 Yeah, it's a two o'clock clock. I'm Jay Fidel. This is ThinkTik. You didn't know. It is, I swear to God, it's ThinkTik. And I hope you're watching it live, but if you're not, or if you can't watch the whole show, you can watch it on YouTube or Vimeo later. So this is the military in Hawaii at the two o'clock clock on Thursday. We're talking today about supporting small businesses with the defense alliance, the Hawaii Defense Alliance, with Christine Lanning of Integrated Security Technologies and Daphne Fangpabe. Together? Yeah, Tongpabe. All right, Tongpabe. You know, who was in a variety of businesses, including native Hawaiian businesses here in Hawaii, and both of them are part of the group involved in the defense alliance. And both of them are, I get this right, committee chairs or on committees of the defense alliance. So let's talk about what it is so we can get our heads straight on the scope of this discussion. Christine, what is the defense alliance and what is your involvement with it? Yeah, so no doubt tourism is Hawaii's largest industry, right? And I'm sure your listeners know better than most, but defense spending accounts for about 7.7% of Hawaii's GDP. And that's considerable. So the Hawaii Defense Economy project, which is part of the alliance is focused on enhancing the understanding of the economic impact of the US DOD contracts and grants awarded in the state of Hawaii. So there's about $2 billion in total defense contracts in Hawaii annually, and any changes in DOD spending will have an impact on the economy. So the Hawaii Defense Alliance is actually based on a grant for D-Bed awarded from the Office of Economic Adjustment and the whole purpose behind it. That's a federal program. Correct, correct. So the whole purpose behind it really is to fold number one workforce development, and that's to support the workforce for DOD contractors and DOD. And then the second phase of that is really helping businesses with that cyber compliance, because it's going to be quite a huge uplift, I think, for a lot of businesses in Hawaii to meet that cyber requirement. And essentially, if you can't meet that cyber requirement, you won't be doing business with the federal government. So the whole point is really to help Hawaii businesses with those two initiatives. Not easy to meet that requirement. That's a lot of studies, like a graduate degree, isn't it? Yeah, I can tell you, I've already received several calls just from other contractors that we do business with. Really, it's interesting, more on the construction side that really don't think that they have anything to do with cyber. But there is a real concern on the DOD with regards to making sure that businesses large and small are compliant and doing everything that they need from a cybersecurity perspective, really, to protect the nation's assets. And so it's going to be really difficult for a lot of companies that have never had to deal with cyber, maybe to outsource their IT and don't really know what systems they have or whether or not those systems are protected. And so it's a huge uplift. So a big part of the Hawaii Defense Economy Alliance really is education and making sure that Hawaii small businesses are educated with regard to what the compliance is, how to become compliant, what systems they need, what processes they need, what policies they need, and really trying to help them get up to that level. And I do think it will help not just on the DOD side, but I think it will also help for those businesses that do a lot for critical infrastructure, for banking, for healthcare, and for really any other industry that cares about their supply chain. More and more. So tell us a little about integrated security technologies. Your husband, Andrew Lanning, who does a show on Tuesday mornings every few weeks, tells us that actually you run the company. I want to know how that works. You know, Jay, he spends all his time doing that show. So that's pretty much what he's regulated to. So our company is a small business contractor in Hawaii. We're a licensed contractor. We do commercial work as well as federal work. We do electronic security. So that's all your CCTV, video surveillance, access control systems. A large portion of that is with the federal government, although we do some commercial businesses. What's interesting is in 2020, I was the SBA leader of the year. And that's something I'll take very lightly. And that's really one of the reasons I'm pursuing this. Hawaii Defense Economy Alliance is because I think it's just really a great way to give back. And all those contractors got to stick together because it's not easy to do it alone. I can tell you that. True fact. Okay, Daphne, your turn. Tell us what you're doing, your companies, and tell us why and how you're involved in the alliance. Great. Thank you, Jay. Again, my name is Daphne Tong-Pave. I am with a Holomua consulting group. We're a small woman-owned business here in Honolulu. We started in 2014. And basically what we do is help small businesses that are either in or want to get into federal contracting. So we provide small business support with getting certifications as well as compliance with those really complex federal regulations. In addition to Holomua, my business partner and I actually are the executive directors for the Native Hawaiian Organizations Association, or NHOA. They're a trade organization that's made up of Native Hawaiian organizations. These are nonprofit organizations that own subsidiaries or small businesses that are able to participate in the 8A program. So they basically use this small business contracting program to generate revenues that go back to the Native Hawaiian community. So I am participating