 So let's look at then a text and I don't know Was did anyone here attend the actful talk that we gave? Just this past actful Okay, so then this will be new to you. So this is good. Yeah, so in order to help you to start Playing with this notion. We're going to give you a text by Hemingway This is the beginning of a short story by Ernest Hemingway, and it's called the gambler the nun and the radio And it is actually a pot. It is an open text. It's in public domain So what I'd like you to ask you to do is to read this text and then looking at the various Categories of the literary the question that you should be asking yourself is is there anything in this text that stands out as Non-conventional as creative as Mm-hmm Different in some sense Does it strike you as odd anything right? Intentionally odd right because obviously Hemingway didn't didn't wasn't by mistake, right? So and then look through these categories of the literary and see how might you label what it is that you're that you're sensing talk about it with Your colleagues at at your table and see what you come up with and once you have an idea of What dimensions of the text may be? Literary in the sense that I'm using it then maybe just briefly discuss some ideas about hmm How might you deal with that what what might be one way that you could start to put that into practice? Okay Could we ask maybe just a quick reporting? from each table just Some of what you were discussing. What are the the flight categories that you would that you've identified? And how that ties into the text Let's work with that first and then we can also generate some ideas about your ideas about where one might go with this So could we perhaps start at this table? I We were kind of like thinking about I could first of all I thought the Russian it was the Language in Russian or a person Russian person. I mean that was kind of like if he part of it so as first part of him, you know Nelson mentioned to me that they brought them They who they kind of you know question mark So we thought it was very interesting and then it seems like to me was like Word play basically kind of you know showing in one word that means Couple different meaning you know depending on who the readers you know point of view So I thought it was very interesting in a way. Okay, I looked at the visual play for example the Everything is capital letters until mid MID Midnight and the second part of midnight is not capital. So to me that was visual and then sound like all night long everyone along and then Also when it says in the thigh, I think always going to die. I'm afraid so thigh and die rhyme I Didn't look quit that sound play again and then we also talked at our table about How the translator didn't translate cabron Which could mean that For example an accident that he hit me at all the cabron Which could mean that even though their Mexican who was shot said he didn't know know him That maybe he did know him Okay, so and we didn't look. I don't know which one that would talk about So that's mainly what we talked about that could be code switching perhaps right and yes code switching Culture play actually So we talked about perspective specifically Where is he shot mr. Fraser asked the night nurse in the thigh? I think what about the other one and so you can kind of you can get an idea that He might be talking about the two different people, but he might also be talking about the other thigh depending on your perspective Also the the paragraph where it kind of explains what happened is Is it you know could be different depending on your your your take of of what happened, right? Sorry as far as I'm concerned I think here that we have a grammar plate because we have all night It is a night is an as an known but he is it's used as an adjective because followed by now and again here We have paper said it here. We have metonymy the paper doesn't I mean say something but it is just Just like when you say the catalyst boiling it's actually not the cattle the water inside the cattle And we have also we have sir and senior these are address use of different address forms I Don't know maybe at the beginning they were talking about the two men who have been shot But at the end it was just a divergent in the it was just an accident So they are the mode of thinking have just changed something else I don't know it was an accident and talking about two men who have been killed and then at the other Last so you know, it's just an accident. So The ending was something non-expected for me I think we have another thing here. I feel that all the categories here. We have in this Let's say in this text one of them was Symbolic play here using a go to insult and it sounds that he know he knows the person and here We have we have to think about the meaning only the Mexican guy talk about or describe the the shooting Accident where's the Russian then? Yeah, so we have to let's say make our student think like that and and Yeah, here we have Like January because it's a kind of short story And also we have narrative and descriptive here. They narrate and we can find here the quotation mark Which means direct speech and then they see the here we have there were both workers and describing the let's say the situation Yeah, I think I believe again not with the let's say the quotation with the let's say the quotation itself now here with the description and Thank you, so we focused on The pragmatic play perspective play culture play and word play we were discussing the fact that there was Something lost in translation there. So so there's the perspective play the translator Basically described something very short very objective, but there was more to that in saying that I Was an active accident that he hit me at all the cabron and It can have many implications like many of you mentioned before but there's more to that Do you want to share your ideas? We were talking about also with we focused on the end and when we were talking about the pragmatic play comparing the differences between the formal reported Account in the newspaper versus the anecdotal account Where the police officer and interpreter talking to the Mexican the press well with with the perspective play I'm talking about We were also discussing what was the accident the mere fact that he was shot or the fact that he didn't move quickly enough because maybe he shouldn't have been shot and The he was slow in moving so he got shot so we were discussing Like I said the other thing was the word play with accidents, you know, is it an accident is something that you have no control over? But it doesn't seem like it's an