 So welcome. Thanks for joining us this afternoon and thank you Senator Sanders for making the time for this important conversation today and more so for all you do for Vermont Vermonters in general and as we will dive into deeply in this hour. All you do in service of our brave little state doing our part to mitigate and adapt to the intensifying global climate crisis. I'm Johanna Miller I lead the energy and climate program at the Vermont Natural Resources Council. One of the big privilege pieces of my job is helping to coordinate for months grassroots volunteer driven network of town energy committees under the V can umbrella I'm here with my colleague Ian, who you will hear from and we're here with three local energy committee leaders who you are also going to hear from momentarily but as you likely know they're about 120 local energy committees across the state that are working in partnership with their municipalities and neighbors and other partners to to turn the climate challenge we face into job creating health enhancing equity, improving opportunities so many of you on today's webinar are doing incredibly important work at the local level whether you're on an energy committee. If you're not on an energy committee. It's highly likely that you're joining us today because you recognize the moment we're in our collective global reliance on the combustion of fossil fuels is coming at a high cost to both people and the planet. The resulting consequences, largely borne by black, brown and frontline communities who have had little to do with creating the problem. And the problem is manifesting and increase droughts and intensifying floods and wildfires extreme heat and far more so we are facing some significant challenges can feel overwhelming at times but I feel deep gratitude to have real leaders and understanders and and hope in front of us. You know, today and in the coming weeks. I think there's a real opportunity to shift, and this could be a significant pivot point. We're going to hear momentarily from Senator Sanders about the work underway to advance a bipartisan infrastructure deal and an accompanying reconciliation package there was a big effort, a vote that move forward yesterday in the house, which I have no doubt the senator will give us details on in terms of advancing that bipartisan infrastructure bill and again the necessary reconciliation package that will go along with it. So, so I think the congressional, you know endeavors are complicated, and Senator Sanders is going to get into that and clarify what it all means from his leadership perch. But what is clear is that this is really a critical moment in time. It's unclear what's going to happen in the political landscape and next year's election will the house turn. I think the clients could not be more clear and the recent intergovernmental panel and climate change report really put even on it. We're at a precipice code read for humanity. This is the moment. It is also the biggest opportunity we have to change our trajectory and turn it into the job creating, you know, sort of the opportunity that it can be to reduce our collective reliance on fossil fuels so through at the federal level. We're going to hear momentarily from Senator Sanders about what that means and what we can do to support him in his leadership role. I'm at the state level you probably are also aware. This is a pivotal moment for us as well as we work. We've stood up a climate council that council is hard at work, working to craft and deliver an initial climate action plan by December 2021. That's going to outline the recommendations for now required progress so. But the point of it is, it's the synergy between the local leadership, the local work that we're going to hear about momentarily the state work the federal work and it all needs to to really come together and this is a moment so really quick overview of our flow of the event. I'm going to turn it over momentarily to hear from our good Senator, then we're going to hear briefly from three of her months. Very active energy committees about the hard work that they're doing on community solar weatherization vehicle electrification conservation and far more. We're going to have some time, we hope to have some q amp a with the good Senator. Many of you have submitted some very important questions we hope to get to. I'm going to turn it over to Senator Sanders I just wanted to say a sincere thank you to Senator Sanders and his team for making this event possible today, more so for all you do every day for Vermonters and in service of so many important climate justice, economic justice, social justice initiatives. Thank you. I also want to give a big shout out to our partners at VPurg for lending us the zoom webinar platform to host this conversation. I want to turn it over to our good Senator who is leading the charge in these conversations and on these pivotal issues with is deep privilege to have you represented us. Senator Sanders and we are grateful for what you do and we are looking forward to the conversation now. So we can figure out how we can partner and support you at this really pivotal moment. So Senator, thank you again and take it away. Thank you very much for the work you would do and let me thank all of the town energy committees I love the concept of town energy committees this is the kind of grassroots activism that we're going to need, not only from up around this country to deal what I think all of us recognize is an existential threat, not only to our state in our country but to the entire planet. You know, Joanna made the point and I don't want to go into great detail and repeating it. But it is not just what the IPCC said, and their code read alarm. By telling us that we have a very, very few years in which to cut carbon, or else we will see massive and permanent structural problems in our country and around the world irreparable problems. And I think we are all united in the understanding that we have a moral responsibility to make sure that the planet, the country that we leave our kids and future generations is one that is healthy. I mean, I just want you all to think about what we have observed this past summer, just this past summer, last month, last two months. We are in Siberia, Siberia of all places, turns out to be a larger fire than all the other fires combined smoke from that