 Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun What's up everyone? I started a little early just to let the crowd build up before old sonot dog gets here How y'all doing? What the fuck is up? I was just looking at this old, this, uh, old hemp BC catalog and thinking, how nice would it be to have some of that NL5 purple indica? I think that would be really cool And I think, I think we might have just made some Eh, but I would be interested to see what the, um, the BC purple indica is like How much different it is Unlike this NL5 Hawaiian indica Now this is the BC Seed Co stuff Which is, uh, probably 5x2, not just 5 But we, we don't know for sure Either way, very cool But I'll Anyway, so yeah, I was just shooting this shit Trying to build shit up before Dude gets here But yeah So what's the haps, ladies and gents? Today we are gonna talk about, I actually haven't written down I wrote things down this time, tried to be more organized for y'all Cause I'm not usually So this is gonna be, it's gonna start off as the bro science episode Which is essentially like Different things you hear in cannabis That like, you're pretty sure are real But they just turn out to be old wives tales No offense to any old wives hanging around Um, yeah So we thought that would be cool when someone gave us that idea And I think that's, that's, that's what's up Um, from the Hawaiian light stuff Probably the dog shit Hawaiian lights Just because of all the unique possibilities that come from it I think that's probably gonna be the one in the bomb threat of course Cause bomb threats to the shit Here we go Here's the so not dog Is Darby lapping up a pool of water All loud as fuck Evening Yo yo yo Yo yo yo What are you doing? Hiding from the heat Yeah me too dude, I have a fan on right now Is the audio weird at all? No Okay good I don't think so Oh yeah, does it smell good? Yeah Oh sorry, Brandon just brought some stuff from Trader Joe's Someone's a strawberry lemon scrub, huh? I wish I had a sense of smell Yeah So what's up, I wrote down a bunch of stuff today to go over And I don't know if you had a chance to write anything down Or do you have anything you want to just start off the jump with We could start off the jump, I mean So we thought we would talk for a bit About bro science versus real science Hold on, let's start off actually, let's do a quick I don't know what you'd call it Just say this is, you know This is what we know as best as we know it right now I am often wrong, constantly wrong And you know, shit updates all the time So this is as best as we know it right now As we were trying to bring it to you But if you find something different And have a strong opinion on it, let us know We're always open to new suggestions and ideas So yeah It is because there's a, yeah I mean that could go for almost any show When we talk about history or this or that or whatever We're trying to give you like a version That we hope is pretty accurate, you know And so on and so forth But there's areas where you can misspeak You know, or just areas where later on You get a detail comes on That changes your perspective on something too Sure So for a long time, yeah Actually our buddy just said We should maybe even talk about that Like flush versus no flush That's actually a really good one But the whole idea is more of like Now that cannabis is becoming legal And medical and all this different stuff There's an aspect where actual science Is getting used on it Where for a long time The science that was getting used on it Was actually pretty limited And so we were left with a lot of observational stuff Yeah And, you know, like breeding and stuff like that And Punnett Squares, all that Like taking other knowledge from other forms Of plant breeding and work And trying to apply it to weed Yeah You know, and it's only really been Probably the last ten years, I would say Five years Someone asked me to bleak You know, five, maybe ten years That it's opened up enough That, like, more science is being done on things Yeah And not only that Not only more science is being done But, like, more reputable scientists in their field Are willing to get involved Yeah And give their opinions on stuff You know And so, like, kind of like a theme Of, like, what we knew then Versus what we know now Yes You know, and because a lot of this information In, you know, history and otherwise The science part is no different A lot of it is oral Yes That's what she said It's passed down from older stoners to you Yeah You know, you hear about it through people you respect And all this different types of stuff And so, you know, there's That's kind of how information was disseminated Yes Amongst groups Yep Forums and little BBSs back in the day Yeah Yeah, little friend circles Little friend circles at the gross store Little friend circles, little this and that The few books or few stuff Or most people would just read stuff from other disciplines Yeah Right, and try to apply it to weed as best they could Adapt, yeah And so people, like, even in the sense of, like, the Even in the sense of, like, medical information Matt and I were talking about this Where it's like, for a long time You know, it still is, it was a schedule one drug And so you needed the DEA's permission To even study it Because you couldn't possess it legally without their say so Right Yeah So for like 40 years, they would do this thing where They would only approve studies looking for cannabis harm Yeah So if you said your study was I want to look and see if it shrinks Matt's balls And gives them anxiety and shortens his life span They'd be like, here's some weed, go test it Yeah, and they'd find out it absolutely does But if you wanted to say I want to see if it lowers not-so-dogs Freakin', you know, blood pressure And like, you know, increases his appetite And lowers his stress Lowers his estrogen Yeah, whatever the case may be They would deny So what happened is Is that they ended up, you got like 40 You got 40 years plus of science Looking for cannabis harms Yeah Because they wanted data points That could prove their case And make keeping it illegal And keeping it the way that it was To have like scientific backing Yeah Propaganda So as a result of that We have a lot of knowledge And we have a lot of extensive studies On what the worst stuff that cannabis does Because that's all they were looking for But we have relatively little shit On what it's good for Yeah And you know, and even stuff like We're gonna have an upcoming episode Where it's all about Aromas and scents and terpenes And all this different stuff But even just the terpene itself aspect Yeah Right? And like, and the names behind those things Rather than people just describing aromas Yeah 20 years ago people weren't talking terps Yeah, I still suck at that part myself Right? Or even like knowing what the terps are Knowing how they combine Yeah You know, I mean like if you take art There's only so many primary colors Yeah But you start blending those primary colors And you can get all these different shades, right? 16 million, something like that Yeah, and you know, to some degree Scents are like that too You start blending terpenes and theols And all these other things that I'll mispronounce Yeah But you know, like when we were getting into cannabis None of that stuff was being studied On any kind of accessible level No No It just didn't exist No, like the closest I saw Like when I was getting in was DJs Like olfactory But that was, that was cool But that was more like a wine Yeah, exactly It was more like a training your nose To other things you might recognize as a scent Yeah That wasn't so much science Like so a lot of bro science Ends up just being like observational shit That may or may not be right Yeah Yeah You know, like I joked with Matt On an earlier podcast or whatever That you know, back in the day Like we used to put our favorite Nugga Mexican in the resin chamber In the resin chamber And you'd smoke, and you'd smoke that last Because the, you know, the science was You're gonna coat that bud In all that unburned THC and resin All that dang fucking resin Yeah, and then the last Nugga you smoke Of your bag is the best one Because it's coated in all that extra free Goo that's gonna get you high Yeah And that was If you scrape the resin chamber first And then coat that on the outside of the bud too That really helps it out But that was, I mean that was like That was accepted science knowledge in my crew Oh yeah, for sure, for sure It was super common in the 80s and 90s Or whatever, right And so you take your best bud And you'd ruin it Yeah Right And then you'd like sit there and smoke it And burn all funny Because it had all this like wet Yeah You know, metal pipe goo But that was accepted That was the accepted thing to do That was the resin They put that there So you could fit a bud in And resonate the bud Yeah That's funny, dude Because we didn't have any science To tell us otherwise Yeah, no It's stunk We knew that much But that was accepted You know, there used to be a thing Which is funny now Because when you dig into history Most fire is herm But, I mean It used to be accepted bro science, right That seeds from hermaphrodites were shittier Yeah, that's bad And that like you don't If you use that Like you could fuck up the line You wanted like straight Male female mating Yeah That was the way to go And if you, you know If you, you know Popped hermie seeds The chances that it would be hermie And you'd never be able to get it out So a lot of people were scared Of beans and buds Yeah, and they also The conclusion was That herms had low THC Every time, too You know Yeah, and then That was a big one The kush and the sour diesel And like a million Phenomenal fireweed Is all like hermie bag seed Yeah You know, but like We didn't understand breeding enough The science of breeding You know We thought that like If you did a male-female You probably wouldn't get the herm gene Yeah But if you hermed a You know Not that if the plant hermed It obviously had the gene Yeah Because it hermed Yeah, because it hermed Because it hermed You know, it's like That's what it did It already had the gene in it Or it wouldn't have done it Yeah, that's a special gene That isn't in most of it That's a special gene That isn't in most cannabis Kind of breaded out The herm gene So we had to So we had to Protopipes are actually made In one town north of me In Willets They're still made there A little shop You know The protopipe Strangely enough Protopipe That was a classic Early head shop Metal pipe Yeah You know It had the lid That went on the top And it had the scraper And it had the little Resin chamber It had the whole thing You know Yeah And so, you know So a lot of this stuff Is like you start smoking And you start learning The legends and the shit Like that around Your little circle And then you start Reading some books You know And that's kind of Where like bro science Comes from Bro science is like People observing stuff And then saying It's true And then other people Around you agree And then it sort of Gains weight Yeah Because like A bunch of people Are saying it You know Some younger person Than you about it And they just buy it Hookline and sinker Oh yeah Yeah So yeah I mean now obviously Like with You know With feminized breeding And stuff like that Like that The whole science of You know Or even like Even here's Another bro science Thing Like Matt and I Were chatting about Which is You know Pale seeds are bad Yes And the best Healthiest Most mature seeds Are all dark And have tiger stripes Yes Yeah And there is Some truth To like Fully tiger stripe Seeds are mature For the most part And pale seeds Can be immature Yes But as any Breeder will tell you That That tiger stripe Is a skin Yeah It's a thin little Layer Like an onion skin Almost On the seed And so it'll And if you blow Your seeds Like we all do We actually put it Through a blower And it blows The husks off and whatnot It's very easy For them to get knocked Around and knock The tiger stripe off So yeah And there's also The fact that You know Like they're Little tiny African Land raised seeds That are like Yeah big That are totally black Or totally gray You know It just Really depends on The region The type The type of pollen The maturity Of the pollen Hitting the plant So But in the back in the day It was pale seeds bad Yeah Yeah And it still And it still persists I mean I was having A talk this week With our Our homie Caleb And he was saying that Like You know a lot A lot of seed He throws into The not good pile Yeah But it would have