 Well, good morning. Good afternoon, or good evening, whatever you're listening. This is Davisville on KDRT LP 95.7 FM in Davis, California We live at KDRT.org online. I'm Bill Buchanan. I thank you for tuning in Well the Palms Playhouse in Winters is a fabled place for music. It started in a barn in South Davis in 1975 moved to downtown Winters in 2002 and Performers over the years have ranged from Taj Mahal and Steven Stills to Dar Williams local musicians like Mumbo Gumbo and many many more Well this month the Palms sent a message to its customers and friends known as the fronds of the Palms That it was going on indefinite hiatus because of the pandemic If that means the Palms might reopen someday or might not or anything in between. Well, any of that is news My guest today is Nora Carey who bought the Palms in 2016 with Andrew Friday I'm glad to welcome her back to the show We last talked with her when she and Andrew acquired the Palms and again that was in 2016 Nora. Thank you for joining us today My pleasure. I'm glad to be here. I should say we're doing this one like all the others lately by zoom So if you hear straight it's stray random electronic noises along the way. That's just zoom listening or Noises from my children in the background. Oh, that's true. That's true. All these things are part of the soundscape these days I do want to start by saying I was sorry to read about the hiatus I mean, I guess I can't say I was surprised, you know indoor concerts haven't been allowed for a long time now I'm wondering could you tell us more about what you mean by indefinite hiatus? Sure? Yeah, so We are not renewing our lease at the Winner's Opera House and That's primarily primarily because while our landlords have been generous in giving us a couple of months rent-free They were expecting us to pay rent throughout the Time that we weren't going to be able to offer concerts and it just wasn't financially feasible for us to continue if If there were a known end date You know if we knew that the pandemic was going to last another year or something like that I think we could probably do some fundraising and cover the rent, but with really no and insight It didn't seem right to to ask folks to pony up for for our rent especially since there are so many other really Worthy causes right now, you know people are hungry and jobless and Not that music is not important But it just didn't seem right to to ask for help when when we just don't know how long this is going to keep going so Removing out of the building, but the Palms as an entity doesn't necessarily have to to be done Music is always going to be important. We're always going to strive to to bring it into our community in some form, you know, whether that's through supporting programs in winters or beyond Or putting on outdoor concerts or you know, I I really personally want to keep Doing something with music in the community whether that's under the label of the Palms or not Okay, so so the Palms will no longer exist at that location, you know barring some unexpected change right, but the Palms as sort of a Brand or a moniker might continue Maybe at a physical location and but maybe more as sort of a sponsor of events Yeah, you know, I think that it remains to be seen what it's going to look like And I think that largely depends on how long the pandemic lasts and sort of what form are Our new normal takes when this is all done my parents have both been really active in the winners friends of the library here in town and they have put on a summer concert series at the in the Rotary Park at the gazebo every summer to benefit the friends of the library and One thought we've been kind of bouncing around is whether we would want to Extend the concert series beyond the month of July as it as it has been in the past and maybe You know put on a concert a week all summer and that could be partly sponsored by the Palms or or under the name the Palms or maybe house concerts or or traveling concerts or you know, I'm Keeping music in the community is my primary focus. I don't know how it's going to happen exactly, but you know I should mention you referred to your parents. You grew up in winners and I did you have lots of roots there And so it gives some meaning to your answer is what I mean to say Yeah, my dad's in position and a Music teacher he taught music in the kindergarten here for close to 20 years. I grew up with a lot of music in the home I married into another musical family my husband's parents owned a 16-piece big band for close to 20 years and Yeah, music is a really big part of our lives So some version of the Palms will continue at least we can hope yeah Wow, that's still a kind of big news that you know You'd be moving out of there and of course when the Palms this is before you bought it but when it moved from Davis to Winters 18 years ago now the idea of the physical location of it was was a big part of it because People have loved the Palms over the years. So if they know it, you know, it has a reputation I think that goes far beyond this region. That's one of the ways has been able to get these Really good musicians some very famous and some not some locally famous to play there Because the Palms has always been known as a good venue for that, right? So the idea that the physical location is ending That's takes a moment to digest. I guess it's true. Although I think you know people were equally Pretty shocked and upset when the Palms moved out of the barn. I think some people really thought it would never be the same I still have people say, you know, I loved the Palms when it was the barn and sure I'll keep coming in Winters, but it's you know, it'll never be the same Okay, well hard. I Have to add a personal note there because I'm one of those people who went to the