fire is going 3000 miles. The impact of that. You saw the horrible pictures in Greece of Greece on fire. You know what's going on in Oregon in California. And all of you know that this is unbelievable to me at quality in Vermont 3000 miles away from Oregon has been impacted by those fires but if you look at the moon you'll see that the tinge in the moon. That's from the forest fires. The flooding in Germany, and in Belgium historic flooding, Italy, just a few weeks ago experience the hottest day ever recorded in Europe. July, this past July was the hottest July ever recorded and drought and extreme weather disturbances are having a massive impact on agriculture we don't talk about that enough. It's not just fires fires farmers will not be able to produce the quality of food the quantity of food. They have historically been able to do in the United States and around the world and around the world that means increased hunger and turmoil. We are looking at rising sea levels, which in the not too distant future literally threatened the existence of New York City of Miami Charleston, other coastal cities, that is the reality that we are all looking at. That's the bad news so let me tell you the good news. Reasonably good news. And that is, we are right now working. Because I think all of you know, on a three and a half trillion dollar, what we call the reconciliation package and I won't bore you with all of the incredibly arcane. I don't know why it's absurd rules that exist in the Senate but it is a three and a half trillion dollar bill on top of the recently passed 550 billion so called bipartisan infrastructure bill that bill dealt mostly with traditional infrastructure such as water broadband are also some money into climate I think into improving our grid grid improvements, which certainly needs to be done. But the bill that we are working on the three and a half trillion dollar bill will not be bipartisan, sad to say, and it is said, we have no Republicans for the House not the Senate. So the Democratic caucus is going to have to do it alone. And while I think a lot of attention has been paid to the social implications of this legislation in extending the $300 child benefit that working class families are getting greatly expanding child care, and making pre K education as a two year olds, free universal, making community colleges, two year community colleges free, building massive amounts of low income and affordable housing, greatly expanding home health care expanding Medicare to cover dental eye glasses hearing aids that in addition to all of that, which is profoundly important as social legislation. This legislation will put more by far into addressing climate than any piece of legislation in the history of the country. And we're talking about many, many, many hundreds of billions of dollars. So let me talk a little bit. Now, this is still a work in progress. I have six or seven separate committees working on their part of the bills, but I can give you a general statement as to where we are heading. I can't give you all of the details because you know that is still being worked on I hope, by the way that we will have this done within a month, five weeks. There will be many billions of dollars going into energy efficiency and making our homes and buildings, much more energy efficient. And this is a real opportunity to create a whole lot of jobs. And one of the things that I want you all to think about we should be talking about in the discussion is the very serious problem of not having enough workers now to address many of the issues that we're talking about. And later on this afternoon literally almost after I'm off this program will be talking to some of the leaders and community colleges in Vermont and elsewhere about how we train the workforce that we need to do deal with climate deal with healthcare and many many other issues but keep that in the back of your head. And any ideas you have on that would be solely appreciate I just had a press event in Waterbury at the Cross and Brook School, which has been very active in sustainable energy. And we announced that we got a million dollars coming into the state for solar projects and schools and public buildings. And while there I was talking to some people in the solar industry, and they just don't have enough workers to do solar installation so we need to work on that. This legislation will in a variety of ways provide massive funding for wind solar and other sustainable energies. Probably the most unique and interesting aspect of what we're doing will be the electrification of transportation in America. And that means they will be very significant rebates to help working class middle class families be able to purchase electric vehicles. A whole lot of money going into research and development in terms of battery technology and so forth. That's an important part of what we're trying to do. How do we create a greener agriculture. In terms of climate, there will be major massive investments in that. There will be massive investments in climate resiliency and ecosystem recovery projects. A lot of money will go into water clean water environmental justice. We spend money, many billions, trying to deal with the crisis, our oceans and water systems are facing the acidification of the ocean. And one of the projects that I have been working on along with some leadership in the house in the Senate. And I'm very excited about it is what we call a civilian climate core. I think we're going to put about $30 billion into that over a five year period, which will mean that many hundreds of thousands of young people from all across this country will be able to get the training that they need to help us address the climate crises that we face that means, you know, going from weather rising homes to fighting forest fires, and to doing everything else in between. So I want you to understand that this bill is unique and unprecedented in what it will do for climate. What I hope we can go to now we're going to hear from some speakers. And you know my hope is that for months can play a leadership role in transforming our energy system and it is terribly important. We haven't done that yet. You know, if this state, and we just brought in $1.4 billion for transportation. We're going to bring a whole lot more money for climate over a period of years are we prepared do