 Welcome back to the breakfast and plus CV Africa and now we're heading straight to our second conversation Well, we look at the misuse of security votes by governors of the Federation I'm talking about the 36 states right now. Now again, this has also been, you know, a major, you know, conversation I remember the time where syrup had also urged, you know, the president to scrap and also asked that we scrub You know security votes also again, you also have syrup urging that there should be an investigation into this systematic and mismanagement of security votes by governor, governors of the state from 1999 up until this moment. We do have a fine gentleman who'll be joining the conversation this morning Barista Kola Oluwadari, who is the deputy director of syrup. Good morning. Thank you for joining us All right, we also have a public relation consultant Mohammed Abdulahi. Good morning and thank you for joining us as well Good morning. Okay. So I said of the conversation with Kola Oluwadari. Let's talk about it You are the deputy director of syrup What's actually the brain behind asking that we investigate the mismanagement of security votes by governors from 1999 up until date Christmas Day and this media speech to the endearment Now we get set by the interests of the endearment of that Now security is paramount It's part of the fact that we need And that is part of the reason of the outspending on security and the reality of the point that we've seen in that year and it's going to be good in 2022 And this is what you mentioned earlier It's not new, at least from a system as we've all heard about I think it's more of an advocacy rather than a conversation Since we do not hear the same in the background And security votes for context is this huge amount of money that is earned across all tiers and overall levels of government Which is not statically provided for It is not media framework that allows it Yet in terms of monies we pay that every year And from a transparent international report that was written in 2018 It says more than 241 million are spread out annually And that is in 2018 by the way I do not have the figures for 2021 or 2022 Of course nature is suspected that that is true And as the name sounds the moment later says security votes So the natural question to ask is How is this money being spent in the face of growing the security in Ontario And that brings up the subject once again To win it to spend this much To win it to face very little Given the fact that it has no satisfactory backing And looking at the huge amount of money we spend on it and the reality around it Of course it should be scrapped And that brings us to the all important topic What about the ones that have been earned over the years and paid out How have they been spent, how have they been managed And for a president that came on board on the mantra of fighting corruption At least the president can do at this time Which he also have done over the years by the way Is not only to scrap the payment of security votes Which he has also But to ensure that there is an investigation around These funds have been spent and spent over the years And that he would mean that the act of a general contribution Is in a very important position to do this To make sure that all of this is done by the federation All right Mr. Lord Dary We're going to come back to you You've also noticed on your social media platform When Serap did post your decision to of course Urge the president to investigate There was a little bit of backlash Some people of course have made it seem like Serap didn't know exactly what it was talking about And did it understand the constitution So I hope that you can speak on that very briefly before we go on But Mohammed Abdullah here let's come to you now Help us understand what the defense would be For these governors who collect these amounts of money 241 billion Naira in a year Going out to security votes is mind-blowing So Mr. Abdullah, you share with us What would the governors say that they use these funds for? There's absolutely no defense Because like Mr. Uluwade Agarati said There is no legal backing Even the constitution I'm not a lawyer but I remember in 2016 also A legal luminary Robert Clark essay Mentioned the fact that there was no way in the 1999 constitution That there is any mention of security vote Either for the president or even for the governors Or anybody whatsoever And in fact He mentioned, if I could recollect very well That this was an offshoot of The military regime It was something that was brought into A power by military regime In order to checkmate cool plotters So there was no way that it was mentioned In the 1999 constitution That we currently operate So in the first instance It is illegal There is no legal backing whatsoever So to come back to your question What made it worse Is the fact that there is even no accountability The security vote Nobody accounts for it You can't ask any question So it is just blank You understand what I'm saying So there is no defense whatsoever Either for the president Or for the governors Who are receiving this huge amount Imagine what 241 billion in a year Could do in our health sector Or in our dilapidated educational sector Or whatsoever You understand So there is no defense whatsoever In my own opinion Is one jamboree That needed to be scrapped entirely Because it is an avenue for incessant looting Because you don't You are not bad by law To account for Even if it's one penny you are collecting So why should we continue operating Such system that allow for T3 That allow for looting That allow for just blatant stealing Of public treasury I think there is no defense whatsoever Okay, let's bring Oluwa Dari Back to the conversation At this point in time Should we be talking about Scrapping the security votes For governors or investigating Or asking for accountability Which of this should we be considering So Oluwa Dari can hear us Yes, I can hear you So the question now is At this point Should we be asking That we scrap security votes For governors Or ask for investigation Or act for accountability Thank you very much Both actually And the advocacy for both Has been known for a while Not only from Seraph But by well-meaning citizens as well Particularly on the part of Seraph We have a friendly integration Of this issue as well Like the federal high court So at the same time The advocacy can be carried on For a second, concurrently Security votes should be scrapped For meanwhile What about the world that we now know about Which is the basis of the latest Of the president Even if security votes Were to be scrapped today It is a fact that From 1989 When we started this democracy It has been paid out to governors So why can we not have investigations Into hours and months Have been spent over the years And curiously For a government that is That's the proportionate part Corruption In our economic position The 2020 budget That signed by the president As more than 6 trillion Justice How is it supposed to finance that Without going that far And like Mr. Mohammed had said You can imagine What 241 billion we do And that was at that time In 2018 Could do To have sent our budget deficit Particularly Our spending on security And when you look at The context of where we are today Nearly all the anti-corruption Included the army itself Complains of positive forms And so Couldn't these forms That have been paid out to governors Be better used To fight security By giving it to those That need it really the most And talking about the military And all that paramilitary agency That really need to To fight them To do