 Welcome indeed here this morning to our issue briefing on migration. Sorry we've lost a few of you, sorry it's starting a little bit late. My colleague here on the panel was in their meeting with the president, so I think it's entirely understandable. Those of you who haven't been familiar with our issue briefing format, they're designed as briefing sessions on some of the tougher issues that we face. We encourage blunt speaking, we encourage brisk interactions, so feel free to stick your hand up at any time. We only have half an hour, in fact we have less, so I think we should get cracking as soon as possible. We tried to not waste too much time on statements but could get straight down to answers. Roosevelt is on migration. It's a subject which is overshadowed, I think in global media at least, by the scenes we see in Europe. But it's also a greater issue in terms of numbers across Africa, and it's something which has led to xenophobic attacks and is threatening other efforts at economic integration by challenging the movement of freedom movement across borders. What is your take on migration? Are we seeing it getting worse? There was a lot of emphasis on xenophobic attacks last year in particular. In 2016, where does migration stand in Africa? I think when you talk about migration in Africa we have to look at migration within the continent and migration out of the continent. So those are very key. You've mentioned Europe right now. It's what is in the news, so it comes to define sort of in the eyes of the people what migration is about. But migration is much bigger than that, and it's easy to look at dramatic images out of the Mediterranean Sea and think that all Africans are kind of packing their bags to Europe. It's not the reality. The reality is that most migration takes place within Africa. People are moving. We must look at how migration in Africa happened and how colonial boundaries actually stopped migration and affected the migration of the people within the continent and the formation of the current states in Africa. Once in the post-independence period, countries were moving to build borders rather than how it used to be that people could be free to move across those borders. It has taken us a long time to even come to break the barriers. We are still talking about African Union wanting to introduce a common passport in 2018. It kind of reversed what it was like on this continent because people were free to move across borders. So when we look at migration, we have to look at the images of course out of the Mediterranean. They are very key to understanding certain issues that are taking place in the continent. But that's not the only story. It's important to look at the different stories within migration. That said, we must realise that what is driving migration a lot is political instability, the kind of desperate migration. So we have migration where people are seeking opportunities and it's not like they are running away from anything from their homes, but they simply are aware that there are very different opportunities out there and they want to seek them. But there are those desperate migration routes that we are seeing where people are dying. We have a lot of irritants crossing borders across Sudan and that has a connection also with organised crime where people have been taken advantage of by many organised crime groups. So really it's a very complex idea issue, migration. It's not about the Europe images and the Mediterranean. It's much broader than that. And when you see Africa, I come from Uganda, almost I think 5% of our GDP is coming from remittances. So that's what migration is about in another context, that people are able to move and seek more opportunities abroad and be able to feed their families back home and it's a big part of our economy. And we have seen countries in Africa moving to put in policies regarding remittances and diaspora because a lot of people are going abroad. And when we look at routes, of course, European route is so emphasised because of Europe has built a fortress where they think nobody else should come in. We should really protect this. But we have a lot of Ugannans and Africans going to Asia. You just need to be in a plane whether it's Kenya Airways or Ethiopian Airlines on the routes to China, to Bangkok, to Dubai. There are so many people going to do business and doing a lot of work in the Middle East and Asia. So the focus cannot just be about European people dying. I think it's just part of the story of migration. Thanks, Rosebell. And in my haste to get started, I neglected to introduce you, my apologies. Rosebell Cagamiri delighted to be joined by one of our young global leaders here, founder and head of Qwita Consulting based in Uganda. Also a journalist and commentator, I understand as well, over a range of issues. Happy to open up the floor to any questions if there are any at this stage. We have a microphone here, please. Lady at the front. Hi, thank you. Aaron Baker from Time Magazine. I'm curious, we talk about this idea of an African passport, but that's not even something we achieved in Europe with the Schengen visa. So are there other alternatives that would help migration within Africa for economic reasons but don't require something as big as a common passport? Thank you. Within Africa, I've already said that people are moving because I'm in the East Africa, I'm Ugandan, I hold a Ugandan passport, and I'm able to actually travel to five East African countries without requiring me a visa. I came here, I didn't pay any visa fee, but also Uganda is part of Commesa. I'm able to go to Zambia, to Zimbabwe, so I have so many countries. So it's not as bad as we want, but we still have a long way to go. It's just that moving between economic blocks becomes a problem. I have to wait so many days to get a visa to South Africa. I have to wait if I have to go to Nigeria, it's a nightmare. We have to see how can economic blocks, because they are working so well, echo us. So many countries, people can be able to move within their region. So I think it's important that the major economic blocks sit down