Palms in Davis And I really liked it there, but I like it also where it's been in Winters I I think you and then Dave Fleming before you and then of course going back to Linda McDonough who started it all It's been a variety of people who have had a real sense of what's special about the Palms And so maybe I take your point there that if some of that spirit can continue in some new form Well, that's still significant. Yeah, I think so too. We have to be able to adapt So how are you all doing you and Andrew and everybody else who's who's helped the Palms keep going? I mean, you're not alone in having a small business that's just been hammered by this It hasn't been easy like I said before I have kids. I have two young kids at home. They've been struggling and so we've been struggling along with them My husband's a math teacher and hasn't had a lot of work recently. He's a on the university level So we've just been at home. We've been enjoying Planting a great garden and doing a lot of cooking and some adventures very close to home and trying to make the best of it Andrew has similarly not had a super easy time of it He's gotten really involved in the black lives matter movement in Sacramento has been organizing protests and And actually has been helping with some of the audio needs of the protests speakers and purification So, yeah, I think we're trying to make the best of a really rough situation and we really feel for all the other small businesses out there Yeah, that's And you said that towards the start of the interview to which which I thought your points well taken. There's there's a lot of Suffering and dislocation occurring right now, you know, the music obviously is still important But it's it's part of a wide range of things I wanted to ask you if your last concert then was in March, right at the location, right? Yeah, March 7th and Who was playing that night? It was the Carolyn stills Combo Carolyn Sills is a great singer and guitar player from Santa Cruz Santa Cruz area And she plays her own original music and then she also does this really great Patsy Klein special So this was the Patsy Klein Spectacular that she's put on a number of times at the Palms. I was gonna say you've that's one of your repeat performers there Yeah That night did anyone have any sense that that might be the last show? I mean the pandemic was starting to crowd in at that point, right? So that was a really unusual time. We had had the show the previous night was cancelled I think a lot of it a lot of the Sentiment in the room on those early nights in March depended on the sort of demographics of the audience shows with older audiences in Early March were really sparsely attended and a lot of people emailed us ahead of time asking sort of what we were doing in response to the pandemic and then certain shows didn't really feel much different from an average night, but I Was already by early March communicating with bands and booking agents for upcoming shows sort of asking What are we doing here? Are we gonna try to postpone this? Are we gonna try to keep going and I got a range of answers and so I think I Didn't necessarily know that that show on the 7th was going to be the last one, but It was you know at least going to be one of the last I Was really pushing to postpone or cancel shows and admittedly I mean Understandably some bands were resistant because of course it's their livelihood and They don't want to have to Put a hold on that. Yeah. Well, and I think it's hard to remember in some respects For me anyway what I was thinking in March about the pandemic But what I recall is that we all were kind of thinking you're hoping it might not Last as long as it has which in hindsight seems naive at least to me But I remember thinking that at the time that you know, well, maybe Maybe things will be better by summer or fall. Yeah, we postponed a lot of our spring dates to the summer Thinking oh, yeah by June will be fine and then you know May comes around and we have another round of emails Like well, maybe we'll push these to the fall and now it's just it's really an open-ended Question we don't we don't know yeah, what are you what are you hearing from the musicians overall as you say? It's you know, it's this is their livelihood to of course if they don't have venues to perform Yeah Well, I'm in communication closely with several musicians who've performed here and just other friends of mine who make their lives as touring musicians and It's been really hard. You know, I think a lot of musicians live paycheck to paycheck as it is some of them have found some success with online streaming With, you know donation based concerts or they've set up Patreon accounts where people can support them with monthly donations and Some musicians who have families have enjoyed not being on the road I think you know getting to spend more time at home has been really special, but it is all tinged with this sadness and insecurity about How long this is gonna last how long they can keep up the online shows? I've also talked to several sound engineers for whom this is, you know, huge and devastating and and they just feel like What's happening to their craft now if everybody's doing online shows they don't need sound engineers anymore and Yeah, it's scary for everybody in the business Yeah, I can say doing this show. I sure miss my sound engineer Yeah, doing this over zoom is uh, and this is actually a comment it's a little off the mark maybe but I remember discussing with a photographer when Digital photography made it much easier to improve the average quality of a photo But he made the point that that meant that you didn't you know, you raised the average but you lowered the best expression I don't know if I'm saying this quite as cleanly as I'd like to but no