 Good afternoon everyone and Welcome to this session on leveraging the digital OH for innovative and impactful video formats Thanks to all the panelists for having agreed to be on this panel Let me start this session by Asking Asking Nabindu Alok and Dheeraj Because they happen to be on the supply side of DOH on You know, what is what is really the difference between a digital OH Versus the traditional OH and what are the kind of different formats that are currently available in India? Okay, so before we talk about what is different I think we need to talk about what is common between OH and programmatic DOH So I think common is OH and programmatic DOH itself in a media mix become a Complementary to other medium which are available in the medium Let's say on a social or whatever lecture or lecture TV or the whatever the other mediums are available in the media mix OH and DOH are Compliment we have seen where results are like, you know replicating in a multi multi-fold or lecture on a social whenever a Brand is activating OH or let's say DOH. They have seen good results within that media mix I think this is a these are commonality in terms of what is the difference between OH and DOH is it's just a creative. What is the asset? On OH you can only showcase static images I think which over the period of time become dead on the other hand side Let's say for the digital screen if you can keep on rotating that creative which keep on which can become engaging as well that recently like in the previous session like Tata Marketing lead said, you know they have executed one campaign Which was engaging with the social users and the content was showcased on digital screen I think with the DOH there are a lot of possibilities are around the scope of work is tremendous Like that's the opportunity for the entire industry on everyone So as each I've been a part of the industry since what last 17 years or so and When I started we were completely a traditional out-of-home industry and I'll be very honest when we talk about OH as a as a synonym So 80% of normal people really don't know about OH also. They're still related with the outdoor OH takes slang. I'm a poor industry could be a or a DOH we are there then PD OH will come soon But then when when we are taking this shift from outdoor to PD you to DOH to PD OH Things have actually changed dramatically last three to four years. So Dira is representing lemma and we have Add-on more we have more media owners which are completely focused on the DOH part The good thing about DOH is that, you know, there is no baggage one has to carry OH we have to carry a lot of baggage We have some Systems of sales which were through agencies through direct lines. The DOH teams today Are very disruptive in nature. They are actually behaving like what startups? behave in any industry so So to say DOH today is the startup baby of our industry Which will actually help disrupt the overall scheme of things and in next three to five years The changes which will be the changes will be far dramatic and drastic in nature Good afternoon So I will not take anybody's site. I have to buy from DOH guys. Also. I have to buy from Selwell, no we meant also so I think I Think DOH has its advantage. There are a lot of brands Which are built we have seen couple of them international example On DOH, there are lots of brands were built on out of home. You know the famous brand we see Apple Worldwide, I don't know how many people you know because we handle in my previous agency Apple as a company Across world they only use static media. They don't use digital digital out of home medium They are different. They want it to be premium and They have done their class and aesthetic and beauty and creative everything they brought together and they use that as a Example across world so That's that. So in my mind now, let me come back to the point Point is in my mind digital out of home is a comparison of Typically a television screen You are watching a movie Versus a 70 mm screen you are watching a movie Okay, so DOH has that advantage and now this creative guys have no question about You know what we can do in television that film and all of that we cannot replicate that here Just imagine Zuzu campaign is playing on your door DOH 100 feet by 200 feet Okay, so it's actually a mobile screen on a straight away DOH interesting So one one question that comes to mind from this is that how is this Different I mean the kind of format that I've seen in India How are these different from what is available in the western countries because I've seen a lot of 3d OH happening there. There's a lot of lot more than just a flat screen, which is a digital screen you know in terms of format so What's what's what's the kind of difference that you've seen India versus West and how do you think? India will go or how soon will India go towards? Towards what is available there in the western world? So it's a very interesting point India today, I think maybe in next three to five years We will be at par with West if not ahead because of the pathological leap that we have taken as an economy also and You know coming at par with with all the economies if you're talking about the anamorphic campaigns that have happened in the west which are you know, we see viral videos of Nike doing something in Japan and They are getting viral here today. We Yesterday only we saw anamorphic campaigns happening in India. So I mean there is no Lag now in terms of time. I mean whatever used to happen abroad is today happening in India We saw a huge drone show by Madison, which was done a couple of years ago and that was in Mumbai The challenge that India today faces is not from the technology perspective. It's more from the regulatory perspective When our governments will embrace DOH in either ways whichever way it's possible creating a whole new time square here creating a whole new Mall square kilometer wherein you can display LED screens or digital screens when the regulatory side is ready The media owners and the technology is always available