 Let me welcome everybody. Welcome to the Future Trends Forum. My name is Brian Alexander. I'm the forum's creator I'm your host. I'm your catherter for the next hour of conversation. I'm delighted to see all of you here today I'm really looking forward to our talk We have been covering questions of equity and race and racism in higher education Very intensely for the past year and a half. We've had session after session with great experts thinking about what can higher education do better? To address questions of racial inequality and to improve equity in throughout higher education I am just absolutely delighted and I consider myself very fortunate to be able to invite Tia McNair. Dr. Tia McNair has She does two great great projects for the aacnu the american association of colleges and universities She runs their office of diversity equity and student success And she's the director. They have director for the truth racial healing and transformation of campus centers at aacnu This means she gets to work with hundreds and hundreds of colleges and universities Which means she is a dynamo and an expert in this field So without any further ado, let me welcome dr. Tia McNair Brian, thank you so much for that kind introduction and just so you know, I don't consider myself a dynamo I'm a learner just like everyone else. I continue to learn and grow So I just want to make sure that everyone knows that I don't have all the answers But thank you, Brian. You're such a guy My pleasure. My pleasure. I'm just describing what I see And I'm so grateful you can come through No problem I have had kinds of ways that I like to ask people to Introduce Where are you even working on for the next next One of the Projects are really taking a place with your brain Yes, I just want to make sure can you hear me clearly because you were fading a little out and in out on me So I just want to assure you I can hear you but I'm getting a little Yes, I am too. So uh, is that your uh, uh, your headphone? Um, I'm actually in let me see Can you hear me better now? Oh, that's perfect. Would you okay? I don't know. I just moved it a little bit. So let's just go with that. Well, let's keep good Okay, so lots of things going on at a cnu and within the realm of my work and what I'd lead there We're getting ready for our Two institutes one on high impact practices and student success where we're hosting more than 60 institutions Virtually, and we're also getting ready for our truth racial healing and transformation institute Which we're where we're hosting over 70 Plus institutions there as well I'm actually working on the second edition of our book becoming a student ready college, which will be out in 2022 We're developing some resources for institutions to really focus on racial healing and transformation That work will hopefully start this summer. Um working on guided pathways For assuring students are learning and really focusing on that particular work with 20 community colleges I can go on and on it's been a little busy But that's good. We're working with campuses on equity Our book from equity talk to equity walk as many of you probably know is released in 2020 with my colleagues Estella benson moan and lindsay malkin for q and that Doing a lot of having lots of conversations with institutions on that work Well, that's fantastic I'm sorry I I have a whole bunch of questions for you and More important is that people And They Oh, hello assessment people One question to ask you We're we're coming out the other The So we've learned a lot obviously um, and then there's so much more for us to focus in on so with talking specifically about racial equity One of the things that we learned from our own survey that we did In 2020 with presidents at colleges and universities that are part of ac and use president's trust Is that 80 of them said that they really needed to deal with Structural racism within their institutions and they really needed to focus on the interrogation of their policies and their procedures And need to look at curriculum to think about hiring Resources across the board, especially when we're talking about racial equity and they knew that student activism was going to increase Not whether students were on campus virtually However, they're they're desired for our institutions to focus more clearly and intentionally on dei efforts That was going to be a priority for them So they needed not only just to release those statements and many institutions did that and i'm not diminishing The impact of those statements But I think it's important for us to learn that the statements are a step in a process They are not the change that we need They are an articulation of what we aspire to do in higher education But the change comes from very intentional and focused work, especially to understanding how we identify Racialized practices at our institutions. And how do we actually address them? How do we actually build capacity? For actually doing this particular work focused on racism in higher education And I think sometimes the aspirational goals become You know A focus point, but the process piece isn't there and I say that all the time in my work Is that we have to really focus on building the capacity and the process for actually achieving those goals I just I wanted to ask one more Are you getting the same echo right now? If you just let me know in the chat I'm not hearing it now. It may be if this is coming from From ti's side hang on Dr. McNair, can you still hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah, and is the echo still there? No, I think whatever you did was perfect I took out this here earphone. So and I don't know if my other ones are going to work So I'm just going to do it off the computer screen if that's okay. You sound great I think what was happening was the the computer was echoing the Your headphones. Okay. That's perfect. Thank you so much You're welcome. This demonstrates an awful lot of flexibility that you have as necessary for position No problem. Let me just ask a really quick question and then and then people are going to have have their own questions as well one of them is Uh How can we best develop the uh capacity to do this kind of work? Um, you know, so many campuses in in higher red have been clobbered financially by the