 now like to invite our first panel for the day to deliberate on a very pertinent topic for the news industry that is reducing the noise in TV news. The speakers for this session will discuss how the noise factors that we see on TV is often seen as an outcome of its current business model. Is there any solution to it and how can it be corrected? Now I welcome on screen Ms. Priya Sehgil, Senior Executive Editor, News X, Mr. Varun Kohli, CEO, ITV, Ms. Preeti Chaudhary, Editor, India Today and Ms. Arunima, Deputy Editor, CNN News 18 as the moderator for the session. Over to you Ms. Arunima. Morning Mr. Kohli. Hi Preeti. Morning Arunima. Hi Rohel there. Hello. I think Priya I can't see you there. Hi Priya. Hi Arunima. Hi. So very interesting topic that has been brought before us, reducing noise in TV news. So maybe to start with, do we all agree that TV news is now overpowered by noise? Do we agree on the definition of noise and do we agree that it is overpowered? Starting with you Priya and then Preeti and then Mr. Kohli. I think there you will find this panel is in consensus. There is too much noise rather than you know news, which is of course the tagline of News X also. We need to get news back into the business and I think the best example is what we saw recently because we can do it you know we went into lockdown last year. I think the television behaved the most responsibly you know it was that I view at a responsible best. We were the only source of news how to handle the pandemic, whether it was you know we were talking to people, the stakeholders themselves you know those whose lives were affected, doctors telling people what to do. It was the best source of information, no drama just information. When we came out of lockdown at our worst, that is when the Sushant Singh Rajput case happened. I mean television has never been at its lowest than it was at that point. So you know we so we when we want to we can behave responsibly and we've shown that we could but somehow we don't and why don't we do that. I think a lot of it has to do with this TRP business which is why I'm so happy with this TRP scam that has come out exposing how these ratings are manipulated, exposing also that the way to measure these TRPs is also not adequate enough you know we have just I think you will have the numbers but the we have so few meters compared to the number of TV sets that they're there it's just not adequate enough and but that is how advertisements are regenerative that is how TVs get the channels get their revenue. So in the end of it the whole system is flawed because we've told that you know those channels that make the most noise get the most TRPs and get the most ads and hence that is the model for all of us to follow. Not that lie has been nailed after the TRP scam and I really hope that that is an eye opener that people actually because whoever I met and I move and you know all of us move in various different circles nobody watches these channels that shout and scream and everybody's holding their head about you know why do you guys promote such people. Then where are they getting their views from where are they getting the ad revenues from where are they getting the TRPs from it's been manipulated clearly. So now I hope it's time to bring conversation and real issues back on the news agenda and get news back on the forum. That's really my point. Pretty I mean take that point forward is it true that nobody really watches channels that shout because you might say particular channel or particular anchor was pioneer of this shouting matches but isn't it true that all of us are now onto that bandwagon there is no differentiating A from B. You know I tend to agree with what Priya said that I would recommend the viewer you know at the core of it would not want a panic attack but would want an information they want information they don't want sensationalism they don't want a panic attack but having said that I don't think we're solely responsible for it. I would you know I'll come to the fact that yes you want news without noise that is what India today endeavors to do. We've done so through the you know course of this lockdown I would reckon even when the Sushant Singh Rajput case was blowing up most channels were going up and there was a lot of restraints shown by our channel but that's separate. You know what the question you asked me is very interesting because what I do believe is it's not just the channels there is an audience ready to lap up the sensationalism the noise the no news noise and they're very willing to lap it up whether it's TRPs or not TRPs there are no TRPs right now have we changed it all absolutely not. You know Priya spoke about the Sushant Singh Rajput case I think it was I would reckon in the annals of television history we hit our rock bottom as a collective and you know if you look at even with COVID when we've gone through COVID yes there was a period where yes we were all very responsible dispensing information but leave that one odd show out ultimately we're really not living up to what we should do and I don't think we're solely responsible I would reckon that there is a ready audience as much as we are to blame the people who watch us are to blame as well so the change has to be collected it has to come from the society as well as those who are watching us as well as us. So Mr. Kohli there is no TRP ever since the TRP scam broke out we've not been getting ratings but have we really changed and if we have not changed then is revenue the reason for this noise? So I'll get through the management perspective because you are all illustrious editorial guys Priya is my Kohli I can't debate with you on that but I'll just go briefly on what we think as management and I'm talking to a lot of management across the news platforms since the bug scam happened and all that. Arunima two things are very clear people are discarding Mr. Bachchan of 70s the angry young people who come on screen shout and go and I have seen a lot of channels I mean we in news experts always have news not noise so we have been following but I've seen a lot of channels plugging off mics of guys who have been shouting right and it's a welcome daily because a pandemic has really caused a lot of stress to all of us so we don't want to go to television and watch it. The second paradigm shift is screens are changing the screens of course broadcast remains on television but there is an OTT there is a digital which gives you a lot of feedback and the new age viewers don't want noise at all they want different things they want newer things to be served to them and that is why if you see especially on the web you get videos doing very well which don't have any noise that's now with TRP is going off for some