and figure out, before we even think at the African level, how can we harmonise these rules, because it has worked for those economic blocks, and we have seen a lot of trade, and a lot of movement of people, and better understanding of each other. Because what we are seeing right now, like in Zambia, in South Africa, a lot of xenophobia, like you talked about, I think xenophobia is about the fear of what you don't know, and also misguided fear that the person coming in is going to take your job. And a lot of times it's not the case, so we are a continent with a very young population, and we have to plan for it better. Otherwise, if we are going to lie to our communities that we are going to stop, maybe Rwandans from coming in, and that will help you develop, it will not help you develop. We must tell them that we have to plan better for them, and not be afraid of people who are different from us. So I think that just as you see, and it's not a specific issue to Africa, we have seen a lot of rising xenophobia in Europe, anti-migrant sediments, we have seen that at the top level in American politics right now in the presidential elections. So it's not only specific to Africa. The good thing is that we don't have political leaders blaming migrants in Africa, generally on record, trying to say they have come and they have taken your jobs. We don't see good leadership, people coming out to seek out for migrants, but at the same time we don't see negativity towards migrants coming in from that top level. So we are still, I think in a way, safer if you see analysis from other parts of the world. Do you think xenophobia is on the rise, or did the attacks in South Africa largely have focused attention and created watershed? I don't think, whether it's on the rise or not, I think as more people move into new territories, there is a chance that misunderstandings will arise, but whether the xenophobia will increase is dependent on how policy makers and politicians facilitate a conversation about migration and movement within the continent. If your politicians are telling you that this person in the bid to get elected, they're trying to tell you that someone from Uganda, they are in South Africa, it's the reason you're unemployed, then that is cheap, then it will lead the society more radicalized, but not find a solution. As we can see, we are in a very mobile century. Many people are on the move looking for, because also of information, easy flow of information, Uganda is able to know where an opportunity around the world is done before, and that's why. Also we focus too much on Africans leaving without looking at actually, we have a lot of people coming to Africa from the North. It's not about South North, it's also North South. We saw a lot of Portuguese going into Mozambique and Angola, taking up jobs because of the economic crisis that hit their country. So it's not just Africans leaving, we have to understand it as a human mobility at the highest right now, because of different factors. Also within the continent, I just, in the previous panel I was talking to President Kagame, that Uganda at the end of 2015 registered the highest refugee being hosted in my country, in the whole of history. That is it, and Uganda has been noted as having one of the best policies towards refugees. Refugees in my country are free to get out of settlements and be able to find a living. It's hard, it doesn't make it easy, but in other countries we are seeing Kenya moving to close the dub. We know that Somalia, the Somalia conflict is far from over, yet you're seeing a neighbouring country moving to close that kind of hostility at that level. It's not going to solve problems, so we have to be able to look at what's happening around us. It has to do with forced migration, and I think UNHCR last year recorded 59 million people forced to flee their homes. That's the level of forced migration around the world, the level of forced migration because of conflict, because of disasters. It's really a very complex issue that we should be looking for good solutions and policies rather than rushed political calculations because terrorism blamed the dub and closed it. It does not help. It's a really short term and it's short-sighted. I don't think it will resolve any terrorism issues that Kenya is facing. Short-sighted, it's not the only regional world. Do we have any more questions? Okay, gentlemen here please. Good morning, I'm Andy LeCumalo from PowerFM in South Africa, so I'm South African. The question I wanted to ask, maybe just contribute to the conversation is, you're right, there's no politician who's going to come out and say, overtly that they don't support other foreign nations coming to their country, but in the case of South Africa, and I'm interested in your comment on this one, it's become very difficult to sell the idea of migration to the people on the ground, and in my suspicion, the politicians are responding to that. So it's not popular to differ from the people because these are the same people who may not vote you in power. The reality is that many black South Africans do see other Africans coming into South Africa as a threat to their jobs, as a threat to their livelihoods, and I don't think my people are lazy, but I think that a lot of the fellow Africans that come into South Africa are just a lot more hard-working, they may come from a different circumstance and may see being in the country as a different thing, even when it comes to small business. You drive to downtown Johannesburg, downtown Durban, even Cape Town in Port Elizabeth, and you see a lot of other Africans outside of South Africa coming in and making a living, and those people are seen as people taking away economic opportunities. So the question I have is, how do you educate the man on the street that migration is good for the economy, and there is an upside to them when all they see is downside? Thank you. I think it's a very difficult situation because it's the same government which has not done much for the people who are blaming the migrants, right? So they are not going to say, we failed you, it's not a