we, and I know Joanna was talking about working on priorities but are we prepared money large sums of money come into the state. What are we going to do with that money do we have the workforce to do it. And we need those projects lined up, I would hope very much that this state which has always been ahead of the curve and environmental issues in general will become a model for the rest of the country and maybe the world, and what we can do in transforming our energy systems and making us much more energy efficient so that is a little bit about what we are trying to do in Washington I hope that we will have this thing done. And a vote on the floor, four or five weeks. And, and then we're going to start dispensing the money and getting to work to start a safer planet. So, that's just what I wanted to say join. Thank you Senator Sanders for all you do and that update and we look forward to doing whatever we can to support you and your colleagues who are going to be bold enough and look at the opportunity in this transition through the lens of economic development and equity and justice, it is critically important and echoing your enthusiasm for the role of local leadership and the, the partnership of our communities in this transition. We're going to turn it over to a few local leaders are doing great work in their communities and very different ways to highlight some of the successes and priorities that they have and some of the challenges that they're encountering and how they work to make this transition do their part. I'm going to turn it over first to Jeff Dexter who's the chair of the Sunderland Energy Committee. Sunderland and Jeff and his leadership and their team there have been doing a lot of work in a variety of different arenas so Jeff, tell us a little bit more about what you are up to. Okay, thank you Joanna. Thank you all for this opportunity to share accomplishments and goals with other Vermonters that are who are concerned about climate change. And I have to say I'd be remiss if I didn't say being on a panel with Senator Sanders has got to be one of the real honors real highlights of my life. So thank you for for being with us Senator. The Energy Committee in Sunderland is relatively new. We've been doing this for about two years now. We've got six active members which is important anyone who's been on a committee can have people on name only but this group is a very good group, doing a lot of good things. It also includes I'm proud to say a local student who's a junior at Burton Burton Academy. Senator Sanders said early getting the youth involved is very, very important and that's one of our challenges and that's where we're, we're happy and both proud to have this person on our committee. Like a lot of committees we are the clearinghouse of information via our town web page and our Facebook page for information for local residents businesses other government groups. We're a partner in sharing that information about all of the various resources that are out there. And that's one of the great things. Yes, this is a daunting project. We all have in front of us but there are a great number of resources, and it's so important to get that information out so we whittle it down to the local level here and get that out to people constantly updating it. And we also use our forum to increase awareness on the issue of climate change because as you most as many of you do know, we have to sometimes prove that this is definitely real that the science does show us that this has been around for a while it has been made and it is something that now we have to deal with very quickly we cannot keep kicking the can down the road so, as I said this is part of our clearinghouse of information is also delving into that part of the issue. And some of the resources that we share with others are both hands on resources which I'll talk about in a second, and also the financial resources available through the state of Vermont efficiency Vermont as we all know they have a great number of programs, free mountain power utility in our area, and through the federal resources that are available, mostly the the income tax credits and rebates and things so things that we're planning in terms of hands on our seminars on e cars, e bikes and electric equipment for the garden. And a number of other committees around the town around the state I should say have done this and we want to now piggyback on what they're doing, and get our people coming to our town hall and viewing e cars viewing the e bikes and viewing the equipment to see just how much they can benefit from this. And we're looking into using that as an opportunity for local vendors car dealers bike dealers and landscape stores to sell their their products. As we all know a lot of this hinges on it being shown as an economic boost to people that it positively hits their pocketbooks and their wallets. And it's a way that, yes it's important to do for the community for the, for the state and for the world, but it also can benefit you financially be that as it may that is, you know, reality. The last thing I'll mention is how proud we are for our current project called window dressers. Many of you may know what that is. It's a main based group it's a nonprofit based in Maine. All the energy committees in Bennington County are involved with putting on two community builds as they call them in early November, one will be in Bennington, one will be in Arlington. And we all talk about the, the, the articles that we can read the preaching to the choir, the protest the petitions things like that. But to me this is a real rubber hits the road type project where we are going to help people affordably build window dressers to knock down on those drafts that we all feel in the winter from many of our windows and our, our aging housing stock. It will save people money cuts down on fuel use very important, and it makes those buildings much more comfortable and efficient. So as I said is something that a lot of energy committees throughout the state now in Vermont are doing it started in Maine they've built about 40,000 of these window inserts over the last 10 years, and we're proud to be a part of that. So that's a brief overview of what we're doing and the last thing I want to mention is some of the challenges that we face and, as Senator Sanders noted, the availability the