 And there's members in the audience is it it's like maybe Peggy just yeah, MJ O'Brien is the applicant. Yes Okay, right it's four o'clock. Oh, hi Yeah, we have a quorum and I believe that Jim will be joining us That Mary and Mary on the she's Maureen will not be joining us today. Yes. We should note that she's Not just she's almost in a battle. She's I think she's her house is About very close by you're right. She probably did receive in a butters notice. Yeah But she won't be voting today, so okay, yeah, I'll share my screen and to share the agenda Oh good, I didn't get if the agenda came It's in my email and I would be afraid to switch to email now to try to get it up and then come back to this I'm better off just Using what I Okay, so should I officially call the meeting to order? I think so, okay It's a four o'clock. So I will officially call the meeting of the local historic district commission to order we have a number of items on the agenda today the public Hearing there's three items on the public hearing portion of the agenda and the first is Margaret O'Brien at 25 Page Street, so I think we'll welcome Margaret and maybe just you know briefly go through and Introduce ourselves. So I'm Jennifer Taub Actually, I and I'm a neighbor, but I'm not in the butter. I did not get a notice and then we have Peggy We go down to you Okay I'm not sure what you want me to do. Oh, just introduce yourself for Margaret. So she knows who she's speaking with okay okay, Peggy Schwartz and Took a walk past the house this morning was a lovely walk and a sweet house See it and then we have Bruce called them Marcus. Hello. I'm an architect or at least I was retired these days but the commission has a requirement for a person with architectural background and experience and I fill that role and I was standing outside your house about an hour and a half ago and Somebody knocked on the window that I chose to ignore it And You're on mute Karen Okay, and you're on mute Now yes, yes. Hi Peggy. Hi. I know you. Yes And Greta hi Peggy. Hi Okay, so actually I'm not seeing you Margaret Yeah, I'll say to our applicant Peggy if on the bottom left of your screen You know it'll have a microphone and it's muted right now. So Yep Yes How do I get visual? Yeah, but it's okay. So right right next to that microphone is a camera looking thing and it says uh, I don't see it now Oh, oh, okay, and it'll say start video. I Don't I don't see a camera looking thing You know, yeah, I'm this is Nate. I'm a lawyer also playing with the town with Ben. I mean, it may be I realized There you are Do I exist yet? Yes, you do Becket is relieved Sorry, yes, that's what I was gonna say some computers don't have a camera I'm concerned a note of humor, right? I retired from the UMass English department All of my younger colleagues are doing this every day for every class they give and I can't imagine it But you can actually I can't see me. You can see me. Yes, we can see you That's all that matters. I'd rather not see me So um Peggy what we um, we're gonna, you know, call on you now that um, you know to present You know your application and then um, you know as members of the Commission We may have some questions for you and then what we do is we close the what we call public You know portion and then we You'll still be together, but we'll talk among ourselves, right? Okay. No, and we will So I won't I won't hear that conversation, but no you will hear it. Oh, okay Yeah, you'll still hear it, but we just so right now that Various so I better I better not make it as many smart aleck remarks. Oh, you can We're good with that. No, I mean this is open to the public. Yes Well, the whole thing is open to the public The reason we call it the public portion is in case any members of the public also have any questions Okay, that's that's that's that's really good. Yeah But um, so now we'll turn it over to you to present what you're proposing to do to your lovely house Ben burger has started pinch for out for a bigger view. Oh, yeah, that's okay That's okay. Well, I do you want me to yeah, yeah, go for it. Go for it Well, mainly what I have to say is in that kind of proposal I wrote, you know as part of the application and I don't want to just repeat all that But let me just say, you know, I mean It's very funny. I mean, I won't get too theoretical But authenticity is a very hard thing to pin down, right and the part of this house that we would like to renovate now is as Not authentic as it's possible to be the previous owners I think the the owner and is the husband and his sons built it themselves It is a mishmash and a hodgepodge. It wasn't built. Well Yeah, that's a hell but you can and It can see they they they added on this back room, which apparently was a dormitory for six of their boys and a deck Wow. Yeah And it's well, it's crude and it always was crude and from the moment we Well, I moved in and then we became we I knew that this was on the law as we'd say an island on the long finger It was gonna have to be done at some point It's now and I didn't get the name of the the man that I knocked on the window at That would be me Bruce. Yes. I was wearing a blue pullover You know, you probably saw even from a distance and you were very discreet That it's the deck is totally dilapidated and in fact, yeah, and if you look I didn't come around far enough to do that. Oh, it's it's it's you know, you can't really walk on it I was I was almost gonna go out and warn you but I knew you were gonna do that and You know, the windows are Heterogeneous and not all the same that I think they were cleaners and they used what they could find and so You know for us, it's very important to in fact restore this and hopefully Make it more Integral or integrated with the house. I Ran this by Ben this morning to I have to Insert something Personal because in the proposal I mentioned the importance of a handicap accessible shower and so on When we hatched this plan The idea was to have and of course Greta. Are you there at the meeting? Yeah, Greta's here Irene and everybody. Yes. Well, you know, I'm talking about when I talk about when all right, right, right? And you've seen him walk up and down Lincoln with the Parkinson's advancing well when was in ICU for five days last week and a last Yesterday he went into the Fisher home Okay, and I Almost I called Ben and I said I don't even know if I can do this But I decided I had to do it because even though he is in the Fisher home The Fisher home is such an amazing place that it could be possible for him still to be in this back room and for the hospice staff If you get my meaning to to come to it so that is the object of room, okay it the on the north end of it There is going to be a handicap accessible shower, you know a pretty most of the room a lot of the room taken up by the shower and You know, there'd be a closet room for a bed room for You know, maybe a television set or whatever and She 12 Ben Yeah, and and I heard what you said about the The designating of north and south and east on these drawings is for the birds. You're quite right. Okay. I Didn't do that. All right It's okay. I know Steve. Well And again, I should also add that We have no jurisdiction over the inside of the room. No, oh What I was gonna mention is the other thing this you do have jurisdiction over and One of the things that would there as I see it. There are three things that visually Impinge on on somebody walking down the street. Okay One would be the The roof line in the back would be different and in fact Ben, I don't know if you have it, but there's a house Yellow house on best and that and the front porch has a roof line No, that's Moran's that no White House the roof line would be very like that on the front porch there if you can see it In the back lovely. So that would be one change Screened in porch and Obviously, you know a full story rather than just a deck and I consider the screened in porch extremely important for when to be able to get out and get air and Be safe in all kinds of ways and This is the other thing which I can imagine. I mean, you know, it changes things I'm I'm saying that I would ideally like stairs Going down Toward on the am I right here now on the South end going toward the west toward the street I think the stairs that are shown are on the north side Well, I want them well, but the deck the screen porch deck the screen porch Is where you'd want the stairs right on the south side of that? Well, I or they maybe the west side of that This they would they would be on the west There would be in the south side that you think of the how the board the room is going north to south Okay Yeah, the screen porch is on the south side. It's on the south side But the but the stairs would be on the north Hampton side on the west side. Yes Going down Can you just is to have stairs that can have a ramp attached to them for a wheelchair to get out to the street? That's the and the ramp would run down the side of the house Yes, then you put your cursor there. Yes, they're a portable ramp It would not be a permanent ramp and the stairs would look like ordinary stairs off a porch Okay What yeah, it'd be right there be right there. Yeah, be right there Coming down right there. It wouldn't extend any further to come down the stairs There'd be a ramp to that walkway so you could get out It seems very intelligent. This is what people should be doing. I Mean, well, that's it and it's it's minimal. I mean, I'm the clavards Would be the same clavards the shingles that the you know commensurate with what's already there The footprint would be no bigger than it is now I Have included houses from Beston Incidentally, I'm I'm devoted to these two streets just devoted to them and The houses I love on best and new newer people coming in and they've made changes That are more dramatic than the one I'm suggesting, but I think they only enhance the neighborhood Hmm we would agree So as for builders, this is this is where things get a bit Difficult and they go back to the to the Fisher home I Am Still there's there's still two things that are undecided that are up in the air Still trying to decide on a builder. I don't want to name names if you need names. I can give you But okay, it has to do with bids and whatever but The other thing and this I talked to Ben about this about coming to the meeting now I am especially with Winds condition and the you know, you know having my temperature taken every morning that I go into the Fisher house now I'm very wary that I didn't intend that rhyme of having Bunch of building done and a lot of people around right at the moment and so this well This might be optimistic, but this could be delayed if if I got permission until the spring but I would and then I would you know like to be able to To not have to go through, you know to be able to just do it when it then when the when the time is right I think you have two years. Is that right name? Pardon Yeah, or a year, right? Is it a year? Oh, is it a year? Yeah, you know, it's at least at least a year Yes year that is that gives us a lot of freedom if that happens but What I also wanted to say and I know this isn't your Ambit, okay, but one of the things that you will all have noticed about dear Page Street is the way it gets pretty Congested down at the end here, right and whenever