Pretty damn high Germination rates Yeah most of the stuff That like If anything's Even remotely great Even if I know That's like genetic On it And it's just You know that It's just gonna cause problems People don't Yeah and he'll say You know he'll start out With a bunch of dark Tiger striped seeds And you put them Through the blower And you put them In some bags And you handle them And all that And then at the end There's one or two That have it And the rest of the pack Is Doesn't have it anymore Yeah So You know But that was Like straight science Like if you got All white seeds Was a sign Of immaturity What's one of The broscience I mean I think I started With it With the Resonate your buds But That's a good one Yeah that one And the hermaphrodism Contaminating everything Forevermore And ruining your weed I had a good one And this was Early on When I lived in In Isla Vista I had a dude Come up to me At a party And tell me That he Shocks his plants With batteries To turn them purple And told them That they Shock their plants Meaning Shock it with You know Cold Or extreme Temperatures And he took that To mean Oh I put My car battery Hook that shit up Fucking Jump that shit Turns it purple So that was one of My favorites That you Shock your plants With electricity To turn them purple There was There was always some And the And the issue is Is that When actual Science started getting Into play Before When all we had Was observational traits Yeah Almost all Breeding was All selection was done Based on Observable characteristics Yeah Because that's all you had Yeah How you grow How did it look What the leaves look like What the resin content How did it burn What it tastes like And then Once you started Getting all this data People started Trying to incorporate All this data Into breeding Yeah And a lot of them Fucked it up I like that Someone brought up The Kool-Aid one That was another fave The what? Feeding the plants Kool-Aid to turn them purple Oh yeah Yeah Or adding flavors To the roots Yeah Yeah And make some cherry That way With some Kool-Aid powder to the roots Yeah I mean now It is The one thing that is True is that If you do If you do There's a plant With a jacket sometimes With cold Yeah Yeah That's a common one That's a common one That one's actually true You know Yeah It's got started mostly When you get some cold snap Nights out here Outdoor style Yeah And you'd see some stuff That had been green All summer And all of a sudden It went dark on you Yeah All of a sudden It was fucking black And then you'll see You'll see some people Like You know Trying all that Like pouring ice On top of their weed For the last few years again You know Yeah Yeah You know Sugar water To make it frosty I don't even I think most sugar water Like The pores on the roots Are too small To even absorb it Yeah It's mostly there To like feed The microbiome Or whatever That's in your soil Mass More so than it is To like Shoot up your plant You know Yeah Exactly But But yeah I mean And that's why so many of us Like Look at like Rob Clark's book Like the Bible For a breeder Yeah Because it was like Did he have competition? Not really I mean Later on Was there a weed breeding book? Not necessarily no Other than that one You know During that era Later on, I mean Greg Green had his Breeder's Bible But that was much later That was way, way later Yeah, exactly So not really And he was like Basically like The only person on the hill Yeah So if you wanted to learn How to breed And how cannabis Even worked You know That was where you went Yeah And we got very fortunate That he got so much of it Right For so long We were very fortunate Because it could have been Anyone doing that And Getting it very long And it probably would have Been passed as You know Canon forever Someone just asked me If I have any advice On Greenhouse You know And yeah I've grown in Greenhouses For decades So Yes But I don't know what But you know Yeah There was all this stuff And there was all this Experimentation going on And it was like They were looking for harm In weed Yeah And You know Nobody knew I don't think When was the first time You even heard the word CBN Or CBG Or CBD It was pretty early on But I think Most people Have a difference Between CBG and CBN At the time You know You know I mean I Like we We got some Like we You know We used to call it Pretendica We got bunked a few times We thought was Kindbud And it was gorgeous Hemp Yeah Gorgeous hemp Yeah It was gorgeous hemp Yeah It looked like It looked like $400 Announce weed Yeah But the Yeah I didn't even know That hemp looked like Weed back then Like I didn't even know That they They could be confused For each other at all Like we So Cal We had no experience With hemp Except for when They would bring You know This gorgeous Looking fucking reddish Beautiful Frosty Indica In And we're like Game And we're paying The same prices The max Alright School Pretendica Which is And it grew At the edges of fields And it grew Wild There was a wild population From World War II You know All through the Midwest Basically But yeah I didn't I mean You know Now it's like Now I'd know It was up But then we were So confused Yeah It was How weed That could look that good And like You'd smoke it And smoke You're taking Bong hit After bong hit And you're like Oh, it worked Dude, those guys Must have been Making it Killing Selling that At, you know 60 an ounce Well, the thing about The thing about my area Was Is that There was brown Mexican And there was green Mexican And anything better Than that was Kind bud That went for Expensive Yeah You know I mean Like The quality Only made the price Go up That's what Always killed me Like ours Like it would have way less Seeds You know It was Really beautiful looking But it would It was always the same price As the Mexican It would always blow my mind That anyone was so dumb They'd sell this For the same price But then You know Every single time I'd get Fucking Skunked on it You get Skunked on it Yeah And so There's An aspect too Where it's like What's interesting Low THC Doesn't get you as high Yeah But then it also seems Like once there's Enough THC It doesn't seem to matter And then when there's Too much THC It seems to get in the way Yeah Because Most of our Like famous Elite strains At least the ones That I personally Like to smoke a bunch Yeah They seem to come in Between 18 and 25 Mostly Yeah You know Yeah And all these like 30 plusters or whatever And I don't even think Like when When THC testing started There was almost no 30 plusters Yeah No Because there wasn't Any testing selection That allowed people to see Higher numbers I'll select those Yeah And obviously Without those numbers There no one Selected those They weren't as good Yeah I mean But how would you Really tell a lot Of the stuff That would get you The most high Would be the Or like You know A lot of the You know The sour diesel And a lot of those things Are like in the Low to mid 20s Yeah You know Really good Chem dog can be As low as 17 to 22% Yeah You know It knocks my head off Yeah But it's not That high You know So you need a Certain amount of it But like Nobody had any idea What any THC percentage I mean When was THC percentage Even a thing 2012 When collectives Are getting popular I remember Even past that It took a long time Before collectives Started posting THC percentages On the regular Yeah I mean I think I was smoking For 20 plus years Before There was any Verified ability To get Weed tested For percentages That you could Access Yeah It just didn't exist Like weed was Good because It smelled good And it worked good And you Mitch From the Adam Dunn show Back when he was One of the main hosts On that show He brought on A bunch of the testing labs And it just started Popping up And we were just beginning To understand What a THC standard was Why there was no Consistency between Two different labs All that stuff And I remember He brought them on Iron labs Michigan SC labs And a few others And they ended up All slowly Hanging up On the fucking Podcast And the calls Were complicated And they didn't want To answer that shit So yeah It was Later It definitely was later Yeah It took a while So what that meant Was that For a long time Almost all Breeding selection Was done Based on Your ability To look Yeah You know How does it grow How does it yield What does it look like You know What does it smell like What does it burn like What does it smoke like In modern problems With science You've got people That think That they can grow By numbers Yeah And they're just Looking at charts And they're looking For higher THC And they're looking For certain high terpenes And they're looking For this and that And the Selection Of like I mean This sounds Really bro But like The selection Of like Six or seven Friends Smoking a bunch Of joints And saying Yeah, because at the end of the day, it's all about whether or not humans like to consume it The end of the day robots don't smoke weed. Fuck the man Yeah, well, it's like it's this weird thing too. We're like, I'm not a musician mad is but there's an aspect in like musical Reproduction where like some level of distortion and some harmonics are better than others. Yeah, right Well, did he freeze you froze up froze up on a smile Maybe he's getting a phone call. I don't know. Maybe I froze up. Who knows I guess we'll see But then put them put them not back not back yet Yeah, I also had oh he left so he must have got the phone call or booted or something anyways I have also had on here One of my favorites all reversal sprays colloidal silver I get that non-stop All the time no matter how many times I post my spray someone which I'm in and be like colloidal silver It's just but colloidal silver no one asked about it. Nobody, you know, it's an assumption But yeah, that's one of them. Also, I remember aspirin For reversals was another favorite of mine that people would use aspirin's for their reversals But I'm shocked people don't actually say that anymore and mostly I just share colloidal silver and that's that's what does it all That's what does it all I'm back. All right. Where'd you go? I don't know did all of a sudden you have this weird look on your face And I realized you were frozen and then I was gone and it said basically thanks for playing Yeah, I got an ID message and I was gone. So You know It didn't like me it kicked me Yeah, I was about to drop some secrets and the Illuminati stepped in and was like no we're gonna change the subject Fucking never gonna work never Someone did talk about also in the comments that I thought was funny and a good one was harvest in the dark Hang your plants upside down so the THC flows to the top of the colas That is that is that is some bro science it is strangely enough you definitely want to plant hang your plant upside down But for different reasons. Yeah But yeah, there was there is some weird stuff that I don't know if it's true or not where people talk about Harvesting in the nighttime Harvest having certain amounts of dark cycles because they want the resin to be in a certain state when they harvest Yeah You know the only only thing THC was supposedly Supposedly THC is strongest in the plant at in during the dark cycle. That was the old claim I don't know if that's true or not, but I I I don't know I've seen some scientific stuff that says yeah Actually, you know harvesting in the dark is is when it is you know, whatever that one I don't know the answer to there's a lot of this stuff that's gonna get proven or disproven over time Yeah, you know and some of it like some of it like how good is weed or like what does the testing do for us? We're gonna have to interpret that how well we think it's working ourselves Yeah, because it's obviously like not just raw numbers when it's a consumable that produces an effect on humans Yeah, like at the end of the day, that's what's important Yeah, that's all we care about right is like how that that effect of once we consume it However, you're consuming it, you know And that you can't I don't know that we understand numbers that lead to specifics Yeah, I don't know like we don't even know we don't know why what's interesting is you look at and that's one of the reasons why The THC numbers is so bunk is because I think there's like a big Like misunderstanding about THC percentage and people view it like it's alcohol. Yeah, we're like stronger is better It's yeah, it's more fucked up. Yeah, but for me it's more like You know since there's so many kinds of highs Like what's the math? What's the math? What's the testing that shows you this