 Looks like it's 6 o'clock. I'm going to call our meeting to order for the transportation advisory board meeting for Monday, February, the 14th, 2022. Let's begin with the roll call. Sandra Stewart present. Liz Osborne Courtney, Michelle. Here, David McInerney present. Steve Lainer present council member Yarbara. May I have an emotion to approve the minutes from the January 10th, 2022 meeting. For the transportation advisory board meeting, I move that we approve the meetings from the last board meeting. Is there a second? Liz, is there any discussion? So it's been moved and seconded to approve the minutes from the January 10th, 2022 meeting. All those that approve signify by saying yes. Yes, yes. Opposed? No, okay. It's been the minutes have been approved with. 100% I see that Diane's here now. Okay. Is there any communication from staff Tyler or Phil? I think Phil's got a couple items he's going to mention real quick. Good evening members of transportation advisory board and appreciate your time tonight. Before, you're going to have to hear me a lot tonight. So apologize for that up front, but we'll try to make this fairly quick and fairly painless. So, but I do have a couple items from staff. 1 item is kind of benign and it's maybe not really important to this group, but. We've been searching for an airport manager for the last couple of months. As you know, our last airport manager, David Slater passed away to passed away unexpectedly. A number of months ago in September. So we've been on a search. For his replacement and that's going fairly well. It took a long time, obviously, but. We will have a new airport manager on board hopefully in the next 2 months. I only mentioned this because part of my duties now are going to be to take over the supervisory role of that. Position, so that's a new thing for. For all of us, I guess, and so I just want to let the TAB know. As you may hear more and more from the airport, there is an airport advisory board that's separate. But we're really working hard with this with this new person. As they come on board is to make sure that they are part of the city. And more interwoven into what we do at a city level. Then was typical of the last 2 managers. So. You'll see more and more things, I think, come in to play with transportation and the airport. So I just wanted to give you a heads up on that. Any questions on that issue or that item. And I'd like to roll into the idea that. And I'm going to get this wrong way. I'm asked Tyler to look up the acronym for me for raise. And he might know it off the top of his head. I've already forgotten it, but we're going for a raise grant or a I S E. And it really is the new type of grants for larger federal projects or larger federal grants. And so I just wanted to give everybody on this board a heads up that we're working with Boulder County, the city of Boulder. The Colorado Department of Transportation and the regional transportation district, RTD and C dot. Are the acronyms there and we're all going after a grant for. Highway 1, 19 between Longmont and Boulder to get that must rapid transit project off the ground. And so we've gone in the past. We've gone for these grants. And not been successful because we're going for a grant that was just a very limited. Intersection in the city of Longmont, and though we have the support of all these other groups. It wasn't a very. Corridor ranging project. It was very long, not specific. And so we've learned through. Debriefs from these different groups that evaluate for these grants that that's not what they were looking for. They're looking for more collaboration along a corridor. And so. We're not going to go for the grant this time. C dot is, which I think is a good start. First of all, just to have them at the front of this. And finally, showing that kind of leadership that we've been looking for. For this specific grant. So just wanted to give you a heads up and we'll tell you more about that as we kind of produce it. And it comes together. We'll make sure that you get to see that and make sure you have all the information at your disposal. If you have any questions and Tyler was nice enough to. Help me out with the rebuilding America infrastructure and the sustainability. And disappeared, but anyway. And, and equity. So, yes, ma'am, my question is, is it going to change the design or the plan of highway? We're 19 the best rapper transit. It seemed like that was pretty well set what you what we were planning on doing. So, do you anticipate changes with C dot taking over? Well, again, it's going to be more of a quarter wide plan and just a quarter or our specific project, but our specific project. Does stay within the new raise grant request. So, okay, though, we're asking for a lot more money for the corridor for the entire corridor. And with the infrastructure and jobs that was passed earlier. That's, there's some more money that's available to projects like this. So that's nice as well for us to be able to go after some additional dollars. But our project will. Stay in the mix, which we're very excited about, but there'll be other projects south of long month along the line as well. And that project is really transition from more of a bus rapid transit. Peace to more of a, well, it was going to be managed lanes, which is what you'll see on 25. As you drive into Denver, you'll see the lanes where you can either pay for them or if you have a car pool of 3 plus 3 or more people. You can drive in those for free or if you're on a bus, you can, you can obviously take the bus in those lanes for free as well. So, we are not going to be able to do that in the diagonal corridor, the state highway 119 corridor, because. It's all, you know, signalized intersections that great intersections that don't have interchanges. So. To have somebody pay to get into those wasn't viable because you're only paying to get to the next stoplight. And we can't guarantee that a car can get through that without stopping, but we're, we are going to try to make it so the buses. Get through without with minimal, with minimal slow down. Except at the stops, obviously, where they have to come to a complete stop and let people on and off. But. So, it's going to be more of what's called a Q jump where the buses get to kind of slide past everybody in the left lane. Go up to the signal and the signal should change for that bus and everybody else has to stop. And so the bus will get to go through. And then the traffic, the rest of the traffic will kind of do its own thing as it was before, but. The benefit will really go to the bus buses in this new, this new system. So it's a little bit of a change. Yes, but it's not. It's still bus rapid transit along the. Thank you. Yes, sir. Phil is the raise grant money. Is that federal money that's already been granted to the state of Colorado? No, it's a it's federal money that's been allocated for all the projects around the country. And so we are. We are going up against and competing with. All sorts of other projects around the country. So, we've all 50 states plus territories get to get to apply for this grant and compete. So, yeah, it's a, it's a tough, it's a, it's a tough contest and we, and we've not had a lot of money in the past. In a pool, but this year they're actually breaking it into 2. Calls for projects, so we're going to do the spring call is what it's called and there's a fall call. And so we will go for all of these until we hopefully get it, or we'll do whatever it will do whatever is kind of requested of us in order to. I shouldn't say it like that, but we'll listen to the debrief. And whatever we can do to kind of make it a better projects will do, but we think that this project up front has a lot of potential. And Tyler, you might want to add something I think the only thing I want to mention, Phil. And, and you know, this as well. That I think seed out is only intending to apply for to submitting 2 applications. So I think they're pretty selective as well and what they're putting forward. And I think that bodes well for us and kind of the regional collaboration working together and nice to get seed out support on this one. Yeah, we were not able to get that before we were able to get seed out the region support the region that is makes makes up Boulder County and Walt County. And all the counties kind of on the East, Northeast quadrant of the state here, but we weren't able to get the governor's signature on it. So that's what we're looking for this time. Well, the bike path be included in the grant proposal. Well, the bike path is being looked at in a number of different ways. And so this grant proposal will. Part of it will go to the bike, the bike way. But we're looking at some other grant opportunities that are more multimodal focus on, you know, alternative transportation only. So that will be that'll be the focus of some other grant opportunities that we're looking for as well. So a great question because the bike way is going to be. Like way kind of gets piecemeal from everybody gets piecemeal then by all sorts of different funding opportunities, but we're going to try to get it all in there. With all the different grant opportunities we can look for and I'll be talking a little bit more about that in my next segment. Any other questions for Phil at the moment? All right. Thank you, Phil. Tyler, has it changed or is there any public wanting to be heard tonight? Don't see any both and ready to be heard on the ball. I see that we don't have any action items unless things have changed. Um, information items. So, Phil, you're going to talk to us about Dr. Cogg. Yeah, again, I just wanted to update the group because these are things that are going to kind of come in front of you in the next couple months. And just want to prep you and get you ready for some of this and get some questions that you might have. You know, address as quickly as possible. You may have some things that I need to kind of go back and research and get information back to you. But every 4 years, it's not every 2 years, I misspoke there. Sometimes it's 2 years, but most typically it's every 4 years. In fact, it was during the last Olympics. We kind of joked about it today. In the last winter Olympics, we were working with the Denver regional council of governments, also known as Dr. Cogg. I think you all love that acronym. They issue a call for projects every 4 years and this year it's going to be a little different where they're going to. We're going to do some other things because of that infusion of cash from the infrastructure investment and jobs act. So this year, there's going to be 4 calls for projects rather than the typical 2, what we did last time was we split things into. Well, I'll go back to kind of the beginning of time here is the transportation improvement program used to be this, this thing where we'd all just. Every city, every county, we'd all just kind of throw in our projects and compete against each other and the Denver regional council of governments, Dr. Cogg would. Kind of judiciate the whole thing and make sure, you know, the projects met the broader goals of the region. And if you, if you met basically the goals of the region, you would get picked your project would get picked to move forward and get some funding. 