 All right guys today I have a special guest his name is Michelle Falcon He's an entrepreneur advisor author an international keynote speaker who leverages customer experience employee engagement and company culture Strategies to grow businesses as an entrepreneur Michelle has grown a hospitality company with over a hundred employees and tens of millions in yearly revenue Plus, I really want to talk about his new book, you know people first over here fantastic book ready last night Michelle Welcome to show brother. What's up, man? Thank you for having me. Hey, man. Thanks for coming down quite the setup here, man This is pro. I know you gotta thank the team here behind. Thank you team, you know, this is this is legit It's legit. I could stay here for a bit. No doubt man. Let's chop it up. I got time. All right, cool first question Why this I In 2018 was asked a question when I was keynote speaking From an audience member and the gentleman asked me Why is it so many companies talk about delivering great experiences to customers and employees, but so few companies actually do it? Hmm. I was like, wow, that's a loaded question not one that I can't answer. I was like, how much time do you have? so I gave him the short version and He liked the answer seemed like the audience was vibing with the answer as well too and Then it got me thinking I was like I could probably expand On this and and make it into a book a book is something I'd always wanted to write, but I'm not a Literary genius by any means It takes a lot of effort for me to write But I knew that there was a book based on that question that gentleman asked me I linked up with a company called scribe media. Mm-hmm. They helped me read the book and I wanted to answer that question in depth Why is it that most companies fall short of being admired by customers and employees and doing good by them? while also maintaining a healthy bottom line and Why do some succeed? So I worked with scribe media put the book together Took several months But they were able to get it out of me and so far the response has been really solid I'm happy with it and You know truth be told like I Don't make a lot of money from the book Unless you're like a Simon cynic type author. You're not really making money off the book For me it was Not sent you fluffy But like kind of a proud moment first person in my family to write a book actually part of me second person my grandfather wrote a book Not related to business at all There's that made my mom happy Serves as a great business card It allows me to speak like all over the world So that's kind of how the book came together why it came together And you know still pushing it happy with the message and it seems like audiences like it Why don't we kind of rewind back and tell the audience? What was a process you did because I know a lot of it a lot of this in your book over here is from the experience of your life What was a process and maybe key points you can talk about? that You learned or key things you learned in in your in your experience of building your company Yeah, like in 2020 hindsight looking back There's a lot of things I'll narrow in on a few that I think listeners Might jive with or might be surprising to them I think there are three key reasons why a company will fully commit To building a company that's admired by customers employees and communities and why Some don't deliver great experiences to anybody Yeah, and it really boils down to the leadership of the organization and those three reasons are one Where do you go to? Learn about how to build these type of companies Business school isn't teaching it well based on my experience in understanding the curriculum in traditional business school Company culture employee experience customer experience are relatively new topics, right? This isn't PR or Digital marketing, right? So there's an absence of education that companies are going to need to Overcome and find that education The second reason why a leader might not be able to build this type of company is Because of short-term and long-term thinking If you're gonna build a company that delivers great experiences to people You can't be asking yourself. What is the ROI of me doing this? Yeah, right like you know the best analogy that I can use that I share in the book is if I Had my mother fly in To Toronto from Vancouver and I'm driving down the highway Going to pick her up at Pearson Airport in Toronto Do you think I would be asking myself? What is the ROI of doing this? You know like how much gas is this cost? Psychotic But why is it that we still ask those questions? When building systems or processes or delivering experiences to anybody that interacts with our brand? Often when we invest in something we're thinking on the short term because we've been trained to do so When you buy Facebook ads That ROI could show up the very next day or PPC or whatever type of campaign that you're you're working on When it comes to building relationships with people you can't be asking yourself What is the ROI or what it's gonna happen? Just do it for sake of doing it and knowing that you're gonna build a great company along the way and the third reason is Having the ability to care about a stranger Hmm Your customers your employees your community at one point They're gonna be new to you and to be able to authentically deliver good experience and care about somebody that you don't know It takes a certain level of DNA to be able to you have Examples for us to share like what have you done in the past and that scenario with that complete stranger I Yeah, I do this story was gonna be Produced sorry The Toronto Guardian was gonna write about this, but then I retracted the story because I was like, you know what? I don't actually want people to really know but no, I'll share it with you now I got a call from our one of our head hostess is Celeste and she said hey Michelle. I just Booked a reservation for a woman that is having dinner with her husband And she's celebrating his 40th birthday or something like that I said, okay. I want to do something nice for them. She's like, yeah, we're gonna do some days for them But she shared a story with me that Kind of moved me and I think we have an opportunity to do something good She said the story while she was booking the reservation with this woman on the phone They started kind of going back and forth with just everyday dialogue And the woman I'm paraphrasing but the woman said, you know, it's been a really tough couple weeks for me and my husband We're looking forward to hosting his party and Celeste was like what happened What's happening and the woman said our son is about to have like life saving saving surgery at Sick Kids Hospital and That's been really trying for us and you know