 or have questions either for Jessica or Michael? Yes, I have one for each of you. Let's see if this works. Yes, if I can start asking you, Michael, this, I mean, it's seen from an ecological point of view. You would think that if you were isolated, you would go looking for someone to hang out with. So did you see or did you measure whether these isolated flies moved around more? I mean, they slept less, but did that actually mean that they, you could sort of interpret it ecologically as if they were trying to find others? Right, so we have looked at whether they showed more motion, more movement during the waking time and they don't. But then they may know it's futile to look for others because they're in a tube by themselves. But it's, yeah, I think it must be a pretty strong signal that something's very wrong if none of your compatriots are around. I mean, it strikes me as something that would have pretty deep evolutionary roots. Why would this happen? Why is this a benefit? And if everybody's gone, maybe that's a pretty good signal that something catastrophic is at hand. So what do you do to protect yourself if you're a fly? You stay alert and you consume as much food as you can handle. But this is a good, it might be interesting to put them in arena and see what kinds of interactions emerge on being reunited. We know that if we reunite them that sleep comes back to normal and appetite comes back to normal. But we haven't looked at the behavioral aspects of, did they show some level of extra effort to get back to their comment? Yeah, it would be interesting if the cage was bigger, maybe it would be possible to study something like that. I don't know. May I also ask a question for Jessica? I was super interesting with this focus on taxonomy and collections. I think that is a very under communicated issue. The fact that we need these collections for so much of our science. And I just wanted to ask you, do you have any ideas of how we can work to get more students to study taxonomy and become taxonomists? Good question. Yeah, that is a good question. We actually talked about it a little bit during the lunchtime discussion about what was considered to be a womanly pursuit was often to go out and collect feathers and shells and create cabinets of curiosity. And there was a history and entomology of this being something that could be an excellent pastime to do taxonomy. And we like to sort things, we like to categorize things. I think somebody showed yesterday their child kind of identifying differences amongst animals. We love doing that. And somehow we get away from the idea that taxonomy is cool by the time we reach high school. So I think it has to start from a very early age, perhaps, underscoring that systematics and taxonomy is important. It's not dusty. It's not something from the past. We're still actively discovering species. I mean, I feel kind of like Indiana Jones. You're kind of like going out and exploring and really discovering new species can be exciting. We just don't communicate that. We imagine taxonomy as kind of as the two characters in Silence of the Lambs who are just kind of deprived from sun just sitting in a dark room looking at fly maggots. That's not what systematics is. Systematics is a vibrant science. It includes biochemistry and genomics and morphology and histology. It's more than just staring at an insect in a vial or on a pin. So we need to kind of glamorize the taxonomy, I think, from a very early age. Thank you. Yes, John. Yeah, I think this is a question for Michael primarily. A big theme in your work clearly is finding surprising commonalities between fruit flies and humans, including these extraordinary data you were just presenting about social isolation leading to loss of sleep in both cases. I'm curious about how this has changed the way you see the flies as individual creatures and whether it's changed the way you treat them. Whether, for example, it might lead you in the future to think let's be careful about keeping these flies in socially isolated conditions. Yeah. Well, this is the first thing my wife brought up when I showed her the data. These little flies have some kind of an emotional response. And of course, that's one way to look at it. When I was in college, I can remember that you were always, there was a lot of pushback if you ever tried anthropomorphic kinds of thoughts were always pushed back. But the more homologies you see, the more you think, why would you rebuild the system from scratch? And so if this is the way you can get a certain behavior, then why wouldn't it apply to another organism? So are they depressed in anything like the way we would think about it? And I think it's a real possibility that there's something like that going on. One of the things that I'd really like to understand and we're still struggling with ways to pursue it is when we turn those neurons off and make the responses go back to baseline, have we relieved the stress of social isolation or are we just, is the animal still in distress but we've cut off its ability to express that? And I think I lean to the side of the former where we're in the easiest explanation for losing two different responses, I think, is to say you've relieved the stress that was associated with the problem. Also brings up questions about humane treatment of prisoners. Isolation may be a form of treatment that has many more connotations than when you originally, you throw somebody into isolation and in the penal system, for example, is this an added form of punishment that was not appreciated before? I mean, I'm sure we'd all agree that in the case of humans, social isolation raises serious ethical concerns. I mean, do you see this as having practical implications for how you treat the flies? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yeah. You know, it rang strong. We didn't, you know, this story wasn't told yet when you were talking about these things but as I was thinking about our own work, I could understand where the question was coming from. And it goes back to this question, you know, is it one chicken or one fly? What's the difference? Is it the weight of the animal or is it the response that is elicited by whatever insult you produce? I guess that's maybe why there was concern about raising millions of insects instead of one chicken or was that a stronger ethical position? And I think that's a difficult question. Hopefully we'll know more about what's going on in fly's head in the future. Can I ask a question related to that? It's a technical question, it's a quick one, I think. Yep, and then the second hand. Have you, these were, I assume, like a lab-reared strain? Yeah? Some of them were, yeah. Some of them were isolated from nature. And, oh, okay, I hope that's better. Some of the strains that we tested were isolated from nature and particularly those that had naturally longer or shorter intervals of sleep. So as I was saying, like many individuals, human individuals, that will tell you that they have lesser or greater requirements for sleep. And it really didn't matter and as I was saying, this wasn't just limited to Drosophila melanogaster, we saw it in several Drosophila species. So we haven't gone beyond that, but we probably should. And I was just thinking because, I mean, I'm thinking about their ecological aspects of Drosophila, right, that they often do feed together. I know that they're often on the fruit together and I'm just wondering if you suddenly end up that you're the only one on the fruit. I'm just wondering if it's loneliness or like, maybe, like you said, maybe something's wrong and I should be going somewhere else. So I'm just to push back on your loneliness just a little bit, cause this is what we're supposed to do here. No, no, I agree. I mean, maybe it is that the reason that the metabolism and everything is up-regulated because the fly is going, all right, there's something wrong with this food cause I'm the only one here. Maybe I need to fly somewhere else, but of course they can't cause they're in year two. I'm just curious. No, I agree. I agree. It's almost as if you need a taster, you know, it's, you know, it's a sale. Like if you're the only one in the restaurant, you look in the restaurant, you always look in a restaurant. If there's nobody in there, you think, maybe I shouldn't be eating here. Yeah, I'm just wondering if that's, it's a similar, so it's not loneliness, but kind of like, maybe this is really, there's something wrong with this food. Yeah. Only these guys are eating. Yeah, so, yeah, but then, I mean. But I take your point because who knows what the response to that kind of stress would be, but you're absolutely right. Second, you had a question. So my question to Jessica. So I was really, thanks for the excellent presentation, but I was really struck by the colors, a variety of colors of dragonflies. And I was sitting thinking, why would they have evolutionarily that type of color, knowing that maybe there will be the next meal to the variety of this other organism. So why does that want to attract attention with the colors or does the colors have any impact on that? Why does it have that color? Those colors, yeah. That is a good question. And color is a really big part of the story of dragonflies. And there's two main types of color, structural color, where there's kind of bumps and ridges on the cuticle. When light bounces off of it, eyes can perceive it as being kind of a metallic or shiny color. And then there's the coloration that is granules of pigment inside their epithelial cells. It can migrate up and down. And that actually, dragonflies are able to kind of change their color. So they can be what's called bright phase, where they are very bright color. And they can be what's called a dark phase or a very dark color. And we don't exactly know the purpose of all of their color, but we know that their eyes are capable of seeing a wide range of colors. So we think communication is part of it. Some of the color patterns are their wings. We see behaviors that dragonflies do, but they kind of flash their wing patterns. And we think that there's sexual, you know, communication that's taking place. We also think thermoregulation is part of it. So dragonflies that are quite cold tend to be in dark phase. And early in the morning, when you first find dragonflies, they tend to be in dark phase. And we think that perhaps they're absorbing as much sunlight as they can, and heat, because they need to have a certain amount of energy for their flight muscles to kind of work and for them to be able to take off in flight. And indeed, you know, frogs jump out of the water to catch them, fish jump out of the water to catch them. And there are some dragonflies and damselflies. They're all doing this kind of mating dance at the water. Very vulnerable time for them. And there are some like RJ Apicalith, which is a damselfly, that as soon as they complete mating, they actually go from bright phase to dark phase. And some like Amanda Wispel did her PhD on this. She argued that this was so that you could avoid being seen by predators. So they're, it's a very complex story, the story of color in dragonflies. But we think a lot of it is this combination of thermoregulation and communication. Perfect, thank you. I have another question from the audience for you, Jessica. The research you and your colleagues have done on dragonflies is fascinating. And it's complex. And the question is, are there similar types of exploration of the systematics of other insects, perhaps some that aren't quite as charismatic as we might consider old mates to be? For sure. I mean, there are some systems to study all different types of insects, but