is gonna be a racy buzz? Yeah, it's gonna make you want to crawl out of your skin. Yeah, this one's gonna make you uncomfortable This one's gonna make you alcohol kind of has the same effects all the way up depending on your tolerance Yeah, but weed does wildly different shit Yeah to everyone depending on time of the day where you're smoking type of strain Everything everything changes Well, yeah people you someone just said isn't science proof Science is proof, but like what's not proof is that THC by itself detonates how? strong a strain it's Yeah, this isn't a quantifiable science yet High experience is not quantifiable. So technically right now science can only take it so far I mean it's it's a number and humans like numbers and they like playing with numbers and it's the one that everybody recognizes Yeah, but there's actually a pretty big movement to get away from THC numbers at all Yeah, it would be nice, but I think that would take so long. I mean, we're still we're still calling stuff like I Mean people are still saying you know all fucking Sativa's do this all hybrids do this all indica's do that, you know like we're still at that stage So long time I'm gonna remember this one because this dude just said flushing is a myth And that's probably actually something cool to chat about but yeah one of the things that we haven't talked about There was a super bro myth is the is You know you can tell indica versus sativa versus broadleaf versus thin leaf Yes, and when you see extreme broad leaf That's how you know it's more indica and when you see thin leaves That's how you know there's some sativa in there and that there's also a high Associated with each if you see those big broad leaves, you know, it's gonna make you go like relax You see those thin leaf, you know, it's gonna make you go. Woo. You're excited Yeah, and so that was that's super strong and the whole the whole indica sativa thing is actually like It's actually outdated now Because it was like it was misclassified to begin with I just think it's so Used currently I don't see us. I don't see us like changing it anytime soon No, unfortunately not as much as people are gonna push and try it's gonna take a long time to pick up because according to like raw science right now What we would consider sativa? They would call indica. Yes from India. Yeah, and what we call indica They would call afghanica From Afghanistan and Pakistan region, they would call it afghanica, right and then what we would call what you know Like and then what we would call ruderalis. They call sativa. I Think you got that a little twisted up, but I know what you're saying. I don't think I have it twisted up I think a little bit twisted up. Where did I twist it up? Where's it twisted? Let's see the sativa would be what was it it was the Sativa was hemp indica was all afghans afghanica was its own thing that was short stout structured afghanis The ruderalis one. I doesn't really change Yeah, something like that. We'd have to look it up because Matt and I disagree so yeah We know it's sweets and dreams probably the most important, but what we can what we can definitely say is that it changed Classification wise. Yeah from 30 40 years ago to now. Yeah But that classification change has not gotten into our common speech Yes, and so we basically as weed people call like indica is anything that's like that's from afghanistan pakistan whatever region and Sativas are various mostly equatorial things from around the globe. Yeah And that's and that's it and and but that's not how they you know And so like we were talking about it just the other day where a lot of the Highland afghans Or cushes from Hindu Kush are a lot more thin leaf. Yeah You know where the like the Bubba type stuff the more low lying Afghans from you know, like low elevation or whatever those are a lot more widely. Yeah You know it's because what is it has something to do with the the The barometric pressure this the the how the leaves transpire leave transpiration and There's that last one. Oh humidity. I mean, that's related to how the leaves transpire But there yes, so when you're when you're in a colder drier More UV environment like a like a mountain Highland Valley Yeah, you want to have thinner leaves because you don't want to transpire too much from your pores Yeah, and you get all the light you need because you're higher up so the atmosphere is thinner So you get more light. Yeah, and you don't need as much. You don't need as big of fan leaves to catch it Yeah, you know where it's your if you're in a humid spot or a lowland spot You could have wider leaves because you know so but that that's there's some bro science there Where we maybe haven't gotten all that figured out. Yeah, but there's definitely pure afghans That have some fairly thin leaves. Yeah, and there was your there's pure Pakistanis or near pure Pakistanis That are pure terpenaline, which is something you usually see from haystikes, you know Yeah, and they would say that and so that used to be I mean that was the way like if you crossed an indica to a Sativa back in the day You would look at all the wide types and be like all these lean afghan Yeah, and every thin type you'd be like, oh, that's an extreme sativa and you might even draw it judge how extreme Based on how tall it was and how thin the leaves were and Thinking you were a hundred percent right. Yeah, when in reality, there's lanky indicates Yeah I remember my first experience with that was a Lebanese that I'd got from a collective and I thought well it was called Lebanese kush and It had very narrow leaves. It grew one big long cola, but it finished in seven weeks You know, but it was it was very red and it had a very Narcotic effect at the same time and I was very confused how this this narrow leaf thing could possibly be a kush or you know I mean like yeah Considered an indica of any any sort. Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting too because you think about the environment of like you know like they in Afghanistan as a way wider range of elevation than anywhere that people grow here Yeah, all the way from basically sea level up to like, you know, seven eight thousand feet Yeah, you know and they have a the Hindu kush mountain range is the second biggest mountain range next to the Himalayas Yeah, so that's seven eight thousand feet or six thousand feet or whatever. It's still mountain valleys Yeah, and there's still peaks that doesn't have anything on it that go way up above that and so obviously the environment there is going to be way Different. Yeah, someone's asking about Asian wide leaf varieties I know there was a chinesis variety or a camera a camera was called the I know ace carried a Chinese Union for a while I haven't seen him But I have heard that there are broadly Chinese plants and that's supposedly where a lot of those came from so perhaps Perhaps I haven't experienced them yet though myself Someone just asked to do potatoes grow underground They do no no no potato trees bro potato Yeah, they did the the potato that you eat does grow underground, but that is a big above ground component Yeah, no, I pick mine off trees. I'm a kind of fucking potatoes. You're eating, but I mean technically, you know all broad leaf Most broad leaf is Asian. Yes, because Afghanistan Pakistan that area of China all Turkmenistan all that that's all Asia. Yeah, that's the heart of Asia really Yeah, I think they're referring to Asia proper. Sure, you know, but I mean it's definitely on the Asian continent Yeah, I'm someone asked about ABC the Australian bastard cannabis front leaf looking stuff now it's classified oddly enough and this is this is from CSI not from my experience, but It is what most people would consider a long flowering, you know narrow leaf type plant as opposed to What I mean, it looks short and squat and you know real compact bushy But it actually is a long flowering, you know super to pindling type plant So probably people most people would classify that as a fever or some type like that Yeah, but it You know as science starts to study this it starts to study this stuff We're gonna learn a lot more about like how the science impacts. What's important to us? Yeah, like Matt and I danced around that so and maybe I'm bad for bringing it up because we were gonna do a whole show on it At some point, but certainly the difference between not understanding genetics And not understanding real science had a massive impact when certain companies started offering genetic Testing and promises based on genetic testing. Yeah, you know And promising that they could reveal familial relationships and they could sort of unlock this like oral history Yes, and provide like a factual web of interrelated and interconnectedness Yeah, and they got people to pay them and send them tons of of DNA for it Yeah, they did and it's essentially and You know and it ends up being that Most mostly what everybody paid for and risked their genetics to send in was never on the table anyway Yeah, it was not It was totally inconsistent data as far as that goes Allegedly like you know for to use humans for instance. Yeah genetics can be like this is 100% These are my children. Yeah, that's your grandpa. Yeah, that's your mom. We can prove it and That's kind of what we were looking for With weed like this is your first cousin. Yeah 100% 23 and me for cannabis, you know, that's your great grandpa. That's your great grandmother. That's your mom Yeah, you know and We didn't understand enough of the science To really like that, you know, they came out and they made a bunch of claims and everybody sent them a bunch of genetics and a Bunch of money and at the end of the day, no one got what they wanted. Yeah, they did Yeah, you know Unfortunately we as humans we tend to think about plants like humans and we know that we can do you know genetic relational data We can find someone based on their cousin now You know like people are being put in prison based on this kind of data or tracked down old serial killers But plants and especially cannabis are much more complex creatures with expressions based on environment things like this It's a lot different and and there's they needed a lot more I guess what you'd say is they needed a longer read system than they had they had a short read system And it just wasn't Accurate enough to portray the data they were trying to say and and to me I think it goes back to the bro science of well, they had these these different categories like hemp like Blueberry no no blueberry was hemp if I remember correct me that hemp they had like og kush they had these Yeah, they had different. Yes skunk But they didn't quite say what to find these things into these categories, but they were Organized by these categories and people still reference those as like well It shows mine is obviously more og kush and skunk than you know, etc Because they were that's why I said 23 and me and compared it to humans because when you talk genetics for plants like You know, we don't understand very much So it's like you try to relate it to the next thing that you understand some of exactly and we're like oh I want to I want to see if chem 91 is You know is it you know is it sour diesels grandmother like we think is this related to this are they are the are the Chems all sisters are they this are they like you want all that stuff? Yeah, you know and You know it it we didn't get it Yeah, you know and I don't know that and you'd almost probably have to take somebody who was an expert in that relative field Yes, who had our back? Yeah, and our interests at heart to tell us Whether or not the method the methods that they're using and what they would need to give us the answers We're looking for what what it ended up taking with someone that Was super precise with their catalog that probably has more history and knowledge with their own catalog That is more resourceful and sourcing and more anal about sourcing to then Supply parent child grandchildren and then backwards test it and see if they were able to meet up that way Yeah, I didn't mean spending a lot of money to get any I didn't even bring up the fact that like you get multiple different cuts That come in all with the same name. Yeah, I was just more talking about like the bro science of like We have all these stories of how things are related. Yeah, right like for instance, you know like the Supposed like the old Betsy and the bull rider from down there and your neck of the woods are supposedly sisters. Yeah, right? Yes, we don't have proof. No Just stories just stories. Yeah, you