time the editorial pressures have listened to a large extent and the focus is back on content because it's the content which is which is the king we have lost much of revenue after the bark shows that people have believed in the content we watch because we are in a genre where our advertiser is also our viewer so majority of the and everybody has a choice so you go to an advertiser if my sales team talks to an advertiser they exactly tell which channel to go and which not and trust me the guys who were trying to rule the rules don't even figure into discussions the guys who have been the angry young man or whatever you call it because we have been seeing how things are the problem was ratings the problem was advertisers the problem was pressures but I think over the last one year since the time pandemic happened lot of things have changed because a lot of management editorial and otherwise have set together and come that we want to create a world-class product because next 10 years the screens will be multiples so if you have to go to multiple platforms you have to engage in a content which is good for all because ultimately we are serving news you know interesting that you say that editorial pressures have gone down pretty let's get back to that conversation of storytelling the reason why you know television scored over other other mediums when when we started off with 24 hours news channel because we would go where the story is report real time as the story broke but not just in India and I'm just going to a quote from a 2013 US media report by Pew Research Center which said that across the three cable channels in US which is CNN Fox and MSNBC coverage of live event which required ground report which required a crew and OB van to go there on the spot fell 30% from 2007 to 2012 while interview segments which tended to take fewer resources went up by 31% India also the story is the same isn't it I mean often we are told and Mr. Koli and Priya you can come in on that but really often we are told that it's easy to fill you know a space for a show for a half-hour show with a BJP a congress a left and and you know another spokesperson rather than to send a reporter with an OB van to an area so that revenue model is also dictating where we are heading you know Arunma you couldn't have said it better and this was a point and I wanted to make in the beginning as well if you we've collectively got lazier in terms of news collection news reportage putting out information we've forgotten what we used to do best there was a reason you know and instead of you know you know we can we can go on and on till kingdom come about this but you know you're a reporter Arunma you go out in the field haven't you seen over the past many years the respect for a reporter has gone down notch by notch and it only comes to what we're putting out we've gotten lazier we'd rather let people scream instead of your story talking and what was the tenet of journalism that we were all taught and you know we went to the same college what was the tenet of journalism that we were taught in college which was your story needs to speak not you if your story speaks loud enough you don't need the noise we don't have those stories anymore yes I think the journalists have become the story not the story but the covering yeah exactly you know who who invests that time anymore you know I still remember you know we still try to do it and I'll give you two examples but who invests that time anymore when you sent out a journalist you know doggedly for two weeks to cover a story and forget about that reporter and let him come up with a hard-hitting investigative report and you go with that and you go with that big you know that doesn't very rarely do you see that what you see mostly is from morning to night you just see talking heads because you need to fill up that 20-minute segment the monies are coming in in any case let people scream why give them news you know and I'll give you just one quick example before you know if you go across to the others you know during this you know one year with what we've seen you know a couple of stories I would reckon every channel would know that they'd have but you know a story that we're very proud of which created a lot of noise but we didn't create that in the newsroom was this one video that one of our colleagues shot in Hathras and that video went on to be the talking point for days all in days end you know it shook a government uh let's not get you know what it got down to but that story telling you come up with something strong you come up with good content you come up with journalism you know you don't need the noise you know Priya since you do also these one on one interviews where you were having a calm discussion with with your news maker but that that seems to be part of a different tribe that kind of you know news journalism seems to be of a different tribe do you get under pressure as well as far as revenue as far as rating goes does it work if you do that kind of you know news television journalism fortunately I've been very lucky in terms of support also and in terms of viewership also you know people actually welcome the conversation and you know taking off from something what Preeti said when the story becomes the news and not you today the anchors as you know we've been discussing have become brands and their views have become the news so that the faceless anchor is really now a thing of the past you know everybody has to have an identity so now it's not just the story is broken up but I also say who broke it which channel and then I know okay it's me yes lanta I was lanta you know that is the problem and we often have this debate on you know internally and as well as outside that should we show news or should we show views unfortunately what is happening in the channels is during the day that what breaks is news but in the evening when we have the discussion what happens is views but these views are good because you need to assimilate what has happened and analyze it but it's also how that panel is composed which you know you can easily slant the panel to give your point of view you know a of course you have an anchor that first of all gives his or her point of view which I think is something which I always try and avoid because you know people are not tuning in to hear me but that's you know they want to hear the guests that I've got but it also depends on the quality of the guest so one rule that I do is I do not get spokespersons because they've been taught that every debate is an akhada who shouts more they've been giving shouting points and it's a verbal akhada you know which is why we have shows with no offense I don't know which channel they're on but shows like dungle shows