in the Hawaii Defense Alliance representing both Holomua as well as NHOA. We provide two hats with different perspectives on the small business side. So individual-owned companies as well as these maybe larger, more complex entity-owned companies including the NHOs. If I can take a step back though and kind of add to what Christine had said about the Hawaii Defense Alliance, one of the, I think, important things that they've done is they did an analysis back in 2019-2020 to really look at the opportunities, the threats, and kind of what you can do to help businesses grow in the defense economy. And I think that was important. And as a result of that, the alliance was formed. And part of it is the small business support work, sorry, committee. There are, I want to say, four committees. Christine, correct me if I'm wrong. And that all have kind of different missions. And I think the small business support group is really important because it really highlights the, again, the need for small businesses here to not only support the mission of the Department of Defense, but also their importance to the local economy. So it's a great opportunity, as Christine mentioned, with her experience with IST and kind of how they've grown and really navigated the federal marketplace, but also how can we utilize that type of experience to help small businesses who maybe are just starting off or are looking at federal contracting but have no idea where to start. So I think that's the role of this small business support committee. And that's kind of how it ties into the Hawaii Defense Alliance, generally. So, Daphne, Christine was talking about cyber. And indeed, cyber is very important to the Department of Defense, the military, and to the bases here in Hawaii, and commands, all the commands here in Hawaii, and to that matter, Pacific, Indo-Pacific. And now she's a technology person. Her company's a technology person. And they can offer that kind of expert support to the companies around the alliance who want to do business with the government and who presumably need help, need support on cyber. What's the parallel for you? What do you offer? What are your companies offering to the government? What kind of businesses are they involved in? Your thing will be different, wouldn't it? So tell me about it. Yeah, it would be. And actually, we don't... So hold on more, we're not a federal contractor. We don't sell goods or services to the federal government. What we do is help small businesses who are in or want to get into the federal space. You talk about cyber, and that's just one regulation, one area that small businesses need to comply with. There are so many more. So that's kind of where we come in. Small businesses that are looking at getting into government contracting, oftentimes look at these small business contracting programs, and that's kind of what we help with. So we help make sure that they have systems in place to qualify for these programs and to ultimately succeed as a federal contractor. So I say systems that could include accounting, human resources, contract management, all of these administrative things that small businesses often time overlook and quite frankly, don't have the resources to spend a lot of time with. And I'm not saying we do this for them. It's just kind of pointing them in the right direction to the experts in these different areas and making sure that they're aware that they need to have these things in place in order to be a federal contractor. So I think again, the Small Business Support Committee is looking at all of this. I think there's two different types of businesses, although the committee is still kind of working at what exactly it's going to do and the metrics and how we're going to determine whether or not it's been successful. But there's two different types of businesses. One, they're just starting off, they're the mom and pop, they're wanting to kind of grow and they're looking at perhaps doing federal contracting. And then there are businesses that are already established like Christine who bring a wealth of experience and knowledge that can be helpful. So how do we merge these groups to ultimately come up with either a plan or support or education as what Christine has mentioned to really help the small business community broadly? You said now that you don't actually teach them accounting, but you put them in touch with accounting people who can teach them and do the work. So in that sense, it's a referral service that you provide, am I right? Yeah, yeah, you could see that. I'll leave it out a little bit more because our business grows so much and I'll give you an example of just something recently. So part of our kind of our 10-year plan has been to establish a joint venture with another organization. And I got to be honest, I would have had no idea where to start. A lot of it's legal, a lot of it requires regulatory requirements as a part of the SBA and just understanding operating agreements. And you know, this is just stuff I don't have expertise in. And I could go to a normal attorney and probably fumble through it, but they don't have the DoD contracting experience that Daphne and her partner Shannon have. And so being able to rely on them for that expertise has been absolutely crucial for us in terms of our growth. And that's something that we wouldn't have had access to really if it wasn't for their company. You're relying on Daphne's company? Yep, absolutely. Okay, what Daphne, what do you know? Who do you know? Did you go to school for this? What do you bring to the table to be able to be so valuable to Christine and other companies in the alliance? Well, first we really appreciate Christine. She's like