there may not be as many of them. So there are groups of entomologists who spent their whole life studying lice. They collect lice, they dissect lice, they do genomics of lice, but they don't have big international lice meetings the way that we have big international dragonfly meetings take place. Well, they do. I mean, every meeting could be a lice meeting if you have lice. So there are entomologists who study different groups, but there are, I would say that the one common lament is that if you look at all across all of entomologists, and you look at what they study, a majority of them study social insects, so bees and some wasps, very few, relatively speaking, entomologists study the evolution of termites, even though they are social. A lot of people study butterflies. Butterflies are large charismatic animals. And if we look at those two groups, social, that relates to humans, and beautiful, you know, butterflies, and we like beautiful things. So things like earwigs, things like various, like for ecology, various ear mites, you know, headlights, pubic lice, these are things that people spend far less time pondering, but they have an evolutionary trajectory that's really interesting and fascinating too. So I would say there's an entomologist for every kind of insect, but the number of entomologists for some insect groups is really high, and the relative number of entomologists for other insect groups is really low. So coming back to your comment about reaching out to students, encouraging them to go into systematics, you need to be pursuing lice, and fleas, and earwigs. Is that what I'm hearing? Okay. So when I started... That's gonna get them in. Everybody loves a lice biologist. I will say, I had a graduate student years ago who's now a professor at the University of Illinois at her band in Champaign. His name is Dominic Evangelista, and he said, he really wanted to study, he was interested in cockroaches, and he really wanted to study cockroaches. I said, there is almost no one studying the best social behavior of the subsocial roaches. There's very few people that are studying the evolutionary behavior, the evolutionary trajectory of cockroaches. If you go and study cockroaches, you could be like the cockroach person, and he really liked that idea, becoming the cockroach person, and now he kind of is the cockroach person in the States at least. And so if you like the idea of being an expert on a group, there's a lot of groups for which we don't really have kind of living experts, because unfortunately we lose taxonomists, and we lose expertise. So there's probably a beetle group that hasn't been studied since the 1920s, that you could be the expert on. You just need to dip your toe into entomology. I think earwigs could do a service to themselves if they would rename themselves, because that's not a, that doesn't invite participation. Another question that has been, this has been kind of a theme, I think, through all the talks is, so this is for you two in particular, but really anybody on the panel, why do the diverse experiences and perspectives of individuals who study insects influence the nature of what we learn, and why does this matter? That's a good question. I guess I could, do you wanna dive in? Well I was gonna say, I think, I mean we've seen how different the perspectives are, the different focus that's represented here, and I find it pretty refreshing. And something that we're, many of us molecular biologists, get a molecular biology meetings, and talk molecular biology, this is much more exciting. So I think it's important to hear these different ways of looking at biology, and the sense I get is maybe some of these tracks or something that can be added on and mixed with what we're doing. So it's very valuable. I think in the area of systematics, one thing that we see for insects, certainly for dragonflies, is that traditionally when people talked about selection, they talked about sexual selection, almost everything, and pardon me for talking about genitals again, but almost everything focused on male genitals, the male control of reproduction. So if we look at the kind of literature for insects, for dragonflies in particular, dragonflies are unique, because males have two penises, they have a penis at the tip of their abdomen, a secondary penis at the base of their, at the beginning of their abdomen, through which sperm is transferred, and people thought that was fascinating, and we kind of have focused a lot on male genitalia. But it turns out that female genitalia is actually fascinating too. Females have kind of, there's a lot of interesting things. Females are able to store sperm. In some cases, for dragonflies, they can store sperm for quite a long time, but in cases of things like termites, they can actually store them for decades. So understanding how female reproductive system works has been largely overlooked, and there's many people, and only just now, that are trying to kind of understand this other half kind of of the piece of the story. I think it's because we're having a diversity of voices, we're having kind of more gender parity in the scientists that are actually setting this, thinking maybe it's not all about the penis. Maybe there's something interesting that's happening in female reproduction as well. All right. All right. Every diverse background that comes into the field brings a new perspective, and with new perspectives, we ask new questions, and with new questions, we learn more. And so to go back to Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall-Kimmerer mentions how she wanted to study and how she went up to an advisor, and he said, what do you want to study in graduate school? And what she had to learn was sort of how to speak academic, but what she said she wanted to study was why goldenrod and whatever the purple flowers that go with