past year either by You know financial losses from residents life to dropping enrollment And they've had had to spend so much more money on so many other things including, you know, Expanding mental health services and PPE and so on. Uh, how can we best Generate that kind of capacity Well, just like you just said brine you listed a lot of things that are critical and they are essential for the functioning of higher education I feel the same way about addressing equity In higher education if we don't do this work Then we are really not being responsive to our diversity of our students. We're not being responsive to what we know is coming Um, all you have to look is a diversity of the student population that's in the k-12 pipeline I mean all you have to do is think okay. Well, if we're educating tomorrow's students and we're really focusing on Providing and developing an educational environment that is going to support their success My question just as you say as you talk about financial aid or you're talking about supports or anything like that How can we not address issues of equity? I mean, we know that inequities exist at our institutions. We know that there are inequities and student outcomes The research has shown that we know that we're not serving all of our students in the same way That is going to have them provide them a foundation For you know for success and work life and as we say at asing you productive citizenship So I really don't see it as an option. I mean, I see the work on equity Is just as important and fundamental to every aspect of institutional functioning and it needs to be inherent across the board So I don't the capacity piece just like we identify resources that are supposed to be part of that Those particular networks that we see as essential This work is essential too. So how do we do that? We really need to make sure That we are embedding and threading the work of equity across all of our systems and our structures and our policies that we are preparing people To engage in that equity-minded inquiry that is necessary for success And we shouldn't make assumptions that everyone has that knowledge and that background So we we really need to think about professional development support. What does that mean? excellent Thank you Friends, let me just get out of the way and make space for you because the forum is here for you I'm not the one who interviews our grant our wonderful guest. It is all of you We want to hear your questions and your thoughts and I can't even finish that prompt without people already putting in some questions and thoughts so here's one from Paul Haley coming from steven f. Austin state and And paul says we just hired a black provost and i'm meeting him right after this forum How can I help him dismantle racist structures and attitudes on this campus? So i'm going to rephrase that question and i'm going to say how can we help Dismantle racist structures and attitudes on this campus. It is not his responsibility As the black provost or as the provost on your campus to actually do that work He does have a responsibility just like it comes with all aspects of responsibilities for the provost In teaching and learning and being the academic leader at the institution But it shouldn't be something that is just okay now all of a sudden we have a leader of color on our campus We really want to focus on these policies Let's put some truth telling into this conversation That we should have been doing that work before if we are really Trying to address The values and goals of higher education and this ability to engage across differences and to Really understand the diversity of who we are as a country to prepare for our students for service to our democracy It shouldn't be something that is just oh now someone of color is there we need to address this That is not their sole responsibility is not your sole responsibility is a shared responsibility And everybody plays a role in that And I think that it's important that when you meet with him Or right. I think you said it wasn't him. I'm not sure so I don't want to make an assumption when you meet with this new leader At your campus. I think the approach should be how can I how can we help help if the institution achieve its goals for equity? What is it that we can do to help support those efforts to identify racialized practices to identify inequities? Whether that's through sexism whether that's the disability. I mean just across the board socio-economic status We have these goals, but we're not meeting them But so how can we help you because we all believe in this that this is a shared value and shared goals for us Think that's a fantastic Paul, thank you for that great question. Yeah, thank you a great question Again if if you're new to the forum, this is a great example of a classic question And there's like six questions just appeared. So And here's one from our long time friend David hul at national university and david asks I'm currently working to start the difficult conversations multi-racials and work with faculty and staff at my current institution We're receiving resistance from executive administration suggestions So, I mean So that's just we're going to be honest and we're going to be real about this Is not everyone's at the same place at the same time and we've got to identify Why they are resistant? What is the reason? What are the reasons? How are we actually going to address them? How do we build those relationships? And we talk a lot about this in our trht work. How do we build that it's racial healing and relationship building? It's not just understanding issues of racism and transforming the institution But it's about having that deep listening that understanding each other It's one of the reasons why we start our work on trht a foundational component Is the work that gail christopher and her many of her other colleagues on racial that are racial equity practitioners across You know season equity practitioners and facilitators Where they really focus on racial healing circles that ability to connect across our common humanity The ability to engage in deep listening and reflection with one another prior to engaging in this work So we can focus on what is it that connects us? What's our purpose? What's our shared ideas? Versus just