feasibility of electric vehicles is extremely important, getting the waste down getting the range of mileage, much higher, dealing with public transport transportation vehicles and getting them out on the roads, and then the infrastructure that's going to handle all this specifically battery charging stations. I was glad that Senator Sanders noted how much money is involved with that in this upcoming bill and hopefully a lot of that does get down to the communities. The second thing is getting green energy companies into Vermont, Senator Sanders also mentioned that, possibly making Vermont the green energy capital of the world like Silicon Valley was to computer chips and Michigan was to cars back in the early part of the last century. There's no reason why this can't be an exciting beginning of having green energy the green economy, start here in Vermont and then spread throughout the nation and through the world. The last thing I'll mention again as I said, getting the youth involved. And I know the Vermont energy education program is very active in that we want to get more involved with our local school by teaching people, you know young people, just how important it is for them to get involved because I'll probably be long gone when this really hits the fan, but we really want to, you know, let them know they've got to pick up the ball at a young age and run with it. Okay, Jeff, let me interrupt you by saying what I, we want to keep remarks brief because I would like a little bit of a discussion. Let me do it. So, Jeff, thank you for all the great work you're doing at the being with us right now I think Joanna Allison is up next. Yeah, I'm going to turn it over to Ali Webster, she's a member of the Picham Energy Committee Picham is a very rural town and this committee has been focused on a wide variety of really important different strategies so Ali tell us a little bit briefly about what you are up to. Laura, thank you and it is such an honor to be here thank you so much to Senator Sanders and be can organizing. We have got a variety of things going on last year we launched a home energy audit campaign where you're able to provide subsidized energy audits at $50 cost to 20 of our households in town so that was through. That was through funding provided by by our town government and we knew that we have a number of energy burdened households in town that means they're paying a disproportionate amount of their income on their energy bills and we really wanted that energy audit campaign to be targeted towards those community managers that needed it most and we hope to would spur weatherization work in our older housing stock so I'm sort of similar to a lot of historic towns in Vermont but nearly half of the homes and Picham were built before 1940 so that's prime candidates for home energy efficiency so we really have been trying to drive home the message of increased comfort and health, along with saving money. So we had a great partnership with heat squad and neighbor works to make that possible they normally provide home energy audits for $150 and so thankfully we were able to get it from the town we were able to bring it down to $50 and heat squad was a great partner because there was not a conflict of interest with them providing doing the weatherization work after the fact they just come in they do a very comprehensive energy audit with the complete floor door test and then give the homeowner that priority list of tiered recommendations of how to take the next step and get their homes more comfortable and saving money. So we're up to 15 audits that we've been able to provide out of the 20 that we have and we still have a lot of work to do now is kind of the hard part of getting them to follow up on the recommendations they've received in these very comprehensive reports. And you know our original goal was to reach the most energy burdened community members in town and I think that that is also something where we have a lot of work to do, and having building that trust there and starting those conversations so we are working on that and we're trying to find more community partners that will help us reach those that need or want the resources as much as possible. And then on the to switch gears a little bit. So, on elect so on the, and the we work that we've been doing in town, we hosted an all electric future fair this summer and that was really to try to get people to imagine themselves with in the all electric future so we had neighbors and bring out mowers, electric bikes chainsaws you name it lawn equipment and then a variety of different electric vehicles for them to kind of get the look of feel of things and it was a great community building opportunity. People had a chance to ask questions, and think about what electric gear might make sense in their lives and we have a handful of EVs in town but we currently lack any public charging stations. And so that currently is just an issue of funding for us so we would love to be able to have a public charging station. But unfortunately it's not something that our budget can handle and there are programs that are out there but it seems like it's more geared towards larger businesses and not small groups like our nonprofits that might want to host one. So it's been a challenge for us as well. And then the other big project that we're hoping to get off the ground is an affordable community scale solar project so we're hoping to do 150 kw system that we have a wonderful family in town that is willing to share their land to support the system and the power would actually help go toward providing the lowering the electricity needs of our town buildings our fire department and potentially some of the nonprofits in town and then we could sign up 20 more households to be tapped into this local energy source. So we are we know that there's red tape to be aware of and we know that we have, we've got to get a lot of people on board, including PUC and the Green Mountain Power as well and again, equity we really want equity to be at the top in front of this year so we want to make sure that those households that want to sign up have the ability to tap into the local community source. And I think back for what, what's something that could happen at the state level but also is tied into federal policy and we need a renewable energy standard that's at 100% right now