accident because someone came in and was shooting at him So playing with that as well. That's what we were going for. Yeah, we were saying that it was real written stylistically like a news report but very confusing and it was like boom boom boom boom almost like the shots that were fired and It just I Don't know. Would you like to say something Julie? I? Just like we got confused as far as like who was shot in the thigh and who was shot in the stomach and then at the end About the accident and how the whole kind of lost in translation thing happened with an accident that he hit me at all The cabron and then he said he said it was an accident, but yet it was you know, how can it be an accident if it was? Eight shots that were fired everyone along the corridor here the Russian and we don't feel or found the Let's say the Russian speech here. What does this mean? And he said that I'm afraid that he let's say what where is it? Yeah, he is going to die I'm afraid Going to die What does this mean then after having after having the conversation there is such a richness of Play on so many different levels and you've plugged into different aspects of play the question then becomes Depending on the level of language class that you're teaching Because this is after all about language. We're teaching. We are language teachers, right? So if you are for example at the first-year level and you wanted to use this in an ESL classroom What is it that you're going to bring out about this text? How are you going to use this text in order to create a flight lesson? Are you going to talk about all of the things that we've just talked about? That wouldn't be useful, right? So so what is it that you where can you go with this text? You're you're feeling wow? There's all the stuff going on. This is really great. Is it useful? How do you make it useful? What do you focus on? So so any thoughts on on? Where you might go with this text because the flight project for me was really about bringing notions of the literary language play to the very beginning because it's something that yes at advanced levels we do Not necessarily in the same vein, but we ultimately end up addressing these things in some fashion But my first question is how do we do this from the start? I think you could maybe look at the the use of pronouns here how they use like they he him Right because I think that plays a lot into how you would interpret the story So pronouns, uh-huh for an ESL student that would be this would be really confusing You'd have to talk a lot about perspective from which perspective who was talking About the accident and then go into Double meanings, you know like where where is he shot? Mm-hmm, so I would incorporate a lexicon exercise so probably choose several words and Provide them with meanings and they have to choose which one they think It's being used here and they need to explain why in piece together the story At a plot level as far as explaining why at the big at the beginning level that might be difficult. Okay. Yeah Maybe good. Yeah, maybe okay for later. Mm-hmm so Someone mentioned pronouns earlier. So pronouns are part of how we Refer what what other aspects of language are used for referring Since a lot of people say that it's confusing who's speaking how you know what's going on How do we how do we parse? How do we make sense and what what language is being used to do that? Also, we can ask student to let's say arrange the events of the story short story. Okay, according to the time order So what would you need to do in order to what is the sequence and what would you need to do to change? Yeah, for example the first two line. It's now and then Let's say the the speech between quotations is the comfort the active conversation between Between the nurse and the person who asked about the accident So here we have different kind of general and also we can ask about let's say Why we use such kind of tenses in this part of yeah of text and that part Okay, let's talk about tense. What it what tense is being used through a present past Okay. Yeah and Yeah direct and indirect speech and yeah So grammar we can so what is that? What is the? Literal sequence not the sequence as it's present here. What what was the sequence of events? What happened? There they are in the hospital and everyone can hear their sound. They are okay, but what was the sequence in real? First they were in the cafe. Yeah Mm-hmm, and what happened then somebody came in Yeah, I should shooting one dove under the table and Then they magically appeared at the hospital. Okay, so we don't we don't have the transfer to the hospital But we understand how do you know it's a hospital? Because there's a night nurse. There's a night nurse and what else the corridor. Yeah Mm-hmm, and they brought them in around midnight and Then all night long everyone along the corridor heard the Russian So what is Hemingway getting us to do here? We have to Reconstruct right so he is giving us references That we then have to fill in the blanks for but we can do that especially let's say As native users of the language or people who have that level we do that without even thinking about it Or we may feel frustrated and say well I have to read this a couple of times in order to do it But in fact we end up normally speaking with that mental image with that understanding of what is going on I think you would need to do some pre-reading strategies because if we had a hard time and and we had to reread reread it a couple times because it was confusing to us a non-native speaker would have even a more difficult time Having creating the image in their head. So if we did some Anticipatory strategies pre-reading strategies to help them to give them an idea create sort of the situation in their head So when they started reading they would have already an idea Okay, oh and also I love grammar. So The direct speech once we'd read it talked about it I would have them change put the direct speech into indirect speech to show the difference between direct and indirect speech Okay. Mm-hmm. We can ask them also to to reconstruct this story Yeah, and at this time they can get benefit from the grammar they use in the text and also if they feel that something is missing They can add so at this time we have also creative writing Yeah, and focus on the grammar and on the ideas also not only on the let's say the language itself Yeah, okay, you can ask the student to create a list of characters So that they have a framework To move forward on figuring out what's going on the first we need to know who's doing who's here, right? Who's doing what to whom Chantel and