 Well, welcome back to the drought topic sessions with the South Dakota grassland coalition everyone I'm sitting here next to Jim fall stick who for many Introduction is not needed, but a wealth of experience a mentor and and someone who has an approach to ranching and farming that is One that has proved well for a for a full career for him and the generation behind him and Even more that I'll just ask him to share with you now just kind of as an intro Thanks, Tants and thanks to you and and RCS for spearheading the series on drought and Obviously, it's important right now. Hopefully the the drought breaks, but there'll be another one right behind it And I suspect for some even yet this year Right now it looks like for all of us So I'm I'm Jim fall stick My wife Carol and I operate daybreak ranch We have the next two generations involved as well with Jackie and Adam Roth my son-in-law and daughter and Their kids their son Caleb is very active in in the ranch and involved and interested So hopefully we have some future to our operation, which is another important reason why we need to be Sustainable and profitable and and stay in business. So Our we bought the ranch from my parents January 1 1973 and In 1976 for those of you who live in eastern South Dakota. We had the worst Drought that many compared even worse than the 1930s the the old-timers my uncles and stuff that we're operating then We went from a cow herd of about 250 down to 78 young ones Two and three-year-old heifers basically we sold our yearling heifers We put up zero hay that year. We grazed our road ditches. We grazed everything that was back in the days when I Was under the impression you fed your way through the the wintertime instead of Grazing year around which is our goal now So we needed feed we would have been sure to feed even in a wet year Because we fed through the winter So we went from 250 to 78 head of young cows Had zero hay we bought hay in western South Dakota because believe it or not. It was way wetter in south in western South Dakota lemon Lodgepole North of lost Gordon, Nebraska In the black hills were all sources we could buy hay very unusual a lot of times. It's the other way around but not that year so We were kind up against the law financially just starting We bought the entire ranch livestock equipment land the whole ball of wax in in 1973 and and So we were financially on the ropes and and our factory was basically gone So I think one of the important things that that this emphasizes is And I call it life after cows if you will because that was our sole Income source at that time we found out in a hurry. That's a pretty dangerous situation and Probably one of the best lessons learned when it when it comes to drowth planning and and maybe right now We ought to clarify that we're in a drowth series With the grassland coalition, but perhaps we really should call it disaster planning because we've been through 120 inches of snow fire Grasshoppers can be an issue. So I think we need to look at this from a ranch protection standpoint from all disasters not just drowth, but but just To clarify that We are talking about drowth at this time So one of the things we learned the next year 1977 It was amazing how with moisture the grasslands responded again, and I think it was a reflection even though We've done a lot since then with soil health. We were managing our pastures to keep some some litter on the on the ground and Some standing residue. There wasn't any left after 1976 but at 77 it still responded because we'd taken care of the resources before that So what do we do? You know the factory's gone as I referred to life after cows and What we did is went out and botch bought a bunch of youths And got into the sheep business and I give credit to the sheep business for us being in business today That was at a time when when it was easy To get into sheep. There was a lot more sheep numbers in South Dakota They were a lot easier to work with they were cheaper to buy than cows Plus you had that dividend on their back and wool which was pretty valuable back in those days So you could lose the lambs off of a you and still pay her her years Wages and so that was one thing we did Interestingly I Don't know whether there was a pheasant left on the place after that year very few deer It was obvious what had happened to the wildlife populations because of that severe year And I'll get into a little bit later here how changing our operation has Has altered wildlife and the benefits as well So anyhow, we had a cheap It turned into a very profitable enterprise I have told a number of groups and presentations over the years that the sheep kept us in the cattle business One of the things that I didn't do that if I had to do it over again is I would immediately start custom grazing Some yearlings yearling steers or heifers. We didn't do that till a little later my point is diversity is a huge part of drought planning and I don't care whether it's Your your plant mix If you've done some seedings if you if you do have farm ground again rotations diversity diversity diversity and One of the things we did to help drought proof our ranch is to add Some of we put some of the marginal farm ground into warm season native grass plantings and boy That has really helped us with available forage in the summer unless you're on a year like 1976 nothing would have done any good that year But we've been through a number of droughts since that our warm season grasses our diversity in classes of livestock And ultimately what's this all about? Well being profitable and staying in the ranching business. So Some of we We run some of our own yearlings. We custom graze yearlings We run a custom breeding heifer herd All with flexibility Any of our our herd agreements custom grazing agreements with the livestock owners is that With a two-week notice those Those that class of livestock that herd needs to leave the operation. We've already And and to put clarity with when this is being taped. Uh, this is uh, april 8th 2022 So we are Basically three weeks from the 1st of may which is one of our our trigger dates fact our last trigger date And and we've already given notice to The custom grazers that those cattle potentially have to leave they they've been noticed We we haven't given up because Uh, not only