it, so why do yellow flowers and purple flowers look so good together? And she was laughed at, and she was told that that's not a scientific question, but we saw it was beautifully in your image, and insects can see those colors better. And so it was her perspective of understanding the patterns in nature from her perspective, and she knew that purple and yellow happen together a lot. And so she needed help in the academic, like how do you form this into a testable question, but it was a genuine observation that deserved further, you know, looking into it. Anyone who has not read Robin Wall-Kimmerer is welcome to leave right now and rush out and start reading it because it is a spectacular book, Braiding Sweetgrass, or really any of her works, but that one in particular. Anyone else have thoughts about Margaret's question? Okay. Go ahead. You know, we have to go back to philosophy a little bit here, and you can correct my pronunciation here, Lisa. The philosopher, Wittgenstein, once said, if a lion could speak, we wouldn't be able to understand it. He would certainly have said the same thing is true for flies. By that he meant that our worldview is too distant from other animals for us to understand them. Do you think he was wrong? Can we really learn to think like flies? Can we really recognize the joy of bees? Yes. I'm sorry. My advisor told me that you can. And I mean, yeah, we're completely different. I agree. We can't see UV and Polar Zays, Riesli. I'm sorry. I had to just say this, but we live on the same planet. It's not like they're living on some other universe that we have. I agree. You know, maybe we'll find an alien species and we have no relationship to it because they have such a completely different world, but we live in the same world. We see the same blue and yellow flowers and the same. I mean, there are common allies. It's everything the same art, you know, as I think it was you that said that, you know, they don't have symphony orchestras and things like that for sure in Sextone. But we can learn how they do. As I said, there's basic things that they have to do. They have to eat. Michael showed this so nicely in his talk. You know, they do sleep, most of them. There's a lot of their basic needs that are very similar to ours. And the way that they find food by foraging is not so unlike the way we find food. They just do it while flying, like Jessica's beautiful dragonflies do. But I don't... I think it's a... I think it also... It's a little bit... This otherness that we create is also false. And it's also a little dangerous because the more we other, the more we also, you know, you would talk about this with humans, but I think that's also doing it with other animals as well as if they're so different than us that we can't possibly understand them. And then that starts this process of not caring about them. And they are really important. So yes, we can think like a fly. Thank you. Mike. Jonathan. Yes, I think understanding comes in degrees. There may be aspects of the ways of life of insects that we will always wonder about and that will always struggle to understand. You think about something as basic as seeing the plane of polarization of the light and seeing UV. We know they do that, but we don't know what it's like from the insect's point of view to experience like that. So in some ways, there'll be aspects of the experience that remain inscrutable, but the same is true of other people. You know, there are aspects of other people's experience that will remain inscrutable to us, but nonetheless, a huge amount of understanding and bridging is possible. And I think the same is true of insects. Thank you. I think that it's not that we... Part of me, I think, is that not what we wouldn't understand them. I think it would make me feel inferior that I can't sense the world the way they can. I mean, there's all these things. I can't see UV. I can't sense magnetic fields. And so I would know it like, I wouldn't... It's not that I wouldn't under... It's like a... It's the difference of like not understanding another language is like, I don't have that. Like you have the skill I don't have. And I think there's just, there's a different way of looking at it instead of ignoring them, being like, oh, I don't understand you. I think if we really think about it, we see how limited we are in our sensory perception. And so it's a lot of like, humans are not the exceptional ones on this earth. A new form of imposter syndrome. What? A new form of imposter syndrome. Yes. You know, years ago, when I started work on circadian rhythms, I had more senior colleagues that were behavioral biologists that said, what are you studying a fly for if you're interested in circadian rhythms? And it always struck me as quitting a little too early. And now we know, as you look at the components that are involved in regulating something like that behavior, they're the same components that we have. So how many other things are there that we can build from the bottom up that show, you know, you really do have a fly inside of us. You know, it's part of our heritage. And so why wouldn't there be vestiges of some of this? And you know, I agree completely with the issue of particular sensory abilities and so forth, but there's so much that we keep running into that is tangibly the same. So the last thing you wanna do is assume that when I, to my mind, you know, again, when I was an undergraduate, I was told that you couldn't assume that if a deer was running from a lion, that it was afraid, it just runs from lions. And I think that's a wrong way to think about the problem. So I'll follow up also with another question to you, Dr. Young. Research related to human well-being has generally focused on fruit flies. How could the study of other types of insects enrich our understanding of human well-being? And this question's