4 years ago, they changed it up on us a little bit and they decided that they would move it into kind of the regionally significant projects. And so 20% of the dollars went to these massive kind of more regional projects and 80% of that money was set aside for just the locals and they really decided that. For the locals to compete every county should get kind of what they are allocated by population and vehicle miles traveled and employment. And so they use those those data sets to decide how much each county should get from the pool because quite frankly, Boulder County always pulled. The most because we, we, we had city of Boulder, we had Boulder County. And and long mark quite frankly, the 3 of us were pretty good at doing these grants. And so there's a lot of animosity. Quite frankly, of boulders getting all the stuff and why, you know, I want, we certainly put money into this and we should get a share of it. And we have projects that are just important as important, but. For whatever reason, we were, we, we had some savvy folks in mostly city of Boulder and the city of Denver, I'll be quite frank. City of Denver got a big, big, big portion of it. City of Boulder got a pretty big portion of it. And people didn't think that was fair. So they said, okay, let's divide up by counties and delegate the shares of cash that way. And we dive, we divvy up the pot and I'll go for it. And then. So, 4 years ago, we started doing this. And so we were just competing within Boulder County for a set amount of dollars. And Rappahoe County was just competing within a Rappahoe County with all those jurisdictions for that set of dollars. So. And it goes on for the whole region. You know, there's, there's, I believe, 8 counties now that that vibe for this. So. That's the way it's been changed up. And we appreciate that that's that's probably a good way to do it. And we've, we've taken what we can, as far as, you know, going after the pot of money, but we did apply less or 4 years ago, we did apply for. 119 project again, you can tell that's our focus really of the county is that 119 project. And we threw that into the regional pot that 20% and we competed against all the other projects. And I do believe we finished 1st with that 1. So. 119 was kind of 3 projects put into 1 big regional project. And that's really how we got Kaufman Street busway under our belt. And that's why that project is moving forward because we won that money through that regional process. Winning's not the best way to see that, but it's the best I've got for tonight. But I did want to let you know that. So then we also competed up at the local level. So we competed within the. Within the county. And we did get some projects to there as well. So we were pretty successful and we had some, some good projects, but they were smaller. Much smaller projects like. Well, 1 of the projects we should also say that we're not just in Boulder County. We're also on the Southwest Weld. County, which is just a little portion of Weld County. Kind of that goes out to 25 and just beyond. And only goes up to basically Larimer County line. If you were to draw that across Weld County, you could cut out that portion. And we were able to compete in that project in that pool as well. And there weren't a lot of people applying for things, but we were able to get the same frame Valley Greenway with the same brain greenway. As part of that project as well. So we're trying to finish that piece up. That's that last segment that goes into the same frame. State Park. And so that's underway right now as well as Kauffman Street. So those are the kind of the 2 big ones that we got in those projects. So, we just want to let you know that this year, it's going to be even a little bit more different because of this infusion of of federal dollars. And so they're asking for for you for calls of projects, which is a little confusing. 2 of them are regional calls and then 2 of them are the more sub regional call. Or the county level call for projects. And so we plan to compete for those projects. And so on the back page of your packet. Just wanted to point you to some of the projects that we think are critical for long. And there are also something that's on our capital improvement program or capital improvement project list. So these are things that have already kind of seen the light of day through the transportation advisory board already. So, just to go through these really quickly, we have state, you know, Colorado is the new designation CEO is the new designation for state highway. So I had to kind of put that in there because you'll. See that a lot more often now, but the state highway 66. Basically. And this is this got this was incorrect as well. Sorry, from over to Main Street. It really is Pratt. I mean, we say Pratt, because that's that's kind of where the project. If you take. 66 highway 66 west of Main Street, you'll see that it's very wide until about Pratt. And then it kind of narrows down back into 2 lanes and each or 1 lane in each direction to lane total. So we say to prep, but it really is to Main Street. So state highway 66 from over to Main Street to widen that project. We're doing the design right now. So a lot of work has been done to get the design going. And the design includes things like. What we call side paths, very wide trails basically there are more than just sidewalks on either side of that street so that we can have people walk and bicycle. More safely on that street rather than just in the shoulders. We're also doing sound walls for the folks. Well, it looks like we're going to be doing sound walls for the folks who live south of that roadway. Right now the fencing and those things aren't adequate to mitigate the noise that's expected from widening that from a 2 lane to a 4 lane total. We're doing that for safety reasons and congestion, but we've had the congestion out there for a long time. We've kind of lived with the congestion, but now it's more of a safety issue. So the safety piece is kind of the big, big piece there. And again, we've already done a lot of the legward comment. County line road from 17 to State Highway 66. We're going to go for a project that really tries to widen out the shoulders on that one does doesn't really widen out the road much for capacity, but. Widened out shoulders again for bicycles and pedestrian movement to make it a little bit more convenient. For folks who are especially on bicycles and that in that section of the corridor. At some point in the future, we will look at design and construction for that to be a 4 lane in the in the. In the longer term future, but for right now that's that's what we're looking out for that one. And then. Kind of one that's been on our list for a long time is State Highway 119 also known as camera Boulevard in this section from Nelson to South Pratt Parkway. And so that's kind of the. That's really that, you know, place where we really funnel down and we have a lot of. You know, we have a lot of traffic that gets pushed into that little tiny area. Because you have so many roads that kind of come together and then people try to get through town on that. We have originally thought that that should be 3 lanes in each direction. But we've had some. We were seeing that that's not going to be viable in kind of the next phase of projects. That kind of goes against what I said about State Highway 66 but State Highway 66 has been a project for. You know, 20 plus years and we've had. It's got a lot of history that we can certainly go through if you'd like to hear it. Maybe over a beverage at some time, but there's a lot of history as far as deals that were made to kind of move dollars out of that project. And into. Into other projects in the county over the years. And so this one's. It has some historical piece to it. The 66 project does. But the 1, 19 project is newer, a little bit newer. We've done some design work. And we think that we, it's a very viable project if we make it business access and transit lanes. So that's basically a right turn lane. That the buses can go straight in. We have a lot of those in town already. But this is 1 where we would build it. An extra lane in each direction on the outside of the roadway. Put in brand new bike and walkway facilities on each side of the of the roadway as well. And then add this as a business access transit lane or that right turn lane for businesses. But the buses could keep going straight. So cars would be required to turn buses could keep going and that would be part of our bus rapid transit system as well. So that's something we're looking for. And really. That only works, you know, at the larger sub regional level, if we go for those different kinds of lanes on that one. I'll just stop to see if you guys have any questions because I've been talking for a long time and I feel like you might have some questions. Yes, sir. Yeah, thanks for all the information. So, real quickly on the hover domain on 66. Um, you're saying just that area that section is going to be go from 2 to 4 lanes. But I'll still go down the 2 