to assist For us literally from you see from a lemurs angle. So We talk about platforms actually. So we are a SSP platform on the other side of lecture in the western world We have seen they have created a wall garden. So we are the we are the SSP, which is DSP agnostic We give a fair opportunity for an advertiser to get a maximum delivery out of that entire campaign And on the other side publisher get a maximum value of that campaign what they deserve So on the other hand sort of Western world what they have, you know, done is they have created an entire wall garden So they have their own supply and they have their own demand platform and transaction is happening between their own platform So I can say that like lemma is setting a benchmark as Alok said like you know in terms of technology or let's say in terms of economy we are already already like, you know chasing them and very soon we are going to surpass them So in terms of technology and everything, you know, we are you know right now in the present We are very soon. We are going to surpass them and ensuring that entire Transaction which is happening on a DOH is very much transparent, you know Everyone who is contributing was a part of that, you know entire transaction is getting a maximum value I think that benchmark lemma is creating an idea which is going to replicate in Western world up as well very soon I think as a format if you ask me if I compare with Times Square If you go to Times Square, you will see also different sizes, you know, it is the wall of a building or a you know vertical, horizontal, so I think format is very in across world Except for the small formats which is Muppies and all they are very similar sizes But India also will have different sizes billboard and that will convert into LED But what I feel is Right now what I see it is not in video format. It is in slideshow format on the street level close environment level it is Video so slideshow format what the limitations Obviously limitation will come when in terms of creating a storyboard or stuff measurement level I am yet to know really what kind of measurement is going to come in the international versus India so and I think India will have a problem of Every city regulatory bodies are different. Okay, what is allowed in Bombay? I think to me will be able to correct it. They may not be allowed in Calcutta or in Delhi So until it comes in, you know full force across because India has its all different five seven eight Regulatory bodies look mentioned. I think that's the challenge which will come But I think we are going through a process of you know So every every I am sure every country has gone through this process. Good party. This is happening very fast It's very very in six months time I'm seeing so many billboards are digital billboards are converting and that's good at least there's a discussion and conference Like this is happening one particularly on the DOH. So I'm sure something best is happening for the industry It's coming to you You are the end client, right? You are the you are the demand side of so Why do you know personally when you look at DOH? Why do you think DOH fits in your media plans? Do you really look at a particular format? Or a particular kind of campaign saying that when I have to do XYZ is when I will Necessarily need to go to a digital out-of-home You know medium or how does it work? So as an advertiser we always face the in-between the supplier and the measurement. So like I'm sitting here today Before coming to the why we choose this digital out-of-home medium or out-of-home medium Let me give the some understanding or some context the category belongs to So we are the home Renovation category home improvement category where the consumer purchase cycle is long and it is a very plant purchase cycle So when you have to chase the consumer who has a long and plant purchase cycle You have to be remain into this consideration set for a longer time and then you have to create impact So for the creating the impact we use this out-of-home medium Now why we go with the digital out-of-home medium? We tried it only the pilot budget has been placed We tried it the ones only and we are still evaluating on this thing This digital out-of-home medium has given us the first is the attention because when you create a life-style creative It is a better medium to give those life-style creative So you get those attention you get those kind of the impact when get the size or the scale of this thing The other thing is what we are getting achieving it through this is still we are evaluating all this thing It's give us the clutter-breaker also because there is a if you do any campaign There is a some kind of the regional or local brands are there They also use the out-of-home medium and they do the proximity marketing this many side they come out But once you use this kind of the site because it has a creative It has a attention impact and clutter-breaker this give the better impact to the brand So for us is give us the what we had tried it is given us these three things attention impact and the Clutter-breaking and then we thought it is giving us the impact to us Yeah as per recent I was going through some recent industry reports right now what they're estimating is the The share of out-of-home or the total advertising fires about six to seven percent and It is related to grow is what they're seeing and digital which is the one who's going to be driving it my question to the supply side would be You think is it a fair share six to seven percent growing to a eight percent nine percent is that a fair share? if yes, why if no why and Then next I would like to ask in the same breath as to what is it that you think is lacking? What what would what should the out-of-home industry do to increase their share? In your advertising budget Yep Yeah, is it a fair share? If I'd say yes, I'd be kicked out of the room So it's not a fair share obviously, but then we have our own set of unique challenges People sitting in the room can't decide if it's