building goes on in this cul-de-sac There's always mayhem and bad feeling and what have you and as you will have seen Mr. Architect, I am not a gardener and so I have said We're gonna we're gonna landscape this after the building and so the builders can drive onto that side yard backyard Because peers will have to be put in because the the the the the current deck is just so You know, it was so badly put together. So so that's it And I think there's one omission But it's not really no mission because we haven't decided on it But I do realize that if we wanted air conditioning in this room, that would be another thing I'd have to apply for but I'd apply for it separately and Other than that you asked me questions, you know, I does that cover most of yeah, that's I don't know. Yes. I I don't I Don't have any questions. I don't think I think I understand I Understand the drawings I understand what you're doing. I understand that basically that shed The shed is the term for the roof there the slope of the roof it's a single I like the term generally for what it what it is so the the the roof plane and the slope of the roof is being turned 90 degrees so And it's a bit of a butterfly Abel in the middle and to flanking lower pitched Roots that go over porches on either side. It seems to me to be I Mean well, I my opinion doesn't matter for the moment What matters is that I don't have any further questions But others might have because the drawings it wasn't as easy as What they're what they wasn't that would have helped was a three dimensional drawing or two Yeah, I think the most for me the most helpful. Well, I mean, I'm I this is just Greek to me But for me the east elevation has he got the east elevation, right? Is it east? I don't think Yeah, the east elevation and the new floor plan Yeah, East elevation east elevation. Yeah, I think the east elevation That's the elevation looking from the back He does that I just wanted to say there's no gable window. There's just this pointed roof and Then the the gable is up above. So, you know, it's already in it exists Hmm, the stuff in back already exists So so it's only that little a-shaped Roof and the and the porch Roof is not that different from what exists now because he had to integrate it somehow with the new bit so the the the roof plane on the right-hand side of that drawing is The existing porch roof Which melds into a cross a cross gable a gable that goes in the opposite in the 90s And so so it's even you know, you'd really have to crook the old neck to see that Kind of a shape. Yeah But but the deck as it exists now is only halfway up and this would be this would be a You know full height the screen and porch Would go across the width of the house No, no No, it would just go Let's see. Maybe there's one may go to a floor plan It just goes a little way up. It goes on. I think it's almost Where the where the deck is now, right? Which is just so it doesn't go toward to the front of the house. No, no, that's what I'm saying. This is Really minimal, right? Well, even if it did right, huh? No, even if it did that would be fine, but um, yes We don't have to We don't have to be convinced about the smallness of the Of the change we need to be convinced that it's appropriate, right Yeah, that's You have a clear property map Pardon, yeah I think you know, some of it is you know, my questions would be what are some of the there? It is great, you know some of the details on the windows. Are they similar in the porch? In some instances some of this won't be really visible from the street To answer that question that the windows that are there now are An unholy heterogeneous mess. I think they just use what they could find are all Different windows and the windows We would use would be like the windows in the main part of the house the old part of the house If that makes sense Not not not replacing the kind of the windows that are there because they they are They'd be like that. Yeah But not the way that when the windows are now they're Riot, you know, they're every kind of window you can imagine. I really mean it. It's hilarious No, I should have taken a picture of it and may I just say this isn't your ambit either But one of the joys of trying to arrange any kind of renovation on this house Is that we have the distinction of being the epicenter? the old sewer system in this Area and practically I think maybe three sides of the house are Enclosed by the old sewer system, so you're right. Yeah. Yeah You're right. I know I'm right and then and the old Old sewer is I believe underneath this room But because it's always been underneath this room We're okay with it, but we couldn't go out to the side or either side. We are just we are sewer sewage central So Well, this is probably a matter for the building inspector, so I'll yeah, I have a I have a technical curiosity But I'll let it ride Building inspector No, it's Rob. Mara is the Is the head of inspection services and and he's got a number of people and they're good and they'll They'll make sure that the foundation and the sewer have an agreeable marriage Well, it's very important because it could wreck the lives of everybody around us. Yeah, you know, seriously Because there are there are a number of ways in which very small sewer you might want to look into diamond peers Diamond I'll talk to Steve is Steve Steve Schreiber Continuing to work for you No, this was a discreet piece of work. I haven't asked him to do anymore. This seemed Sufficient if you if you if you have any problem with figuring out what the foundation is Have your contractor or whomever give me a call and we can talk about it I don't need to take people's time here, but I've solved these problems before but this is Kind of you in relation to the sewage system and everything The the the the issue is the marriage of an acceptable Foundation system with an existing sewer that's right below it. Well, what what? You're good, but what we're hoping but it's this is not something we need to talk about here It's irrelevant to our conversation on the can well No, but it's something that keeps me awake at night because I worry I want to I'd rather that the less done About with the founder. I think the foundation is pretty much okay I don't I don't think we should go near that sewer, but if Thank you for that. I haven't thought it out and I haven't yeah Thank you, Bruce. Um, so are there uh, any other Questions from the commissioners? Oh No, and This is so funny Bruce here too Do you want me oh, we have to move to close the hearing if we don't have any yeah But no was there somebody else coming on I couldn't tell because I got another name that popped up at the bottom I didn't know if that was an architect Jim's here, too. He's been here for a little bit. Yeah Jim Lumley But I was cut off I didn't do hear me Oh, actually, I think Jim Jim's Jim has his mute on yeah, Jim is muted Yes, I was saying something but but I don't want to interrupt no no, okay, I can't Peggy Peggy Peggy's here. Hi Peggy. Oh, okay. There are two Peggy's here. This is Peggy Schwartz. Who's our Peggy Schwartz? Okay, there you go. It's been a while, right? But I just want to say I'm very moved by your planning and the thoughtfulness and the challenges and I guess given everything that's going on right now the emotions are closer to the surface and They're very close. Yes When they never get to be in this room, we don't know But you know and then it's the pandemic that makes it so Ify, but that Peggy, thank you for that. You hit that hits it Yeah, well, that's what this is your home Right. We're with oh This is our home and we're blessed with it and blessed with you know, I mean the neighborhood I don't know what you all feel but I feel The neighborhood has become even more beautiful by the year I walked this morning from my home to your Taking those walks around the center of town and I love those little streets. We have good friends on the next street over We have another reason to Yeah, I'm best in yeah, Kathy Portuguese. You might I know almost a but her but I think maybe one Yeah, of course. Anyway, um, this is just a neighborhood that I've always always admired and just Kind of the quintessential New England neighborhood. You just want to move into it, you know And could I say something else to you all in relation to the visuals? Okay? Um, even though I'm sure you don't go to this place it mentally but because of The the meadow at the back Gabor's meadow, do you know on best in street? You all know what I'm referring to the wetland, right? In fact the back of our house is Seen a lot Oh It is people you see it from best in you see it totally a whole width of it from best in and so That's been a consideration for me because We love that meadow so much and I love walking over to best in and looking at the back of the house And you see the entire thing. So again, it's sort of like the sewage system being Around the whole house you can practically see every you can see three sides of our house Yeah, and it's beautiful like we when you say that it's kind of a hodgepodge. I would never notice that I always admire your house when I walk by it Oh god, thank you To clarify are any windows changing in the other parts of the house on this project? No, no Now wait a second when I say that And you have an image you could go to maybe hmm. I don't think so. I mean there might be In the kitchen in the kitchen window, but that's down. That's a separate thing because that window is One of those ones that you it's on you reel it in and out and it doesn't work anymore But you're but on this picture right here like the windows like right next to almost like behind the tree or Ben's Those are those are those are permanent though. Those are all part of the Extant house and not part of what's being changed. Yep. All right Except there's what I'm saying is not in this Period but there's a little there's the little window Again, this is part of the previous owners there's there are some windows that just don't fit into the house at all and And you know, there might be an effort down the line to change them mainly because they're Crappy windows that don't work anymore. You know the kind I mean that you Reel them in and out and they don't go Yeah, and they're horrible, but that's not to the work we're doing now There's another question the roof overhang and all that detail the trim detail and Stacia that will all be the same Pardon the detail along the roof line Will be the same like the overhang. Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yes, that's that's my assumption. I hope Stephen Shriver so that may be is it Bruce Bruce called him. Yes, I have a whimpering dog. So I muted myself But yes, I'm basically Nate taking notes for conditional approval here I'd assumed it was the same With the rest but yeah, that was the In the drawings, but that's a very that's an excellent point Those drawings don't get to that level of detail they're there and and so the I think that if we move as I expect we would to Prove a certificate for appropriateness. I would propose the conditional Say something like roof overhangs fascia and rake edge details new windows to match and anything else We want to add to that list to match those existing in the original portion of the house All to the better Okay, and that's the intention Um, are there any other questions I Don't have any no, okay, then can I ask for a motion to? Do I stay for this or do I go you stay you stay I actually want to ask you since we have other Items on the public hearing. Are we closing it as such? This one you usually close it on this just this project on this one. Okay. Yeah The way the agenda was laid out So if I could any motion to close the public portion of the hearing on 25 page Street application so moved Okay, all in favor second I approve Maybe we don't have to do a Identifier sales for this. Do we who are who is the second there? They was not one I'll second it. Yeah, I was asking for a motion. It sounded like I was making it so I apologize Um Nate for this We don't have to do a voice vote. Do we? Maybe we just go through it quickly Okay, uh, so let's start with because we're on zoom. So that's why we each need to identify ourselves in the boat. Uh, Karen I approve Peggy Bruce yep Greta I approve. It seems to have frozen Okay, Jim I approve and Jennifer I approve. Okay so, um Oh, so, uh bruce you had Well, if there's no further discussion Um, I think it's been I would suggest that we make sure that everybody understands what's uh being proposed here because the drawing sets are um The drawing sets absent a three-dimensional drawing right and we we know from previous projects and particularly the amazon media project that we Um as a commission, uh really work better with three-dimensional drawings than we do with Elevations and sections and plans and so forth. This is nowhere near as complicated as the amazon media But still there is no three-dimensional drawing involved. We just I just thought make sure that everybody Feels they have a clear understanding of what's being proposed because if not we could take a moment to make sure that Everybody's comfortable. I actually have a question If I could with this picture up So we're talking about Just that back part of the house. Yes. Okay. Yeah, if we went back to the south elevation um, and the plan said I think that's Um, if we do the south and the east that's probably the most helpful. So right right where you see the addition part, right? Only the back here You know where it's showing is what's changing, right? May I may I say something and to what brood the point bruce just made that um, you know, I these these drawings are pretty retro and um The two builders that I have gone to Both just immediately talk about one of the things they'll have to do is 3d renderings, okay And then the east elevation band if you just went to that just so we could um Right so then across the back Um, there's changes. So that's just Just so that you know the commission knows that's where the work is being is on the south and the east the south and the east Okay. Yes. Yes. That's great. It sounds in the east So if we're ready, I will do what I usually do. That's uh, move to uh, approve granting of a certificate of purpose for the addition to the house at 25 page street in amos based on uh the uh drawings submitted Compiled by architect steven schreiber with findings that the proposed work meets the review criteria expressed in sections 8.1 and 8.2 of the amos local historic district bylaw and uh That the proposal is compatible with the overall appearance of the neighborhood and will not have a negative impact on the uh uh prospect lincoln sunset local historical district um with the condition that um the new that roof overhangs fascia and rate edge detail and new windows Match those existing in the original portion of the house Um, will this be in will that what you've just said be in written form? Yeah So that I can show it to any builder or anybody? Yep. Yeah, you'll have that in writing I want that to be very explicit. Yeah. Well, it will be when I'm finished Um I think I've already said that the the work is executed according to the documentation. There's no dates I don't think there's a date on there. Is there a date? I don't know No I didn't see any right. I think you you said you know to the drawings. Yes, I did so i'm going to skip that bit um And I think so that I think I am finished I probably have a date somewhere, but I'd have to go It's not on the drawing. So it doesn't matter. I mean it it would need to be on the documents No, it's not on the drawing Okay, so we're looking for I think I think we've identified them by the authorship Yes So that's it. Is there a second for a second? I second Okay, thank you. Karen seconds um, so all in favor again, we have to Do a voice vote. So we'll start with bruce um, I approve Karen I approve um Peggy approve Greta I approve And jim I approve and jennifer I approve So um, great. So you uh, again, I know uh, Peggy, you're not starting right away, but uh, because technically once we approve You don't you don't have to wait to have the certificate physically in hand But um, you will be notified, you know when one is available. It will be soon for you to pick up a copy and um You know, we wish you all the best Yes, may I may I just say I know you all and I know a lot of you all from way back and I know you operated with the utmost of integrity here, but I'm given the day that's in it as we'd say in our and you lifted a huge weight off me and I really I'm very grateful, but I'm glad I'm I I I wanted this to enhance the neighborhood. It will Yeah, there we go. It's a great neighborhood. Yes, and we know that it will and um I guess to sort of off the record if there's anything any of us who live right around you can can do we're here I totally No, that's the feeling I I think what the historic just if I can insert this what the Historical district could never convey I mean even in this little this crisis in our little lives Oh my lord, the tightness of this neighborhood is extraordinary You know, it really is it's not just about architecture There's a Huge communal sense. Don't you think? Yes. Yes Huh, so Okay, over and out now do I push go away or something? What do I do now? I Read button that's just a leave meeting. Yep in the bottom Can I just say that I would not have been part of this meeting if a certain man that I'm looking at right now ben hadn't given me free tutoring Yeah, I've become a become a zoom instructor Hey, goodbye Bye. Bye. Bye Bye. Thank you Well, okay, it's amazing that open government continues in this It really is. Yeah Okay. Thank you. So all right. Thank you all. Thank you very much Okay, so our next um So again, uh, Nate and ben since Do We don't really need to have a discussion on the fee since we've already discussed that But do we ask if there's any members of the public who have any comment on this proposal? Yeah, I think you can and um, I I'm sharing the screen. I I think you may be able to see it I can read it for you know what I was at adopt the legal fee Oh, we're gonna do it through this Right. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. So I you know, I'll just read what you know Just so could people who are I'm assuming they can see it but it um, yes What we're discussing it says the commission and establishes an application fee paid by an applicant to help defray the cost To the town of administering the application and publishing the hearing notice and the daily hamster gazette The fee of $50 shall be collected at time of application And is required for an application to be considered complete and reviewed by the commission So that's That's the language Good I will say that one um, a previous applicant had um emailed staff and thought that The $50 application fee could be a cost to barrier to applying to the commission I have I have his email up right now Okay, if you want to read it and I think I think I summarize it but you could see if I Yeah It was a little bit more nuanced. I was just saying uh, while I understand the committee would like to only spend time on applications That will actually be acted upon if there is going to be a fee There should be a much more detailed list slash examples of what requires an application Or some triage process before the fee is collected And in current documents that were forwarded to me describing the application They were quite vague about what actually requires approval I recognize there's a huge variety of applications But some typical and not obvious like many splits, for example, would be useful just my two cents So you're just saying if essentially like if there is a legal fee enacted um It seems like you know more exclusions which we are doing but then also just making the Process a bit more straightforward about what needs to be The the issue with you know, if you're applying You know to get a new roof for You're you're you're applying for a building permit And it's not till that point that you're told that you need to go before the local historic district commission I think the mini splits is one of those where people Have been installing them and just it doesn't even occur to them because you don't need a building I think do you need a building permit for a mini split? An electrical permit, but the state allows an electrical permit Honestly to be applied for and then acted on by the contractor There's a A provision that they don't even have they can do the work without the permit in hand So they often apply to the town and then go ahead and do the work Um, right. They don't even think that they need to come before us, right? Yes, it's uh, it's an interesting thing that uh because my uh daughter and son-in-law had A electrician who acted exactly as you described me But there's no provision for when the electrician then goes and dies before the work is finished Right, which is what happened and said now we've got a muddle So it's it's not a it's not a it's not a good idea. I don't think but anyway, that's the way it is apparently Yeah, man, we'll say on the second floor, you know, we have Jen Mullin as the permanent administrator. So we What I can see is they email You know, even the electrical inspector Tina she'll send emails to ben and I and we have quite a few in the last You know week about um possible projects where they're doing You know, someone submits an electrical permit and it's for a project or property in the local historic district Yeah, and we look at it. So I agree, um, with you Jennifer I think there's too many variables to say to have a list of what triggers review because we could get it wrong And things change. I actually think that Between the by-law the rules and regulations which we send to an applicant And we we require a meeting with staff that usually clarifies You know, whether or not it's part of the review of a local historic district So at that time they would be told there's a fee or that they have to submit it. So I This is not a critique of the fee. This is a critique of the by-law right and So it doesn't apply to our current situation, right um So I yeah You know, so I think in the email there's a little it what I'm hearing is they'd like to know before they apply Right, whether there's a fee, but You know, they there may be work they want to do that doesn't require even applying and then the fee won't apply right, but um Yeah, I mean we discussed it, but I you know as we I mentioned last meeting Two meetings ago when we were talking about this We had like a perfect example of Someone who three times was on the agenda and never came And the town had