lanes when it passes the Walmart, right? Because that's generally I think it's 2 lanes through the rest of that. There's no way to. Yeah, correct. Correct. We won't be working on any portion of that roadway yet. East of me. So this is all going to be west to hover and that's why we why we're focusing on that. And I can see your point of, you know, we've got traffic congestion. We've got traffic congestion in other areas all along that corridor really. But what we see is that and what we've seen for the last 20 plus years ever since we kind of built hover. To connect all the way from 66 down to down to Kimpratt Boulevard, which has been a long time now. We've seen a lot of people coming from the North who want to get to Boulder for jobs. And what they're doing is they're coming down. 287 or Main Street. I don't want to deal with downtown Longmont. So they're deviating to the West. And right now they're actually going to the West and then coming down over to get to the diagonal. And sometimes that's too congested. So some people are going all the way into lions. We're almost to lions and taking 36. The foothills highway. So there's a lot of pressure in there. And what we're trying to do is. Is alleviate some of that, but you know, it's kind of the give and take. Just a real quick follow up. So the lights that come out of the Walmart development. The intersection, the signals. I don't think the city has much control over those versus main and that is probably C dot, right? In other words, main and. I'm going to ask Tyler to please answer that question because that's a big backup because the lights are not time from left hand turn going north on 27. The Walmart light almost always turns red when an entire queue of cars is going through it. So it backs up main automatically during rush hour. These type of set I drive that a lot. That is something that we can take a look at and make some adjustments those. And Steve, you probably remember better than most anyone, but they're all on adaptive in that area. So we need to. Make some adjustments to our coordination pattern on that one. The one that's not on adaptive is effort. East of Maine and I noticed a lot of the traffic often gets stopped there at her. Once that gets released, but I think we can definitely resolve some of those issues. Okay. Yeah. The 2 Walmart's just seem like they're at a sync with the rest of the quarter. But I'll shut up now. Any other questions? I'll just continue on then real quick here. Just to kind of get through our list is we're working with that Southwest wealth. Group and looking at doing a bigger path or a bigger trail system piece that. Takes into account union reservoir and the trail that's planned to loop around that. Which isn't really much of a transportation, right? It's more of a recreation piece. So we're working a portion of that trail on the Southern piece to connect to. St. Frame State Park. On what's called the county road 26. So we're. We're trying to get it out there. We're working with the city of or the town of me. And the town of Firestone to also get connections in with what they're planning to do, which is to connect the high school. That's out in me. As you'll recall, there's some pretty unsafe. There's a lot of drivers that the people take through there. And so. But there really isn't a way to get to that high school from the South, especially. By. By bicycle or walking. Without a lot of effort. So you really have to be on the road. Almost to make that work. So we're trying to get. Our connection that we want to go straight East to the state park. And work that in with meets North, South connection and some connections that town of firestone is working on as well. So that'll be through the same brain or excuse me. That'll be through the Southwest weld sub sub region that we work on that one. And then as many of you have probably seen the North portions of Main Street, don't get a lot of love. And this does become an equity issue with a lot of low income. Families that live up there. And not being able to get to a signal very conveniently without. Deviating from your, from your pedestrian path. Quite a ways to get to a signal. We always push people to the signals, but we realize sometimes that's not. Not really. That's not the way people operate. They just need to get to the store. And so they just want to run across. You know, the four or five lane, six lane in some places, seven lane in some places. Set of lanes that make up Main Street. And so the idea is to put in. To do an underpass at main and 21st. And connect some of the planning that we have. For the. For the road west of there 21st Avenue west of there. Is planned to kind of be reduced to one lane in each direction. And then bike lanes as the other piece of the lane. And so that would connect in well with our oligarchy trail that's on the east side of Main Street. And you'll see some of that. There's a trail back behind some of those. New apartments that were built. And so this is going to be a really good connector. I think from the neighborhoods to get to Main Street from both east and west. Get you underneath Main Street in a more safe way. So we're looking forward to that project. I'm putting that out there. We think it has a really good chance. Go ahead. Yes. Sorry. We still have a concern that they do cross north of 21st Street because. The senior high rises there. And I see people. Crossing all the time there. And they're all the older people like me, but they're older people and they don't move real fast. And I'm afraid that. You know, they're just an accident about ready to happen. And I'm not sure that they'd go down to 21st to cross under the underpass. Even if you do put it there. I'm again going to call on Mr. Stainey to help me out with that. Chair chair steward. So you're absolutely right. And that's 1 that I see. Pretty much every time I drive through there is someone seems like someone's on the middle of the road right there. Just sell at the bus stop just south of the Kingsley for access. So a couple of things we're doing. I think we identified that as a need for. That safety improvement through the Main Street corridor plan. I'm also working on a an application that each set of dollars highway safety. Improvement program, which would be federal dollars to fund a Hock signal that would go at that location. Actually, then a couple other locations for. Hock and or flashing beacons, but that 1 in particular is 1 that I'm putting an application in for here. Okay, thank you. I didn't know if it made a difference because it technically is the state highway to 87 and maybe they didn't want to slow down there. 1 of the 1 of the great parts about the age set dollars on the state system is on month doesn't have to even provide the match if we get it. See that provides the. That's a good back for the buck if we get it. Great. Thank you. So we work with C dot we identify these issues and sometimes they identify the issues as well. And then we work together. To come up with dollars to to fund them, even if it's not in this necessarily in this tip program. But there's some other dollars available too. So Tyler talked about that. And then talk a little bit about 21st Avenue from over to Maine to Alpine. And we just want to start designing that. What I just talked about is taking the lane away. In each direction west of Main Street. And giving some of that. Unused capacity, quite frankly, it's not being used a lot. And so we've, we've done a lot of that. I mean, I know there's a lot of pressure about in a lot of discussion about growth. In Longmont, and I'm sure a council member, you hear this more than anyone. But really in that area, there's no planned growth. That's going to affect that street necessarily. So there's. Some streets that, yeah, there is some growth coming to those streets and I. I can't assure you, but I can tell you that the city. Staff works tirelessly to make sure that anything that's going to be developed. And it's planned to be developed. The roads next to it have the capacity to be able to take on that growth. And what we're seeing is. You know, some of the roads were overbuilt. One of those is 21st Avenue. And so. We're going to take it back down to maybe more realistic. Level for what it needs for traffic, which is. One line in each direction. And give some of that capacity over to bike ways and to. And make it a little safer for walkers too, because they're close to that edge of roadway in some cases. So by putting the bike way, we're giving some more buffer to the walkers as well. So a couple of things going on with that project. And again, that needs to go through design before it goes through construction. So we'll need to ask for those design dollars. So we're building exactly what we need to. And being very prudent with a, with the taxpayers dollars when we do that. The next one is over street. Longs Peak Avenue down to Allen, which is. A short stretch. And we're still kind of wondering if we need to kind of pair this in maybe with some other missing sidewalks. But that's that missing sidewalk that's on hover. We probably are talking about not just this sidewalk. We're also talking about the roadway. But that's that missing sidewalk that's on hover. We probably are talking about not just this sidewalk, but carrying it all the way down to the Home Depot on that west side, because there's just no, no sidewalk, except for that short little piece that's from the Greenway north to Allen. And then there's that gap. And we have that new project that was just built just south of ninth there. So there's, there's some gaps in the sidewalk we need to look at. But these are all bigger streets, bigger arterials. So we think that we have some good cases to put out that these are arterial sidewalks or what we call side paths to build. And those do cost a lot of money when you start adding up. So we're going to ask for some money for those. And Ken Pratt Boulevard. Somewhere between Nelson and South Park Parkway again, goes back to the idea that we had. Adding those bat lanes, but we've got some pressure to find a place for a good underpass. So we'd like to do some design work to figure out if, is