 honouring traditional knowledge in the fight against the climate crisis. So it was supposed to be the global environment editor Jonathan Watts from The Guardian, but unfortunately you'll start with me, so in a way the advantage of me is I'm not at all coming from this area, I'm a journalist originally, so I'm more coming from a general public point of view, public health, of course I know the huge value of traditional knowledge in public health, but for the rest of it please forgive me if I say some things that may be a bit politically incorrect, imagine that I'm coming from a general public point of view, so I'm very excited. As you know this is about promoting the importance and the legal ownership of indigenous people and local communities, the land rights, you know as a necessity to achieve the national and international goals of forest governance, food security, climate mitigation, economic development and human rights. So this is a once a month series until October and each webinar takes on a different topic, so it'll be taking place in English and translated simultaneously in Spanish, French and Portuguese. We'll be taking questions in the second half, but we're going to have an opening discussion from some very erudite speakers, including I think we're starting here, thank you everyone on the panel, we're going to start here with Gigi Buddy who is an American Indian Tongva Mescalero artist and student studying theater and performance with a particular focus on the environmental analysis at Pomona College. She served as the environmental community coordinator for the Human Impacts Institute and as an intern with the Arctic Cycle, two organizations that work on both art and climate change. Her passion for art and environmental justice led her to conduct research in the Malaysian Borneo alongside Pomona professors and she has since been published in the Environmental Lab Asia Academic Journal for her time in Malaysia. So her creative talents lead her to write songs and poetry and Indigenous stories or creation on the Indigenous justice action. We also have Mina Susana Setra, an Indigenous woman leader, Dayak Pompang, correct me, please correct me afterwards if I've heard this wrong, from the West Kalimantan, Indonesia. She's currently the deputy to the secretary general of the Amman and Social Cultural Affairs in Indonesia and where they have 2,373 Indigenous communities as active members. Mina is the founder of Rurai TV, a television outlet providing media access to marginalized communities in West Kalimantan. The station uses citizen journalism to give community members a voice. Fiore Longo is the director of the France and Spain officers of the NGOs Survival International which defends the rights of tribal people and coordinates its decolonized conservation and the big green light campaign. So now let's get on to the discussions with the Q&A. Please remember that you can use your chat section and if you know Paolo or you want to WhatsApp to get to me that's great but I will be checking the chat. So let's get going. Gigi to start things off, this webinar focuses on different forms of knowledge and how the artists and climate change can make change or have an impact. So can you tell us a bit more about the organization and what you think needs to be done in relation to Indigenous and traditional knowledge? Gigi over to you. Thank you. Is Gigi there? Thank you, Samantha. Hi everybody. Hi everybody. Thank you so much for joining today. I want to preface my answer to this question with just introducing myself fully. I'm Gigi, I'm Tongva Indian and Muscular Apache and I'm currently residing on Tongva land but I'm originally from the Bay Area in California which is the rightful land of the coast we walk by. But on on to my my answers. Thank you again, Samantha. Artist and Climate Change is actually an initiative of a larger nonprofit organization called the Arctic Cycle which is an organization that I have spent the last year working for as an intern and it has been lovely. But before my gap year from school that I took off because of the pandemic I had previously collaborated with Chantal Boulodau who is the founder and the Arctic Cycle in the fall of 2019 when my college and I produced an event for Climate Change Theater Action. Climate Change Theater Action or CCTA is another initiative of the Arctic Cycle in which 50 playwrights from around the world are commissioned to write short plays based on a prompt that has to do with our climate crisis. It happens by annually so that actually means that this year is a CCTA year and I can absolutely talk more about that later if anyone has questions but I will also forward the link to the website so anyone can explore the initiative on their own. My specific work within the Arctic Cycle has revolved around getting CCTA up and running but also has allowed me to create my own series through Artist and Climate Change which is a blog and international network that publishes essays, interviews and editorials with the purpose of creating community and promoting the inclusion of arts in the global climate change conversation. So my series is entitled Indigenous Voices and I created it with the intention to share knowledge about Indigenous artists who are working at the interception of feeder and environmental justice. So my series focuses on both the experiences of Indigenous artists as well as Native narratives which include history, traditions, art, cultures that have been severely oppressed and oftentimes are left out of the art world and the climate justice conversation. So during my time working on this series I have had the pleasure to interview many artists, people like Cherokee playwright Catherine Nagle who is also a tribal sovereignty and land rights lawyer. I think these experiences have been monumental in my own education and identity which has been just a wonderful journey to be going on and I think the series also I see a lot of myself in these powerful Indigenous artists who also have passions that align with their indigeneity. I think it's really important to note and acknowledge that Indigenous communities are the rightful caretakers of this land and that we have a wealth of knowledge that can help guide policy to implement sustainable and positive change when it comes to our environmental crisis. I also think it's equally as important to acknowledge and embrace art as an effective tool to communicate climate issues. I think sometimes there can be quite a strong disconnect between science, academia and accessibility and I strongly believe that that art really starts to blur that line so that more people can easily understand environmental issues. Understanding these complex and very impactful issues gives people agency to act and create change and I think art especially performing arts and theater is a really valuable tool to get people to think differently about our environment. I think art is a really important role in space because it allows facts to be communicated in a way that appeals to emotions. Okay Gigi, sorry to interrupt. This sounds great so can you give us an example, I'm sorry I'm a little bit mindful of time, can you give us an example of some of the great work that you're doing and maybe a reading or something you might want to share just to give an example of how you're doing this. Thank you. Oh sure, yeah well of course so I'm also a performer, I am studying theater performance but on top of that I also write my poetry and a lot of it has to do with my own relationship to my indigeneity and the importance of talking about traditional knowledge as a resource for climate solutions and I do have a poem here that that I would love to read born of my own experience of existing in this world and of bringing with me generations of warriors that live with me and around me of environmental trauma and familiar knowledge in my studies as a student so this poem was really a melting pot of all of that and I've never read it for anyone in this capacity so I hope you enjoy this poem is called The Wild Things. I scour the streets wondering where the wild things went like the breeze that wraps itself around the leaves of trees and takes my secrets far away like the snow that softly melts from the tops of mountains and flows and rivers that burst with life like stars that dance in darkness and the quiet untouched land the beams with stories of creation and my imagination runs free with the wild things. You don't remember when they started to disappear only that I cried when the big dipper was no longer clear in the sky because of smoke that poured from forest crying for help if the land is hurt parts of me break and fold under the pressure of losing roots that were meant to last knowledge exists in my bones placed there by generations of healing hands the cared for the undying lands but just like a ship is dubbed unsinkable these lands are withering the sound of a new built world drowns out the voices screaming from our bones but we are not alone we are legends strong and warrior hearts that beat rhythm with each other and the pulse of this earth if you listen to the world you'll hear us and if you just open your eyes thank you