fair or not. We are regulated or governed by people who don't know about outdoor So that's why We are a very small pie Because simply we cannot we cannot just tomorrow create 10,000 new sites out of the blue That's not a possibility If there was an opportunity Then yes, there is a huge opportunity if you look at the Infra story of India you just look at the airports the metros which are coming up the highways which are coming up the Out-of-home units on those Infra will be a force multiplier for the industry over So we'll have more units to sell even if you talk today about top 20 cities in In India, I think somewhere down the line 70 to 80 percent of the out-of-home media would be more or less Occupied so so there is a strong demand about the media with digital out-of-home coming into picture We see a lot of new clients getting added to the overall pie and Those new clients are across supply chain. I mean they are from the government side also They are from the retail local retail hyper hyper local retail also. They are from the corporate and also so The six to seven percent even if it moves to around 10 percent in a into three years time I will not be surprised to be honest So I'm also agree with the alok on that incremental brands are coming in who's contributing toward industry, so they are also like, you know, you know participating and you know activating the campaign on TVH medium, you know, and you know some of like, you know, so because that that part of it You know overall that media mix now coming back to the how like is it a fair percentage? So right now let's say one brand is spending 100 rupees and you know six to seven rupees is spend on OH but Mark my word. They're also spending 18 rupees on digital and Programmatic is enjoying that party. What at lemma what we have done is we have opened those gates For media owners and they can participate via programmatic So they can they can actually, you know grab that opportunity which lemma has great in India So let's say you are doing is OH campaign and you're getting five rupees from there and there are possibilities You can grab more five rupees, you know on your digital screen via programmatic routes So let's say when we are talking about OH Majorly it's on roadside or let's say on a high street But what about let's say is it available in inside the malls? No, is it available inside that, you know Restaurants, no, but there are you know embed media which is primarily at TVH So you can actually get that pie from this Salmaning So I can say yes, you know the growth rate will be more than a 10 to 15 percent You know going forward and as I look mentioned there are brands who never ever, you know experience OH, I also agree with a Yatni sexuality. He said he like, you know, they want to like they want to build a you know, you know You know, they want to fill actually at top of the funnel and no one no one can build that brand overnight They have to do that, you know top of the funnel activities which include OH and DOH also contribute So it is going to be it is going to be a like, you know, you can't miss those no DUH So so these days like every audience is let's say traveling via car or let's say, you know, they have no traveling via flights Or let's say they are like, you know inside, you know rest of us having drinks and spending 50 minutes there as well So they are not on social media that time They are not on you know watching YouTube, but they are traveling So they have they get exposed via OH sites. They catch exposed by DUH site within the rest of us So I think as a OH and DUH collectively is going to excel and the programmatic demand Which is already there that ecosystem is already there media media owners can just participate They can just enter that party and take the pie of that, you know that money as well So the 6 to 7% is very relative Because if we talk about China They are advertising out of home advertising price 13% Okay, and if I talk about I'll take example of forget about the OH The brand who has Really taken out juice on the from the out-of-home until they went to eight nine cities which hutch 90% of their spend used to be on out-of-home so You know There was definitely ROI. There was some way of measurement. They were getting value out of it So what has actually done wonder that it was 90% money spent until they went to nine cities But I think it is a lot of answer has to be given by the creative guys because Creative is a typically cut-paste of press Which used to come into outdoor? So while media was expensive, I think creative hasn't done that duties properly and hutch was the very very good example Okay, so in my mind It is the brand managers or The CMO's decision in terms of sorry, sir in terms of Really taking out juice of the of the medium So, you know, it can be 20% it can be 25% but on an average yes 6 to 7 percent Now that digital out-of-home is going to be in play. So there's no excuse television campaign Digital media campaign and out-of-home can campaign can be very similar. Okay So in my mind and when especially it is as large as that Okay, one particular site can also create history in my mind. Okay, if creativity is used You know my ex-boss Piyush Pandey used to talk about, you know, there's a lot of discussion on measurement measurement measurement and there was a six feet by three feet billboard was put for pulse polio, okay, and they just twisted one leg and It won all the words across world you can think of comes to everything and he was Presenting somewhere and he said mr. Brand manager, how will I measure this like this like so I'm saying if creative plays a role Okay, it can go viral and it can really work very very differently. So I'm saying now that digital out-of-home also is in play. So it's really, you know Thinking that only two percent will increase. I am not in agreement. It should be double If I have to give the brand side Answer on this thing. So we don't plan it. I think over the year all the marketing Teams are not planning based on to the budget allocation They are