 Hi everybody, I'm Roseanne from the Alcohol Free Lifestyle Programs. I am a coach for the Project 90 program. I do enrollment and client journey experiences and I'm sitting in for James Swannick today. Today I have with us Glen and Trish Granger from Lansing, Michigan. They've been married five years and Glen is how many days alcohol free, Glen? 102 days alcohol free. And today we're just going to talk about how relationships can become more connected as a result of going alcohol free. So thank you Trish for being here with us today too. I feel very blessed to have you. So all right, let's start Glen. We're just going to start with your journey with just alcohol. When did it start? That's a great question. I probably 15 or 20 years ago, maybe, you know, in terms of actual using alcohol as more of a, you know, kind of a relaxation as a tool as kind of a medication, self-medication. I mean, certainly in high school or even college, you know, I was a real party animal but I went to parties every now and again and drank more than I should. But for the most part that was kind of a common thing. But actually having it as part of a daily routine would have been in the last 15 or 20 years. And in the last probably, oh, I don't know, six or eight years thereabouts. I mean, I went through a challenging divorce. I guess that was probably nine years ago. And it just wasn't uncommon for me to open up a bottle of wine every night and then have maybe a second bottle or most of a second bottle, sometimes two bottles a night. And so, you know, about a year and a half ago, I did the 30-day program and that was good. But I didn't really stick with it. So when the 90-day program came around, I was ready to make the commitment. And thankfully it wasn't really, it really wasn't that hard. Once I made the choice, I guess it was helpful. And my wife has been very supportive. Right. And how old are you? I turned 60. Oh, okay, 60. So about 50 years old, it really ramped up, son. Yeah, I think so. It kind of ramped up in that timeframe, yeah. But prior to that, you just drank how much? Yeah, I think it was more of a weekend drinking or maybe going out. And I think if I look back, I've never really been great about just having one or two cocktails. Whenever I had the one, I was thinking, where am I getting excited? You know, it's kind of, it was just sort of me, it was always trying to get to the next drink, I think, and getting to that place of feeling, I guess, or whatever it was that I was looking for to, you know, to so relax. But as it ramped up, what the challenge was, partly there was this cycle of kind of anxiety, you know, it was, I wasn't like the classic, you know, the morning after drunk that said it got up and felt guilty. But I did feel sort of my blood pressure was higher. My heart rate, resting heart rate was higher. I just, there was elements of my health. And I do see a really good doctor, this kind of a homeopathic type of doctor, you know, he's not the, you know, let me just give you a medication for every illness. He prescribes vitamins just as much as he would, you know, an antibiotic if he needed to. So he had me going in for blood work. And my blood work was always, you know, high sugar levels and high, you know, it just was not a healthy, lipid profile. Everything was kind of off. I never really felt like I was, you know, on the brink of a heart attack or on the brink of really any kind of health crisis. But I did feel like I was compromised in my healthiness. And so that was a major reason to And this was going on for a while then for how many years that you were noticing your health being affected by it. Yes. Yeah. And the doctor was kind of good with me. Like I say, he would prescribe, you know, like a glutamine and some other things that were, you know, he was trying, he was kind of helping me to sort of wean myself from alcohol. I was very candid with him and he was candid with me. So yes, it was, I think that was one of the elements that prompted me to quit. And when you thought about your drinking, you didn't consider yourself an alcoholic per se, did you? I'm not really, you know, maybe at times that was kind of a thing that was crossing my mind and maybe other people that might have felt, I don't know if other people would have said that or not. I had a daughter that really had some substance abuse. I think they have a daughter that she's still with us. But she was in Arizona, incidentally out by you, but she in January 18th celebrated her fourth year of complete sobriety. So in her case, she had some substance problems and she went through, you know, very, very regimented detox program and she's very connected with AA and some other things. But no, that wasn't really the feeling that I had about it. However, I would also say that I spent a lot of money on wine and I felt like it wasn't like I felt I could just stop any moment. So, you know, I just didn't, I'm not really great with that label alcoholic. So yeah, I don't think a lot of us are. I mean, I know does work for plenty of people, but I know the people that come through our programs don't don't connect with that real well. So to say like even recovering alcohol and I've talked to my daughter about it, she's fine with