 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always to my co-host Tom. What's going on brother? How you doing? Oh friends? I'd I'm doing fairly well Good glad to hear it. You know Tom After rewatching Dune 2 recently, I decided to go back and watch The original Dune David Lynch Dune. Okay first one Probably still my favorite one. Okay, you know, this is what it is not that I think even more so Even more so than the the recent a recent run. I think so for various incendiary reasons So I think villain use version of Dune is absolutely exceptionally good I just think there's some story changes. He made that I don't love but anyways regardless of all that They're both amazing and you can like whatever you like but as I was thinking about watching those you know Tom the reason that it came to my mind was because Tom, do you know that he who controls the spice controls the universe and Today the spice will certainly flow because we're gonna be talking about the removed models thing as well as other AOS for news So I mean is that spice or salt? Yeah, it's spice. It's spicy spicy takes spicy takes. It's a spicy. I see the I see where you go I see how you got there. Hmm. I had to walk. I don't know if it was fun I don't I don't know like I have thoughts clearly. This is the you know, this this hits home You know, and we'll get to that but at the same time I Mean is it really a surprise? Depends on yes some certainly I mean again, it depends on different Perspectives of course and things like that. Yeah, two known people are We'll get that but first the first of course the news Talking about many things today including all the other news which is like actually really exciting and good and shared a lot of really Awesome stuff that I'm excited about for 4.0, but of course first the news and all our normal fun So let's talk about that rumor engine that very clear rumor engine Yeah, there it is. It's a 40k thing. I Mean, are you sure though? sure It has rounded rivets Yeah, that's fair. That's fair and and like a seemingly flirtedly type of thing So it's some kind of sisters a battle unit. So, okay Cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. All right. Good. I don't I don't I don't disagree. I don't disagree with that. Okay. Um, so we have Clan rat models boom story boom. I built I built 20 clan rats this week. They did not look like this Sure. Here's a fun thing So I have something like a hundred and fifty hundred and sixty clan rats I don't know it's somewhere in that range like they get lost over time. So like I don't know exactly how many I have But I mean like I can certainly feel like even now I could feel the under 3.0 I could feel the maximum reinforceable amount of clan rats, right? Sure sort of 60 60 20 or whatever kind of the full the full sauce as it were there, right and One of the things I was doing I finished up a very big project this weekend And so to which I'll talk about in a minute But to reward myself I cleaned my office. Okay, so like one of the things I like to do is I reward I reward whenever I finish a very hard project or hard work. I like to reward myself by cleaning and organizing You you crack me up. I mean I get it. I get it, but you're cleaning and organizing looks very different than what mine does Why so Just look at your paint racks son, like they're obviously organized by brand by color tone all in Roy G. Biv Yeah, what's your point? Mine are that they're not on my desk. That's put away. Yeah. Yeah, that's just a glimpse. Yeah, sure So I mean there's something rewarding about putting bringing order to chaos and putting the universe back to how it was so at any rate I was cleaning out my closet because I Sort of reorganizing things in my storage area as I saw you were doing as well recently for for sort of kits and overflow stuff Yeah, well, actually, you know, do you know why I'm doing what I'm doing? I Pulled out spearheads of everything. Oh, like I've created I've created a like a single bookshelf for the kids And I in prep for this summer. That's how crazy. I'm trying to not do other work That I've pulled out a bunch of all the spearheads And so I've been building and finalizing all that I have a bunch of slick blade seekers on my desk right now That are the last group of the of the stuff that I'm building for those kids for the spearhead stuff. Yeah No, Richard, you're not wrong the now I say this this story set up to say that when I was going through my Spru because I have like some bins of sprues that are organized by like army and type and stuff and When I was going through them, I How many storm bourbon do you have? Some more that was just it. I was shocked at how many clan rats screws I still had I was like my god I still have so many of these like I have I have at least another unit of 40 at least I didn't bother to count, but I was like this is at least 40 more clan rats on Sprues still and I'm like what what is this how these are some had those for so many years So I threw away a bunch of stuff and and you know like like through like in the trash throw away Yeah, not like it's not stuff on screw, but bits and stuff through a way. Okay. Okay. That's what I was concerned about I was like really you threw that stuff away Yeah, it's so funny like I mean I don't like whatever. I just give you people rather than I believe way But I don't I've been the recipient of that you trust upon me a bunch of crypt guard You're like here. I don't need these I have other alternate sculpts. Take them. Thank you What's the plan rats Tom next time you're up there all yours buddy? No I'm pretty sure I have about 80 clan rats of my own most of it new on sprue at least 40 storm vermin And a bunch of other ridiculous Skaven stuff so like I was digging through trying to find to see if I had any warp lightning cannons And I was truly shocked by the amount of skaven that I have that said I like these sculpts a lot a lot I like them a lot. I do I do but what I'll say is this like Yes, I like them like I don't I'm not I'm not gonna like qualify them any other way. I do I like them having built What I'll say is this having built a bunch of Zangor and Arcanite Arcanites. Yeah, sure Zangor and carrot carrot acolytes This last week as well It dawned on me that I'll bet all of these are all fairly monopos Like what you see here is the pose that you get out of the build with maybe a head swap But the almost no weapon swaps almost all this stuff is gonna be static And so that will certainly true for whatever comes in the initial box because the initial boxes are always you TB kids But but here's what I'm saying is that I was building like the Zangor box spruce not the foot push to fit I was building the carrot acolytes and that I was still running into that problem There was like a weapon swap that I could choose between sure there was a handful of head swaps But in general they were fairly static It was just very original clan rats are two pieces Tom. It's the clan rat and an arm that sockets in And hold on hold on and a shield you can glue on the other side. It's actually three I just built 20 of them this week. So I know very well. No one's a shield on I Did every single one and the ones that had hand weapons had the broken shield and the ones that didn't have hand weapons That had the longer range weapon the spheres had fully complete shield still Yeah, I mean, you know, it has to it has to feel right. No, but I just say that just I say that just to say that Like I I recognize how monoposes old sculpts are I do actually still like them like having just built 20 of them I was like I I'm okay with them replacing them with these But but these old ones aren't shabby in any way shape or form No, that's why I kept them all Tom because honestly, I could just use them to fill out the ranks Like they can just be interspersed amongst the new guys and I don't think it'll be that huge of a difference One of the reasons I really like these new sculpts is they're still relatively simple. Like obviously you've got that claw the claw leader up front the champion of the unit. This is obviously the command module, right? so musicians and a baron and claw leader or whatever and You know like these guys are still relatively straightforward. There's nothing that complicated about what's going on here It's still pretty simple. You're still talking about like the ratty bits the two pieces of cloth and a little bit of armor, right? So it's it's still a relatively simple paint job. Now, obviously these are elevated As far as the the heavy metal team doing the work But I think you could still make them look really good in a relatively short amount of time. So Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I I mean, honestly, I like I like what they're doing It makes me kind of sad in that we're we have a bunch of I don't know. We'll see we'll see what the line refresh looks like. I'll just say that because Some of the stuff just may not have had it to go but we'll see We'll see that's what I would say I mean time will tell more sculpts, please Sculpts, please like that's what I want. Okay. We want the models. We want the juice Give me the juice. Yep You like it the juice, huh? I give you the juice. Okay, so No, Charles, we did not Okay, next news item Gold demon commended entries Yeah, I wanted to highlight a couple they put up an article here. I would recommend people go check it out I'll put it down the show notes Um, but I would recommend people go check out the commended entries It's always good to look at the winners and stuff. Obviously, that's an accomplishment an incredible accomplishment But frankly getting to commended is really really hard And um, I just like there were several in the commended category that I really really loved For example, this one I I harvested just a few from the article that I really liked that I I saw at the show that I thought That looks really cool. Um, I really liked Andy's Eldar unit here, and I don't really like Eldar like I have no love whatsoever of Eldar I just thought he treated these really nicely Like the subtle blues and the white helmets just the red looks really rich It's just a nice overall piece Uh, and I enjoyed it the The three guys standing on rocks and dirt very popular in in 40k unit Uh, Richard Gray's vampire unit, which is like put together just from a bunch of different vampires from different Obviously, you know kato and the escurgan or whatever just just fun different things Gotta love the escurgan I know right. Yeah, like it just it's just a really cool unit. Um, I love the If you notice the little skull spider web freehand on Uh, lady witch critsa or whatever her name is Um, just thought it was a super cool Uh unit overall really really struck me even person. I thought it looked really cool And then this is uh, you may not recognize the name, but you know who this is. This is uh flameon Okay, this was his dude Everybody I don't most people don't know is his normal. It's his human name Um, but I got to hang out with him some at, uh, deptcon really nice dude Obviously an extremely talented painter and I just I thought his warmth back. I here was super duper cool. So These are three that just grabbed my attention that I want to share with people But you know go check out the the article. It's great Check out people doing awesome work Even if they didn't win a golden demon, it doesn't mean that their art wasn't incredible. So Agreed. Agreed. I Um, it just reminds me of how much I'm definitely not going to enter a painting competition anytime sure Uh, brawny mate says wasn't the lack of publicity for commended entries One of the things you didn't like about golden demon in the past vins. Yes, it was And with last year's uk when they started doing this and I fully fully fully support this a thousand percent I support this It seems like they rewarded people taking risks this year In a way that we haven't seen necessarily previously. Um, and I think that was that was previously one of your critiques as well Yep Yep It was uh, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. Uh, we'll see what happens with next year. Do I decide to put something Or not? I guess time well not only that like it, you know, it may be time for you to do a response video to yourself Sure. Sure. Absolutely Um, elliott said what's your opinion on the lighting at golden demon for the pictures if you mind commenting on that There's been some drama over that. Yeah, sure. I'm happy to talk about it. Um, obviously the lighting in the cases is utter garbo I mean, that's not I don't think I'm saying anything controversial there. Everybody knows that Um, there's not a human being who looked at the figs in those cases and thought that their figs looked good being Blasted by like 2000 lumen led lights two inches from the model Turns out it, uh, doesn't make for good good viewing of the figures in the case So that's unfortunate Now as to the photo taking Um, it has to do with the individual models I think they they tend to set the lighting and they don't adjust it much Like to take really good photos of models you have to like spend a lot of time adjusting the light on each model because First of all, they always use a white background which is going to work better for some figs and not for others It's just the nature of the thing and then secondly They always like they use very standardized settings It feels like and so as the figs shift in color tone and and and sort of style and amount of shadow It really they'll look very very different to sort of how they would look in the hand um So, I mean, I think they just don't spend the time to take proper photos is my answer the spread it comes down to Um They wash out a lot of stuff like things do just get overly blasted and and they some pictures just need different Different settings When you take a lot of pictures different models you will recognize that they you can't just use a single set of settings That's it's non controversial So there you go Okay, there you go. I commented on it. Uh, okay Good job, man. Yeah, absolutely Uh, all right, and I agree commended very much feels like fourth demon these days It's really hard to get up to commend it. So everybody here deserves a big shout out Okay, uh Dougie fresh do I think the judges knew about the AI background? Um, no, I I don't imagine they would I don't know how they could But they should have known it was a printed background Um, regardless of the usage of AI the printed background should be Yeah, you know not used so That's um, I mean you when you have a judging staff that's not Trained judges, I guess it's what you get. Um, so there you are. Uh, okay, cool. What else we got? Um, we had an FAQ this week drop the old We did we did it's long like and and not only is it long They decided to hit those armies. They said they were never touching again Oh, yeah, sure. Do you think like this is a freebie pass? They're like, oh, we'll give it one shot We'll give you all one update or do you think they'll actually be intentional about cultivating? um, those those secondary armies um Yeah, I think they'll I mean I think they deserve to give them an FAQ Right, like I think that that's just that's just them being responsible. I like the FAQ They're a little snarky at some places and that can rub some people the wrong way I saw some responses like that on twitter and I get it Especially to some of the questions. I mean I as someone who's answered a lot of FAQs in my day I get it after a while you get a little punch drunk when you read the same question like 200 times But then that's also a statement on how you wrote the rule, right? Right if there's that many questions coming in on it. Yeah, and and you know, it's a big very complicated game So it doesn't surprise me They made some really good changes that I thought like for example Closed model