hotels are so expensive. We want to stay we live I believe they lived in Brampton Which is one hour outside of Toronto and Sick Kids Hospital, which is downtown Toronto Hotels are really expensive and so are Airbnb's so Celeste was like Michelle. Do you think we could? pay for their hotel to stay The three days that the Sun is having his operation like for that period of time and I said You know in my head. I was like that's gonna really eat interoperating budget, but I was like, you know what? Let me call you right back And I called I talked to Sophia my girlfriend. I said hey You're the biggest enabler of my career and my crazy ideas, right? She said I am I said Would you mind if we stayed at your parents' house for three days? I want to welcome this stranger and her husband into our home and let them stay here's the story So if he was like, let's do it like Sophia like Just as a side note like I said, she's the biggest enabler of my career Anything I said and if I asked her to do she'd be like, I'm for my fort. Let's do it, right? So I'm thankful for us. I would give her a little shout out there, but That's something that we did these complete strangers stayed in our condo for three days So Sophia and I made sure that they could Use all of our kitchen supplies because the mother wanted to cook meals for her son Who was again just what have this life-saving surgery and thankfully everything worked out But you know, we said hey help yourself. Here's how to use our Netflix here starts with Netflix login Here's our kitchen supplies. Like do you use use our Tupperware like? So, you know, I would like to think that that's something special and unique about my operating ability Or just who I am as a person forget about the business out of it It's like look if you called me and said hey homie I need a place close to st. Lawrence market where I live. Do you mind if I stay a place? Hey, Sophia do my done. Let's go. All right So those are just some of the things that like I'm willing to do for Strangers and you know, some people find it weird I find it normal and I wouldn't change any anything about that. What do you say? You're always like this or this is something Yeah, okay man, if you met my parents like I'll tell you a story. I Was interviewed by or part of me Interviewed the CEO of one 800 God junk. Okay, my former company that I worked for and I was my early 20s That was my MBA equivalent was Cameron. So they're when you were there or Cameron's Cameron Harold the COO His last day was my very first day and I'll tell you let me make sure I come back to the story of but I Remember being in that I my first role at the company was in the call center Mmm, and I we're in a training room learning how to use the like operating system like software and everything to book appointments And I remember our trainer saying hey everybody needs to come into the huddle room It's where they had their kind of stand-up huddles and meetings we have like there's a special announcement happening and I go in there first day and Cameron is giving us a speech about how this is his last day and I had just left business school to go Work for one 800 God junk is a constant urgent a big gamble like my parents like Michelle What are you doing stay in business school? I was like no trust me. I didn't need to go learn from this company I joined this company on day one. I see the COO of the company resigning and crying I'm like what the hell have I done it, but it all worked out for the best back to the Brian Scudamore story I interviewed him and Toward the interview I thanked him and I said thank you for building the company that allowed me to be successful today And he said on camera. He said Michelle. You have to stop thanking me for that And he's like the people that you should really think of your parents because they're the people that gave you the DNA to actually do any of this and I was like like That was heavy. That was a paradigm shift. I'm as soon as I got out of the building from hosting an interview with him called Mom and dad was like, you know what like Thank you like I don't think I've ever really thanked you for helping my career in a way that I didn't even think they impacted I didn't know that they impacted like that But like I just believe in building relationships with people man Am I gonna get burned along the way is somebody gonna take advantage of my kindness a hundred percent? It'll probably happen next week or the week after that and it will happen for years to come But that's not gonna change the way that I operate burn me if you want shame on you man What was a cat like well, we're gonna go back even a little bit further. I like to keep on subtracting care Out of all industries in the fucking world You know what I mean such a cliche what was a What was that thing is like fuck it man? I'm going into this so hospitality It's not like I worked in hospitality as like a server in college I think you know, everybody's had kind of their like time in hospitality In the 10th grade my dad filed for bankruptcy. It was a very hard time For our family very very hard like seeing a grown man your hero cry like because of financial stress is tough And the reason he filed for bankruptcy is because he was on the short end of the a bad deal He got screwed over by somebody who thought he thought he was his friend and it happened to be in the restaurant my father owned a restaurant in West Vancouver and I I Never imagined myself getting into hospitality In 2016 my friend Brandon. Who's my partner today? Called me. I was living in Vancouver at the time and he said hey You know, we had always wanted to work together and he said come and help us Build this huge venue like four floors 16,000 square feet Tens of thousands of customers hundred employees from day one tens of you know over ten million dollars a year in sales Is what we're projecting for year one. I was like wow, this sounds like a challenge. Hmm. I thought I was only gonna Quote-unquote move to Toronto for three months three months turn to six months six months turn to die I guess I live in Toronto now because they were like do you want to be a partner? And since then we had opened another venue as well too, which is challenging as well I never set out to come into this industry But once I started kind of sticking my nose in it and looking around is like there's a lot that has been done incorrectly that could be fixed a Lot of people were like Back home in Vancouver like you're gonna get into restaurants like what the hell well you you mentioned something here a lot of things Are being done incorrectly Interviewing like that's one point and I know that's one of the topics that I love talking about like a Lot of companies are like Very transactional with the way that they interview