it. She's very comfortable saying that about herself. To me, it's kind of starting by saying I'm, you know, sort of like I've got a defect a little bit and then it feels like it's not, it's not a place of, you know, a positive place to start. I'd rather feel that I have the control and that yes, I would choose not to be involved with alcohol anymore. You know, I just suddenly, it didn't really, I've been there, done that. It was something that at the time I was doing it, I felt, well, that's kind of, you know, I kind of enjoyed it. I guess there was a sort of this whole process of, you know, finding wines that you like. You get into that. And then, you know, James, I'd like his, the phrase, and I'm not sure he came up with this or not, but the idea that attractively packaged poison. More times than I can count, that has been a reminder to me when I, Trish will tell you, I'm a little bit of a consumer. I'm kind of the shopper in the family, I guess in a way, like we just were walking in one of those shops and I, you know, I went in and I bought some olive oil and vinegar and stuff that we got, we had, we're going to have for the Super Bowl and stuff. I kind of enjoyed the process of choosing and selecting and buying. And so wine, it really has all that in spades. You know, you go in there and you kind of just see the stuff and they tell you, oh, this one's kind of comes from this vineyard, you know, everything's got a story and bloody blood. So there's a little bit of that that kind of gets into my bones. And I think, well, that, I kind of missed that a little bit. But then I go, oh, it's just attractively packaged poison. I don't even really think I'll like the taste of it. So that. Yeah, yeah. So our drinking habits started increasing about 10 years ago and you met Trish about how many years ago? Seven. Seven. So about three years after you guys meet, Trish, I want to ask you, what did you notice about, well, you obviously connected very well because you ended up getting married. But what did you notice about his drinking habits when you first met? I mean, did anything show up for you? At first, I didn't think much about it because, you know, to me, it seemed like he was drinking just more social, you know, type. And, you know, at night having some wine, I didn't think much about it at first. But as we spent more time together, and then after we got married, I did notice that it was a lot. And I'm not a drinker. I don't really like the taste of it. Not much of a drinker. She's like a mojito or a margarita. But what's funny is she'll go, you know, like we'll go to a vacation and have one margarita. I'm sorry. I mean, I've never been able to have more than two drinks in a row. I will be like out cold. Like that's like all I can tolerate, you know, about alcohol. So for me, I did start noticing thinking, okay, this seems like a lot. And with his daughter, I mean, I was very concerned with her. I knew she was like so out of control. And so it did become, you know, where I would worry a lot. And I would worry a lot when he would be at an event without me. And I knew he was driving home. And I knew he'd be driving home after having some drinks. And that scared me a lot. I was very conscious of that. It made me very nervous. A lot of times at night, when he would drink too much, then he would just, you know, pass out or go to sleep. So I would be up the rest of the night by myself. And so that kind of started like, okay, this isn't good. I'm kind of, you know, living part of my life without him. Right. Because obviously it did, you know, have an effect when you drink, you know, especially if you drink a lot, you tend to go to sleep. Most people do, I think. Right, right. So, Glenn, I'll ask you first, how do you think it affected your demeanor with Trish? You know, just, I don't know, demeanor, I'm not sure how to respond. I mean, were you shorter, less interested? Well, yeah, definitely, definitely less interested and less available, which I think the word present, that I was less inclined, I guess, to want. And it was kind of interesting, you know, especially like during COVID, especially we got involved in some of these TV series, like everybody does, you know, and I'd go to bed and then she'd get like a series or two in front of me. And I'm like, what happened? Who did what? That's a total bummer. So I had to, you know, hang on, but I will compliment my wife and that there was not, she didn't really nag, there was not any, she didn't make a lot of commentary about my drinking. And I think just for my personality, that was helpful. I don't think, I don't think a person that's living next to another person that's a drinker can really influence, I don't know how they influence them, let me just say that. And I think there's a person that nags, I mean, I think you can almost do more harm than good. And so she had to sort of kind of watch me make the choice and make the decisions. She never tried to make that the decision for me. Nor did she say, hey, you got to quit drinking, you know, tomorrow, you know, anything like that. There was no ultimatums or anything. And I don't know that that would have been very positive for me. No, no, it usually isn't. So it's hard. Yeah. But as Glenn and I