I think that's going to help drive more community scale local solar production, because currently it's a little over 50%. And we, you know, having it reach 75% by 2035 is not going to cut it. And we see that as one of the obstacles to having more community scale solar. And we also have two utilities in town we have both Green Mountain Power and Washington Electric. And that poses an issue too when some of our utilities are already labeling themselves as 100% renewable but much of that renewable power is coming from hydro big hydro projects like hydro Quebec. And so that doesn't encourage more local solar wind production in communities like ours. Okay, thank you very much Allison. Thank you Ali I think you're highlighting some of the themes that are also coming in Senator Sanders just so you know through the chat related to, you know how do we help these all volunteer networks of energy committees, you know, support them, build capacity at the level for implementing these projects. And I think some of the things that you're also highlighting earlier conversations that we're having in the Vermont Climate Council so I'm looking forward to this ongoing conversation with you all figuring out how do we partner with a good Senator and ideally a federal leadership to do more of what you all are doing and what Richard Boots and his team in Bristol are doing. Richard is a member of the Bristol Energy Committee and they've been collaborating with the acorn energy co op on a 500 kilowatt community solar project Richard tell us a little bit about that, and then we'll turn it back to the senator and we'll get into some questions but want to highlight and celebrate what you are doing there locally Richard. Yeah, and thank you, Senator. This is indeed a privilege. When I moved to Vermont, 10 years ago, one of my real thrills was to be able to vote for you for Senator. So, I'm real pleased to be here. Bristol has enough had an opportunity, and then our landfill was taken out of service and capped. It turns out that it's in a hollow. It's out of sight of homes and highways, and it's also on a south facing slope. And so our Bristol Energy Committee was very easily able to make this a preferred site for solar. And the chair of our energy program Sally Burrell began to contact community solar providers to see if there was any interest in setting up as large a field as possible in this site and through a process. We selected the acorn energy co op to build the 500 KW project. And one thing I would say, particularly to Allison as you're proceeding on this is that it really really helps to have experienced people guiding you acorn has done two of these community solar projects prior to ours. Successfully in Middlebury and down in Salisbury. We're the largest one so far at 500, but they know the process and how to get through the PUC and the federal regulators, and they have guided us very smoothly. In addition to that, the acorn is locally owned and Bristol residents have been guaranteed 40% of the solar available in this project right from the very beginning. And what that did was it really smoothed the transition through the select board process, and we managed to move through without any opposition whatsoever, partly because of the location and partly because it's a local energy project in addition to that. It's a kind of project that will enable people who cannot install solar panels on their house or property to participate because the solar panels are on the landfill. And that means that condo owners, and even renters can participate in this project because even if they move within the Green Mountain power area. They can transfer their credits. And that's a really, that's a really big draw on my street in Bristol. There are houses that cannot accept solar panels with any efficiency so it's a great project for those people. So, what were the problems we ran into. We started out subscribing actually right in the middle of the COVID pandemic, and the uncertainty economic uncertainty, and the, the kind of problems that people were having just coping with it with the pandemic certainly had an impact on acceptance. And I know it had an impact on the faith communities that we were hoping would sign up. Vermont Interfaith Power and Light and the Addison County climate action network, we're hoping to involve churches that often have very high energy bills to participate. Most of the churches were closed and we're very are very uncertain about their economics right now. And so I think that was a, that was a headwind that that we, that we face that nobody would have, would have predicted when we began this project. And as it's been kind of mentioned before, is Vermont is trying to move toward economy of scale in their solar projects. And what that's done is it has D emphasize the smaller community solar projects and so PUC and the state have allowed the solar adder to drop to what is now one cent. When I put my panels on eight years ago it was six cents. And at the end of this year it'll be zero. And I think that is a problem, but I'm suggesting that there might be a solution to that problem. And that is maybe divorcing ourselves from this kind of system. That's very complicated. And what I'm wondering about if we shouldn't use the model of buying an electric car. For example, my daughter bought an electric car on Monday. And there are so many incentives that the price of the car came down $15,000. It's unbelievable what's available right now. And the reason it's so easy is that these things are all sourced at the dealer and the manufacturer. And so, would it be possible, say at the federal level to subsidize the solar cost of the solar panels. And if we don't have the deco, the solar panels themselves are much less expensive and you don't have to have a regulatory. I'm going to jump in and interrupt you and apologize for that. But we have I think a number of questions out there and I've got some questions that I wanted to ask. I apologize. No problem. I wanted to move this thing along. Look, let me say to Ali. I'm a fan of the heat squad and all the great work they did in the Addison County, Rutland area. I think we got them a half a million dollars to continue to work up to the Northeast Kingdom. So I'll have some more resources. All right, it seems to me and I think, you know, Richard was making this point to Jeff as well. I