 So, could you tell us a bit more about why you are pursuing a net-zero goal? What are the benefits and why is this important to you? I think it's super central from a very basic perspective and that's for a utility to stay competitive. Our strong belief is that moving ahead of the curve is the best way to create a competitive advantage and the opposite to weight with and hope that to be a laggard is a survivable strategy within this super, super dangerous. So, it's to stay competitive. What positive action is your company taking already that is driving the change needed to make net-zero a reality? We're taking a lot of initiatives in this direction over the years and just recently we took part in the auction, coal auction in Germany so we have closed our coal plant, Norberg, quite recently but there are many, many, many parts of it, so that's reducing emissions. We're also investing very heavily in wind, we're very active in immobility so both on the reducing and building the renewable side we invest essentially all our growth capital into renewables. Obviously, we've just talked a bit about the benefits of pursuing a net-zero goal but when it comes to the challenges, what do you see as the most significant hurdle when it comes to companies achieving net-zero? How have you been able to overcome this? I think it's a lot about being convinced that it's economically feasible the reality for many companies is that to dare to do it because you can be convinced as an individual that this is the way you have to go but at the same time your company needs to be economically viable this year, the year after and the year after and when you look at some of the changes that you need to make it might be actually difficult to combine these two perspectives and that takes quite a lot of a mindset shift to dare to take that shift and partnering is so important because policies help to reduce the risk and partnering also can help you to reduce the risk and increase your abilities and potential to succeed. What do you know now that you wish you'd known before when you started strategising and planning for a net-zero future? I think the most important insight I would say is that it was right to go in the direction we went and so if anything we would like to have dared even more even earlier it's really hindsight but I think that's the insight I would say that there are so many things that is happening faster than you expect and you can be kind of mentally believing in that but actually taking the real step making the economic consequences just takes some more convincing before you do it and I think that's on the one hand sound because we have to be concerned about the economic viability of the companies we work for but if anything taking the steps, all steps a bit earlier and maybe even a bit more force would be the right answer And bearing all of this in mind what is the main learning you would share with the company at the beginning of their net-zero journey? First of all, do it, make the commitment because it does change your perspective in many situations it goes from if we need to do something to how we are going to do it and I think that's probably that's much better focus of resources and thinking and process is to go from if to how and as soon as you've done that mental shift I think you're on your way of creating a lot of value Actually I know I've heard you talk a few times about the value of backcasting versus forecasting perhaps you could talk a bit about that actually Yeah, I think it's a good concept to discuss these matters around and by forecasting what we mean by that is that you think about the future and you decide on your action based on the current realities and for most companies the current realities is that you have a business plan for this year you have a business plan for next year on that you have a lot of requirements on that and you can only act based on the policies that are out there today or the ones that you have a high probability of seeing that it will come and then you come to a certain trajectory Backcasting is to say we need to be in a certain place by a certain year for example that we need to be net zero by 2040 and then you think about what you need to do and in this context you end up in very different trajectories if you do the forecasting sitting stuck in current realities versus if you think about where you need to be and then backcast and I think that's what more and more companies and that would be the shift that I just talked about that if you go to say we are going to commit to net zero by 2040 or whatever year you feel is relevant then you force yourself into the backcasting and I'm very very convinced that companies that don't get into backcasting mode and backcasting activity planning are in a danger zone So on the concept of how you're working with others to deliver on this I'd be interested to hear a bit more about how you are engaging with your supply chain and across sectors more broadly to drive the net zero transition across the economy and achieve the systemic change that we are talking about here I think of course it's important to look at the full value chain and we work with our suppliers to build all the wind power that is needed to fuel or that needed for the transition you need a lot of steel and of course steel is as we know one of the more emitting industries there are and so on the one hand we have hybrid that is on the way to solving the problem in the long run but of course there are lots of other things that needs to be done as well until there is enough steel with the hybrid technology or similar so we need to work very actively with the supplies we do we put common goals for reduction so that's the upstream downstream and then of course our own operations is clear what we need to do and then downstream for example we sell a lot of gas and electricity but the gas to our customers and that's something we need to work very actively and we put together a plan because now when we have the commitment we need to solve that downstream issue as well so we work very actively with our customers and find solutions for them to converge from gas to other solutions when it comes to COP26 what is the most important outcome you are hoping for from COP26? I think is to to solidify the back casting perspective perspective generally that and I think that many countries and I think most stakeholders important they actually have an end goal I mean that all the large economies in the world actually have but I don't think necessarily that they started the mathematical exercise of doing if you want to fit there is no fit for 55 in China there is no fit for 55 in the US to the same extent that there is in Europe where you actually taken the commitment translating it to where do we need to be in the middle station where I think 2030 is an excellent because it's it's a sometime but it still doesn't require us to do all the things in the last years so I think that I actually quite impressed with Europe to get to the fit for 55 and we all know that there is a lot of things that still is not kind of ironed out exactly how it will look but we have come to the realization that we need to have a fit for 55 so if the world could agree that we all everyone needs a fit for 55 I think would be a great achievement