incurred the expenses of notifying the abutters and placing the ad and So this I think I think we stand strong on this. I don't think we need to worry about it. Right Okay, so, um Can we vote take a vote on this need in bed? Or do we do we have to have a motion to close the public portion? All right, I think you know, I looking at the legal ad this was this was one Um one discussion point and then the exclusions were another so I think you know, um If we there could be a vote, you know to um To recommend approval or you know the establishment of a fee. I think you know it could just happen that way Okay, so, um with any what could we have a someone like to make a motion? Uh, I moved to accept the uh the proposal to Add an application fee to our rules and regulations in in uh as as As proposed Is there a second I second Uh grida, okay, and then we'll take a vote for all in favor and I'll start with grida. Yes. I approve Uh bruce. I approve um Peggy approve caron I approve and jim. I approve and jennifer. I approve Okay, so we have great added and the fee, okay And then we move on to Uh the rules and regulations And do you want to take that need or been Looks like there's a hand raised. It's um, I'll it's hilda hilda. You can unmute yourself I just wanted to say that If somebody objects to paying the fee and then it turns out that they don't need to apply or whatever this You can always refund the money take the money and refund it if you don't need it Right like we did the zba now and again Um, yeah, that's true. That's true. Right. We would right the town would make refunds. That's a good point right and you wouldn't You usually don't you wouldn't until the town you apply for building permit And if you don't the town wouldn't even refer you to make the application to the lhdc Right, I mean well sometimes what happens is an applicant may assume they need it They submit an application and staff enters it and receives the check. Okay And then, you know May check after the facts, but the town would issue a refund, right? So we wouldn't keep a Check that Right because the town wouldn't be incurring incurring the expenses. Right. Okay. Okay. Thank you hilda um Okay, so Do you did you want to do provide the overview Nate? Sure, so, you know that as the commission discussed there's um A number of exclusions today. I'm trying to share the screen if everyone can see them And therefore certain elements that have been reviewed and we found that it's You know somewhat perfunctory to look at these and it's you know, there's such a variety and there's minor to the appearance that they would could be exclusion so In order, you know, they're excluding the a flu cap So the installation replacement of a flu flu cap on an existing chimney or vent stack Electrical box the installation or replacement of additional meters Solar disconnect box mini split electrical box or similar electrical utility box If it is immediately adjacent to existing utility mechanical and electrical equipment boxes on the structure So that's you know, we've discussed that The exterior condenser compressor The installation of an exterior compressor or condenser if all of the following apply There are two or fewer per structure The highest point is less than five feet off of the ground It remains screened from view from with vegetation And it is not within 10 feet of an entry Exhaust fan installation or replacement Of a single exhaust vent for a dryer bathroom or kitchen attached to to no greater than a six inch diameter duct A plumbing vent through the roof installation or replacement of a plumbing vent through roof And the the final exclusion would be a vent hood Installation or a placement of standard direct vent hood For an interior unit such as combustion heater or boiler Can I ask a question? I'm under the 3.2.1 the condenser compressor Where it says the third bullet if it remains screened from view with vegetation Could it be a vegetation or fencing? or Well, we thought when we discussed this last time We thought that they The fencing that we we wouldn't have control over the fencing right so they would have to come to us with the fencing design That's right because they could decide that an appropriate fence was a concrete masonry that they just happened to have in the backyard So we were clear that that fencing was not that they would have to come to us. Okay Yeah, I have asked the commission when that under the same exclusion when it says the highest point is less than five feet off the ground That it's understood that that's the highest point of the condenser compressor. So that's But I mean that's that's I'm that's the way that's why I think it's intended I just want to make sure that everyone understands it that way Yes, I think so because the the the the intro is an exterior compressor a condenser You might want to put compressor condenser unit Yeah after that and then the installation of an exterior compressor or condenser I think delete the or because now you've changed it to two separate potentially separate things which so Yes, I think something like that is what I mean because they're they're an integral thing basically an air conditioning Device I just have a quick question about the the same one so What about like the all of the hosing involved with um mini splits like Is that a separate from the condenser compressor? And would like if someone just thinking if someone like needs to install a mini split We're excluding the condenser and compressor, but not the Hosing and I know that often like runs up and down the house well Yes, that's true. We didn't talk about that. Did we maybe I'm uh, but It's it can be with the kind of Now, what do we say there? It's there are two or fewer for structure Hmm Yep, it could be that the the the covered line sets Would run quite a distance one of the features of this technology Which was not the case in the 1980s, but definitely is the case now Is that you can run these lines to 150 feet or more They used to be Very constrained and the efficiency of the unit would uh would would tank if you ran the line longer than 30 feet but these Latest technologies that we've had the past 10 15 years You can run them quite a long distance So we should recognize that There could be quite a length and maybe maybe Maybe we could consider adding a fifth Bullet there which said that the aggregate length of encapsulated line sets is No, not greater than 30 feet 40 feet 50 feet Or do I mean would we would we have something to say that the the line set is You know follows You know Like features of the house so it follows gutters or corners. I mean, you know For instance in my neighborhood someone put a condenser, you know right out front and then they ran The line set, you know next to a window, you know on two sides of it And went then right over the window around a corner and then tucked it in, you know Upstairs and so, you know, they painted it the same color as the siding but you see that there's this line set Yeah, they ran vertically as opposed to say keeping it low and then running just one vertical piece. So I don't It's a good point that I I think um I was assuming that right that we'd have a thoughtful installation But maybe we can't assume that that someone could put it If they meet these conditions and you know, is that is the piping excluded? I think uh, it that would be a Good idea been except there been a nate except that Uh, the building inspector would probably not want to be put in the position of making an aesthetic judgment My guess is so I think it would be safer to do what we've done with all of the other Conditions, which are basically numerical. There's two or fewer. There's five feet off the ground. There's 10 feet from the entry I would say that the aggregate length of Exposed line set Is not is is is not greater than 20 feet And then and then we would have to review anything with more Yeah, in other words, it becomes more complicated if there's more And these are the intent of this is to get people going quickly And so that will encourage them to be very efficient in the way in which they place these things and have less than 20 feet of line set I don't know that 20 feet's the right number But since we have two of them It might be but I I could say 20 feet You know, uh, maximum length of length of Piping could be 20 feet or less per condenser You know per unit or something, right? So Because you could have two sets that are not running the same Yeah, you know a separate side so you'd have you could specify the 20 feet per unit I think this this particular condition is one that will be hard for us to know that we've gotten right But I think ben's point is excellent and we really did I think overlook Yeah, sorry. So I think we should put in a number But and then see how it flies for the first year and be prepared to review and revise based on A year of experience or something like that Yeah, I just realized When I was going over the exclusions this morning, but I wish I had brought it to everyone's attention like last month I think this is timely Nate, why don't you say encapsulated line sets So, yeah, yeah, okay, I mean I mean I was trying to think I was trying to Clarify that the piping shall be encapsulated, you know not to miss it, right? But you think encapsulated line set would be yes because it always is encapsulated They just don't they just don't put it. They don't install them without this vinyl encapsulation. It's partly because it So encapsulated line sets so that basically shall be no longer than 20 feet in aggregate or The aggregate of encapsulated line sets shall be no longer than 20 feet Okay, Peggy. Did you want to add something? Yeah, Peggy Well, I just Yes, thank you. It's it's such a specialized conversation that not all of us understand even all of the Implications of I'm wondering if it's a conversation that might be more efficiently held between the experts on this and then brought back to us when when When there's some consensus among them You see what I'm saying in terms of tonight's meeting. I I think I don't think so I think that this is a Straightforward thing and the only the only thing is in in under discussion is the length of the the amount of exposed Piping if you want to put it that way. I'm calling them line sets because that's the technical term the amount of exposed Line set and and we just have to make a guess that what we think is reasonable. I would say I would I would delete that per unit but because But we could keep but there are big houses. So I suppose that's We should keep it that way and then we just should see what happens And Yeah, I want to say per unit Bruce because I mean if we say 20 feet, that's only 10 feet per What if they're putting two units in different locations on the structure? Right, you're right and 20 feet will get somebody from the first floor to the third floor Yeah, I mean I yeah peg I think you know we could the commission can always amend the rules and regulations so if we find you know next year at some point that you know the average line set is 40 feet and You know we could change this but I think yeah, I agree with Bruce that the 20 feet is going to You know it's going to kind of require that the installer think Better about how to run the line set. So, you know, you can't just be Sloppy about it. You're gonna have to be pretty