both experienced, we started developing a relationship with the alcohol. And I'm wondering, Trish, if that's what you felt, that he was having a relationship with something else other than you. I mean, it definitely took time away from me. You know, I did feel that. But I will say this, you know, and I've been around other people who are alcoholics. My father was an alcoholic. And Glenn was the kind of person when he drank, you know, he didn't get loud or mean or aggressive at all. You know, he still was very kind and considerate. So it wasn't like, you know, it was horrible being around him. You know, I just was more concerned about his health and well-being. I knew it wasn't a healthy habit. And, you know, it worried me that way. But yeah, I definitely took time away from our relationship. And I do notice now he's so much more present. Well, we'll get to that because I've been watching the Facebook post. So we'll get to that. Yeah, he's very present. The thing, the biggest takeaway for me, though, is he's more present with his children. He's, you know, before he was drinking a lot of times, if something came up with the kids, he just didn't want to deal with it. You know, I think he'd push it off to me, you know, because he just didn't want to deal with it. And so now, you know, he's kind of really stepped up and he is there for those kids and, you know, just kind of holding them accountable for everything they do. Right. And how many kids do you have one? And what are their ages? We have four combined. She has her daughter and three, we have three. So they're in their, they range, I think, 28 and 27 and 26 and 24 or something like that. So yeah. Yeah, I have the same range. So as you watch your children in those ages, I mean, do you ever think about how, well, your drinking started a little late? So I guess I would ask you. I think I should correct. I think I've always really had a little drinking in my lifestyle, but the more excessive use of it, yeah, started more late. And I do, like I say, I've had a daughter that struggled with it. My son clearly has struggled and maybe even struggles a little bit today. I think Emily probably does pretty well, her daughter, but, you know, they still party a little bit. And, you know, of course, kids now they smoke weed, I guess, now they think at all that. So it's a little different thing. But do you feel like doing this is, gives you the ability to be, you know, a positive role model for them? Like it can. You know, for example, we, I had a situation, we planned a family ski trip and it turned out that only my oldest daughter, the Janelle, the one that's been four years sober was the only one that was able to go. And yeah, it was a much better trip that we, we went to the resort and we didn't have to worry about that or I didn't have to worry about getting to the store and having alcohol and trying to, you know, sort of protect her from it or just so, yeah, it's a much, much better experience. And tell me about your work. You're an entrepreneur. You own your own construction company. But it's a family business. Okay. And so it was certainly established before I became involved. But I've been in the family organization since 1990. And the company operates in Michigan and Ohio mostly. And we build all kinds of cool things, commercial buildings and school and buildings and data centers, things for automotive companies, hospitals. So yeah, we, it's a very, very solid business that's been around for over 60 years now. Awesome. So tell me how was your drinking affecting your work at all? Yes and no. I, you know, thankfully it wasn't like keeping me away from getting to work on time. But clearly, it compromises you if you, you know, just to not get the amount of sleep or the good sleep, I think I get better sleep now. When I did go to sleep after drinking, you know, typically I'd wake up at three in the morning, pretty wide awake, you know. So you go to sleep at, you know, 11, you get up a couple times and then you have trouble and sometimes I have sweats and stuff. So, but thankfully, you know, I wasn't like a martini lunch kind of a person. I'm my drinking, you know, typically started at seven o'clock at night. And, you know, drink until I, you know, had felt, felt, you know, kind of the buzz and wanted to go to sleep. And that was kind of it. But I wasn't like I got up in the morning or did I, you know, not really a day drinker, thankfully, there's other, you know, I'm an enrollment coach. And so I like to ask, and we, we talk to a lot of people about, you know, where do you think you're operating on a scale of one to 10. And many people go, look, you know, I'm a high performer, I'm operating at an eight or nine, I go, okay, that's, that's the appearance that you're giving everybody else. Where do you believe you're operating? Oh, yeah. Yeah, because I mean, that's, that's why I asked, I answered a question kind of in two ways is that I don't think it was a noticeable thing. It wasn't like putting my job in jeopardy because I wasn't able to get to work on time or that kind of thing. But what happened, I think what, when I was drinking, there was always a sort of a limitation in terms of potential in terms of both clarity of thinking, in terms