planning more based on to the audience chasing and I think the creative brief is also going what kind of the TG What kind of the audience and what is the brand objective? We are going to achieve it based on that the creative comes and after that we started making the media planning. So maybe the what the Telecom example or the co-example you're giving in that's the brief or that's the brand objective They are chasing it. So it's depend upon the category to category and the brand objective But what is the challenge? We are facing it for the using this digital out-of-home Or the out-of-home as a category because there is not a proper currency or that convincing is not available to our planning rooms So whenever the planner present the plan, they always give the I had never seen any plan Presentation started in the media plan presentation started with the out-of-home or digital out-of-home It always comes at the end. So in terms of the priority No, even the digital has taken up and distal has started joining the same Length and breadth what the TV is planning is there But it's still the out-of-home whenever it get presented to us It's always whoever is the media agencies are there is always present at the end and always and most of the time I feel pity when the meeting was ending then they says it quickly try to run the slide and then they show some of the Innovation and then waste is all this thing. So I think as a medium supplier somebody has to come out with those currencies so that it can become so convincing to the advertiser like us and Then I think there is a lot of potential available in the medium Of these stage I was talking to him and I say is he in my whole career I had never believed this medium but last three four here I started strongly believing this medium when we tried it and during the COVID time and the post COVID and then I had seen the results so as a marketer even this has changed my perspective So far no agency has presented this way, but I think this medium has a potential But the allocation is not is how the important is going to come in so that brings me the point of Measurement that's where I come from So if you look at all your traditional media, okay, we'll talk about TV and I've been personally involved in most of the Measurement currencies that exist in this country. So be it TAM, be it the IRS, NRS for print, be it the RAM or radio I've been a part of most of them. So One of one of my observations has been that when TV happened in India 1992 was I think probably when the cable and satellite has hit us Within a year or two the measurement was in place Okay, the time at time was I think time the people meter system started in 97 98 But the diary measurement was there even before that you look at print you had the IRS NRS running like 30 35 years ago As soon as the radio came into place the FM radio came into place the industry got together and they created RAM I'm not getting into the you know, how good or bad those You know those currencies are today because that's a that's a that can probably take another full day of debate But the point I'm trying to make here is that outdoor being there for so long What has really stopped the outdoor industry from coming together and creating a common currency when all the other traditional mediums Have something about the other for the advertiser to bank on What is really? you know stopped the outdoor medium from coming together and point number two is that now that our digital OH is you know going into a space Like you're saying programmatic the newer technologies coming in do you think this is the right time the right opportunity for the At least the digital guys to come together and say let's come and create a common currency So if you look at If you look at television measurement Bark came in but the main four five Publisher came in in Western 500 crore as a starting point, okay Not that we haven't tried we tried way back in 2006-7 So we tried doing something called Indian outdoor survey your ex company Ashok Das was Given the contract Hansa research was doing it Total top 11 cities the money you were picked up also some 2 crore Ogilvy I was part of Ogilvy. So Ogilvy was one of the contributor What had happened is eventually in two cities means, you know 60% of the budget got vanished Bombay and Pune so Bombay and Pune was done Properly very thoroughly MRFC was stamping it Unilever was part of one of the supporter I think the I think we need to take a clue from and after that nine cities could not be done because he went out of bed budget So the clue we need to take up from the bark studies Publisher needs to come agency obviously now agency and media owner discussion will start But typically agency works on one two percent and this is not end of the day. They are medium. They're just facilitator so If television guys they came in and they invested initial moneys and today they are actually getting the fruits I Think the media owner as a publisher should come in and put in that whatever is the money required because that's the client ask and And that's a serious ask. I think It'll come in and we need to do that and whatever is the money required If that means if they have put in 500 crore at least 10 crore will go definitely in today's date day and time Okay Nelson or whoever can come in then client can come in and they can stamp You know entire body can walk on it So it's a matter of that how that first 10 crore comes in who brings in that money So that's the question Before we talk about measurement actually, you know, who's ever is available in the room They know a measurement is just a skirt route just to you know get that you know campaign on board it first of all Like you know before talking about measurement. We must talk about a disability Do we really know who's traveling via Western X with me in Mumbai? If we know that we can give them a better solution if we know where the audience is we can plan better After that, there is this yes, there are solutions shape shaping up which can measure. What are the