going to you, but I also suspect that other folks on the panel can provide interesting perspectives on that. Yeah, that's a tough one having spent so many years, you know, being grateful to this little fly. You know, part of the problem is the problem, part of the problem of changing focus to another system is that there's so much that gets developed that you can use by others. So, you know, every year, every 10 years, you have completely new tools that allow you to go deeper and deeper. And those are not just immediately transferable to other systems. It'd be wonderful if some of those were, but I think there's still a long way we can go asking these kinds of questions in Drosophila and you've got a large body of people that have developed expertise in working with them and again, developing tools. And so I tend to run all that out before throwing up your hands and going somewhere else for certain kinds of questions. There are other kinds of questions with the wrong organism. Yeah. Well, I mean, if there was another insect group, I would just advocate to the group, right this, maybe we can all agree on this, that there should be a non-holomotabilist insect. So, fruit flies are in the holomotabila, they have an egg, larva, a pupa with a complete rearrangement in the adult stage. So, I think if you wanted to have another model organism, I think we should all agree right down now that it should be a non-holomotabilist insect, perhaps something near the base of the insect tree, perhaps something dragonfile-like, would be even the best, I think, let's go for it. So like maybe we have a little bit of cockroach in us too, along with that fruit fly. Exactly. Thank you. Yeah, crickets as well, I think, very interesting. It raises this big picture issue about the role of model organisms in science and in particular in the life sciences, where if you think of Drosophila, there's just so much stuff you can do with Drosophila that you could not do with any other animal because it has this whole technology built around it. So, you can use extraordinary technologies like optogenetics to study in just extraordinary detail and have incredible control over which neurons are active. And that can't be reproduced in bees or crickets or anything else. So, when we're doing studies in Lars Chickas' lab at Queen Mary, much more low-tech and we're not imaging individual neurons, we're looking at whole animal behavior because we're not using Drosophila. I think we need both kinds of research, really. We do need to be making the most of these technologies that exist and that have been developed for specific model organisms. But we need diversity of different species as well. That's what's motivating us to try and study crickets and try and study black soldier fly larvae. Let's have insect cognition labs that are full of different species of insects. And let's try and learn some of that stuff that we still don't know about their observable behavior. Randa, I was just thinking, I mean, with this loneliness, being alone versus being together with others of your species, like locusts, maybe it could be something interesting studying locusts that shift between these gregarious species and the solitary species. I mean, see if anything is parallel. And I mean, I guess we do know a bit about what triggers those shifts and it's super interesting because while they're solitary, they hate each other and then something happens and they are suddenly very good buddies and they love to be together. So I think that would be one group of organisms that could sort of maybe fit or fill in the picture from what we have learned about being lonely as a fruit fly. And I was also thinking, I mean, insects can not only help human health through model organisms, but also like these studies of leaf cutter ants that have specific antibiotics to make their fungi farming stay healthy. And I mean, by studying these ants, we can hope probably, or not probably, but hopefully we can look for and hopefully find new forms of antibiotics. That would also be super helpful. And that's another way of looking to insects to gain new insight that is good for human health. Can we move on? A number of people are asking a question about the implications of your research about loneliness. How can we use this information to help understand and prevent loneliness while also preventing a prescription drug culture to develop something that would cure, quote unquote, loneliness? Do you have hopes? Well I guess, yeah, so I guess early steps might be to look at a mammal, you know, a different research model. You know, does this happen in mice, for example? Are there specific areas of the brain? Or even before that, do you have changes in behavior that parallel what we see in a fly? And that would also make the comparisons that we've made, you know, they're distant comparisons to look at behavior in humans that seem to be in parallel, but I think you could gain a lot more confidence if you were looking at mice and you had molecular tools to say, yes, this behaves in a certain way in certain areas of the brain light up when the animal is isolated. And I think that's the kind of path I would tend to advise. Do you have, I guess I would ask, do you have worries about possible choices others might make in using your research? To all we need to do is invent a technique or a drug that would enable us to incarcerate people more effectively, for instance. Well I think before you get to that, you'd get to an appreciation of what you're doing when you incarcerate people. I would hope that that would be the thing that hits you first and that you respond to it. But I don't, that would be like dreaming up new forms of torture. I don't think that, I don't see anybody advocating for that that I work with. Yeah, that's a dangerous part of science. I mean, that's the history of my field. I