I like to take the approach of To interviewing as you would like who are you going to maybe marry one day? Who's gonna be a friend of yours that you're gonna invite into a wedding or who's gonna come to your? Your birthday party. You're not just gonna invite anybody, right? And you have to be selective you have to have a criteria like when You know a woman is deciding who is she what type of man does she want to marry, you know tall nice teeth like Thankfully Sophia doesn't care about either of those things but But like, you know, there's a criteria sure Why can't we have that same criteria when it comes to hiring like what? You know with no disrespect to my partners, you know the way that they're hiring is very transactional and just kind of very like Lacks the day's a call if you will and I was like well you can fix that. Hmm. What about our learning development? Like how we're Wanting our team members to deliver great experiences to customers, but we're delivering them a poor training experience No wonder that they're not succeeding. We're having set them up for success um so It was it was challenging. It was very challenging and that's what makes helps me thrive as a professional is Being faced with a big challenge and be like, okay. What tools do I have to overcome these challenges? So that's how I got into hospitality. I never dreamt about it. I never had a Long tenure in hospitality. It was just like hey, you want to do this? I said sure. Let's do it Here I am today interesting kind of similar to how Toby from Shopify fell into his I listen to the how I built this Yeah, I've listened to it three times I have this habit with listening to podcasts like multiple times because I like to listen to once and Then I like to dissect it like every like 15 minute increment and like kind of study what they've said But to your point that was an awesome podcast He's actually somebody that I don't know him personally, but just the way he carries himself. Yes Right. Just unassuming just humble man. Yeah Yeah, man, just accent adds to it as well, too. Like the like ability that actually gets me. I really enjoy it so you mentioned a Learning or upscaling or educating your staff employees How does that process look like for you guys? It's module base. Okay, so it's very labor-intensive It costs a lot of money and effort and everybody in the whole organization is doing that Yeah, so the the theory behind the training is let I'll give you a real world example We train on the three common customer personality types something that I had Created invented coined whatever you want to call it And I think that there are three common personality types There is the director style personality, which is somebody who doesn't want chitchat Don't talk to them about the Raptors or any sports teams. They just mean business They know what they want when they want to keep the conversations short product knowledge matters to them There's a socializer. That's a person that's going to talk to you about why the sky is blue What their dog's name is and you need to engage them in the topic conversations are also going to feel Like like you were rude if you don't yeah, and the third is the passive If you've ever asked somebody how's your day going and they respond with good and Nothing else like most human beings would be and how's your day going? That's the passive. They're guarded their timid a bit You would think that that training material is reserved for hostesses our tenders sales people right frontline individuals but my argument is Why shouldn't your finance team take that information and absorb that education as well too because after all Your finance team, whether it's a bookkeeper or director or controller. They also interact with people that touch your brand Your investors your bank representatives, maybe your insurance people So any type of Customer-centric or people-centric learning and education that we have My expectation is that the entire company goes through it everyone on payroll Because how can you truly be an authentic brand that delivers great experiences to everyone? If everyone doesn't have the same education Going you know building off of that training doesn't ever stop Like learning development doesn't stop You know LeBron James didn't stop Practicing after you made the NBA right your highest performer Beyonce doesn't stop Her vocal training just because she's won X many Grammys One thing that I read Howard Schultz The former CEO of Starbucks say and I'm totally paraphrasing But he said People think Starbucks is a great marketing company But we don't really advertise at all What the typical company would spend on advertising we spend on learning development and training and that's our marketing Hmm, and that's the same way. I want to grow our business and any business that I build from this day on forward For a number of reasons One it's it just makes sense to ensure that your team members have the education to deliver great experiences the motivation Do you guys you guys built out your own modules for this? Yeah? Yeah, it's all my okay It's all my content related to so is this given in real person or I'm going online in like so today It's in-person the vision for it would be a combination of in-person and digital learning as well, too I don't like the idea of all training being digitalized. I think That only serves a certain small learning style. I agree, right? I like the human interaction Especially human business like this 100% it's such a high-touch business. Yeah, right. I don't you know Sometimes people build learning development programs and they build it for what makes sense to them Hmm, but you have to think like a mirror probably learns different than Michelle does like Michelle needs to see somebody do something Yeah, right like I have a hard time watching YouTube videos So feel like just watch a YouTube video how to do that. I'm like I can't like I need I need to walk You know wire differently. I am right and it doesn't make me smarter or less intelligent. It's just how I want to learn, right? but it's It's it's something that I Kind of marvel at when companies are like we you know, we believe in employee experience and customer experience I'm like, okay. That's awesome. Well, like how much do you spend on marketing per year? X? How much do you spend on learning development? X minus like 75% of that. Hmm, right? Like I'm like, do you though? Do you really believe in it because you're peon because your budgeting tells me otherwise? Yes How did your partners take that when you brought in all these new changes because that would have been interesting, right? Okay, Brandon my partner was like, you know Respect to him. He gave me a clear runway. Hmm and just said go and he didn't Just let me do anything