I both created flight lessons for this text? I created one that I could use potentially at the second semester level college level What I would think of is that advanced beginner second semester level for romance studies because Because of the number of cognates that are in romance studies and its relationship with English When it comes to written text you can actually go Further perhaps more quickly than you can with languages that that have different Writing systems and and and may involve I mean my major was undergraduate major was Chinese So I know that it's difficult to get to That quickly for for example, but I want you to think about levels of the languages that you teach The other thing to to keep in mind is that when we talk about flight lessons And this is a question right to do everything in the target language How much English do you incorporate for my from my perspective? My feeling is that in order to get where I really want students to go I'm fine with using English as the language of instruction especially for reading right at the lower levels and what I've experienced in using this approach is that it the benefit Far outweighs that feeling of oh, but I'm supposed to be doing everything in an immersion style So if you're in an immersion style program This could potentially create a conflict for you for you to come to your own understanding of what that means And what the longer term benefits are so in any case when we come back from from the Break you'll get a chance to see an introductory level and then an intermediate to advanced level lesson for this Hemingway text all right, so The goal now for the next 45 minutes until until 11 is We're going to give you as I mentioned to Example flight lessons for this Hemingway text so you'll read Then take some time in your group to Discuss what what sort of flight principles are you seeing coming out? How is it being manifested? Comments questions, etc. And then we'll bring it back to the whole group to share reactions thoughts And questions right so that we can go even further Alrighty, perhaps we can stop you in your cogitations at this point and Again, I'd like to Maybe just get some reporting from each group What your discoveries are your comments your questions and then we'll end with a Fuller discussion of From with our input included into Helping to lead us into the afternoon session So is there a group perhaps that would like to begin with your reporting? What is it that you've that you found? one of the things that we talked about actually the last thing we talked about was the fact that this kind of these kinds of lessons are very in keeping with Current movements in teaching foreign language in order to teach students in a proficiency-based way and encouraging proficiency rather than Memorization of rules and things like that and it's not explicitly structured in that way But it is very definitely has that spirit which is something that's very handy I suppose because that's how I am now expected to teach and how I think I should be teaching as well Thank you. Yes for making that point Well, one other thing to act which is really obvious, but I'm just going to phrase it There's very good scaffolding Plant live the levels are planned in such way the first one for example that you really have to establish the plot in a very basic way so that you can start analyzing and That's done at both levels right right. I'm not completely clear on is well It's the problem always when you want to use like authentic materials, you know a lot of times You know you're kind of confused, you know if you're making your point This is too hard you know how to just to the level of the students and in this case particularly I was just like trying to make sense of the Using a story by Hemingway, you know with all the problems with vocabulary You know and Jen ran a lot of other stuff for teaching something as articles, you know, I mean, I'm not sure you know if Learning you know that needs to differentiate between indefinite and definite articles could get much of this story, you know This is not how I would introduce those forms So I think one of the considerations is what are the resources that the students have And another group past tense also came up, right? This is not how I would I wouldn't say now We're gonna learn past tense. Here's a text by Hemingway, right? But if past tense is something that we've been working on in other ways Or if the the article system or other forms of reference were something that we're working on This is a way to build upon that so that students can see that this is something that doesn't just follow a kind of rule-bound Set of paradigms, but it's something that can be played with something that carries meaning in different ways Something that has kind of a lot of nuance in a sense So it's expansive in that regard, but I think one of the considerations is always what are the resources my students have Which ones are they very comfortable with which ones are fairly new? What do they not have and that's that question of how you scaffold them into the lesson and Sometimes you study something I don't know for example the basic things, you know precisely articles adjectives You know present as you know in one or one and then you go over that again, you know in one thirty one For example, you know and then I think you could use something like and that's why I think Joanna frame this as late beginner Because the very fact that you're using past tense and narration means that you're not You're probably not in your first year in high school. Honestly, right? It's so for this particular text, which isn't to say we can't do this approach with those tech with with The very early beginners and we're talking about other kinds of texts that might live themselves to this So this is a late beginner. I think is how you framed it. They have to be able to narrate a little bit, right? Right, yeah, let me also just make clear and it addresses your question So this turns into a textbook right my approach developed into a textbook, but it is a compliment to it's sort of the reading writing complement to the French textbook here at UT France interactive which has the embedded grammar syllabus Which has all of the things that an introductory level textbook has what I wanted to do was to go further So in that first semester, they're introduced to these things, etc And in the second semester when they're coming back to them and they're starting to use them What I found is that in France interactive just like all textbooks that I know of They didn't bring in this notion of language play even with grammar and