there a good place to put an underpass in that segment of Ken Pratt Boulevard so we can get people safely who live south of Ken Pratt Boulevard to the shopping and the jobs that are north of Ken Pratt Boulevard. So those are some things we're looking at right now. And then lastly, I threw this on there because I like transit. We've always been talking about a circulator route in town. So what better place to kind of put this in than a transportation improvement program project that is looking at new opportunities for some transit. So I'm going to kind of shop this around a little bit and see if there's anybody who would be willing to help provide this like via mobility services. They have been very responsive to our request to help with transit in the city and they, they really were the ones who helped develop the hop. They were the ones who provided the service. And now that's been taken over by RTD. So RTD saw the benefit in those things. So we'd like to kind of replicate that and see if we can't get something like that going in a moment. So that's a lot to talk about a lot of projects. I'd like to hear if you have anything more to add, or if there's something that we're, I mean, there's going to be a lots of small projects on smaller streets. I understand that. But we're, we have to compete county-wide. So if you have anything that you can think of that maybe county-wide we've. Or that we compete on a county-wide level that we're, we may want to think about. Yes. Diane. So Phil, I have a question. If you could explain the difference between via and RTD. Oh yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Via is a, well, they're both nonprofits, but via is more local. It's more of a Boulder County based. Non-profit transit services really caters to. People with disabilities and people who are older. So it's, it's really for people who can't drive anymore. And what they've done is they've. They've kind of catered the program. So it's, it's open to everyone still. But it really is working to move people who. Can't move themselves as easily or don't own cars or don't. Have access to vehicles, those kinds of things. People who need to get to medical appointments. People who need to get to shopping. I need to do their shopping and don't have the ability to. Get to some of the shopping centers in our town. Um, I don't know. I don't know. So it's a door type service. Yeah, sorry. It's actually called a called a door through door service for. People who are older and people with disabilities, but they'll provide the curb to curb service for other people who have. Have more ability to, to, to be mobile. people who have have more ability to to to be mobile. Okay, thank you. I also have a question about the 21st 21st Avenue. You say it's overbuilt in places. What of specifically where do you think it's overbuilt? Well, I'm just, I guess, I'm just basing that on volumes. And we've, you know, we really kind of chew horned four lanes of four lanes of of roadway into that. And you know, when you drive it, it's pretty, you're pretty tight on one side to the curb. And on the other side, you're pretty tight to the curb. And there's not much wiggle room for the cars. And in our, in our kind of research for that of that facility, we've seen it kind of the traffic grew and grew and grew in the 70s. And then kind of plateaued off later, probably in the early 90s, middle 90s. And so we just saw a plateau effect. And we said, well, that those number of vehicles don't really justify a four lane road all day every day. And so there might be sometimes we did the same thing on on Francis Street, where we had a four lane facility up there. And it just wasn't being used to the full extent of the four of the four lanes. And so we changed it to a center turn lane, one travel lane in each direction and then bike lanes. And so we're trying to take that same model and we really, I think the only we got one call that said, maybe Tyler remembers more of the history, but we had one call that said, great job, you did a great job. And I think we had one other call that just said, what are these bike lanes doing here or something to that effect. But nobody would ever complain about, Oh, my gosh, there's so much more traffic, we can't get through, you know, you've really messed up the road. Nobody really noticed and thought most everything was better than it was worse. So yeah, I think we've got a handful of success successes on the streets of that similar type of conversion. I think of sunset between Pike Road and Kansas. Our next step would be taking that up through Ken Pratt. But that's one section where we definitely had a four lane road. There was some concern about taking capacity away. But at the time we did that, I think by and large, it's been a success. I've not heard any hand maybe a handful of complaints right out of the out of the gate when we first did the change, but it's been relatively successful. And once last year, we did 9th Avenue, more or less between Hover and Kaufman was another section to do similar treatment on portions of. And I think by and large, it's been a relatively successful project. So that's kind of the when we talk about repurposing capacity on 21st Avenue. That's really what we're looking to do. And we don't do this without, you know, a lot of research and a lot of thought. We don't we don't do this in kind of a haphazard manner. We make sure that we're really checking these different roadways out first and really checking to see whether if they have the capacity and what time of day do they get busy and those kind of things. So it's just a it's we're kind of on a tightrope a little bit here, but we we think we've done a pretty good job so far to identify those roads that what it was called is it's called a roadway road diet or complete streets. So complete if you look up any of those terms on the internet, you'll see that there's a lot of desire these days to take that extra capacity, not just have cars going much faster than the speed limit on with the excess capacity. But we kind of ratchet down the capacity just enough so the cars can make it through. But they're not going high speed and we've really noticed that on 9th Avenue quite frankly lately is the places where we've where we took out a lane in each direction, the traffic moves much more calmly, I guess. And people like the ideas that they can bicycle and walk next to this roadway that used to be fairly, really high speed. I mean, you can set your speed limits at whatever you want. People will basically go the speed that they think is appropriate, you know, just in their mind, they feel comfortable. So they go that they go speed, they go faster maybe than they should. And we just don't have the people to enforce so big long explanation. But that's what we're looking at for the city. And so you're talking about the area between west of Maine on 21st as it goes to hover, that's all four lane in there. And you're looking at that will actually reduce speed on those areas. But if you go east of Maine on 21st, it's mostly two lane one each way. And past the railroad tracks, it widens a bit. So there is room for a bike lane and parking. But I hear a lot of complaints there about parking on 21st because the traffic moves swiftly. And there's it's close. And so people worry about their mirrors, I guess there've been a lot of clippings along there. And there are homes that face 21st that that's the only parking they have in front of their home. So I'm just, I'm just curious if that's going to be a problem. And I know it's more commercial west of Maine, but I'm just wondering if that's going to be a problem for the people that live on, say the south side of 21st there. Yeah, about five years ago, we did what's called the enhanced multi use corridor plan. It's not a great name, I don't like it. But we shorten it down to EMU because that's what we do in transportation, right? We have an acronym for everything. So the enhanced multi use corridor plan took a look at 21st Avenue for the whole stretch. And so we have a planning document that kind of starts to lead us and was, and this was obviously adopted by council. So it's part of the policy of the city. And this document leads us to improvements in that area that really help pedestrians and bicyclists while trying to preserve as much parking as possible, but safely and not in a, you know, like you said, there's some issues with some of that street. So the piece east of Main Street on 21st Avenue, I would say is really is really about doing a higher level design work. We kind of know what we need to do west of Maine. So that design is going to be pretty quick, I would imagine. And then we go out to the public and get public input on that. But the design efforts east of Maine are going to be a little bit more intense. And we're really going to have to do some more outreach to make sure when we're impacting parking, we're doing it in a respective manner or a respectful manner. Well, if I can throw it out, there's been some suggestion that we take that bike lane and actually maybe put a, I don't know, it's called maybe a little bit of an island where people park on the other side of a curb, if you will. Just so there's that gap between the traffic that's shooting by the people that are parked, and just less chance to clip the cars that are there. And I don't know if there's enough space there, it seems like maybe there might be now enough space. And then if I can just impose one more question, you were saying about four lanes on Highway 66. And you wanted to add in room for bike pass and walk pass. And I wondered about the bike path, if it would actually be on Highway 66, or it would be a separate path, a separate cemented path like the pedestrian path. Right. The vision at this point is that it would be one path on each side that would be wide enough to accommodate bicycles and pedestrians at the same time. Okay. And so what do you think about the 21st Avenue idea putting some little barrier between the parking, sort of like a pull through parking situation? Well, that's really why we go out for public outreach on these projects is sometimes we're consulting from that we