right. I would always collaborate with him, but like he he had my back My other partners, I I think maybe they were cynical Like this guy has no restaurant experience What the hell is he talking about? And I you know, I was kind of like just trust me. I know I'm a stranger to you right now Which is trust me I wouldn't put my name next to something if I didn't feel like it was gonna be successful But I think they were a bit kind of skeptical at first This was new changes new. Where's your changes difficult for some people? Right? Of course it is especially when it costs money. Yeah, right? But I would like to believe that my partners would join me and say it was for the best and that everything worked out and Whether bumps and bruises along the way of course, right? We had tremendous growth like in less than two years We went from zero to fifteen million dollars a year in revenue zero to a hundred and fifteen employees like it was hard, man like before hospitality I was doing work with like Alfa Romeo Blue Cross Blue Shield Verizon wireless like multi multi multi billion dollar companies working on Challenging projects But I can you know truth be told Building this these venues with my partners was much more difficult and challenging Then the work I had done in my consulting consulting times not because of any like self sabotage or anything It's just like it was hard work like we had to hire a hundred people before we opened up the first venue And my interview process was not easy. It's not like we were hiring. Oh when they called you that nobody hired No, oh, they had maybe they had maybe no they probably had about like 10 or 15 okay, okay carried over from the restaurant that they had before yeah, I Think that's Ronald Bates first, right? That's right. Yeah, so We and it wasn't like we were hiring every second person we met right like the interview process It's hard to get through it. Hmm, right, so I would estimate that we were hiring like one out of every like eight people we met like it was not Like just because you showed up on time for the interview you got this is this is cooks This is bartenders and wait dishwasher dishwasher manager is to man security. You name it. Yeah, it's it it was a Wide variety of people Like it wasn't just like a one system for one role. Mm-hmm It was it was tough man. It was good. We made it. I'm happy we guys are thriving Yeah, you know the city likes our venues. Yeah, my partners are going are building two more venues in the coming 30 days they're opening up two more venues in Toronto downtown downtown same themed idea. Oh, one's a nightclub and one's a large scale Chinese concept okay with the missile Michelin stars. I'm not involved in this. Yeah, we don't fucking mission stars in Canada I know get it like well. He's I don't the closest the one on a spadina. They're trying to get it. What's it called? Oh, I'm there next week Oh, yeah, I haven't been there yet. I know I'll tell you I'm there next week Yeah, there's a conspiracy. They don't want to give mission stars to you to Canadians. I don't know I read some stuff I'm like you're telling me there's no mission to start restaurants from coast to coast You know what truth like honestly, I don't even dig Michelin. Yeah My okay, maybe cuz I'm South American sure the way that I was fed Yeah, child is as much food to the brim of the plate sure like three inches high I know I know I know I don't appreciate the delicacy of two biters. I hear you. I hear you It's just not for me. Yeah, I like a big like I remember being fed by my dad It's like that was like a bucket of fuck. Yeah, just just Until you uncomfortable. I have a I have a project a Side project I want to do just for shits and giggles when I'm older It's a restaurant actually it's gonna make no money. I don't want it to make any money. It's called your mom's cooking Well, it's like a living room where I have a retired mom that comes in and cooks her like home meals I like that and we just chill on the couch on the dining table and just eat her food I like and it's like ten people 15 demi ten fifth. That's it max tiny thing. So I can try just like home cooking mom's food Help me in yeah, man. You know who are the greatest people in the world some of the greatest people in the world are Italian known us. Yeah, they're like making the from scratch from scratch. Yeah like, you know The next President of the US should be an Italian know that just let her do her thing Managed she's raised a bunch of kids, you know fed them well. Yeah, put some they don't get some in line Some of them are crazy. Yeah, I have some I once dated an Italian girl and her known it was nuts Lovely, but nuts So I'm answering this man. Have you seen has it industry changed a lot in the last like five to six years? It's trying to trying to it. It's trying to okay Regardless of hospitality, I think every industry is now starting to see like hmm Profits can't come first. Yeah, they are very important and they are expected every quarter Mm-hmm. How we go about earning them needs to change a bit. Jamie diamond this very prominent New York based finance. I know Jamie Diane. Yeah, he's from JP Morgan's morning CEO. He's a big dog. Yeah, okay Again, I'm paraphrasing but he said Companies need to operate differently now. You need to put your customer first your community's first and then figure out the profit thing You know in theory that sounds awesome How many and you know, I think Bezos and people like that also said this like supported the message. I Think companies want to change. I think industries want to change. Yeah, especially banks man. Oh god I have a fucking hatred towards them. I went to the bank the other day and They reached out to me to have a meeting. I guess they saw things that they liked with my account or whatever And I was like, okay, I'm gonna entertain them. I grew up South American I grew up poor where did you grow up and thank Hoover? Okay, but my parents are proving I'll prove any up and I was taught debt was bad. Mm-hmm. All right, so I keep the bank with an arms reach and And You know, they sat me down. They did a song and dance like, you know, there's this investment opportunity or vehicle And then I said I asked let him do his thing. I was hearing him And I was like, can I speak freely? He said, of course. I said, I don't trust you you Don't reach out to me You see something going on with my account that you liked and now you want to build a relationship with me Mm-hmm, and I get why you have to you have to pay your numbers. There's commission base to make do yeah I'm sure I was like the reason that I don't trust you is because what if something bad happened to me? What if I lost all my money tomorrow and couldn't make my minimum payments? Relationship would change You wouldn't