do we know but sdsu has documented on our ranch That the moisture we have and receive in april is a direct correlation With how much grass we produce and ultimately how many pounds of beef We we produce Absolutely the month april is the most important in our operation and every operation and location is different So that's not a blanket statement for everybody, but but a mighty important one So we got till may one and they've they've assured us that That they're willing to play the waiting game right with us Until the end of may I haven't given up on this year yet And that's why we haven't dispersed livestock to the degree that that we Maybe should or could or will Uh, but we want to want to make sure we don't do something we regret as well So, uh, we're we're in the waiting game right now one of the things we're doing One of the lessons learned back in the 70s and 80s is that we were spending way too much time and money feeding livestock and uh Since then we've tried to run a year around grazing operation We're feeding every critter on the place right now because uh, we were extremely dry last year We were extremely lucky uh to get moisture in september In early october and had really nice regrowth and the last thing we want to do is go out there and graze all that off Before it starts responding with the spring growth Uh I Obviously we have some sacrifice areas where we're doing that but we could be grazing. We've got good grass But I don't I don't want to ruin it for the year or for future years or for For a potential response when the rains do start coming. So we're feeding everything I don't I hate it Because we've grown to appreciate not having to feed But we also have learned to respect the resources and and take care of them. So um, just to summarize the importance aspects of of Our operation and having a drought plan or a disaster plan as I've already said is uh, Number one know what you have for resources out there. Uh number two Flexibility, uh, it's huge. Uh, I see so many people get in a rut and and uh, we run a cow-calf operation and and and I'm speaking as their Their philosophy Not ours We have in march and that's the way we've always done it and we Sell in november and and we've learned that that we need to be flexible in each year is is not the same and uh So we try to be flexible and and bottom line is this all boils down to being sustainable and and the huge thing where I was back in 1976 is we needed to straighten out our profitability and By adding these different enterprises number one the the custom grazed steers number two are yearling heifer Grazing which we can ship out or dry lot or Whatever we have to and the one I haven't mentioned yet in in the course of changing our our Priorities I'll say With taking care of the natural resources instead of just worrying about trying to get the most pounds off of a an acre As I mentioned earlier Uh There wasn't any wildlife left after 1976 and when we started making the natural resources our priority versus Pounds that we could brag about in november The wildlife started responding the diversity in our in our range started responding and uh We actually got to the point where we had deer and pheasant numbers that were becoming a liability So we started two different hunting enterprises an upland bird enterprise and and a archery deer hunting enterprise that has Again just really reinforced our profitability And sustainability and and it was because we completely changed our operation Jim you've already really laid out a nice platform For us to understand the daybreaker range and how Here we are in 2022. You've come along over the course of the last 40 plus years You and carol operating and managing this place and now your son and daughter in law taking over We're beginning to have son and law and son and law and daughter. Sorry closing out They're they're equal in your eyes now. I'm I'm relatively certain Um It may not be so common as we'd like it to be For the priority order of of resources on a ranch whether that be the people The the real estate itself The grass that grows on it the livestock Would you share kind of The the priority order sure of those resources because I think it's not as common as I hope it would be someday Yeah, and and that's a tough one when you when you've spent a lifetime In survival mode if you will Either because of economy droughts whatever pricing It's pretty easy to get wrapped up in day-to-day ranch operation and that's been a tough one for me Not only did I go through the the first really disaster drought in 1976 Uh, but that went from that we were just almost starting to recover and we went into Uh, the economic challenges of the 1980s and and dealing with up to 22 interest and stuff when we were Had operating loans up to our eyeballs from start up in 1973 in the drought of 76 so another hard knock and uh And and again the sheep business is probably what got us through those those uh hard economic times but I all I also know that that It was a lot of sacrifice for my family all all the way from Not having the finances to go have that fun vacation or whatever to to Being uh family labor, you know and and helping with that survival And so that that's a tough mode to be in and and I've tried to change that over the the years, but it's still Important to take care of the landscape and the the resources on that landscape and I I've I've really gotten involved probably because of those early years Uh knowing the value of taking care of those natural resources and how they'll take care of you and uh So if if number one, I'd say faith in god is number one because it's helped get through some of these trying times and and uh Importance of family to support that and support you uh So I I guess faith number one family number two and and the land and and the resources on it I'd lump together because it's it's all one in in my opinion Trust me as I've said before there is life after cows. I've been there Uh, we went to sheep. We went to yearlings. We went to a hunting enterprises all to and and frankly It's it's what's made us as profitable as we are because of of the fact that when one of those is is in the dump price wise or production wise You can I I look back and it's pretty scary to just have one enterprise What if you had a disease outbreak? I mean the list