hire, you know, we have to go through that whole process of hiring consultants, and they'll come up with basically three, three options, or four options. And we take those out to the public, then we kind of see which one they can, which one is most palatable, which one offers the best, you know, bang for its buck, we'll say, but also keeps people want to make sure that they are getting what they need from the system as well. We don't want to take things away, especially parking is a big issue in the city. We realize that. So what we're trying to do is make sure we're working with them to make sure they get what they need from the project. But we also get the safety that we need as citywide, you know, citywide safety basically is what we're going for, for bicycles, pedestrians and people driving cars. And okay, so west of Main Street on the south side, there are homes there that just haven't had parking in front of their homes, and they do have a challenge getting out on to 21st. Do you think that'll improve their availability out of their driveways? And then will they also have a little parking in front of their homes? Well, we've talked about how we can design this to be to work with them. I know they do have driveways that go into garages. So there's a lot of driveways to contend with in that section of 21st. So there is parking technically behind the garage, but that's not ideal right when you're visiting. So then you have to back into 21st. What's kind of nice about that is that yeah, we could work with whoever's going to be doing our design on that project and make sure in that section we maybe provide a little bit of space for people to have a safe maneuver and not impact the bicycles that are going to be there too. So but there is a really wide sidewalk on that side too. So we've got a couple things in play, but it's all going to be kind of fine tuning the design and making sure we're making, not making, but we're keeping people happy and making sure that our design doesn't negatively impact people and their quality of life. So we'll be working through that. I know when I bicycle on that side of the street on 21st that I tend to use the sidewalk. It is wider as you say. And I feel that it's easier for people backing to see the pedestrians and bicyclists on the sidewalk. Also there isn't room right currently in the street to bicycle. But I was wondering if you move the bicycling into the street if it might be a little more dangerous for those who are backing out, you know, in terms of hitting a cyclist. So I'm glad you're thinking about it. All right, thank you. I'll pass the baton to whoever else has a question. Anyone else? David? Yes, Phil, is it accurate to say that this funding process is set up to reward cities and counties that can demonstrate that their VMT is increasing? We have, we have argued that case. It makes us, especially from the Boulder County perspective where we're trying to decrease VMT, it makes us pretty, it makes us a little wily and a little set when we have to compete against those who are getting rewarded, you're exactly right for, for increasing their vehicle miles of travel. And so we have had those conversations at Dr. Cog and this is kind of where we're at because the counties that really, you know, Boulder County and maybe Denver, maybe Bloomfield County are the three kind outliers and the rest of the counties are really excited about getting more dollars for their vehicle miles traveled. But that being said, a lot of these dollars are contingent on how you control greenhouse gases, how you accelerate or increase people on alternative modes and active modes. So a lot of the dollars, especially in this first and second call are really what's called multimodal dollars. And so you're going to have to come up with some really good multimodal projects to get that money. So it'd be interesting to see it kind of forces those other counties who have a bigger pot of money to look at their alternative mode plans and really make sure they're getting dollars for those facilities. Now three and four will be a little bit more traditional. Calls three and four will be a little bit more traditional where they come out of more of the highway dollars. But they're still going to have to prove that they don't increase greenhouse gases, which again, VMT is a great measure of, if you have more VMT, you technically have more greenhouse gas production. So it's going to be an interesting little game that's going to get played here as far as the politics involved. Yes. What occurred to me is that a lot of the projects for Longmont that you've presented to us this evening by encouraging walking and bicycling and possibly even transit shuttle riding, they have real potential to reduce VMT. So if they're implemented, it seems like unless the process has changed, it would hurt Longmont's chances in the future of getting additional dollars for projects like that. Right. And again, we're following the policy of our city council this to lower the greenhouse gases and really work on these alternative elements. Electric, we're working on electrification of having EV chargers, electric vehicle chargers in more public parking lots. And so a lot of different things going into that, but first and foremost on my mind is how do we make alternative modes more attractive to people so they don't need to drive everywhere in Longmont or outside of Longmont? Is there any indication that the tip criteria will be changed to encourage VMT reduction? Not in the near term, but possibly in the longer term, yes. Council Member Yarbrough. As you all were speaking, and I know you're trying, I mean I'm new to this so you all know that, but this all sounds like an equity issue to me, and Boulder County is talking about trying to be more equitable in every aspect of every division, every department. Our transportation, we need to make sure we have our safety is equitable. We need to make sure, I mean, everything that you're talking about are equity issues from our seniors who have to walk across the street and from widening our bikers and walkers, I mean that's a safety issue. So, I mean why can't we, and maybe you all have already brought it up, but I would definitely think that it makes sense to talk about the equity part of transportation, our lower income areas, safety issues for people who do, who are lowering our footprint, right? And so, I mean, we talk about sustainability and so I think we could maybe have some type of equity thing with it and maybe that way it can trigger and people say, oh, look at Longmont, they're looking at it from an equitable lens. So, I don't know, when you were just going through all of these calls, I just called the projects, I just really believe all of this is about equity and even the Highway 66 West of Maine, all of that to me and people running across the street. I mean, who wants to walk with a stroller if you're taking your kids to the, you know, all the way down to the light? You know what I'm saying? All of those things and that's a safety issue as well too. I don't know, maybe there's a thing that the Longmont can have and I just, for me, everything that you talked about was equity, so that's the thought. I appreciate you recognizing that because that is kind of what sits behind all of these projects is, we look through it through, we say equity lens, but we really are trying to broaden out where the projects go and not be as, you know, before maybe downtown got a lot of, you know, different grants and it was pretty easy to get those grants for downtown. Well, now we're trying to go, with this one, we're really trying to get kind of north and south of downtown and east and west of downtown and try to, you know, put those resources where they're needed and not just where a project looks good or, you know, we can do different kinds of projects. We're trying to do projects that, again, we're always using that equity lens to be able to see and it's been a big piece that's on our mind when we look at these projects is making sure we're thinking about equity when we're looking at the projects and we are reminded of that at every level, so I appreciate that. Yeah, and also with VIA, you know, when I think about you all collaborating and partnering with VIA, that's very good and, I mean, we are growing, we're about to, we're going to grow is inevitable, so how can we continue on thinking, me myself, I think about the UC Health, the hospital. There's no transportation that goes out there and those workers are essential workers, so are we going to use VIA, like the hop from Boulder? I mean, until we can get something, I mean, we need to start thinking ahead of the game because we know that that side of Kimpratt, or 119, is about to blow up and so we know that. How are we going to be prepared? What modes of transportation are we going to have to prepare us for that? We have to start thinking about that now and I know we got these small projects and they're really small big equitable projects, but then here we are again, we're expecting this influx of people to move here. We're building all these apartments, okay, and then we don't want them to drive. That doesn't make any sense, they can't hop on a bus. There are no bike lanes on 119, you know what I'm saying? So we, I mean, I know we have the trail, so I just want us to be thinking about that as well. Liz. I want to add to and thank Council Member Yarbrough. I wanted she mentioned something and I just want to put it on the record. Longmont lacks public transportation opportunities for shift workers. It's a huge problem and Via can't get people to work on a regular reliable basis. They can get you to a doctor's appointment once a week or something, but if you need to go every day and you need to go later at night, say you're working the one to nine or something, we don't have, that's something huge that is missing from the transportation aspect in Longmont. Thanks. Diane. Thank you, Council Member Yarbrough. I want to piggyback on that because I agree with you that safety has a lot to do with your economic standing. I don't know if you all knew Lawrence Shaper who was on the Transportation Board in Colorado