units get the plus one to combat res only if they have a unit strength the five or more That was a good change. I actually like that quite a bit A lot of closed order units were just getting like a free plus one for no reason And they're like single models and stuff um So, you know like there was there was some some good changes in there that I thought were were actually like They changed who can take sort of the the easy helm that was letting you stack too high on your save To only infantry and cabs so you can't put it on like giant monsters and get them down to a two up that kind of thing. So um Yeah, I mean on the on the on the most part. I thought it was all good changes good answers I didn't see anything that jumped out at me that I was like, oh, that's going to ruin my enjoyment of the game I thought it was just good clarifications. So It's the challenge with any game that has like literally 200 pages of rules, right? Is is you're gonna You're gonna need significant FAQs if it's a competitive game, right? So There you go um Yeah, I mean like it it's it's uh Faces and bases said this heavy you sounded like they took a few clarifications personally and agreed you got a snark Instead of a better written rule. Yeah, I mean like that's that's the problem Like I don't mind a little bit of comedy, but you don't want to actually be snarky I mean people have legitimate questions. You should you should answer them. So there you go There you go Uh, we're gonna do another old world show soon. I do want to do another one It's just they keep putting up these aos four articles that are like very much need to be talking about I'm just ducking and weaving here like with all these fourth edition announcements Like they're gonna be releasing articles multiple articles every week. I don't know how we get out of this until july This is pretty much the we're in a doom loop. Yeah now We are like because we're gonna start coming in covering armies here in the next couple weeks Yeah, so we'll we'll see we'll figure it out But we'll get an old world show in there somewhere. I'm not worried. I want to go back to it I've been playing some more games with it. So it's a lot of fun Okay Uh Cool, I think that's does that all our news tom? Uh, yeah, I think so for this week like other than the articles which we'll cover obviously in the main main segment Yes, indeed. Don't worry in the main segment. We're gonna be talking about all those other things. Okay, cool Well, tom, let's go to some pick of the week then What do you got ever? What do you got there brother? What do you want to share with people? So I had an original And then I have another one that I realized that I want to spruke and so I'm still going to steal the original Which you're going to be angry about which is fine. Um Hey, whoa did a wonderful level headed but authentic critique of The topic that we're going to talk about and so if you all haven't seen Uh If you all haven't seen hey woe's uh treatment of the model coaling I think he hits all the high points that need to be hit You know, and I think that are in a in a just a deeply authentic and truth-telling way Without a lot of salt or without a lot of rage. And so I really appreciated Hey woe's engagement um My bonus this week or my plus one this week is actually john nines' video on golden demon And on the final steps He kind of did that to get him over the edge and as he was reflecting on the event of adepticon I really appreciated that just because um I think it these are conversations that you and I have had before where i'm like, what is this missing? Right, like there's something that the there's the there's one additional thing here that it needs to push it a little bit higher Right, and you're like go do this this this and I think that we like john modeled that process in conversation well Um, and I don't think that we do that enough in army painting Of like what is the what do I need to change here to to go that next step? Without going to an event and then going to a paint judge and be like, why didn't I win and then they put those things up? Like just but the peer feedback is appreciated and I loved how john modeled that in his video yeah like the funny part about it is I think oftentimes when you're a Juni when you're sort of starting out in the in the art You're afraid to get critical feedback and stuff like that, right? It's just it's harder to take it because you're sort of you don't really know what you're doing and so you don't really know What you're doing wrong everybody who I know who's like an artist who's Performing at whatever we want to call it like a high level. I don't know whatever you call that right They love when other they love having other other You know Artists as it were look at their stuff and and give them and just like be like this this this this this this this right and it's Because it just becomes something you're you're inert to and something you realize that like you're missing things because you are too Close to into it, right? And you need that feedback from other people. So Yeah, it's it's uh, it's a great way. John like absolutely. I agree with you models that very well Uh, for my pick of the week. Look, it's fine. You took that hey woe video. It's going to be a hey woe with thon I'm also going to shout out a hey woe video and that video is called the year is 1993 Okay, he put it up today. It's one of my favorite videos. He's ever made There's no way it's monetized because he's using just straight commercial music in it And it's uh, incredible. It's absolutely incredible. Uh, I I like Hey woe makes good videos period the year is 1993. It will be linked below Uh, and just just watch it. It's like 11 minutes. Just watch it. It's worth it It will be for those of a certain age say like Tom you and I's age. I'll even know you're younger than me by a by a some small amount It will very much be like a oh, yeah, that was my life That's been my life So, uh, like I have to imagine it's what boomers felt when they when they first heard We didn't start the fire or whatever, you know, like that was their their response Okay At any rate, uh, so check it out um All right with that Tom let's go over to some Hobby time What you've been working on Uh, as I said, I've been building the end of my spearhead Content like just filling out my case. And so I think I have five I have Uh, about 17 armies in the case of various spearhead and vanguard stuff And so once I get done with my current project and the commission that I'm working on It'll be what I'm working through for painting. And so the goal be the goal being That like painting through all of the spearhead for all of the armies Um to have like playable painted like Again, hoping that spearhead's good. Um, if it's not like that this project could get abandoned real quick, but Um, because I have a bunch of young players. It's just the exact on ramp that I need for that perfect perfect uh And then and then as well finishing the painting for the event this week that vince has bailed on Tyler and I and anthony and will not be joining us for thanks vince. I'm happy to have done it Uh, believe me. I'm I'm so happy. I'm not having to go to that event this weekend. Um, like it's nothing against the event I'm sure it's going to be an awesome event. It's just I'm very happy to not be traveling this weekend. Um Okay, uh for my hobby time we're going to switch photos We're going to go over here because I finished this bad boy up So this is the this is a big. I don't know what he is. He's a knight. He's a renegade knight um Yeah, he's he's he's a guy. He's a 40k. He's a nergling knight. He's a nergling knight. That's right. Yes, exactly Um, so I've got a few photos of him here. I've still got to like crop some of these and stuff like that But they're they're good enough for now um These are just a lot of the raw photos Uh, but I finished this guy all up Very pleased with how he came out. We got a little tighter shots here. There you go So you can see some of the some of that rusty crusty goodness in in there Uh, but this guy was a lot of fun. Um, it's fun to work on like super nergal fide Models, this was just like a ton of of work. This guy was probably like, I don't know 250 hours plus all in more than that. I can't even say Um, he just took a long time But I'm really happy with him. What does it say? Somebody said he's uh, he's a knight castigator. There you go. Sure that guy Sounds yes, I knew that of course Um Castigators aren't those didn't those just get discontinued? I think you were talking about a different guy Um, but this he does a big gun and a sword and I like I like big robots with swords Because it's the dumbest thing you could possibly put on something like this and it's awesome Uh, you know, so uh, yeah So how many knights have you done fence at this point? I mean, I've done lots of knights, but but you know, this is about the It's about the ones that are done to sort of this level Um, I've probably done. I don't know eight knights or so to this level I only tend to do one of this level per year because 250 300 hours, whatever these things take is like Yeah I just don't have it in me man. That's that's a lot You only have like 2000 working hours in a year. So this is like 10 15 percent of my hobby for the year Right on on this one piece. It's just I can't do more than that Um, but yeah, he came out real fun Uh, so I'm happy with all the weathering and streaking and everything like that. I made he'll he'll he'll he'll have many videos coming up Uh, and so, you know, there you go So that was my big project. I finished Does it hurt your soul that you've poured that much time into a piece that you could never actually like enter into a golden demon or Or like competitive Because it's not the right colors, right? Like that like it doesn't match any of the houses. Yeah, correct It doesn't matter how good it is it would get rejected out of hand at golden demon. Yeah, because I'm using like non-standard iconography And I have freehand and and it's not it's like nergal. It's not matched to any of the houses It's not house very tricks or whatever whatever the nergal houses are Like does it hurt your soul to like put that much time in a project like that? Okay, not at all I want to paint the thing how I want to paint the thing painting it for golden demon where I have to like, um Constrain what I want to do to better suit their Their whims and their stupid desires that hurts my soul Painting something that is fun and that makes me happy Does not hurt my soul. It frees my soul And if it like I'll take this thing to plenty of competitions. He'll he'll he'll see competition. I'm not worried Um The other thing I'm working on and then so I finished that guy up. I did my office cleaning like I said um, so this guy was a lot of fun and The base was also really fun to do to do that like I'm really happy with a toxic waste goo river that I came up with Um, I was kind of like a layered experience. So I thought that was cool Um, but I wanted to work on something fun. So I have this like beast model This is gonna be like way overly bright because of the light up here Nice, but I have this like he's kind of like a torrent a little bit from um Uh, wow, I guess I don't know something like that But he's a cool model and he was given to me by a friend who's a sculptor And so it's not like a commercially available thing And this is one of his sculpts He's been working on and he gave it to me to paint and he was like I don't know if you'll ever paint up, but you can take it and I was like, I love this guy Love his muscles and everything. So there'll be a video for him to All about painting like his fur and stuff like that of how to do sort of fur texture But uh, this guy's just been fun And I've been looking at like a native american garb For like how to do the rest of his because that's clearly what his clothing is modeled after For like what's the color palettes and stuff like that. So Um, yeah, so that's you just that's a fun relaxation project I'll still get a nice, you know a video maybe two out of it, but um But it's you know It's for me to for me to enjoy and just relax And in painting that I'm also getting to test out these new Like adam paints these things which I picked up at at adeptcon from big child They were made in association with ruben martinez. So this is me giving them a good run before I do a full review. So Yeah, so it's been a very busy hobby week. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm telling you Sounds like yeah Well, there's Kevin said he can go to crystal brush or something. Well, there's no more crystal brush Um, but he can go to like mhe and capital palette and stuff like that certainly so and he will okay Uh, charles hollum says next up that are acheron. Is that the other version of this guy this big guy? I have another one of them. I don't know what they're called But yes, I do have the other version of this guy as well. Um, at some point I'll do another one of them Um, I don't have a corn Night yet. So I'll probably do a corn night at some point which would be fun Uh, okay, cool Uh with that Tom, are you ready to get into the main segment? Uh, some might say I was born for it. I was born ready He will know his ways as though he was born to them Okay, cool. Well, let's do that then all right Now there's three different articles. We're going to talk about today but We're going to start With the spicy one tom. We're going to start right away now before We get into this everybody hit like Subscribe do all those fun things if you enjoy Fun, nergal painted nights and other things like that and go in your own way with your hobby and anything else Why don't you hit like it really helps out and helps other people find the show Okay Now tom I want you to start before I get into it because I've got a Got a bit of a rant I want you to go. I'm gonna let you go for a minute So what do you think of this? Give me the models leaving the range? What did you think of this on the whole? Like give me your 40,000 foot of you. Give me your give me your feelings Yeah, so Have you ever been right and hated the fact that you were right? All the time tom that's my life so The whole internet exploded last week Right like the twitter warhammer twitterverse, right? And it even like began to bleed its way into like mainstream gaming's content Sure, like magazines and stuff like that about about the kind of explosive discontinuation of a number of lines And on one hand it made me laugh because I know in a number of chats I was sharing that like I felt firmly that beasts of chaos were going to get this continued I felt and I was arguing from like a product management like a product line standpoint Of like just managing inventory and product lines and differentiations and stuff like that That that was going to go. I was arguing that there were pieces of that beast Beasts of chaos would go and I said I didn't said at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if we had The dwarves and dark elves from cities go Then it would be replaced with some degree of like Allies that we saw how cities did previously, right of some type of like contingent units coming in from like fire slayers and ko and on stuff To replace that That didn't happen, but those other lines did get discontinued As well with that we knew I knew that some stormcast stuff was going to get retired just from the standpoint of line refreshers um to the real shock was Was the sacrosanct chamber It was the entire the entire canning of arguably some of the best sculpts they've ever done Yes, they were fatcast, but they were also They were also there's some more just legitimately good sculpts The kitty caters were the first sculpts that I ever looked at and were like I love that I'm not playing stormcast, but I bought and built them