 That'll be that'll be exciting. All right, Jennifer. We recently talked about how a place like the Garden of Eden would not be good for humans, because humans have to put forth effort to accomplish things. But sometimes that effort can be a struggle, which can be unpleasant or even painful. So how would you explain the difference between that and the Gordon or the Peterson type idea that suffering is important somehow? Well, I think it's it's it's not so much the suffering. So the problem with the Garden of Eden is that human beings in the Garden of Eden are completely passive. They don't use their minds, they don't think, they don't they don't have to be productive, they don't have to act, they're just there. They take care of the garden, but it's not even clear what that means, right? Taking care of the garden because, you know, God's creature there. I mean, the snakes can talk. I'm not sure they need taking care of. So it's this passive animalistic existence. And that's what makes it bad. It's human beings as animals, right? It's what we would be if we were completely determined. And everything was encoded and God provided us just with stuff and we didn't I mean food, because we didn't want any other stuff. And so we value less. So there's no happiness possible. There's no values possible. So it's not about the struggle and it's about values. So the wonder of human life is not the pain and suffering and which is what I mean, Jordan Peterson is that the focus that's the essence of human life. No, I mean, the essence of human life is a striving for values. It's a striving for life. It's a striving for living the best life that you can live. And that striving is fun. That striving is, yeah, it's fun. It's interesting. It's exciting. It's thrilling. It gives purpose to your life. It makes life interesting. Yeah, it's what life is. It's meaning. You know, Jordan Peterson talks a lot about meaning, but he doesn't get that it's exactly that striving for values. That's what gives you meaning. It's your values that give you meaning. So it's and values means that you act to gain or keep. So you have to act. So the action, I mean, Jordan views it as you're going to die. That's horrible. You know you're going to die. You know it's horrible. So now your entire existence is a struggle to delay death. But it's the opposite. You know that, you know, in a sense, you know you're alive. What a miracle. And the whole point is to live well. You know, that's what survival really means. And that involves embracing life and that involves values and that involves doing interesting fun things, exciting things, stimulating things, using your mind effectively. And that's, that's good. That I mean, that's good is the wrong word. But that's, that's where the meaning comes from. So there's no pain and suffering. Don't mean anything in that sense, right? What is, I mean, I hate it when I show my ignorance of the novels, but I just can't remember who said what when. I think it was Howard Ruoc who said the pain only goes so deep, right? That's right. Yeah, in the phone hit. I mean, the pain only goes so deep. The struggle is only so, I mean, when, when read and makes to the, to the line and it discovers written steel and, and has done it, all those hours of struggling, of pain, of suffering, of physical pain, of sleepless nights, that's gone. It doesn't matter. It's insignificant in the big picture of things. So for Jordan Peterson, that is the essence. And, and the whole point of life is overcome it. No, the whole point of life is to attain your values. And therefore if you attain them, then the pain and suffering are insignificant. It's only when you mire yourself in pain and suffering because you can't attain your values or your values are anti-life that the pain and suffering become the focus of your life. And then it's, then it's miserable. What we need today, what I call the new intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think. Meaning any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, not by feelings, wishes, women or mystic revelations. Any man or woman who values his life and who does not want to give in to today's cult of despair, cynicism and impotence, and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages and to the role of the collectivist. All right. Before we go on, reminder, please like the show. We've got 163 live listeners right now, 30 likes. That should be at least 100. I think at least 100 of you actually like the show. 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