be doing this song and dance right now. Yeah, I was like, that's why I don't trust you And I was like, I'm not saying this to you the individual Brad. Mm-hmm. Just mean your industry. Mm-hmm so that's why I Don't want to have a relationship on your terms How do you do? How do you respond to that man? You could just tell you could I could see of like he froze Yeah, and you could almost like visually see him be like how like what did they teach me in training? How do I do? Yeah, exactly But back to the industry part the mind the hospitality industry does want to change right you do have some Some forward some leaders of the industry like Danny Myers of Shake Shack and the Unisquire hospitality But you have to think not too long ago Gordon Ramsey was a celebrated individual in the industry. Yeah, and what was he known for he was known for being an asshole Like yelling at people till you to get the best out of them like give me a break man That's not the way that you lead people. I like to be benevolent and I like to be a servant leader and Look like I lead with kindness But if you're not hitting your numbers Week after week month after month, okay, the conversation is gonna be a little different. I'm not gonna be so friendly I'm not ever gonna belittle your pure rate you to make you feel small But you know what different side will come out to me. Who's responsible like people are wondering within the Industry, so you have would it be managers responsible for their certain team to hit numbers or Like who's who's who's who's really collective effort? Yeah Ultimately the GM is responsible for hitting the numbers. So for example, let's say in numbers will be top line revenue top line Manpower. Yeah, right. You're gonna manage those controllables and your expense your fixed and variable expenses But let's say it's Thursday We're trending toward not hitting our revenue numbers for the week Well, the GM's got to pick up on that and be like, hey guys You need to be so you need to be slinging but a double vodka sodas for the next 72 hours to get those numbers Yeah, or you know managing our cogs managing our suppliers and how much we're spending with them Because it's a body count game more bodies you come in there you would think you'd think you would think yeah, okay So we have a little nightclub on the second floor of of our flagship and yeah, I checked it out last time Yeah, so When we are close to capacity We don't sell as much as if we are have more space in the room Okay, because if you think about it if your shoulder to shoulder. Yeah It's harder to make your way to the bar. This is true Right, so there's not enough space to be able to move freely around the room. Yeah, if your shoulder to shoulder That's not a good vibe. You're gonna leave. Yeah, it's not good. Yeah, right crowded man Exactly, and then you order your drink and then you finish it. You're like, oh, yeah I gotta wait another 20 minutes. So I hated that whole fucking dance. Look, I hate nightclubs. Yeah There's a catch 20 I know Maybe that's what that that's me if you hate nightclubs that you hate you just look at I was like, okay How do I optimize this and make it the best experience? That's exactly that's exactly what I'm trying to do at least right like I'm You know I was telling you before we jumped on this podcast like me and my girlfriend celebrated going to bed at 8 30 last night Right, that's a measure. Yeah, man. Fuck you. I'm not I'm not I Extraordinarily social like I like to socialize before 9 p.m. Yeah, I'm thankful. I have a partner named Maddie who Takes care of that part of the business and he does a such an amazing job. I could not do what he does He just went through I think 14 straight days of going out and entertaining people because a tiff Oh my god, I went out for three straight days and immediately got sick and he laughed at me He's like, well, you're not cut out for this industry. I'm like not that part of it. Yeah, but He does a fantastic job. He's you know, he's I call it a politician. He's really good at shaking hands kissing babies And we as a group we all come together Exceptionally because we each have our role and we we you know say in our lanes and do good work and um I I like the work that we've done. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of us and are you Are you gonna be continuing with them on these other projects or I'm not okay? I'm not Because I know you're focusing a lot on this right now. I see yeah A lot man. I see that yeah probably had a hundred and fifty or more hundred fifty thousand kilometers in the air this year Which isn't like a badge of honor, right? He means but you know, if the check's big enough, I'll go anywhere I'm up to something else. Okay Incognito for now and then come a little bit of it. Yeah, I'll be prepared to announce the next month Oh, yeah, good. I would love to tell you right now, man But my girlfriend my girlfriend's always like you're the worst at keeping your own secrets If you told me something, I'll take it to my grave. Yeah, but my own own secrets I'm a little child that can't keep his mouth shut. Sure. Um, it's still in the food space. Okay It has to do with proven food. Okay, leave it at that On this podcast and announce what's going on, but I'm very much looking forward to it If you thought what I did with my partners in hospitality was challenging Probably say this will be a be even more challenging than that. I'm excited for that. I'm excited too, man I My partners and I have done great work and they're gonna Crush it in this city. I know what they're up to and I'm I'm super proud and super jacked up for them and You know, I'm kind of just going on a different path and you're still gonna be You're still be connected with with them currently or we're figuring that out. Okay. Yeah, we're figuring that out I'm always gonna be you know before I was their business partner. I was their friend, right and that matters to me course you know if I moved Out of the country and they called me and said hey, we're having a little trouble with our customer experience I'd be on a flight right away. Mm-hmm to support them right because they're my friends before they're my business partners I'll never forget that. Mm-hmm. I'll never forget that they gave me an opportunity to come to the city and do this work I met my girlfriend who you know All signs point to we're gonna be getting married one day because I moved to the city, right? So that kind of goes to The way that I operate as well, too, it's kind of like a handshake agreement. Yeah, I made I made you guys a promise, right? And that's there's no expiration on that And I think that aligns with just having integrity Right, man, you know, it's sometimes you're like damn it. I did say that Can't go against my word, right? I'm