of physical performance, in terms of just being alert and being involved and engaged in what's happening. And, and that just is much, I'm not saying it's unlimited now, but it's certainly feels much more comfortable. And so I'm less distracted, if you will. I think a, a general people kind of comment that I'm not the most patient person in a, in a meeting or things like that. So that's not going to be some people are going to say, oh, Glenn's just off the charts patient now. And, you know, but, but I think, but I think it, I am realizing, you know, improvements better in that area in, in my company, you know, nobody, nobody builds a huge monument type building all by themselves. So it's, it's all about team. So it's not a, it's not like I'm the whiz bang visionary entrepreneur that if, if I wasn't there, it never happens. You know, I'm just part of a team that makes a lot of stuff happen and I'm much more reliable as a teammate as a result of the choice not to drink. Now you're, you joined project 90 and for those people listening, it's, you know, it's a coaching program and we don't spend a whole lot of time talking about drinking, do we? No, not really. Yeah, that's true. So we really talk about the things that are going on in our lives and how to manage stress better situations or realize the different types of people we're dealing with at work. Did you get anything out of the coaching with respect to tackling a problem any differently or any of that? Yeah, a lot of, I think, yeah, I think just the conversation, I mean, yes, there's always, I think the adages you want to surround yourself with people that are, you know, good, thoughtful and, you know, people that all want to, all want to improve themselves and that's definitely what you get in the mix in the project 90 group. You know, everybody in the group wants to improve themselves and part of that improvement is the choice not to have alcohol. Right. So with Kevin's coaching calls and the times we were on, you know, he used a lot of concepts in that power versus force, the readings that we did, I don't know, I guess we didn't really do them, but he referred to them. Explain what you mean by that because I don't think the people listening understand. One of the books was a book and I can't tell you the author, but Power Versus Force was one of the, remember the pyramid that he talked about that kind of the lower level moves and attitudes are about stress and anxiety and, you know, kind of some other things, but you try to move, move into a state of being more kind of more and kind of, I don't know if it's enlightened necessarily, but lighter in your feet and thinking about others and generous and other, you know, attitudes that you try to cultivate within yourself. And I thought that was all helpful and it was helpful to see others that, you know, yes, it's about me at one point I'm making this choice for me to get better, right, but I, but I'm learning how can I become a better person, hopefully in helping to elevate others in the group. And so those kinds of things, I think the teachings were helpful in that regard and encouraging and, you know, not necessarily earth shattering or novel, but yes, it's helpful to hear from people that are trying to take one step in front of the other to be a better person. Yeah, and I want to share with everybody about this. I call it the cone, the inverted cone, so it's upside down triangle, right, with the front part. And when you're operating with feelings at the bottom, like sadness, fear, anxiousness, whatever, you're making decisions and you're operating in a contracted state, right. And when you make decisions out of all those nasty feelings, it limits our ability to see what's possible. And when you when you can elevate yourself up that cone into an open state, it just open, it actually opens up the world because you present yourself as just a person who's at more peace, you know, with what they're doing and the decisions are making like that. So did you, so you use some of that stuff at work? So you expressed it much better than I was trying to, but yes, exactly. That was that is always helpful to be to hear from others and how that is working for people in their, you know, various situations. And so yeah, so I found the coaching to be helpful. I went through some, you know, in fact, there was, I probably would have to say that I used about, you know, 30% of the available stuff in there. I mean, there was so much more than I could have tapped into you. I've been on a little bit of a quest personally that I've been using a tool that's called Mind Valley that has some kind of development and educational components to it to help with sort of memory and some cognitive behavior type stuff. There's a there's another club that I was sort of an online thing called that's 30 days of excellence and it's sort of, you know, with your life resume type thing. So these all kind of fit together, thankfully for me to help. And meanwhile, Trisha and I are on this, on our first extended holiday vacation, but kind of a pre retirement kind of thing. I hope we'll see how it works out. But I was just going to transition there. And before I transition, I want to tell you the reason I know about that cone is