a lot more ways to work like Carlina is saying. Pay attention to what comes next. Well, we'll be talking about this on our regular shows. We'll be talking about all generations. You all have challenges that are different from other generations, but the serious one right now for Hawaii, most serious one, is to make sure that we can sustain our working lifetimes. And so when we look at mid-career, that's the vulnerable moment. That's when you should start looking at what's next, even if you're happy. Times change. And with the changes in technology and all the other things that we're facing, changes in our family lives, you name it, there is something else ahead of you. And if you can get to our stage of life and be more excited about what you're doing than at any time in the past, why wouldn't you? I just don't get the fact that people think somehow sitting on the beach in Hawaii doesn't get tiresome, it's the most beautiful beach in the world because it is that. Any other comments, Bill, you'd like to make? Develop a side hustle so that you have something to fall back on when your job situation changes. Good one. If you were to give one last piece of advice to people watching this, what would it be? One more piece of advice. We're getting very close to the end here. Know what your purpose is. Set your goals and work for them a little bit every day. And the other piece of advice that I would give you and mean it, don't take this information lightly. We're also concerned with so many things. But if you think about having a fulfilled life, it involves some form of work. One of my favorite things to do is to look at what I can do for a fee, for free, and for the good of the community. And I call that a work portfolio, which means there's something in it for everyone with whom you interact. How about you, Phillip, favorite way to work? I agree. Portfolio is the way to go. I like to learn from millennials a lot. I feel like the way they have passion and they go to work for something beyond themselves, they don't really stick around for 20 or 30 years just to have security. And I think you guys should consider that too. And I want to just conclude by saying Phillip spills herself as the oldest living millennial. But I'm the oldest living millennial. Thank you very much for being with us today. Come back. We'll be here with you every few weeks to make certain that your career is being looked after.