like akhada muker muker what is that you know they're all various shows that come which also indicate that this is going to be a aggressive face off so let's not you know we don't get into those kind of arguments don't get spokespersons because they will shout they've been taught to shout but keep the stakeholders try and get a leader if you don't have a leader then get a journalist a political analyst and you know that's you try and balance the debate out unfortunately today we have a lot of people who are masquerading as political analysts but they are actually people affiliated to a party and a viewpoint which is why our channel gets lopsided yeah that's what it wants to watch out for. Mr Kohli all of us are on the same page that we want to reduce noise we want to bring in more content but again to get to the revenue part of it I mean is this a problem limited to Indian television again what is happening in India have often been called foxification of Indian news folks you know in the last two months its ratings were going down but march onwards it has picked up again and what fox is saying is that we are going to be that opposition to Joe Biden so so anchors with a view anchors who challenge the establishment or who speak the same language as the establishment isn't the audience lapping it up do they want neutral voices anymore or do they want anchors to take science what what is the advertisers say what are the ratings say see we have to look at it a little differently one within the industry we are not united we don't come together for a common cause right that is the point number one you know and as priya rightly pointed out the anchors have started giving their viewpoints they decide on everything not the viewer so of course the viewer will not like because if you are testing his intelligence a lot of channels will go off like I again said the revenue streams are opening now the revenue streams are not just limited to advertising on broadcast you know digital revenues are very big OTT revenues are growing so there will be multiple platforms from where you will get revenue everything cannot be labeled as revenue I can tell you there are channels who do very well in advertising in spite of not getting great ratings right and there are channels who got great ratings today are out of business there are a lot of advertisers who are moving out because they don't want to be with the kind of environment that channels are populated and and you all know I'm sick that particular channels are not on on the platform with us right now but I have seen off late advertisers wanting to ship because even the advertising side nobody has gone and sold environment everybody has gone and sold only ratings if you take a little tougher stance and the sales team goes and says see my environment is different I am refreshing I attract an audience who sits with me this problem will get over the problem is both ways the editorial anchors think that if they don't become the brands they might be out of job the management things if you don't get ratings we will not get money this has to change together and together will only happen when the industry comes together and fights this menace called bark ratings because the ratings with few meters with people shouting if that people shouting becomes the number one number two by default for whatever scam it is at the end of the day what happens all other all other editorial people are under pressure to perform the management is also under pressure to perform because none of us have distribution revenues varying few channels and that is also very insignificant right so you have to run us business ethically you have to get advertising support now the currencies and thinking are changing I'll give you a small example last four months by months we are out of bar how many channels have lost business I have not seen many new channels losing a lot of business barring the guys who are claiming to be number one number three number fours number five I mean the top ones are still getting the revenues I'm all of you with editorial works very closely with sales you would have known nobody has come and complained to you now otherwise if ratings was only the case we would have all been out of business we would have been and then we would have got business so this rating business has to somewhere out of them and content has to become the main thing because news is all about giving information right so rating is is one of the issues that that we have all agreed upon that if news has become noise rating in the way those ratings are brought before us the process of collection the process of putting them out that that's definitely a problem but really is problem also with news gathering take the example of the current assembly elections how many teams each of us each channel has has sent to Bengal comparatively how many to a Sam and how many to put to cherry further you go away from New Delhi further is the investment in news gathering and and when you answer that whether there's a problem do you think this mojo hit the mobile journalism that could be an answer because earlier you had to send a camera person a reporter an ob crew now a one person crew with a mobile can go and cover that can that address the distance of tyranny as as a former boss of mine called it I think we share the boss but yes you know when you talk about the distance of tyranny Arunama you know I think we've all seen it haven't we and and I really don't think a mojo kit will solve that problem I personally don't think a mojo kit will solve that problem yes you know when you're sitting in on the draft board before an election like every channel has an election board and you know give the analogy of elections there and you put it all out you know you know okay this is a tectonic election you have West Bengal 80% of your resources are automatically given to West Bengal and you'll have say 5% or 2 reporters going into a sam kuddu cherry to stringer you know usually this is you know how it's broken down but you know what's why I think it might change when you talk about the mojo it's not so much with us because there are too many people with mojos right now who are not with channels there are independent journalists who are going out there reporting some of them doing exceptional job and some of them doing not such a great job because I think story telling is where you talk about journalism there's a sense of responsibility it's not that our tribe or our ilk has really you know kept up to that responsibility but there are so many people out there and the competition is not just you me or Priya the competition out there is so many of these journalists right now who are out there reporting with that mojo so that makes it