I was at the bottom of it quite a lot. It came out a lot. And when at my discussions, you're operating in that contracted state. But no, I did want to end up here because I just want to share as somebody who's in Project 90 and you didn't participate as much in our Marco Polo, which is our video apps. Right. And that's fine because people do different things to get to where they need to be. And we allow for that individuality. But you did take advantage of posting inside our private Facebook group. And the thing that struck me because I didn't watch your journey through Marco Polo, I watched it through Facebook is is the joy that you had with Trish and your offerings and these really happy, happy places because you know how you can tell from a picture where somebody is like, I can go back to some pictures where I was smiling and that was not a smile. But I see that joy and that's why I wanted to invite Trish on this. So let's talk about what's going on post, you know, 90 and how this has improved your relationship and what you look at in life and what's important. And I'd love to hear from both of you on that. You go first. One thing I would like to comment on is since Glenn has stopped drinking, he has so much more energy. Before when we would be on vacation or doing activities, you know, he was it was hard because, you know, he couldn't like keep up with me. You know, I wanted to go, go, go. But his energy level was really low. And now it's really high. And now I find I'm trying to keep up with him. He's really pushing me now, which is so good. You know, physically, you know, activity wise, you know, every day we're, we're biking or walking or playing tennis or sightseeing. And we are on the go constantly. And before his program, you know, he wanted to be a couch potato and he was happy, you know, just sitting home every night. I love my naps. Yeah. And he loved his naps. He, you know, I didn't hear naps. Oh, you're naps. Okay. A lot of sleeping went on back in the day. And now it's just, it's so joyful because we are really, we actually are living life now. And it's really funny. I can't tell you how many people have commented in the last few months when they see my Facebook, my Facebook posts are like, Oh my gosh, you guys just look like you're so happy, you know, like they can feel the joy and the energy and, you know, it's, it's very noticeable. Yeah. And then how about Trish in terms of, I mean, if he's more available, then that means you guys are more connected, right? This is very more connected, yes. Yeah. So a lot more conversation wise, too, before it kind of was a little more shallow, you know. Operating from a contracted state maybe? Right, right. And now, you know, we get a little more deeper into subjects and, you know, kind of really, you know, dive a little deeper into whatever the kind, you know, it could be about a book. It could be about one of the kids, but it's, you know, not about politics. We don't agree on politics. But we just, it's just not a lot of fun stuff to talk about. But it's, it is definitely noticeable and it's interesting because my friends notice it, too. So I think that, yeah, well, and like I said, it's, it's one of the things that is so hard. And that's why we need to do these things and have these podcasts and give people hope that they're, they think they're leaving behind fun and joy. And what you're doing is just introducing it into your life, right? It is hard. And I think that that is probably the biggest misconception because when I've had a couple of opportunities to be around my friends that I normally would drink, like we went to the basketball game over at the, our friend's house and oh, even, oh, you weren't there when I went to Colorado. I was in Colorado when we were skiing. I brought in some Pellegrinos that were flavored and I had them at the door and, you know, normally we, they would greet me with a glass of wine or, you know, what do you have it? And I had, and I think, you know, maybe there was like three seconds of, oh, really, you're not drinking. And I'm like, yeah, but, but I had, I had so much, you know, much enjoyment and I, and I'm fine that they choose their other. I'm not trying, I'm not here to be a evangelical about other people's choices. But if people are in that position where they found it's not working for them, you know, make the decision and, and, and I think going for it for 90 days. And I think as I listen to people in our group, maybe you're on a couple of skulls group, Rosanne, it's that when somebody said, hey, I quit for, you know, maybe a hundred days. And I said, I'm just going to try it again. It wasn't, it wasn't helpful for a lot of those people. When I did the 30 day program, Trish and I had a trip that we were traveling on an airplane after the 30 days. And I kind of got thinking, oh, it'll be nice. And I'm going to have cocktails on the plane. And then, and I sort of slipped right back in relatively quickly to drinking again and being at the same place where it wasn't the greatest for me. And I'm, you know, again, there are people I know that can have a drink or two. And that just doesn't happen to be me. And so that wasn't me either. So I mean, and I don't, I don't, I don't regret that I