direct and try to make it minimal and that's that's the point It's hard to actually get that in writing Okay, you know because you can run it inside right so the one that we saw on Lincoln out. Oh, that's a good point I did say that the Exposed it exposed encapsulated Because you're right. You can run it inside Right Extra I say just exterior Um, I think it's understood right because we have the historic district. We don't have jurisdiction over anything that's Exposed inside it's only if it's exposed right in a in a Oh, you haven't got exposed in there yet. Oh, let me say I said exterior. Well, it's exposed Exposed encapsulated. How do you kind of like an oxymoron a little bit? Exposed encapsulated line On exterior, I'll just say on exterior. Yes. Yes So your structure Shall be no longer shall be no longer There we are Okay, so encapsulated lines said on exterior structure shall be no longer than 20 feet in aggregate per unit. Okay, like No longer than 20 feet. Okay. Yeah Yeah, I think that gets us as as as well as we can do in in And I don't think any further conversation is going to improve this I'm I think we we should Move so I think we can move to a vote. There's no other questions or comments There is a hilda has another her hand raised hilda you can I unmuted you or Thinking of my old house here the one thing you don't mention That I got here is a 25 gallon propane tank and do you want to include things like that or exclude them or what? Well, yeah, so that's not The commission hasn't discussed those so those we couldn't just take those that we could take them under Recommendation today, but we couldn't add them to the changes now We need to present the changes the commission at a public meeting before approving them. So So what what it would mean is if people wants a propane tank then they Would have to apply Right want to in the front where? It can be seen from the street. Yeah Right, right But what you're saying Nate is we can't just add it to the list because we haven't put it out there for public notice Right. So if we if we think we want to have that be another exclusion We take it under advisement today and then we could talk about it at a future meeting Right Well, I don't know if you're regulating always other things you may want to regulate that that's all i'm saying Either to put it on or off. Yeah Is that is that uh, is it I'm not sure how that would be triggered though because Is it is it not possible for someone to put in a propane tank without Getting a building permit I mean for example, let's say they've got a propane tank and they get and they change from osterman to george And mr. George comes along and and he puts his propane tank In a slightly different location Because it's it's convenient for him Um, is there any is there any Is there any To move it there really is no there really is no trigger for local historic district, right? So that's that's i'm thinking if it's not there's not a lot of point of putting in something here if if it's uh, If it happens outside our our jurisdiction Well, not even jurisdiction we might be able to assert it but but it's the mechanism that we have for Picking all of this up and for being alerted and all of this stuff is through the building commissioner and my sense is that that this would be We we we would have to figure out some other way of being aware of initiatives to To put in building a propane tank right? I think if this you know if it was part of a larger project the commission could review it Yeah, or a gas Like they probably need a gas permit mine had to be moved When when I changed purveyors because it was too close to the the Either the air conditioner or the Oil tank i'm not sure but they had to move it. So it it shows I think yeah, I don't I don't know if we can I think we could you know think about it for another meeting for a discussion. Yeah, put it on your list Thank you, we will Okay, thank you Okay, so if um, there's no further questions or items for discussion I guess we could move to adopt these exclusions that have been um already had public notification provided for Is there um a motion? I would say so Oh Do we we don't have to close the public hearing first do we all? It already has been. Oh, we did already. Okay. Well, uh, so moved According to the text submitted. Yeah, uh second I second Okay, karin seconds and then we'll do a voiced vote for all in favor starting with bruce proof Um karin Approve. Thank you peggy approved Guida approved And jim I approve and i'm jennifer and I approve Okay, thank you So with that we'll uh the the hearing portion of the meeting is concluded and then we will move to the public meeting and will um Amherst media present Well, there's a number of attendees. I'll promote them all to um the panelists. So there's their engineer There's the architect Is jim Let's go the exec director and um, sorry my screen is getting cluttered here Sorry, and then uh ed Who's on the board? Oh, ed who? He's on the board. Oh, okay. Yep, and so I was trying to share my screen Um, let me just stop Okay. Hi bucky See you jennifer. How are you? Good. Thank you. Hi Hi, john krifka right All right, I can um I can make uh as panelists john or bucky You can take over the screen share if you'd like or if you want me to do it. Um, and you can direct me It's however you feel comfortable Well, I've got a number of things on my desktop. I can go to that and Open them up. I guess one at a time and use my cursor to illustrate what i'm talking about I think the uh, I don't know if the uh The board got copies of bucky and my letter that we said we did So uh, they both enumerate what we feel are the changes That the planning board saw when it went for site review From the plans that you saw when you did your uh appropriateness certificate um And in my particular listing there are 17 items, but I particularly listed uh Uh sticks That you might be particularly concerned about a number of the others have already been shown On the drawing on our architectural elevation drawing that bucky submitted for site plan review You know, um, it's it's a small scale But one of the things you you wanted joints relocated you wanted louvers relocated You wanted the ends of certain gables Uh both ends the the uh sloped end and the Other end changed I I at the small scale it shows it on on bucky's submittal drawing Which included our architectural drawing on the large scale, which was a drawing we submitted that had particular building sections We show a couple of the changes now And x'd out what were the old overhangs so we could take a look at that too And maybe the first place to start is uh going down this list And I could open up whichever drawing you want me to either the One that was presented for the site plan review or the one that was presented earlier for you Um I I bucky I think bucky's got some some items as well some overlap with the architectural items Yeah, I think the um just for the commission's background, you know the You know the um certificate of appropriateness I had a few conditions and one was to come back out of public meeting to review changes and so Now amorous media They've gone through site plan review permitting with the finding board and they have more refined drawings both civil drawings for the The site and then architectural drawings and so there's been a number of changes and it's the commission's Role right now to determine if these changes are You know in accordance with the drawings and are de minimis really so they're minimal or if some are You know say substantial enough that they may need to have a new application to the commission and so You know, I think that's uh what uh john and bucky are here to present just to go over everything John just let you know the uh, I did email everything to the commission I mean there was a lot but hopefully we can view it today and we could okay Go through everything and yeah, uh, feel free to you can take over the screen share Or I could do it too because we could walk through each one of these Um, you know, make sure the commission can understand them all the one thing I want to make sure is that I have bucky's My daughter is calling from Peru Never fails I have to try I'm gonna put it on the airplane mode. I'll talk to her later Okay, um Let me try and open a bucky if I can't do it um Can you open the drawing that was included in the site plan review of our architecture? I think I have to I'll start finding that on my My I think I have it on my desktop here. I know how the one presented to the Sure, I have it on Um, oh, where is it actually this uh, huh, I had it pulled up too now. I can't I don't seem to Is this it bucky? This is it, isn't it? That's it Yeah, those are my plans. Yes Where would you want to go John? All the way to the end down to uh All the way to the end is my architectural drawing. Okay. Sorry. Sorry everyone for all the page scrolling and this is uh Okay Let me zoom in a little bit. I can move it and curse around if people need any um direction but that uh This is bruce the the the letter that john started with the first item on that was a It was a site related thing stone curving and Oh, maybe we can point it out here It's on the uh the west side against the building Right now there's a dash line that goes down Yeah, and there had been a sidewalk that went down at one point all the way to the front That's been eliminated. Okay. And what there is is that there's a low planning bed Against the side of the building there And there is a granite uh Edge is that what the that? Like that that item number one refers to is that that pathway has become a granite uh edge Right a flower bed edge and if we look is it if we looked on that would it on the elevation would we It's not it's not visible here, but it's so I mean it's quite low It's it sits up. Oh, it's sort of a movie my cursor Yeah, if you go to the north elevation If you go to the north elevation and move it over to the left of the screen more Oh, you know, I'm sorry. Yeah down there. It's gonna be probably no higher than a foot. I believe You know as a a curb edge And in the uh If you raise that up Nate a little bit so we see the west elevation Yeah It's gonna fall below it. There's a line there. It's gonna be full Fall below Right up to the edge of the bottom of these Uh divided light Windows here, which are in the conference room. Okay Yeah Okay, I understand that and uh have no problem and Okay Item two Which is probably more significant because when we first presented There wasn't much discussion if any at all about the the sign and now In the interim We had shown just a simple placard that were on that was on two posts You know three by three or four by four posts. It was the same dimension. It was three by five I believe or four feet by five feet and Actually four by six was what it was and We've changed it in the interim to to mimic the gaussian stone wall That's um and this would be If you go back to our site plan I hear you're on the right It's not right uh right here right there No, oh, I see near the wall. Yes near the wall and the signage is on the south side only And if you go back to the up to the sign Nate Can we see that everyone's gonna see that? Yeah, I can there is a Illuminaire That's shielded That in section here it is Is this Booking on my cursor Bucky put your hand right. Yeah