just goes on and on. I don't have to let my imagination run together But it's dangerous And so since we've diversified it's taken a lot of that mental pressure off of us Not workload pressure. We still got plenty to do but we've become more efficient about doing that too as we We've changed our operation, but machinery it's You know, I go back to the days of gordon hazard when he was in heim war and gave a presentation that if it rust rots or I forget the other one Don't have it And and I've remembered that philosophy and I got plenty of rust and router on I'm not saying that but if you use that mindset to avoid as much of it as you can It's it's really easy on the economics. So There's plenty and and I don't want to paint a picture. Well get rid of the cows and go out and farm everything You know, we got high-priced grains. Let's let's just tear that grass up That's that's in my mind the last thing you should do But there's so many enterprises from custom grazing to renting grass out to Bringing another enterprise another class of livestock in to and I and I think One of the things I think we're all guilty of and I'll say I I was guilty of it is not looking at those complementary Enterprises that fit in so nice with with what you're already doing or what you have on the ranch. I My business plan never included hunting operations But I'm here to tell you if you take care of your resources What a powerful way to reach out to the public to to show them what good stewardship on the land does so Um, just just fantastic opportunities and I think we need to look at other opportunities And and get past just being a cow factory There's conflict Across the ocean. There's drought here at home and a large swath of depth or great plains Grain markets are high Kind of markets fair, I guess probably but you know, if you're a seller you could always use more Right. It's not a level playing field, right? Right. Um, there's a whole lot. We don't know. We don't know what tomorrow brings In fact, none of us is even guaranteed tomorrow. So Jim I admire the way that you've described how the ranch has changed over the years With with your management decisions and and the factors at play How do you operate? How do you make decisions in this environment where you constantly don't know the future? Only only what happened? Yeah And and it's it's probably as unstable as I've ever seen it other than as a kid I remember the Cuban crisis that was A comparable situation to where we are right now I think and I I don't know whether we had a drought to go along with that or not but I think things are about as unstable right now as I've ever seen and I think The situation in Ukraine could really develop into some some real hunger situations Some shortages and Who knows what the economy does? Yeah, we got high prices right now two weeks. It might not be worth anything You just never know and it's as unstable as I believe I've ever seen it We can't out guess that We just have to be Conscious of making wise decisions I think and Again, I can't emphasize flexibility and diversity enough and and probably The next thing maybe even more important than that is the relationships you have with wise people business associates other producers family members And and I think maybe some of the best lessons I've learned are from people completely outside agriculture So I I I think uh I I well, it's easy to get into a Rut and keep doing things the way we always did and and ignore the facts and but I think I think flexibility and and an open mind and being conscious I think one of the things I do basically year around unless everybody is Nice and wet is to watch the us drowth monitor We're talking about drowth here and that's that's one of the indicators. I see I I don't need it to know whether I'm dry You know I always got that figured out probably got a good idea in South Dakota But what's going on in the rest of the nation? What's going on in the rest of the world? Um, and I and I think those are all very very important things to keep an eye on as far as Trends on how it's going to affect the marketing that you do that How is it going to affect the consumer? How is it going to affect any of the business associates? There's there's many products that are hard to get right now and there's shortages and and uh We're seeing what high price fuel can be again and As I already said normally we try not to feed well that's saving fuel But we want to save the resources too. So we are feeding right now and But one of one of the things we do as part of our drowth plan is to To try to keep a year's forage on hand in in several forms. It can be standing forage in dormant Stockpiled forage. It can be stored forage Or the or the moisture and that'll come up in my trigger dates the moisture so that we know we're at least capable of raising Some so we try to keep uh and and I think that has really put a lot of stability into our operation We have three hay sheds and they're full right now And the last thing I'd do is recommend anybody go out and build hay sheds under today's cost But we build them in a time when they paid for themselves in one year Wow We we were also selling some hay at the time dairy quality hay and hay was high priced and But I'd never do that again. It's just that it worked at that opportunity. So again You have to constantly look at those opportunities and be flexible and open-minded on what you may need to do so in Practical application jim. I'd like to know we're north of high more what 15 miles here. Yeah 12. Yeah, okay And other interviews we've got far west river We're going to have far east river and you're somewhere in the middle Is there a minimum amount of surface protection or plant residue cover that you try to maintain In a normal year or maybe it's different in a drought year But after grazing so you've used this pasture, you're not going to come back this season How much is left? Yeah So as far as the letter we don't want to see any bare ground That's the first thing we always look at and and I think you can have too much litter in some cases too. So And an example would be after 2019 when we were as extremely wet as Or 2020 it would have been This is extremely wet as we were extremely die We actually were under stocked and ended up with enough Litter that it it smothered out