jumping right into the work. So I want to know from your question that you just raised What are the the challenges that they're seeing? What are the reasons why they're they they feel like this is resistance? especially given the multitude the mac the All the evidence that we have that we're in a place in this country where we don't address issues of racism And racial inequities. We are not going to achieve our larger Or achieve our larger democratic values and purpose that we see are important to who we are As you know, the united states of america. So I think it's important for us to understand the why When it comes to resistance, I think it's important for us to engage in deep listening I think it's important for us not to judge people But to actually say, okay, what's the why are we not doing this because let's look at our values as an institution Let's look at our purpose You know, most higher education institutions and those dei statements and then those mission statements talk about valuing You know intellectual differences and and and different ideas and concepts So How do we do that in a way that is true to that? But also understanding the reality of the historical social political constructs of racism within this country and how it influences who we are That is a fantastic answer. I love the connection made to democratic The democratic goals of education, which I know is a major aac and u goal Dave, thank you for that question That's a great question And related we have a question That comes up at a kind of a different level below the total level of senior administration Kate Montgomery at smu has a question about certification oops Her question is In my role as program director of an mls program. We serve university administrators and offer dei and social justice programming Have you seen an increase in dei certificates degrees or coursework? so i've seen and a heightened interest from consultants from dei You know external for-profit areas that are saying, you know, we need to certify We need to actually engage in this particular work I've definitely seen a focus from higher education institutions Just internally saying that dei is an institutional priority And we need to build the structures and capacities to do this work in a scene use october 2020 member survey the top Item on the membership survey that institution said was there going to be their focus and what they need support in dei efforts That was what 57 percent of the over 700 respondents said that that was what was important to them Moving forward with their work. So yes, I have seen an increase in that. I have seen an increase in certificates I'm just making sure that people understand the quality Of those certificates and those badges and making sure that it's not just A checkbox because the work Requires so it's a deeper level of understanding Cultural and mindsets and and understanding higher education So if you're going to go with a private company that's going to be leading that particular work Make sure they understand The culture of higher education And the way that we function and the way we work because something that in business may not work the same in higher education Definitely A great question and a fantastic answer to you. Thank you Um, we uh related on that institutional level. We have a question from uh, Ben Rifkin Hofstra on Long Island And ben asks, how is AEC and you working with directors of graduate programs across the country to enhance educational opportunities Available for the future professoria to teach diverse students So AEC and you just so you know, we Focus on quality and undergraduate education. It doesn't mean that we haven't had programs in the past That focus on graduate education or we don't collaborate on that We work a lot with teacher education programs obviously in the undergraduate Area and with graduate programs We do this through our sponsored projects with you know with the federal government Through our work with institutions that bring together like i'm working with one institution right now That it's not just the undergraduate faculty that i'm working with as the graduate faculty And we have these conversations about teaching and learning and quality So we have those types of collaborations. We work with Different associations different disciplinary, you know, discipline areas So I mean just across the board this this conversations don't change as much As you're thinking when it comes to what we need to do for quality teaching and learning the same across the board The disciplinary changes. Yeah, the disciplinary areas change obviously and that really hits both undergrad and grad programs Mm-hmm Thank you. Thank you We had a follow-up to Kate Montgomery's question and this comes from the awesome rhea anderson Founding CEO of a course tune and previous guest in the program and rhea asks Have you seen any organization publish a list of skills attitudes or competencies around dei? That can be incorporated into curriculum design Yeah, I mean, I think they're like I said there are lots of um Organizations that are thinking about this work. I mean, I don't want to name anyone in particular But I've seen things that come out on social media. I've seen things that are that We get feeds about that are that are being promoted. So yes, I think that there are some people that do that we actually Because through our own rubrics the valid assessment of learning and undergraduate education our rubrics We look at intercultural knowledge. We look at what we want students to actually do We have specific performance descriptors that we work with campuses to help them institutions design assignments and educational opportunities for students to develop their proficiencies and key areas and we articulate that so if you're interested in learning what we are saying about Those skill sets and competencies. Please go look at our value rubrics That's the valid assessment of learning and undergraduate education rubrics and they're available on our website And we do that for global learning for intercultural knowledge across the board. So those are our guidelines So i'm going to just draw you back to them Would that be a acu.org slash value? Yes, it is You're on top of it Brian Well, it's just i'm glad that you had that there. I'll just