Springs. He was a good member of that board because he worked in a parking garage. He was a pedestrian or bicyclist. He did not have a vehicle. He was very instrumental in sort of enlightening how the bus service was working down there. And I don't know if you all are aware, but he was killed in a pedestrian automobile accident around Christmas. And he was crossing to go get breakfast early in the morning and was hit by a motorist. Probably the sun was maybe behind him. And it was a young driver and it kind of ruined both lives there. He was killed and she was devastated. When we create these solutions, we're solving a problem of transportation for people who don't have other choices as Council Member Yarbrough mentioned. And also we're protecting the motorist as well because it can be devastating for them to be involved in a fatal accident. So thank you, Phil, for all your work with all this consideration on these projects. And I agree that we need to be pretty careful how we implement them. And I do see that on Well County Road, that's highlighted also as one of your projects. And that is a direction that people from the North End to get down to UC Health. But Council Member Yarbrough is correct. Now on 119, how did they get to it from coming from central part of town in Longmont? I just wanted to let you know that I just put in a chat, excuse me, a connection to RTD's latest endeavor to figure out what we want as different communities within RTD for the bus system. And this is kind of a shorter term look. It's like a five-year plan. And you'll see there's a bus that's planned for basically from downtown to the UC Health and the Walmart and the other businesses and households down there. It was one of those things we identified when Walmart first kind of came out of the ground is you're going to have a lot of people who need to work here, RTD start thinking about this. Well, they started thinking about it. Then we saw UC Health come to our door, you know, come to us with their proposal and we said, okay, RTD, there's some more people that are going to be out in this location. You need to start providing bus service. And unfortunately, it doesn't happen overnight with RTD. It doesn't happen overnight with the city, quite frankly. But talk about bureaucracies, I'm sure we could compare and contrast bureaucracies. But it's been really tough with them. And I would encourage you, this is a really clunky site, but I encourage you to go to this site and make comments about where things could be improved, what kind of things we need to really get transit in the city to work. Because we don't have a, we put resources into the ride-free bus system and I've talked to this group a number of times about that. We'll probably talk again about it in the near future, especially with RTD coming next month. So RTD will be coming next month to give their annual kind of, you know, annual report on kind of the state of the bus system in Longmont, Colorado. And so I really hope you can all make it. And I hope you have lots of great questions for RTD about, you know, their services in our city. But the first thing they're going to come back to you is we don't have money, right? So you're going to hear about resources, you're going to hear all these things. We need to be creative in the way we kind of work our way around those comments because it's always going to be a money issue with RTD and with the city quite frankly. But with RTD it's why can't you provide more or what could the city do, you know, to maybe change the way we allocate resources for the ride-free program? If they were to come up with a more equitable fare box system, you know, that works for everybody, could we then shift our resources that we're paying to buy up that fare box? Could they move those? Could we move that into, like, we'll pay you for more service than along this major route where we see a lot of people taking the bus? And we think that if we increase the service levels, more people would be attracted to that bus as well. And kind of work in partnership. We've been trying that for a number of years and you can kind of see where that's gotten us all. But I think we're all saying the same things. I'll stop. Any other questions of Phil? Yes, Diane. Phil, what is the name of the site where you would like us to put our questions in? Am I putting it in the chat? There's a little link in the chat. And if that doesn't work for you, I can send the link out to everybody. It's through a group called FHU, which is an engineering group that's doing the consultant work for RTD. But it's basically a mapping program where you kind of have to take your comment and plop it on the map and then put your comment in there. It's a little, like I said, it's fairly clunky. It's not as user-friendly as we had hoped it would be. We didn't really get to design it, but we've been kind of reacting to RTDs. Here's this way of commenting. So we've made a number of comments. The comment period was supposed to end February 9th. We got them to extend it to March 9th. So please send people there. Send people out there if you know of folks who would want to have comments about the bus system in Longmont. It would be great to really fill up the Longmont portion of that map with lots of little dots that say, here's where an improvement could be made. Here's something you're doing well, RTD. Here's something where you're not. So, I mean, we can give them good and bad feedback, I guess, or feedback that's both positive and negative. Would you please send that to us? Yeah, okay, I will. Great, thank you. Any other questions? Okay, Phil, I guess you get to talk to us about the transportation. Well, we're going to try something new. This has not been tried with this group before. So this is kind of my fault. And Tyler and Jim and Ben can give me a hard time for how this turns out. But I really think, and other cities have been doing this, is with these bills that are released by the legislature, they kind of go out. I think it's important for the TAB to maybe look at these, especially when they have such a huge impact to the city. Some of them are just about funding, and maybe you don't really care too much about those. Maybe you do, and maybe we should bring the funding ones. Maybe we should bring everything that's transportation-related back to this group. I don't know if we'd have time through the legislative session, which usually goes through what, July or June. So, but there is one out there that a lot of us have comments on. And I just wanted to kind of let you know, it's one of the more controversial bills this year. And it's really about the statewide regulation of controlled intersections. So what it's about is, it goes back to a rule that's called the Idaho Stop Law. And it really talks more about the idea that you can go up to a stop sign as a bicyclist. And right now, you're supposed to come to a complete stop, put your foot down to show that you've stopped, and then you can go on your way, regardless of where the stop sign is. And the first thing on my mind is, California stop with cars. Cars kind of roll through, right? And don't really come to a complete stop at stop signs. So this is kind of the same idea, but for making it legal for bicyclists to do the same. There's a lot of stipulation to it. And I think I sent a link, but I'm not sure if everybody was able to download the rules. But the basic idea of the rule is, as you approach a stop sign, and in our minds, this is a little fast. It says, after slowing to a reasonable speed of 15 miles per hour, or less, it could be 10 miles, it could be 20 miles per hour, depending on what the jurisdiction decides, which in my mind, 20 miles per hour is not less than 15 miles per hour. So I'm not sure of the wording there, but anyway. After slowing to a reasonable speed of 15 miles per hour, and yielding the right of way to any traffic or pedestrian in approaching intersection, continue through the intersection without stopping. And there's a very similar rule for stop lights, as well for signals. When approaching an illuminated red traffic control signal, the person must first stop at the intersection and yield to all other traffic and pedestrians. And then, when safe to do so, may proceed straight or make a right turn through the intersection, which I think is legal anyway. If you stop, you can usually turn right on red. But you can't make a left turn, which makes sense as well. We want you to hold and wait for the green light to turn left, but it's giving permission for people to go straight through a red signal in these stop-controlled intersections. If it's safe to do so, if there's nobody coming in either direction. And I think what this is trying to address is many times with the old magnetic loops and systems that were inside a roadway, and Tyler knows a thousand times more than I do about this. There's loops within the roadway, which are magnetic loops, and your car triggers them pretty easily and says, okay, there's a car waiting here. Now the other signals can go for a while, but you need to turn red at some point and let me go through as the car. Bikes have a hard time triggering these things, because you really have to hit a certain point on those loops. If you're in between, if you're in the middle of a loop, I mean, think of the loop as about, you know, eight feet wide or eight foot in diameter. And if you're a bicyclist in the middle of that, none of that is catching the metal on your bicycle, and there's not very much metal on a bicycle. But what Tyler has done really well in this city, and other cities have done this as well, is started to incorporate camera technology, rather than using the loops. They use kind of infrared cameras. And if you ever want to know more about it, Tyler's your man. But they can see that the car is sitting there. They can see if a bicyclist is in the area that they've defined for triggering the signal. So we only have a few loop systems left in town. And so we're really thinking that cameras are really working well to make sure that a bicyclist is seen. Now the pedestrian still has to do their thing at the signal where they have to push the button. And