essential to cover that story so when you know you know there are going to be five people doing you know for example I'll give you an example what happened yesterday you talk about a sam when that entire EVM story broke we were we were lucky we had a journalist there yeah you know people and that was the story which you know in the evening when you know we talk about all talking heads debating even debating that but we were very lucky that we had a reporter who was dogged who got the story first but there were many channels who did not and they were relying on stringer information but coming back to you know that quick point that I was trying to make that there are so many people out there bearing mojos and reporting some of them doing an exceptional job some of them doing not it adds the pressure so I hope you know our universe is going to be widened where the tyranny of distance is going to be reduced because of them not because of us I don't think it's a call that you and I or our editorial teams will take unfortunately we've got to see it here you know it it's not going to happen you know a mojo kit you'll still put that mojo kit in Bihar in in Bengal yeah you know and not say in in in a sam but when you see five other mojo kits reporting out of a sam you'll be forced to put one because then your digital you know content will be eaten up by those guys so so Priya we've discussed rating is a problem for this now is that we're also debating coming on that uh whether where we send our news crew the kind of stories we want to say is also a reason for this noise is there a solution for it well I think one solution or rather a reality checker is the social media you know we've also seen the stories that are not covered or that we choose not to cover are highlighted on the social media and that's really where we come in you know and we have to step up because we've seen the quite often television channels follow the social media our story that's broken there and then we pick it up so this whole thing of sending journalists sending mojo kits even if a lot of channels didn't have that story somebody or the other on social media would have put it up you know and we can take it from there and source it so sourcing stories are becoming easier in terms for channels and I'm sure we're very happy there's not so much of money that will need to be spent really to send people out because you have anybody with a camera with a cell phone is a reporter you know you will get your story it's just whether you give it whether you choose to play it or not that becomes really the question you know whether it is newsworthy TRP worthy whether it fits in with the agenda of your channel know a lot of equations come into play over here and that's really I think your biggest issue today in covering news news will come to you now we're in that position everybody somebody in some corner will get you that news do you play it or not that's the big question how do you play it do you know give it with the agenda view yes you I think you were speaking about anti-establishment anti-establishment was the norm and that is why some channels came up you know let's mention it in order for Swami came up because he was anti-establishment during the congress and I think his biggest fault is that you know he's not keeping up to that image right now you know he's not here so I don't really take his name but anybody so anti-establishment was the norm for the UK somehow in this government it's become I think there's a race to see who's more pro-establishment than the other there is a change of stance that I'm seeing in the current scenario now people on the road because also there is we have a popular prime minister people I don't think want to hear too much ill of prime minister Modi also you know it's not just the channels as Preeti said the viewers are also responsible nobody wants to hear too much of Modi bashing I've seen that also maybe when the tide turns yes but right now he still has the popular thing so let me for instance what happened in Bihar in the migrants thing you know we were blaming him until we saw the voters themselves not blaming him they were blaming the state government so you know it's not just the channels that are pro-establishment the mood on the ground is also such and you know that brings me back to the point that I was seeing maybe because of that sentiment people are now expecting anchors to to align I mean we blame anchors for creating noise but is it not true that people are expecting anchors to to say what what especially youngsters it is often said that youngsters have a certain view when they enjoy only anchors who are screaming shouting we've seen anchors walking up to spokesperson threatening them intimidating them there have been spokesperson at each other's neck in studios and they they enjoy ratings on social media that's how they become and that is why you have those two just from Pakistan sitting there and hearing abuse at them you know you want to find someone a punching bag so you know you maybe it fills in that bloodlust thirst you know the audience the viewers have that you know it's like I said it's a verbal account out there so perhaps you're right it does fit into a certain niche of your ship but that's really not my kind of TV it is not but again coming back to that question of trying to address I mean if revenue is dictating our choice Mr. Kohli this is the fact that you know social media the fact that you know most of the people are now watching news on their phone appointment viewing tuning in for the nine o'clock news is now increasingly going down people are watching it on twitter on youtube is that changing the way you are perceiving news the way you are interacting with the editorial team on what should go on air and how that social media consumer of news that segment should be addressed so coming to my organization Priya will vouch for it we have never put pressures on editorial to put what sort of story never in my seven years in itv network heading close to 11 channels have we called up any editorial guy and said to put a story or not to story I'm said I can say it with a lot of authority and I can say a lot of management's don't put pressures I'm said I I saw India today I work work for mail today so I know there's never been a pressure on editorial and so will not be seen and because all the organizations which are represented there have worked there so I know there is there's no pressure this is a whole aloo which has been built by people on revenues dictating I have not seen that happen of course rating dictating always has happened because that's has been the currency initially which has brought out but let's look at English news the ratings on the pie with the bark