 Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re-invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. Welcome back everyone, CUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for AWS re-invent 2019. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante. We're here extracting the signal from the noise with CUBE coverage for three days. Our next two guests, Mark Lohmeyer, Senior Vice President, General Manager, Cloud Platform Business Unit for VMware, Ben Tanner, Director of Cloud Enable for IHS Market. Guys, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Good to see you again. Yeah, great to be here again. You got a customer here, customer momentum story. Before we get into that, I want to just get your quick take on the keynote from Andy Jazzy. Clearly, the VMware relationship with AWS really paying off well. Dave's going to dig into some customer spending data in the marketplace. Great momentum. I mean, looking back a few years when you guys launched this. I mean, come on. You got to be happy. Yeah, we're pleased. I mean, I think, as you said, the partnership has never been stronger. And I think the foundation of that is really the tremendous customer demand we're seeing for the service. And this initial idea that Pat and Andy had together of how do we create the best of both worlds here, right? The enterprise-class capabilities of VMware combined with everything customers love about the AWS Cloud. I think it's really come to fruition. And what's been great to sort of see over the last two years is really the customer momentum and the use cases and the way they're able to take advantage of that service to really solve some really big challenges for their business, right? And for it to become a platform for them for innovation. So really pleased to see that momentum. Ben, talk about your use case. You have to see the story here to reinvent is don't tire kick the cloud. You got to kind of go all in as Jazzy would say, but you've got to leverage the transformational aspects of the scale. But when you get in the reality, which you live, you know, talk about what's real about the cloud. It's, I mean, you know, I just marked it all hard. We're an information company, data is king to us. So, you know, it's very hard for us to be part in on the cloud. You know, we have a data gravity problem. So how do we get our workloads there without necessarily having to refact them? How do we do it with a way that we can minimize the risk? So for me, you know, getting all in on the cloud means getting the data to the cloud and enabling the developers to work in a way that's going to deliver business value quicker to our customers. That's really where VMC kind of helps bridge that gap for us, I think. Originally, we were looking at it as like a short-term capacity burst venue, but then we look under the covers and say, actually, you know, we can go build and brace to VMC and really get to the cloud quicker. VMC VMware Cloud. VMware Cloud made it. Sorry, yeah. I want to make sure I get it out there. I want to dive in on some of the spending data that we have access to from ETR, Enterprise Technology Research. And essentially they do these quarterly surveys. And in a survey, the most recent one, there was 1,300 people who responded, 700 AWS customers, of which 150 said, we are spending heavily on VMware Cloud on AWS. So my first question is, to what do you attribute sort of the momentum? Maybe you could give us the update there and then I want to follow up. I was just going to build on some of Ben's comments because I think what he articulated is one of the killer use cases of VMware Cloud on AWS that I think is driving that momentum, right? Which is, we think it's one of the best solutions in the marketplace and customers have told us this to enable them to migrate and modernize, right? So let's talk about the migrate piece first, right? When you have customers that have these tremendous enterprise class applications running on vSphere and their data centers, they're built on top of that platform, they depend upon it for performance, availability, everything else. With VMware Cloud on AWS, we can migrate those applications with zero downtime, no refactoring, no additional costs in a matter of weeks or months, as opposed to if you had to refactor everything to take years and millions of dollars, right? So that cloud migration use case, I would say is the killer for us and that's exactly what Ben was referring to. We got a special report on SiliconANGLE.com called The Great Migration and it's about cloud. Talk about this particular issue because this is like top of mind of everybody. How do you do it right if you're a VMware customer? What do you pay attention to? What are some of the things that you learned and what are the things to watch out for? That's a great question. Ultimately, you have to listen to your customers. So for me, that's our development community and then we're within IHS market and then ultimately they're customers. So we cover like three broad sectors, oil and gas, the energy division, we have the transportation division, then we have our financial services division. So each one of those divisions has got a different risk appetite. So depending on that appetite, we'll very much govern how we take the approach of moving to the cloud. We've done the classic lift and shift using tools like VMware's HCX. We actually as a kick the tire as we moved 1,000 workloads in six weeks into VMC, which was kind of exciting. We enjoyed that. And then in other areas, we're looking at, well, we