 Welcome to Sawcast. Today we are talking about season 5, episode 3 of Better Call Saul titled The Guy For This. We just watched the episode so these are going to be our raw immediate reactions to the episode but make sure to check back later in the week where we'll have our full analysis and recap of the episode. Unfortunately Adam can't make it tonight but no worries. We've got my other brother here Alon to cover say hello Alon. Yo with that I'm Gil and let's jump into the episode and by the way if you're listening to this as a podcast check out the link in the show notes where we post these instant takes to YouTube as a video and you can see my beautiful face which just enhances the experience and now without further ado let's get into our reaction to tonight's episode. Alon first thing I want to bring up when that car showed up and the camera zoomed in on the license plate and there was that little bit of a build-up who's going to get out of the car how long did it take you to realize that's Hank? When I saw the bald head. Did you know that he was coming back this season? No did you? I did yeah I was one of those things where I wish I didn't know it in advance but they they kind of released some articles and it was public knowledge that he was coming back so one thing this show does is I think the longer they obscure a person's face the more likely that it's going to end up being a cameo from Breaking Bad so as soon as I saw okay it's a government vehicle the DEA is going to show up I was like that's Hank and Steve and it was so good to see them back I thought it felt like Hank in his prime you had a bunch of Hank isms and it felt great to see his reaction to Saul Goodman's name you got to see him jovial you got to see him get a little bit serious and it seems like we're going to see more of him considering Crazy A is now going to be his personal informant yeah it really fits Hank's personality to catch on to the Saul Goodman joke immediately yeah and it felt like you know one thing this show does is I do not shoehorn Breaking Bad characters in this was super organic it made a complete sense for Hank to show up here and my initial assumption is that that's the only reason they brought in Hank they they actually talk about how in the writer's room they have a big list of Breaking Bad characters and anytime they're going to have somebody show up like let's say a janitor shows up they look at the big whiteboard and say did we ever have a janitor character would it make sense for them to show up here so I figured that okay they need a DEA agent they look at their big list to say hey you know what Hank makes sense here and it would be fun for the fans to see him so why not bring him back but I wonder if you know you look at Mike you look at Gus the other Breaking Bad characters they brought back on Better Call Saul and they didn't just bring them back because it was fun they brought them back to show us a whole other side of them build up more of their backstory and make us look at that character in a different way and I wonder if they're gonna do that with Hank and perhaps Steve or if it's just gonna be hey how great is it to see Hank again yeah I don't know I don't know how much more there is to Hank that we don't know but I don't know maybe we'll find out that I'm hoping at least we get a moment where he looks at a rock or a mineral it just looks very intrigued by it so this plant the seeds early for that for that obsession that came in later huh what is that mineral worry my wife's been shoplifting again you know I keep telling her to stop doing that one of the one of the best storylines in Breaking Bad yeah no and we have a meeting that we've all been waiting for Saul and Lalo finally bump into each other and I have to say it was an entertaining scene but I don't think we've seen the best of Saul versus Lalo yet and I think it was a little bit of a rude awakening for Saul because so far we've seen him totally in control when he's dealing with his cell phone criminals he's Saul Goodman he's he's in his element but here you can see he's super uncomfortable and he tries to get himself un intertwined with Lalo but he's stuck there and he's gonna have to work with Lalo I think it's kind of funny out Saul doesn't seem to realize what he's worth like he should be a millionaire yeah like he can do it and he think like the price problem is he thinks 8000 is a lot especially for these characters like these guys he should he should be able to charge them like 100k for this oh yeah actually it's funny because when he said uh 7000 I already said 925 dollars I like missed the 7000 part and I thought he just said 925 dollars oh and I was like what the hell and by the way listeners if you ever need advice if you're going into a negotiation or anything a one's the guy to talk to because he's the guy who never who always makes sure he's not going to be uh undervalued and you're not going to be undervalued yes I'm all about fairness that's right even if it's one-sided yeah exactly so I think that Saul and Lalo that was a little bit of a rude awakening for him where he's finally realizing oh crap being a criminal lawyer means working with criminals and not just nonviolent felonies Alon did you expect that we were going to see that ice cream cone again no I was wondering what happened what was going to