know, so like we have all these stories and so Basically, it's like it's like we're gonna have this like huge industry Where you don't have decades of science behind organizing all this shit the way you would any other big value crop Yeah, it's all coming out of the woodwork and it's a huge fucking mess And there's a bunch of liars and a bunch of hucksters and a bunch of deceitful ass fools Trying to lay claim to old seeds and it's like so Somebody gets took on some seven early 70s Colombian gold Yeah, pure from my uncle or whatever, right? Yep, and then that and that gets entered into something. So how do you even know what's real to start your basis for? Well, that's that's like when I first talked to philos and I talked to him I told him and I said you you need you need to consult with someone and much better than even myself Who has a better collection and understands cannabis provenance better than anyone else in the scene? If you do not hire them and keep them on staff, there is no point in even doing this because you have to start with good base Genetics to be able to develop this system. You have to have a reliable source for skunk one reliable source for Northern lights by a reliable source for haze. You have to have all that reliable source for SFEOG all the different og cuts and without all that reliable source Everything else is bullshit because you can't crowdsource cannabis because most of the time the the most fake cut rises to the top Yeah, I mean certainly they would have a heart and they they wouldn't be able to tell anyway So they would have this thing where it would be like well these five cuts of chem D say that this but then there's these other Weird ones that got sent in and say that Yeah And how would how would someone know? They would have to hire someone and that's what they were all too lazy to do They were too cheap and too lazy and until a company actually does that they're gonna get nowhere And every company that tries it is going to spin their fucking wheels because that's how cannabis is as a bro I don't know enough about Cannabis and plant genetics to know what the framework would be to even get what we're after Yeah, I have no clue. I don't know what that would be at all. Like I'm I'm not qualified You know what I'm saying to like judge. I would have to we would have to find somebody that was into that That knew enough that wasn't gonna bullshit us They could look at their methods and their this and their that and figure out You know because I would assume like with humans they figured out what the Swedish gene pool was like by testing a bunch of Swedes Yeah, yeah, you know and they were able to go around the different human populations and they got enough data that they were able to see differences Yeah, but I don't know because I'm not a geneticist I think I think because the human genome was so thoroughly mapped and I don't believe the cannabis genome was thoroughly mapped yet Or maybe it's just too expensive to run these type of tests at the moment. It could be that So, you know, there's an aspect where it's like we have all these oral tales about how things are related Yeah, and we have no way of discerning if they're actually true And every time it's been promised so far. It's been cheating Yeah Yeah, you know, it's it's it's been very upsetting and disappointing all of the above and I think I think what most people don't know Is it like? Philos did shut down their genetic testing. They're no longer taking in tests supposedly to do genetic testing Currently the database if I'm correct is still up so if anybody fills the need back it up because it may not always be up and Some of these people who you know paid for these tests might want that data someday And what's risky about it is we I was just having a different convo but you know like Now that we're getting into science and now that we're getting into legal stuff a Lot of the science behind it and a lot of this testing and a lot of this other stuff People are nervous because they're worried that it could be used to You know lock access to stuff. Yeah, like you get the genetic code for something and you lay claim to it Yeah, you know or you use it or you know like Philos had a whole like, you know backhand aspect of what they were trying to do Yeah, and so a lot of science, you know science isn't just sitting there waiting or it's you know science is done by humans Yeah, and those humans can have like a variety of goals Yeah, so we're just so like for weed nerds You're all just trying to get some like raw science to like answer questions and figure out stuff you want to know Yeah, so one thing Bro science that's going on right now that Matt can speak of extensively. Okay is that? Most reversal stuff is very bro Yes, in the sense that there's not hard data on what to do and You know Matt and Caleb and other friends that do that shit what really extensively There's certain strains where it's very likely that a certain amount of Spray yeah is very effective and too much or too little is not yeah, and it can vary by strain it can vary by Clone of strain it you could have two clones one inch from each other and give completely different reactions to the same exact amount of spray it is It is the data is so incomplete And I think the most data is coming between you know guys like me and Caleb or whoever else talking and putting together our notes What have you seen? What was the what was the ppm's of the spray? What kind of spray we're using what was the you know, what was the constituents of the spray? How often were you spraying was it a trigger? Did you know there's all kinds of things that go into it and and as of right now? Because controls are never going to be that good until you have a you know multi-million dollar facility Until that's going on and the trials are being done in places like that I think we're going to be keep spinning our wheels So yeah, so the majority of the of the seed market right now is feminized at least the American one And it's very bro science and that it's observational stuff past amongst friends Yeah, or maybe some tutorials that you can read on what to mix and what to use and so on and so forth Yeah, but there's a there's obviously like and there's even stuff that you know Caleb Ramat has shared with me where it's like here's this plant doesn't matter which one But here's a plant and I've sprayed four different types of reversal mix on it Yeah, and this one is the only one that worked Yeah Right the other all the others failed But then you use that same spray on on some other strains And it doesn't work nearly as well as the ones that failed on the that plant. Yeah So there's like a big there's probably in my mind. There's like a vast amount of knowledge to figure that out Yeah, the one thing that we were finding that's holding true is that Each different type of spray is as inconsistent as the other Meaning some that are let's say someone uses colloidal silver. Someone uses Silver with isulfate someone uses Cobalt chloride Each one is going to be like The cobalt chloride stuff might be better with like TK, you know, but it's not always going to be that consistent It's not always going to be effective And each one each different type of spray is just as inconsistent as the next because there are so many different expressions It's really really fucking hard to explain and and you just can't quantify it yet We cannot quantify it yet because for the most part with some rare exceptions in normal breeding You can have a few males and you can get an incredibly dense amount of pollination and seeds But you know off off of a off of a you know a project making regular seeds as a vacation Making regular seeds. You don't really need that many males depending on how big it is And getting of getting a vigorous and thorough pollination with with a few simple tricks is quite yeah Yeah, literally reversals are like going into the casino With a bunch of tips and ideas on how to beat the house And you're hoping that you come out ahead that time and every time the the best advice I give everyone is numbers The more numbers you have the more of a chance you have of being successful that round And if you can't afford to lose then I you know keep a lot of male plants clones of the earth Keep a lot of clones of the same plant reversing do several if you can't afford to Miss so yeah, I mean there's there's not there that that that whole area is ripe for a bunch of And a problem is is there's no there's no direct money in it right now Yeah, that kind of experimentation to go on to really open unlock that side of it So it's just interested breeders sharing knowledge and guessing Yeah, and every breeder that's the thing you should realize about all these When you ever you buy feminine seed You know, I always talk about how like you know breeding is a lot of failure and mostly what I mean is That it doesn't give you the results and the children that you were hoping for yeah all the time That's mostly what I mean, but what it what's also true is that there's a lot of failure in reversals, it's it's expensive total failure You know very very light pollination You know all that and and so you know in addition to the failure of just normal breeding There's you know the failure to make seed Yeah, the and the main problem like for people that are wondering what the issue is when we say a failure What's going on almost every time? When I did the the 13,000 plant reversal I saw three plants in 13,000 that didn't reverse at all They had no male parts that stayed all female and didn't take any kind of hormonal treatment That's three and 13,000 that's it's so rare to even be able to observe that Most of the time what you'll see is a plant a female or a female plant you're reversing We'll start to form male parts after about three and a half four weeks But the parts will instead of like on most males will the ball balls will hang as they mature on on a female plant when you reverse it the balls cluster hard as if they were a female bud and Whatever happens in this action is where it doesn't allow the the male parts to mature it just doesn't allow them to mature because it's they're all clustered so hard and We don't know what exactly causes that clustering There's a few trick tips and tricks like where you can use Acid spray it really lightly and hope that you know if the the anthors and everything expand a little bit and cause a little bit Give it a little bit more room to mature, but yeah, that's that's the main action Most of the time you'll see balls not all the times will the balls open and drop or mature Yeah, cuz there's like there's an open drop on a male and then all this pollen comes out But it's like if they're all stacked Every which way tight then they can then they don't open and so sometimes there's pollen in there and our friends have had success Manually removing that pollen get tweezers you pull it out and you shake it out in little bag one by one And that's that we consider that a failure if you have to do that You know right or or using using various kinds of mesh or screens or different things and trying to get the pollen Separated from the rest of the flower because you don't want to fail even more than you've already failed Exactly, you're trying to get at least even if it's not a sellable amount of seed You're like well, I at least want some that I can like run Yes, and test and give to my friends and see what's in it because I mean I want to see what's in it Yeah, you know But there's a lot of manual pollination that goes on with with reversals simply because it's all bro science Yeah, and I mean I can speak to this more than I can but I mean when reversals first started happening When was the first time that like a tutorial got posted on? One of the forums because it was pretty tightly held information for a minute I can't remember the dude's name, and I really wish I did because he deserves credit, but the dude I know Fett later posted it on from Spice Brothers posted on over grow And it was a basic tutorial on how to make spray that will be effective It was the 2.5 or 0.5 2.5 I think it was combo of silver nitrate and sodium thiosulfate mixed it, you know 500 milliliters a piece you mix it in then 9 to 1 on On the the ratio dilution rate and that became where most people started and you know Some people took it further from there and worked more On the ratio to perfect it for certain types of strains and strains are more popular now And some people stuck with that and still use that to this day and and have effective success Yeah, I mean we had