mean, anthropology, we started out as typology of one group versus the other and started making value assessments that based on your skull size and this skull size, these people, usually the white people, were considered to be superior by their measures and then that was used in the Holocaust as justification. And so we have to be very careful in sort of how we do our science and present our science. So I don't know what you could do different to prevent this road but I think we need to, I think that is a legit question and a concern. I think it's also the choices of the experiments you do. I mean, I don't know if anyone thought about this but the VR work we are doing was essentially target search behavior and extracting that and I don't think it's a very long road from coming up with more efficient algorithms for target searching where you can get to some pretty scary conclusions. So we made very clear decisions in the experiments that we were doing to really tie them to ecology and really be careful that they couldn't at least very easily be misconstrued into something that could be used for, let's say, weaponry or something like this and I think you really have to think very far ahead. I know nobody would like an apple fly in an orchard like it doesn't but honestly that's how a lot of things happen, that you're actually only concerned about your little world and you don't even think about how it can be taken to a completely different place. So but I think we have an obligation as scientists to do that at all times and to really think like what is the craziest thing that somebody could do with our research and do your best as best you can to be true to the science but also be very careful that you don't open up doors that maybe you don't wanna open from your ethical and moral standpoint. So. Jonathan, did you want to? Yes, I mean, I think it could be a really good outcome of this research on loneliness if it feeds into preparation for future pandemics because we know that we will face situations like COVID-19 in the future and governments were flying blind at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic really not in a position to make decisions on the basis of evidence and so the benefits of lockdowns in terms of keeping people out of intensive care could be quantified and could be seen to be very large but the costs on the other side the costs of imposing a lockdown on people's mental health these were unquantifiable and so people simply had to guess and so one really good thing that could come out of this is if we work towards a situation where we have a much deeper understanding of the costs of these kinds of interventions and can weigh up the costs and benefits more accurately. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, some of those that suffered the most are the youngest people in the population those that didn't get to make those early social interactions that I think most of us think are pretty crucial and I guess you can build those up after the fact but would you want to do that again? I guess, you know, the next time around and there will be a next time around even something as simple as the effect on weight you are describing will have health consequences in that case in the future. Really hard to quantify. Margaret, I wonder if you'd like to ask a question that will enable us to bring this wonderful discussion to a close. This one's a short one this time. We're fortunate to have such a diverse range of expertise. I was wondering if any or all of you would speak to something that you have learned from one of the other speakers over the past two days. Good question. You're modeling now for our students. That was when you asked if we had questions for the speakers I'm like, no, but I want to like talk about the things I learned in the afternoon talks. And so for Jessica, the collections being moved on the slave ships, I had not heard that. That was new to me. We reckon a lot with the colonial history and anthropology, so it's nice to see it being discussed in entomology and so that was new to me and thank you for enlightening me to that. And then for your talk, Michael, I'm just so fascinated by the idea of ladybug pets for fruit fly. And so I just want to know more about that. That was just the coolest thing to learn, so. Well, it constitutes a good pet. Yeah, exactly. I want to know what species view each other in that companion kind of way. Yes, for me, I think learning is really nourishing. Every day I ask myself, what have I learned new? And if I'm not learning new, I always Google something to read. So this week was just marvelous because I learned from each person amazing, amazing things. So I'm really hoping that I would find the video online so that I can listen to everybody's talk again in the privacy of my home. It is just fabulous and wonderful to meet all of you. So it's really wonderful. And wonderful for the audience, also the excitement and the question, the interaction is just wonderful. Thank you. Thank you to you both. Yeah, I thought your description of these symbiotic interactions in mosquitoes was something that was completely new and extraordinarily high potential. And there have been so many attempts to do something about malaria that have hit dead ends and this sounds like an extraordinary new opportunity. And your plantings with plants, with propellant plants versus the crop that you want. And the weed killers, those were all fascinating to hear about, completely new. Thank you. I will go back and tell the team that they received a compliment from a novel laureate. They will be very happy to hear that. Jonathan, did you have a question? Yes, I was thinking, I mean, I've learned a huge amount. But one thing we've learned is that there is an audience. We've learned that there is an audience for hard discussions about the science and