oh thank you sorry I feel like I should clap that was so beautiful um that's really very moving I wish I had you know some I think that's what's really amazing when you hear these things is you feel this soul you share it so well thank you very much um I mean talking about your own roots and the first how do you work with elders to transfer this knowledge you know both for using your the traditional this beautiful poetry that you're speaking about um sure um I feel like there's a couple different parts to this and one is my own identity and my own roots and then how I um my role in in my community um I feel in a lot of ways I'm still trying to figure out my identity and my own relationship to indigeneity because I was raised off the res um somewhat called I'm an urban Indian um and so my relationship to tradition and culture has come from my mother um who is my my elder but my mother um you know she taught my brother and I the importance of talking sticks and talking circles um I think most of my creative endeavors also stem from my mother um and I think that those then stem from a culture that is about storytelling and myths and song and dance and beating and creativity in general um and I think I think she did her best to expose me to that crucial part of my identity she grew up in a very different world than I do now um and I'm privileged to be able to explore my passions and my desires to help my people um and I always keep her um in the forefront of my mind because I know that she didn't have the same experiences um but going on to my community um I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the stanford powwow which is the largest powwow on the west coast of the united states um and I think that was a really transformative uh uh it was really transformative for my relationship um with other tribes and indigenous communities in general currently I now work as a head mentor for the indigenous peer mentor program at my college which is a mentor program that is designed to support indigenous students um and while here at Pomona college I have had the immense pleasure to be on Tongva land to be on my tribal land um and um I've been able to learn from community members and elders that works to sustain our culture um and work with the land um you know I don't think I've had any firsthand encounters with members of the community that specifically relate to um climate issues but I think with every interaction there is a transfer of knowledge and tradition that I can then pass on um and I can pair it with my own education as it relates to the environment um for example my last article written um for artists and climate change was written for world indigenous peoples day and it focused on the traditional caretaking practices um of indigenous communities and how they relate to climate solutions um so I talked about the uh car trip of northern California and their practice of using cultural burdens and how the US has implemented policy to deter um and uh not deterred name literally quite literally stopped um indigenous communities from being able to practice things like controlled burning which actually have um immense helpful um ways that they that they help the environment um um I think western influence and knowledge has villainized fire um and only within the last 20 years or so we've seen a small policy shift and now adopting controlled burning techniques um which is from indigenous communities um it's it's their practice um uh thank you yeah um that's that's really wonderful sorry I'm just a bit aware aware of time I hope we can come back to more of that on these um cultural burning and others um I mean I know in Italy for example they it's everyone does it there's always like a burning to stop actually the bigger fires I don't know if that's what your that's to me from an outside that's what it sounds like um okay so moving on to thank you very much moving on to Fiore um I mean there's also some communities have been divided you know between say some of the elders who maybe resist some of the change and then for example some of the young indigenous leaders who strike deals with miners and loggers because they've grown up with those kind of ideas of um you know the more of a market economy how do you work with these different views um in your in your area of work yeah well hello um first of all I think it's important to say that change is normal and for every society in the world indigenous peoples change as we do and they have conflicts between generations as we do and some of the things are completely inevitable and not up to us to um to comment on that what we can do is to analyze which are the the reasons of these individual behaviors so what is actually um what is actually um putting far away the people from their own knowledge and what we see is that for indigenous peoples in a lot of places in the world knowledge is linked to the land so um if they lose the control of the land and they lose access to the land uh there is also a division with their knowledge so I think that we should be questioning is um why those lands are being stolen in the first place and what we can do to support uh them to be in control of their land and also in control of their own education because another of these reasons of that can create problems between generations is what kind of education indigenous peoples are getting most of the time is an education imposed by the state uh based mostly on telling them that they are primitives and they have to forget everything they know and survival international has a campaign against these forces cooling um what we call factory schools and we are also working um to recognize to push governments to recognize the lands right of indigenous peoples because without their lands they can't actually exercise any control on their own lives um so what we are fighting against is multinational companies governments but also conservation organizations that are stealing indigenous peoples lands yeah thank thank you um me now uh sorry i'm just checking here uh sorry how can sorry if you had a one more question for you how can outside organizations help indigenous knowledge to spread uh you know or so-called decolonize youth climate movements and climate science well I think it's not other organizations that that should help indigenous peoples is actually we should help ourselves to be ourselves not indigenous people to be closer to indigenous um uh communities and to listen to them and one of the things I realized working it I work on the field of conservation so my work is actually fighting against conservationists that are not listening indigenous people is that they are not listening them at all they only listen the ones who are telling what they want to listen and the indigenous voices are excluded from international summits are excluded for the tables of decision we just go there and tell them this is what we're going to do um so I think that what we need is a really a knowledge of the fact that the problem is here the problems are root in global north and that we have to that the indigenous people have been protecting their territories and um protecting biodiversity protecting the planet for generations and that we are the ones who need to learn and and I think that this is something uh very very far away of what is going on including in in a lot of the climate movement here in Europe but also because the focus of climate movement is climate and and climate is sometimes it's not been seen as a part of a bigger issue it's not only about climate the problem here is well the or the capitalist system and we should be talking about that and how to change that climate is the consequence of that system but if we just focus on climate and which is keep pushing about I don't know ecology or environment as things are completely separate from social justice I don't really think that is the colonization is going to happen I mean sometimes sorry this is just a bit of a personal question sometimes when you see it from the outside it seems like there's a lot of data flying around and then they kind of bring in the indigenous groups for a bit of color if you want like as a secondary thought I mean how do you bring these to you know in the media especially it seems okay you have the data you have the scientists arguing about climate change and then oh well let's bring an indigenous leader and talk about you know some rare leaf or something I mean that's what it seems like from an outside point of view that there's a bit of a disconnect I mean how do you actually make it work so that it's not just so that the indigenous have I don't know whether that is a lack of data or what is it that's going to bring this discussion together I mean also Gigi I don't know if you have anything to add on that but it just seems there's a bit of a disconnect I feel sorry yeah well of course it is disconnect because the first thing that we need to do is not bring in an indigenous person to talk it's recognizing their lands rights if they don't have access to their land and any kind of this thing even the idea that they can choose free that they're free to choose and decide if we are not here knowledge