says on an English news is miniscule now right still people are getting business people get business because they want to be seen with certain side of TV my only problem which I see is like in the west the channels clearly dictate what side of political spectrum are they are they towards the right or the left in India the problem is even the channel leaving completely right will also say I'm unbiased I'm just time has come where the viewers go to a particular channel because they want to hear a particular view if they like the government they want to be with only those channels and vice-versa I think time has come where the channel leanings have to also be clear I think there is no such leaning which is there because everybody says that they are the most fair guys but the fact is from the content you can know which channel is moving with side interesting point there isn't it really I mean editorially speaking do you see that happening I think because as industry insiders most of us know which anchors show is it still thing which which way I just take a second to explain you yeah in in an X channel and I don't want to name I exactly know an eight o'clock news we treat to right of center and the nine o'clock news is left of center I'm a viewer is smart I'm saying you have to make your choice that as a like you go to west Fox will go one side and they will not been and CNN will go the other side they will not go away and the audiences are attached to them not tomorrow if you start having such audiences you can become pay channels at a big price because the guys would want to come in here and you can have rich content right so I was asking you pretty like he mentioned Fox CNN we know how the West operates they're very clear even for newspapers people people who know which way a particular newspaper is leaning will take two subscription of two different newspaper read the right leaning one and the left leaning one and make up their mind in television I mean all of us claim to be objective no channel says that we are biased or leaning is that is there any scope do you see this happening where channels or particular shows declare their allegiance and say you know this is this is the editorial side we are taking you decide whether you want to see us or not it's a pity isn't it you know it is such a pity because I take off from what even Pia said um you're already being slotted we've all gotten slotted you know all of us go out as anchors we're all there we go out when we report and it's such a pity because you're already either go the media depends which camp you walk into right if you're walking into a right-wing camp which is you know you know people who are out there if you're covering an event then you are loaded but if the same person and you know and it cuts both ways the same person walks into let's say um a Kisan Nandolan camp they're immediately branded go the media you know labeling branding we were we were not supposed to be this you know I could you know this is yes at the level um it's sad that one has to say it and mobilize it in so many ways but was it actually there because I remember uh you know if you remember when the common wealth uh scam hit every channel worth its salt went behind uh the congress uh went behind Kalmadi I remember running behind Kalmadi days in and days in you know and possibly most journalists at that point of time who were covering the case would say they were responsible of bringing down the Sheela Dixit government because you know at one point of time you and you were not I wasn't called bhajpai or you know there are so many other uh you know unpleasant uh idioms that I could subscribe to here you know you won't call that at that point of time you were just doing your job but the sad part is today that each one of us already have found the leap so like you know Varun also said that one channel for one show will be left one channel for one show will be right and immediately you found the bracket I think that's a very new thing we shouldn't it shouldn't have been there but that's sad that it is and why should we be declaring it they're new no why should I be declaring that okay my you know my show is going to be leaning towards the right so you know that's what it is going to be and that's my audience you know the day I start doing that I should take myself out of news I'm sorry I actually do subscribe to the old tenets of news which is non-partisan you know and uh not maybe neutral but objective and the day I start yeah the day I start declaring yeah the day I start declaring my allegiance on news then I need to be on entertainment I don't need to be on news you know then I need to get myself out of there because that's not the space to me yeah but but yeah the labeling has already happened Preedy was talking about the Kisan Andolan at Singhu border actually when we went there at Ghazipur at Singhu there were posters put up with you know reporters and anchors places saying if you see these people don't speak to them there were there were people who were there to report and they were forced to come to a press conference and address about how you know their management were telling them to tour a particular line I mean things couldn't have been worse for for the television industry that then what is going on how do you really come out of this situation a lot of reporters a lot of camera persons are just earning their bread and butter they don't really care about about the labeling how do you come out of this this noise space I mean what is the way forward think you're right the reporters on ground are unbiased they are just going and just doing their job which is reporting it's those who are sitting in the studios and that's when again we come back to why anchors are being labeled by anchors are going out of their way to prescribe to a certain party point of view and they do it very consciously it's not that something they've been told to do it's just something they do it to build their own image and build their own branding very often I've seen that a lot of anchors want to you know build their thing because maybe they've seen it from foxy they've seen it from you know they have other idols from the west but they have taken the stance that we have to stand for something some party some you know ideology which is very weird because you should if I am an anchor I should stand for Priya as good for politics Preeti is good for you know say politics again or business you know or you know the kind of shows you do we should be known for the kind of work we do and not for the kind of views and beliefs that we are going to be espousing that is my main problem really with the branding yes go and for branding branding health why not but at least go and for the right