for me getting a sense of the grammar System initially may feel overwhelming Right, but ultimately give students and I worked with ESL students for years who are coming We're just having this conversation. So languages that don't have an article system like Arabic Doesn't have an article system like all the Asian languages and those students were just throwing articles at nouns I mean they just they just you know trying to follow rules just didn't bring them anywhere. So once I started getting them Working with the article system and nouns not as either or you know Count or non-count etc. They gained because that is the goal, right? We want our students to be able to gain agency over language learning and what I discovered is that and found over time is that It gave them a much better handle, but some of your goals have to be a little bit longer term It's not going to be oh, here's this lesson on the article system boom end of story, right? No, it's this developing that system and working with that system Can I add one just little thing to that that's to flag something and because I part of what I hear you saying is well Where what does this look like in a curriculum, right? Where does this fit in and I think tomorrow when we talk about some examples from assessments? There we're having to turn our attention to how does this fit with the course objectives? And even though we're not going to show you a whole course I think it'll become a little more clear in those examples How these might intersect with other aspects of a curriculum because I can talk a little bit about and you can Talk a little bit about how those examples we brought in fit into our individual courses, right? And you and you can't see it if you have time another you know later Or whatever is if you look through if you look at the website for France interactive and you just look at the core Outline of the of the chapters what the grammar topics are and you flip flip through this book. You can see how it Takes What is given in that introductory textbook and brings it to a different level? So it gives you a sense of the curricular arc what I have them do is that I'm not gonna teach right away the grammar What I do is I have them pull from the text and usually use graphic organizers And then compare and then work back to like for example in the story you have the present and the past You know you can find the key words that were telling you this happened yesterday This happens today then you can connect your tense and you can have them pull But I like to have them work it out themselves, and then I'll tell them okay This is past tense or this is present. I don't just come and say I'm gonna teach you the past today Right, you know it makes more sense right you're working in reverse Yeah, and graphic of organizers for the content the who what when really helps them to understand the story So I use that a lot right I have never seen another example of the use of Articles and that meaning of definiteness indefiniteness to make a temporal shift I've never seen that anywhere else and when I read this text years ago. It just was like whoa, okay How does Hemingway achieve a temporal shift so instead of as I mentioned in that first lesson going from Simple past or the preterite to then normally you'd have to go into the past perfect to understand Oh this happened earlier because he's not doing sequence in it in in how it actually unfolds So instead of because Hemingway loved him in his whole thing was about minimalism of language He didn't want to use complex tenses. We were having that question about tenses. It's all Flat in that respect. It's all preterite. How do you get a temporal shift? Oh, he starts with definite articles Makes us try to piece together the context shifts to indefinite. Oh, this is when we didn't know who these characters were This is the backstory. This is the temporal shift So if in order to understand you have to understand what definite means and indefinite means we use these terms Indiscriminately in textbooks. Oh definite indefinite Well, how do we know something how when is something not known when it's not shared and what are all the different ways That's what the article system helps us to play with Can I add something to that? Yeah, and this goes back to the question of level and of scaffolding Which is something we're gonna explore more in the afternoon, right? How do you set these up and how do you set them up for for different levels and part of what we wanted to do was? Take the same text and show you how it could work differently at different levels, right? Depending on what your objectives are depending on what the students have as resources And I know one of the examples For an activity that somebody a couple people listed earlier was a recount, right for me a recount That's intermediate advanced because you have to have a lot of linguistic resources to do a recount So if you ask the students retell the story, they need to have not only past tenses But temporal expressions causal expressions. They have to have a lot of mastery over the language But using a graphic organizer, right where you're saying who what when right that breaks it down Something else I've done with texts like this and and workshops I've done with a different Hemingway text is to literally cut the text apart into strips and tell the students put the Story back together. They don't need a lot of language mastery to do that They just need to be able to kind of play with it And then they can compare the different versions with this one Presumably I haven't done it with this one. I've done it with a similar one But I'm guessing a lot of people would start with the they were both beat workers, right? You start with the who what when So then when they see the original version they can say, oh, what's the effect of holding that off this kind of feeling A confusion people had they can also play with the questions, right? If you have a where question, where is he shot in the thigh is going to make sense But oh, he's going to die. I'm afraid might be an odd answer. I mean, it's not implausible But it's an odd kind of answer. So then getting them to see, okay Why what are you noticing there about the language in the way you put the story back together? Is something a late beginner can do without having to have all that linguistic mastery of a recount, right? So thinking about where are they at and how can I support them is a really important question for this And that discussion would be potentially in English if it's at that first level because clearly in order to to get the fruit of those Of that