it's kind of called the big button at this point where you have to beg for the signal to change for you. And you have to push that button. And that's unfortunate. Tyler's also worked at downtown and in other places around where there's lots of pedestrians up north and typically on Main Street, where you don't have to push the button to get the walk signal. You'll get a walk signal regardless. So that's been really nice in some of these more higher pedestrian areas. And they're starting to work on technology that can kind of figure out if a pedestrian's standing on the corner. It doesn't really say which way they're going to go. So that's the hard part of that one. Pedestrians still need to signal where they're going to go. But we wanted to put this rule in front of you, this proposed bill, and get you to just maybe tell us, is this something that you want to see? Do you feel like this is the right way to move forward? Or do you feel like this law might be a little, you know, have some other issues with it? We just kind of wanted to get your sense and maybe in future ones, if you think this is a good idea, we'll come back and get your action item to give counsel some idea of where this board stands on some of these items in the future. Steve. Yeah, so I kind of know this area a little bit better from Idaho Stop. Personal Friend of Mine was an attorney in Idaho that actually helped pass this law. But I guess the problem with it as a whole, as it's kind of done is, is that the perception from the motor side is just it's always been very kind of a hot button kind of issue, if you will. And I believe, and I could be wrong, there's a couple of the states that tried to pass it and they weren't successful. And I can't remember what the states are. So in other words, I think Colorado might be waiting into one of those hot button issues in general. And so the perception of what it's there for and studies have been done and Tyler, Phil, you may have those that actually show it's it's actually safer than we have it the other way. Right. And so that's the big thing. So when we're talking about safety, you know, and that's really should be the main reason why we have stop signs and stop lights and what have you. The Idaho Stop, as it's called, is generally actually safer for almost all cyclists in all situations. Yeah, you'll have some knuckleheads, but we have knuckleheads driving cars too. Right. So the point is that this is actually a safety issue and it gets perceived as something else like entitlement and or, you know, unfair to the motorist, if you will, even though it's done when usually there's no cars there. So yeah, it's just my two sets on that. If I may chair offer just a little bit more information. And Ben, our Jesus really the expert on this. So if we need, we'll have Ben chime in here. And I'll give you some background, but the rule is really right now. And this is kind of the failing of the rule is that I think it was last legislative session or the one before where it was passed statewide that you could allow the, it's called safety stop. It's called Idaho stop. So you can allow the safety stop rule to apply as the cities wanted it to. So now in Colorado, you have a bunch of cities that have said, oh, okay, it's okay to do the Idaho stop or the safety stop at some of our different stop signs in town. But one of the towns was Thornton. And if you know Thornton at all, you know that it's just surrounded by a bunch of other different jurisdictions. So people don't know really, I mean, only us, you know, you know, us bureaucrats know where the actual edges of the cities usually are in those places, what road and all that. But most people just think I'm driving on a street or I'm riding on a street on my bicycle and I live in Thornton and I'm gonna, I don't have to stop at all these stop signs. Well, then you get into Westminster, which is right next door. Don't realize you've crossed the boundary and you're going through a stop sign and you get pulled over if that happens. But you get pulled over and you'll say, well, you weren't following our laws. Well, okay, now the law is different in each city and that's really what we're trying to avoid here's some of that with this statewide law. But again, it gets into the perception of bicyclists already kind of have a bad rap, as you mentioned. You know, bicyclists don't like the perception that bicycles have some kind of, you know, they get some kind of benefit because they're on a bike, they get to ride on sidewalks and they get to ride on the street. They get to cross at weird places that don't make sense to motorists. And so there's already this perception that bicyclists are getting away with something. So that's part of this is what we're trying to talk about. Council Member Yaraburra. If you bring this to council, I know what I would ask is, how are you going to communicate with the community members? That is key number one, like, just to even thought about it. I mean, education, education, education, like you have to let them know because what's going to happen is a motor is made end up hitting someone or hurting someone. With that, of course, not with it, you know, not being intentional, but they will say, I didn't know. I didn't know nothing about, you know, the safety stop. I didn't know that that existed. So I mean, even if that we did want to do something like that, we have to educate the community about it first. I mean, you have people who still really don't respect bikers, you know, cyclists out here. So whenever we try to do something like that, we have to make sure we provide education and maybe showing the other cities where it has worth and it's very successful. The benefits for both the motorists and the cyclists, if there are any, because people like to feel like that they're getting something out of it too and they're benefiting as well, not just the cyclists. So, I mean, that's my two cents of it about it. I don't have a problem with it, but I do think that it's very important that we educate those motorists before we even put something in place like that that people have to understand. What does this mean moving forward, right? Just to be clear, the city staff is not promoting this as a change at this time, but we just wanted to get your feedback as, you know, is this a good law? Is this one of the benefits? What are the drawbacks? How do you react as a board to, if we were to say, take a position on this, what would the board position be? Again, this is just kind of a, we're just kind of playing with this right now. We're not, it's not an action item, but it could be. If you guys wanted to make it an action item, we could do that at the next one. If it's not already gone through, that's the problem with these things too, is they're very quick. This one's taking a little bit longer because it's controversial, but they're typically very quick through the house and the Senate, the state Senate. So we just wanted to get this in front of you and kind of get your feedback. David. Yes, I can see the advantage of doing this statewide if it's going to be done for the reasons that Phil explained to have consistency for someone who unknowingly goes through a municipal boundary. But I was surprised that the legislature used safety and reducing the number of collisions as their rationale for proposing this. You know, I think it clearly, the benefit of this is to the energy expenditure of bicyclists who really don't want to lose momentum. So anytime they can slow down and proceed through an intersection rather than come to a complete stop, especially if there's a hill involved, that's a big advantage to them. But I can see at least one situation where I think it reduces safety at the intersection. So think about a four-way stop with a cyclist and a motorist approaching at right angles to each other. And the motorist is to the right of the cyclist. So the motorist is accustomed to not stopping at stop signs to turn right. So just rolls on through, makes the right turn. The cyclist is assuming that the motorist will stop at the stop sign and therefore intends to go straight through without stopping. So it ends up with the motor vehicle pulling out in front of the cyclist, which could result in a collision. I just want to point out that that's, I'm sorry but that's not accurate. So the law states in in Idaho it was not cyclists can just blow through a stop sign even if there's cars present. You have to slow down and stop if there's cars there. The idea is that if it's an unintended intersection with a stop light you have to stop completely. It's not about momentum for the cyclist. It's actually safer for a cyclist not to have to stop than to stop all cyclists. Consider that. Consider a child riding a bike stopping or somebody who might have some sort of a disability whether it's vision or otherwise. So the point is that going very slowly through an intersection when it's clear is the whole intent of that law. It's not about blowing through when there's a car there. That's that's breaking the law. And so that's you know if you read the original language that that kind of was the precursor to this and Phil's right. It's like the municipalities kind of did it happen stance and they want to make this a state law and try to make it I think as digestible as possible so everybody could sign off on it is what it sounds like to me. But it's a safety issue and a council person your bureau is exactly right that we're not communicating the benefits of this particular thing is about safety. That's the most important function of it. It's not about the advantage of one person to get ahead of the other like you know slowing down because you don't want to slow down. So I'm just saying that that the law states that if you hit there and you're a cyclist and there's a car there you got to stop. You can't just blow through the stop sign. I guess I'm thinking more about what happens out on the roads rather than what's written on the legislation. Well absolutely no you're absolutely right and I think that's where the education is Kate. Yes Diane. I guess I'm not as clear Steve as to why rolling through a stop is safer for a cyclist. You