think sometimes we complicate things too much and we don't have time. We don't have time for bureaucracy. You're going to have to move very, very quickly in this crisis and break through a lot of the crap that has existed for years. Now, Richard, you talk about incentives, they're going to be massive incentives. We're still working out the details. For electric cars. We are going to extend the 7500 which expired for a number of automobile manufacturers. That's going to be extended. Plus, if the car was made in America, probably another 2500 it's a union made more benefits on top of that so you're going to see electric cars very, very competitive competitive with internal combustion cars. If you think about EV charging stations, they have billions of dollars coming in to, you know, make sure that we can charge the cars and people can travel efficiently. I wanted to ask a question and anybody can answer it. My impression is and please tell me what I'm missing here and tell me if I'm wrong. I want to share with Richard, either way, this concern and I want people maybe let's stay on that issue are with the PUC making incentives for solar less and less and eventually nothing. I'm not clear that I understand why that is so when we are all talking about the need to aggressively move to sustainable energy. With solar up on our rooftops. Why is the PUC making that less attractive for people to do thoughts on that. Bernie, I had lunch during a weekend conference with a PUC member. And she told me that they felt that there had been enough incentives that solar didn't need them anymore and was fell out of my chair. I don't know if that's a total reason but that seemed to be solar is now mature. Was that the word you. Yeah, yeah. I think I don't understand that myself and I will talk to the PUC. We're talking about saving the planet. Yes, and not determining. You know, talking about an energy transition and not determining, you know, whether solar companies can make money or not make money. So I don't understand that and that's something I will look at. The other thing and Ali raised Ali raised this. We have brought in some money and I hope to bring it a lot lot more money for weatherization of homes. You talk, Ali and correct me if I'm wrong about an energy audit you go to a home, and you say you're wasting energy here there and the other place. And if you do a B and C, you can cut your energy costs by whatever 30% 40%. Is that what you're trying to do. Yeah they get a comprehensive report that says you need air sealing here you need insulation there you need to replace windows windows right. Okay, now the question is that I think you implied is this one thing to say that. So nothing to come up with the 15 or $20,000 that you need to do it. Right. Exactly. They're big ticket items. It's expensive to do the work and move forward. I do you have the impression and everybody else can jump in on this that if we worked on a system, which says that we're going to cut your fuel bill by whatever it may be. That's hypothetically say 50%. Then we're going to loan you the 15,000 or 20,000 you need to do the job, and you will pay it back by the savings that you work, you incurred through the weatherization for X number of years and then you're going to be able to save money. Is that an approach that you think people would respond to. Yeah, I absolutely think so. Yeah, it's it's it comes down to an economic issue for people and that's an innovative way to go about, you know, allowing them to have the money to do it. So you're not going to be spending any more than you were spending and after you pay it back, pay the loan back at a very low interest rate. You're going to be benefiting from the savings that makes sense to people. Ernie, what if, what if they paid it back in such a way that they gained a little bit right away. I think that's right. I think that's exactly right Richard. Yeah, that sounds like the pay as you save model which I think could really work I know that there was a report that came out from the Center for Research and Public Policy that showed about the people were less interested in financing these projects and they would rather pay out of pocket for them so I think that's also part of the issue, especially when we're trying to reach energy burdened households and I think personally our experience it would be more successful if we could say, we know the homes are old and this is old housing stock pre 1940s everybody needs insulation everybody needs air sealing the money should be going directly to fund those projects off the ground maybe with an audit without an object we know it needs to be done. Okay, and you can come in the beauty of this is I think everybody has said we create a lot of jobs, right doing that you save people money you cut carbon emissions. If that's not a win win win situation I'm not quite sure what is. I can also say that I am concerned I shared a Richards. You know, as I mentioned earlier about disincentivizing so that we intend to bring in. We've got a project called a revolving loan rooftop solar project, which does exactly the same thing as the weatherization program I talked about. We will lend you the money. You will pay it back at no higher cost, maybe less than you were previously paying on your electric bill. And at the end of 10 years, you're going to be able to cut your electric cost. You know you'll have it all paid back, and you're going to get more or less free electricity. Yeah. That makes sense to people. Yeah. Yes. Okay, Joanna I think some questions I've been coming in am I right. Senator Sanders there are so many questions lots of good ideas, we want to get to so many of them. Then we're going to follow up Ian take away with the questions that came in via the Google chat first and then some of these. Thank you very much and thank you for being with us Senator and folks please do keep those questions coming in. The first one that we had came up from a lot of folks is what can room honors, and from our perspective organizations like the NRC, due to help ensure that the historic reconciliation bill the build better build back better active passes, or as Ryan from Sharon put it, Bernie how can we help you help all of us. Yeah. Thank you very much. I will be going on Friday to Indiana Saturday to Michigan and Sunday to Iowa to do just that. Those are in Iowa and Indiana, not