inquiry, you know It's okay to use English At least in my world. There are a lot of the students I've thought for a while now They don't have any concept in English of what a definite article is and now I'm an objective And so you teaching your language and then you noticing my gosh They don't even know what I'm talking about in their own language. So what you have to do you have to I Take care of my business, right? And then I reinforce for the English class also which down the road, you know is helpful to them exactly I was of a generation long ago Where the I only encountered grammar for the first time in high school when I started studying French and I thought well, this is odd 40 years later students still have the same problem They don't teach it. So we were talking about interdisciplinarity Your approach to a foreign language really needs to intersect with what students are doing in English because English for native speakers means literature Ultimately, right? So some of you may have responded to there was a comment about oh the terms in the more advanced level would be something that in a high school level might be difficult to go into that level of specificity for terminology and yet this is about understanding how language works and it's also something that contributes their understanding of English and any Other foreign language that they may potentially encounter. So flight is also really about helping students to understand how languages work Developing those intuitions developing what kind of questions that they need to ask when they encounter something It's not just this, you know, yes. No black and white. Oh, here's the rule doesn't fit the rule Well, okay, I don't know what to do with it, right for me. I'm having a lot of tension right now I'm having a my brain is talking to each yes Which is ultimately good because there is this sense of and I kept hearing myself during the activity saying this is too hard This is too hard. This is too hard. And so I think it's this anxiety Of being an English language learner myself And the protective thing that goes on with us as teachers And not allowing the play because you keep saying the play and you know as a parent It's not about language It's the culture part that plays in because as a parent I'm married to a Jewish American man He started playing with my children when they were little and I'm like, what are you doing? We're the parents We don't play because as a Latina my parents never played with me So I learned parenting in a different way And I attribute that to the way that I protect my students from learning English Because I want a front load with a lot of prior knowledge and vocabulary and anchor charts and cognates When I just need to give them the text, right? So they can build their own and intuitive approach, right and play So I think I'm having like a series of struggles. Yeah in my whole body. Yeah, that's what we're experiencing And maybe it's just me, but no, it's not just you I mean, this is asking you to open yourselves up to different ways, right? And that may be something that you ultimately you won't want to do Right, but you also need to sort of ask think okay here are my students. What what what can you you're all said in the beginning I'm here because I want to get a sense of what I might be able to do to help my students, right? Well, maybe this is something maybe it won't be the full approach that you'll adopt But maybe sometimes you will bring that in as one of the many tools that you have at your disposal for helping your students to achieve different goals and Again, because we don't have the reference books yet because they're in the works You don't have the grammar reference books yet to help you, right? So now right now it's I'm asking you to work intuitively and to start to feel. Oh, yeah, you know just saying You know definite indefinite is not enough and throwing articles at nouns, right? So so what do we where do we need to go with this, right? Can I add something to that and then I know there are a couple of hands up, but we talked over here a little bit about this native Non-native speakers shut down that sometimes occurs And I think that's part of what you're pointing at as well, right? So if someone I'm a native English speaker if someone gives me this text I assume I can read this text and I try to figure out what's complicated about the text But sometimes coming in as a non-native speaker the first reaction is to say I can't do this I'm not at that level, right? And that's that shutdown that that you're talking about I think that people that we often try to protect our students from so part of this is to sort of Gently throw them into that so that that shutdown doesn't occur outside of the classroom where they don't have our support So I think part of it is also saying okay play messiness Ambiguity all of these things are part of language How do we teach them to ask the right kinds of questions so that they can deal with that when we're also not there? They're supporting them in a sense I think the I could use parenting but of course for that as well But kind of riding a bike or something like that where you have to let go at some point Otherwise, and they might fall over and that's okay, but you learned like falling over a little bit, right? So I think that's part of what we're what the approach is. Okay, I know there are a couple of hands. I had experience working on the teaching Spanish as a foreign language with the regular curriculum and at the same time later on, you know I jump into teaching and the full immersion program It was teaching to English speaking students Basically, I started with second graders and I was you know, I experienced that level of anxiety How I am going to teach these little kids in a full immersion program because I was required to speak Spanish a whole time No English so I Saw tears at the beginning of some of the children, but it didn't last very long I think once they get into the level of comfort because I think I was anxious because having thought You know all their students and I thought, you know These are something that these are things that children or the students learn, you know when they are in high school, but I Think I kind of relaxed once I start seeing that the children are really, you know It it is hard at the beginning, but you know after a while it is just sick on nature to them and by the time You know probably and within two or three months We were just all enjoying and it came very natural to them and I ended up reading El Quixote and We work a lot on you know also creating, you know some when we plan our