migrant. So it's a very difficult conversation. And what do you find a lot in our communities that we have civil society on so many rights and different issues, and we are behind in Africa in finding civil society voices because it's not just a government that will speak. I believe that as civil society we have a duty to educate, to say this is what it is, in the absence of government, in the silence of government. There has to be alternatives to how people acquire information on who influences what people get. That's why you find that government is quiet because they are not going to say the truth, the truth will indict them, that they are not planning so well for their communities and of course it's a difficult history in South Africa that somehow black people in South Africa might not be at the same level maybe with the Ugannans because education, opportunities we had, the people there did not have. So it's important to facilitate that kind of conversation. I don't think one policy is going to be the magic bullet. I think it's important to have civil society facilitating community dialogue about who are the migrants and many times we isolate migrants and they remain in their small communities without any interaction with local communities. So I think the issue is really not necessarily that solutions are not only in government. I think I believe that we have so many issues on data, on how many people are speaking out on migrants rights and people to know that also they have opportunities and also educate people about their own opportunities somewhere else not to think. Because when you look at freedom of movement right now I think it's easier for us South Africans to go in different parts of the world than I actually. So the reality is that we have a young population, we have to work hard to provide opportunities for so anything that looks like it's threatening them will be the target and it's not the solution. That said of course the decision was about managing migration. We have to manage, we can't allow of course disorderly movement in people moving around and you don't know what people are doing in the country and most countries don't have data system to track down what are people doing, how much are they contributing to be able to have that kind of enhanced conversation with evidence based data rather than just feelings of the people. Thank you. So Rosebell, we're suddenly running out of time. It's a great shame because it's a debate which is fascinating to me as well. I don't think as you mentioned before I don't think we're going to go back to the days where borders are going to disappear. I don't think it's realistic that we'll have a fully functioning African Union passport by 2018. So we're looking at a situation where migration is going to continue, it's going to possibly rise. Do you think the steps are in place? There are enough best practices, good practices out there to mean that migration will no longer commute to social instability or do you see this problem getting worse? I think migration is a great opportunity for us but the danger lies in not really being able to manage it well. With migration there have come different issues. We have a lot of human trafficking on this continent in the name of migration. So many countries have signed migrants rights conventions but we don't see much emphasis on making sure that the communities that in different countries are protected, we only rush when there is an attack. We do not actually involve ourselves in a conversation daily. In Uganda, for example, we had a case in 2011 where a Ugandan woman who was part of a group that was trafficked to Iraq sued the government when she finally was returned home for not protecting her. So it's about also with these issues, how much of information do people have? In Uganda we have so many companies recruiting people, young people to go to the mid-list and they are working under horrible conditions, they are not told. So we have to have a conversation beyond youth retaining but also the issues that really underlying migration. So we have seen that a lot of Ugannans now are talking about migrants rights because Ugannans are facing a hard time in the mid-list and Uganda had to put a ban, I think, of the exploitation of labour to Saudi Arabia because we've had consistent human rights violations. So we are having that conversation with the mid-list. We need to have that conversation among each other about migration and the underlying issues that are affecting us. But I said we are in a really highly mobile society. I was born in a small village in Uganda which is not far from Rwanda by the way. So I'm close at home down in Kampala. But I came from there at the age of 18, I went to university in Kampala. Already we are migrating within our own communities. By the time you are 30 you have gone through different societies within your country. So it's about understanding migration, not as you have to leave your country in order to migrate. Even in my country Uganda we already have tensions because communities, when you look at the map of Uganda each community had its own area where they were. But now communities are moving, lands are being sold. So we have so many tensions even within the internal migration. So we have to expand the conversation and know that it's not going to stop. And looking at urbanisation, urban populations in the world are predicted to be double by 2060. So we are moving into cities. If you go home you realize that my parents live in the rural area, I live in the city, I see them once in a while. And that's the trend. And as people are moving into the city they also move outside their borders. So we are not going to easily stop this, we just have to understand it and explain it to ourselves and find solutions. But it's not easy. Thank you. Reisbel, we're all migrants, let's face it. Thanks so much, that's fascinating. I especially like your ending point on greater conversation between countries on migrants rights is a good way forward. Thank you so much for joining us and thank you for joining us here in the room and live online at weforum.org. Thank you.