kind of branding and go and for the right field and not just be a political branding everything has become politicized today I was looking you know we're having press club elections those are also in camps it's polarized you know that is the world that we live in that everything we do has even our vaccines have become polarized there is a bjb vaccine there is a congress vaccine there is a secular vaccine there is an indian vaccine there is a national you know so why do we need I mean that unfortunately is not just the fault of all of us here all the viewers it's also the narrative in the country and I again come back to social media I think the whole atmosphere is really wish you it social media has a good role we talked about the positive role but it has a huge huge negative role also and polarizing the conversation dividing us and bringing down the loading the standards also name calling trolling where does that happen on the social media if Pithi says something and someone doesn't like it how does he express himself he's not going to throw eggs on a tv screen he's going to go and abuse it on social media that's what is happening to all of us so that is where I think the fault really lies until we I really feel we need to get rules or some kind of a mechanism to govern the narrative on the social media that is whipping up this kind of passion and in terms of you know and even why are anchors trying to play up their roles they want to get more following on social media if they take this line then Congress will fall so they are also playing up this using it to build their own brands because we are told the number of followers you have on social media is actually your TRP that's how you are popular so that's something that needs to be I think somewhere we need to do a cost correction into the way we are handling the system Pithi just to take that one line from what Pia said forward most of the reporters on ground are unbiased anchors are not I mean that that that's an allegation that is often made that anchors are the ones who are who are not unbiased but yet when the big story happens Hindi channel English channel regional channel you will always see prime time faces or studio faces going out there and taking that reporting space how does that change the dynamic of that story does that change the dynamic of the story in any way does that contribute to the noise in any way right there Arunima you know haven't we all heard I still remember and I'm I stand guilty of it at many times as well and completely guilty because you have an understanding of the story sitting in Delhi at a big story say it takes place back on the book that Pradesh or let's say even in Karnataka or elsewhere and I would reckon you know you understand the term you know by local journalists we are called the para-dropped anchors so you know where we are you know that nobody knows what's happening and suddenly an anchor is para-dropped people these are bought in you know and you know so I also understand the management's point of view because they feel that these are your faces and it's not something that happens or it's you know just attuned to India itself I think it happens in every channel or you know every international channel every channel invests in these five six faces and they want them to be the face of that story of course you know when you look at most international channels I would think the space given to a reporter is a lot lot more way more you know they're taken way more seriously then and you know there's an anchor person and there's a reporter but they will be an anchor person as well attached on ground there so I do think and yes it does happen because I think a classic example would be the Hatra's case if you remember you know there was a narrative which was brewing and there was a story which was being told and then suddenly the story you know blew up and then every channel sent their faces and then it was you know the story totally turned on its head because it was all about politics it became political you had each channel face which sadly like I said like Priya also says had a basic form of allegiance that the viewer would identify with and the story got told from their lens and that's unfair to the story you know and this happens a lot it happens a lot. So why does it happen Mr. Kohli give us the management sense give us the revenue sense is it because dropping paradropping faces brings in more viewer connect brings in more ratings often we've been told that you know you should invest in reporters like in in print media the reporters byline is something that that is sacrosanct so in television how is it different why this investment in faces how does it contribute to the revenue and to the noise so to put it simple you get new faces you get audiences to a certain extent because people do follow faces there is a lot of worshipping of a lot of senior anchors who people want to follow before coming to this point one point I wanted to say regarding the godi media which happened especially on the farmers protest and we as an organization what why should some organizations who are not labeled godi media show so much of that let's see farmer protest is saying as an industry body we should come together and decryde irrespective of the journalist is a journalist they have worked their way up to come to where they are they might have their leadings but at the end of the day they also do hardcore tournaments that has been missing in our industry and that is the vital point which none of us have addressed so if one channel gets a bro beating by someone all other channels show it as a just something that oh we are the most genuine and all others are bad that is what is the biggest problem in our industry there is no unit but I'm saying if some guys they want media also and at the end of the day they are decrying certain people as godi media I don't agree people might agree with their andolan people might not agree everybody has their viewpoint who are they to decide on us so we have to come together that is one secondly yes three years four years back there was a lot of thing of getting faces I'll give you a very small example in news x the organization which which we work for we have a lot of young guys who have become celebrities in themselves because they got a chance during pandemic to showcase their talent they brought in great news they brought and we celebrated it right so I agree to a large extent today also a lot of hero worshipping on certain anchors is there but I think two years down the line just will go because the viewer has become very smart people and if you are to aim the new age viewer you have to do something different and that is why you're seeing new role models coming in a small