in the right of the land is something that is is fake people are not they're not in power and in the position to choose if they don't have access to the land and they can't feed themselves and they can't support their own own culture or or way of life for indigenous people land is life and that for me is the further knowledge we can keep you know support talking about climate we it's western science as something completely distanced from the fact that we are stealing indigenous people's land and resource to maintain our own way of life so I think that before bringing indigenous people we should be fast the ones changing we should change their way of life we should understand that it's a global north we're destroying indigenous people's land to maintain our way of life and then we are able to have a dialogue but what kind of dialogue can we think we have if we are not put we are not in an asymmetry in a sorry in an equivalent position because we are the ones are stealing their lands I don't know if it's it's clear yeah I mean maybe we can bring Mina in here I don't know Mina if you have any comment on this and from your experience in within indigenous people and working where you are in Indonesia yeah I think I think it's really important to to provide some kind of evidence of our claim we have been we actually we have been forced to provide evidence of our claim for example we talk about traditional knowledge as our contribution from our traditional knowledge or our initiative local initiative like in Indonesia we have this indigenous youth initiative what we call homecoming movement initiative or coming home initiative which started um few years ago started in 2020 where there was a big gathering of indigenous youth in Indonesia and they uh there were discussions on the state of indigenous territories the conflict that happened uh so many times uh land grabbing criminalization of our leaders and the youth they come to a moment where they were thinking uh what can we do to help these situations you know as as youth what can we do so they they they think about these ideas of we have to call all other youth in the cities to return back home to help our elders our communities to defend and protect and also manage our territories so that's how the idea come from and and you know many indigenous youth actually uh stuck in the cities there's a the cause of this is because there's a wrong uh perception about education and job you know mainly people here not only indigenous but also generally in Indonesia people think that it's only cities that provide job and if you want to have a good job you have to have a good education and good education you can only find in the cities so parents will send their children to go to the cities to study and then they expect them to stay in the cities so they can find job many times even when the youth return back home their parents will ask them right so what is the money I give you for for your education if at the end you return back to your communities you know there's always like there's something like that come come out so the youth think that we need to change these perceptions and at this well at the same time we can also help to defend and protect our territories so they start this homecoming movement 2015 there were three indigenous girls started this movement by establishing indigenous schools in three locations in north Kalimantan west Kalimantan and north Sulawesi so they started and since then now we have 82 indigenous schools everywhere in in Indonesia and of course the indigenous schools is really important as a means of transmissions knowledge from from the elders to the younger generations and we are still have more indigenous youth working now and more indigenous schools are coming up still in the in the process we get a report from different places where indigenous schools is in process to start up and they're not stopped there so the youth after they start with the indigenous homecoming with the indigenous schools they expand the ideas to other things so they also start they think about how can we directly involve in managing our territories oh I wish I can show photos here so they ask permissions from elders to work on piece of land in their territories and they form groups of youth from communities combined with youth coming home from cities and they start farming activities like building vegetable gardens and herbal or medicine plant gardens and even some of them combine these farming activities with educational ecotourism too and this now it start change the perception in the communities because now these activities can really also create jobs for the youth and they can also gain income from this in North Lawesi the one one group youth for example they can gain about 15 000 USD in one harvest much more than they can gain when they work in the cities but the most important things from this homecoming movement is not about the money but about the indigenous youth thinking about their future and their future is their land and territories that is most important things and so they can they start working on their territories while they can also defense their territories because you know many indigenous territories now left defenseless because the youth are everywhere else they're not in the in the communities they left the only children, elders and women most vulnerable in the communities no so now when they come home the communities have more defenders because they are there they work there and they can defense their their their village their communities together I think that is the most important things about this and I think to create examples like this is really important when we talk about climate change and what we can contribute start with local initiative I think it's really important thank you and how do you see how other predominantly western youth movements such as Fridays for Future and Sunrise how could they collaborate you know on the indigenous groups and the western groups how could they make it easier I think I think it's a very interesting idea to combine because I think each group has its specific uniqueness in starting their initiative no it's it's depend on where you are you cannot just make the same things everywhere because it's depend on your locations your your your situations no if if the indigenous youth can start at the farming movement because they have land and they were working on on their own land maybe in the cities the youth can start farming like the how do you call it the farm in your own house where you can use aqua farming for examples or you know more like organic kind of farming and create some initiative with other youth form groups to work on these ideas I think it we can come up with with so many unique initiative no you can also yeah you you can combine or mix it or you know youth youth has so many crazy ideas I've been working with the youth in the last few years and I was like sometimes we have to sometimes we have to to stay to them come down you know do this one by one because they before they finish one thing they want to start another thing so I think this is a really great energy that we have to work on we have to invest in this youth energy you know I I will be really really grateful if many many people more working with me because this is the future and they already think about the future I think that is most important things because when we talk about the the the continuation of the planet we are talking about them but now they are already talking about themselves so this is really I think it's really exciting so so I think everyone agrees there's some fantastic you know starting with the great perm we had and all the fabulous energy coming from the youth I've just got a question here sorry I'm reading this question which was already written about the the latest IP so thinking more on the structured way on the latest IPCC assessment report it noted that the indigenous and local knowledge can quote accelerate wide-scale behavior change consistent with adapting to and limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees centigrade but the scientists like the Connors before them say they know how to measure the benefits so two questions from this how do we get out of the absurd situation where the scientists say it is valuable but because we can't put a number on it we can't incorporate it into our calculations and can you give one or two examples ideally with numbers that show how it can be done well it makes yeah well for me Samantha first thing it doesn't really make sense that scientists come up with these conclusions that we cannot put numbers on it so we can incorporate it into our calculations sounds like not a scientist statement well they can put numbers on everything else including the calculation of limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius or they can calculate the age of the universe I mean you may not be for indigenous traditional knowledge first yeah you may not be able to value the knowledge but you can always calculate the impacts of that knowledge and in this case for examples they can start by putting numbers by calculating the benefit from the