we have some friends that have some funny stories that like fucked up the dilution ratios early on and Sprayed like way too strong of a solution and like half killed the plant Oh, yeah, but then it reversed really well Yeah, you know a bunch of leaves died looked all haggard and heinous and all that, you know So I mean there's there's an aspect and then it's there's this thing too where Like the scientific method is like you do an experiment and then you get results And then other people are able to replicate that Over and over and over again, and if enough people do that well now you've got some accepted Science right? Yeah, the problem with s the problem with reversals is someone does something they write it all down They document just exactly how they did it and then somebody else does that same thing with the same plants and they fail Or it doesn't go back very well. Yeah, and so the replication part. We haven't even gotten to that. This is how you do it Yeah, these are the these are the factors. These are the things you take into account to dial it in Yeah, it's hoping and guesswork Yeah, you know and that would even do a thing he would tell me that sometimes he would reverse three or four different strains Yeah, always have backups of backups of backups because he he wanted, you know, he was interested in breeding with all of them Yeah, and whichever one reversed the best Yeah, was gonna be the males that was used and that that obliterated some failure Yeah, you know because you're trying to mitigate failure. Yeah You know and that's and I don't know that that that that like observational bro science isn't changing anytime soon because I don't know when Like corporate paid for science is going to get to Looking at reversals. Yeah doing a bunch of Non-profitable work to figure out how it works and to leave the info open source after that. Yeah, it's not very likely Yeah, and to not just sit on that proprietary style. Yeah, because they figured it out Yeah, you know and so how so that that aspect of things so there's all this stuff where like real science could help us But how do we as grungy weed people access it? You know something going on right now Maybe we could talk about that too where it's like I Mean, I wasn't worried about disease at all in the 90s Yeah, you know and now Viroids and dudding and pathogens have become a massive issue Yeah, and by the time we had testing for them They were everywhere right now right like I got people texting me all the time about viroids. Yeah, there's all kinds of post It's an all kinds of you know It's like it's gonna get to a point probably in the legal market where when you buy clones They're gonna have to have viroids free tests. Yeah. I mean, I just heard that some little hot phone brought a bunch of clones over to Barcelona and ruined a bunch of Libraries serious libraries that were keeping old strains at European strains because You know people people over there are trying to import our shitty gelato with look in HPLV And that's what happens. Yeah, I mean I'm to the point now. I buy one of those like hundred pack of razors Yeah, and if I'm taking cuttings or something. It's a new. It's a new razor every plant. Yeah, I take a lot more precautions I used to just use a razor until it got dull Yeah, take two three hundred cuttings with it and then it stopped cutting quite as well and I'd pop a new one And this this goes back to what we were talking about the bro science someone just asked if reversals were normal Back in the day when I would you know debate people about it I would point out really quickly that actually we we as humans have tried to breed out the intersex trait and the intersex trait Is actually standard in cannabis? So Technically reversals are bringing it back to where it was and more natural Then what we have done by humans breeding intersex traits out of the plant So yeah, because I mean that was the big thing was like people. Oh, you're doing something so unnatural to the plant Yeah, you're ruining it. You're ruining it because it's unnatural and I would always point out, you know, actually We're moving it back to more natural and intersects. We touched on that with like the the hermeseed start with hermeseeds You're ruining the line. Yeah, but there was a lot of prejudice because people thought that they you were permanently Altering the cannabis gene the genes. Yes by doing this cheating thing Yeah, and I've mentioned it before on previous podcasts, but up until the late 80s early 90s Seatless weed really wasn't very popular So all weed was seeded. Yeah, you know, so if a plant had a bunch of hermaphrodites Oh, well, there was a bunch of males anyway. Yeah You know all that tie all that this all that hash stuff. They didn't care as much if it got You know like it there was just herms weren't that big of a deal a few seeds here and there Yeah, there was gonna beat the fuck out of it anyway They're gonna beat the fuck out of it anyway They're gonna turn it into hash. Yeah, and then all the smoking cultures the Colombian the Panamanian the Jamaican all that Most of that came chock full of seeds the Mexican. Yeah, so a few more seeds from herms. How's it any different? Yeah, it was it was when we started trying to grow seedless That we were like, hey, there's this built-in trait to cannabis that we don't like what the fuck is it doing here? Yeah, yeah, why is a breeder? Do you allow this to exist and and threaten my room of pure? You know because it's like the most unnatural thing in the world is what we do to cannabis Yes, if we grow it for flour. Yeah, we're denying it what it wants to do I forgot this idea. I don't know if I showed you. This is the LA coast triangle. Oh Yeah, it looks like it's got some triangle density. Yeah, it's very strong But it actually smells exactly like fucking sour Sorry interesting. I just got sidetracked People but so you do get regular males on reversals Somebody just asked that Technically yes, but I don't think they test male like if you were to sex test them they would sex test female They are just expressing male. So I would understand the difference between I was pressing in And genotype I'll put it this way Okay, so I did like a 13,000 seed pop of CSI work which you're familiar with right? Yeah, and out of that we probably got out of that 13,000 seeds. We probably got about I Don't know 80 to 100 Observational full males. Yes. Yeah, no female flowers Full pollen not hermaphrodite not hermaphrodites where they had both. Yeah, but for them But for the most part full balls full everything. Yeah, you know And so, you know, that's obviously not that many out of out of that many seeds. Yeah But you know, we're we're playing a little Dr. Frankenstein with with plants where it's like they just want to you know, they're not they're Their breeding isn't to provide us with what we want. Yeah, they're trying to make seed for the next generation and do their thing And someone said no, they would not test male. They would test female. That's that's Observationally what we've seen so far anyways. Yeah, I mean we know that so, you know a certain percentage and then you know It's not so much the to us. It's not so much the method you use It's more that does the plant have it in its genes or not Yeah, because one of the reasons why for instance, you guys don't see a bunch of diesel s1s on the market is Because diesel is famously hard to reverse. Yes, there's some things with audits There's some things that harm but almost never will successfully reverse. Yeah, and there's some things that reverse like a champ Yeah, you know and there's some things that reliably reverse Nine times out of ten and then one of those times it won't drop any pollen and you'll fucking smash your balls in a drawer There's nothing asked that 13,000 seed hunt was in Southern, California. Yeah, I mean we did we did a 13,000 plant reversal and made a few million seeds, but like hunting 13,000 seeds isn't that common. No, it's no It's a luxury for someone to be able to do if it was one of the I was I was helping on one of the bigger farms In Southern, California at the time But there is there is an explosion now of 80 acre 40 acre 25 acres, you know this that everything else those 13,000 plants they took up about seven acres But there's also the factor and I you know I saw this with The the seed pop at the at the hemp place and everywhere else Testing is a bitch when you do 13,000 plants because someone's got a smoke at all if you're gonna do a phenohunt It was too many. Yeah, it was too many It wasn't it wasn't there was a lot of non-ideal things about that particular project for sure But people get excited and money does what money wants to do, you know And so yeah, I mean even even even growing out three or four hundred plants. Yeah, and trying to objectively test the smoke. Yeah It's it's it's it's rough. Yeah, very, you know at some point you're you're gonna you're gonna start missing things Yeah, or you know as as as Caleb likes to say just look for the runtiest shittiest Most nastiest production plant you've ever seen and let your smokers try that one and that'll be the clear top five Yeah, yeah, the one that you're hoping doesn't taste and smell and smoke like it actually does Yeah, and then all the beastly production plants. They'll be like man Okay, you know what someone just brought in something good, so we'll jump on it Did you guys cover bro science of male selection and I don't we haven't no not yet Not at all. We haven't talked. There's a bunch of bro science with male selection Yes, the number one thing that I am asked as a seed maker is what do you look for in your males, bro? Like and that's the assumption that I only look for certain traits in males And if they have those traits then I use them, which is a thousand percent how I don't do things I usually start with a an idea An end goal like I want a plant that's gonna be let's say strawberry and Have pretty dense structure and kind of short and squat and from there I will think of different lines where I can achieve that and Then select a male that has the traits that I want and same with the female and that's how each project is done and achieved So different different male for different female for different purposes You know some bro science that I would classify that. I don't know has been scientifically proven Is if it showed flowers in beds you chuck it Yeah You know sometimes people would even torture it like this is some bro science where you'd be like I'm gonna torture this male Yeah, I'm gonna keep a cutting of it. I'm gonna grow it way too big in a solo cup I'm gonna let it drought three or four times. I'm gonna beat it up. I'm gonna do weird shit to it Is it stable? Yeah, yeah, yeah the the testing males aspect was was a big popular thing people used to say on the forums I'm gonna I'm gonna stress test my fucking males I'm gonna stress test these females and see what we can do to them and to me I was I always had an opposite point of view on it and I'd be like I don't want people to grow my plants like shit So if they grow them like shit, of course, they're gonna earn so what's the point of that? You know and stress testing males well if you throw any male in a fucking tiny little cup It's gonna fucking autoflower 99% of the time, you know Where the plant is desperate to do what it's supposed to do Which is make seed and produce provide the next generation. Yeah, so you beat the shit out of it and You know it some of them might panic and be like no matter what I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do. Yeah There is actually it's interesting one of the things we should we should and this is something that we might have a friend on at Some point. I don't know but he goes by the handle on IG of 707 seed bank. Yeah, we call him Shahbud But he was one of the guys he would reverse males and Smoke them. Yes, because he wanted to see what the resin production and what the perps were and what the smoke was like as a female plant Yeah, I would do the same thing But I wouldn't smoke them because there usually wasn't enough smokable content to make it worth it But I get an idea for for the terpene production of the male and that way when when I ran the progeny from said male I would be able to identify. Oh, this is coming from the male and that's why you know Yeah, so that was just another way of trying to get information because I think Matt calls it the shotgun method Yeah, where a lot of times you don't really know you have some observational things Is it tall is it short that it flower early did it not