some of the plants in cases I didn't think that'd ever happen, but I didn't think we'd ever be that wet either And and even though we had extra yearlings on hand We did not put enough grazing pressure on certain Well, and let me back up typically we we dormant rest Some past year season long So we do have some to start on the next spring early calving And and that's where we saw it as there was actually too much that So it wasn't utilized in the growing season exactly saved for exactly and it was too much It hurt us the next year So it can be overdone, but we try to keep the ground Covered as far as standing residue I like to see six inches on our cool seasons and about a foot on our warm seasons as I've mentioned We do have some warm season Plantings that are that are on marginal farm ground So I like you can't take those down as short as the cool season. So that's important Uh Yeah, so I I guess our rule of thumb is six inches I think the important thing in all that is the amount of rest and like right now We're sacrificing some areas That haven't been grazed for a couple years We're taking them down really short But the key thing is the rest that's going to come behind it and uh That may be two years. It may be three if it don't rain maybe four Right, uh We know those areas are not going to want to see livestock again for a considerable amount of time But the amount of pressure we're taking off of Of the grass that was grazed properly last year in the interest of having a good start this year Is going to pay dividends in doing that Jim you've indicated that on cool seasons you you aim for a six inch residual height After grazing and on warm seasons often it's 12 inches Clearly and especially anybody that has ever hunted upland birds can visualize that that after grazing is still decent habitat to to hunt and fall As there's one potential cause for that Or or result not cause but result of that I'm curious what other benefits there are to leaving that kind of residual cover after grazing event well, uh This this has been a Learning process for me over the years and I wished I'd known everything that I've gleaned over the years 50 years ago, but I didn't So it's it's been kind of an exciting Journey if you will but nrcs came out and did some soil core samples on some of our ground comparing it That's where we had been using planned grazing and grazing management and across the fence Where it wasn't managed that way more season long and the infiltration rates on our well-managed grass the first inch of water went in in I believe it was 10.7 seconds Really rapidly? Yes. The second inch It took about 30 seconds, but two inches in less than a minute's bottom line and that's all we need to know about that That's that's soaking her up So the value of having that residual out there, uh soil health standing plants to break that wind and Raindrops or snow hitting the ground whatever Is so key in in increasing your organic matter soil health carbon a lot of discussion on carbon these days Well, there's nothing better than grasslands than to save carbon so It's it's huge and having that residue out there both standing in on the ground again It goes back to profitability If we're putting water in the ground we get quicker recovery. We produce more pounds. We produce more beef We produce more pheasants the all compliments each other Certainly and and i'm going to ask you a question here in another segment Regarding the rate of recovery when favorable conditions return And I think I think you'll be able to pull the blinds back a little bit even more on on some of the lasting values of those things so plant residues grass fords broadleaves Even shrubs that might be native or not native in your pastures Are getting utilized by livestock in some way or another Even if that is as simple as just being trampled to the ground, right? Most people think that's wasted. I don't yeah, I would agree I would agree because you're putting it when when a plant is in contact with soil other than its roots We're making food available to the microbiology and the soil and that is what really creates pore space And that rapid water infiltration that you mentioned Because if it's dry, you want to capture every drop of salt here, right? If it's not dry, you probably still want to capture that's correct, too I I've said in a number of my drought presentations I'm I'm not out to be greedy, but I really don't want any water leaving the place It's it's too valuable and for those of you that are on a rural water system, you know the value Every thousand gallons of water that you run through a tank or through your home If you assign that to infiltration across the acreage of your operation All of a sudden you can pretty pretty easily hit million dollar rains or quarter million dollar rains in one event Well, and let's talk about another aspect of that you bring up in filtration. There's been several years where we had Adequate grass in fact good grass, but it came In runoff events that were zero Either slow or or the time of year it came And so I think something important to keep in mind in that drought plan and something I haven't mentioned Is the fact that since every year since 1973 we have put in additional water lines and tanks Because there's years where we didn't have any drinking water for the livestock that we had good grass and We've pretty well Handled that situation by having a tank in every pasture that we own or ran so But The infiltration is great. Don't do any good to have a dam full of water if you don't have any grass and With good soil health play it it soon turns that around. Yep. That can be an indicator That you're doing the right thing If there's runoff occurring in the countryside, but not on your place something right is happening Kind of went off on a rabbit trail there Jim, but yeah, that was my fault. No, no it wasn't I laid the stage and you you took it Can we expect land managed like you manage yours to respond rapidly when favorable conditions return? Yeah, and I think that's the thing we've seen that's just amazing And there's been a couple different times that we've bought ground that was season long grazed and it's just unbelievable the difference In production even on a wet year On those pastures that have been season long grazed for so long And so it pretty