indigenous low carbon lifestyle for example how indigenous low carbon lifestyle contribute in balancing emissions I thought it should be simple and doable especially for scientists or calculate the impact of traditional knowledge practices to climate we have many examples like like the nice kio ritual in south amandu bandawan indigenous communities in east part of Indonesia it is an effort to protect the forest by stipulating a ban for anyone to enter the forest which is ritual ritualized and there is also a ban on cutting down forest called futan terinkang in hibundaya community in west kalimantan or the rumbio forbidden forest in kanadriyan rumbio in kampariao our traditional pahom pa ritual in issumba also strictly prohibit anyone from entering the forest oriented in forest product I mean scientists can calculate the benefit from the result of those traditional knowledge like the standing forest clean ocean and river biodiversity clean water carbon etc actually if it's done if this is done it will be the most powerful method of this millennium in saving the earth and human from extinction I think so so what do the others think of adding numbers from the traditional taking translating the traditional knowledge knowledge or ways and translating it into numbers that work well in charts and for western audiences what do the others think of it is that important for moving forward on these issues I I don't know if I can reply to that question if that's okay for for juji amina I I think that recognizing and respecting the rights of human beings according to the contribution to climate change is very dangerous we don't have rights as human beings because we do good recycling indigenous people have rights independently or how much they contribute to climate change or no and they have rights to their land independently of how much they protect biodiversity that said every evidence we have show that they are the best protecting biodiversity so there is less deforestation and 80 percent of biodiversity on indigenous people's territories nevertheless we keep not recognizing their lands rights and that's very important to understand and we keep thinking that putting a couple of numbers on how much they avoid climate or how much they avoid deforestation is going to help actually is the opposite because numbers like finance like a lot numbers and our final the finance is saying we can compensate or emissions by the number x number of the missions that indigenous people are not doing or are not producing by protecting their forests what happened is that a lot of companies are now paying or funding projects to compensate their emissions so I don't know shall any they say well if we pay we buy we pay to to a project or planting trees or whatever or protecting a land of an indigenous person to we can compensate our emissions and I think that again this is avoiding the real problem the problem is here in our societies independent of what indigenous people do they do it great but that shouldn't hide the fact that we are the ones polluting and destroying the planet and it's all responsibility to do something about it okay that's so putting the responsibility back there what about you Gigi what do you think about putting numbers on or measuring somehow on the indigenous side well I think but that's like a very inherently western like view and and take on traditional knowledge which I think is too contradicting ideas right like how are you supposed to communicate indigenous knowledge but do it through a western lens so I think that inherently is very problematic and that inherently contradicts each other and it's not actually productive in achieving the goal that I think it's meaning to do I also as an artist do not like numbers I'm not I'm not about you know the the mathematical stem side I think that they're like I said before there's a really really big disconnect between I mean especially in western culture because we have such a big you know disparity in our education and how we're learning I think that academia and science are just not accessible and so when you're taking knowledge that that could be accessible if you promoted it in the way that it is and you shared it and embraced it and celebrated it in its form in that true form instead you're placing numbers on it you're putting you're putting it through a very western and you know scientific lens you're inherently making it less accessible and so I think that overall it's just a series of problematic and contradicting impacts the intentions versus impacts and so I think you know at the base of it it all starts with with education and re rethinking the way that our institutions function with each other and you know acknowledging in every part of in every part of the world I mean this is this is very true acknowledging the you know trauma and and horrors and and just you know cultural and erasure of people and traditions that actually have a place in society and specifically with the climate crisis have solutions I don't think that those need to be communicated through science and numbers I think that as evidence it it can help the scientific community but okay I think there is but I mean the reality is that you know to to move politicians around the world or to get people to change your companies we need to sort of work through traditional media in a way like you said Gina you're working also through was it the television or you're also using you know media I mean how can we bring these two worlds together so we've got the issue of the older as meaning the older generations the younger generations and we have this audiences out there even like through social media I mean especially with COVID social media is even more important so how do you influence these audiences and these politicians using the modern means but maybe bringing out some of these traditional strengths that you're talking about I mean maybe Gina do you want to start on that and then Mina because you gave some good examples mean or maybe translating some of these traditional practices but from what Mina was saying many of the young people anyway have moved to the city so how do we bridge this gap the generational gap and then like like the traditional and say the social media to have more of an effect to bring these things forward Gina do you want to start do you do you mean me sorry yes Gigi sorry Gigi sorry Gigi sorry my name's there I think that I think I think I mean just like briefly touching on on Mina on Mina's point of like you know young people are moving to the city I mean that's that is you know because of everything that is trickled down upon you know indigenous peoples right like that's not that's usually because there has been some greater force usually governments that you know impose their own ideas and traditions and control over indigenous communities that end up creating that that sort of way of life where the traditional way of life is just not sustainable and I think that bridging this this gap between you know this older generation and you know like social media and then young people I mean I think we're already starting to see that right like with with COP26 coming up we see like a huge movement of young people coming into the scene and I I mean I have this view of indigenous peoples as well of that we should not be the ones who are burdened with educating people I believe that for young people too I mean it is also inherently problematic that young people are will accept the burden of what older generations do however we're the ones who have to educate especially in in policy and at a place like COP26 at the at the you know United Nations Climate Change Conference I think that things like art going back to just where my passions lie art is is really powerful right like we even when we see like Hamilton that is taking an inherently problematic narrative but kind of flipping it on its head and giving it a completely different lens right and so we start to think about education and history in different ways that are actually working towards finding these solutions and educating people in a in a way that is accessible and you know welcoming and it does not put the burden of of educating on just young people and on just traditional caregivers. Meena what do you think about this bridging the gap or how it can be done better I'm also looking at some questions coming in from the audience but maybe we can finish on that. Meena how do you think moving forward we can bridge you know between the generations and say using the modern media or how do you think it's the best way to influence? Yeah I think indigenous peoples are very dynamic yeah we we can also embrace knowledge from outside like like this modern knowledge with the smartphone for our communication indigenous peoples used in Indonesia also created started this movement called smartphone for communications so they use smartphone they learn how to use smartphone to write their stories to post it in their the stories and photos and also how to make an audio visual from their cell phone and use it for the campaign campaign about their activities about their initiative about their view and using social media like Facebook