because I love them sure astra astra astralia soul, whatever The mounted named hero riding a kitty I like I loved her and I did a wonderful conversion like head swap and stuff like that on her and I just they're wonderful models um And so that was a bit surprising and yet it wasn't Um, we know that stormcast was overwhelmingly bloated Um and that this really is gws mo it's been this way Forever and I know that people would say oh, yeah, but that was you know, this is different This is different than the move from four hammer fantasy battles into to a os first edition and it's not Because when you move to a compendium rewrite ground up rewrite it is like moving to another game Right like it is truly a like it is truly a Revisiting rewriting Reconceptualizing what the game is and if major callings are going to happen. This is when it's going to happen It's going to happen at these major compendium, you know, ground up rewrites Um, because this is like It removes extra work if you're cutting you like you don't need to design things for For stuff that is needs to go the way of the dodo And so in that sense, none of it surprised me but all of it broke my heart Watching the pain Get rehashed as people had these armies that they've fallen in love with and as you have said, you know, they identified with Yeah, right and it was all an emotional reaction that they were You know and for me it like it re it re energized and reminded me of the fresh wounds of of what happened with tomb kings And then what happened was high elves and dwarves and all the things that they've done before And so um for those that did lose armies. I'm sorry Because it sucks This is this is the exact thing that I warned about That I said that you know, like one of my major rants back then that got me blacklisted from gw was that like this type of Approach to a model line sets a precedent for how they're going to move forward when it happens again Yeah, and so I'm trying to raise a big enough stink So that there would be pushback from the community in order for them to look at amending policies and not approaching it in this way That was not effective and they've done it again um, and now it's it's hit storm cast players Arguably some of those that used to cry only the faithful And now they have been cold as well. Yeah, um, and so I I'm sorry Sure just to clarify by the way because I do want to hit a couple comments Yeah, it came up while you were talking kyle. Yeah, we're live. Hi kyle. I can I can see you. Nice to see you uh, okay Let's see to do to do assistant ref I don't think this gwz mo this move towards a new approach where model lines are just computer on Just continue on a compressed timeline keep mind when the tomb king stuff was retired There were models in that range that were only four years old When they were retired So that was a whole army going but there were models that were released specifically the Tomb guard the necropolis knights and the necker sphinx war sphinx, uh, as well as that tomb king We're all released in may 2011. They were, um Squad or whatever we want to call it retired, uh, legended, uh in You know, whatever we'll call it 20 end of 2015 2016 So four or five years old something like that depending on how much you want to you want to give there for when they actually died died So there certainly is some precedent for for models going quickly um Okay, so that's just quick quick comment responses. Yeah Okay My thoughts Let's go This is Legendarily Dumb how they decided to execute on this I am shocked To my core that a company with professional marketing staff Put this content out in the format they did The Nature of models needing to get and get cut from the range at the change is absolutely true There were things that need to be retired That is a fact That is reality. They produce too much stuff. They cannot produce these kits forever. It's a physical thing They carry a cost I understand all of that that is a harsh reality of playing a miniatures game Is that you know those miniatures will not be produced forever And so we knew there were going to be things that were going to need to be retired the nature though of how they chose to execute on that was so Wrong-headed and backwards it shocks me to no end Because it it shows that whoever Made the decision wrote this put this all together And by the way, I don't want to blame the person who wrote the copy on this I'm not sure the person who wrote the copy on this likely is somebody way down the line Who was responding to their boss's boss's boss's request? So I want to be super clear about my anger My anger is directed at the marketing department as a whole and the decisions that were made in the upper management of the organization People who do have the power to effect change okay and I mean you can say that if it's true There are plenty of old things but those still sell they have to retire models like models will be retired It can be a little can be a lot. You cannot like it. You can like it. It's simply true It's you can set your timeline wherever you want can be 20 years 30 years 10 years five years It's some kind of time horizon Okay Like it will happen the world will eventually just become dust. All right. So like it's a bit but that's not the point The point isn't do they have to be retired they do The point is is that this is the complete wrong way to do it And I'm going to break this tom into four different categories of wrongness Because this is screwed up in four different states, but before I get into the four categories I want to talk about why this matters so much and why everybody reacted Okay Because this isn't just we're not making a model anymore That's number one and this isn't our game isn't going to have rules that support this anymore This is what this is doing is saying some part of your identity is dying That's what this is People you mentioned it because I talked about it before but people identify with armies that they play When we collect this stuff and paint it and pour our souls into it We are doing more Then what you do with a magic card like a band announcement happens in magic. You make a new deck Okay The problem with this is this is a much deeper emotional relationship And when you cut something you are really Literally cutting away a part of someone Okay, well metaphorically not literally metaphorically And people will respond emotionally that it doesn't matter if you can proxy It doesn't matter anything anything If there are solutions the pain is still there It's raw you've hit a nerve Because you've hit someone's identity and people's identities are obviously pretty important to them Okay And I want you to have that be the grounding For what I'm about to say in these four categories. So let's go through it Okay Number one like because there there's there's category the first Things that got cut that have replacements coming and they were unclear about And did not show the replacements and caused nothing but dumb confusion on the internet amongst low information people Who you will easily bleed from the hobby through your bad writing So this is scaven basically all And stormcast some Okay, so things like liberators The number of comments I was following all of this and the number of comments I saw that were people not understanding that some of these things were being Replaced replaced Was immense Like the sculpts were being updated. That's what's happening Which we've had done in a variety of different ways and we've known like zombies are a great example of that They could have very clearly they should have ended the article with these models are going to be retired No, here's incorrect. They should have done this They should have won perfect world. They should have shown the new sculpts Old model new model old model new model old model new model period I don't give a crap if it cuts your future clicks. You got plenty of things to make people come to your website and click You are actively hurting your player player base because you're trying to farm clicks Whoever the may the website manager is period Full stop If that's untenable if you really can't stomach that Then what you should have had is a different frame. I'm going to go down here. Okay, sure Let's go down to the stormcast. You should have had a different frame liberators should have been in A green frame or something. I don't give a crap or have a box around it or have a big giant star or whatever Saying that new sculpts were coming. Correct. And right before we started naming any models It should have said all models you see That have the green frame or the giant star or the smiley face or the don't worry. It's going to be okay Book from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. I don't care Yeah Should have had that so that people glancing and reading the article who are low information players Would know oh, okay, you're getting a new one and by the way in that text They should have said not only is this getting replaced But if you like your liberators if you like your whatever that's getting replaced It doesn't matter you will be able to use your old sculpts indefinitely They are just as valid at every tournament every setting. We recognize you there is no need to breathe by or repaint these models This is just change management language just change management language That's number one. That's category one I have never seen a harder self-own in a piece of marketing This is an unforced error They pissed a bunch of people off When they didn't need to at all Okay one That's group one Okay Now let's talk group two Group two is a specialized category okay Group two is stormcast models that are being retired from the line theoretically without replacement Okay Which who knows exactly what that is from this list because of the problem or see see original statement about group one But assumingly all of sacrosanct getting retired They're it's not going to get a mealy replaced. They said the chamber is going away, right? So assumingly they're not recasting them Okay, at least not at this point maybe maybe in some future iteration if they have a role in the line Future could be anything could be a pony, right? Yeah Okay The proper way to do this like yes, of course Okay, like most of these have pretty one-to-one replacements in the line Like yes, you could use your evocators on dracolines as drakoths Yes, you could use your Your sequiturs as liberators. It's a dude with a shield and a hammer Or a lady with a shield and a hammer, right? They just happen to have robes on so like obviously you can proxy them, of course But that's not really helpful. Okay right You could like you can it's fully within your power and I hope everybody who has their stormcast realizes that they can and they do Okay But that but like the proper way to fix that would have been to actually make it real To say look we had too many people doing the same role We we're going to see the liberator scroll in an article coming up here when we talk about the war scrolls, right? And they have pictures of multiple liberators at the bottom. You want to know what should have been down at the bottom of that old liberator sequitur new liberator. These are liberators Liberator's armor takes many forms Right depending on Well who it when exactly their armor was cast when exactly they were reforged last Etc etc etc etc all three of these models are liberators for our purposes Is it perfect? No because people who played sacrosanct likely want their specialized rules But it at least gives the actual authority to the player to say we see you Your models are still valid. They have a place in our game. They're right here. Look here's the picture on the scroll We've integrated them in and we and we expect and and hope and encourage you And license you to keep using them going forward And that was it. That's all it took put a different picture Put sequitur lady on the liberator scroll How hard is that nobody cares? Right It would be the easiest thing in the world But yes, of course now they have to do proxies and then people will feel like I don't want to do a proxy I want to do the real thing blah blah blah blah you make people uncomfortable No reason no that's number two That's category two Okay so That's like if these if this sacrosanct had to go which Fine, I guess like I don't know why it had to go Like what should have been retired is 20 hero scrolls and and maybe if you and the And maybe the dragon and the dracolith stupid Like the worst sculpts in the storm castle line and by the way when you retired 20 hero scrolls yet again It should be the same thing like all of these All of these heroes are this hero, right everybody who's vaguely standing around with like a magic stick as your caster guy now Okay, like Right Yeah, okay But like so, you know number one I wouldn't have cut this entire chamber to begin with but if it had to be cut which like I don't whatever fine Right if it did then at minimum do the work to show that you care about the community Okay, that's category two Category three. We're not done yet is boc and Bone splitters So I want to scroll down here because like all these cave in a getting replaced whatever whatever. Let's talk boc and bone splitters We've all known the bone splitter retirement was coming for a while Sure Like I mean we've been talking about it for the better part of the year We've literally been talking about it on this show for nine months. It's obvious. You didn't care about this army forever Okay Fine it had to go Okay I think retiring boc was was a was legitimately a mistake if bone splitters had to go bone splitters had to go Basically, I mean I don't want to be insulting to the few bone splitters players out there, but Legitimately, no one played the army, right? It was like it was an almost unplayed army for Rit writ large and I'm sure the sales numbers reflected that it had to be cut That's one of the hard calls you got to make as a product line manager You will eventually come to a point where you've got to make hard calls And if something just isn't selling you do after retire products as someone who's had to do that in their life multiple times It sucks and it's painful Because some some small number of clients are using it, but it's what you do Yeah, boc We're losing Because as near as I can tell they happen to exist in the old world. Yeah, that's it So we're losing an army to some interscene political chicanery Going on in the halls of gw between Normal studio and specialist design studio unforgivable Yeah, just unreal Unreal levels of stupidity Who cares Because you've like you've said in the article they're going to the old world They'll still be available. You've said this. They're a mainline army in the old world Okay And I understand I I understand what you know rob obviously did a video on this and the You know that the financial lines in between that stuff Yep, that's all stupid. That's all stupid. There's no other words for it. It's indefensible business practices Join the modern age Having overlapping work like that is is absolutely nonsense absolute nonsense Okay I work for a company very large company That has Lots of small business units. I'm one of them My particular group that I work for has about 600 people. Tom my company my my small company within this very large company Okay, now my very large company that we roll up to Is 30 40 000 people around the world. It's massive okay And Across our organization, there's lots of like for each individual product for each of these businesses Yeah, we have lots of repeated things, but we don't compete against each other Okay, we're like we work synergistically with other business units in our division And where it makes sense to have shared services. We do so It rolls up to the parent organization. This is just like common sense in modern business Okay