can explain that to me further. I tend to agree more with David McInerney is that in my in our last session I talked about if you look in the notes it's on page four I talked about an incident that I had and it's almost exactly what David described in that a motorist was coming southbound. I think it was on Gay Street from 21st and there's a stop sign there as you approach the northbound lanes in on 21st. And I was on the south side of 21st heading west. And I stopped and looked at him and I knew he had another stop sign there before he entered the south two lanes. And I advanced into the road and he didn't stop very long at that stop sign and he also did not look left and see me and he if I had rolled through that even at you know 15 miles an hour not going full throttle expecting him to stop again I would have been squashed because I stopped just before the line and he was shocked to see me there in the middle of the road and there wasn't anybody coming northbound. So I've got to say that when it comes to a pedestrian or a bicyclist versus an automobile the cyclist in the pedestrian is always at a disadvantage because we don't accelerate to the degree that other cars do and 15 miles an hour is just going to put you in a more precarious position even though in that situation I felt confident he was going to stop he did not. So for my safety I feel that the Idaho stop or the full stop is a safer alternative but Steve you could explain to me why you think it's safer to continue to roll through. Well again you don't roll through a occupy stop sign so in effect number one a pedestrian has a right of way at all times at a crosswalk at a stop sign. So a pedestrian should have so the motorist is breaking the law now I think David nailed it when he said that we know in practice out in the real world motorists aren't necessarily going to follow the laws of the rules we know that from rolling red rolling stop signs and what have you but I do know I could dig it up there have been some studies that have been done on this because Oklahoma California Idaho there's about I don't know then you might know how many states have passed this law there's been a numerous studies that have been done on it talking about the safety factors as well as the safety advantages to it so I'm partly speaking from personal experience as well as I know that there's studies that are involved with that but in normal small cases of this law when it's an occupied intersection meaning two vehicles a bike and a car you know gets there at the same time the cyclist isn't just below through the sign they have to stop they have to it's about yielding as well so again I think it remains to be education that's going to help maybe educate drivers as well cyclists don't get me wrong again there's an uncle heads up there that would blow through a stop sign and they need to be also counseled on the law and what it really means but I know I'm not completely answering your question and I can dig up those studies and send them to the group if everybody wants to read them yeah Steve if if this comes up before our board again and you have the time maybe you could point us towards some studies that actually show a causal link between the Idaho stop law and a reduction in bike vehicle collisions I've read about a number of studies safety studies that were done after laws were passed and they didn't show any increase but they didn't prove that the reason for that was the the passage of a law like the Idaho stop thank you Diane so Steve I I'm still not sure why a roll through is safer and in in my particular example the motorist was actually had a different he wasn't up to the stop sign where I was he was a stop sign behind so he actually had two stop signs to go through and still beat me to that side of the road and and I'm just feel I'm not sure you know and I'm a cyclist and I understand that I like to keep momentum going too and it gets harder and harder on some of those hills to to get moving forward however I understand also when I'm cycling in town that's a lot different than cycling on open road or on a trail where there is an easy pass through for cyclists so I think we should play the the long game and do this right and create safe scenarios for everybody because even though the motorist would have been wrong in hitting me I would have been dead so I'd rather be alive than right and also to address council member Yarborough's concerns I think a lot of people that ride bicycles every day do so because they cannot afford a car and that puts them at particular risk for injury and life-threatening injury especially thank you anyone else any more questions for Phil thank you so much for this feedback it's very appreciated because it's good to hear what other people are thinking about this beyond our city staff so appreciate it and is this something that we think that staff should continue to bring up to us house bills senate bills that may affect transportation are you interested in knowing that Phil yeah okay yes please so please let us i'm any anyone has any comments if you think this is a good idea or we can we can we can take comments next month as well okay okay yeah so give some thought to it yes Steve yeah I just posted three things so there's a DePaul study there's a study done by Jason Meigs in Portland um I gotta say the fact that Arkansas Oklahoma Utah Idaho have all passed this law ahead of Colorado is is actually kind of surprising to me but they also cite that they were actually able to show a lower percentage of safety increase and lowering and injuries because of the passing of law Idaho initially and then I think the Arkansas article cites the other studies as well so just to give you a sampling of some of the stuff that's already out there great thank you Steve thank you anyone else now it's time for questions from I mean comments from board members Liz would you like to begin thank you I don't have any comments it's been a great evening thank you Liz Steve yeah it's been great Phil great information on all the projects that are coming up in front of dr cog interesting how they're separating it I agree with David in regards to hopefully VMT is not the only criteria that's used multimodal equity quality to access to transportation I think is also key hopefully would be key factors that dr cog would take into account so all in all I think it's been a very good night thank you David I would just thank staff for the interesting presentations I've already asked my questions and made my comments thank you Diane well thank you all for stimulating discussion I agree that I would like to hear more about these bills as they're they're coming forward I agree with David about consistency in the law is helpful and share concern about safety and thank you Steve for posting those I've copied them I'll read them and council member Yarborough for continually making us think of the equity situation as it applies to transportation and Phil thank you for your presentation and a better description of what via is doing the niche niche that they provide versus RTD yeah it's been a great session I think thank you Courtney yes I think it's been very informative and I would definitely be interested in state laws that might change coming to the transportation board how they might affect our local situation and whether we would have comments to council to make sure that it is applied well within the city as long as it sounds like something we have a choice about so that would be interesting to keep up on as a transportation board so thank you for all the information yes Phil I as well agree and I'm very interested in hearing about more house bills or senate bills that pertain to transportation and I think that we've had really very thoughtful discussion and I know that we probably could talk longer on how we view things but people were very respectful of one another and I appreciate all of that and council member Yarborough I really appreciated you bringing up the equity issue as well as safety is paramount and everything that we do and thank you so now I'm going to ask you council member Yarborough do you have any additional comments that you'd like to make this evening no you all are wonderful staff is great I'm so happy to be a part of this this board learning so much and I just keep doing the good work and I'm so excited for the future because creative people like you are on this board who would have thought the transportation would be so exciting so thank you thank you okay is there any upcoming information transportation related information that we need to know about Phil or Tyler that is happening between now and our next meeting if anything comes up we will certainly send it to you we don't have anything at this time pending but things come up all the time so we'll let you know keep hitting something here um thank you so our next meeting is March the 14th it's month from today and you have on the agenda that we'll have our annual RTD update and I appreciate the link that's going to be coming to us to make some comments to RTD before we meet because it's an interesting meeting with them from past years so anyway with that is there anything else anybody needs to bring up Tyler I'll share my information this will um this will be my last DAB meeting here unfortunately like many others that have come before me they're usually retiring but um I'm uh leaving the city of Long Mott so I'll be I'll miss a lot of Long Mott for the time being and never say never but um it's been a pleasure working with this board and so you'll be seeing more of Phil here for the next few months sorry guys and then you're in good hands so may we ask where you're headed I'm going to be working for city of Fort Collins okay not far away as the city traffic engineer for Fort Collins well we wish you well yeah best of luck to you Tyler thank you very much thank you for your work thank you thank you okay um uh may I have a motion to adjourn anybody want to move I move that we adjourn for uh the evening for our meeting and I second the motion okay everybody seconds it all right moved in second and we're adjourned we'll see you next month thank you see y'all