one of our best clients. So Shannon Edie is my business partner. She's a president. We co-founded, again, the company in 2014. Prior to doing this, we were working for a native wine organization defense contractor. So a lot of our experience comes from that. You know, the small business contracting programs that's administered by the SBA are really complex. So we got a lot of our experience by working for a firm that was in that program. Shannon Edie is an attorney and as Christine mentioned, her background has really helped, you know, with all of the legal and compliance issues that come into play, whether it be joint ventures, mentor protege, or even just applying for like the 8A program. That's kind of what our specialty is, is completing the applications to participate in the 8A program. But I think what businesses often don't, they don't realize until they get in the application process is that there's so many things that you need to have in place in order to even apply and succeed. It's only a nine-year program. You can't stay in it forever. So that's kind of what we bring to the table. Okay. That was my next question. 8A program. What is that? And is it special for native wines or other, you know, other ethnic groups? How does it work? How do I join? Can I join? I'm sure Daphne gets that question a lot. You want me to take that? You're the one who started this, Daphne. Well, I'll let Christine Christine have some comments. Go ahead, Christine. Well, you know, the 8A program is a very interesting program and it's really meant for minority, socially and economically disadvantaged individuals or entities. And so for us, being a woman-owned company, we had to show that we were, that I was economically disadvantaged in addition to being socially disadvantaged. And the whole purpose, like Daphne said, it's a nine-year program. It's meant to be a business development program, really meant to help you kind of blow it out of the water with regards to DOD contracting. There's the ability to sole-source contracts with the federal government, which can be very lucrative. I'm not saying easy, but it can be. But it's a difficult program because there's a lot of regulations and requirements around it that if you're not prepared for, you could really struggle with. So I'm sure I kind of, you know, ruin that, Daphne, but I'll let you kind of go. No, that was a great overview. Would you want to rebut anything that Christine said? Nope, not rebutting, but I can expand a little bit. So again, it's a business development program. I think that's important to note. It's not a startup program. You have to demonstrate that you're going to be successful in the program. So that generally means you have two years of business, have been in business for two years. Again, it's for socially and economically disadvantaged individuals. So that means you are more often than not a member of a group presumed to be socially disadvantaged. So Asian American, African American, Native American, including Native Hawaiians. Economically disadvantaged, SVA will evaluate an individual's personal net worth. And as Christine mentioned, it's a nine year program. And it's basically, you know, a program to really help businesses grow and develop so that they are successful after the nine years. What we see too often is businesses want to get into it because they hear about the sole source opportunities that Christine mentioned, but they're not prepared. You know, they don't know how the federal government buys their product or service. They don't know how the SVA operates. So they are not sure about, you know, all of the compliance requirements that come with being in the program. So that's again, our specialty. That's kind of what we bring to the table. But it's also, I think, an important piece of the Small Business Committee, because, you know, too often we see small businesses here, they're not prepared to even take advantage of the ADA program. While it is a good opportunity, businesses really need to get up to a point where they can maximize the opportunities of that program. Well, suppose I come to you and say, look, I can read. I'll find the regulations. I don't need you guys. Sorry. Thank you very much for being available. Appreciate it. But I can do my own navigation. What do you say to them? We say, go ahead. We do not stop people from doing it themselves. And, you know, when we first started, we did do a lot of workshops and, you know, just got out there in the community doing training with the SVA. And one line that they always use is that a high schooler can put together the application. But far too often we have seen that, you know, businesses run into problems and either are denied or are not able to put together a strong enough application to get through the process expeditionally. And I say that meaning, you know, the typical six months to a year sometimes to get certified. So it is a challenging process. And we don't, you know, say you have to come to us. We do encourage people to do it on themselves. Is it a dangerous process in the sense that if I make a mistake, I put the wrong answer down. I don't treat it right. I don't, you know, do it as well as you might advise me to, that that's going to hurt me not only for the pending application, but later. I would say perhaps for the application and maybe later it just depends, you know, we've seen people, you know, part of the application process is SVA is going to have questions and doing that. During that process, we have seen people maybe get caught up in trying to explain things not 100% accurately. And then they have to live with that later. If they didn't characterize it correctly. Now let me move to another