well proves the point and and as I already mentioned in 1977 after the bad 76 drought the response on On grasslands was just unbelievable. I I couldn't believe it myself And so if you have good soil health you take care of it What what I see happens with many times and it's it's really scary as I travel across the country is as people think well Grass is grass and we're going to get it all I guess and so There's nothing left out there. They may be feeding them, but they're still out there chewing the rest into the ground as that responds and boy talk about a recipe for disaster and And it takes so many years for that to recover back to the capabilities it can and I I get it They need to be someplace you need to survive economically. I guess what I'm saying is If you have a drought plan if if you get diversity worked into your operation Both on the landscape and as enterprises you can start managing around that and it's it's changed our profitability around so much that I I'm pretty excited about it, but I survived. I guess I should be pretty excited Yeah, yeah, certainly in in the the time span of of your career You probably have friends that didn't make those adjustments. Oh, yeah, no longer ranch. That's that's right those years And the drought of 76 started it and then the economic trials of the 80s was really a one-two punch that That put just a number of my neighbors and friends out of the cattle business and and out of the out of the ag business period and Boy, that's that's tough lessons there What do they say to ignore history is to be prepared to repeat it? Yeah We don't want that that's that's really the motivation behind this project is to share some ideas and and skill sets that members of the grassland coalition have so that Maybe for those of you who are in a really really tough situation Maybe some of these alternatives are helpful in that even if things look different We still want you in agriculture. Well, and I think one of the important motivations to the coalition board to do this is is the fact that Hopefully people will reach out to Mentors the people they're seeing on these videos NRCS folks I mean, there's there's a host of experts out there that can really give some guidance and I'll tell you It's pretty lonely world out there if you think you're going broke and don't know what you're going to feed the cows tomorrow and People really need to reach out to folks and Glean some advice. Maybe their minister might be the good place to start but It's important So we talk a lot about management in in this series of questions and and how your decisions have had impacts on the landscape Whether you intended to or not there's a Reaction to the action that you've taken as the human manager on on these acres So Jim, I'd like to know maybe what it looks like, but but in the summary How important is planning your grazing rotation from one year to the next? Well, it's it's extremely important As I mentioned earlier our goal is to to graze year around and we use some crop aftermath in that program But where there's two times of the year that are really Important and I'll go so far as to say stressful when it comes to grass management One's in the fall you start like last fall We had the opportunity to graze that regrowth off and the cows got to be someplace We did that in a few places But most of it we tried to stay off of that The other important time is in the spring when you start and so those those are very critical times to where you can really Ruin your grazing and plan for the year So one of the things we do is Carefully plan for where we want to be in the spring to start out in other words that April timeframe, maybe even late March We have our cow herd in May So typically we're out grazing all all winter long unless the snow's too deep or We're short of forage So we uh we defer grazing on On certain pastures that we're going to use and we try to do this a different time each year, but we defer Grazing all summer and fall on some pastures that we'll start on in that March-April time frame because It's going to start growing faster. It's going to produce better. It's going to respond easier to the moisture you've built up You got a lot of dormant grass there So you you don't need to worry about those grass tetany things because when they take a Mouth full of green grass they get half old grass to go along with it So it's a nice buffer to start into your grazing program It's also a really nice place for those baby calves to be born clean and protection and and so we we uh, we also in our calving area and We've got eight pastures that that we specifically have in sometimes more but we will uh On a normal year and this might not be normal So I have to be careful but on a normal year We completely defer two of those eight pastures for the entire year To start in in our calving the following year And of course, we got to have them someplace going in into calving So I say we calve in may but they need to be someplace in april too So about the middle of april those those pastures are the ones we'd go into Grass is typically responding. You got good cover. You got good good ground cover and moisture build up. So That that fall and spring planning is so critical One of the other things we deal with in this area and it's I hate it, but brome grass is increasing uh unbelievable amounts in these native pastures and so we try to to plan our stocking of yearlings over and above the cow herd To take care of that extra flush of brome grass Two years ago. It was also sweet clover And as I've already mentioned we didn't have adequate stocking numbers that year But but that's some of the things you need to look at And so we have to be flexible to take care of drought years like this We have to be flexible to take care of the super productive years like 2020 when we had brome grass waste high and sweet clover chest high But we tried to never let either one of those get that tall and That takes some numbers to do that and and the flexibility so It's it's all a bit of guesswork Planning for the following year when you don't know what you're going to get from moisture But that's why a drought plan is so critical and trigger dates even more critical Very helpful. Are you using any specific tools as you assess how much forage you have and as you're kind of