quickly share this link with uh, everybody Flash it on the screen there so you can see it Maria, thank you for that question and Dr. Maria. I'm so glad to see that there's a lot of work going along with that and kate I hope that that adds even more to your excellent line of inquiry Please and Brian you call me tf. We've known each I'm a formal person at times it goes over there um the We've been talking about that at the kind of at the larger level of institutions We talk about senior leadership and we've been talking about programs Let's focus in a bit more on classrooms and instructors So we have a bunch of questions along those lines Eric's at york college of pennsylvania. Hello, eric He asks can you give examples of some of the racial inequities that negatively affect faculty of color? Yeah, so They're There's so many that we can start with so if you I hope that you had the opportunity to look at the series that We have that inside higher ed did on faculty of color They did it over the course of last year. Can I plug another group? Is it okay to say inside higher ed? I can see that right inside higher ed and they talked about the experiences of faculty of color in particularly black faculty At higher education institutions and they identified series of things. I mean, there's so many Things when it comes to tenure and promotion the evaluation you can look at what's happening now at UNC for example, I mean, unfortunately, there are too many examples To give but I do think that there are inequities when it comes to tenure and promotion I think there's there are inequities when it comes to Um Just the engagement what's needed Um, and what's required from you versus what's not I mean Gosh, we can have a whole conversation about this. Um, the racial inequities when it comes just to representation that When we're talking about reflection of the current student population, there's that representation when it comes to the hiring process and racial inequities when it comes to that And the bias inherent in that particular process. I mean we could probably go on and on unfortunately Unfortunately, that's a very good answer for an unfortunately very good question Eric. Um, thank you And if this is something that you should Follow up with another session on the forum. Let me know. I'd be happy to especially bring find some A great guest or several guests on that Still on the on the issue of the classroom level an instructional level We have a question from Tom hams In the houston area who says if the students set the tone for their education And we can make sure all students all voices are heard. Can we hope the diverse student population can drive equity? So the students are driving equity with many of the campuses that i'm working with they are actually demanding Um more culturally responsive learning environments. They're demanding Intentionality and accountability for dei efforts. I mean Many of the institutions that I work with their student representation their student efforts That are saying, you know what we no longer will be at an institution that doesn't understand the diversity of our identities That isn't it's not responsive to that. So I do agree With that question. I do think it's important for students to be engaged in the process And I think that in many places students are driving and they are forced for accountability for the in the change effort Well, that's good to know and uh tom. I really appreciate the way you phrase that in terms of student voices are heard Um as well, uh, that's really important. And I think that's crucial liberal education as you see and you understand Yes, definitely. We consider that a core component. I mean in our work on truth resolution transformation One of the key elements is a student engagement Our goal is to prepare the next generation of leaders to build just and equitable communities Well, you can't do that without them engaged in the work. I mean, this is about them for them And we want to make sure that they are deeply engaged in what it means for them to be educated to do this work Thank you. Thank you Also along the classroom lines. We have diana mon from luxu state Who has this really good question? There is a lot of material their efforts to move higher education towards equity at the institutional level Is there work to address equity or inclusion in the classroom more specifically? Yes, so there's a plan We have so much work about how to actually do this In the classroom and how you design high impact practices How you are more transparent with students How you are even using data on direct assessment of student learning to create more culturally responsive learning environments And I think it's important for us and the research is out there There are lots of things that just like we do our work in our discipline disciplinary areas We have to really focus in on dei in it of itself has A ton of research scholars practitioners that are deeply engaged in this. So yes, the work in the classroom is It's there. I just gave you a couple examples right there. Very good. Thank you for the question Uh, and we have a couple more that really follow up along these lines Sarah sangrigorio at montclair state Uh, let me bring this up. I'm part of educational equity efforts literature states that practitioner reflection integrals equity in the classroom My fact will be one easy button without reflection I start Well first letting them know over and over again my communications professor always taught me when I was an undergrad redundancy is the key to retention So you need to keep telling them there's no easy button for this work Just like there's no easy button for anything that is of value and importance I mean, you can't just flip a switch and do this and do this work or be fully prepared for this And we are in a process. I mean, that's why we focus on the process We have equity goals at many institutions and equity aspirations as I said in those statements What's the process that we need to put in place and actually to get there? How do we actually interrogate our systems and our structures in a way that we can identify inequities and actually address them Most institutions have not spent the time focused on the process piece. I say this over and over again in my presentations we have not