Michigan. You have four Republican senators who have chosen not to support the package. Look, you know in Vermont, Senator Lee and Congressman Welch are strongly supportive of what we're trying to do here. But if you can reach out to friends around the country. Where there are Republican senators and maybe more conservative Democratic senators. That would be great. You know, as of now we have no Republican support, and I think we have to make the case. And I think that whatever change is an existential threat, and that the United States government has got to lead the world, and I know that you all know what complicates what we are trying to do is this is not an American issue, the global issue. And China is significantly worse than that of the wheel. And we're not going to have success unless we bring China and Russia and Pakistan and India and the other heavy emitters into the process but we can lead the world. Let's talk to the Chinese ambassador a few days ago and you know, it's just terribly important that the major emitters of the world cooperate. All right, what else we got joined up was a good question. Another one here Senator from Dan in Burlington. How do we ensure that investments take into account equity and inclusion and our true just transition investments and following on on that Liz asks, how do we ensure that a just transition is true for working people, including provisions for good union jobs. Good. You'll be happy you'll be happy to know that you know throughout this proposal and the president has been very strong about this. Not not just jobs, but we want good paying jobs and when possible we want union jobs I'm just talking as I mentioned earlier in water very today to a guy who is involved in a solar installation. He tells me that right now they don't have enough workers, they are paying starting salaries at 20 bucks an hour, plus benefits. But the point is, is well taken we want these jobs to be well paying and union jobs, and obviously look when you talk about having working families benefit from this. I mean, like, you all know this I mean I'm talking to the choir here. Everybody has got to be involved what does it matter if you're rich or whether you're poor. Everybody has got to be involved in saving energy and in, you know, I think we would agree and producing energy. So, we are working on one project and there are many in there, this is one that I've introduced as I mentioned revolving long fun. So that would say it would help homeowners be able to get solar on their roofs get the down payment and pay it off over years at low interest rates. And also provide for I think somebody mentioned maybe I don't know is Jeff or was somebody Allison or Richard, a community based solar as well. Right so if I'm a rector I may not be able to put a solar panel, although how you deal with landlords and make it attractive to them to do it is another issue. Yeah. This is one where everybody has got a benefit and, you know, we got to become more efficient and produce electricity so it's cross the board. Thank you senator Tom from Burlington would like to know. How can we get the major polluters who have knowingly caused the climate crisis to help pay for the cleanup and building on that Susan from Randolph asks that since folks who cause the most climate damage we're also some of the biggest climate deniers. How can we help them pay for the expenses of some of the climate related tragedies that they are culpable for creating the Tom and Susan have asked a very good question, and I share their concern. Look, I think we all know in life, people make mistakes, I make mistakes you make mistakes, and we do things that later on we learn was a mistake. But in terms of some of the major fossil fuel players. It is not a situation where they just learn yesterday. Oh my God, we didn't know. The carbon emissions causes climate. I think all of you are familiar with some of the work done I think by pro public or and others, revealing that are getting the documents from Exxon mobile, where they're scientists, some of their leading scientists decades ago I think somebody can correct me if wrong back in the 70s. Yeah. In the 70s was saying, Hey, you know what what we are doing is kind of warm the planet with incredible damage that's like, and Exxon mobile and other deniers put millions of dollars, trying to up the skate the issue and lie about the bottom line is I agree with the question I'm on a bill introduced by Senator Markey I think of Massachusetts, which would find them, which would demand exactly I think we're talking about $500 billion. These guys have caused the problem. They made money by causing the problem. And they got to pay for that. I mean, this is really criminal activity in my in my mind. It is all the difference in the world about not knowing what you're doing. We can forgive ignorance. But when they knew what they were doing, making money off of that. That is a crime. They got to pay in my view. We did that with the tobacco companies. Exactly. That is the analogy. Joanna. Any other questions? A few more. We'll get to as many as we can here. Folks being municipal energy committees are obviously interested in how any prospective federal funding might get down to the town level. And I think that asks if the bill can fund grants for schools and towns and state buildings for things like solar and battery storage EV chargers and related to that Darren from Essex Junction wants to know how will that funding actually be structured to make it easy for municipalities to obtain and use it. All right. I don't know all the answers to that. And there are a number of different provisions. But we are trying, if I have anything to say about it, just does anything in the world that I hate is complexity and bureaucracy. We are trying to make this stuff simple. As I mentioned earlier in terms of electric automobiles. The goal here is that I think we are there is for people to get their rebates at point to sell. You can get it, you know, as a tax rebate, but you get it right there. Now then you kind of deal with the companies to make sure the company is not ripping off people raising prices, etc, etc. But that would be fairly simple. I think by and large, most of the programs and I don't know that we can do it too differently. There will be money is going through the states. And if the money goes through