put the hand right up where the lamp is It's nice. That's driving. It's right. It's right here, right? Right and that and that will eliminate the signage There's a recess in the in the sign itself. It's recessed but before Yeah, you know You can see in sex This is the backside facing north This is a crooked version of what should have been a square a second through the sign Section Michelle and You know, essentially what we like this to be a a light slate here To contrast with the goshin stone a little bit and these would be pin letters that You know designate Amherst media and then the middle panel is their logo, which is a series of I guess sound an indication of a sound generation by A electronic device And wait, where is this going exactly? So if we it was there was a monument sign in the original Plant on the north right here north of the driveway. Oh, so it's going to be north of the driveway. Okay Yeah, and the difference is when it came before it was like maybe a wooden post on right, okay on They wouldn't sign on posts and now it's going to be a You know a masonry Monument sign. Okay. Thank you. I don't personally have any problem with that. Yep It's hard to say how big it is. I I can't read the side It says it's six feet wide by By five feet. Thank you And the lettering how big The lettering is the scale here. So in reality These are probably four inch letters Uh, this center You know, and then and then it gets smaller With the street address. Okay Just to be clear the letters aren't what six feet by five feet. No, no, no this nine is six feet this way Yeah, five feet high. Okay. Thank you. Can can I ask a question? Of course Karen I'm still not sure Where it is. So if you're on the south side on the street main street side Is it right in the front? No, can you see can you see the site plan now, Karen? Yeah, so up here's main street right here Yeah, the cursor is the sign is back up here It's at the driveway at the driveway. Okay. Okay, great Nick, can I see if just for a second to see if I have this on my uh desktop because it might be easier if I move the Curts around Yeah, that's fine. How would I do that? If you just um I think you I don't know if you can if you have a a share somewhere if you hover your cursor bend, you know where it would be Um, for him for john, I see you are viewing that the faniom always screened. Do I uh, yeah, it should be on the bottom Like bar there's a green arrow Yeah, where's the share screen john you you you you take over the sharing Yeah, you can take them over. I can sit back Okay Have some coffee and a donut Yeah Cider donut season I have only till six or are we But we should conclude by then We'll conclude by six without If I click leave am I going to be totally off the zoom? Yeah, I want to get yeah So in the middle of the bottom a green thing that's just share screen. Yeah, I clicked on that Okay, you know what I want to do is get to my desktop It should if you had if you had the document already open it would just you could share it from there So john i'm just going to walk through says nope. Okay, just Okay, why don't you have any more questions on the sign or is everyone okay with the monument? I'm okay the sign All right, and then um So, you know the pin letters that are on the sign are probably going to be pretty similar. Um As what's on the building right john. Yeah. Yeah, and so we had talked smaller. Okay, I'll be smaller Yeah, they're really it's here on the north elevation. This is facing the parking lot where my um Cursor is it's right over the entry door And this is something that they we had talked about this uh as part of the Original hearing and then it is again um Right here in the banding on the um south elevation So it's a From main street. Yep, and over the door Okay, and if you drop down Nate that drawing there's a detail Uh manufacturers cut I think of the of the letters itself. Oh, yeah up here Okay, and this is the back view because they have several different methods of attaching these they could go flush You could have a furrow sort of spacer there For a material that's uneven And pretty much it's going to be flush if we could do it or at most it will be a quarter of an inch away from the From the fascia board And there'll be metal letters Okay Excuse me, it sounds attractive. Yes Yeah Okay, john Next item I think Now the building eve overhangs um I increased and I just if I could share my drawing you could see what it's increased to we could you know It's hard to see at this scale uh I think I think the easy thing to say is that you know the commission recommended a um was like 15 to 18 inch overhang All right, john and you've met that. Yeah, we have we have 16 on on one end on the Not this end we there's about 12 to 14 inches on this end. I think it shows as 12 inches. It used to be eight And if you go to another elevation, Nate if you slide the screen over On this gable end, it's uh a good 16 inches Okay, and that's the flat part. That's the fascia part. Yeah, I think we can see that you've Is that that's been attended to? All right, okay And uh, let me see the Additional divided light windows. So if we look at the south elevation And again, this is on my revised big number five drawing, Nate if I could I don't want to lose the zoom Let me just let me just try it again if I open the drawing on your screen and then share See what happens. I just don't know how to get to my desktop I just That's where I put him because not too long ago. I was able to click on my desktop You know, and it would go right to the screen sharing Like do you have the documents open right now on your on my desktop? Yeah Well, they're not open. They're they're shortcuts Oh, I think the problem john's having is that he can't see his desktop. He's he's locked into this zoom thing Well, I can't wait a minute. Let me let me I'm gonna click on one There we go. You see that or do I only I see it Only you see it Yeah, uh, Nate, maybe if you stop your share might be easier. Yeah, I was just about to do that and I can um How do I do that? I can't yeah I think you've stopped it because I'm looking at you You don't need to be looking at me So now john Um, I lost that band on top that allowed me to okay. Now it's on bottom. It says in green share screen Under all of our faces Got a exit minimized. I got building. No, I don't have a oh, let's see here No, I don't Yeah, I don't think I don't have your plans that john could we go back to just what I was showing I think the commit would that be helpful or yeah, sure Oh, wait a minute. What is this who can share all panelists. So it looks like Yeah, I'm not sure why But this is the south elevation you're talking about the windows Yeah There's a plan view You know that this plan view that's uh, uh, you don't have it. I'm moving my cursor around Yeah, if we got if you go to the south elevation Yeah And before When we appeared before you I think we only had Three divided lights here and there's some question that you guys had about the symmetry versus the asymmetry And it was kind of undecided but you accepted what we had shown which was this Which was the two either side of the door And a third one going to the east And then there was a solid panel further to the east That went against the projected wing that came out right and what we've done is that we've Made it divided lights all the way across we've we've taken that part of building clabbered there the last one furthest east That was against the building and turned that into divided lights, which also goes into their You know entry lobby Main functional space exhibit space Uh multi-purpose space And what we've done is we've added a fifth one on this side to kind of give some symmetry around the two columns rather The column short with the divided lights and this actually goes into jimless goes office And he could turn it off but on our interior once you're inside we'd like to return these divided lights 90 degrees Um, there's some background noise if I were getting I just Does anybody need to mute? Yeah, I think Can you go to the plan Nate on the same drawing sure, okay, you gotta move in yeah That's right here. I'll zoom in a little bit So here are the five now what used to be three Here are the five and this one this last one Sits inside the director's office and we plan to have possibly that return Into the lobby area so it kind of reflects these four panels that that are Cast into the lobby and also another panel where jim the director can see into the lobby or choose not to So we're you know, we thought that was a better Solution to the to the front there you guys might not You know, we could go back to the what we had shown but in reality this seems to be A little more expansive of what the entry should be So just quickly let's see where with those So the so here's what was shown previously on the approved Um If you can see that on the approved what was shown earlier So I just keep doing man. Here we are. So it's here You know originally it was just a three and now it's Oh, where am I? Now it's the five right here. I think it's much nicer. I do too Aesthetically much nicer Yeah, it's just lighter. You see less of the The wood, you know just the solid facade right also it doesn't leave that West column the portico west column hanging out there, right, you know It's got it's got glass on either side of it even though the portico is projected forward, right, right It's much more graceful. I agree it is Can I just ask a question? Did this come about because of the planning board had this suggestion or no? It came back because we had more time. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, I agree with um We were Yeah, I think you know as we go through these just you know, think about when we get to the end, you know Will the commit, you know, are these changes? in keeping with the um the conditions and the certificate and then You know, if so then, you know, there doesn't need to be a new application So I just want to make sure we're yeah, right from that perspective. Yeah, okay Continue, I'm sorry. Uh, if you go to the plan Nate go back to the plan the most recent one Yeah, let me just zoom out a tad Back where the compressors are in the uh northwest corner there There was a picket fence which is still there but the picket fence actually continued all the way across to where the break in the wall returns for the Rear entrance to the building there And that wasn't enough room for the bicycles. It was just it was just wasn't working So if you look at the north elevation, you could see how it reflects In the elevation where the pickets the pickets are under those two windows and that's where the compressors are And this is the bicycle rack here. So the bicycles we parked here before we had those pickets Continuing in the third bay there And it just made it very awkward to get at the bicycles And it didn't seem like it was necessary Okay Now the the next thing is the lighting And bucky you've included a photometric light plan and we we took all the uh suggestions for making sure there was a fully accommodating north parking lot for travel, but also nothing really glaring and nothing outrageous originally we had some soffit lights under the soffits that were down lights and They had to become larger than we had thought to illuminate the light We needed in the in the