Instagram Twitter you know and and I think that is something that we can always of course this modern technology has an impact also to indigenous communities yeah but the the most important thing is I think for us is how to use this how to prevent the the negative impact and use the positive for for the benefit of protecting our land and territories I think the most important things from the the whole discussion is there is no culture without our land and territories there's no what sorry there is no culture without our land and territories the land and territories is the foundation of our culture if we lose our land if we lose our territories we will we will lose our identity because we lost our rituals we lost our dancing we will lose our singing we will lose our knowledge our managing knowledge in managing our territories so many things even the our astronomy knowledge on astronomy yeah the agriculture system so many things will be lost if we lose our land and territory so this is the most basic things so people I saw also some question talking about the arteries or the carbon market and everything we don't care about those what the most important things for indigenous peoples is the protection of our land and territories without that nothing else uh can come you know in few years ago indigenous peoples talk about no rights no right so it means we put our rights first everything else is behind that I think that was it no rights no what no rights no red red red that's few times a few years ago when the discussion about red was really like no rights no red okay in fact I see there's a question on there's some questions on here the red uh sorry I'm just looking now I'm just looking at the time okay it's really interesting points coming up and there's now a lot of comments coming in from the audience um would it be easier if I just read some a couple of the questions from the audience and then you guys take turns at answering it or how do you want to do this is that good um okay so let's do some of the questions from the audience okay so we've got uh hold on I'm just sort of something from bangladesh uh oh we've got some positions being shared sorry I'm just trying to find some direct questions guys in the audience if you want to ask some specific questions related to what we've just been saying because there's a lot of comments I don't know if you can post them again on the bottom we've got some comments on subsoil there was someone from bangladesh saying how can they is okay is there a requirement to rethink education for non-indigenous people which encourages I'm just looking at which encourages them for non-sustainable life in pursuit if you hello folks so if you could there's some really interesting comments but if you could frame it as a question sorry Samantha the questions are in the question and answer box not in the in the participant chat and they are famous questions oh right okay great there are two things no I just thank you thank you it's just different groups do different things okay so but people are asking do we have any pictures to promote that people want to share what can we do as a community this to promote and ensure indigenous community inclusivity on climate change I'm just looking here at the one from Barcala uh so sorry what is the question if you could keep your questions short and to the point um sorry I don't know if any of you have seen questions you'd like to pick up on here are you guys looking at the Q&A sorry oh we have a question for Fiona how are you looking at partnerships with these organizations so on trust and ethical standards uh with which yes with conservation organizations yeah I saw the question um well the main or conservation organizations like WWF, WCS, African parks don't actually have any kind of ethical standard unfortunately and what we do uh we have been pushing not them because um they well they say they have ethical standards but then it's not true on the field what we are trying to change in survival is the funding going to this organization so we are trying to push governments mainly um to adopt um very very important requirements when funding conservation projects because at the day of today everything that has the world conservation climate they just go there without any kind of control and what we are making sure is that governments always ensure that for any project even if linked to biodiversity there is the consent of indigenous peoples and the indigenous peoples rights are respected we are we are also trying to do is that all the new I don't know if you have heard about the 30 percent or climate finance or red plus project instead of all this project that sounds good on paper uh but of course are uh linked to western organizations instead of these as solutions for climate change what we are trying to push for uh from survival is to recognize first of all indigenous peoples territories that is the main that should be the main mechanism for protection of biodiversity and start looking as I keep repeating at what we are doing so we should be punishing all corporations for destroying the environment instead of creating more protected areas on the land of someone else okay that's clear um so we've got uh another question here thank you very much it is very clear that where there are indigenous people there is a forest it's very clear about the indigenous okay no that's not a question what does the panel think is the role of schools the world over to teach and revive lost indigenous value systems maybe we can start Mina do you want to talk about that what is what do you think is the role of schools in the world over teaching and reviving lost indigenous value systems well first of all we'd have to identify them right they'd have to be put in a teachable way I guess what how would you comment or answer that question on the role of schools well I think especially for the role of indigenous schools is really important because again I will say that it is a indigenous school is like a means of transmission of traditional knowledge from the elders to the youth even from the young age young very young age of children um but indigenous schools also comes in different form there is indigenous schools that is um managed with curriculums with the schedules and etc but also there is the most important things is also the living indigenous schools I think that is the most important things because that is the way of life when where where children can participate in daily activities of their parents their elders you know from the rituals from planting agriculture activities so they learn by doing so this is the most important living school is very important things although at this um in this time we face um the situation where the knowledge keeper is less and less these days you know many elders who have the knowledge already gone and we need an urgent transmission of this knowledge to the younger generations and it's not really a fast process so we need to do this uh by establishing more indigenous schools and ensuring this transmission through these schools but there's also another this is all another way to do we need to have more documentation of this knowledge and and and also ensuring these documentations become a living documentation too because documentation will will be useless if we don't practice it right so I mean how because the question is also how do we translate that the world over you know so that school children you know in France or Brazil or wherever they are they understand the importance of this I mean from what you're saying it's also linked to the land the practical knowledge I mean realistically how you know do you think it's important that children all over the world learn something about this indigenous knowledge and how would you even begin to categorize it I don't know um Gigi if you have any ideas about that also because you're living in a bit you know between both worlds yeah um I mean I think that and I touched upon this like a little bit I mean education is kind of the the first step I mean acknowledging and accepting is the is the first step but then education comes after that um I think that I mean especially in the United States we have a severe lack of truthful education around the actual history and founding of this country um and so anything that's built on top of that any you know learning that's done on top of that is is already just contributing to erasure and colonization um and so I think that um I think children are very smart human beings and I think that they are very very capable of learning hard information like tough information to swallow in in a way that you know uses rhetoric that that they can understand I I think that children are very capable of of taking on that information and and starting the decolonizing process of their own learning and of learning that they share you know with their classmates and others I think they're very capable of that um I think that we don't give them you know enough credit for being able to do that um but also our especially in the United States our education system is not is not geared towards actually educating on our history um and so again there's just