impact of that campaign? So first thing is all the brands are building first party data Are you are you investing on first party data? If yes, measurement is there if you if you are let's just you know Missing that address ability Measurement is impossible. Whatever whatever third-party, you know platform you plug in it is going to fail It is going to fall flat You need to invest in you know address ability You have to build it first-party data if you know who is passing through your site If you know who is traveling through Mumbai airport If you know what the digital footprint of people sitting in this room, you can plan a better campaign By default measurement will give you a fantastic result. No one is going to ask you Just invest in address ability, you'll have the major ability by default Talking from a media owner perspective See we are in an industry where The fragmentation is so high. It's so high that you know I think every second or third year top 20 media owners of India would be changing Just because from the back end It's not a it's not a problem statement as such But the tenders that any media owner gets three years five years seven years ten years at max not more than that and during those five to ten years Even if someone comes forward and puts his foot down to you know start a measurement currency To extrapolate that on a national basis It's a Herculean task As Navindu they're told that you know it has been tried a lot of times in the past and in a lot of cities But until and unless this industry remains fragment and it is expected to remain so There there can't be any single measurement tool from the media owners perspective But when we are talking about data as such that how many Cars are there on roads how many two-wheelers are there on roads and on a any particular stretch as such Then there are many tools which are available. It may be Google mobility data or it may be any other platform which is offering those The footfall that is happening on that stretch But will that footfall or will that data convert it into a bigger revenue pie? Then that's again a question which has to be asked from the overall agency side Because if you're talking about TAM data if you're talking about irs data the assumptions that they are making As you will be knowing better. What are the wrong assumptions and which are the right assumptions? Exactly, so that's why I also don't wish to get into that because I mean we are living those assumptions are of our cake world Today, they think that one newspaper is being read by four people in a household and where you know You have three generations and the only the older generation is more interested in newspapers the rest to have already shifted to tabs and When we're talking about time or but can we also have the number of data points that they are picking up so We are short of data and no second thoughts on that but is the data of the other industry relevant? That's a question everyone can answer. Can I sure sure so I think look what? client will look at is the Common currency why they are looking at because different data point won't work for them This has to be put against all media how doubt out of home is flaring Okay, not to be able to do that. There has to be a common currency measurement by out of home And it has to be done by the industry now as regards to your fragmentation Even bark started with only four or five publisher. There'll be 10 such publishers who are there for 50 60 years, so no excuse I think top five six guys should come in and they just put in that money Okay, whatever that money is 15 crore 20 crore whatever that money is it is finally going to get back To all of us in a much much bigger way, and I am party to it. Whatever percentage I need to give I'll give Just one other question coming moving slightly away from measurement and this is on the creative bit I had only not originally not thought of that but as that part came up here And there's a question to all of you Is that typically when when digital started becoming big in this country? There's always this debate about saying that should a television campaign be copy pasted on to the mobile screen You know or should there be a different creative and we have seen that in some cases and I've been a party to it I've run enough research on that. There's that in some cases a copy paste works as well but in some cases you need to have you know a different kind of Creative and there are the rules are different, you know because the sizes are different the The mentality with which the consumer is consuming it is different. TV is a late back medium mobile is a you know Go forward medium outdoor What are your thoughts on that especially when you get into a DOH where today you have you know the opportunity to create whatever creatives you want In terms of either it being stills or it being a video or it being you know You know you have those rotating Thank you for asking this question actually. I Think there is huge opportunity in today's world to open an outdoor based creative agency I mean if and and that's what I was discussing a couple of days ago with a friend that you know We need to train a lot of people today Either in out-of-home space or in digital out-of-home space or creative out-of-home space You know the presentation of limb in the morning. It clearly suggested that 40 47% of the efficacy of the campaign was based on the creative and still we are getting a lot of campaigns which are just cut copy paste because as Mr. Pandey told us that you know we are the last We are the last slide in the presentation and that's a fact we have to accept that So when we are the last slide in the presentation How can we accept anyone to folk or any creative team as such to focus on out-of-home creative and look at it from a very different perspective You'll not believe seven days ago. One of our campaigns just got canned In digital out-of-home space because this the creative approved was two is to one not is not one is to two That's such a minor difference, but the client