curriculum The English teachers were involved so more or less we work in poetry Which poetry is not that until much later in the regular setting and and it's intimidating And so the children felt like they were playing with the language and they were just enjoying it so I think that lower that experience I lower my level of anxiety and I am feel very comfortable just Adventuring and presenting them different things that you know We might think they are not ready, but they are really ready not knowing the right answer Not wanting to respond in class because they're afraid of making that Step of into the unknown That's the normal anxiety So and at the college level when when face becomes that much more important, right? You can you could you should only for some students only participate if you feel that you have something really valuable and etc so getting students to get past that and Here in this kind of approach everyone has Potentially something to contribute because not only you working intuitively you working creatively and people can bring in things from different knowledge bases and experiences and it really helps to bring out Different strengths that that students have some are going to be very good with grammar in the traditional sense Others are going to start noticing things and saying oh asking good questions or having intuitions that are going to bring things to an interesting level so I think thinking about weighing out different types of anxiety and You know, it's not all one thing all the time and how can you? Manage yeah each time I try to read it I cannot I mean get something I mean you as far as literature is concerned because it's not my area But this is I mean the last reading and I just discovered from the pragmatic point of view that the Hemingway's is using Caterphoric reference rather than an aphoric. Yes, so it's just try to give us something I mean pronoun just like this and I have to read to know who are they? Yeah, just the opposite way. That's right. This is a pragmatic point of view as far as this is Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Thank you, and I think that's what you're pointing out Right, it has a very important pragmatic effect on the reader. Yeah, but it is a literary technique So that you you begin a story with definite articles and pronouns in order to get your reader To jump into your story to engage and to have to mentally piece together what is happening So that's not new. That's not something that Hemingway did that's unusual, but he does as far as I'm concerned that use of Articles to then do this temporal shift. I just think so cool We also discussed the grammar terminology is kind of a shutdown for our students most all of us being secondary teachers And but the thought that I wanted to share is Initially when you have all this play this play this word play keeps showing up And I'm thinking for the majority of our students Language and play aren't on the same page. That's right However, I think I can say for everyone in this room words and play go together I mean if we didn't love it, we wouldn't be doing this, right? So a lot of our task is Getting across to our students that they can play with this and to lighten up and and And also apply that to ourselves Because I have to confess when I saw in lesson two some of that terminology was like I've never seen this word before in my life How do I I have a degree and why don't I know what this means and my play went away for a moment. Yes Yes, that's that anxiety that comes in. Yeah but um Getting our students to lighten up and play is a major task That we have whether we're dealing with secondary post-secondary. I think yes So one thing I think we want to point out again is the lesson levels, right? So the intermediate advance for in my curriculum, this would probably be sixth semester That's probably beyond high school. Honestly, that's probably Your very very best students might test in and start in that class, right? A lot of them will actually be probably a semester or so before that And so this is the level where they've already done all this once and they're coming back to it And often in curricula. There's some kind of course whatever it's called that has a very deliberate grammar focus But I think even in those courses, which might be out of the scope of some of what what you teach Um thinking about play play isn't always fun. I know that might be a little controversial Hopefully it's often fun and if it's not fun in the first couple of years We know they give up and they go somewhere else, right? I mean we're we want to keep them learning the language and exciting So play is often fun in the beginning, but play can also be serious Um, but even when you're doing that kind of grammatical work Keeping play in mind keeps all of these kind of nuances the ways in which things can Not fit into those tidy paradigms a lot of the time, but can actually be subverted in interesting ways stays in the focus So we were trying to kind of show look this works no matter what level you're starting at This these concepts of play. Can you just explain again? What do you exactly mean by play? like some of this Especially lesson number two If I were looking at that as a college student like for now for me I enjoyed it right because I like all those terms, but as a college student. I might have looked at it like Okay, I'm not playing with this. This is anaphoric cataphoric, you know, this is not fun We we use the word play because it gets at that non-conventional Creative Nuanced metaphorical those levels of language which actually comprised the majority of language use You know to come back to this notion that that rules don't even come close to Expressing or or describing explaining what a language can produce That's just the reality and that's that's that wall that we just come up against over and over again So this is about trying to break through that wall You can interpret play in a number of ways But but here it really is tied to the notion of the literary the plasticity of language And how we can help learners to Not only cope with it when they're and when they encounter it whether it's in written form spoken form Imagistic, etc Because there's also all these cultural dimensions that that are brought into it too as foreign language learners But then also how they can use that knowledge to produce to express what they want to express to take To take to be empowered to use language in ways that that are often far more Useful and meaningful Then following a strict, you know syntactic or You know rule Yeah, I read the second lesson first and Yes, I looked