So to lose an army because of this civil war Or whatever it is is just dumb. It's just dumb It's you made a new army you made a new model for this the beast lord came out recently you made a herd stone Like you've done work you have they have unless spells some of these models were refreshed It's truly a cutting cutting off your nose despite your face situation. Like that's truly what this is Um, and the fact is is that we we got therodons We got zangor. We've got salon gore, right like We have an entire precedent of models that have been created that could easily have a home and could have been a renewed A beast of chaos line. No one can tell me that cragnos isn't an old centerpiece beast of chaos model Ragnos, he's not He's absolutely not I can tell you I can tell you with 100 certainty. He is exactly what he was designed for He was not intended for beast of chaos Ever and why do you why do you say that? Because I know it for a fact I'm not I'm not going to say any more than that, but I know it for an absolute complete certain 100 fact That's just the reality of the thing. I'm sorry to I'm sorry to break the news I law I know this cragnos rumors real popular, but it's not he was always designed to be exactly what he is He was never a beast of chaos thing Well, then he really doesn't fit in that faction and that's fine like the aesthetics like it blends into the beast of uh beast of chaos line aesthetically I have no comment on that. I can only comment on the thing here. Sure. Okay Regardless, um, there are on therodons Then if you don't want to go with that like therodons are new minotaur sculpts. Congratulations Oguroid thrometer. It's like the the sculpts are out there Right that could have easily lived in a renewed beast of chaos line and they chose not I have some theories and we can go into theory time at some point when you get done As to what happened with the stormcast But that's fine. You're you're only on point three. I am so my point is this is again Just dumb just dumb dumb category three is is is mainly about piece of chaos, but she should have been cut Sell them in both games. Who cares a bit put squares and circles in there. Okay, like fine and dandy Um, and I don't care about their interesting politics. I don't care about their departmental accounting That's all stupid. It's a bad way to run a business end Okay Okay Category four is things that were cut and we're completely unclear on what we're doing and just caused a lot of consternation Okay So here what I mean is specifically these guys I brought up on screen all of the war cry war bands, right So what they specifically say the definitive mortal followers means the number of war bands representing the wider workspires of chaos And the more realms we're retiring from the spotlight and the range This mostly involves war bands from the previous edition of war cry as well as Coggras ravagers from Under Warhammer underworlds, but they'll all get legends war scrolls. Okay. Are you retiring them fully? Are they never available ever again? Are they are you doing something with war cry? Are these things just retired from war cry? Are they not going to get rules in that game in the future? The amount of information lacking here is The silence is deafening Okay Yep Why would you print this like this? You have to know this is going to raise a thousand questions and just piss people off because now people are afraid that uh That suddenly war cry is going to go away Okay, right And So like, you know, look, do I feel bad for our our mutual friend who went out and did like the 70s splintered fang thing? Thing no, uh, I painted four of the 40 of those to be that was one of that was my first commission. So like I like I get it. Do I feel bad for him? No because I've had to play against that army multiple times There's no I don't feel bad at all. Okay, you're you don't you don't lament when those who have tortured you suffered righteous retribution, but That being said The amount of like like just seriously explain what you're doing because this is serious stuff This is a lot of units you cut from this army, which fine. Maybe it was too many. They're all duplicative There's not enough room to create unique roles Like say that stuff and say but don't worry We're not gonna these these they'll still be valid in war cry Or war cry is sticking around like it's still going to be a great great fun game or whatever You know what the best part about it that was is that because like With the exception here is that they couldn't have said use these as your dark oath models, right? Like Your dark of factions because they were all on wrong base sizes like if you'll remember most of them were on on 28s and then on top of them being on 28s Like they were mismatched in the units and like most of this just doesn't have a home It just doesn't And there's not anywhere for it to go clearly um Yeah, and and related to that like yes, you're highlighting these war cry war bands But it raised a bunch of questions about underworld war bands as well because from the article what it looks like Is that all underworld war bands are gone? seemingly or legend it I don't know hence category four of like hey, you need to say more Right say more Okay, there's there's not enough Okay And so that's a problem all over the place So that's category four of things that were screwed up with this with this article again This is just like from top to bottom. I hope people now understand like and that's the problem Everybody was angry and screaming at each other For completely logical but different reasons because everybody fell into had like an issue with one of these four categories Because they fell into just these four distinct pitfalls Okay, that could have been corrected at every step of the way I have talked about how they could have changed nothing Retired all of these models Right, and at least been more transparent about it People still would have been angry Of course and justifiably so for all the reasons I said at the beginning But at least we wouldn't have to make it worse. They made it worse okay Like not only did they dig their own grave they then threw some poison and poongie sticks at the bottom of it before climbing it Yeah, okay Yeah No, it's true. It's 100% true and it's Like it's so funny in my post on twitter one of the things I I had linked an old post that I posted back in like 2019 or 2017 or something Where I why basically said like they have to do better with communication and transparency Like that was my big critique and on one hand I I want to Thank them for the degree of transparency that they offered us. Yeah, I haven't got there yet, but I was going to get to it But yes The problem is is that they didn't go far enough. They did they weren't transparent in the ways they needed to be transparent yeah Now there's a secret fifth category here tom, but I'm not talking about it because it didn't cause any controversy Okay, and it's like it's this It's this stuff It's the like others Other than valkia, which just should like fine cast the fine get a new sculpt Right like and other than the humor that skilla and Enfin Grim was playable in like every game that warhammer made like everyone all of them Because like it's a war crime model. I guess not in a world secondly, but it's like a war crime model and a Aos model and a 40k model and a blood bowl model and just like old world model It's like was useful in every game system, which is just funny Um, you know these things are all like, okay Sure, sure. It's it's it's funny to me that big boss is like one quarter to one third of his actual Um, like that entire product line And so the fact that all those the other spite the plastic spider kit stayed and he didn't Like I was like come on guys like if you're gonna just pull the band-aid off just get rid of all of them It's okay. I accept that spiders are not gonna be part of the goblin aesthetic anymore. Like I I'm okay with that, but they didn't Yeah Again, I'm not saying this is nothing. I'm sure there's people who are like, oh, that's a shame But like whatever these these this seven things is just like it's it's seven things that's going away individual models right like you'll You'll you'll live is is my point here like In the end, this is like a falling and scraping your knee compared to falling and breaking your leg, right? I'm gonna miss that misweaver though Sure. Yeah so you know All in all I want to do I want to end this on a note of of of the the following thing and we we can we can I don't know We don't have to finish. I'm just ending my particular rant here. Yeah. Yeah And that's to say The bright spot here was the time that they gave to communicate this and this is important All of these things will be valid for a full first year of 4.0 And I appreciate them giving 15 15 ish months basically of warning to these things being retired That is a really notable change. Okay Yeah And one I actually do greatly appreciate so that people who have these armies, especially You know people who have boc and And and bone splitters or who had you know storm cast and don't want to proxy them out or or whatever Do you have the time to like one still play their armies and more games if they want to and to Actually collect a new army if they decide to stick with the The hobby and with with gdub, right, right? Which is because that's a percentage of people won't of course, right? Like they just remove some Percentage, even if it's single digit of their community by this type of announcement. Yeah, absolutely But I do appreciate like it is worth mentioning that that was the one Correct choice in this entire move was the amount of time previously when this has been announced We got basically no warning it'd be like they'd be doing it now and saying like in July last night Yeah, like this is on last night by your kids now and you have a couple months before it's gone forever. Yeah, right Yeah, so It gives them a year to still play the army to still have fun at tournaments if they want to still be around And and to be part of the legal ruleset and everything like that So though they're in for for that full year, which is nice It is a it is the retirement tour It is the this is your last chance to catch elo before they're gone forever, right? It's sad Um But it's something right and so it was a good move Like that was one like I'm not there's a lot of negative here but having the storm cast the boc and the bonus letters have one year of Legend support is the correct answer. Obviously the little guys. I think they're just cutting them, but the But the the the armies the things that are armies actually having a year where you can play them is good Uh Two factions beast cast monsters as far as number of the storm cast internals Miss sacrosanct and warrior chambers are getting free to download digital battle tones. Yes. So let's play until summer of 2025 Yep, so Okay Good in less in less events want to make them available longer Yeah, sure. Sure. Um, but the point is is that like that was One correct choice amidst a sea Of bad choices, but at least there is a little buoy Floating out amongst the stormy sea Okay, of like whoever was the person that made that decision that is was was very correct And and and thankful and I'm thankful for them to do so Uh, but all in all the problem here that this really creates is because of the poor way This was communicated because of all the consternation it caused what it did Importantly was shatter something that is very hard to regain luxury companies like this who make toys Right that we all invest our heart and souls into Rely on trust that we have a relationship with the company. It's a deeper relationship than you do with most companies. Okay Yep, you don't have this relationship with mcdonald's You might like mcdonald's a lot Okay Like that's you might really dig mcdonald's you might go there quite frequently But if they change something you're gonna be like mcdonald's is so stupid And either you'll keep going there or you'll just go to a different restaurant. Okay for the most part This is something deeper and trust is really hard to regain And having people feel like their models now have a very limited Time frame whether that's true or not like they could go another 20 years without making any major changes to the line Right that could happen. I'm not saying it will I'm just saying it could Right where like you could imagine that it's like 2040 is the next time we really see any kind of major Cut right and they just keep producing these again Yeah, sure And all we all we get in between now and then is like that basically the other section of this where they retire a couple of other fine Cast models or something like that Okay But That's possible But why would anyone believe that's to be the case because you've shattered the trust because you weren't transparent here Um The the reality of like what you by by executing this in the fashion they did They not only hit people's identity without realizing how serious it was Without putting in the proper work to make sure that they they eased people through proper change management They shattered a lot of trust in the community and that is a very hard thing to rebuy So that's the end of my rant There we go. That's all of my thoughts on this after Can I can I take us into a a fun tinfoil hat theory time? Sure Okay I'm gonna invite everybody to put on your tinfoil hats. This may not actually be reality But I think that I I put a lot of thought into what's going on Um and what has happened with the line If you've been a watcher of the show for any amount of time, um as we got our, um second Um We got our vanguard expansion and then we went into 2.0 Um and we began to get some duplicate models like duplicate her outdoors and stuff like that One of the things that I began to become very allowed about in the development of the stormcast line Was that one thing that I thought that was happening Was that they were in the process of preparing us To um to move in a development way So the reason why I was suggesting that they were bloating the lines And they and I think that this legitimately was the trajectory of the game Or the trajectory of the product line as a as a as its own independent thing Is that um, I think that the bloat was intentional the duplicate roles were intentional because My gut was that the trajectory that they were trying to reproduce was the space marine trajectory Such that the product lines would have had duplicate Sculpts for the individual chambers or whatever You would have had a book for either either storm host or chamber So you'd have like a book for warrior chamber stormcast or you'd have a book for like The hammers of sigmar storm host or whatever where there would be some amount of shared models between the lines and then some amount of Models that are isolated into specific lines, which is why we had like you can't tell me that that the veritat The the lord veritat wasn't just an alternate night or a lord castellant re-sculpt Sure. I mean like look at these two. Look at them. Look at them. Yes. Yes Yeah, like they like it is like you are in the same space um And they just renamed them, but I I firmly believe that the trajectory Of the storm hosts where the storm cast line was originally to go with with an addition of bloat And then once they have a like a critical mass and this would be good change management Right go with bloat until they hit a critical mass and then split it off into individual product lines Like some some shared models some Yes, as sporadic has just mentioned they there was a time where they had the upgrade packs remember when they tried that when they Had there's right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah Um, and we began to see this when individual heroes were being developed for the individual storm hosts And so I think that I think that there was truly A trajectory towards this a plan towards this in second edition Um, and I have some like circumstantial evidence from conversations with some executives Overgains where people made comments to them about that and they expressed a desire They dearly wish that they could do that And this is like the 2019 2020 route and I think what happened is is that mid-second edition? They realized that their brand couldn't support Splitting off a bunch of product lines like that Of stormcast like that that the market couldn't actually sustain that and so I think the stormcast aren't space rings. They're not as popular That's what comes on to us players don't like that That are a a os players almost every person who plays 40k in any way has a space marine army. I have a space marine army Sure. Okay. Sure. Yeah, I barely play 40k right Yep, that is not true for stormcast now. I have like Like you have two so we're gonna have stormcast armies. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. But so your point stands I honestly think that their trajectory was that they were going to be Developing it and spinning it off to do a bunch of books Um, because they wanted to reproduce what was happening there And I think their market research and their understanding the community finally prevailed where they understood that this game is not that other game And so they had a problem on their hands where they had a worked were, you know, they had a battle Then with 70 plus war scrolls It with a lot of duplicated roles And I think that when they began when the then the new round of sculpting came in with third edition They decided to pivot hard. So rather than use that as the launch right of hallowed knights Right as the as the heart of that launch in third edition Um As the first of these new books to spin off I think what they did decided to do was to pivot the line Completely. Yeah. Um, and and with that pivot it was going to require a calling of units. And so in that sense This may be a one-off for what happened to stormcast. I'm not trying to provide an apology for gw You know, I don't do that But I wonder if this is not In fact a a product of bad bad product management Of the line and a change of direction And that's what we're seeing with at least a stormcast portion of the colon Um, I suspect that that's probably what happened Um, and again, it doesn't make it right But it but it is the fruit of the product line management And we are now suffering the consequences of that But hopefully something like this won't happen again. Yeah, absolutely Um, zanben says why is having multiple units feeling the same real bad because then people don't take one of them And you keep swapping around because as you try to make one good the other one because if one is even Incrementally microscopically better than the other everybody just takes that one. Nobody takes the other one And then that with that kit doesn't like that kid didn't just sit there or whatever until Well, maybe maybe not selling is largely to do with releases and stuff like that But it just it it doesn't get played and so it becomes extra stuff And so yes, there's probably some diminishment of sales on the long tail Although most kits sell when they initially come out like I would guess I don't know what percentage of the models sales happen within the first like three months of its release But I would bet it's a majority percentage by the way. I bet it takes years to equal what you sell in the first three months um but the But the point is is that you it also makes it harder to balance the book because then you have to like keep shifting things around Like the game just works better when you have sort of identified roles that things want to Want to fill and like things they want to be this is your thing. There's lots of roles, you know, you can you can get there but um But it just works better when you have individual stuff right so but I agree with you tom I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think that history is that that's Obviously, that's all theory craft, but I think it's exactly correct So that's that's my theory as to why the theory time um that that's why We have what we have and and and and why that discontinuation is different than what we saw with beast of chaos Like it is something but it was also something that was very different than the rest of the calling along Um, and I think hopefully it will be a one-off. Yeah Um Keith it's not that bad, but it's like because they're they the way that they value uh Inclusion is used in x percentage of lists and so on and so forth So like I but my understanding is by their competitive metric You're probably talking about only like 30 to 40 percent of of se Worst goals ever actually got used to the percentage that they're they set for an internal balanced target So that's which is a problem obviously not as bad as you're describing was still pretty terrible um Yeah, so I mean what what else can we say about the model calling except uh If you're upset or sad or angry that your army your thing You know part of what you were what you enjoyed playing and what you enjoyed being on the table got cut um You're not wrong to feel those feelings it super sucks period um And they it was only made worse by the fact that they handled this so incredibly poorly From basically top to bottom in how this was done with the only exception being the amount of time they gave players to To do that to actually still play with the stuff um But otherwise just a real just a real terrible set of decisions Uh 80 percent of the storm cast that I play with I have painted play with and built and play with Are sacrosanct? They just are I love I hated the prior storm cast 1.0 sculpts and 2.0 or 3.0 were okay But I love the robes. I love the flowy cloth. I loved all that in my in my storm cast models and so Like this hits me hard. It's just it's not the first time this has happened All right, Hades I earned Hades like I'll take it. Yeah, so at any rate I know it's not a happy thing But uh, but hit like at this point if you haven't already a lot of you out there watching so, you know In the end We're gonna have to figure out what the new world looks like and it's going to be up to them to try and Whatever way they can to earn our trust back But if I was them if I was advising them, what should you going forward? I would be crafting a marketing doc that actually responds to this they won't they won't They don't kick up controversy. They see it as bad But if it was me, I would absolutely put out a response to this Um, and I would be tackling it head-on. Yes, and I would be clear about what the future of war cry is What's getting resculpted? Uh Using these things as replacements and other models. I like I would correct all these previous mistakes I would pull the handbrake so hard You can't save all of this like and and by the by I would figure out whatever Senior manager has made the dumb decision that things can't overlap and fire them That's that simple that person should not be employed at that company anymore period I don't know what else to say It's the wrong choice. It's a terrible business decision. It makes no sense at all I cannot picture the business case that says that makes sense So somebody should be Somebody should be can't it's that simple. You should not be employed by this company anymore That is the level of screw-up you have done So That's it. That's it. And that's all Okay, cool with that Let's turn to some happier news Uh Well, it's not a board member because I don't think board members are getting that that down in detailed I mean, you did just call for sepuku for for whatever, uh, whatever manager Um did that but I didn't say they should like end their life like they can go live so they can continue living Okay, exile. Sorry human life is valuable. They can continue living. They didn't do that But they should not work at that company anymore You make a decision that bad You don't you don't work there anymore The fact that you're in management shouldn't shield you from that if a frontline Associate did something that stupid that made that many people that angry they'd be fired five seconds after it happened Yeah Like if you're in charge if you're a manager then the buck stops with you That's how it works Okay Great cool Uh, let's move on to the next topic. Let's move on to some happier topics Uh, because you know, one of the things that was the most sad about this Uh, was that Everything else for 4.0 Is looking really fun and good I hate that this came out and just like Put a turd in the punch bowl for lack of a better term like I hate to use that term I agree disgusting, but that's what it is I agree. It's so much looks so good Yeah, like everything every other article they've put out has been really good And and gotten me really excited about the game. They just Whatever, okay, we've said enough about it moving on Moving on to other things. We got the anatomy of a war scroll tom So we got to look at the war scrolls and what they're going to consist of We got our liberator war scroll obviously, we can see the change over to health And uh, you can see crit mortal crit mortal So there you go Uh We also got um, a clarity that spell casting Seemingly will be using the 2d6 roll Yes So before we get into that though, what do you think of these liberators? Like what what do you what do you think of this here tom? Like what what what what's your what you take on on our on our on our updated libs? I mean a base 3 plus saves pretty good Pretty good um, I mean like I It suggests to me that the trajectory that we have been on of power Seems to remain at least the same for killiness for survivability if this is your core stock standard troop Well, that's the question That's I think that's assuming facts not in evidence Okay, maybe what I mean by that is Maybe a lot of the game was baselined against liberators previously, but that made liberators feel underwhelming What if the game's not baselined against liberators anymore in a previous article? They talked about the increased variance amongst the units, right? So what if this is like a good war scroll? What I mean by that is like weapon profile wise Okay, what if your goblins are like fives and fives? Yeah, I mean then it's even more problematic honestly um, like it's a real issue then because what that says to me is That you will never kill liberators Maybe maybe I mean If they're on fives for fives no rend right 40 goblins again on fives for fives for rend will not touch five liberators Could be I don't know might be that they might be that they don't You're assuming they don't have some other ability Right like their ability could be like overwhelming mob So like at the end of the turn if they're in combat with somebody that Has a lesser unit strength in them or control score than them they take You know d3 mortal wounds or something or or d6, you know, whatever stuff could happen Like my point is is that they could they could be attacking this in other ways, right? I I wouldn't assume this is the baseline of the whole game is my point like we don't we don't know that could be could be not Sure sure and all I'm simply saying is is that keeping them with this By the way liberators should also be like 150 points for five of these dudes Sure, sure, right like that could be the new baseline where it's like there really are the super elite You know lightning thunder gods they were supposed to be and we actually point them accordingly and make them hyper elite Right, that's another way it could go. So, you know There you go like like there my point is is that just looking at the stats wouldn't be enough No, I agree with that like we would certainly need to know points to compare It just it raises a flag for me is what i'm saying regarding the survivability and the killiness Like if like either they are an elite troop truly and if they're an elite then man I wonder what the rest is pointing storm cast will look like like storm cast used to have the problem Only being able to put like 20 models down at 1,000 points, right? And this would certainly reinforce that if that was the case. Yeah, I mean I so Time will tell I'll say I like the crit mortal ability Let me just talk about this usr because this is obviously our usr is here, right? Crit mortal when you roll a six Do a critical hit, right? So it's so liberators hit hard for basic troops, especially given their crit mortal ability one of seven universal weapon abilities Good seven. We got a number I like seven. That's a low number. That's a memorable weapon abilities. Not universal. Yeah, I know they said there's I understand I'm just saying that's Correct number of abilities so far is what I am saying Sure, sure. Okay. It has a simple effect an unmodified six to hit counts as a critical hit and this ability and this Turns into mortal damage. Okay. Let me tell you why I like this because we didn't name it devastating blows Okay, we named it Chris. It it it identifies the thing that it's doing it does what it says on the 10 That's right yep If we're gonna have these usr's I like them being very like Self-explanatory where the thing is the thing because assumingly the base rules tell you that a critical hit is when you roll a Six to hit like I'm assuming that's in the core rules, right? So that's a piece of information. You already know And it's mortal. So wait, which one did this what what did this do like you read them once it's going to be Locked in your head, right and very easy to understand. So you don't need to remember like wait, which one is devastating strikes versus Banishing blows or something like that, right, you know, so so very clear right yep So, okay, cool. Good. I like that. This is a very simple war scroll though as they point out By the way, I also like infantry champion, you know, so there's clearly it's more of our sort of key wording stuff going on down here Yep, both Both faction keywords and then rule keywords down here Yep The other thing to talk about is obviously objective control We had a good idea. This was going to be coming. So and then the stalwart defenders So like the way that your objective control works is you've got five liberators They each are one It's five total if they're Uh, contesting an objective holy within friendly territory. It goes up to eight Which is awesome Which is awesome. Yeah, it's not three percent. It's three to the score Okay, and that and that's what I was going to say. Is it eight or 20? No, it's it's eight. It's very clearly explained that it's eight Okay The point of this being and I'll tell you like they they clearly explain that it's the to the to the score which is different than the characteristic, but The reason I like that is because We're going to see it again in just a moment in the in the when we do the the command abilities article Which let's face it that one's going to be some real some real spicy goodness because that command ability article has me real excited But what I'm seeing here tom is a bunch of changes from exponential to Uh additive to additive. Yeah exactly Yep, so like Used to be it was much harder to mess with your control score without saying like every model counts as two. Okay. Well, that's like Exponential that's more complicated. Yes, it's multiplicative, right? Whereas this is additive on the on the top Right, you go from five to eight not five to ten or five to fifteen Right, so you have much more fine control when you're working with additive bonuses And we'll see it again. We'll see this thing again in a moment Okay, yeah all right, and then What are we just ignoring elect man? I'm sorry. Okay Uh, oh the other thing is Uh Oh, yeah, are we just gonna No more. I'm not sure elect man. Tell me what we're ignoring. That's fine. Um