like owning up to fucking fault I seem like people playing such victim hood fucking cards these days. Yeah, yeah I don't maybe them in babysit too much or like the point fingers. Yeah, that's why I like one of my fifth fifth place trophies You know, you know, I like what the Jocko Wilkin You know his book extreme ownership. It's like common sense man. It's like Own it like yo, I fucked up. Yeah, I'm here to fix it like fuck. Okay, you know what's for me What would be more awkward than having that tough conversation is letting yourself go a couple months and living with that On your conscience, but you know what the fucked up thing is some people can just like it didn't happen Yeah, that's narcissism sociopath sociopaths. Pardon me. That's a sociopath doesn't register. No, I know Like sometimes I've almost like I wish I had a little bit of that because I think things Really sit with me. Yeah, and I'm like, oh and it weighs on my conscience and You know, sometimes I was like, I wish I just didn't give a fuck But I do it's complicated man, it's like the genes you have Raise where you're raised when you're raised All these variables, you know, I said man, like for a sociopath you would view it like Okay, just say you're outside and you're viewing it from like a Passer a passenger, right? You're watching like an opera and from like your own morals and ethics You'd be like, oh that person's doing bad I always tell people you really believe people wake up in the morning said I'm gonna do bad No, no one believes they're fucking bad or evil. Everyone believes they're good This side that side up everybody is doing good So you can't like fault people for their like default behavior. It's just a fact. That's it Just take it out take it as face value. Keep them with don't digest it anymore Don't kind of like stare at it with a fucking magnifying glass like it is what it is, man That's the information you have and just deal with it Yeah, you know people try to make like too much of certain situations. It's like I hear you It's like one of my favorite thinkers is or was Krishna Murthy. Who's that? Interesting story Google Krishna Murthy afterwards like I'm gonna go down that very simple very similar to like Jungian psychology You know similar to like Nietzsche Schopenhauer and lots of similar to like Joseph Campbell Even like modern day stuff like what Jordan Peterson talks about it's like At the like he has a he has a very interesting comment Somebody asked him in the crowd is like well, what do you think about homosexuality is like what am I supposed to think? What's there to even think about? It's like, okay It's something it's a yeah, there's nothing to think right It's like same thing with heterosexuality. What is there to think about? What am I thinking? This is just you're doing what you're doing. There's no there's no digging into it. There's no like, oh, well I'm gonna put a label. It is what it is. That's that's what it is Now people try to label things too much like everything's a label. Hey, you know, it's like all your diss I mean really that's it like I'm that you know like fuck man There's a good Vedic saying if you label me negate me because as soon as you label me You put me in this like dimensional box. I like that. All right. It's like I'm only this box Right. I'm only dissing nothing else. Right, right, right. I mean It's like get the fuck out of here. That's interesting. You know when I started this By the way, the third guest on this you know, the new me or proof show and that's right, brother They're like, oh, you're gonna do just crypto. I'm like get the fuck out of here Only crypto you think that's what I care about right I gotta do whatever the hell I want to do whenever I want to do How I want to do it? I think people like have a There's two things with labels, you know, we're going off subject here, but Labels give people Empowerment and it's because people respect labels. They don't respect people like when you go to When you go to court and you're looking at the magistrate or the judge, you're not respecting the person Respecting the judge the crown the label. Yeah, that's the myth not the person You know like Michelle Falcon Esquire you cover the Esquire part. All right, or doctor. We respect you selecting the title doctor Or all people say I'm an entrepreneur like that's your identity only. I'm a fucking entrepreneur. I'm like, you know or like One of my old school friends like he's like really always like 75. He's like, that's all we had That's our only option we had back in the day. Mm-hmm. What's this fucking entrepreneur thing? Like if I didn't work for myself, you know what I'd have nothing on the table, right? It is this this concept of entrepreneurs like brand new and it's a do or die back in the day It's like if I didn't you know, have my farm and do blacksmithing and all this shit like I'm just dead. Yeah, you know what I mean? Survival right so it's fascinating then Very fascinating I'm gonna ask you this question After writing this. Yeah, you know after writing this What would you say is a biggest takeaway because there's one thing to have information in your head work with somebody dump it It's second once you actually see it read it and Then be like oh shit. I didn't really really realize that like did you take any did you get any takeaways after writing this? Yeah, human behaviors this is funny You can say that a million times. Yeah a lot of it's unpredictable. It's like People will read the book Send me emails Tweets, whatever say I really really liked it. I really liked this section and I make note of people that reach out to me and Then I'll mark my calendar and say I'm gonna follow up with them in three months Hmm, and then when that three months comes my gmail reminds me I'll follow up and say hey, how's it how's it going? Did you change your interview process yet? No not yet not yet Yeah, what's up? Why? Oh? It's just you know, it's whatever sure the reasons you are endless and This is why you can never change human behavior It's almost why consulting is weird to me it's like Our advisory mm-hmm like consulting is actually the way that I define the two is and I used to do a lot more consulting than I do today And I do nearly zero advisory, but consultings like we're gonna do it for you Advisors like I'm gonna coach you on how to do it, right? With consulting, you know, it's quite labor-intensive the advisory I Can tell them what to do until I'm blue in the face, but ultimately it's them that have to do it so I have I have found it interesting that People want to change but for one reason or another that they don't They they're like Michelle this books really resonates with me. This is the way I want to operate this way They want to lead my team But then they also