parking area and there was concern about the the cars that were parked closest To the wall on the north side and those people crossing To getting into the entrance And now we've got an even distribution and in doing that We had to do two things. We had to add two polites one here by where the sign is Uh, okay one on the west side one here Can you see can you see here by the monument sign? Yeah, yep, and then there's One on the west side. They're 10 feet high and on this sheet is the type of uh shielded Fixture that sits on top of it more like a lantern contemporary lantern more than the old-fashioned carriage lanterns And then there's a a a bollard What there are there are two parking spaces here and to get enough light At this part of the site. There's a low three-foot bollard here Which in on the left You could see bollard and it's just kind of an overhanging short cap that's uh Not centered but just overhangs eight or ten inches of the bollard And it faces in towards the property And one last light we we needed was on the building here right at this point Made over to you right there. Yeah, right there. We had to put a uh a shielded light that gives us light here Throughout and if you drop down on the sheet Yeah, I'm singing. I'm taking notes Right there you know, I I think it's about 12 inches by 14 inches, you know, and it's slim line And it directs most of the light down and out not in anyone's face Um It's screened and it was chosen by Actually the same vendor That works with you guys and also advised us on the the poll lights and that one bollard light Yeah, so there's yeah, so to summarize, there's you know, two poll lights the bollard and then the exterior Light and with the exception there there We eliminated the this downed soffit lights That continued around that soffit overhang of the whole building and we just have them over the north entry the south entry And uh, I believe that's it buck. Are you there? Yes, Sam All right, you know, those are the only two That are different. They'll go in soffits above the entries Yes, one light over each entry Okay exit And do those remain on like when the um office is closed I believe we have stipulated with the planning board that the lights over the doors would be 24 7 Uh, which so there's always a glow against the building But it is really just against the building that the lights that illuminate the parking lot will shut off at 9 30 p.m Okay Okay, thank you And bruce do you does this this is where I defer to bruce's our resident architect does this um, I it seems Fine, I mean I can't really all those little um Tiles that you see across the uh, the the parking area there have got um Lumen counts on them. So it tells you the intensity of the lighting and all Uh, this is way more than we uh had So yes, that seems fine and but it basically I think the The the the issue for us is Um, maybe nate I have to ask your guidance here the the the fixtures appear to me to be fine. They look like they're they're thoughtful decent, uh, Technically um sophisticated solution uh lighting solution concepts and so forth and um But they weren't there to begin with um But I think we knew that there would be something like this that would be necessary because Solving a lighting uh Lighting design solutions cannot happen in schematic design. They really are things that have to be To you know, they're they're advanced design decision making So I would like to think that this would be de minimis From the point of view That we knew that something like this would happen. Even if we didn't knew exactly what it was and where it was going to go um, so I I want to uh judge this to be not just uh Uh, uh satisfactory design, but also a de minimis change um am I How would we be stretching it from a I don't know from a quasi legal point of view if we were to make that uh finding No, I think that's the commission's uh decision. So bruce you already have kind of um qualified it that you know, they're You know, I thought is there was lighting there were site Um, you know other structures already on the plan that were it was approved. So, you know, they had the um They had socket lighting. They had a monument sign They had a fence. So to me, you know, if the commission believes that adding these uh, three other um, you know, kind of modest Posts and a ballard are de minimis. Then I think there's enough happening With the project that that it is. I mean if yeah, if for instance You know, they put in uh six light posts You know, the commission might say, okay, that seems like a little much, you know So I think it's both the quantity and um, you know the size and everything. So, you know, I think You know, if the commissioner agrees with bruce, then I think it's fine to say it's de minimis. It's minimal change You know, that's that's the yeah, okay, but I'll say what I think I think it's a good solution Okay, thank you That covers number eight as well because uh, we did it as much for the the parking as well as for the pedestrians number nine, uh We had to take the steps which were turned which had been rotated originally 90 degrees exiting to the north And this is just an emergency egress Um, it won't be an entrance to the building because of the two parking spaces That are there because of the proximity That we needed to get away from the building and not have much left for the stair The best solution for us was to turn it 90 degrees To have an exit straight out going to the east the other option was to turning it Another 90 degrees and having it exit to the south, but we didn't think we thought that was more ungainly than uh Than what we showed here is here's what was posed it turned into the parking space And here is what is the changes are Functionally, I think This is better because instead of turning it into one parking space you uh deposited more or less between the two Um, and I think that from an aesthetic point of view the the this is this change to all pretty much all happens below two feet or two Thereabouts two feet down so it's uh It's it's it's therefore I would say probably inconspicuous or not Relatively inconspicuous and and depending on what landscaping is done. You wouldn't see it from the street I mean the change you wouldn't see from the street You'll see the entrance or the exit and so forth. So I I think I understand why you're doing it And from my point of view I think it's a functional improvement and a Change which is de minimis because it is you haven't so low in the profile of the building Great. Thank you Number 10 is what we've already discussed about the lamppost And the cutoff shielded low baller light number 11 We've put on the elevations on this particular drawing We've reshpaced the decorative vertical joints. We've reshpaced the the louvers we've Had because of some interior partitions It caused us to move some of the windows a little bit left or right But the general feeling is the same. I think it gives you what you wanted with the louver spacing before might have been a little more random We've added a decorative Flat-faced pillar to frame those louvers On each side which we have throughout the rest of the building And we centered that one light that we needed On the Back to those pillars and we've also located the little vent holes that we needed So it's more regular than it was So before here's here's what it was before so that you know similar banding plasters You know vents and everything but I mean I think there was a discussion about having the louvers match the Some of that Articulation and that's what is happening here. Yeah, that's exactly our member because I was I was concerned to change what you showed first time to what you now show This is exactly what I personally was Trying to cause to happen Good Item number 12 is the attic storage area plan on the original presentation It seemed to fill the whole attic. We're limited to a A travel distance of no more than 75 feet You know down to the bottom riser on the ground floor from the farthest point up in the attic. So Nate if you could Move that throwing down. I think there's an attic plan on this. Well, hold on. Is this Is this even in our baby wing? No, but it was a change from what you had seen It's outside. It's inside the building. So it doesn't it doesn't relate to us. But john, it doesn't change the roof Oh, not at all. Okay. So that's yeah, all right Uh 13 are the decorative vertical joints at the south elevation upper facing that have been respaided space Similar to what we did at the north Here. Um, yeah there 14 we've included a planning plan which bucky do you have That or I do would you like me to try and share that? I can share that again is the planting something that that that is in our The only the one is there was a condition that there would be a permanent vegetative screen So it's essentially like a fence Um between you know on the parking edge so Um, I'm lost where I am here. Oh, here we go. Yeah, um, I don't know if this is still the same Bucky if this is yeah, that's that's the current that's a current landscape plan Yep, okay You're typically landscaping's exempt unless, you know, for instance, we've made it The commission has done it in a few instances where you know, it requires a permanent screen. So If that's still the case, I think that is fine. I'm not sure if there's anything else that's Um Being used as a screen or anything. It's just regular landscaping, right? Yeah Uh, yeah, that's true. We do have on the east side There are two parking lots and one thing that the in addition to the landscaping around the building They wanted a vegetative bed a more diminutive one. Yeah right there that you're showing Nate So we're that's a pollinator planting bed That will help hide those two cars that are also designated as guest parking Okay, and are those um Kind of evergreen so the beach No, actually they they're very specifically designed off of you mass is uh pollinator friendly planting suggestion that the town has adopted At least in some cases. So that is uh, it does grow up and but during the winter it is it is relatively minimal There isn't a lot of space there and evergreens do take up a decent hunk of space, right? But on the west side, those will be evergreens. Oh, yes, those uh, those are um, They're not boxwoods, but they look a lot like boxwoods. Okay. I I'm not the landscaper, but I think it's just on my title block Okay Why they stopped there and it's sort of not and not alone the side of the building also I'm sorry. What's the question? Well, I'm curious. I'm curious to know why they're stopped where they're stopped and on the What would that be the West side and not so the building the evergreens are strategically placed to Obfuscate the parking lot and the cars from anybody on the west side So if you're up at the triangle street intersection, you were looking at this site You wouldn't see the parking lot because of those Evergreens are also elevated higher. This doesn't have the grading plan shown but there the parking lot is a few feet lower As you go down along the west side of the building as john mentioned earlier There's a a curve that is going to go along the side of the building and there's a narrow planting strip there That's also going to help provide a little softness to the western facade of the building I mean the vegetation So typically vegetations