really been successful In helping we we can look at institutional data. We can show equity gaps We and again, I want you to continue to do that and it's important to disaggregate data But once those equity gaps are identified and once we've actually said, okay, this is what what's the process for actually figuring out What contributes to those equity gaps? How do we actually address it? How do we actually help remediate behaviors that that are contributing to those equity gaps? Those are the questions that we need to be asking for change and that is not a flip of the switch and if the more that we can start and continue to articulate that With educators at our institutions and within our communities and with our students I think we can build those collaborations that can lead to change Excellent And again another great question a great answer friends if you're new to the forum This is how this can work and you can also join us on stage Just click the raise hand button and I promise t and i will be very very nice to you Yes, my cats have been Unhappy they haven't appeared on camera this time, so they might be grumpy, but other than that humans will be good Well, i'm glad that because i'm not using my my air pods don't work with us that my mastiff and my golden retriever haven't started working yet That's always a delighted video conferencing. I think exactly you got a quick comment from um professor riftkin Uh, he mentions comment. I think faculty have to protect minority voices in the classroom that can be drowned out by majority voices Yeah, I think so too. I mean, I think we have to protect all voices that May be marginalized or may feel marginalized within our courses and within our classes I think it's important for us to really create an environment where diversity of ideas in a way that promotes civility in those discussions and and Like I said deep listening and empathy I think this we really need to make sure that our environments are like that and it's up to us To learn and build those facilitation skills so that when we do have those conversations that may lead to that marginalization That we can address it now. I'm not naive. Let's be real about this It's not going to always be the case where everybody's going to have that feel good Environment in the classroom because we're dealing with unscripted problems. We're dealing with the challenges of that are facing us as you know, not only as an institution, but as a you know, as a world as a society And those are complex and not everyone's going to agree but if we set an environment and create an environment where We can have a civil exchange of ideas with integrity and reflection and honesty In a way that doesn't create a place where hateful speech Or alienation drives Then I think that we can do it, but that takes practice too I mean, I'm really focusing on my work. Um as a practitioner You know from a growth mindset. I'm still learning. I still unfortunately say things that are not always appropriate I mean, let's just be honest with us and I'm still learning. Okay. How could I best Facilitated this how could I have reflected on this that reflection is important for all of us to do And to continue to learn and we may not always get it right But we're engaging in the work And we're not sitting on the sidelines or going to say, well, I'm just not going to do it at all Because we know the work is so important, Brian And and we talked about this before when we've worked together and collaborated together And I think that it's in our you know another session that we did and I think it's important for us to continue to be um engaged and not Sidelined because we worry about making a mistake That's tough I mean academics we we we punish failure pretty ruthlessly and um, yeah, we also don't like embarrassed Yes, we do and and I know that from the faculty that I've worked with Over the year many many years is that we are in a gotcha environment I mean so many times that if I say something wrong or reason wrong I mean is this going to cause me my career is this going to cause my profession And I think that it's always being constantly aware of Where am I coming from in this place? Am I Saying this with hateful speech. Am I being reflective on this? I mean We we have to think about intent and we have to think about Who we are as educators and we also have to Continue to grow and thrive um In an environment that sometimes may not create that for us That's true. Definitely true about the gotcha moment. Yeah Well, I'm just glad that all of you here are participating in this conversation Have the courage to come out and speak and I'm happy to support all of you And in fact, we just got just got a private chat from one person who said It's important to have the courage to make mistakes and this anti-racist work and person wrote that to me as a white man I'm trying to learn from mistakes Exactly exactly agreed Completely now we've gone from the top of the institution or the the big scale Into the educational mission of the talking about classes And then there have been a bunch of questions, which uh, which take us in other directions still and the first to lead us off Michael Fried that uh, ethical SNR Asked so much attention and we weren't least focused on classroom practices Are there any user efforts focused on changing degree or program and or degree structures to improve equitable outcomes? so I This is so it's such an important question I was talking to a chancellor of an institution literally this morning and I told her I said I'm going to share what you were sharing me She is really thinking about reimagining and revitalizing Higher education in a way that is going to um think about time to degree think about the work of Um how to educate the students that are coming in she she gave me this great example Especially when we're thinking about equity and I'm not just talking about racial equity I'm thinking about the diversity of our students. She said we have to think about our students our young students Um, you know the teenagers are 13. I have a 13 year old and they're in there They're doing all this gaming and they're they're learning in different ways We're asking them to be entrepreneurs to have an entrepreneurship mindset We're asking them to really focus, you know an entrepreneurial