there's a disconnect between the actual truth of of what is happening and then that what people are are learning um and I think that you know for me in higher ed and growing up with you know with the background of being American Indian I've gotten multiple sides of of the you know education system um and I'm able to identify its flaws in a way that's that's productive and effective um but not everyone has those tools because they they haven't grown up with them um and schools aren't teaching them and so I think that there is a you know institutionalized problem that we need to address I mean yeah that's because in fact the the person asking the question has said it's more about teaching indigenous values in for example western schools I mean if you were to pick the top three things that you think should be taught at school the world over I mean obviously and Mina you were saying more that it's more about the practice you know to not forget or to not lose some of these traditional practices in the traditional schools but if you would say what is like the top three things that should be taught about the value you know linked to indigenous what would it be Mina and then maybe we'll go around the table because that kind of summarizes what is it that people need to learn you said they're linked to the land I mean what would be the three things I mean for example my nephews they go to forest school where they're trying to learn about I don't know identifying mushrooms I mean I'm just saying really practically these are like about how would you translate this and something that school children the world over should learn about Mina I don't know if you want to start um I think it's the first thing we have to do is I'm sorry my go ahead I think the first thing we have to do is to introduce the the nature and and for us indigenous peoples to the the children to the students we actually we do we have program like this a few years ago we call it indigenous goes to schools it's it's not means like we schooling the indigenous peoples but we bring some indigenous peoples youth the indigenous youth to the schools in the cities like jakarta and and and they themselves explain about who they are and how their life uh to the to other students and we we we have like we we we have like us one day festival in that schools uh about indigenous peoples we have movies we have uh like a dancing lesson something like that just to introduce you know our our culture to the students and actually they really like it and they from from that they come out with um how do you say uh I know the words in english they they start to to they want to know more yeah about about this no and at the end they also start thinking about who is my ancestors you know we have this this is very interesting because then the students also start thinking about their own ancestors after our our program and and we can we can start by that by introducing uh our culture not not a difficult way first not don't talk about conflict first but talk about the relation between indigenous and and the the universe and the nature and how we've been protecting the nature and our connection with them the spiritual connections you know with more like um not not start with heavy things yeah or criminalization something like that no but start with that I think that is that can can bring uh curiosity that's the word I'm looking for curiosity from the students especially students in the cities and that can also bring the the curiosity to connect reconnect with the nature yeah that's a great idea and I mean especially now with COVID everyone's used to sort of seeing things I mean not everyone has the privilege of being you know if they're living in an urban school you know in London or New York you know they don't have the privilege always of even being even close to nature I mean maybe do you think there's a way that you could bring this connection of use around the world like through Zoom or where they can explain exactly as you say the link with nature you know what the spiritual the ancestors I mean there's a lot of interest in that do you think that that would be doable or is it unrealistic also Gigi I don't know do you think anyone in New York would be interested in you know that kind of thing I'm sorry to interrupt and Gigi as well Samantha just to let you know that some of the questions are on a google doc that I'll just place in the chat for you just just after yeah if you could summarize and just put put the question in a way that makes sense just so I don't make some silly statement because it's not my area of expertise but I love this idea I think my nephews would totally love it you know it'd be amazing I don't know Gigi do you think it's realistic in the US or people think it's ridiculous and then also Fiona is this something that's interesting to mobilize young people I mean we saw the impact you know just of one young person you know protesting I mean maybe this sharing is is that something that's realistic to mobilize people or you know with the art and with online for example can you repeat the first part of the question well it was you know I mean Mina was saying you know that it was really helpful saying Indonesia that they were able to bring people into the classroom saying Jakarta young people from indigenous communities I mean obviously not everyone has the opportunity or there's the way of making everyone travel in person do you think there's ways that we could link young people you know on zoom or virtually or do you think for example kids in New York wouldn't be interested in what indigenous kids are doing you know let's say on a reservation or back home or do you think that's not realistic yeah wow I mean I think that that I think that one thing that's really special with youth especially in today's technology is they're really eager to connect through this you know ether of the of the internet which is wonderful I think that I think that in places like California New York like Massachusetts I think there are relatively liberal and progressive ways of thinking and so I think that you know younger people who have had more of a balanced education would be really interested in that I know that a lot of my peers here definitely are and then they want to learn about the land they're on and they want to learn more about you know what's going on with like the indigenous student alliance here so I see it happening for myself I think the issue in lies with people who haven't received any sort of education that or learning or installment of like fundamental values that would create an openness to that I think that that is kind of the the barrier that that we're at of there are people that are listening and and choosing not to take action there are people that are listening and choosing to take action but then there's people who aren't listening and aren't interested you know working on decolonizing their their their selves in their mind in their community so I think that the answer to your question is yes and no I see change happening in my own community with my own peers and other you know youth that that I'm involved with but I think that that also stems from them being progressive individuals who are eager to learn in that way um you you can't force somebody to to try and understand you know your values and then your culture um they they won't enact positive change um if that's so but I mean I don't know I think I love the idea of say kids in England or France being able to learn about indigenous you know whether it's the art or the the snakes I mean you know people are really fascinated by the nature and as you say there's this idea this much closer thing of nature I don't know I think it's a fantastic idea I don't know whether it's like a global day when you can do or you know every six months where there's like the indigenous day and then the values and the spiritual as you were saying Mina you know and the ancestors the idea of these ancestors that are kind of up there or in nature I think it's a great idea I mean maybe it's happening but um you know especially if you can then link link in the the art I mean even now just looking at these nfts you know this non-fungible tokens where you know there's a lot of you see people are selling designs like from the Aboriginal I mean the Aboriginal communities in Australia have the most beautiful design it almost seems like these things should be belonging originally where they belong and then shared I mean I'm just thinking totally out there but I think it's a great idea right more questions on this um do we have an agroecology or nature-based solutions to developing cities regional solutions sorry am I not reading that correctly are you guys looking at the q&a's matha there's just a google doc that we've put together um with everyone's questions from the audience and I'm just piecing it to you in the chat okay so is this going in the q&a I think it's if we can just keep it on the q&a because otherwise it's quite difficult to keep track of all questions um okay we have we've got a lot of it with the people are really interested in this idea of the schools of passing on knowledge if you guys see another