does its flower custers look look sexy Yeah And then you use that one and then you got to grow out seeds and be like did this pass the traits that I want Yeah, and you know Neville and other guys that like grew up in the era of all male female breeding You know finding the male was the biggest bitch Yeah, finding the one that would consistently pass the traits that you want to the progeny That was the whole game and it's still the biggest bitch in the game I think even though reversals are technically harder because of the failure rate I think that breeding wise it's much easily easier to select a female from observable traits Then it is a male knowing what observable traits he'll pass. I mean we could use Neville as another example Just because it's super famous But you know when he went to jail in 1990 one of his crew found this cut in Nl5 haze and skunk haze Yeah, and it was like a sea of turpentine and cat piss and weird shit and they found this one amazing plant and then When he when he started working at sensey They started breeding and that he started trying to find different skunk haze males that he would cross to his favorite Nl5 haze females to get that line. Yeah, and that's what Jack Herrera came from Yeah, but he still wasn't happy with it So they worked on it for two or three more years with Shanti And that's what the mango haze and the Neville's haze and the and the Super silver haze came from yeah, and the whole time that the mom's never changed The whole time consuming process was was choosing four or five males and crossing it separately to each Female and then growing out the progeny and seeing if the progeny was worth a shit and gave it what it wanted If I remember correctly, he didn't even like breeding with female hazes He thought that the magic to haze was in the males if I remember correctly Yeah, he says that and I'm an admitted big Neville fan. Yeah, but even I will say that two things one is that The males are what he ended up with Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah So it's good to say well this haze. See this was the clear winner This is the one to be used and to only be using males one of the things That's interesting is when you're growing out some 18 or 20 or 22 weeks ativa thing, right? I'm Collecting pollen and then pollinating a room of much more skunk indica females. Yeah, there's a lot easier timing Then timing pollen drop to use a female You know so mature those 22 week long fucking flowering seeds Yeah, I'm sure those 22 week long flowering seeds contained within the female And What it sounds like to me is that he had some amazing females and he just lost them and didn't realize what he had until they were fucked Yeah, perhaps, you know, there's a scene a lot of pictures of original haze of Plants where people are like this is the fucking one of original haze. This is the you know There's a lady named hazy lady and you might be able to find her picture still on mr. Nice. She was one of the only people I saw they consistently grew depositronics haze 19 Tom Hill they consistently grew it beautifully and I could say it was a beautiful haze grow that rarely rarely if ever Did I see beautiful haze females? So yeah, and I mean there's an aspect there where it's like what it sounds like he even you know After four or five years of having haze It sounds like Neville ended up with literally one living plant that he could work with in the future. Yeah Which was haze see yeah, you know sense for old seeds, you know, you know and But it sounds like if he knew what he had he probably would have kept all of them alive Yeah, and been more careful. I would buy so by the time he realized how special it was He'd fucked it off. Yeah Somebody wants to talk about the 56 day headband You can if you want I can talk about the 56 day So there's some aspects of it that I don't like but the the story is as as generally as I can as I can say is that It was called something else in Southern, California, and it was from it was it was from within that that Kush crew down in Southern, California Yeah in some aspect and that Kush cut and those cushions it was worth a lot of money And there was a lot of shit going around with it and something happened with that cut where there was some violence right and So somebody fled So Cal and came to the bay with that cut and they didn't want to call it what it actually was Yeah, okay, so they were trying to figure out because they wanted to grow it and sell it So they were trying to figure out like what can we do so we can grow and sell this cut? But it's not going to create any more heat that's gonna follow us from down there because what happened down there was hella hella sketch Right. Yeah, and so they decided You know They decided to rename it headband. Yeah you know and We I don't know for sure what it was called before Yeah, you know, but it's the nicest Kush type plant that I know like the of actual Kush You know or what we would consider a Kush type like the SFV or the or anything like that You know like it's the most potent to me. Yeah, and Sometime in the you know 04 or 5 or something like that right around there It's slipped out in the bay. Yeah, and that's how I got it And that's how some other people that have it have it and we call it the 56 day There's a huge debate about when to take it Yeah, some people like to take it long like 10 11 weeks But a lot of people like to take it at eight or nine weeks and they feel it's like the most potent then Weird it gives you the highest high and like the the edginess and the raciness and the all that different types of stuff So it's got some mystery, you know, there's some name. I mean obviously like I'm just there's the different names I know I think Duke would call it the rest-stop Kush because that's where he got it from There's the 56 There's many people called the murder cut and stuff like that, you know, some people tried to some people try to to push it as You know, it's the original New York City headband, which we now know is totally false. Yeah But you know to me like when it comes down to it, I would classify it as far as things I hold It's in the top three or four potency wise. Yeah. Yeah, it's really really good weed and I usually pull it I usually pull it between eight and nine weeks. Yeah 60 days 59 days 63 days Something along something along that that level, you know, it probably has other names other places There's a few people out there that might know the the first name, you know, yeah But it is it's a really pure og cut That's the one that I tend to use in all the the if I have anything marked headband That's 99% of the time what I'm using. Yeah, cuz his homie had it for a long time Yeah, I mean now now we know that, you know, the original headband is the mama sour And was a very diesel type fluffy, you know Yeah, Fox taley type cut. Yeah, so these couple cuts that are floating around that are that are called headband And you know, they're not and they're most most things that are called headband are really great weed You have really great ogs. Yeah, but there's a few that are really really really great og kush types Yeah, and they're not related to New York, which doesn't you know, it might fuck with some people's stories But it doesn't change how nice the cut is itself. Yeah, it just happens to be Yeah, it's it's different this dude saying it's different. It's not my la cut It's not lupus cut. It's not the 707 It's not even a headband. Yeah, it was renamed headband because whatever name it had before was sketch Yeah, so now it's just called headband. We called the 56 mostly as an identifier. Yeah Because I mean it's an identifier eventually you have to you have to figure out some tag That allows that allows you to identify stuff. Yeah, you know, I mean before the internet We just called a chem dog dog Yeah, we didn't need it to be scum fa cut or chem 91 or that like that's all internet names Yeah, so that people can communicate about it And that's the same thing with the 56. It's a gorgeous og kush Type plant. It's incredibly potent. It's super flavorful. It's really nice It's probably the best kush. I know of You know and it has mysterious origin First someone's question is there somewhere you can review this if you've missed the live feed. Yes On the riot seeds the account. I'm on not right seat cover right seeds You can go there's a little tab area where there's a little play button You click that and you can see all the videos that we've uploaded Some people are asking if we're gonna have the audio podcast back up I'm gonna do my best to get that all probably need some help with someone going and extracting the audio Portions of all of these shows for the past. I don't know. I think six Episodes I need to get that so someone's really good with audio and you guys can extract that that would help a ton I'd really like to get the audio podcast back up and going We got to learn some stuff on the fly to keep this shit going, but we're gonna do our best to manage it So yeah Yeah, and I mean we've been trying to do these lives every Friday and be consistent I know a bunch of people like to listen to them on a podcast. We're sorry That it got delayed, you know, you got a bunch of them up And then at all the sudden it it came down people are I described the flavoring of the 56? I wouldn't say that the 56 Has the best kush flavor But it is that kind of kush. It doesn't have a bunch of lemon like some of the ones It's good. It's pretty it's got earthy, but it's got that like Cushy a type like mouthcoat type thing, you know, but it's got rare potency Yeah, I mean when I'm not kidding when I say it's like it's I mean There's some people if someone told me it was in their top one or two favorite cuts as far as what it does to you Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. It's it's it's in the top four or five things that I have It's super Po it's really yes, and it does this even though it's even though it's very cushy. It's got this weird Anxiety thing You know some people won't smoke it because it gives them massive anxiety. Yeah, it gives it gives me hella anxiety It's one of the people that there's like there's friends of mine They're wives and stuff like that Matt others like it gives it like tweaks them out and makes them uncomfortable It's on a happy high. Yeah You know doesn't do that for me. It just gets me hella baked But for some people it triggers them and it's not good That's but it is but you always say after you wake up from a nap after smoking it that your asshole hurts, and I Super weird, I mean that's the company you keep Yeah Inland so Cal what can you say? What can you say dude? What can you say? But it's one of those? It's a it's it's one of my favorite cuts It's a really nice. It's a really nice plant You know, it's it's it can be a phoenix EOG. I mean there's aspects where I There is no difference between chem 91 and scum VA. They're the same thing. They're just different monikers for the same cut I have what James loud asked me that you got the chem 91 or you got the scum VA You know, there's more than one cut that floats around that is true So, you know what you know, there's that but but it all those names originate from one cut. Yeah You know and Yeah, and then you know, so there's an aspect to where it's like getting back to that Real science could tell us one day. What the 56 How closely it's related to other things? Yeah, it could take the oral history of them and some of that mystery You know and and they could clear that up There is no answer to which one is better D or 91 because it's personal preference You know, I would say both of them are in my all-time favorites But you know some people I would say the opposite. Yeah, some people don't like them, you know But you know, there's there's an aspect where and someone asked this TK the original kush I think TK is likely one of the original hybrids. Yeah, the question is is we don't know how many We don't know what it is or exactly what it came from very well Yeah, and we think that there might have been more than one And we think that most kush are bag seeder s ones from those originals But we don't know exactly how many different originals there were Yeah, we don't We know there's a lot of bag seeds of bag seeds and sisters of sisters You know and things of that nature and so it's hard and so that's another thing that that real science could explain to us Yeah, perhaps one day You know, I actually think to be honest, this might be controversial people might get pissed at me but I think that that the the the kush that Josh D and