I understand and and it's it's a similar thing I think you know a musical performance where you've got at a good venue It's built for that with engineers and performers that are doing it You have the potential for a really wonderful peak experience and it's just not the same if it's you know mediated by by zoom It's true and it's also been a big learning curve for a lot of people trying to Figure out how to get the best sound quality in their bedrooms Yeah, I sing in a Local chorus and early on we were trying to figure out how to somehow have practice over zoom And we soon realized that that was just not possible, you know latency issues and everybody was trying to figure out their own situation at home and it just There's so many layers of technology over the top of the the music that it it kind of loses the joy It was quick station ID. This is Davisville on KD RT LP 95.7 FM in Davis, California I'm Bill Buchanan and my guest today is Nora Kerry Who is one of the two owners of the Palms in Winters if the Palms Playhouse? It's a concert venue among other things and it's on an indefinite hiatus Which Nora's telling us means that they won't be returning to that location But that's something of the Palms may continue So you've run the show for a few years. I wonder you must have had some interesting moments in that time Maybe particularly satisfying shows. I've seen a couple shows. I saw Peter Case there I guess it was a year ago that I thought was a typically wonderful Palms show He you know was comfortable and he was in good form and anyway, I'm wondering if you have a couple of moments from from running the Palms That might just sort of stand out for you Sure. Yeah, there are a lot, but a Few really big memorable shows for me were When we had trio dark Holly come They are a group from Molly who Released an album a few years ago with the Kronos quartet and they were touring with Kronos and then they had the opportunity to put on a few shows Without the quartet and we got to have them and it was so powerful Just their their whole presence on stage was was really mesmerizing Yeah, that was a lovely show We had we started this very Low-key sort of experimental Sunday afternoon jazz series really just because Well, I'm married to a jazz musician. My dad's a jazz musician. They actually Started playing in a band together just a couple months after I started dating my husband and You know, I think they and their friends just kind of wanted a venue to Put on some really relaxed shows, but then it gained momentum. We ended up having this Swiss Jazz pianist Nick Barch come with his group Ronan and that was one of the most How do I say this the room was transformed in a way that I'm not sure it had ever been Before at least under my watch. They had a lighting director with them Who despite it being three o'clock in the afternoon just transformed the room to be this Other worldly space the band were all in black and the lighting was really Severe and the the entire rest of the room was really dark. And so you were just in this Zone and the music was amazing. I'm sorry. I missed that just listening to you describe that that really sounds like Not your usual experience not our usual experience. We really lucked out and then I'll just mention one more We had hubby Jenkins come on two different occasions he had previously been in the Carolina chocolate drops and then sort of ventured off as a solo performer and he just Radiated cool calm and collected put the audience at ease had great banter It's just a solo show and I think everybody just loved having him he interspersed songs with Chapters from a kids choose your own adventure mystery book and Pulled the audience about you know should be turn left or right at the top of the stairs, you know And we so we were all sort of involved in the story as it unfolded and that was just great It was really fun. It must have been satisfying to be able to help shows like that happen. Yeah, I'm proud of that And and I is it is that part of what you want to have continued in whatever form the poem stakes? Definitely I Think it's okay to mention her on air We got a lot of help and support from Kate Ladish who was a longtime volunteer She started volunteering with the Palms right around the time that it moved to winters and over the years she's been lighting director publicist merch seller You know just all around helpful person and she gave us a lot of support and direction early on about Sort of the culture of the Palms and how to help it continue and also technical information about how to communicate with bands and You know how to set up the show we were Clueless when we started to be honest Well, it was a labor of love wasn't it when you and Andrew bought it. It really was. Yeah. Yeah You know Dave Fleming had it and he was you know wanting to call it a career and You know a place like the Palms particularly to the people who developed real affection for it Which I imagine includes the musicians, you know It has those moments in its story They're like those hinge moments, you know Like is this the end of it and Davis it had to leave because development was crowding in on the barn, right? And and so it landed in winners and then Dave needs to leave and then you and Andrew stepped up to get it You know the the pandemic of course has walloped so many things, right? But something that Kate said that that really stuck with me that that I hope to continue in some form was she was talking about The the shows where everything clicks you just You do all this work. There's this real scramble at the beginning You don't know if the show is gonna start on time. You don't know if you know The audience is gonna be happy or if the sound's gonna work out and then Not every show but a lot of shows There's this moment early