they always default to what they were doing for the past It's something called a hedonic treadmill. What's it called hedonic treadmill? Donic treadmill hamster wheel, okay of happiness. Would you say that then? There is your life Didn't graduate university graduate fucking high school you didn't kick that on great knife, brother I guess I get the fuck out of here. Hey, I can't stand school. I hated it every second of it I'd be out of the past elementary school They said I was at 80d almost put me on riddle and thank God my mom like had a common sense Fucking kid on a riddle in is riddle in the one that helps you concentrate. Yeah. Yeah, like Adderall type of deal, right? There's one company I advise And it's the only company I retained so I used to do a lot of advisory before 2016 when I moved to Toronto, but there's one that I've retained and it's a dental practice, okay, ashua Ashua ashua, okay, that's six seven million dollars. Yeah business and the reason I kept them Was because if I thought hospitality was hard. Yeah, the industry's even harder Oh, God, it's almost like I like cutting myself sure like like the challenge. Yeah, it's But the apple of my mouth in the face but So I advise them But they genuinely want to change so when I you know Give them some advice yes share feedback and what they should do I help them come to their own answers But then they execute it and for me that's so rewarding and fulfilling But that's a rare breed man. They hear something execute it We're it is it really is look at the Tony Robbins crowd everyone goes. Yay Tony. Yeah, like they don't do anything after It's a dopamine high man. It's like hairless. Oh, I'm motivation. I Went to a 20-year-old event. I think when I was 19 Yeah, it was like I went to like a rave and did a bunch of ecstasy Insane, man. Yeah, it really is. I was on a high for like six hours and then it dissipated and then I went back Yeah, tried and true 19-year-old weed smoking me. Yeah, just want to hit his bong Yeah, so it is interesting like how some people will take that information run with it and create change and Other people are just left with an expense and 95. I see the 99% I would be curious to know what those numbers are I'm reading a really good book right now and the name of the author. It's escaping me, but it's called the title of the book It's quite simple grit GRIT. Okay. I like that word. I do too and I was listening to a podcast Emily Weiss the founder of Glossier. I think I'm saying that properly the makeup company and she had was on how I built this and Said it was a book that she really liked. So I read it and Essentially it dives deep in the psychology of why people get things done and others just give up And I know that topic might sound super general but like the author really uses, you know, science that is believable and and easy to understand in layman's terms I'm halfway through and I really like it and I'm looking forward to finishing the other half I buy a lot of books. I read very few. I have a lot of books in my office But grits one that I intend on finishing. I do audible a lot and Then I'll find out that author has been on a podcast and then listen to that. Okay So you won't finish the auto the pens man I'm I take it approach. So a lot of my reading or my behavior to reading So you said earlier today people absorb information differently. So if you look at like neuro linguistic programming, you have people who are very Like I'm out of the tactic. I learned by myself. I can't learn through a teacher I want to down right? I have to absorb stuff by myself. But for me, I'm over. I'm very tactile. I have to write it down like when I read a book I'll rip out pages. I'll Circle things around and so there's a there's a really good book I recommend to people called how to read a book by Mortimer Adler printed in 1934, okay? Men and analysis of understanding the art of reading, right? And then People view reading as transactional meetings. They go, okay, I have to read every word. It's not it's a relationship Do what you want with the book you want to want to start in the middle of the book Sure, I want to rip out one page if I just want to start it's fucking study chapter 11 first page of economics It's all gonna study. So it's more of a like What's your relationship to this book? So how it starts is like, okay, you got Michelle here Who's fucking Michelle? Why the fuck did Michelle spend his whole time to writing this? That's more important than the actual book Right, so then you have to understand his point of view, you know He spent all this time years of experience now trying to digest it So you have to understand, okay, how's where's he coming through at this next thing you go You can go like table contents like, okay, how do you think? How's his book designed? You know, where do I want to start? Maybe some things I don't care about like first thing that jumped into me was a hiring thing Got it because I'm always hiring. I'm like, I don't give a shit about anything Yeah, you know, I mean like hiring, you know, I mean like that's what I care about, right? so I view I view like that and I think Yeah, just combination like I really recommend how to read a book and then like I Sometimes I'll have the book of the author The audible and podcasts going at the same time. Yeah. Oh my god different sections on reading it That sounds awful to me for me. I absorb it because for me it's not all like people like oh, I read like 10 books I'm gonna fuck. I care about right like, you know what things we can do that There's some people online Like I read a book a day or there's like the statistic I saw on Twitter like the top CEOs in America read 60 books a year Yeah, right like what like really like defined reading. Yeah, who's believing this stuff? Also, it's like any okay, so you know somebody that reads 60 books a year. No Now I don't think so either I related to AI so people are like Wow, we got this AI and all this stuff, right? And the reason I'm relating it to AI and reading like 64 books is like, okay We got all this data in the fucking cloud over there. We didn't know We didn't know what the data is about. We don't know shit. It's just data sitting in the cloud, right? Same thing like reading 64 books like so what it's random data. I have what am I doing with this fucking data? Yeah, oh cool or it's so what? It's more it's like it's like what's one action item is like oh like for example this the hiring That's an action item. Yeah, I can fucking do it later that I can use and that's a good point because one before I started reading the grip book that kind of it was clean Shortly before I heard the recommendation to read that book I was like I I want to increase my perseverance Um, and then serendipitous the Alice in that