approvals it takes what I mean the hierarchy Just from two is to one to one is to two takes a week to get approved So that's where you know I'll actually work on it the creative out-of-home agency and By next year I think we we should come up with some good creatives and focus creatives which are only working in out-of-home space Because we are different out-of-home is a different we are special rather. It's a special Child of the overall media industry and it needs special focus because we can this special child can actually create wonders for the other mediums I am bit disagree on that slightly. So I'll tell you why Every brand so, you know, whenever they are sending a e-mailer or let's say they are, you know buying spots on let's say on TV or let's say they're doing a social campaign or let's say whatever there's a media mix or Whatever wherever they interact with their TG They want to leave a experience which is a unified toward their brand. So that's the reason that creatives are like that It's it's not just a no intentionally copy-paste is just because of they want to leave a one experience With wherever they are interacting with the TG or with their existing consumer. In fact, let's say, you know These days, you know, they they talk about like, you know personalization as well at a scale You know, they want to build a great experience around, you know with their, you know All the touch point wherever it is even let's say, you know, so when you let you know Let's end you interact with, you know, these are banks Let's say when we swipe your IDFC, you know, you know, credit card and you get a message which is completely personalized So they are doing it intentionally. So what I feel is like, you know, because I belong from my Martek platform as well So so they want to create a one unified experience If they are talking about one communication on social, they want to replicate on OH as well So they they want to build a one unified experience. So let's say they're launching one brand. They they can't change that communication Yes, there can be some tweak and up and down toward when they're creating a let's say reproducing a one asset for a OH on a for a, you know, for a banner or let's say they're utilizing, you know, converting it to, you know, video as well Or let's say they are, you know, ingesting some caricature, but the communication the assets are more or less same Because of a purpose, which is, you know, want to create a one experience so that, you know, let's say I've seen an advertisement on OH, which is a bigger side on, let's say, on Western XOXO highway Next day when I'm traveling from Mumbai to Delhi on arrival screens, I can see the same messaging on arrival, you know baggage belt screen and next day when I'm, you know, let's say I'm on a mini TV on Amazon I see the same sort of, you know You know Assets so just connect me with that brand. I can recall what they want to communicate I can I can immediately connect with that brand. So that's something, you know, brand, you know, silently at a backend Try to, you know, try that, you know, approach. I think that's a reason. It's not a copy-paste. I Can I can understand like, you know, even, you know, we as a lemma We also face a lot of challenges in terms of custom sizes because all the sites got, you know, custom sizes and Brand primarily produce one video which meant for TV or which meant for YouTube because They are the one who's getting maximums, you know, spent out of, you know, there they may spend So I can understand what is the pain behind that, you know, even we are also facing that it's it's it's kind of Operational challenge. I can see that it's not a problem at all. I think Creative agency, the television company, the creative team who works on television network, television campaign Digital creative agency is completely different because each medium is different and they need to be treated differently So as of now, it is the out-of-home comes under traditional media. So basically the creative agency Works on television campaign as well as out-of-home campaign and press campaign But digital creative is done differently. So now my question is that why when it's a different channel of media Where in audience movement speed one billboard to the other billboard has a different challenge Someone some one billboard has, you know, streetlight junction two minutes. The visibility time is two minutes The other billboard is you know, you are running at a faster speed So obviously your logo sizing to your image to your everything needs to be changed. I agree with the law Each medium to be treated differently Without changing the theme what you are saying is theme theme can continue across but The content which is has to be done on out-of-home Has to be different and idea cafe is working on that Basically, we are Specializing in content creation. Okay, that is what we are working on and midline creative people Are working with us to build that If I have to give the advertiser site view on this thing so our brief to the creative is always to achieve the certain goals And based on that goal they create a messaging. So I think gone are the days when we do the adaptation Like this creative goes on to this adaptation is it has gone. It's almost over You are right. Some may never do there is a digital separate teams are there to the come out with the separate version of the creative The intent remain the same But yes out-of-home That's kind of the creativity is not coming out because the within the creative team the teams are not that tuned Sometime they try to do the experiment and sometime they try to do the some kind of the innovation This kind of the idea they're trying to bring out but there is a scope is available So I think that's will make the creative is more convincing for the out-of-home Like you mentioned the example of the apple So maybe they had thought it the creative on that way to showcase this picture and this product feature. So that's the challenges there Thank you gentlemen. I think we are already over time