don't want to take all that technical debt that lives in our data center with us. So can we do what we call a lift and fix approach where we'll leverage sort of private cloud automation tooling, build over VMC to rapidly spin up new workloads there, but without changing our operating model. And then that's one of the big things I call out about VMC. It allows you to get into that public cloud space without having to drastically change how IT operates. And then you can start to shift to more of that public cloud focus. So there's really that lift and shift, lift and fix. And then where we're developing new capabilities or where there is definite business value. And that's the key thing, refactor for cloud native. So it's a spectrum of. So you ultimately want to change your operating model just not today. No, I think I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it in a big bang. You know, that's very disruptive. While we're doing that, where it takes our focus off away from delivering business value. So we're trying to find a way to do it in a more incremental manner. And VMCs, or VMware Cloud Native OS is one of the things that's going to help us do that. And you guys looking at Amazon's other services because you're now in AWS. Well, we're a heavy Amazon customer as it stands. So we have a lot of cloud native apps going out there. It was really interesting today, seeing where they're going with the HPC workloads, particularly where we're starting to look at ML and AI. We have a data lake program that's at an AWS. So for our new developments, we're definitely embracing cloud native, but very much in the sort of hybrid cloud methodology with VMC. Well, Ben, I want to get your take on a meme that we've been kicking around all week around cloud native. The T is we take the T out, which stands for trust. It's cloud naive. So a lot of customers are trying to do their own cloud. They got a factor into all these operational disruptions. You have staff issues. You have costs and inefficiencies that kick in, disruption, development choices. So where's the naivety? Where's the native savvy? Where should people start thinking about when they start moving to the cloud? It's a maturity conversation ultimately. I think if we look at certainly within IHS market, we've very much grown by acquisition. We have different sort of cultures within the firm. We have 650, 700 products, 700 different ways of doing things sometimes. And they've all gone to the public cloud of different rates and in different ways. So for us, it was assuming that we could do that in a manageable, controlled cost, safely governed way. And really understanding that, you know, you can't go out there as individual dev teams and expect it all to be perfect. We need to start building almost a cloud community within the company and then start into layering governance. But again, that's actually, you say take the T out trust. We within IT, we have to build up trust with the product teams because I think why they go to the cloud is sometimes because IT hasn't been able to deliver on its, you know, its customer's expectations. So- Can't move fast enough. Yeah, exactly, yeah. And, you know, we're never going to be able to compete with the likes of Amazon or VMware in security, in functionality, in scalability. Why would we try to compete? Let's embrace that, extend, enable it and really try to give our customers a, you know, a consistent, delightful experience. So Ben, where are you placing your bets? Obviously cloud, hybrid, those are two things. Any other places where you're really trying to focus? I think that's interesting. Again, it's, my job is to, you know, make life easy for my developers. So what do they need? And this is something that we're going through, you know, internal transformation, starting to run IT more like a product management organization and actively listening and soliciting feedback and really delivering what they need. So, you know, we're getting a lot of tool-grant containers. What are our plays going to be in that space? So some of the development teams want that. Some of them want to go and embrace the new stuff like Fargate and EKS and that's great as well. But ultimately, I want to get out of tickets in white states and get out of the way of the developers. I want to ask you a question around developers because one of the trends we're seeing and we're kind of picking out of the announcements is, if you look at the DevOps movement that started roughly around 2007, 2008, 2009 timeframe, that early wave of pioneers created infrastructure as code. That essentially became, I don't want to configure the software, operating models like VMware, make it easy, things are just running under the covers. Now with the data modeling you're seeing, if you've got large scale infrastructure, you're seeing now all these data tooling. So there's almost a data as code kind of theme going on here where developers just want to access the data. They don't want to have to get into the wrangling. I think that's where we're sort of seeing things like Data Lake come to the forefront. You know, again, I just marked information company. How do we pool all that information together in a way that, you know, creates new business value, creates new ideas, you know, broad ease of access for our developers and our customers. But at the same time, how do we protect things like data sovereignty? You know, if we've got PII data out there, you know, we have to think about that with our automotive customers. You know, you've got different state legislation. So again, it's how do we as the IT and the sort of the development community facilitate broad safe access to data? And I like, you know, data as a service. Yeah, I need apps, yeah, absolutely. So Mark, as customers move to the cloud and they want to change their operating model, what role is VMware playing in terms of facilitating that? Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting. You said you wanted to make life as easy as possible for the developers, right? And I think we want to make life as easy as possible for Ben and IT so that he can make it easy for developers. And I think, you know, one of the ways that we look to do that is, and the way I think about it is, we want to provide, you know, him and customers like him the broadest, most powerful toolkit that they can choose from, right? As they're enabling their developers. And, you know, if you think about VMware cloud and AWS, it can actually enable that, right? Because you have access to all of the VMware tools and capabilities, not just for your existing workloads, but also for modernized applications with things like Kubernetes and some of the capabilities we're bringing to bear there. So we provide all of those services in the VMware environment. But then we also allow their IT teams and their development teams to also have access to all the native AWS services and some of the data tools that they might want to leverage from AWS. All in a single environment. So it's not your core VMware, and then you've got Naia Pivotal. That's right. For the developer angle, and you got to get all the security acquisitions you've made, not the least of which is carbon black. So that's the package that you're delivering to your customers. Absolutely, right? Yeah, and we want to do all of that obviously as a service on top of AWS, right? Bringing that same sort of simplicity of operations for all of those capabilities. Mark, talk about what's coming next for you guys at VMware and the cloud platform. Obviously we saw that outposts, native outposts, which is Amazon shipping available now. 2020, we're going to see VMware on AWS, VMware cloud on AWS, roughly shipping behind it. So that's looking like good news too. Architectural shifts are happening. Can you share any insights into what's next for you and your team? Yeah, I mean, it's a really exciting time, right? Because I think, look at this point, I think the customers have spoken, it's a hybrid cloud world, right? They want to have the flexibility to run apps across their own data centers, across public clouds, across edge environments. It's a hybrid cloud world. Even AWS agrees. Yeah, even AWS agrees, right? And, you know, at VMware as a company, we're looking to really enable the most seamless, most consistent hybrid cloud experience. Obviously we're the standard in most enterprise customers data centers today with VMware cloud on AWS. We're bringing that capability to AWS. And then we're really excited, of course, about VMware cloud on AWS outposts, because we can now bring that same cloud-delivered model back on-prem and into edge environments, right? And so we think that full set of services, right? What you have in your data center today, what you can do on AWS with VMC and now back on-prem is, it opens up a lot of possibilities for customers like HHS. And Jassy kind of hinted at it. Well, he talks suspiciously about networking in context of 5G latency, different use cases around latency. So networking is going to be a big thing. I mean, networking, if you think about a hybrid cloud world, right? I mean, networking is kind of at the heart of it, right? And if you look at technologies like NSX, right? That gives you a consistent software networking layer that can work across any hardware on-prem. Obviously it's the heart of VMware cloud on AWS. Also in outposts, it's a really important construct that fundamentally enables things like this seamless migration of workloads between these different environments. On open source as well. Guys, thanks for coming on. Final word, your thoughts on the keynote, your presence here at AWS, what's your takeaway from the day one? I think for me, for day one, it's really excited to see the developments in things like the, I said, the HPC piece, how that's going to enable us as a customer to do more with things like AI and ML. I think for me, outposts really fascinating. We were talking about this earlier, where we've got regulatory requirements, performance requirements. We can still deliver that consistent experience in the cloud, in the data center. So those for me are going to be potentially really transformative. This really highlights what we've been debating. I haven't challenged Gelsinger, Pat Gelsinger and CEO of VMware 2013 about hybrid being a halfway house to the public cloud. He's like, what are you talking about? It is the model. Pat, if you're watching, you were right. I was wrong, I admit it. But multi-cloud, hybrid cloud, certainly visibility, but the cloud is an operating model. And what Jassy's saying, and what Microsoft and others are saying is, hey, the cloud is the operating model, not the old way. So center of gravity is cloud, but the on premise for these specific things like governance, compliance, use cases, this is the new normal. This is very clear. No one debates this. Congratulations. Congratulations on your success to say hello to Raghu and the team. Well do. Thanks for coming on VMware and customer momentum. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Hey, there's re-invent. Be back with the coverage after this short break.