exempt. I think in this instance it was Um a condition because it's considered a permanent screening screening for parking. So if You know if to me if later amherst media wants to do more plantings That's something they do on their own. It's not really something that the commission conditions Right. So we had really promised am the women's club also. We were concerned just about the view from grace from um Cry angle street, but also for the the women's club that when they had events You wouldn't be looking into the parking lot. Yeah, you've got multiple multiple barriers on that the parking lot is about Uh five feet lower than the property line. So right there. It's it's Well, it the cars are not five feet tall Yeah, maybe maybe a cargo van would be but most vehicles are lower than just the grade change right there So the parking lot's already hidden but adding those evergreens Will help on the western side for sure. Yeah And also if you remember we had a number of views and two of the views were from the hills house and the women's club looking down towards this, uh north west corner of the building and What we have there is the roof if you go up to the uh, if you go back to the north elevation bucky That's nice me. Um, I'm sorry Hey That's all right All right Yeah, if if you see at the uh, the west end of the building there where the compressors are There's that roof pitch continues down as a canopy That uh goes over and shelters those compressors on the bicycles And I don't know if you remember but the view that we had looking down from both the women's club and hills house with that canopy and with the The grade change and with the boxwoods You know, you could barely see through to any of the automobiles that are there And if you could there as bucky says they're quite low Yeah, I think that's good. I mean the So we're talking about screening for the parking lot. That's what our previous conversation was focused on Not not the building and if we're doing our collectively our job properly We want to be able to see the building because we have we want to like what we see But the parking where you agreed would be shaded and I think having low boxwood like things is work because Often if the trees get a little taller what happens is that the The the vegetation between ground level and two feet or so thins out and then that would be exactly the wrong place for the vegetation to be screened out in this instance because the the the the real um hard work of the screening shall we say Of those boxwoods is really in the the the first two or three feet or two to four feet from the ground level So we do want vegetation that's that stays dense all the way to ground level. I would think And it it sounds like If these are like box bushes, then that would be Yeah, the planting plan. I think it was um It was called out Sorry, I couldn't read it, but you said it was like box. It's barenwort. Is that sound right pocky? It's uh Epidemiom um, I It's funny that does not know it's planting bed e not not that's uh i d So yeah, I was right the planting beds on the right side of those Oh god, so that doesn't make sense to me. Um Where are we planting bed yikes? Um, oh Planting bed e yes Steve's japanese holly. Okay. Yeah But they when you look at them to my and i'm not a plant expert, but they really look a lot like boxwoods They're just a slightly different species. So they will fulfill that Functional requirement that I was suggesting was the most important Yeah, they say it says it on it. Um, you know, they have a they're four to six feet Four to six foot spread and four to eight feet tall. So this you know, pretty much like a square bush Yeah, when you're a bill gillian was enamored of the planting when you approach The the side rear from the parking lot of both the in at boat And when you go in that way when you get out in your car, you're in the parking lot There is a number of plants uh against the building, but then there are a number of plants that kind of Surround a a area that they might use a podium area that they might use as a presentation area of some sort or a Gathering spot and those are the plants that you know, we had hoped to use here And I don't know the latin. I assume they are but So Peggy you're asking them. Yeah, Peggy you're asking a while ago. Would they continue the screening down further? Is that but Yes, I think to me it looks like it would look kind of abruptly cut off and then you're looking at the side of a building Rather than a continuation of whatever lovely trees or bushes have been have been uh planted but uh So it seems to me that it would be it would be more graceful and more in line with the design to have that Continue down to the side to the front edge of the building along the whole side of the building There is infrastructure buried I will say that The utility site plan on this there there are you there are structures there So installing shrubbery woody woody shrubbery over that is not really going to be possible Because it would interfere with the stormwater system Uh, which turns that the western slope and it keeps it a nice gentle slope But that's only possible by having multiple tanks and pumps buried in that location Also, this is a good illustration of the grade change um Heading towards the north from that northwest corner again, which is reasonably steep compared to further down going to the south which You know expansively opens up the lawn area which the neighbors wanted to Keep, you know, they wanted to see that lawn as much as they could Looking down from hills house and from the uh women's club Yeah, I'm also afraid that I mean we can't impose a new condition now Right, right So it's approaching six. I know we're going to lose people so we should see if we can wrap this up Well, the last thing is uh, we've You're not concerned with the interior rooms But we did show now a curved sidewalk and low of the perpendicular sidewalk that came directly out And we also indicated gutters and downspouts on the Yeah, both of those I think John were requests of ours and I think he's done what we asked for So if you know that that covers it, you know, um You know the wall in the back just just so everyone the way, you know, at one point the retaining wall along the north was Maybe was going to have a concrete, um, you know, um Structure and then have whether it be a face of dry laid, but now it's going to be, uh, you know an all dry laid stone wall You know the visual appearance hasn't changed necessarily, but the construction of it has I just you know for the commission's benefit Right, so it will be because I would think stone is preferable to cement Right, right. So I think this is a better scheme All around So I just want to ask so in terms of like this the stone wall and those additional windows on the front That is the way it's going to be this is This yes, right that won't change No, it won't okay. I mean, we're just looking for your blessing right now And right these were the major changes we want to run past you Yeah, I mean I would if the commission if the commission feels they're de minimis We could have a motion and a vote and then You know, and then they're the amorous media can proceed. So there's no you know And if we think there is something that you know, you have questions about we could ask it Okay Are there any questions? I have none that I haven't already asked Yeah, I've also I've also looked at the drawings And and and beyond what john has Advised in his letter I don't see anything that It wasn't in the letter that should have been or could have been it The the the document seems to From the elevation standpoint particularly And everything that we had asked yeah, and I agree with Greta and car and I actually think Adding those windows just lightens up the facade. I think that's a big improvement. Yeah So I I'm prepared to move that the the commission having viewed the The The current whether they design development plans Well Is there this yeah, I mean we could say that we haven't started construction documents yet. Yeah, and the owner wants a lot of interior particulars which Don't go to your Now let's let's let's phrase it differently having the commission having viewed the Come the design drawings for a completed uh product Do I go specifically for the exterior finds the the drawings consistent with our earlier earlier deliberations and any and the noted changes to be uh de minimis I second Can I ask then uh now that we have a proportionate Nate is that phrasing Does does that cover the technical requirements? Does does that cover our obligations in this matter? Yeah, right. Is it being properly expressed from that standpoint? Yeah, there's a little statically reading I haven't you know, uh view the plan view the plans and it's consistent with The certificate and delay deliberations Um, so the changes are de minimis. I think that was fine Okay, yeah Is there a second to the motion? I thought you Jennifer seconded it No, I don't think i'm allowed to okay for some reason. I thought oh you asked if there was a second. Oh, sorry Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry. I thought we had a second. Oh, no Uh Okay, karin. Okay, so we'll do the voice vote again for all in favor bruce. Oh, no peggy's at the top of my screen Peggy Yep, okay bruce I approve Um, moving down karin I approve Greta, I approve with jim. I approve Yeah, i'm jennifer and I approve and for amish media since we're zooming in we have to do a voice vote So yes, can I say jennifer? um, uh to To john and to bucky and and I think uh in the background there was jim and uh and uh and others that I think you've Done very well and uh I think this is uh Very very satisfactory Result from my point of view Thank you. Thank you. Thanks john. Thanks bucky. Thank you. I'm an ed. Thank you guys. Happy to help Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Bye. Bye guys, I think the um I was just gonna I think that's everything. Um It is it's everything that was on the agenda. Yep. Well, that's good because it's four minutes past somebody's pumpkin time Do we need to set a new day next day or do we have one? I think um, do we have one? I think we have one. Yeah, we have the next meeting. Is that the 28th? Uh Of october We have a few um, we do have a few applications that are coming in Um, let me see the 29th 28th is a wednesday. Do you mean that? Yeah, I don't have another meeting Would we I guess maybe we didn't I I may be 20 We do the 20 uh 26 of october next monday Okay, oh my god, that's a week before election day. Okay. Is that fine with everyone? We'll set a 26th Yeah, four o'clock again In the document it said three o'clock that we're meeting. It's true. It did say three o'clock. Yeah Oh, sorry. I must have uh keyed it wrong I checked to see if today's meeting was at four. I did too, jennifer. I did too But we will meet at four on the 26th. Yeah, and we'll probably just let you know 19 19 mclellan Is going to resubmit if they haven't the port one And there's a number of applications being discussed in terms of projects, you know in both districts So there could be you know anywhere from like one to four projects on the 26th. It all depends on what actually comes through Okay Okay, thank you very much. Thank you everyone. This was a long meeting. So Thank you, jennifer Thank you, every so we