question you want to answer because there's quite a lot coming in here um are you guys looking at the questions I love the side of the indigenous school and sharing it virtually I think it's brilliant people would love it at least on in London my nephews would totally love it but I don't know how okay sorry can we get there are other questions coming up here uh we have the India 20 being displaced okay we need questions we've got comments coming in but we need some more questions um sorry I don't know who was speaking there if you have another question you want to put forward that you've seen from your google dots because I can't see it on here uh so there's a specific one for Fiori which is what our strategies are ways um there's another specific one for Fiori which is what our strategies are ways in which access to our ownership of indigenous land to their communities can be guaranteed that's one of them um okay all right we take two to two to go let's start with that one Fiori I can also copy paste it to you in case that's easier I I think I replied to that question in private but I can say it here um there is just one biting the legal tool to um about the recognition of indigenous people's land rights which is the ILO 169 uh that very few governments in Europe have rectified and and then there is a declaration of the UN on indigenous peoples um that also is a good instrument what we should be making sure is not only that or own government rectified uh the convention but that for every project or every even business that or every climate solution that might affect indigenous peoples land those standards are applying and their respect even of any agreement you know the European Commission signed an agreement with the Mercosur the ILO 169 should be part of the agreement which unfortunately is not the case but that is the best way to guarantee that indigenous people's rights are respected okay thank you do we have another question a short question uh I'm just going through these maybe yes Samantha maybe I can put a phrase one of the questions coming from the audience from Deepak Chetri yes please do that would be really helpful yeah he's asking if the legal protection laws for indigenous peoples uh for example article 370 is that enough to effectively protect the rights of of the land and its resources maybe that's something that Mina can answer if the legal protection that exists in different countries today is enough is sufficient well in Indonesia we don't have legal protection yet um we've been uh working in these past few years for legal protection for indigenous peoples uh indigenous peoples rights law is still being discussed now in the parliament and we are working closely uh with them on this just to ensure that the the content is really from our our for our from our side yeah and we we do have some rights recognized in some laws like uh uh traditional knowledge for example that is in the environmental law we do have recognition of indigenous peoples traditional rights traditional uh knowledge and also on the coastal areas and small islands uh law we have recognition of indigenous territories uh from in in small islands and uh coastal areas um and we have almost 100 uh local regulations that recognize indigenous peoples rights but uh but we don't have the the main law yet that we really need the indigenous peoples rights law the national law um some what if you ask that if these laws are enough strong enough to protect our rights no uh there are so many elements that makes all these laws so uh weak like the companies still have more power uh in in in our system they can influence the laws and regulations they have money to bribe our governments you know and and and they can even bribe the police or military and and this is I think happened everywhere in many indigenous land um we some but still we need to have this legal protection so at least we have something to defend ourselves and we're still working on that yeah but that's why I think this is why we need to work in in many different instrument including is uh international instrument and use many different opportunities to ensure our rights protected um but when people ask that we should not calculate our our value our indigenous knowledge for example uh when we talk about that it's not when I talk about that in the beginning it's not that we calculated for the benefit of getting money or something like that no but to put balance of our data with the scientist data uh to put balance of of our positions with the other positions like the companies positions or or or the government's positions no to to provide uh evidence of our contributions to climate change mitigation and adaptation that is why it is important because otherwise they will think that we are not exist we have to talk in their language sometimes people don't understand us because we don't talk in their language same as we we don't understand them because we don't they don't talk in our language so how we find this in in in comment uh so that that's why I think it's it's um it's important to to to to give to show evidence of our contributions in in in this context so thank you so we have another question here so which links to that is what can we do as a community to promote and ensure that indigenous communities are included on climate science and policy so not as a topic but as actors and decision makers so how do you make sure that the indigenous side is in there you know as a decision maker and an actor I mean for example is anyone working with Gretta or any are there any young youth leaders working with Gretta for example or is it all separate how do you make sure that they're included as decision makers and as actors not just as a side issue you ask who well whoever wants to answer just a quick comment on this actually now we together with many indigenous groups and in uh different part of the world we are working on campaigning for nature and community based solutions uh nature cannot cannot just be themselves and and become solutions but they need initiative from communities protection from communities no so so they can become solutions so community and nature and community based solutions is our for ourselves for our campaign now for the UNFCCC and and for any any international agenda Fiona did you want to add on that yeah I just want to say that a lot of climate activists um as I said are just focused on climate and they want to find only a solution to climate and the problem is that climate is not the for a lot of people is not really the biggest threat it is a big threat but the biggest threat has been the violation of the right and the human right for generations it's not something new climate is making everything worse but they are facing so many human right abuses and I think that if in the climate activists keep focusing on climate and not on the system that creates climate but also create uncertain numbers of injustice there won't be a very um a lot of link because so if climate is the problem every solution proposed to face climate change is good which is not the nature based solution for example who put a price on nature and on the land of indigenous people are a threat for indigenous people the compensation markets that solve parts of say to mitigate climate change are a problem for indigenous people planting trees on their land which are considered a nature based solution are a problem for indigenous people so I think that the focus of climate movement should be climate as something completely separate but always climate justice and social justice do things should be linked together and we should be talking more about human rights also when we talk about climate and I think until this human right issue and social justice wouldn't be completely inside a climate movement uh this dialogue won't be really uh possible so practically what do what would you say is the ask uh well I uh a lot of I am not generalizing like I of course I have deal with a lot of the people you are talking about but I won't give numbers but a lot of the people want states to commit to net zero for example uh which is something completely fake and dangerous uh I think that they have to speak out and they are doing it the more and more a lot of climate groups like extension rebellion they are all talking about the colonized conservation they are all talking about fake solutions so now the thing that this narrative is inside but the beginning the climate movement would just ask him uh the carbonizor economy face climate change we'd of course are big threats but the climate change is a consequent of a six of a system and we can't just solve climate change if we don't change a way of life and asking at a very um explicit critique criticisms toward our capitalist and or growth economy paradigm was not in the discourse of climate activists at the beginning now they're changing and I have to say that it's a good news so do you think that for example we need to have a young indigenous you know post a child like Greta to work with Greta I mean you know the public needs simple things that they can understand or do we need to do is for example some of the comments are saying we