the states and I very much want to see the town energy committees play an active role. It will, you know, you're not going to have to travel to Washington to deal with the Washington bureaucracy, you can deal with Montelia which should be a lot easier. But the goal obviously would be to get the money. I just dealt with the state this morning we we're going to get a million dollars solar panels for schools and public buildings. And you know I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that money gets an easy process people apply, get the money out let's do it. But I think a lot of money will be going into maybe larger cities into the states to give people the opportunity to get their hands on that money and get it into the communities. Senator will try to fit a few more questions in here Joey feel free to chime in if and when we need to pivot on this question from guy from Saxons River pertains to kind of meeting the upfront cost of many of the things that we talk about for climate solutions. His example is weatherization but I think this could be applied to everything from, you know, solar panels to electric vehicles when he asked. You know, up front costs for weatherization projects and you know climate projects generally are a huge impediment for folks to move forward and how will this 3.5 trillion dollars help. Well that's exactly what I was talking about I agree with going. And that is the impediment. And what we have got to do again in a simple way. I remember many years ago, the low income you're all familiar with the low income weatherization program which in Vermont does a good job, but they are underfunded and we want to expand that we want to expand similar type programs but I remember going to a house in Barry, an old house. And it had been weatherized to old sisters were living in their 80s 90s, whatever. And they their elect their fuel bill was cut in half. The home was made more comfortable that fuel bill was cut in half. So I think what we have got to do, because upfront for working families lower income families is the impediment. And they will get the money to them in either grants or low interest loans depending on their income, and they will repay it through the savings that they are incurring to weatherization or the production of electricity. But that is that is exactly what I'm talking about that is to me the most important thing. People understand that they're wasting energy they don't have the money to do the efficiency work of the weatherization work that they need. We got to get them that money, got to get that work done, and it can be paid back, or if they're lowering come, there will be grants to do it. Appreciate that center and definitely I think the interest in equity and ensuring that the transition is in fact just and that won't come folks aren't left behind is something that folks in this network are very interested in. I think what I'll make our final question before closing remarks is, I think something that people are asking more and more as things like the IPCC report come out that really spell out just how dire the climate crisis is. And I think people would love to hear your thoughts on, you know, can what Vermont does this small little state to address climate change actually make a difference. Yes. Look, I mean, again, you know, we're all preaching to the choir, we would not be on this webcam. If we didn't understand the dire nature of the climate crisis. And, you know, I think that not just through the work of activists and organizations, but because people are now seeing things with their own eyes. I mean, when you look at what goes on in Oregon or California or Europe or Siberia, you can't deny this, this terrible reality. What is very difficult, I fear and this will be our job is to make clear the urgency of the moment. And this is not something that we have decades to do, we have got to do it and do it now. And we have got to bring, you know, you know, China and other countries into this process. We are in this, you know, we are all in this together, and the world is in it together and you ask about what Vermont can do will look. The truth of the matter is in a world which is getting smaller and smaller in a world in which, you know, we are communicating via zoom and it's going on a million times a day. The innovative work that a small state does if Vermont can show real real progress in all of the areas that we've talked about, in weatherization, in transportation, in creating solar and wind and other forms of sustainable energy. And if we can show that up. Trust me people all over the world all over the country will be saying hey look Vermont did that. Let's learn something just as we have got to learn from the good things that other folks in America and around the world are doing. It is a small world in that sense. The goal is to steal everybody's good ideas getting climate work. We've got to be very aggressive about that so it would give me nothing more than I know I speak for all of you greater satisfaction, and then our small state leads the country and becomes a model for what states can be doing. We've got to prevail on our legislature on the governor on the PC. That there is a crisis and we got to be aggressive about it, but I am at least happy to tell you that with a little bit of luck. There is some significant developments taking place in Washington and if we can pass this damn thing of which I am working night and day. I want to give you guys the resources to start making the changes that we need. Senator Sanders, we are with you, we are here to support you in these next several weeks because we, I think this is it like this is a moment, I feel like this is our moment to seize it so we look forward to partnering with you there are so many more good comments we will save what is in the chat and share them with your team so that you hear the comments you see and read those comments as you are able, and we very much appreciate your leadership you working tirelessly. We hear you on what we can do and we're going to partner as we can and deep gratitude there's a huge opportunity and certainly a moral obligation so. John, my thanks to you and all the great work that the town committees are doing to all of you were on the panel today. Thank you for watching. All right, we're in this thing together. Yes, we are. Okay, thank you all very much.