on where you can just sit back and go. Yeah We pulled it off and that is the the magical feeling that I hope to continue in some form Yeah, and that's partly the magic of music, right? I mean music is Kind of an emotional language. Yeah, and so if you are Watching a really good performance and partly that's matter of matter of individual taste you know, if you like folk or jazz or what have you but if it's a good performance and Yeah, everything clicks That's really why people go to shows, right? I mean and listen as opposed to just have it in the background Right, there's something that happens. That's really very meaningful. Yeah, and you know under certain circumstances I think you can probably have that when you put on an album at home and Sit down and listen, but it's it's a different thing when you're in the room. There's there's some buzz between the the people on stage and the people in the chairs and everybody can feel it you know as a Actually, no, I forget was was the palms Or is it a nonprofit or were you set up as a profit business? Well, it's not a nonprofit And there was no profit so Well, I was wondering about but what I what I was leading to the question was, you know with the pandemic There were a variety of programs that were designed to to help small businesses Carry on for at least a while. Yeah, and I'm wondering was that useful to you and to Andrew Well, so there were a couple of programs offered through the small business administration But they were understandably primarily geared toward people on payroll helping businesses retain their employees and We have had people on payroll pretty consistently Throughout our time as owners, but only a couple people at a time But it just so happened that we didn't have anybody on payroll when the pandemic started. We were just in between Employees and so we weren't really able to take advantage of most of those programs So so you weren't you and Andrew then weren't employed by the poems We were not on payroll. No But it's remarkable you I'm sure I can only imagine the hours that you've all put into it. Yes, and to think that it was You essentially weren't getting any You know any paycheck for it and as you said there was no profit, right? Yeah, it's funny early on after I told my kids that the poems was not gonna continue my younger son Who's four said so maybe this time you could get a job where they pay you instead of you pay them Well, yeah, that's the honesty of a child, right? But I suppose, you know, you were after something I don't want to romanticize it. It's hard. It's hard work It's hard work, you know, but but you were after something different forms of payment. Definitely. Yeah, I I didn't have any Impression that this was gonna be a big moneymaker So a couple questions near the end, I guess one is and you mentioned this at the front a little there's there's a lot of places that are Supporting music people who hear this and think, you know, they want to help Where where can they look to help if what they want to do is help music keep good live music keep going That's a great question. Well, there are a couple of organizations that are working nationally and more locally to To try to get some federal support for independent music venues There's an organization called Niva national independent venue association, I think They've got a great website you can sign up for their emails if you want to and you can donate and they're trying to get Some sort of federal support package, so they're a really great one that's doing some work currently, but then I would say Sort of bigger picture find a venue that you love. That's a nonprofit and Sign up for a membership if you haven't We got a lot of great support and advice early on from the freight and salvage in Berkeley They're a nonprofit they could really use your help I imagine a lot of people would put you on that list nor they'd want to help you and Andrew and the poems We have gotten a lot of very generous offers of support and people who say that if we Want to start back up again that they'll help in any way they can We really appreciate it and I feel badly that we Aren't able to take people up on that right now To be honest, there's a burnout factor We were already, you know Struggling to keep our heads above water as are many other venues before the pandemic and this just Added such a another layer of difficulty that I feel like I need to just kind of take a breather So I hope that some of that support will still be there if we you know if we pop up again in a year or two years and Want to start something up. So does the poem still continue as an organization? So I'm actually exploring what it would take to become a nonprofit Okay, that's one possible outcome and If not, it'll just be I'm not sure exactly what the you know, the tax structure will be but an LLC or something like that that That could continue just indefinitely until we decide to do something with it Okay, and so so but the point then is there will be some entity that continues and I think that matters because the palms is at another one of its Junctions, that's right. Yeah, and if there's still an entity that continues and still an interest in continuing it then maybe it returns someday Yeah, um as long as people can keep an open mind about what that might look like. Yeah, okay Well, Nora, thank you very much for talking with us and I really appreciate your candor about all this It was a pleasure. Thank you And people you've got a facebook page and you'll keep your mailing list going the the palms right? So, okay, so all people can find that on google. Well, thank you. Nora very much. Thanks bill Uh, we've been talking with nor carry co-owner of the palms in winters. Uh, I am bill Buchanan. This is davis phil on kdrt Thank you for listening