example we have a regional channel in Haryana also in Ambala per se you know the kind of youtube hero worshipping is there they're close to 30-40 in one district so what are we talking of a hero worshipping sitting in Delhi people are changing customer tests are changing and it will change the way even he anchor worshipping will happen I do see a lot of change happening in the next two years okay you're hopeful but pretty again since we're discussing anchors we'll come back to you know there's this thing that he said to do something different the pressure to do something different you've pioneered the motorcycle diaries going on a bike and and trying to figure out the journalism I'm sure would stay the same speaking to people but the mode that you chose to to convey that story got in attraction got in got in eyeballs some others including me got on to the train others have got on to buses get out of the the you know our cars in which they're chasing a cavalcade try and you know porch themselves on that car to show that drama that that drama is is a sense of news television in a way contributes to the noise well you know I'm back to differ with the noise is concerned because you know ultimately we're journalists yes we're not print journalists we're television journalists right and if you're a television journalist you've got to tell the same story differently because it's a visual medium and that is why I you know you've gotten on why we pick the motorcycle you know to do a hard-hitting political election show where we're going across to leaders and yet you know we're trying to put out election stories and you know it it does cut both ways because when we started doing it it was I think in 2017 is when we said okay fine how do we tell the same election story differently because we've done it already you know we done in 2014 we did this whole series called track interaction where me and a camera person went on a train gone forsaken for 48 days right and trying to you know get down in every station and then we did bus and they're like a train currently bus currently now how do we tell the same story differently and then it looked very gimmicky and to be very honest I've got to give it to our chairperson because I remember I was in an election meeting and we were with our chairperson and it was her idea so she says I think you know if you do you know how to ride a motorcycle get on it and I was I thought it was gimmicky you know for somebody who's I thought it would be very gimmicky you know everything would be lost on a girl on a motorcycle because you're trying to make a statement it doesn't work when you're trying to tell you know when you're trying to tell an election story why you know why should I get on to and we were made fun of we really were nobody really looked at the content but you know as and you know we did presure and to say it we managed to do it the content then became bigger than the motorcycle I was on and we've done now many many series so I would think it contributes to the noise here because I feel it's a visual medium you've gone to keep you know how long will somebody I don't remember you know you and I both know how long will somebody keep seeing those five cuts which says okay you know Gujarat is going into election cut one cut two cut three two bites one you know those are why else no I'd rather put a n either why why has my channel invested in me as a journalist to tell the same story differently visually you know they hope that I bring in the content but how do I do it differently and I think with you've got to be TV you know we can't be shown of what what we are you know I'm not a print journalist I'm a television journalist I am in a visual medium so I've got to keep doing it whether and that is why maybe you know the way you are connects because they want to see something different but want to connect to the same story so I don't think the noise comes in here I think this is a little different than that I would reckon the noise would again like I said those massive TV debates that we hold every evening on the same topic yes but I would think we need to do it we need to keep you know keep pushing the envelope and how we tell a story right so we're agreeing on on that that you know the problem is not so much with with the drama that is in the essence of television news we keep looking for new ways to engage our viewers the problem seems to be once again in the studio so Priya again taking forward from another point that Mr. Kohli made that there's no unity amongst the news channels we have a national broadcasters association but there are there have been organizations who have chosen to leave NDA when they were penalized or they were there were attempts to hold them accountable we don't want government control we don't want judicial control we want to ensure that the control is in our hands but if there is no agreement within the news industry about what is noise and how do you control it is there a way forward I'm glad you asked me this question because quickly I just want to disagree with Varun here in what he said about the farmers protest I think what the farmers did was very smart you know they identified the anchors who are going to take a line they're not going to tell the farmers story they've already made up their minds and they are going to be taking you know a pro establishment line so we don't want them to tell your story they in fact had their own youtube channel and that is the real danger the news is going to face if we are going to give a slanted version of news then people will form their own youtube channels it's the era of the social media and get their story out they're not going to depend on you and me to get the story out they're going to be their own story people so at the tell us so at the end of the day if we want to do a fair reporting we have to do it you know otherwise the story the stakeholder himself will take up a channel and start telling a story and they don't want you to tell us slanted stories so they don't want you why should I call a certain anchor here when I know exactly what he's going to say he's not going to be kind to me he's going to take what I said distorted and portrayed in the slanted way why should those people be invited I think what the farmers did was a huge wake-up call for the entire media industry and I totally applaud them for that you know in that sense and who should be the watchdogs I think why did certain people walk out of the NBA because they felt that you know the NBA was taking one line so they wanted to form their own parallel or body I don't know maybe we should look for people outside to govern us maybe you know retired judges or retired editors I don't know but we need to find someone that