and Matt and those guys brought to LA Is is likely lost? Yeah, and I don't mean like lost like nobody has it I mean like the chain of custody got fucked up enough and now it's it's really hard to prove that this specific one is guaranteed it and this person has had it and You know, it's like it might be out there is SFV Yeah, it might be out there is 56 day headband It might be out there is this that the ghost of today is not the ghost of yesterday There's multiple SFV cuts that flow it out there Oh, yeah There's so many Renames and so much stuff happened in LA and the original people lost it and got it back and stuff that Like I think it might still exist but under different monikers Well, I mean and then we had certain companies like Cali Connection They would make certain strain names like their seed lines would be SFV OG So now a bunch of people are growing their seed lines And then they have cuts of things called SFV OG now there's 3000 SFV OG cuts all claiming to be the original, you know, we did that with Larry He did it with Tahoe. He did it with several So, yeah, the provenance on those are just damn near impossible now to go back and there's two or three SFVs that are popularly traded amongst people and they're different Yeah, you know, but there's an aspect where it's like the TK at least you have really you have some pretty good chain of custody Yeah, and that cornbread Ricky Sent it but even before he moved to California sent it to some people in California Yeah, and then he brought it with him and it doesn't appear to have gotten lost by the original crew And there's still good chain of custody on that one You know the Josh cut or you know the the Matt Bubba cut or whatever you want to call it like That one got a little lost in the wave of the OG movement and so Cal Yeah, and so people can say the 92 is that cut Or the kush cut is that cut the kush cut is that cut the the ghost the real ghost is that cut The SFV that I have is that cut and then you put those four cuts in the room And you grow them all out next to each other and they're not the same week. Yeah so some of those people or or They're the same cut Brought to completely different environments Completely, you know found a whole different way of expressing and now move back in to the same environment They all express totally differently until they're acclimated to that environment again There was so much LA was like the perfect micro cut like to blow up in LA to be worth that much money Yeah, and in a culture that fronts so hard We went from like one cut showing up from these Florida guys Yeah, to like clubs full of only OG within 15 years Yeah, and several dozen OG cuts at least Yeah, so how did that happen? You know is is the flow rider that I have is that a sister to the stuff that Josh brought out is That a sister to TK. Is it the same as the original Josh? Is it I've grown it next to the real TK It's not that one Is it a bag see I you know what I'm saying like it you just don't know But I mean but it goes back to the expression thing like it maybe it is the same exact cut They're just expressing totally differently because they've been moved to two different environments and the hard part is that that's why I do this I don't know if I believe I have a hard time with acclimation Yeah, I do I like to grow things to see what they are side-by-side in the same room same environment same food same everything Uh-huh, you know, I'm not sure that taking it to Hawaii for four years does some kind of genetic change I don't think it does a genetic change, but I think expression is expression and I think that's that's that's for real It's just I'm not saying I'm not just agreeing with people. I'm just saying that like I this is another aspect where we just don't know Yeah, I mean like like for the first thing that really taught me this was cheese This is a clone that I had run out many times and every time I'd run it out. It smelled like funky foot cheese Get it back from a great source. Now. I've got berry and then the next time I grow it I've got one clone berry one clone fruit next to them. They look different and it's like What is this just these little micro expressions and and you know with CSI that was one of the ones that really he pointed out Environmental expression is everything and you just can't make any kind of conclusions based on growing if you if you've gotten the same clone Supposedly from two different sources. You can't make any conclusions about it Then being the same kind of not because of that environmental So that's what I was saying about wanting to grow the same plant in the same room or the same greeny or the same Environment with the same food at the same time Yeah, I think I think that makes sense But over you know a period of a year or two I think it would take for it to reactivate to the so that makes it really hard It makes it fucking way hard and it makes it even more confusing on trying to make any kind of claim on whether something is or isn't something You know and you know, but there are there are when you grow them side by side. It's not like you have to only wait on the flower Yeah, you know, I feel like whoa these leaves are a different color. Yeah, the serrations are looking slight are looking different Yeah, like there's other observational things that you can do, you know, and so I do believe like I actually I actually got I Actually got a chem 91 cut, right? recently Simply because I wanted to grow it right next to mine Yeah, because they've been grown and held and kept separately for a long time. Yeah, but they're the same thing out They're they're they're vaging and I'm growing them next to each other I haven't blown them out yet, but I'm curious is like I can't I know for sure They're the exact same cut and I know who's held it and how long in the whole bit But they've been in completely different environments for a really long time The other thing I'd wonder too is like as one of them been in a place where they use harsh chemicals for a long time of You know many years and stuff like that. Yeah, you know, you know all that stuff environment, you know Like I even wonder sometimes like, you know, sometimes you get you get a weak plant or you have an accident or something And you have to save a plant or you get a plant that's in bad health and you have to nurse it back for a while Because it went through some hell or something You know, how does that change? Can you get it back perfectly healthy? Are there are there the same cuts floating out there of the same plant that are just going to be younger and healthier? Because they didn't get the tar beat out of them It's hard to say You know, I know I know I've had Ogkb and then I've had ogkb from a source that kept it super fucking healthy with Madda Leeds cut Where I'd never seen it express grow as fast or have the Terps that it did but it was definitely the same cut And I'm not even talking about perfect health. Just so people know like I'm not talking about dudding or HP You know or anything like that. I'm just talking about two things that we know are the same that go their own path for a long time Yeah, which one, you know, it's the same cut, but are they all of equal health? Yeah Do they stack the same do they smell the same? Do they look the same was their drip because when it comes to me for drift people say oh genetic drift is real I don't know that it's real. I Don't think it is but I don't know that it's not real I mean, we know what epigenetics is But I don't think we fully understand epigenetics and how they apply to cannabis very well But I think that's what most people refer to I mean I'll say for sure that my LA my headband cut. It's definitely gotten more sensitive inside over the years Yeah, it used, you know 15 years ago. The thing was an indoor beast Yeah But sometimes there's a weird thing where I almost wonder I almost had this thought of like well What if I went back to single-ended Hordilexes? Yeah, right it just turned into a beast again, and it's that we updated the lights and it doesn't like the new lights Yeah You know and you're like, oh back in the day. I grew it and it looked like this Yeah, and then you change a bunch of shit And you're like, oh it doesn't look like that anymore Can't be any of the changes I made. Yeah That would be interesting to know though. So yeah, but then you're like some little guy or whatever, you know So it's like where do you where do you get the opposite? Where do you get to do these different environmental experiments? Yeah, and to see if things are the same cut or the same this or like maybe they don't like the same light Yeah, you know I did this thing. I did this experiment where I grew some head stash under only ceramic metal halides Yeah, right. I mentioned the ship before but the dog shit, which I normally take 12 plus weeks Yeah was done in 10 and I cut the chem 91 down at 85 days and it still had white hairs all over the top I believe it. Yeah, and like was the longest I've ever taken it I normally take it 68 or 70 or something like that, but it was like a full two weeks Longer than I've ever taken it and it still didn't look done. Yeah, and that was just spectrum. I Was all that was the only thing that was different. Yeah Yeah Same room same food same this same hose watering everything same organic inputs all that shit did some stuff not purple, too I didn't actually have any purple stuff in in that in that experiment. I had what I tried to do is I grew some stuff I knew really well like the headband and the chem D and Five or six different things and I grew them under the lights. I was growing the rest of the shit Yeah, and then I grew those same strains in the same room But like in a corner where there was only ceramic metal halides I had set up Yeah, and so the only difference that they were getting was the spectrum of light That's funny, you know came out wave some things didn't come out very different than each other And then a few strains were like way fucking different like I remember telling Caleb that I pulled the the fucking dog shit at ten weeks Yeah, and he laughed at me. So I started sending him pics and Being like don't you think it's done? Yeah, you know, yeah Am I gonna lose you again? I don't know. No delayed. You looked weird for a second. Are you there testing one two three? Yeah, I'm here. Can you hear me? Yeah, he's fucked. We're fucked. Am I fucked now? There's he fucked. I don't know if it's me or you I don't know. I don't know how to tell I can hear you. You can hear me. I think it's me Yeah, it might be you. I don't know I think it's me But yeah, there's so I can think of all these different experiments and Matt's thinking of different experiments, too Right. Yeah, but enacting all of those to eliminate variables is a time-consuming money bitch It's just the hole you're pouring shit into to try to learn more about a plant almost all of my my experiments that I ran over the years were all based around weather or reversals and weather Something to do with purples and plants One of the funny thing was I became obsessed with and convinced that metal metal I must be the way to to get the purples to express the best and much later on I learned that That was probably the most opposite and stupid Bro science theory I could have had because it actually reduces the amount of purples You'll see and that that is conclusive That's inclusive. So yeah, you know we have and I don't think like I've you know I've been posting on my stories the last few days. I'm a friend did some grew out some of my sour You know, yeah, and I wanted people to see it and it started some convos or whatever And I don't really I think the diesels are such a close family That like I don't really think that you can compare them unless you grow them in the same room at the same time Yeah, or the same greenhouse or the same outdoor the same whatever. I don't think like you were talking earlier I don't think you can take two totally different environments and different regiments Yeah, and then put that in the jar and be like is this the same wheat? Yeah, no You know what gives the most perp? genetics Yeah, everything else is just trying to coax the genetics to do what you want. Yeah, but some genetics just give it And it doesn't matter, you know. Yep. It doesn't matter But yeah, even just figuring out all this stuff some of this stuff is some of this stuff is uh, you know It's it's very observational You know, yeah getting back to Phylos Phylos thought every cut of fucking sour diesel they sent in was the exact same cut Yeah, and oh gee and oh