happen to that ice cream cone yeah even more symbolism here not only did it hit the ground now you've got ants too yeah they keep accumulating accumulating right right so what is gonna walk me through the interpretation what's your updated ice cream update on the ice cream imagery right so first of all you see you get Saul and Kim they seem like they're getting along great this episode right it seems like neither of them are really having any issues with each other right now they're enjoying beer they're enjoying throwing beer they're enjoying cigarettes one cigarette but looming in the background is this dilemma that's bubbling up festering wound yes like they can't just cover up their you know future issues with beer and throwing beer and cigarettes the ants are coming to roost right and and Saul actually comes face to face with that ice cream cone which I was not expecting yeah I also think the opening sequence of the episode where you see one ant and then many ants I mean those ants were really enjoying that ice cream so I figured that's a metaphor for all the joy that is coming Kim and Saul's way yeah and the other metaphor here that was a joke by the way I didn't really mean that the other metaphor involved is that he Saul's the one that dropped the ice cream causing this whole mess of ants he's the one who's going to do something to ruin his relationship maybe but uh well actually you know what put a pin in that let's come back to that because I have uh I have another thought on it I also want to say I bet Adam would have got that joke that I made I forgot what you said exactly my point exactly back on the ice cream though with the uh with the the ants showing up in the opening sequence I loved how it's slowly at first it starts off kind of silly what does an ant showing up you have that music but it slowly becomes more and more horrifying it has this ominous music and I think by the end the score might have cut away and replacing the score was this disgusting sound of ants chomping down on that ice cream and to me it almost felt like a sacrifice like Saul Goodman is giving that ice cream that's him taking all the joy in his life and offering it up as a sacrifice in exchange for what's coming next I guess the riches that he's going to get as Saul Goodman and when he next sees the ice cream covered in those ants it's right after he had his meeting with Lalo where Lalo basically where he tries to get out of it and say hey next time you need a lawyer my schedule is a little bit tight and Lalo says you'll make room for me it's the very next scene where Saul sees that ice cream being consumed and I think that's basically the devil saying the ants are the devil and they ate his joy and you know enjoy the spoils of your uh of your your lawyer career now yeah but I bet you a part of Saul enjoys this oh for sure for sure I think uh I think that's a running theme I mean in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul all these people all these people like Walter White Saul even Kim that are going further and further down that path of immorality they're enjoying it they're getting a thrill out of it I think the whole time Saul's going to be enjoying this even as his life crumbles around him as he potentially loses Kim for example and then let's talk about Kim so Kim and Mr. Acker so when she comes back to his house and tries to quote unquote help him shows him all the houses that are for sale and then she tells him that childhood story now my immediate read on that is that that story was a lie did you read that the same way that I did uh no that's that's interesting because so the way I saw it is that the very uh last episode episode two she said I don't want to lie to my clients I read this scene as her saying you know what the right way didn't work the way of the law didn't work I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna do it the way Saul Goodman would do it I'm gonna tell a story and I even noted while she was telling the story that the writers of the show must have studied influence or have some understanding of of what you how you have to speak if you want to influence people and she uses very good imagery she talks about their toes turning blue from how cold they are so to me it felt like she was being a salesman like Saul Goodman and then Mr. Acker doesn't buy it you know he says you'll say anything to get what you want well you could use the truth and still be manipulative so her being truthful doesn't mean that it's her being honorable yeah no that's fair totally fair and I think you're right even if what she's saying is true she's still taking a childhood difficulty that she had and is is using it basically to her advantage she's not exactly being honest even if what she's saying is true and then shortly after that she ends up back home and another piece of imagery is Jimmy coming home and seeing Kim on the balcony and I read that as Jimmy's down here in the mud and Kim is up above you know she's the holy one but then later in the episode after Kim goes to Mr. Acker then she comes back and now she's below looking up at Jimmy on the balcony so to me that felt like Kim has basically joined Jimmy down there in the mud because she just used her dirty tactic on Mr. Acker and then another piece of imagery the first time they're on the balcony they have uh Jimmy