mindset We're asking them to focus on these areas and then we're asking them to go sit in front of You know someone in a zoom who can't who's still trying to figure out how to share their screen They're saying so how are we thinking about equity In educating the next generation of leaders and the next generation of students in a way that is going to be reflective of their lived experiences that's going to be reflective of their cultural diversity That is going to be thinking about the way that students learn And I think that that that's so true. I mean we have to revitalize we have to reimagine and I just I can't share exactly what we talked about but she's as a chancellor of a system In our conversation. She's really thinking about What the future of higher education looks like for The 13 14 15 year olds that are coming through our apartment, but then also for adult learners too who are trying to refresh and and You know their skill set so I I do think that that's a great question and we do need to think about What it is that we need to be doing For the initiatives and I can just say hopefully she'll be announcing initiative. She's doing so there are many Plays that are coming. Yes. Let us know. I'll be glad to share Yes, just quickly adding on to the thing you just said just a minute ago We have a question from abby johnson at the Antioch university And she asks do you have any advice for folks in the k-12 an apartment? Funding up against superintendents principles, etc. That kind of echoes an earlier question about the administration yeah, so There probably this is this could be again and brian a topic in and of itself Yeah, um, I do think that the partnerships matter. I think that in our book becoming a student ready to college We talk about the ecosystem of education and we are part of that ecosystem is not just higher education It's not just k-12. It's not just our community partners. I mean, it's all of us playing a role in this and I think Just like we need to the previous question about Institutional leaders in higher education who may not be ready to address anti-racism work We're I mean the reality is there's some of those leaders are superintendents in different areas in k-12 too How do we actually Help bridge those divides. How do we build those relationships? To actually help them understand look at the diversity of our student population Look at some of the challenges the deep challenges. We're facing as a country. Let's look at what it means to be successful not only in higher education or education in general but also as people And as a country as citizens as part of this community And I think it's important for us to address that and I don't the same strategies that I talked about earlier I think are the same strategies for k-12, but I also think that there's a I believe there's a heightened sense of urgency in k-12 Yeah, um because you're you're right now I mean and they're coming to us in higher education, but there's a heightened urgency to really address racial equity racial healing transformation To create those culturally responsive learning environments. I mean we really have to think about that We do and and coming off of that urgency Danette long at northern state Has a really good topical question. How does all this work interact with the growing political attack across the nation on teaching critical race theory? So this is we were talking about this. I mean just last week at acnu and this and also this weekend too So I think that the people who are attacking critical race theory are not understanding the The benefit of having The theorists and the scholars and the practitioners who are doing this work to help us understand The impact and influence of race and racism on our systems and our structures critical race theory is just acknowledging the truth about How race has had an impact and influences our decision making and I think that we're not really How to say this because I never really the reality is They're not understanding it and there's challenges coming to it because they don't want to They want to put up against this concept that that we do have a racial history in this country that we do have Systems and structures that are inherently that are based on a false belief of a hierarchy of human value And one of this hierarchy of human values based on race And I think that those attacks Are because there are some people because they want to believe this that we are in a country or we are in a systems and structures that Really can provide equal opportunity to everyone And on an even playing field. Well, those of us who understand critical race theory And those of us who are in dei work know that that concept is inherently false There's no such thing as an equal opportunity In a system that has privilege and biases and has a hierarchy of human value based on Characteristics on based on demographics and that's And I mean, I'm fortunate. I don't even know how to explain anymore Is that you're if you're not understanding that then you're really not understanding The history of race and racism within this country That's a very very clear direct answer Danette, thank you for the for that question. If you'd like to say more Please please join in We have a few more questions that circle around this question of of the immediate politics and And teaching and learning from your college eric smith follows up I'm looking at the aac new value metrics academics in my field rhetoric and compensation Let's say that those are white values and therefore reflect white supremacy. What are your thoughts on that? So I'm just going to say it across the board. I think many of our Theories and our practices within higher education are Have been designed Based on a theory of what I mean the principle of whiteness. I mean it has been used as a normalized frame All you have to do is look at who's actually designed Thinking about student development theory thinking about assessment strategies think about this. Yes We we utilize our funds of knowledge We utilize our sense making from our own lived experiences to influence the design of our educational environments So I would say That there is a hierarchy I'm sure this is not a surprise to you within higher education Just like there is within every single system and we've