gee and at the time I was growing out a bunch of these diesel cuts next to mine and next to the headbands and stuff to try to figure shit out Yeah, they were obviously different related But you know some had light green leaves some had dark green leaves some had different serrations some had different maturity rates Daff to different. Yeah, you all smells all kinds of stuff Yeah, you know all kinds of stuff and so You know dudes asking is that the sour I grew up with I don't know dude I don't know. It would be nice if it somehow ended up with me and I saved it You know, that would be cool. I can say that I haven't lost it in over two decades Yeah, you know That's what I can say about it. You know time will tell I suppose. I mean I even just got Sour from Caleb Yeah, just because I want to grow it next to mine and See just do the side-by-side I'm 99% sure his is the same one that me and Pip and everyone else. I'll use an archive Yeah, the chocolate is that one. Yeah, I'm the one I call Choco mine's not that one Yeah, I know that's so weird You know, but it's like and and so I don't know I don't you know I I thought for the longest time I hopefully called it sour diesel. Yeah, and people will be like Well, what is it? I'm like, it's the sour diesel. Yeah, what name? I don't know I'm no idea and I thought when I gathered up all those sours. I would be able to figure it out Yeah, you know, I'm like, okay. I got ECSD. I got NYC D. I got Joe B. I got Amish I got Choco. I got easy. You know, I got this I got this I got this and it's none of those No You know It's none of those so and then none of them were my LA my headband cut either Yeah, I was figuring at least some the one thing that it did seem it did seem like the Choco and ECSD with the same plan Yeah, yeah, at least the versions of them that I got I was the first person to call it Choco and it was only because I saw Choco's picture and I was like, hey That's fucking that which one which which sour is you running the one that looks like Choco's? That's the one that's the one and it was it was always labeled ECSD always and what's funny Is that it wasn't until like if it wasn't for Matt and Pit and some of our other close friends I probably wouldn't have done that experiment Yeah, because they kept bugging me about what sour I had and I was like The hour it's the one. I don't know. I didn't even know there was so many because I got it so early I just never got another one because I had it So why would I trade for sour diesel when I have a nice sour diesel? And I didn't realize that it was You know that there was so many Did you know it was the fucking Amherst? Did you did you try that one that Amherst? I would say that the Amherst and The upstate New York and the real there's like four or five names Then I don't that Matt can probably verify that I don't I don't think they existed Five or ten years ago. There's a name. There's a lot of there's a ton of new names There's a different amount of there's a certain amount of new names You know that have come out and there was a decent amount of names in the forum era Yeah, you know and I don't know like I just lived in Mendo. I got the sour in 2000 or so We've had it a couple of couple decades now or whatever. I know we didn't lose it and We thought that was sour diesel. I Remember there was an era where almost everyone's sour diesel was so much New York City diesel for a long time in the community 99% of the shit people were turning up with as sour was NYC D great fruit I don't know like, you know, I'm not even dissing Hunter Mountain or this or that or whatever I'm just saying that they weren't names in common usage amongst traded cuts Yeah, you know and you know and so You know and there it seems like there was multiple phenos of sour even to begin with yeah You know and then it became the most trying to trying to declare the one the original the only sour is pretty redundant now that we know I mean pretty Pretty convinced that there were at least two or three sours going around. Yeah, and two or three diesels I should say I can say I can say you know that When I got it and that we've held it since and honestly, you know back then in the early 2000s or whatever like I didn't ask for all that lineage Yeah, I didn't ask of where it came from and how it got there and all that different stuff and like trying to figure that out 15 20 years later is a mess. Yeah, I just got it then You know and I have this thing where it's like if I like weed I'll try to hold on to the weed Yeah, whether or not it becomes popular and what happens to most people is they get rid of anything. That's not popular and Then they try to get it back and it's not the same shit Yeah, and that's why everyone's like, where's the real granddaddy perps? Where's the real this? Where's the real what now? It's like, where's the real sour? Yeah, someone's asking about sour. We have the the sour across the blue bonnet. That's pretty good for a Regular sour seed line not a lot of berry comes through archives got some amazing sour crosses. CSI has got amazing sour crosses And top dogs got amazing sour stuff. So yeah Now that it's gained in popularity There's a bunch more people that are coming out of the woodwork with labeled Sours and they're all old and they're all amazing and they're all this and that and I think skunk VA probably has some too Yeah, that's who I'd recommend because there are so many people coming out of the woodwork You don't know who to trust. There's a bunch. There's a bunch right there People are asking about the Spyrox hour Spyrox hour isn't sour Spyrox hour It's something that's sold through some nurseries out on the west coast here It's not a bad cut, but it's it's some it's some sour cut across the Kush Yeah, because they were going for like sour stretchiness, but like more density You know and all that and so it's some hybrid. It's not an it's not a real sour Someone's asking about skunk text diesel I gave him the day record diesel, but his what he calls the original diesel came from someone else For our last or probably the last time we talked about it. It came for someone else So it's not the day record diesel that he's referring to yeah I mean it came from his buddy It seems like and it yeah and the dude got diesel, you know back on the east coast back when Diesel was slang for fire weed. Yeah, so we're not even sure how it's related or whatever else because he just got it Is I mean the only reason why he calls it original diesel is the guy that gave it to him Is because that's the diesel he got first Yeah, which is that I passed him the day record as original diesel So when I saw him post that and say you got it from that dude I was like what the fuck but it turned out yes He did get a different cut for someone else. Yeah, he did get a different cut and that's the name game You know and it's like that is yeah, you know It's like I mean at some of these things you see people making all kinds of claims about sour diesel I try to stay away from all that because I got my cut in 2000 or so and Which is long as time ago now, but it's still you know, it's still years after it was it was popped Yeah, and I got it on the west coast Yeah, I'm not even old enough to have been around for when sour was first getting popular and being from the west coast It's really it like it's kind of like me, you know, I don't know Me trying to say that I would know what a real sour was or the original sour was this kind of crazy in that I Can I compare all sour diesels to the sour diesel cut I have and not because I I'm like all like all mine's the best or Whatever, but mostly because that's my comparison point. Yeah, that's the sour that I had forever That's what I consider to be sour. So it's like is it the I don't know, you know It's hard to say People are asking about the original diesel in here so archive his original diesel is the shroomy diesel if I remember correctly and The one that we have as original diesel is just the day record. It was because is shroomy diesel the Amish Yes. Yeah, that's same thing shroomy diesel the Amish. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean on this cut and original I ran and then there's day record original and Day record original is my favorite. That's that's it's one of the most potent cuts that I have and potent breeders that I have Yeah, you know, so all I can say is that most people don't keep things Unless it's popular and it's easy to sell Yeah, I hold on to things that I like, you know, so I held on to that sour even when it was really unpopular Yeah, and then people are like, how did the good sour go away? It's because nobody wanted to hold most good cuts go away Because people aren't willing to hold them when they're not popular Yeah, and then everyone wants them back as soon as there's money to be made and there's rep to be had yep Simple as that over and over and over again Yeah, you know, so then so how does that all work? It's like they only want it You could I could spread out my diesel and if no and if in five years Nobody was into sour a tiny percentage of heads would keep it. Yeah, because that's what happened. That's what happened to Urkel That's what happened to green crack. It's what happened to everything. Yeah shit's a lot of shit's gone That I mean, there's another cut the other day Someone hit me up and asked for forum and I was like, what do you mean you want forum? What do you mean forums missing? He's like, I can't find forum and I'm like, we can't find forum That's all that's a horror cut. But yeah, that's funny I see people and I'm not making if anyone's listening and this is you don't take offense But I was like, man, I want that real sour diesel from like back in 2010 Yeah, you know and you think about it and it's like that's not that long ago Yeah, no It turns out You know, we don't know which cuts gun tech sour is Identifying sours is really hard You know, it seems like it seems like at the very least what you can say by people that are trying my sour right now Is that it's not very well circulated. Yeah, and it's not one of the common named cuts Yeah You know, okay, my ring my ring is gonna keep going off non-stop So we could probably try to end it soon. This is driving me nuts. Oh my god Well, we are an hour and 15 minutes in yeah, all right. Yeah, we're doing good. We're doing all right So yeah, I mean we can do we tried to talk a little bro science and stuff like that and ended up on cuts But that's the hardest part for me as a collector is that nobody wants to fucking help me back shit up when shit's unpopular Yeah, and everybody wants it when they can make some money off it And then it goes back to nobody wants to help you back it up because it's unpopular Rinse repeat and it's and we're about to enter the most abundant time of the shit Now you're you know I don't know. I don't know if people can hear me or whatever But Matt and I it seemed to be on different different wavelengths again Yeah, it's like me different slightly different wavelengths Can you hear me anything I can hear you okay? There we go. You just look delayed Yeah, all right Yes, is there anything else you want to cover before we close it up? No, we can close it up this evening I mean we're all good every we kept everybody entertained for an hour and 50 minutes. That's probably pretty good but You know there yeah, there's a there's a thing where we are gonna try to get the podcast up on Podcast format so more people can listen and hear them You know everybody know you can listen to this you can watch the live feed It won't have the comments But you can always go back and listen to the live feed on the riot seeds Instagram under the video section all this you can replay I always leave these ones up with me and not so always up I have one of them that I did when I covered when Matt wasn't able to make it But I don't have a bunch of them up on my page. I do have one of them Oh that that's good to know so if anybody is really good at audio extraction and stuff like that We need someone to help with that and we'll see if we can get the audio ones back up Please go check out the patreon we go shoot the shit all the time on the discord that's where I do most of our dirty work is on the discord and talk and nerd out and Felaid each other other than that. I'm gonna write seed code calm. We have a bunch of stuff up I have a bunch of new packs to add in It's the sites down right now, but it should be back up very soon. Yeah, I think that's it That's it so everyone have a great night. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next week you