need to have an indigenous citizenship thing which all school children can sign up on where they learn the values of indigenous communities where they learn or they do as Mina was saying you know learn about each other on zoom I mean so practically speaking what are we talking about here that's going to help move the thing forward I don't understand why why it should be Greta or whoever I mean indigenous people have been fighting against climate change and the consequences for generations and I think we should have no lead that the climate movement is not a western movement I have been working with indigenous people and the organization I represent so me not so long but my organization for 30 years and indigenous people were talking about climate change along yeah but I'm saying do you need like a young indigenous person who to be a poster child to be kind of an equivalent or to work with Greta I'm just trying to think of something that because you know saying we've done it for 30 years I mean if it's still not out there as visible it's happening you're saying but what can be done to make things move forward people are very excited about the idea of school doing stuff across schools or as me saying was bringing a young person I mean I'm just trying to think of a way from a campaign point of view that you can bring it forward make it more visible yeah well we have been trying to for example we organize a counter congress uh against the count the congress of nature that has been done in Marseille which was a big congress and we have been pushing for these issues the problem is that the press is is not covering the issue because no one wants to cover the issue because any criticism toward climate solutions any criticism toward conservation is considered a criticism against environmental movement which is not and I think that if we depoliticize you know it's easy to talk about indigenous knowledge that sounds nice but that's it's not the issue the issue is the land is right land it's the right to the land and I think that if we if we want to bring attention about this we need to educate the people to understand that the solutions we are that first of all the solutions we are proposing against climate change are completely not going to work because it makes us feeling well but it's not something that's going to work we don't need to the poll I understand that people need simple messages but things are also complex and this climate is not unrelated it's not a thing separate from social justice so I think we need to educate education is of course very important but um and and how to do that the press has a very important role and and this webinar might have you know also important role uh so I think that we the work to do is not just linking indigenous communities with um activists here uh like in a in a webinar already just informing them of what is going on it's already you know a big issue I don't know if you any of you have accepted but I have been doing this work with a lot of climate movements a lot of times you know we meet and we talk and I think that this is it's part education is part of course of the of the of the real thing to do. Mina what do you think needs to happen do you think we need a young indigenous post a child to work with Greta to do this balance or to do more on education everyone seems very excited about the idea of their kids and doing something what do you think needs to happen to bring the visibility and to move things forward from a campaign point of view? I think everyone have their role yeah and I think we should grateful to have Greta to open the the apartment I think like provide the framing of of this and and and provide the opportunities uh for the youth to be more uh to have more voice and that's her role but I think I believe we we have our own role here like what we I already talked about indigenous youth in Indonesia have their own role in with their homecoming movement with uh uh uh smartphone movement I think everyone have their own and and we have to appreciate each role the of us that trying to to save the planet and I think um may apa more more local initiative I think it's much better yeah uh to talk about local more local initiative and and encourage more local initiative to to apa to start protecting planet but I really I had to say I really agree with Fiore because sometimes we lose we are lost in all these discussions about climate change people not seeing the real problem we have governance situations that corrupt governance we have the companies that encroaching our land and territories and they're not stopping of course they will use any things to to to protect their their businesses and it's happened everywhere even like someone talk about natural best solutions here as the companies campaign yes of course that's why I mean we need to to return to our basic problem that is actually not really much new problem from the from the from before and it's not it's not settled yet so we are moving from one problem it's not finished yet and then another problem and and uh I think we really need to go back and see uh where we are standing and go back to the basics yeah for me the protection of our rights on our land and territories that is the most important thing excellent and Gigi are you there I am Gigi I'm sorry to interrupt you again Samantha sorry um just to let you know that we are uh three minutes over time so I don't know yet I don't know if everyone just had some you know maybe last comments before we wrap up but I'll I'll let you take care of that thank you yeah all right Gigi if you have any comment or last comment I'd love to end on one of your another poem but um if everyone wants to have a closing comment maybe Gigi um yeah sure I mean I I just want to echo what Fiora Fiora and Nina have have been saying climate justice is a social issue um it is a it is a cultural issue it is what has been built upon um already like problematic and um like destructive histories and and and like foundings of of all of it it's all it's all inherently negative and and bad um and so like how do you work from there um I don't think that um I think Greta is who she is because of the media um and I think that if the same um the same you know way of of covering you know what indigenous people are doing was was extended to them I think that there would be a much like larger presence of you know indigenous people um in the media um but it's not because there is institutionalized systems that constantly work against us that's how it's been built that's how it is um how do we change that it indigenous people are already working on that they have been working on that it's a non-indigenous people that have to support them because systems of oppression work against us and they benefit others so the ones that it benefits it's their moral responsibility to and it's their moral imperative to absolutely help them in any way that they that they can um or at least that is that is my opinion um and so yeah I I don't think there needs to be a poster child um that feels rather like tokenizing and and also like not representative of an entire you know indigenous community that of the world let alone whatever community that this you know poster child is is from so yeah okay and um Fiona and then I'll let Mina have the last word did you want to say something quickly I love the subject of climate justice um did you have any comment on final closing comment Fiona and then we'll leave leave with Mina and now just that I um I would completely agree with with Gina Gigi and and Mina said and um I am very honoured to to be in this panel um talking about these important issues and and again I I will repeat it because I think it's very important uh you know talking about climate and environment without including social justice it's not possible there is won't be biodiversity and future for this world without human diversity and I think it's important to remember that. Mina anything I love the idea of climate justice sorry I'm new on this for me that's the first time I've heard it but it seems to encapsulate what would you say Mina as your closing comment? I think not really much but again land and right our rights and to land and territory is really important because that is the foundation of everything else including our culture and everything. Okay thank you very much and thank you I was hugely honoured I was called in at last minute because the original presenter poor thing he had a sudden emergency but it's been a huge privilege to hear all your wonderful comments and please please try and do something I think kids all over the world would absolutely love to have uh an indigenous exchange and to learn more about the values and what needs to be asked to get them mobilized as well so thank you very much everybody and uh good luck with this really important work on climate justice and more thank you thank you and also Gigi please share on social media your beautiful poems uh we'd love to share them they were absolutely inspiring thank you everyone and all your wonderful ideas thank you thank you everyone thank you Fiore Gigi thank you Mina Gigi and goodbye thank you thank you bye bye bye