ethics of insects. And I think that wasn't really obvious at all. At the point of planning this event, it was a brave thing in a way to make this the theme. And I think it's been an ingenious theme because we've seen over and over again how important and urgent and huge these issues are and how entangled insects are with questions of sustainability, how to live together, how to preserve the natural environment. And that's a great discovery. And I think the more conversations like this we can have, the better. We know people are ready for them and we need to keep that going and just try and talk to more and more people, get these conversations happening in more and more different places. I think we're at a very precarious point in humanity. I think we're at a point where there's a lot of potential and I think there's a lot of possibility for destruction as well that we're already seeing. And I think we have a choice to make and how we're going to go forward. And I think what I learned from each of these speakers is that whether you're taking it from, you know, an ecosystem or ethics or human well-being or food security or biodiversity or living in the global south that there are real questions that we need to answer and real avenues that need to be pursued. Insects are part of these questions but there's also a lot of work that needs to be done and a lot of fronts. I think we covered so many things this was not a conversation about insects, it was a conversation about the role of governments and corporations and, you know, ethical science ethics and so many things. And I think that it really shows that we need to have more conversations like this. I think this conference is a very good example where bringing together people from very diverse backgrounds is needed at so many levels today. And I hope that the people in the audience continue to have these conversations in their communities and at your school and seek out people different from you to talk to them about suffering or loneliness or whatever you talk about, right? Because I think this is what is needed today and this is what is going to drive change. Yes. I'm on the last one. No, I think like you said, I think also I've learned something from each and every speaker and I've really enjoyed being in a setting like this, really all of it, the entire conference with this much contact also with the student groups. And I think at some early stage, I guess yesterday, I talked to someone about that we have too few sort of playgrounds in science or for scientists and or in academia where we can sort of have advanced discussions but still on sort of a level where we are allowed to ask these sort of dumb questions or say that we don't know the words in that sort of a discipline. So I really think it is so rewarding to be part of a setting like this and to exchange, to listen and to have conversations and to exchange opinions about such a broad concept. And like you were saying it, in a way this is how we should talk about insects because they influence every part of our society. They do influence all this food security, the ethics, everything. So yeah, I think this conference really sets a good example of how we should talk about insects, include them in all sort of walks of life and all parts of society. So thank you for being part of this. I like everyone has said I really feel like I've learned a lot and I think the thing that I learned as I do whenever I've had the good fortune of speaking in an interdisciplinary setting like this is how different our styles or presentation are. I actually find this fascinating because different schools, the way that we present data, the amount of data that we show, the way that we use the stage and the podium, the way that we talk about insects, the vocabulary that we use is slightly different even though we might be talking about very similar things. So I've actually learned a lot just from my fellow presenters about science communication and so thanks for sharing your different styles of presentation. That's great. Absolutely, absolutely. I've commented a number of times about the ways in which TED talks have transformed our process of selecting speakers because many of you have done TED or TED like talks. I did say to Jonathan you wrecked it for all future philosophers because some of you may know that philosophers haven't always been among the most engaging presenters at the Nobel conference there. You heard me say that. And he has now wrecked it for future philosophers. The bar has been set differently. But that's absolutely true. So thank you. Thank you for that. Interesting. We often try to make there be at least some kind of a thread connecting a particular conference to the next conference. And interestingly that was one of the reasons that we chose to end our conference with someone who does research on the fruit fly who has done research on circadian rhythms because next year's conference, and I have to say I came up with this title. I'm very proud of it. Sleep Unraveled. All you Shakespeare scholars in the room will get the joke. So and just a nod to what people were saying about the diversity, the breadth of disciplines that will be represented here. We have psychologists. We have neuroscientists. We have cultural historians. And we have someone with degrees in performance art and theology who describes herself as the NAP Bishop and has founded the NAP Ministry. So it is gonna be a conference that is gonna transform and she has a very serious social justice agenda connected with that. It's gonna blow your minds and you're going to realize that you all deserve nine hours a night. So that happens next year, October one and two. Please mark your calendars now. It's gonna be, it's gonna be dynamite. It's gonna be really spectacular. So drive safely home and get a good night's sleep and dream of insects.