everybody agrees on and that's never going to be easy so I really don't know all right so closing remarks then starting with you Mr. Kohli to reiterate what we started off by discussing reducing the noise in TV news the noise factor that we see on TV is often an outcome of the business model yes or no at the end of the discussion do you think that the noise factor is a result of the business model and he's addressing the business model then the answer to reducing noise on news television I'll change it the other way around there are a lot of shows like what Priya does and all where there is no noise and we still attract a lot of ratings so there is no specific answer of it I have seen a lot of channels where there's no noise whatsoever today it's a welcoming change when you guys switch off the mic of a person who's shouting beyond a point things are changing things are evolving to a large extent right today viewer wants the news to be set in a peaceful way so that at least they can understand what they want and one thing more why I wanted to add thanks to pandemic news on television has come back to prominence I during the pandemic at least every news which was circulated on a digital media I used to get at least 20 frantic messages is this story true or not because people don't believe what is thrown at digital media till they come back to television to check it and it has become a more authenticated form than print because print comes once a day and this is live 24 hours so I'm saying we guys have a real opportunity at the same time as an industry body we have to come together without and have a common area that how do we need to progress towards a particular goal I'm very curious to know on that point you're seeing you know television news has come back with its credibility because of the pandemic print comes once a day but what about digital I mean there is another alternative medium there exactly Anuruma my point is there is a lot lot of fake news which which is there on the digital media people come back to us to check or they go back to the TV screen to check whether this news is true or not because a five-year-old clip is also put together and then it gets viral thanks to whatsapp and all on the so people are relying on television to get the real news they might get fascinated by a news which is there on the digital platform but they go back to channel at times to check or to with us I mean I get a lot of messages every now and then is this story true is this story true because there are a lot of fake news which is going thanks to the digital boom that has happened right pretty closing remarks is we agree we've agreed that there is noise but is the business model responsible for the noise on news television if so is changing the business model the answer to this problem I really wouldn't know because whether changing the business model I really wouldn't know but when I can just talk as a journalist and I've come back to the point that Priya had made and I totally agree with her I think the Kisan Andolan Arunima for journalists as a community was a textbook case to read the right act to us you know if the whole narrative was going a certain way when the digital guys when they themselves started controlling the narrative in terms of the kind of information they wanted out is when most of us realize that you can't cover it your way you can't you know you can't call them Kalisthani day after day on prime time you can't do it you know it's it's not cutting it there's a there's a general opinion which is building against them you know against you so I do think that and I do feel that I think it lies in your own hand as a journalist because I do subscribe to the old theory of what journalism stands for you've got to stop becoming caricatures of ourselves and they're doing that and I do also hope and I hope that there is a you know rhyme for every reason there's a time for every season I hope that season is in you know I hope now you know there's always a phase that we see which peaks in TV especially in news we've always seen that let's hope we've you know at least with that whole I don't think we've got through our worst I think it's going to be an ongoing process you know we will see many many Sushant Singh Rajput cases coming up ahead but I do hope as individuals we start realizing a little bit more on what we're doing but you don't think really you don't think there is a constituency out there which believed in the Sushant Singh Rajput conspiracy theories which believed in the Khalistani narrative that that was pedaled out and anchors and journalists who were who were you know putting out more to add to that narrative actually had viewership you don't subscribe to that that theory no no I totally agree with you of course they had viewership of course that's the reason why they were doing it you know because there was a ready audience that's what I began you know I don't know that's what I said right in the beginning you can't just blame the anchors you've got to blame the people who are consuming this news and are propelling the anchors to say it five times louder but that's not you know I can blame the viewers but ultimately it comes down the buck stops with me and I hope it ebbs there I hope this ends but it's not going to they will continue to see it but now there's a stronger sense in a certain set of people like I said who like so many of our you know our own ilk our own tribe were made up into this larger than life facials right and today they're not today they're a pale comparison to what they stood for like I said caricatures of themselves now right and I hope this trend continues they have final 30 seconds this will only save us I don't think anything else yeah we're counting down to the ending this this very interesting discussion laugh 30 seconds to you I think what it boils down to really is credibility you know do you uh with the business model or whatever the best model is the credibility do you pander to the popular opinion and say yes there was a conspiracy behind Sushant Singh Rajput or do you tell the uncomfortable truth that really is the bottom line I think it comes to and a lot of business houses also are now you know for instance I know Rajeev Bajaj announced that he will not advertise in certain channels that tell a certain slanted narrative so if the industries themselves start doing that in the business houses to start giving revenues to responsible channels that will help in building up a credible media also the farmers already put us on notice so I think bottom line is credibility and that comes from within right we are pretty Mr. Kohli thank you so much I had a great time but discussing this sorry to crawl over to you thank you thank you Arunama thank you