podcast, which is you know, I respect the person recommended it Um, and this book seems like it's right at my alley. So there was a desired outcome I was that was the education that I was seeking whereas if you're like, I'm just gonna read 60 books When like well, man, like what path are you going like why? Yeah, is it for the knowledge? Yeah But what are you what are you gonna do anything with knowledge overrated? Knowledge I I know a lot of knowledgeable people. They're fucking dumb Knowledgeable that was the other day. I was in a room with nine people and I uh this entrepreneur was like You put a thousand people in the room in a room one person's smart And I like look around I'm like, yo man, you're in a room of nine people Which one of us is the dumb one or are we all done? Yeah, yeah You know, he's like, oh, I don't mean to that way. I'm like, well, how did you mean it? Yeah? Anyways, that's crazy. I do that. Yeah So let me ask you this if you had to give one message to people What would that be? Care put yourself last um I know that if I Am honest About the relationships that I build with anybody In my personal life or my professional life. Good things will come to me. I'm not a philosopher I'm not saying that to be kumbaya like I just Know that if even if something bad did happen A supplier screwed me over An investor screwed me over My girlfriend cheated on me At least I know that I did well and you know I'm not The type to think short term either I like I'm not I'm not on this podcast six. I'm like, what am I gonna get from it? I just want to have a conversation with you may get to know you a little bit more Maybe one day We work together or something happens, right? um And I take that same mentality with everybody I meet whether that's somebody I've been friends with for 20 years Or like that woman who I offered my condo to who I'd known For less than two minutes See what happens men so far so good Right, like I I think I'm likable. I think people enjoy my company. I think I'm building a cool career I think I'm a good son a good brother a good boyfriend A good father to my dog, right? um And just see what happens man like People have to stop being so selfish um And just you know every action That you may every decision you make every action you take everything you say Just think of putting yourself second um And I'm I'm no angel man. I'm not perfect Uh, I I sometimes make mistakes and we're human, bro 100% there's things that I'm like, I you know, there's things that I'll walk back and apologize for but it's a human condition That's what I say people think things to they take they take everything too personal And they they they sticks with them, you know stays with them and they're like, oh You know michelle he didn't reply to my email half and I'm like, so what maybe he's fucking busy I don't fucking know like you know, I mean I have people like they tell me he's like, why didn't he reply? I'm like There's a million fucking reasons why he didn't reply 100% I mean don't take it personal like you know with that note though I always try to think and I I know this might sound cliche being like if somebody did that to me would that piss me off so somebody the other day asked me to um, if I was interested in coming to their conference And they'd been asking me for a couple years and I was not going to respond to the email because I wasn't interested But I was like, you know, wait a second If I was him and I didn't get a response I would be upset by that person How long does it take just to send an email saying hey, man, I'm actually not interested in this for this reason That's it, right? So like You know there that's just being honest and having clarity um and having that you know Difficult conversation by sending that email. I was like, I feel kind of bad sending this email But the fastest way for humans to get happiness to remove expectation Well said, yeah, I'm some buddha sank. Yeah It's expect so that person has expectations exactly right you do something you have an expectation, right? Uh, you have high expectations from your team like fucking high and they don't hit it You're like, all right, but it's still an expectation that you said in your own psyche you remove that expectation is like just you Can I take I want to earlier you asked me What's a key message I can yeah for people there's a another thing that came to mind People don't fail processes do And this is specifically to business. I try to draw a line between my personal life and my professional life at times um But it can be relatable to both So people don't feel processes do I'm a mirror if you were Someone on my team. Let's say you were a bartender And you weren't quote-unquote getting it You weren't making drinks fast for whatever the case might be Is a mirror failing or maybe our learning and development program failed a mirror Maybe we didn't teach him how to make these cocktails well enough If I can honestly say, you know what no, we Have a great training program. Yeah, the next question I'm going to ask is what about our interview process Maybe our interview process failed our business. How did a mirror get hired? How did he pass the skill set interview? um, and then you know for me as related to my personal life If I'm not a good boyfriend to Sophia am I failing or is Our process of our relationship failing. Do we have do we not have enough time to spend together? And the little time that we do have We're arguing because we don't have enough time to build that relationship, right? So that's what I Like to do is not just to immediately point the finger and say you're failing It's like maybe the environment that they're in is failing them and that that person Is actually Bright or should be within the business or in your personal life. So People don't fail processes do now. Love it. We'll leave it at that So if people want to get in touch get the book best resource My parents blessed and cursed me with this unique name. So I thought it was michael for them It must be french or something like that everyone jason's like no, it's michelle So this is so this is it It's like michael But without the a so it is michelle My middle name is alexander. Mm-hmm. My parents were gonna name me either michelle or eric They chose michelle. So I missed out on a normal name two times Forget the normal name. Yeah, so If you want just go to google type in my first and last name you can find me on social media there You can find the book you can find a whole bunch of stuff also guys listing this will be in the show notes I'll have links to michelle's book on amazon his website and everything. Yeah So my email is just up there if anybody wants to say what up cool. We'll do that michelle. All right. Thanks for that. Thank you. Appreciate it. Appreciate it