The other thing I wanted to talk about with these dudes and what I expect we'll see Uh is I I somebody asked in the comments. Are we going to see less weapon options? I hope so I really hope so just that's the weapon they use. It's called like It's called goblin stabby weapons or whatever. I don't care. You know, I mean my point is like it doesn't Inclusive I don't need No, yeah, we mentioned it infantry keyword is now a thing. Yes, we mentioned it Infantry is a keyword Assumingly cavalry all that kind of stuff, you know, yeah So yes, and which is great like we'll see up scroll where we know how it interacts in a minute when we go to the command section Yep, so Yes, I was gonna talk about it there and yes bravery is gone Bravery is dead Bravery was always stupid it neither never mattered or mattered way too much and it would have been bad if it mattered a lot Kill it kill it with fire. I don't need it Okay So good Fine and I yes, I also like that we don't care like two hammers or hammer and shield like this is the weapon profile Whatever go nuts Build what looks cool By the way, which is how I've always built my models. Anyways, I have never once given even the remotest care Like wizzy wig and me are on different planets It's not even close I have just looked at a model and went what looks cool Cool, that's the thing. I'm gonna build and then when I set the unit down. I say what it is. It's this thing with this Period. It's on my list I have never cared. I will never care. You can't make me care. I don't want to care Done you were saying uh I don't even know what I was going to go with other than yes, correct. Vince is never ever ever cared No, um, what I would what I'm interested in is where they end up with stuff like Like they do show some nuance here, right between the great hammer and Hammer Yeah, sure like that you can have it's not that you can't have a special weapon in a unit Sure, that's fun and neat, right? You can have a little bit of it My point is just for like the bulk of your troops just make it the weapon Well, for me who was for example building zangor this week and we're like I need two mutants and I need four Great weapons and I need for the room and I have a champ and a banner bear and a Hornblower and then for the last troop I need to choose either a shield or dual weapons, right? Like Like going through that. I just wonder like how to what degree like where are they going to cut that line? right between between Weapon these extra weapon profile stuff and not or the another great example is something like thunderers Sure, like those types of weapon teams like are we ever going back to the crazy or are we simplifying? Like I could see it be where some things where the unit where it's like defined by that still has some different options I mean thunderers are just a 40k unit that's knocked their way into uh Into into aos So, you know, I don't know like it could be very much But that's a that's a 40k thing uh the Uh, let's but I want to go back to some comments here Uh Okay, um Gareth says I'm banned. That's fine. I accept Gareth Uh, all right, and then arrested at the Waffle House says I do I will destroy whizzy wig. You're absolutely right I'm gonna fight that war right beside your brother Warpstone and joyer said have you ever magnetized a weapon option even just for fun? Hell no Hell no I never and I never will and it's a giant waste of time. What an sanity I put my model to repaint it and play it. I'm not not carrying around nonsense My storm fiends are all magnetized so I can swap all their little weapons stuff with the k the cables and everything are magnetized It's delightful. Yeah, absolutely insane and dumb Whatever makes you happy like jokes aside if magnetizing things makes you happy because you like to have it perfectly represented The way you want go nuts, but no, I would never I would never life is precious and short Uh, I got things to do Um, this is the guy with this thing and this is the guy with this thing My storm fiends are just like a menagerie of weapons that I just put on them because I thought it looked cool Okay Okay I did I did build a storm strike chariot This week and I felt bad when I saw the worst wolf because I was like, oh, there is a difference between the bow and the spear Like I knew there would be But but in my you know, I was like, oh, it'll be fine I'll just build this one because I like the look of it and then and then there is a difference and so now I'm sad This one has this is my storm strike chariot as you can see on my list It has the bow Where's the bow? On his back in the thing somewhere in the chariot. It's down on the ground. He'll pick it up when he needs to shoot How about you don't worry about it? It has the bow I will not be making attacks with a spear. I will be making attacks with a bow. It's very simple Okay There we go Yeah, a spear is just a big arrow. Thank you big beefy. That's exactly right. That's basically the same thing Okay Cool Then we have our phase coloration and this I really like this I know that there's like I saw when they when they talked about the color coding and we'll talk about the commands and stuff This is like a weird take I saw a bunch of people jump again So like all the phases are color coded and you'll see it with the These abilities here that they're they're color coded as well And they have the appropriate like icons for what type of ability they are nice combination of ux there I saw a bunch of people suddenly jump in like just just parachute in Okay, and start complaining about colorblind people And I'm like first of all, there's way more people complaining here than are actually colorblind. That's number one okay That's so like I'm curious about the level of white knighting going on here but For people who are legitimately colorblind, which is completely fair That's why they still labeled everything With the phase you're supposed to use it And where it gets used. So you don't have to actually reference the colors at all They still say where the thing happens Now I would have liked it if on the passive abilities They were a little more clear. That's where I think they fell down Right Because it like they didn't actually didn't add the extra text for all the active abilities. They have it very clearly labeled Yeah, okay um But it's like But all of that hold on i'm not done yet. Okay tom How are our abilities right now? They're a block of text Yeah, I know I understand I get that That just like have when you're supposed to use them Somewhere in the text Okay Like yeah, it's still a way better world than it was before because the timing of the thing Is written at minimum at the top or right away when it's happening So like you have an icon you have a color you have text This is the ux holy trinity when you use all three In synergy To then create a positive ux experience While still remaining Like wcag double a compliant Okay so um Good, I don't like I don't understand I'm so confused. It's definitely an upgrade period And then how much of an upgrade it is Is gonna vary because yeah for people who have colorblind challenges, which is real I'm not minimizing that in any way They needed to still like be very clear with their labeling Yeah I agree with that. Um, I have some questions Um, just simply about uh, and like it's not something to be in answered here But it's how this some of this stuff interfaces with what we have seen already And so like I already have FAQ questions about these war scrolls in light of The new command point system for example, that's been revealed Yeah But we can talk about that Sure But this is a big scroll. This is a big poppy scroll, right? We're talking about that here We've got we can see the keywords. We've got a spell on here. He's got his invocation him to gosh very powerful You know He can he can It says your hero phase Yes, your hero. Can you can you command point ability to cast that in their hero phase? Uh, oh because it says your hero phase, right Because it says your hero phase right like it's coded to that I don't know. I would assume the core rules will explain that whenever we see them, right? We'll we'll get to that in a minute Um, but you know, I'm I'm sure that like I'm sure that that's probably explained Um, we have a rampage here and I like though. I really like the key wording here or the coding of once per turn army So, you know that you know, this is a thing you get one rampage army wide. Yeah, exactly You get one rampage, right? So that's cool and yeah, like Good stuff like Nagash certainly seems like he's pretty potent He's weak saucin melee, but he's a hell of a spellcaster So and he's a big tough dude, you know 18 wounds on a three up save like seems good to me Okay, and there's no and he's got a five up here This is where we also see like wizard nine, which I assume means he can cast nine spells Like that's traditionally been Doesn't feel like that much of a stretch given that's what Nagash is always done. He can fly. He has a five up ward Okay Cool. Yep Yep, also, he's a war master And he's a war master. Yep and a monster for whatever that means um The I'm interested to see what is going what it's going to mean Uh For what was the thing that I was looking at? Oh, um the fact that both his hit and wound values are only threes Um where previously I think we had some twos Um, I think that that's significant because that could if we have gods that are only hitting and wounding on threes I think that that could be potentially indicative Of design power direction moving forward like that means maybe Maybe maybe it's just because he's not a melee guy. I mean like yeah, he's a god, but he's like of nerd He's a nerd. I I understand that. He's like king of the nerds But this dude's a nerd Okay, like is he more king of the nerds than teclis? But they're both king of the nerds They they they can have a little fight over who's who's the actual true king of the nerds, but like you know if if But the the fact that he would have that melee profile Like I wouldn't be shocked if just a pretty good elf Had a better melee profile than him as far as like hitting wound goes Because he's just a nerd. That's like a a marshal Paragon, right? Like sure. He's also the nerd the size of a building. I don't care. Who cares. Why would that effect is hitting wound? Because maybe he is a bigger sword All right, okay Well, I mean like at that point then you could say the same thing about giants A giant should only be on fours or threes or whatever. Yeah, I'm with that I'm completely with that I'm not yep sounds right to me They're just like big dumb idiots Like yes, they should absolutely be on crappy numbers or they should just do like massive damage when they connect, right? That's always been the thing I argued for that forever ago and we got halfway there the last son's book They just didn't make the damage enough, right? um So yeah, I mean, I thought it was interesting the staff of power is just to his casting roles right And then he can dodge miscast, but it's not to like his ability to unbind or whatever assuming that that's still a thing Oh, yeah, we don't we haven't seen anything about unbinding yet. So we don't know what that even means Sure. I mean like assuming that it's still around, but yes, it's it's whatever's happening You ain't getting the plus two to it and then the I love the the the new battle damaged which has replaced the clearly the monster table, right? That's what this is So if it has 10 or more damage points you subtract three from its power level I assume its power level is his is his wizard level down there. I'm just gonna yeah, I'm gonna make that logical inference so okay And I agree with rick who said reducing the amount of twos and twos I think would improve the game. I agree Do you think that we'll see different versions of the gash for the different armies? I think it'll all probably be the same scroll just with different keywords for the armies I don't think they'll change him. He's the same guy It's the same avatar or whatever, you know Yeah so The last thing I'll say on the war scrolls is Tom we mission accomplished, buddy. We kept it We kept the game Guests choose your fate. I love how they also let them use like cups or containers just in case somebody doesn't have two hands Right. It checks out. Yeah, like the average number of hands is less than two If you have two hands, you have a higher than average number of hands um But like The average you've correct. Yes um But that's why I love uh, that's I like I love silly little mini games like this when they occur on on, you know Super powerful characters like negash That's fine Uh ramiam. I think power level is just his wizard level. That's seems like probably a logical thing Ie how many spells you can cast? Yeah, I assume he goes from like nine spells to six spells or something Like I'm just inferring because that's the clearly the monster replacement And on his current monster chart like you beat him up and he cast less spells. So I'm just assuming that's the same thing that happens So, yeah, I love the flexibility of invocation of negash as well Yeah Oh my god arrested at waffle house got a hand at him. I know so good. Yeah, so good Amazing Yeah, so Okay, cool. Yeah, that's negash and that was the war scrolls like I mean want to see more show us more Um, they mentioned in in this article that we're going to get into like the army breakdowns soon Uh, so I hope we get like three war scrolls per army breakdown at least I hope yeah base troop Like an elite troop and then a hero or something. Yeah, sure. That's how it should be. Yes uh Yeah, that's a good point assistant ref. You're not wrong No, or if I'm a thrive queen, I'm really I stand a great chance Uh, I am large and in charge if I'm if I'm a thrive queen So watch out for your thrive queen opponents everybody. They're gonna be they're gonna be tricking you um, okay Let's move over to command points because command stuff whatever commands in general because this was uh, this was the spice right here Yeah, um, like I'm I'm glad they dropped this today so we can talk about it. Yeah. No, this one was really good. Okay um Okay so Command points as we hinted to previously command points are a tightly controlled resource Each player gets four command points at the start of the battle round to spend over the course of that entire round There are 10 different commands to issue Any command points you have been spent by the end of the battle round are gone forever And then we know that the underdog gains one extra command point Uh over the battle round and we know that you can gain an extra one if you have Less auxiliaries than your opponent Okay, so that would mean the maximum you could get If it would be six per round Or per round. Yes. Sorry. Yes, which last over both you and your opponent's turn No, which is which is currently basically where we were at two per turn. It's a similar style Going second gave you three obviously and something like that and there are things that did extra commands We'll have to see they've said there's nothing in the game that gives you know extra command points How much in the game though lets you like double issue or triple issue because that's effectively a free command point Or like issue without issue without using a command or something like that Did all of that stuff go as well? If so then this is a much tighter ecosystem like buy a lot Right. Yeah So Well, we'll have to see we'll have to see that that all remains to be said. Hopefully this means total eclipse took took a walk. Hmm Yeet it into the sun Okay Sun Hey, yes, and the underdog is the person who at the start of the round has less victory points first thing to discuss Uh, so tom you get an extra command point for being at less victory points Do you think would would this make you want a sandbag? Never