getting into that growing season? particularly determining You know, maybe how many of those stock or cattle are from outside the operation are coming on Yeah, are you using the grazing stick? Are you clipping? Are you having an rcs come out and do that? What's that look like here? We've used at all Adam actually Of course, both of us have been through the grazing school. That's an important start, but adam has a weather station that records moisture wind temperature and all sorts of things every 15 minutes and documents it to his computer Which also has nrcs drought tool in it So that's an important tool as I've already mentioned. We watch the drought monitor. We keep track of our own moisture What else do we do? Oh, I use the grazing stick we have But I'll tell you what I'm 72 years old if I haven't learned some of that just by eye There's no hope so I don't I don't use the grazing stick I think it's a fantastic tool, but I I'll be honest. I don't use it very seldom anymore because I know when there's trouble and I know when it's good Nope, it does have some uses other than measuring grass. That's true Um And and I asked that question kind of thinking that that might be Jim's response And the point is folks that that when you're training your eye and and learning these techniques You may need to use those tools to to learn to visually calibrate And and then maybe simply walking out into a pasture will give you a pretty good feel for it Much like Jim has now and and adam but The more information the better Use it to your To your advantage and these tools are there and and I'll I'll be the first to admit And I really admire the people that will go out and and clip and really find out what they got because it can be a Real eye opener and and especially early in your career. I think it's very important, but But uh, that's the way you really know what you have out there and and what the potential is I I like to use a soil probe. I I like to know what we're where we're at from waste year and that can vary an awful lot Last year adam's got a app that records supposedly what how much rainfall fell in different areas And I had uh 60 hundreds and he's about three miles away from me had 30 hundreds But he said in between us it says we've got an inch 70 And I said sure We had cows there and and I went down there and there was actually water standing in the pasture Pretty seldom thing to happen in 2021 And then I had a neighbor that's kind of in line with the way the that cloud was going That I talked to him and he'd had over two inches So we were all there with probably about three miles apart from each other and it varied that much So just what happens at your rain gauge or Or what the nearest weather station says or kello land says, uh, don't prove much You need to get out there and see what you really have and and we've got multiple rain gauges put up On the ranch in some of the outlying areas so we can keep track of what we're actually getting So you can adapt according to Right Because we had we had some places that were way drier than here at the home ranch last year so and This might be able to prove your your neighbor's right or wrong when they say you get more rain than they do That's true It goes both ways on that. Here he does So we talked about the annual grazing plan And and its importance and and how that may look different from one year to the next or even one part of a growing season To another part of that same growing season just as the conditions change And in this case, maybe even implementing a drought plan for 2022 But jim, I wondered if you would discuss the the lasting value you see from having a written plan when it comes to the pasture rotation that's at your disposal Both for grazing and if it's a different document or maybe it's incorporated having a drought plan Well, I think plan is the key word and it goes way way further than that and when I when I took My first holistic planning school and the ranching for profit school, which I would suggest if if you haven't taken up you need to but at the I believe it was a ranching for profit school We had to put down a goal where we wanted to be and and one of our goals was What what we wanted the ranch to look like in 20 years And and so often I think we're so busy putting out fires for today that that we aren't Really planning and looking ahead. So planning is extremely important And when you start making decisions based on what you want things to be and look like in 20 years it really changes your approach and and and And decisions in a lot of cases what you make and I don't care whether it's from a business standpoint or grazing standpoint or future standpoint when you start looking at that long-term effect, right? It's uh, It's extremely important and it really helps you get to where you want to be so from a grass and and drought and and I'm going to say disaster planning again to ants because There's so many things that can be other than just drought even though. That's what we're talking about today But but to have that plan for 20 years down the road you better be ready to handle a bit major fire or 100 inches of snow or whatever And so when you start making that plan, I'm not sure you can have one without the other I'm not sure you can have your whole holistic plan together without having those as well as other aspects of it and and If you don't have a drought plan to go along with with your regular grazing plan It's a recipe for a disaster because all of a sudden you'll run out of grass You'll you'll run out of places to go. You'll start coming back too soon in your rotation if you're doing that more and once a year And I I don't like grazing a pasture more and once a year We do it in certain circumstances depends on them the year What's growing there what you're managing what kind of diversity you're trying to manage but uh, I I would say a Plan grazing system without a disaster plan to go along with it as a recipe for a disaster All of a sudden things were good and now it's a crisis Yep Because we didn't and and it might not even be that year it might be the next year and and that's kind of where we're at now We we came through Uh 2021 like there wasn't a drought and it was pretty bad uh We really didn't have to I mean we we did a few things like One of the things we do is