thing, Christine. This is something that has been a threat in this conversation. That is the metrics. So you guys are trying to, when I say change the world in our own way or in Hawaii, we try to change the world. What are the metrics? How successful do you want to be? How successful are you? And how do you measure success? Yeah, I think for us, we've kind of batted around a couple of metrics, but it kind of keeps coming back to obviously overall dollars and do the overall spending dollars increase in Hawaii. Number two does the amount of contractors that are doing business with the federal government increase, which is another very important one. And look, this is all very self-serving. I mean, I won't lie. As a contractor, part of why we're so successful is our ability to partner with other contractors. And so it's really self-serving. I want to see other companies in Hawaii succeed because that means if they succeed, I can partner with them on opportunities together. And so, you know, we kind of all need each other. It's this whole ecosystem of supply chain that's absolutely instrumental, because we literally are on an island. And so it's not like I can just go down the street or, you know, 100 miles down the street and get four different contractors that do electrical work as an example. And so being able to have the support of small businesses in Hawaii is really crucial. But I think more often than not, people are afraid. They're afraid to get into government contracting because of the regulation. And so being able to encourage them and help them and give them the resources that they need is key. And so we haven't, I don't believe we finalized the metrics. I think we have a few of them, but we're still trying to find other metrics that are really representative of whether or not the program is successful. But really, I'm just looking to see, does it get more businesses interested in doing DOD contracting? Does it get more business to Hawaii contractors on the DOD side? That's what I'm looking for. Sure. Sure. An important part of the economic diversification of Hawaii, for sure. But there's a couple of things you mentioned I want to inquire about. Number one, as you mentioned, workforce developing workforce. And when I hear that, especially in the technology context, I think of a guy who quits his job in the morning, gets a job in the afternoon. And, you know, these days it's harder to have what do you call it agreement, you know, do not compete, non-compete agreement. So he gets another job in the afternoon from the competitor. So you have their competition. You also have competition in setting up these alliances, and you have competition in getting government contracts. By definition, it's competitive, isn't it? So the question is, how does the alliance, how do you guys, how does your committee, how does it deal with the prospect of competition? And, you know, sometimes people are resentful of competition. Sometimes they don't compete fairly. What's your answer? That's very interesting. And I got to admit, we're in a little bit of a unique industry. So we're a little bit of a hybrid of IT skills and low voltage electrical wiring, right? So, and there's no school in Hawaii anymore that provides that kind of training. The unions used to provide it, do they still? They do. Humans do still provide that. The difficulty really is finding people that have those basic skill sets. And so we're competing with like union electricians, we're competing with union carpenters or people who want to go into the union and go into actual contracting jobs, construction jobs. And so we're kind of competing for those type of people. But the reality is, is Hawaii's only got so many people, right? And so we as a DOD contractor can pretty much offer a lot better salary than our competitors who don't actually do government work because we can pay higher wages, i.e. Davis Bacon wages, i.e. service contract wages. So our people are hard to find, but it's easy to kind of, once we find them, and it's easy to keep them because we pay them really well. So from a competition standpoint, I think, I think I could probably speak for the people actually in the Small Business Committee Alliance. I mean, we all just really work really well together. We're all trying to fight for the same thing. And it's not about stealing employees from other businesses. It's really about growing the employees we currently have. And maybe they don't serve the tourism sector because that's kind of served Hawaii for so many years. But the reality is we have to diversify. And so, you know, you can, a person can choose to just go into and become a maid at a hotel making, I don't know how much they make, but I'm just guessing it's probably less than $20 an hour, or they can go and get some minimal skills with a high school education and work for my company making $20 an hour plus. And so it's just, it's truly a difference. And I think it's actually elevating the workforce more than it is competing for the existing workforce. You guys, you're anticipating my questions every time. It's really, it's a little bit, you know, nerve-wracking here on my side of it. Because every time I formulate a question, I want to ask you who answer it before I ask it. That's really impressive. You guys are very good at doing this. So Daphne, here's a question that has been raised and that is, you know, the Hawaii economy. I mean, we just came out of phase one of COVID, I say phase one because I think we're in phase two right now. My wife was watching television today and she's really intimidated by what's going on with Dr. Fauci and new variants and whatnot. So we have a problem, Houston. We have a problem in terms of developing a