can't have a drink or two. I don't have any, you know, I just know for, for me, I'm going to stay alcohol free in the indefinite future. I mean, you know, never say never, I guess for me that it just, it feels, it feels a little bit of that kind of constricting even to say, I'll never do it again. But I don't know why I will. I just feel good not doing it. And it feels every day I make that choice. It feels better. And it is fun. We have so much more energy, so much more time together. And in whatever I'm doing, whether it's, you know, with nutritional goals or with, you know, social goals or with, you know, I think there's all these different buckets that we all have, right? You know, family, social, fitness oriented nutrition, spiritual, all of those areas I can move and advance in my progress in, I can move forward in and not say, oh, I'm limited because I don't feel good or because I need a drink or because I'm, you know, all of those areas I feel I'm getting the full capacity of, of my growth in those areas and not feeling limited by the fact because I think alcohol is also a, an easy excuse. Well, I can't really perform 100%. I can't be the best of my best because I had drinks the other day. I don't feel that at all. I feel like I could do the best to get new now. Right. And I just love what you're pointing out there. And that's what we, we do best inside of Project 90 is teach you that it is a choice. You know, you don't, you don't have to choose it forever, but we give you evidence. And you have plenty of evidence. Right. That life is much better without it. So, you know, you can always think about it. I probably will cross your mind in months four and five. By the way, it didn't mind though I was committed. But the evidence is so powerful to how our lives are the trajectory of our life being so much better that, you know, knowing that the alcohol doesn't have power over you, you have power over it. And I love hearing you say that you have a choice. And it's what it is. Well, you two love birds. One quick survey before we go. We got these bicycles that we can ride around together in. And at the end, we have our old helmets. And by the way, huge advocate for helmets. Take care of your brain, you know, no sense. So anyway, so we have helmets. But in the bike shop, as we got them, they said, we had these helmets over here, and they have a two-way radio system in there. And, and I thought, and initially, I thought that was the dumbest thing you could ever think of. But it's actually been kind of nice. We turn the radios on. It's like, I'll say, hey, Trish, I'm going to go left up here or get behind. So anyway, our marriage has survived the two-way radios. So that's amazing. I love, I love it. I hope you two continue to keep posting in our private Marco Polos. I know you're enjoying kind of a retired Rendezvous hit there in La Jolla, California. And Trish, I just really appreciate it because we don't, we don't get spouses on here very often. I hope we do. But it's really important to understand the perspective of the person who's, you know, experiencing that and what they see too. So I really appreciate your perspective. So. And I would tell any spouse out there, just be patient. I think that's key. You just have to be patient and don't push too hard. And just. How often did you push? I'm curious. Not a lot. I mean, I would voice my opinion when I thought, you know, it needed to be, but I do know him very well. And when I push and nag, he does just the opposite. Well, I would a lot of times just try to, you know, kind of monitor and, you know, there were times when we would be out and about. And I'd say, okay, let's, let's go. It's, you know, it's enough. It's time, but never, you know, never to the point where I never felt like it got so bad that, you know, I really needed to step in and take control. You know, but I think what you did is the right thing. It wasn't about judging him. It was about caring about him and his health and his well-being and, you know, what might happen next. There's a lot of shame that can happen with respect to our actions too. When we drink too much, you know, I doubt any of us are, or all of us are guilty of that, right? And sometimes it doesn't even take a lot, but there's, there's, when people seek help, there's usually at least a couple of instances where there's some, some guilt and shame involved in, and trying to come to terms with making this decision. So anyway, I appreciate you both coming on and I wish you the best in your continued journey. So thank you. All right, have a good day. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Free Lifestyle podcast. I want to load you up with some free stuff right now. So if you want to go to JamesSwanick.com slash guide, I will send you my quit alcohol guide, which has helped six figure entrepreneurs and top professionals produce or quit drinking. You can also text the word quit guide to the number 44222 if you're in the US, of course, it doesn't really work anywhere outside of the US. But if you're in the US on your mobile phone and you'd like that guide, text the word quit guide to the number 44222, or you can go to JamesSwanick.com slash guide. 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