got to call it out for what it is So I I can't tell you that that's not the case. Have we talked about that at aac new? Yes Have we talked about how hierarchy is embedded so deeply within everything we do within higher education and whiteness how how whiteness the principle whiteness the idea whiteness has been the normalized frame For measuring success and excellence Just because that has been what has been in focus of the majority It is how we've been trained. It's how we've engaged in our work and our research So I'm not saying that that's not true. And do we have continued work to do? Yes, and that's one of the reasons why we're engaging in the truth racial healing and transformation Work that we're doing at acu because we do have to look at everything across the board. Is it perfect? No Do we call it out? Yes Do we have a lot of work to do? Definitely Thank you That's a great answer. That's a great answer and Eric, thank you for thank you for raising that. I really appreciate that Uh, we have a question from Bucknell University Over from leslie harris and we put this up on the stage so everyone can see it How do you move dei initiatives beyond just numbers of students or faculty or underrepresented groups? What are helpful goals for institution? Why dei initiatives at a university? Yeah, great set up in a minute longer because it's a long one Yeah, sure. So thanks leslie for this question. Um, it's what we've been talking about here It's about understanding the institution's narrative on race understanding the relationships that need to be built How to actually deal with the racial trauma? Um, actually when you look at the equity and outcomes when you're looking at the institutional data asking the questions about why these inequities exist Examining the process through which the that can the processes to which, um Students participate in our educational environment so that you can figure out why those outcomes are not equitable one of the things that we say in our book, um, that estella and lindsay and i say Is that when it's equity minded sense making goes beyond just noticing equity gaps and looking at institutional data when we see equity gaps That's actually When we need to figure out, okay, something that we've designed At our institution obviously isn't working in the way that we intended for For all of our students for our students who are Marginalized for our students who are racially minoritized So it's our responsibility to figure out why that is And that is why the process piece for doing this interrogation engaging in this equity minded inquiry That process is so important That's what I was saying at the very beginning. We often skipped over we look at the data and then we Wanted to jump quickly to an intervention design to help address this but without understanding the reason why And and actually many institutions don't have a way of identifying racialized practices that contribute to those inequitable outcomes We need to do a better job at that A lot of conversation a lot of really brave speaking and listening Thank you Followed up really quickly. She had a comment. We have daily radio ads claiming that critical race theory has been to So division among the races and is harming our children. This is also true in montana. Uh, she's speaking from south dakota Yeah And it's not about division. It's about truth telling. I mean, I know and I I'm not smiling or or signing because of that. I'm just like We have to tell the truth about our narrative on race and racism and how it influences Who we are as people our experiences and our realities and Being able to be honest about the impact of race On our students and within our communities Is not sewing division It's being honest that we are not in an equal society I mean, I don't know how many times that That I can say that or how many times my other colleagues can say that this concept of equality Still privileges those that are in the majority That's just the reality of it Thank you um And uh, didn't I thank you for giving us that that glimpse of uh of your life Friends, we have six minutes left. Which is which is insane because we just started it feels like Tia when I said dynamo I meant that you are dynamo. We have a another question that comes, um Um, this is from uh, Heather Pleasants at UT Austin and she asks What models exist for successful collaborations between academic programs and those working within the co-curriculum? student affairs student development I would I would also think residents life myself Yeah, so if you go on acu's website, we feature collaborations in Promising models emerging models every month in our acu news We included some of them in our book equity talk to equity walk and becoming a student ready college Those collaborations and what it means to not just put people on a committee But actually delve into Accountability and intentionality across the different divisions at an institution We've been talking about this for years at acu and I know many other intermediary organizations that I work with it Work with here in dc and across the country have also been doing that We know that that's a critical part. There's collaborations across divisions critical to the piece So I invite you to look at some of the Institutions we've highlighted in our book some of the institutions we've highlighted in our member newsletter Which is available for free at acu.org. Oh great. Great. Thank you. Thank you We have a follow-up comment Kind of reflecting on all of this from from abby johnson Who says I find that gen z really like to kumbaya or talk about seeing people as human versus Seeing and acknowledging differences. It makes it difficult to teach when they feed me. I don't see color Well, so we talk about that as an obstacle to racial equity in our book When people say that they don't see color, then you're not seeing me Because so for example, you see me if you if you're telling me right now, brian that I don't see color I'm like, well, then you're not acknowledging my identity. You're not acknowledging me as a black woman That's how I identify and when we say we don't see color. That's actually us We're not being race conscious And many times I hear that from and we talk about this in the book Estella, lindsay all of us we hear this. Well, I teach