we do have some hay ground and and we grazed a lot of our hay ground. We didn't put up hay Except here where we caught that heavy rain We we did hay a little bit there, but very little last year We were able to and again flexibility and diversity. We grazed those hay fields, which is good for them And and for sure the last thing they needed is be clipped off at the ground Right uh, so again If you don't have that kind of flexibility and and uh planning built into your your plan It's a recipe for a problem There's a lot to weigh for you decision makers out there We don't intend to overwhelm but we do want to point out some of the highlights for sure And if you've entered 2022 and find yourself in a tight spot whether that be financially or with regard to your forage Or any number of other circumstances We want you to know that there are resources out there. Jim has mentioned more than once other individuals your your personal friends and contacts business partners whether that's the person who buys your livestock from one year to the next Your your lender if you're in a situation where you have an operating loan The clergy in your in your church if you're a person of faith And it could simply be A member of the member a member of the grassland coalition the mentor network These folks have volunteered to serve in that capacity and really do Welcome the telephone calls invitations to visit your place if they're not too terribly far away bounce some ideas off of them share share what you're struggling with and Because the true intent is is that they don't want you to make the same mistakes that they did Not all of the mentors are Are in their 60s or 70s. Some of them are young But they have a wealth of experience on the topics that they've signed up for So if you have interest in that document contact the grassland coalition and we will get it to you Let me add one thing to that dance and you said it very well But I think for anybody that may be viewing this that Knows they need to take a different approach to the way they're doing business Drought they're no drought And are seeing advantages to maybe taking that holistic approach and doing business different if if you don't feel like what you're doing is Is working right? You're right Something needs to change and one of the things and and we were there In in the 80s and we did a lot of changing and still do changing But one of the things we learned not only are the people that you you do business with associate with reach out to but one of the things we learned real quick is the people that You do business with egg related but not maybe Directly grass related I I ended up changing Veterinaries to to be more in tune with this approach of of being regenerative Changing I mean whoever heard a fence laying leaning calves and cabin in May I mean this was this was back in the early 90s probably. I don't even remember what year it was but it was off the wall and Quit pouring livestock and stuff. I mean you need a A special veterinary to support that kind of thinking you need a special banker that'll tolerate all of a sudden You're you're selling Five weight calves in December instead of six weight calves the first of November So we change and and feed feed the consultant We changed all those people to fit into the way we wanted to do business and and my advice to To people that may be listening to this is is work with people that'll work with you Because there's a host of people out there their main goal is selling you something and it may not be in your best interest when we've been talking about planning the annual grazing rotation and Recognizing drought symptoms if you will Jim you mentioned the term trigger dates more than once I'd like to know what that looks like here on the day break. Yeah Well, uh interestingly a lot of people have trigger dates in the spring and we do as well, but we have also one in the fall because If and and last year we were really lucky to get some From about the middle august to the middle october We had significant rainfall for that time of the year above average not for the year, but for that time frame So october one is is our first Maybe more of an observation date than a trigger date But if if we were in bad enough shape, which we might be this year That means maybe we let the calves go Instead of keeping them around during the winter Uh, maybe we cut down our cow herd to make sure we're still in business So october can be very very important And it sure is from a moisture and it's a really good time to evaluate What you have for any feed sources whether you can make it through the winter if you get 100 inches of snow It's a good time to evaluate what you've got for residue left out there whether you have some garment grass So october one is is huge Our next one is is may one and I know that's later than a lot of people but But that tells us gives us that chance to go through april and see where we're at for moisture Uh, not that we may not take some action earlier in that but that's that's a desperation time may one So that's that's our our next trigger date And and we're looking at that all through april then but may one is is is a trigger date Time to take action, right? And I and I skipped the the middle one april one is also because then you can evaluate Again, uh your livestock classes what you've got what you've had for winter moisture and uh and and going into But but may one is our our final trigger date And and not again not that that don't mean we wouldn't sell additional livestock or move them off the place in in july say But but we know we're in trouble when when we get to me We haven't said this out loud jim has mentioned it for this ranch that april moisture is probably the most important that it is Comes down the line. Yeah, um, but in general terms wherever in our state or even in neighboring states that you might be watching from The months of april may and june really drive grassland production In the upper great plains Not at the expense or the complete exclusion of other months, but those three Really do drive What we can expect coupled with that previous falls moisture like jim has mentioned. Yeah, and uh Again each ranch is different. We're predominantly cool season grass Well june one, uh, it's way too late for cool season grass and that's why our