at the terminology and I thought oh, yeah, but then I recognized that through the lesson and the way that it's structured and Um How you ask students to look at it? They don't necessarily have to understand those terms as they are if they understand What they're looking at in the text they're saying, you know, they're looking at oh, they is used in this way Then they're actually understanding what those concepts mean even if they're turned off by those terms That's right. Um, and they don't have to use those terms And I think like you said I think it empowers students to to to recognize their capabilities in the language So then hopefully when they're outside of the classroom if they encounter something similar in in their the their second language They they recall this experience and they say, okay. I've seen this before I can't get I know I was scared by it But now I'm not going to be turned off by it because I know how to overcome that and so I think this is a good way to help them um Continue to to be inspired to be challenged. I think it's built into the lessons, right? So that that structuring is then it then ties into how we assess and those are skills that we're bringing out Trying to to to articulate so that this can be built into curricular design So something I was wanting to mention and I feel like this is a good moment based on what you said is that Many of you have picked up and I think rightfully so how this relates to Proficiency based language teaching right that there's an emphasis on meaning making and on language use and communication The term authentic text has come up that kind of ties back into that But I think importantly that's also a return to attend. I don't know if it's a return but it's an attention to form as well and to language awareness and that's a sort of Bringing the baby in the bath water back into the tub kind of approach and saying Language use making meaning using language from the beginning all the way through is important But also this kind of language awareness is important and in the beginning levels that language awareness Is going to be drawing people's attention to Specific things through graphic organizers or manipulating. It's going to be Probably free of jargon for the most part, right? And the upper levels sometimes introducing a meta language of vocabulary is a way of refining that kind of attention to language But I think at all levels Uniting that language use and the attention to language that focus on form is really inherent in the approach It was an interesting discussion here, which I think we can Expand to the whole group was about Japanese and The question becomes more broadly. Let's let's listen to junko Talk about how what this text might mean to her in Japanese, but then ask you to also think about in the languages that you teach Whether it's specific to this lesson or or or not, but how How flight How you might interpret it to to to better work with uh your context and languages Okay, so first of all in our group The differences the question you have the first of all differences the we start from a second one and and shantos one and that was just first of all through Uh The conversation part right away. So we really have to let the students think like, okay What does that mean? Oh, who's saying that just like you said on the questions at the end of the first question conceptualizing and That gives you, um, you know, any level you really have to think creatively. We really have to Use the front of part of brain to just, you know, think well about That what the story is about And then I think, you know, we kind of like thought we would be very interesting to start out from that point of view and but also like Before you know shantos time telling us we do you do that first basis before hit to this so Um before we knew it it was kind of like though. Well, might be difficult for the first level You know the beginner level but again, you know, when I heard the shantos said that they're gonna do the basis first in that case Yeah, it's will be probably fun to start out from that part of that, you know, um, literature Then giving you a More information later on adding on to it and then at the end they can create their own You know, uh, kind of like plot and stuff like that. That's very creative and um, the then uh, Joanna started more We thought it was more informative because give your step by step. So is it to follow and But again, you put creativity as well as research in part of it so that will gives them more like ideal which direction they're supposed to go to and Both of them incorporate a lot of creativity. So as I got reading skills and then researching skills Using more like internet system. And I think those are the common things that we saw now that talking about my it I taught Japanese and then unique part of Japanese we don't have a um, well, I shouldn't say we do have the Pronouns, but we don't really put into the sentence a lot so The Chantel's first question now that you know those Six sentences of the conversation. You see a lot on your literature Japanese literature So really have to think who's talking when they're talking We don't even have a singular or plural So you really have to think what they're talking about and um, that I can throw into even the beginner level students a lot a lot of Japanese, uh, I mean students who Takes Japanese they like animation And um, if you have a chance to see animation they exactly if you don't see the picture if you just put the um the You know words coming from the animation And you don't know who's talking or what are they talking or when they're talking So I can use that as a text and then put that into my class and then let them start the conversation and um Depending on what level of the students maybe they can start from the very simple conversation For the beginners or maybe you know for the advanced level they put some more, you know, um, like Complex sentences and then let them think that's what I kind of like thought will be one of the thing I can do So is it all is it all context dependent or are there I imagine there are some linguistic Features that that trigger if you understand what those link the the meanings and functions of those features um Well, if I understand what your question is I I think more like a context We have to read the content find the context from that conversation or sentences What it's in the literature does word order affect meaning? um Sometimes sometimes not to bring to the fore any of those Signals those those clues those those linguistic features that students are not just Again based on certain rules trying