content. I don't really teach I don't really think about race and racism within my courses. Well, if you're doing that then You're not understanding The experiences of our students and how that has an influence on how they do engage in our classrooms So to say I don't see color is actually you saying you don't see me Hmm That's amazing state. That's a clarifying statement right there um Tia, this is the future transform and and among other things We're trying to look harder at the present to see what it tells us about the future of higher ed And I wanted to ask a question myself What does it look like say five years out 10 years out if higher ed commits to doing all this work How does higher ed look different? Do we have a different looking professoriate? Is our research output change? But what does what is the future campus? After a lot of sustained dei work look like So i'm gonna just turn it back on you bram one of the first questions we ask at our trhc institute any institution Let us say we're hosting 70 plus this year later this later this month actually One of the very first questions we asked which was driven by gale christopher I said the visionary and architect of trht Is for you to imagine we have every institution every person who tends to say what will your community Look like feel like and be like when there's no longer a false belief in a hierarchy of human value So i'm going to turn it back in so if you had to think for every single person who's on here What because it's going to mean different things for different people So what would your community your institution? Your engagement with what would it look like feel like and be like when there's no longer a false belief in a hierarchy of human value And that hierarchy of human value can be Multiple identities single identity or whatever you're saying So i'm going to turn that back on you because we asked that at the very beginning and I can tell you some institutions struggle with that They're like we can't imagine it We don't know what that looks like but others are saying you know what we are going to be aspirational on this goal It may not be within our time at the institution or our work Or we're going to actually set that vision statement that that we are going to create or attempt to create An institution where there's no longer a false belief in a hierarchy of human value Well, I just tweeted that question out because I want to see what people say in response And I guess two two group responses are going to be personally and that I would love to hear from everybody else And one is a demographic representation answer that the staff the professor yet And and to and as well the student body, although that's less of a change Look more like the united states That is you know say we have roughly 13 percent of the professor yet and and staff are black Roughly 25 percent depending on our hispanic Roughly five percent our asian and so on Rough I mean it depends on the year. It depends on some definitions of data Um, and so that's for me. That's one quick answer and the second is curricular and I don't have a good answer for that Because I'm I'm I'm still struggling with the concept of decolonizing the curriculum. I'm not sure what it looks like on the other side But I would have met so this is just a case holder for saying their curriculum would look different I'm still trying to figure out what that would look like. Exactly. Exactly. I would I would love to hear from from everybody else what their future looks like And if you want to add a question or a call and people just talk to the whole bunch of Questions, but these are more these are advice For everybody else. I want to share these before we go because we're just out of time. Ah, this is I'm really interested if you're in a state where dei is under attack Consider focusing on the key competencies that improve dei Rather directly act dei e.g perspective taking And that's one of the reasons why I shared the rubrics and we were talking about critical thinking ethical reasoning problem solving those things for us Where they are tied to dei work, but it's not yet I definitely get that Tia This is the end of the hour We have we have passionately and deeply dived into this subject and there's still so much more to say it's so much more to Do particular Let me let me ask you one question closing How can people keep up with you and your work? What's the best way to follow up with you? Well, definitely. I mean I I work for the association of american colleges universities It's an excellent organization that really focuses on quality and equity as a foundations for excellence And I think that it's important for us to continue our partnership So please engage with our work at acu. That's where you can find out what i'm doing and the projects that i'm leading And I hope that you continue to do so Thank you, and thank you so much for this hour of Conversation and thought I just admire so much information so much perspective that you bring to bear This has been terrific. Thank you very much You're welcome, brian. Take care everyone now. Don't go everybody because we still have just a few A few more things that we want to share really quickly One is looking ahead for the next few weeks again. We've got a whole series of sessions coming up including on teaching online an improving education Sparky emerging attack conversations mentoring and professional development if you want to learn more about that just go to forum That future of education dot us And if you want to keep talking about these issues, how do you handle dei when dei is under attack? How do you do this kind of work? How do you do the difficult listening? How do you learn about all this material? We have a conversation still going just head to on twitter. Just use the hashtag Or head to my blog brian alexander.org If you'd like to dive back into our previous sessions where we've been exploring all kinds of questions about racial equity Just go to tiny url.com slash ftf archive. Be sure to subscribe. We have a whole series of sessions there And above all, thank you all so much for your questions and thoughts I really appreciate that you were able to share so much today. Thank you. Keep doing this really good work Also, stay safe. Take care. We'll see you online Bye. Bye