final trigger Date is may one if it was all warm season grass what might be july one Uh, but and we do have warm season grass. That's really bailed us out a number of times But since we're so predominantly cool season may one is what really sets the stage for the ranch And I would make the case that the further west you go the more reliant upon cool season grasses Do you become just as you move further east across our state? You get closer and closer to what was the remnant tall grass prairie And uh, and that's where where that summertime moisture and really the climate Does lend itself to that that we catch those those summertime thundershowers That that will in the course of three miles go from three tenths to to an inch sixty or whatever it was in your example um And not that that doesn't happen everywhere across the landscape at some point in time but The likelihood of it is certainly higher the further east you go. So I think we have to accept the fact that that the You can call it climate change or weather change whatever you want to but My observations is that our seasons have shifted a little bit Springs are are later and and falls are to the start of all And and the weather is so extreme. I mean Either either we're 20 degrees below normal or 20 degrees above either we aren't getting any rain or we're having thunder floods Temperature swings are just unbelievable And and it's maybe the new norm and we have to plan accordingly I've been a part of a number of conferences that that are indicating that your your personal observation is kind of the trend line is that We may tend to be warmer and For longer many more days, maybe not a lot more days, but in ecological terms that kind of change is pretty significant um And the one thing that the forecasters have shared in the scientific world is that While our precipitation patterns, I hope for annual averages may not be changing significantly At least not in a statistics related manner That we have more intense Yeah precipitation events. Yeah, I would agree spread out further apart with that in mind Treating your grazing lands in such a way that builds the capacity to infiltrate water as rapidly as possible Is the way to defend yourself? Absolutely resilience. Absolutely So certainly Look at the resources that jim has mentioned. We'll have links posted on both the sdgras.org website as well as the sddroughtplan.org website, which is a link and a product of the grassland coalition And the tagline there pray for rain plan for drought Amen I have one final question jim. I and I feel like maybe we've loaded the gun a little bit, but um, I don't sound good No, it doesn't We've talked about planning and and how the how folks might use the topics we've discussed To be better prepared for the next drought But for those that have their back against the wall already and are literally putting out fires With flames or or if they're just in crisis mode having to liquidate many of the livestock on the operation Maybe are seeking off-arm jobs. What have you? Just just to make it through Probably are feeling like you're out of options. So I'm wondering if you have any wisdom that you can impart on what first steps they should take The resources that they can reach out to Things like that. Yeah. Well, the first thing need to keep in mind is you could listen to me all day and talk about my operation, but but anybody else's operation is different It don't matter if you're five miles down the road or 250 miles down the road Everybody's resources available is different their landscapes different their circumstances are different their Financial situation is different their their stage in life is different So those are all critical But but the big thing is to reach out to people that that have That valuable experience and and many of the people on I'd say all the folks on the grassland coalition board Have had that experience and and many off of the board if if you know of People that are maybe doing a little thing things a little different on down the road reach out to them Reach out to those expert sources that that can Maybe tell you you need to talk to somebody else That can really put you in connection with with somebody that has has lived through that situation, but But this uh, this this isn't the time to just crawl into a hole and hope for rain It it does take some action But it needs it needs to apply to your own operation And and you need to know what your resources are And and the situation you're in what you can do, but But I'll say it again. There is life after cows and and that's where I was in 1976 I was sitting there with a Cow enterprise. I was cabin in march. I was going for big calves. I was feeding them all winter Uh, completely different mindset than where I'm at now Uh, and and interestingly our our calf weights haven't gone down that much But our profitability has gone up just unbelievable. So it can be done. I'm living proof Still alive still in operating and have changed about everything imaginable And and so there are those people out there that can can give direction And and sometimes you can't see the force for the trees And and to get somebody else's opinion and and thoughts I I've had some real light bulbs come on by going on tours listening to other speakers Going to ranching for profit the grazing school And I I think you could go to that stuff every year and you'd learn something and and I just can't can't Express the value of the information I've gotten from other people The exact circumstances may be different, but you've walked through this a number of times between drought and Market uncertainties high interest rates You name it I like the way you've termed. Yeah, we can call it a drought plan because that's our main topic here today But but this is disaster planning another way to think about it is risk management Absolutely, and and that's those are terms that your lender is certainly interested in They want to see you succeed because when you succeed you pay the interest on any notes that you have and so Reach out to these resources Thank you to the grassland coalition for for spurring this idea to put this video and audio series together We hope that you're finding value in it And stay tuned for additional content to be posted as it comes available Thanks, dance. Thank you, Jim