to just put in in place But understand what is the meaning of those things and how if I change if it's word order if I change that that Word to hear or if I bring in I know the new japanese and korean and chinese that there is all these morphological Um, I mean not morphological. They're they're they're separate elements, right that that you that that Do a lot of the controlling of grammar, right that are so vast in their Meanings and uses well, that's where you have to bring in that play too, right? So on the on the other hand if we put one sentence and they can play around We can even switch to say the same meaning and same time same meaning So we can put them into them and then let them play around as well. So yeah Your mention of anime made me think this is going a little bit in a different direction But with a beginning level class Another strategy would be to use visualization And again, you have to think about what in the language am I trying to draw their attention to But I was thinking if you had Took off the top of the text and we just had this they were both beat workers of mexican and russian And they were sitting drinking coffee in an all night restaurant I don't have time to do this as an experiment, but I'm willing to bet if I had people draw that You would have drawn men Probably right so so even those kinds of more cultural schemas that can come out of visualizing as well as Attention to well where how many when you hear they right the things like that can help to direct their attention back to a text At these lower levels where they don't have the mastery of language to maybe discuss that in depth in the language itself I'm korean and in korea. I teach spanish So maybe my english is not understandable, but what I I think Comparing to a residence the first one is more Gentle kinder But the second one is more intriguing More challenging I started with the second lesson and I felt The geniusness of Hemingway It it helps me discover the genius of Hemingway because I've learned a lot a lot about the article systems and pronoun system pronounce systems, but I didn't know that Somebody can play with these systems grammatical systems, but with the first lesson Every explanation is step by step So I can understand everything, but I cannot Feel the genius Hemingway's geniusness. So it's more Interesting the second lesson, but it's not very recommendable for korean students who learn English because it's very high level of reference play So it's really difficult to catch the idea, you know So if you treat with the asian students, maybe the first kind of lesson Is more recommendable and if you treat with the spanish speakers They have article systems. So with the second lesson they can be Feel more Challenged Finding out the Hemingway's geniusness after that if I can explain my my My explanation about article systems in western languages and the their absence needs in asian languages What happened is that? Westerners give more attention to the to the individual Individuality of the object and persons. So you have to mark the the identity of All objects and all persons. So you you use article systems But asians give more attention to the relationship between the persons and objects So we we create we have other systems to mark social relationships between persons so It's a little different. We perceive the same things but we focus on different things well I misunderstood actually from the beginning what we should do but Finally, I got it. Maybe because I actually I came some some somewhat late But you said that it's better to compare the two lessons what I noticed From the let's say from the audience knows that Here They follow the whole approach We have the same questions in reading tasks and the same questions but with reading tasks and this like This like make the students Be aware about language and but with enjoying the the literary that they have for example here We have some questions about what does this mean? Who are they them? And who are the characters are and then in the written part We have some question about the pronouns and write the right Maybe a paragraph or some sentences sentences sorry to To refer to these pronouns. So here we have the relation between Actually you found the relation very cleverly how to link reading and writing and in this way we actually improve the students level of expression Write you mean I mean sorry read and then write Yeah, and the theme is one theme which is the hem and guai story I want to flag two things because I know we want to come back to them this afternoon And that have come up several times and comparing the two lessons that are at different levels And what is this question of scaffolding right? How do you scaffold at different levels? What kind of support do they need? What kind of resources do they have? And then also a question that I think we haven't called it that but we've been talking about different objectives right in a beginning level class a more Late and late beginner class your objectives are likely going to be different your learning goals are going to be different than what you're doing at a more advanced course where they're Probably reviewing a lot of these concepts and expanding on that kind of knowledge So we've hit on those really well and comparing them. What about the question? Oh now we've switched slides, but the question about taking these two lessons not As a comparison, how are they different? But how what do they have in common in comparison to maybe other kinds of lessons that you've encountered in working with texts? And moving more in that direction There's integration between them. We cannot separate them. Yeah, the aim is to help the student to get the language With let's say doing greeting and writing Yeah, we can say it's task based Yeah, and with task base. Yeah, this let's say Keep transferring the information from the let's say temporary memory to the long-term memory They can remember and I think these lessons are let's say related to each other Maybe, um, you know at the beginning level we want to To to measure the student knowledge Understanding and then we have to make them Apply analyze and synthesize and sometimes We have to ask them Let's say some of um kinds of high level thinking questions They might evaluate they might create they might as you said we give them the let's say Part of the stories and they have to link them together. They might change or let's say Reinstructs the the events together, but they at the same time. They have to think about the the grammar chances the let's say The words that they they can get Where and when who and what?