puts a a beer bottle right on that little ledge and it's you know the slightest touch it's gonna fall off and I saw that as another either metaphor for their relationship or a metaphor for being between the good and the bad and are you gonna tip over the edge and basically go head first into Saul Goodman or go head first into you know using these dirty tactics and then when Kim comes back this show has so much symbolism it should be in a museum yeah I mean I sure it'll end up in some of these museums that celebrate important works of television or film and that beer bottle though right it's teetering on the edge and then Jimmy actually plays with it he starts kind of tossing it and then Kim's like screw it and they just start throwing those beer bottles so I was already thinking that those beer bottles are representative of are we gonna go over the edge or not and they literally start tossing them over the edge and yeah go ahead oh no I just the first time they were drinking beer I was picturing them just knocking them over for fun so yeah I was happy to see them actually do it at the end there that looked like fun have you ever thrown a glass bottle just to watch it shatter um no yeah me neither me either we should do that next time we're in a suburban area and we can do it you know and then clean it up after without causing any any problems for anyone store a glass bottle next time we're at our parents house we're gonna throw a bottle and our moms could play what the hell are you doing no don't worry it's from Better Call Saul it's for the podcast um Mike let's talk about Mike so first off did you when he told the bartender to take off take that picture off the wall did you see what he was talking about the Sydney yeah the Sydney Opera House and you remember the significance of that no the son that what no no it was uh Werner when they he was at the bar with Werner and Werner was telling Mike about how his father was the mastermind behind the Sydney Opera House so it's just reminding Mike of Werner he can't get away really misses that guy yeah yeah well I think it's not as much that he misses him I mean he misses him but it's also the fact that he executed him that I think yeah he really misses hanging out with him I'm sorry um so Mike's upset obviously he leaves the bar and how satisfying was it to watch and break that guy's arm yeah I mean I want to jerks yes just for no reason just picking on this guy you think Mike purposely walked down a street that he thought some bad characters would be on so I don't know if he did it on purpose but he enjoyed breaking that guy's arm right yeah it's kind of like how uh Saul and Kim enjoyed breaking those bottles right right and well what do you think that what was the point of the scene you know of Mike breaking that guy's arm uh to show that his way of dealing with his own personal issues is by taking it out on other people and he's also really good at it so it's kind of a good combo yeah that's exactly how I read it he's I sat there and I was like this is a fun scene and watching him get to be violent and watching him get attacked and just enact immediate justice was awesome and then I thought to myself why are they showing us this and I think it's no mistake that this scene took place right after the previous one where he's basically wallowing in misery and what we see like you said how does he deal with it he deals with it by by being violent by hurting somebody and I think this gives us a little bit of background of why Mike chose the life that he chose because if you watch Better Call Saul and you see Mike dealing with all this crap you would think why doesn't he get out of this because we know he sticks with it and breaking bad and I think this tells us why it's because violence is how he escapes from the misery of what's in his life right now yeah it's it's also nice for them to show us a scene like this because you know sometimes he seems like a broken old man so it's nice to get a reminder that he's still got this skill in him right right they don't want us to forget that he is a badass yeah and they want to make sure we don't hate him after he yelled at his granddaughter they don't don't worry there's still still reasons to like Mike yeah he breaks bad guy's arms yeah not just little girl's hearts yeah nice it's a good slogan yeah I don't know it's a good slogan I don't know for who I guess if you're an assassin there you go I break bad guy's arms not just little girl's hearts what if it was just one of those then it would be you know if you only broke little girl's heart that would be bad at least he offsets it with the bad guy arm breakings you might want to leave that first part off your business card no I like having it on there so honest day's work nice yeah and it also just occurred to me when you said Mike's good at it that's another theme of the show is people that are good at something but don't know how to use it in a legitimate way so Saul Goodman is so good at what he does but he can only seem to use it for nefarious deeds and you know what you're good at Mike impressions I think that Vince Gilligan that's his name right should keep you in mind if they ever do a young Mike you know series yeah you think that Mike at like 30 sounds the same way he does at 60 yeah I could see it I think he came out of the womb talking like