what they do To ensure that they are Just secure So we can carry on The advocacy to demand For accountability Of those that they aren't Those that are still behind Why we also carry on the call For you to describe And more importantly For proper context From the transparent international report It's quite ironic Almost like a paradox That in the 2018 budget The budget of the Niger army Was more than 155 billion there And that makes Means that security votes Not as security votes Paid out in the 2018 budget Is more than even the budget Of the Niger army Is that not curious It just doesn't make sense All right, Mr. Alouadari I think you both should be able to speak on this As briefly as possible I noticed that there was some backlash Like I mentioned with your post On your social media page Concerning this issue A lot of people questioned Why Serap is asking the president When he should instead direct Its conversation to State houses of assembly And the auditing That should be done At the state level Not at the federal level So I want you to share Your view on that one And then also Can the government really Ask governors to stop Receiving security votes Is there any political will That you've seen in Nigeria's history That will be able to take That money from the governors Mr. Alouadari I want you to start for us In one minute if you can Thank you very much I like the fact that You talked of political will And the president is That's why he's the president And he's elected On the mantra of fighting corruption And that is why he can appropriately Struck the attitude Of the federal government To take the step Importantly because There is no statutory backing For these laws So which laws will the State houses assembly make Or repeal In the absence Of any statutory permission Either in the constitution Or even at the state level State laws So this does not concern The governors on the state Of assembly and the case may be This should happen At the highest level possible Including from the president Who also needs to set The president by declining To the political center To account for what he has done Where he was Why he was corrupt And to speak as to the political Will That political will Truth be told Is absent In this present administration There should be more Against corruption And that should be A late back class Of social media Who would appear That people Are either the same form Or only understand The context Of the political You know what I'm saying Mr. Abdullah You also You know the same question Of political will And also You know should the state As of assembly Also be able to Look into these things I agree with Mr. Abdullah The political will is very lacking But we With the recent Letter by Sarah They as an organization Have done their bit So we see Particularly when this Government came into power With the mantra Of fighting corruption Who also Would like to see The president take the Bull by the horn By saying Okay fine Probably this has been illegal I wasn't informed And so on and so forth Let's stop this And let's account For what we have Collected in the past And let's put Mechanism in place Measures in place To stop this And make this Very Make this You know Illegal So that Government to come Because you have Less than two years to go You can set the President by putting In place laws That will ensure This topic Of security But I think It's very possible If the president Is really serious About the anti-corruption War That he's talking about That brought him to power Okay so But let's also Quickly talk about This one now The fact that There would always be Argument from the Governors that They're not Chief security Officers of their state And constantly We see that You know The fact that You're collecting Security votes So how do we explain The constant In You know The country Different states Of the federation With the security Votes that are being Collected Call out Lua Dari I'd like you to Share your thoughts On this one Thank you very much It goes To the heart Of the Discussion Of the Conversation Of the Presidency The facts Of the Government Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not Just not the root causes of insecurity in the first place, which means we're talking about good roads, and talking about the basic infrastructure like health, education, portable water, and the likes. That will go in long ways to help security, while the security agencies can do the actual part of entirely fighting insecurity. So what we've seen is that the monies that can be given to the security forces to fight insecurity are given to the governments who, ideally, should use it to address the economic problems in their different states. But they do not do that. They purpose to spend the money on spreading the state. Really, we have called them the chief security officer of the state. Who is in the best position to defend the state both internally and externally? Externally, that belongs to the many. Internally, that's the work of the police. How does that function of the government as a government in the state, in particular, in the absence of any kind of state to restructure? All right. One of the things that was also mentioned was that some of these governors use these funds. And we're talking billions and billions of Naira for political campaigns and for their own personal use. And it's just really, really shocking, thinking back at how much money has been expended in this regard since 1999. And past governors have simply just gone away without questions asked. So, Mr. Abdullah, in 30 seconds, tell me a little bit about how you feel concerning that these funds are really just used for personal use. Is there a reason? Is there a reason? It's really, it's really saddening because, like I mentioned earlier, just imagine what those, I'm sure, from 1999 to date, it will amount to trillions of Naira. Just imagine what those, what that kind of money would have done to, you know, our lack of infrastructure and so on and so forth. But again, I was mentioned, going back to the question of the lady earlier. Now, even when the governors are receiving this security vote, what have they shown for it? That they are receiving it at the moment for the past 10 years or so. So, there is no need. Since there is an absent of state security infrastructure, I don't see any need for the state governors, particularly to receive, to continue receiving security vote. Because, like Mr. Abdullah said, the military, the police and so on are all federal infrastructures. So, why not use such money to continue to fund the police and the military better rather than underfunding the actual structure that is supposed to take your security and giving it out to governors who will never account for it, who by law are not held to account. All right. Mohammad Abdullah and of course Kola Uluwadari. Thank you both for speaking with us. We hope that the conversation never dies, you know, until of course something is actually done. But thank you of course for joining us this morning and for sharing your thoughts with us. Have a great day ahead. All right. And that's where we will be saying goodbye this morning. Once again, I hope the conversation never dies. This is a very, very important conversations that should create, you know, at least start the minds of Nigerians across the country. For now, join us on our social media platforms and simply at Plus TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram, same with our YouTube channel and also Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Osao Ghee, Oghbama. And I am Merci Boko to have a fantastic day ahead.