Okay Because giving up victory points is giving up Potentially your your total points for the tournament depending on how the tournaments work And so i'm never going to sandbag if My battle tactic points are counting into my total right like i'm not i'm not going to throw any anything Um knowing that it could potentially affect my rank in the event as a whole So i'm just not going to do it. But again, that's going to depend on how to build scoring sheets Okay Okay, what if that's not factored in let's assume it's not let's let's let's use hay Let's imagine we all live in haywows world. It's all just win loss win loss draw, right? That's it. Yeah, yeah Uh I'm still not going to say and I may double I may take a double and give up the battle tactic Which you're inherently giving up points when you when you choose to double. I may double I know i'm going to seal the game like if i'm going to basically lock the game up Um, and I know it won't affect my final standing I could I could give that up, but I don't know that i'm ever going to intentionally like underscore in around And to try to become the underdog Yeah, like it's to me. It's not worth this command point Okay, um in the in the current economy as I've seen it up up until now. It's good. Don't get me wrong Like I I don't want to like I don't want to minimize that but I'm never going to To try to game the system that way Yeah, fair enough Yeah, I think it's interesting. We'll have to we'll have to look and see exactly how that that works Um assistant ref said gw command points are strictly limited also gw get four to six for about around That's pretty tightly limited especially because as we'll see not all commands are one command point anymore Uh, and so like that's that's it's a it's a thing um ookey-doke um city strobe said semi-specific question. Do you feel the balance around command points will balance weirdly With how holy havoc is played. I assume the rules would be updated. We also assume you have input on those um I have no idea We'll have to see the full rules and then I'm sure tom and I will both work with reed and steve and everything to Make sure that havoc is yeah a line inherently. I don't think anything here is on um, I don't think anything here is on Are incompatible with holy wars is what I would say Um, because basically what you would have with holy wars is you would just develop a new module Um for how these things work like they have given us the technology for for doing like narrative. It's a battle pack And it uses these These modules and or that it uses the whole the holy wars command module rather than just the command command point module. Yep Okay, so reactions Uh, you declare an ability you're tell your opponent which ability is being used if the ability has declare instructions or resolve them at this step You use reactions Starting with the active player the players alternate using any abilities with an appropriate reaction timing and then you resolve the effect This is very important tom because it's going to come into your this this part right here Is going to answer a question that you you had okay Is like this is this text is Meaningful, right? Yep. It seems very obvious, but it could there's a could be a lot of nuance in there Obviously, this is more magic like You know like yeah, I'm going to put this on the stack responses You know I'm going to attempt to resolve this Okay, so they show all out attack and all defense. This is the command point cost These are still one each. They're still the same things. They were used by so reaction You declared an attack ability or reaction opponent declared an attack ability. Okay cool So you use the attack ability Put a plus one to hit you use the uh Opponent declares an attack you use plus one to save I'm curious as to how much other plus one to save will still be around Like is safe stacking dead. Is this like our only source of generic plus one to save could be They could like they could eliminate a lot of that from the game Like I hope mystic shield is like a six up board or something like that, right? Like I hope that they they just mystic shield exist I don't know it may not but it's also in in kind of the core g'site guys to what aos is It's been in every addition and so I don't know if it's achieved sacred, you know cal status or not, but yeah, uh, I mean I think that like I agree with you It should like if they if they keep it it should be like a six up word or whatever, right? But like my hope would be just got the plus one to save stuff effects out of the game just got it Okay, like these should be almost none. Okay And you know if this is it then it becomes very very very meaningful, right? And maybe a few scattered abilities that are on like specific war scrolls in specific armies that are meant to be heavy armor, right? Okay, that's fine Uh, okay They need to be more clear on the order of events because when do effects happen if you have an effect and then a reaction what happens well You funny story Declare the thing and if it has any instructions then you resolve them So you would do everything that resolves on the declare step and then once it's done the active player Uses their reactions and then any resolve effects happen after that So like assumingly all the we haven't seen the base abilities yet, but assumingly they use that structure and they're clear So but I mean, yeah, it raises questions about and this is the one that I was talking about about like forward to victory reaction with the chart like the I mean, I know I'm jumping ahead for you, but um, it's relevant here, which is A lot of the what people have been stating they're assuming and I did the same thing That when you declare your forward to victory, which is the reaction to charge and where you re-roll your charge roll um, I was assuming like everybody else that The that you're having to make that decision to re-roll before you roll at the first time right which may not be true Which may not be true And the reason why is to to jump back to the using abilities thing where it says declare the ability It says its ability has a declare instructions Resolve them at this step Vince pointed out to me that it very well could be the case That in the description of making a charge when you declare a charge you roll that charge in the declaration Right, and if you do then the reaction could be after the result has already been made correct So like if like you could imagine a sequence like this We haven't seen the base charge ability yet, but like but let's say so we don't know how they written it like declare You choose a unit and you declare they will charge roll 2d6. This is your charge roll. That's the that's the declare step Right you do that you roll Use reactions. Okay step two You declared a charge ability. I didn't like my role. I will use forward to victory I reroll it right and resolve that effect and then the effect Then of the charge base ability to resolve the effect The effect part is probably You move the distance you rolled of the charge roll Yeah, and actually garith is right like when you look at negash's water scroll Like the the rolling 2d6 to cast a spell is part of the declaration Yeah of casting a spell And so there is precedent for this with casting a spell It's very likely that there's going to be precedent for it with charging Meaning that you you will likely have the knowledge of the charge result before you react to it with a reroll Yep, so it's just we have to see those base abilities But yes, well, we're still I think a lot of people were assuming facts not in evidence saying you have to call this Before you make your charge roll like no that we haven't seen the base ability We don't know how it's structured and this is like this is pretty clear as long as they actually stick to this format, right? I do my things. I complete these steps I cast the spell. I tap the mana. I put it on the stack That's what happens before everybody else gets to respond, right? And then people respond and make reactions and then have no reactions Spell resolves e tbs comes into play whatever happens, right? And there's a question of can you like countercharge and then respond to your countercharge with a Afford of victory and the answer is is if you have the command probably Yeah, yeah, I mean like it seemed to be the case Yeah, unless again, there's some kind of other thing. We're not aware of obviously not having seen all of the corals like, yeah, right so Okay new commands Rally Declare pick a friendly unit that is not in combat and use this ability. That's all that's in the declare step, right? Yeah, and then so then you know assumingly reactions would happen if they if there is any that exist Um, oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. Tom. Yes. Thank you. Garrett said no a unit can't use two commands in a phase They did say that. Thank you. Thank you. There you go I had forgotten that that was in there. Okay Good talk So Uh rally effect you make six rally rolls for on a d6 for each four plus you receive one rally point rally points can be spent Either heal a unit heal one a unit which is assumingly just you heal one health of the unit Or you can spend a number of rally points equal to the health characteristic of that unit to return a slain model to that unit You can spend rally points in any combination of the above unspent rally points are then lost I love this. This is such a better rally mechanic Agreed and it and I get such a feel like it's such a good feel good Especially when you're dealing with multi wound models like man the number of times that I couldn't put models like hort like Hexrace back into a unit, right? Because I had I had an I had I had a wounded model and because I had a wounded model I couldn't put new models back And so I love the way that they they split the baby on these abilities for rally It means yes, it's very hard to rally high wound units like haiti said. I kind of like this rally change But does this mean you can't bring back units with? Uh greater than six health. Yes, unless you have some kind of ability to affect this rally roll in some way, which the nice part about what this is on the linear rather than Uh geometric here is you could imagine a unit that's like if this unit makes a rally roll Roll one additional dice. Yeah, or a roll two additional dice or something like that, right? and so it It hasn't like whereas if all you can do is change it to a five up or a four up like we have previously it's just You just the the numbers you get back just skyrocket, right? Yep, and so whereas here it's much more controlled I like this a lot. This is actually a very reasonably well written rally And not only that like there's not just one or two levers here to pull There's actually a number of levers because I can imagine abilities that increase the number of dice I can imagine abilities that reduce the target number and I can imagine abilities that increase the healing number You know like all of that are like levers that they could pull sure here um For these calculations, which is exciting. Yep. So there's lots of different ways. They could mess with it That's exactly right Now uh haiti said so in terms of commands, what does use mean? Does it mean benefit from issue or receive? Well, there's no more issuing or receiving because that was the other thing they clarified in this article all of that is gone You just Use the command You're the active player. You use the thing. There's no more like you have to heroes don't issue. Nobody issues. It just happens Yeah, it's just a thing that's done There's no more you have to have a hero or a champion or be a lead or have a totem or yada yada yada yada yada No range, right? You just do it no bubble management Okay, love it. Love it. Yep. I mean like yes, you know rob complained a little bit about the fact that this is lowering the skill floor And i'm okay with that no or the skill floor is like the ceiling would be He means the top end. This is a top end decision to properly balance your models But his frustration was this the problem is is that this lowers the floor because you're not having to manage ranges anymore Like yeah, we're saying the same thing, but he said ceiling at any rate. I watched the video too. Um Regardless, I love it. I love that for new players. They can just be like I I have four of these things to do I'm gonna do this one. Yes, correct. Like yes, go do that. We don't need to measure anything. Just do it yeah, and I Uh, yeah, I don't know that I agree with this take like yes, I'm I suppose it's factually true But I don't think it's a bad thing I guess is what I would say Um, but he had a lot of other thoughts in that video that I did agree with. Um You know like Bubble management was never a skill testing thing that I think was a positive aspect of the game That's that's what I'll say Okay It was always a feel bad. Yeah, and then redeploy love this change enemy movement phase Pick a friendly unit that is not in combat to use this ability effect Each model in that unit can move up to d6 inches that move cannot pass through or end Within the combat range of an enemy unit So cool, you can read it. You just it doesn't have to do with you're just doing it at the end of their their phase uh after they've taken all of their actions And the the active players taken all of theirs. You're now you you get to use all of yours They've moved all their people you say cool. I'll redeploy this guy Yeah, uh, this is actually like amazing because it doesn't check range anymore Like did a unit move within nine inches of the redeploy none of that And so stuff that is historically like four inch move awesome Give gives me another way to get those grave garden to combat, right? Like sure they're redeploying every enemy every phase We're moving up d6. Let's do this So love it. Yep Interestingly, it also counts as a move run. Did you catch that? I did right? I did Because it has the run keyword Then it's going to stop you from doing the counter charge later in the turn because you charge ability and charge abilities can't be used If you've ran in the same turn. So like little clever things like that. I I'm enjoying that I that I catch, right? So okay All right, now let's get to the the cont controversy. Okay, let's get to the ones that were the hot the new ones I don't know that these are really controversy. Were they I don't know people Some people thought the sky was falling when they saw covering fire um, so first thing to state is they've said that the the Shooting range just kind of came down in this edition or whatever, right? They've they've stated that we'll see how true that is But that's that's what they've said And so covering fire enemy shooting phase pick a friendly unit that is not in combat to use this ability Resolve shooting attacks for that unit, but all the attacks must target the nearest Visible enemy unit and you must subtract one from the hit rolls for those attacks Um, okay I love it. I like you know, I I love the idea of my iron cloud shooting twice per turn. Sure. Like per round. Let me say it that way. Yeah. Yeah, I mean What like how good this is will be a lot based on What does the shooting look like in the new edition? Okay? So, you know, like if shooting a shorter range if shooting has Uh, you know, if there's like basically no mortal damage or whatever on shooting anymore, which is what should happen Then like a lot of things change, right? Um, but you there is counter play to it obviously because you they can only shoot the nearest visible enemy unit. So yeah, that's fine. Yeah Yeah, and I just wanted to hit is obviously a significant It is a significant penalty when you're doing an off turn Especially depending on if you know, how much things like positive to hits are gone, right? And what do base hit numbers look like? Like you could imagine the iron cloud having a lot of force to hit right and Uh, and like so off turn when you're shooting this thing. It's on fives. Whereas on turn and you're all attacking It's on threes as a very different level of output from those guns Yeah Right. Yeah Yeah So we'll we'll see again Um, it's the kind of thing where like is 1.2 good. I don't know. Uh, maybe I'm not sure how good this is it depends a lot on what the shooting looks like in the game And then counter charge, which is two points Which is not in combat and you get to charge you charge off turn you charge in the enemy phase Very powerful ability pretty obviously hence why it's two points No question there Yep, okay Okay Um And then finally the last two magical intervention and power through Uh I can't take credit for this. I don't remember what video this came up in But magical intervention somebody called it unleash spell Okay This is not I cannot take credit for that, but I thought that was genius Um, yeah, but it's you know enemy hero phase you can cast a spell or use a prayer or a Chant a prayer As if you're your hero phase I would assume that that answers your question tom because it says as if it were your hero phase Hence the commanded guys that say your hero phase are answered there Right, but you subtract one from casting our chanting rules. Okay Yeah, it'll be interesting to see like if unbind exists how that works. Is it do you just always get an unbind? Do you like what does that look like right and like can you unbind in your own hero phase? Like depending on how they've worded the court rules. It'll be interesting. Yeah Right, assumingly there would be like the the nature to unbind or something is probably an action that's like reaction Like an enemy casts a spell right or something like that. So right but but but we haven't seen any of that on the core War scroll for negash Yeah, so if that's the base like that's not something that it sits on the war scroll level It would have to be in the core rules or a function of like wizard wizard nine or whatever that means, right? Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see How they how they go about it or if it's just if you have a wizard you may unbind on the battlefield Could be Yeah, yeah, like old world style one of my favorite things. I'm just like just unbind just go for it Yeah, okay And then finally power through which is for like chariots and monsters and stuff like that where you can Quite literally do this thing where at the end of the turn you pick an enemy unit in combat Whether it be a target it has to have a lower health characteristic than the unit using this ability You do d3 mortal damage than the unit can move a distance up to its move characteristic Pass through and end that move within the combat ranges of enemy units that were in combat with it at the start of the move But not other enemy units. It doesn't have to end the moon in combat. So you can Quite literally just power through keep your have your chariot. Just keep driving right on or your big monster can wade through Just cool Very cool very cool ability there. I really like that And then they gave us the storm strike chariot wherein we saw now anti infantry plus one rend another one of those keywords So anti infantry plus one rend very easy to read got it if I attack an infantry model my rend goes to two Right and crit two hits Okay, so when I roll a six it becomes two hits Yep, and charge plus one damage when I charge this damage becomes two okay See like I haven't seen any of these rules, but I feel like I've got them. I feel like I've got In companion and in fact not being made by the by the storm cast but by the companions on the base Yep, your beaks Beaks Getting them beaks going Okay And then this through a lot of people Let's talk about this real quick Asia unleashed any charge phase this unit if this unit charged in this phase pick an enemy unit within one inch If it'd be a target roll a d3 on a two plus Inflict an amount of mortal damage on the target equal to the roll Tom, what does that mean when I roll a die? What what's happening here? But I roll a d3 on a two The way that I would read that would be this on a d3 so you roll a dice you get a result from one to three on a two plus Right, so on a on the dive phase of three four five six. Yes You're going to inflict amount of damage equal to the target equal to the roll Now My gut is to say that it's either two or three mortals Because the roll is the roll of the d3 Not the roll of the die phase, which is a decent Yes Okay, so that's how I read this. Yeah, I think that's I think that's very clear. Yes. I agree Now I get the confusion and the frustration. Okay Well, we'll have to see if we'll have to see if how rolling a d3 is explained in the core rules Okay Yeah So, you know like but yes, if you roll a one or two you do no damage If you do all the three or four on the d6 you do two mortal two damage two of a two mortal damage If that's that's going to take a long time to switch to my mind If you roll a five or six you do three mortal damage There you go. Yeah, and yes, jonathan straw I did see the july 2024 date that got scrubbed off the chariot's or scroll Yeah, originally when they published this tom they published it july 2024 hilarious Which hell in that like it's I literally tried to wheel it back Guys, it's too late Cats out of the bag. Just leave it. Why are you making the intern do that work? And and and for anybody that's been around here for any amount of time We could tell you it's coming out the first probably the second week of july That like that that's that's when they release new editions. They've always released new editions in that window period Yeah, no ramion. I wasn't just real quick here power through doesn't say anything about monsters chariots. No, no No, no, no, no, I was just using as examples Like it could just be your six wound hero powers through a five wound hero Right and kills him or something like sure certainly Anybody could power through I was just using it as because you have to have a higher health than the target you're powering through I was just giving like the common examples of what they clearly are are intending you to use it for But yes, absolutely. I wasn't I wasn't meaning to limit that It turns it into one roll. It's reducing the rolling right instead of roll a die to check and then roll a die for effect It's just one roll. It does the thing. That's the advantage Okay Now with celestial blaze, you're having to roll two dice because you're doing a d3 mortals and a d6 movement Yes, sure. Two separate results. Yeah, plop plop You know, we can't get away with from it with everything. Um, I don't know. Uh, this looks like an interesting Uh unit and it has the war machine keyword which I have all kinds of questions Okay What are your questions like What is the war machine keyword? What does that mean? Right, right. Because like this is where fly lives and this is where um Ward lives like those things obviously have some amount of rules packaged underneath them. Yeah, sure What does war machine mean? Could be nothing could be like a type could be like infantry or war machine or cavalry has no rules on its own It only occurs here like you could imagine something says like anti war machine plus one rend or plus one damage or I don't know Whatever, right? Yeah. Um, you could imagine that or it could mean something else It could mean like this unit has some special thing about it, right? Because in the game those war machines all do this How many general keywords do we have? We have anti infantry. We have crit. We have charge companion What else is that it? I'm trying to think back to the negosh scroll Um, we have he didn't have any he had no weapon. He didn't have any weapon abilities. That's what we've seen so far Yeah, so we have four of the seven Yeah some of these could be like They could be counting they could be like double counting like we saw crit two hits and crit mortal I don't know if that's one or two, right? I don't know. I think that's one I'm guessing Like it triggers an effect on a crit and then under that this the subcategory gives the effect of that Just because I don't think like anti infantry two damage Would be different than anti infantry plus one red Sure, uh assistant ref said war machine means it's bad and it's overcosted. Love it The uh And distracted satrap said the name of the driver is war machine. Yeah, it's yeah, absolutely There's a big fan of the band um So yeah, I mean, you know, it's There you go Okay cool That's the that's the commands overall like I said other than this Stupid article that came out about that everything else I've sort of for um Everything else for 4.0. I've seen I've really liked I like this clear sequencing of abilities the new commands look really interesting You know a lot of a lot of a reserve full judgment On is anything broken or too good or too bad until obviously we see all the underlying rules and how they work Yeah, we need four rules and we need points before you can begin to say what's broken and what's overpowered Right exactly. Um, but I think that's all in all, you know, there's a lot of reasons to be excited It seems like we're getting a game that's going to be have a lot of similarities to what Uh, 3.0 is it will be comfortable, but a lot of like clean up streamlining while still hopefully having enough variance here So, I mean, let's we'll see we'll see vicious vicious goose asked if vanguard boxes will be spearheads Um, the answer is is we don't know But In the image for spearheads for hashtag new aos They used the three spearhead boxes that we do have Plus a bunch of uh and all the other images in that in that composite image are vanguard boxes Um as well when they in the video when they were talking about it They were talking about how awesome the new spearhead format is and they showed the indrosa spearhead fighting the nergal vanguard box Right. Um with those contents and so at this point My running assumption is that the vanguard boxes we have are going to be spearhead But some of them may end up getting updated or additional spearhead boxes will get released for some factions Like I could imagine Yeah, they they stated that the vanguard boxes will get become spearhead boxes now That doesn't mean we don't know that like yeah, they did that doesn't mean we won't get some new ones added And as well like potentially there could be a new like obviously with with stormcast and and um Scaven when they when they have the new models assuming that those will get like new spearheads or something, right? the um Relatedly uh one. I'm glad that I bought The one magazine uh because it's replacing all my stormcast not that that helps anybody else But it may be time to go get a hatchet magazine subscription if you need to re restock your stormcast models, but um The next version of that whenever they release the next magazine in two years or whatever if they follow the 40k model Which they've always followed each month will be a different vanguard box Sure. So just just something to think about. Yep for those that are that that this interests them All right. Anything else we want to say tom before we call it a night here Uh, I'll say this while you're thinking hey everybody if you haven't hit like yet or subscribe to don't all those things that make dings You should do those you will become at least Probably 10 cooler. I would guess somewhere at least man. That's not not a small amount of cooler. All right. What do you want? Any final thoughts tom? I'm excited. Uh, I'm I'm deeply uh I'm deeply saddened for those that have lost models have had their models forcibly retired and myself included in that, right? Um this last week. It's it is disappointing. It's disappointing the trajectory that they have been on Um, that said it's um, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful for where we're at and where the the what we're seeing I agree with all of that. Uh, this this is one more army I get to add to my legends cabinet tom Because obviously, you know, I have a boc army So it gets to ace to join that. Uh, will I put it on squares? No Uh, I already have my tomb kings, my Bretonians. I'm happy in the old world with those two Um, it'll just it'll be retired and take its happy place in the retired armies of things that I have in the past, but it's That's easy for me to say I have the luxury of that because I have so many painted armies It's not everybody who can say that and it's a shame But I am hopeful. I agree with you. I think that there's a lot of great-looking stuff here It looks like the team it looks like the team that's making aos for that clearly didn't make any of those decisions about You know retirements and stuff like yeah, that's not there They didn't write this article. They didn't make these decisions likely about what got retired and whatnot That's all people who aren't rules writers. Okay um Are doing a really bang up job And so I do want to keep those two things separate because it looks like the team put together something really good here I'm excited about everything I've seen so far and uh, I I am really excited to see what matt and his team have created here Now that the the sort of shackles are off and they get they got to start from the ground up And write something that they thought was going to be really fun So i'm very excited And shout out to whoever framed this image whoever did this image in using blood crushers Bold move it's a bold move cotton. Let's see how it works out for him Uh It could be good. They could be good. That's yeah Yeah, I mean here's the deal. Uh, I am building and once I get done with this army Yes, I'm going to be doing the spearhead vanguard box painting But like I have my eye firmly set on slash Like that because maybe maybe this is the maybe this is the this is the book this one. This is it. Um, This is it Make no mistake who you are. This is it The waiting is over. Yeah, I mean, you know, look could be time. Um I mean Let's hope could we get good blood crushers for the first time ever at aos history? I'm hopeful I'm hopeful Okay, let's see at any rate for all of you out there I'm thankful and grateful that you watch this show. Thank you so much everybody for watching We really appreciate it hit like if you haven't already subscribed you those things if you want to support the show There's lots of ways you can do it look down below in those descriptions. There's uh affiliate links To buy your new hobby supplies to get your new army ready all that fun stuff There's a merch store down there. You can pick up some some fresh merch if you want to get tom's little sprite and show your your Alliance to team tom There you go And there's also of course our patreon focused on review and feedback and taking your next step on your hobby journey There's also maybe you're frustrated and want to try a new game. Hey, guess what adam and i we make games Those are all listed down there pick up a fun skirmish game. You can use we're miniature agnostic We never retire models. You can use any of your stuff in our games You're looking for a new home. There you go right there, buddy Uh, and we have a new game coming this summer, right? We do indeed. We do indeed tom I was just approving well approving is the wrong word, but adam and i were were like Reviewing a bunch of the art today is including the cover Yeah, get get hyped get hyped people. It's gonna be a hot one. It's gonna be a hot one I mean what i'll say is this Out of all of the games that i've tested it's the one that i've enjoyed the most Well, there you go. Good. I'm glad to hear it. I'm glad to hear it. So it's gonna be it's gonna be a good one Uh, for all the rest of you out there, thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it as always We will see you next wednesday