that if he did talk right out the womb you know hey mom I could go for some ice cream right now not like that one over there covered in ants wait that's in the future how does he know about that yeah I can tell the future I didn't mention that all right by the way an update on the Adam loves to bring this up every episode so I've got put on my Adam hat for a second and bring it up so as a reminder in Breaking Bad when Saul Goodman is kidnapped by Walt and Jesse uh Saul his face is covered in um in a bag so he can't see and he yells he thinks that Lolo's been sent after him he goes were you sent by Lolo it wasn't me it was Ignacio so I think this episode maybe gives us a little bit more to work with and think about what might have put him in that position my guess is that at some point Nacho i.e. Ignacio is going to make a move against Lolo and maybe he's going to somehow get Saul's help maybe even without Saul's knowledge and and so Saul will think that Lolo's going to blame him so Saul's going to be Saul's going to think that Lolo is blaming both him and Nacho and so Saul's basically saying it wasn't me it was Ignacio I had nothing to do with it what exactly they did I don't know but I think that's the way we're heading let's keep watching and find out no I don't think so okay this will be the last episode of Saul's cast well it just seems like it feels like things are heading in a dark direction you know and it's I don't know if I want to see that yeah we do yeah I know who am I kidding all right Alon any final thoughts on on this episode before before we do our full recap later in the week yeah um let me uh quick quick list of things I liked uh I like that Lolo likes Saul yes I like that he's like you're the one with the big mouth huh you know you're able to talk your way out of things I love that he heard the story of him and Tuko and they went to like a pretty good amount of detail about it in this episode yeah and I thought that the writers really trust us to remember stuff because they're talking about something that happened back in episode two it's also funny that last episode Adam was trying to remember he's like what was it the uh his abulita bring it up this episode yeah I loved I mean I mean it was a very memorable scene like it's so well done you can't forget it right right and then when uh Lolo says and you let the two of them walk out of there and so I was like well they rolled out I think Lolo kind of respects his uh I mean obviously he respects his abilities with speech which is why they're getting him to help out with this situation right that's what makes him the guy for this the name of the episode uh and then I was like the way Nacho was like when you're in you're in that was great yeah yeah which I think again it's part of that rude awakening for uh for Saul you love lines like that like you creed in the middle of the fight when he goes it's real for you now boy it's real for you now it's the same thing yeah anytime they repeat something twice in a row that's my thing okay okay yeah you know and then uh you know sometimes I got worried I may get a little bored with the Mesa Verde stuff because it's a little kind of eluded like I don't know contracts and stuff but I mean but I think but I thought it was good character development for Kim there and you know what she's not wrong about contracts you know no that's why they're contracts that's right so those are my thoughts she's not wrong about contracts that's why they're contracts I mean the old old dudes being kind I mean like come on if he if he was worried about this happening one day he should try to you know figure something out with the contract earlier on you know he knew this day could potentially come eventually right right though I mean looking at both sides of it technically he's 100 in the wrong but they probably took advantage of him because he sees this contract he sees I get five grand if they want to buy me out which back event would have been worth a lot more than five grand and a good lawyer or somebody that knows contracts would have put in a clause around inflation or something but yeah I'd like to see a spin off of him living there with all these whatever they're building all around him and that's just his life now if I'm gonna be totally honest I probably wouldn't watch that spin what if it was like just a two hour long comedy movie uh it's sure all right with that I think we can wrap it up so as a reminder this was our instant take but of course check back later in the week we'll have our full recap and analysis don't worry a lun will be back and Adam will be joining us as well and if you enjoyed this episode please go into the Apple podcast app leave a rating or a review it really makes us feel good every one of those ratings that we see it puts a smile on my face it puts a smile on Adam's face and trust me it is hard to put a smile on that face and once again if you're listening to this as a podcast check out the link in the description you can go to YouTube and watch this as a video and here and there we're gonna try and do live streams as well so you can be a part of the conversation and vice versa if you're watching this as a video click the link in the description and you can listen to our full recap and analysis that'll get posted later in the week on the podcast thanks for listening