new, a reimagined economy. And tourism actually isn't working that well right now. It may not be the Holy Grail anymore. When we come out of this, hopefully soon. So the question is, how does this, the alliance and the companies that you help on the alliance, how do they feed into a better diversification going forward? Because we all know how important that is. Is it going to be the kind of jobs, the kind of companies, the kind of associations, if you will, alliances, if you will, business partnerships to keep people here, to make them happier than they would be at, what did you say, Christine, something approaching $20 an hour folding hospital corners in Waikiki. We've got to draw them, may I say, we've got to draw them away from that into a more professional kind of environment, a better economy. What do you think? Yeah, I think that's the premise of the Hawaii Defense Alliance. They conducted the SWAT analysis and I want to say, even prior to that, they recognized that it was important that they get additional information about the defense economy here and how we can really maximize the dollars being spent here and keep it with local businesses and not going out to either large businesses or other small businesses that are not based in Hawaii. So I think that's the premise of the Defense Alliance and that's the importance of having all of these different working groups, workforce development, small business support being two of them that are looking at all of the findings from their SWAT analysis and really coming together, as Christine said, to how can we work together to grow our small businesses, put them in a position to really take advantage of the dollars that are already here, how can we make sure it stays here with our local businesses. So I mean, I think that's what we hope to accomplish with the small business support group and really provide resources, education, networking, just opportunities for small businesses to understand what's available to them and put them in a position to take advantage of the defense dollars that are already here and we anticipate growing. That makes it very, very important. Okay, I want to get to the macro now and Christine, I don't want you to tell me anything that may be classified, but I want to know your understanding of the development of the DOD presence here in Hawaii because we know that geopolitically, Asia Pacific is more important now or as treated as more important now. The contention with China is like, whether you see it on the headlines or not, it's happening every day. The risks of, of course, cyber, but also the risk of having people just a few miles off our shores, you know, surveilling us, which has happened. This has got to be a factor in the development of DOD and its presence here in Hawaii and thus, with the defense alliance and thus with local companies and thus with you guys. Tell me about it. You know, I've been here in this whole pivot to the Pacific for probably 10 to 15 years and what I would say to you is I would say to you that is absolutely happening and really the proof is in where the money is being spent. So if you look at the, look at the build-up on Guam and it's every branch of military, it's not just the Navy, it's the Navy, it's the Army, it's the Marines, it's the Air Force, it's the Coast Guard. And so all of them are investing billions of dollars over the next five to 15 years on this build-up in the Pacific region. And so you just got to follow the dollars. I mean, it is very evident what the threat is and very evident that DOD is taking that very seriously. And again, all you have to do is follow the dollars. Absolutely. That's what you guys are doing. And Daphne, here's his one for you that's a little sensitive. So you're dealing with local companies. You're dealing with companies that are native Hawaiian and other ethnic groups and you're trying to put them together with defense contracting and all that. Do you have a problem? Is there a problem in putting a native Hawaiian group together with a non-native Hawaiian group where somebody says, I don't want to deal with them. I'd rather deal with my own kind. You know, don't try to get me to mix things up. You ever run into that? I have never run into that. That's an interesting question. No, I mean, I don't think, as Christine mentioned, we're small businesses. We provide a product or service. We work together when we can. I don't think we see native, non-native. Although, as I mentioned, there is a special program for native Hawaiian organizations because their missions differ than individual-owned companies where profits are going back to the native Hawaiian community instead of individual business owners. So suppose I have a company involved in geothermal, which is slightly sensitive on the big island where there had been protests, or a company involved in astronomy having to do with monocare and a couple of billion dollars' worth of offshore investment, which is out there waiting for us. How do you handle controversial issues? How do you handle companies that are involved or would be involved or won't be involved in controversial projects? So you definitely touch on the cultural aspect. And I think maybe that's what you're looking at is the community concerns versus small businesses or businesses that are able to perform work for Department of Defense or federal government generally. So we don't get involved with necessarily concerns about specific projects. Again, our goal is to really just help small businesses grow and develop. Although, we are aware that there are sensitive issues in the native Hawaiian community. I mean, even if, to the extent that it should the Department of Defense be doing certain things in the state. Sure. I should erase that question myself. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. And we are aware of it. We don't necessarily get involved with it, but we do recognize that there are cultural issues that need to be considered. But the end of the line, it's bottom line at the end of the line. I mean, you're not into anything ideological, so much as trying to have them be successful. Am I right? Correct. And Jay, I would even argue that really supporting native Hawaiian organizations is key to supporting Hawaii because at the end of the day, we're all on an island supporting each other, supporting the government, supporting an economy. And it's really, it's just absolutely critical that we work together, period. Well, let's talk about, I want to take a few extra minutes here, if you don't mind. Now that you raised that, Christine, make me think of other things. What is your view of the diversification and expansion of the Hawaii community, such that all these small and medium-sized companies are successful in dealing with government and otherwise? And people involved stay here and prosper and thrive. What does it look like to you, that dream, that prospect? Well, I think for me, it's really higher paying jobs. It's scientific research. It's kind of being the tech hub of the Pacific. I mean, as an example, part of our CMMC compliance requires us to kind of be in a Fed ramp system. And we have to go to the mainland to get that because local businesses here can't currently support that as far as I'm aware. And so that's just one example that if I could use a company here, I would much rather want to use a company here because it's kind of like having access to, these are the people that dine at the same place as I dine, sleep under the same stars as I sleep on, and people that I can talk to and touch and be in contact with. Sometimes I feel like the mainland is so far away. And so for me, it's really just out of selfishness to want to have a community that I can rely on for the things that I need to function on a day-to-day basis. And so I am absolutely looking for better schools, more technology, and just really kind of being that amazing aura of light in between here and the Pacific area, right? So that's just my utopia. It's okay. That's very helpful. An empowered community, if you will, a visionary community. So Daphne, I want to ask you a question I haven't asked before. You mentioned earlier that you have a grant that comes through DOD, from DOD and through D-Bed, and then to you guys. So I know there are other organizations in the constellation. Of course, D-Bed is not in isolation. It works for the governor and the legislature and so forth. And DOD certainly has its expectations. And finally, the Chamber of Commerce and the whole Military Affairs Committee. So my question is, you've talked about how you help local businesses, and you encourage them and place them, and give them heart and vision and expectations of a better life. What about these other organizations in your constellation? How do they help you do that, aside from the money? That's a great question. And I think it goes back to a lot of the comments that Christine made. We're all in this together. We're not seeing we're the experts on everything. These organizations, Chamber of Commerce, there's other small business, SBA, P-Tax, MBDA. There's a lot of resources out there, and we're not competing against them. I think we've leveraged all of the knowledge, experience, expertise, resources. How do they help you? How do they help? Everyone is an expert in their own areas. They all have their own resources and networks. And I think that we can all leverage that and pull it together to ultimately help and broaden our reach to the small business community here. Okay. We're into that part of the show where I ask you for last comments and questions or summarization or whatever you want to leave with our audience. Let's take you first, Daphne. What message would you like to leave? What would you like people to remember this show by? Well, first, thank you, Jay, for having us. I think the message I want to leave is that the Hawaii Defense Alliance is really looking at ways to increase small business opportunities in the defense economy here and that small businesses, while it can be complex and confusing, there's a lot of opportunities and that it's something that they shouldn't stay away from because they think it's too complex. Right. If I were one of them, I would come to you. You could make it less complex for me. And I was only kidding about how I can read. I can't. Somebody has to tell me. All right, Christine, your opportunity to leave some words with our listeners and viewers. Yeah. Thank you so much for allowing us to do this, Jay. And hopefully, if it just even reaches one or two companies, I think it's well worth it. I would just add, we're here to help. And my saying that I love and I really believe this, fundamentally, is that a rising tide lifts all boats. And we got to stick together. It's important. Yeah. And that goes for all of Hawaii, especially now. So where do I look? Is there a website you're going to point me to? There is. I believe it's HawaiiDefense.org, I think is the website. But if you just Google Hawaii Defense Economy Alliance, it'll come right up. And there's been a couple of really good stories that Hawaii Civil Beat has run with regards to the Hawaii Defense Alliance and just some real detailed information about it. Good for you. You're serving all of us, every single one. Thank you very much for coming around. Christine Lanning, Daphne Tangpave, really appreciate you on the show. We'll see you again soon. I hope. Thanks very much.