 The NSAR's panel report is illegal, says Festus Cayamo. He also says dialogue to lift Twitter ban is in progress. And Nigerians will experience multi-dimensional suffering, says Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria. Well, this is Plus Politics. I am Mary-Anna Corn. The Minister of State for Labour and Employment Festus Cayamo, SA-N, has dismissed the NSAR's panel set up by the Lagos State Government and the report it presented recently. He said it was out of the jurisdiction of the panel to investigate the activities of federal government institutions and officials such as Nigeria Police Force and the Nigerian Army. He also explained why the ban on Twitter has not been lifted, saying the dialogue to lift the ban is in progress with few conditions yet to be met. We're joining us to discuss this are legal practitioners Chris Itamanola and Monday Ubani. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Yeah, thank you very much for having us. Great. By Sabani, I'm going to start by asking, what does the minister mean by the panel is illegal? When he says the panel is illegal, what exactly is he pointing to? Yes, I watched him last night on television, where he strenuously tried as much as possible to condemn the panel that was set up by the governors across the country by saying that it was illegal and he urged the name illegality to those panels on the ground that they were investigating Nigerian Police and Nigerian Army, which according to him does not have to appear before those panels because they don't have jurisdiction. They are federal agencies, you know, over which legal state or any other state has legislative competence. He cited section 21 of Tribunal of Enquirer's Law because according to him under that particular section, it's only matters that are within the legislative competence of the state government that the panel of Enquirer can exercise a jurisdiction over. That was what he was trying to explain and we laughed at that explanation because he wasn't right both in law and in logic because what transpired and what actually went on with the Tribunals is quite different from what he was alluding to. They were not asked to investigate a promotion of the Nigerian military or army or to draw up policies with regards to Nigerian army of police or to talk about their recruitment or discipline. The Tribunals that were set up was with regards to violation of the rights, violation of the rights of the cities and I have to, you know, have consigned issue of security of the state and so the governors and the state government have jurisdiction over issue of insecurity or security and they also have jurisdiction over complaints or violations of rights especially when we know the 1999 constitution does not have any provision for what you call a Tribunal of Enquirer Act that is applicable to all over the Federation. The Tribunal of Enquirer Act is today, it's only applicable to Federal Caviteau territory. The states have what you call residual jurisdiction over issue of panel of enquiries and when they have that residual power they have a right to set up panel that deals with issue of the matter that affects them, you know, affects the state and even issue of public welfare, not only issue of matter that affects them but issue of public welfare they have a right to set up an enquiry or investigation into such conduct of any public officer including officer that our federal government agencies as long as they, those things happen within the jurisdiction where the panel is set up like Legos and it bothers on issue that the state has jurisdiction like issue of violations of rights there is nothing that precludes Legos state or any other state for that matter to set up a panel of enquiry to look into that situation so I thought the Leonard Silk and that is the first of Kayambo who spoke not as the minister according to him but as a lawyer and so he was talking law and so we also have to follow him with the express provisions of the law that actually contradicted his position he held yesterday on channels television. Now when he went, because a lot of people who may not necessarily understand the law and the different sections and of course the fact that he was referring to the tribunal of enquiries the people who are also wondering that if he is dismissing this panel is he dismissing this panel and dismissing the government including the reasons why this panel was set up is he trying to send a message to Nigerians including the governor of Legos state who set up that panel and the members of the panel which includes a senior advocate of Nigeria is he dismissing every single day and hour that was expended on that panel of enquiry or to investigate all that happened during that leaky toll plaza situation or incident is he saying that none of this will see the light of day is he also saying that if this report is taken up it will not hold water in court is this what he's implying? I don't, that's why many Nigerians are really expressing shock at that expression yesterday and of course it can see that the social media is clearly agog with regards to that statement that Firstos Kayamo posited yesterday it's clearly shocking Firstos Kayamo never raised any issue as to the legitimacy or illegality of that panel when it was constituted and never see any of his right or any public opinion in which he has actually said that the panel shouldn't have been set up in the first place remember that this panel came as a result of an emergency meeting of a National Economic Council that was presided over by the linear the senior advocate of Nigeria the current vice president of the country Professor Yemi Osiba just senior advocate of Nigeria and many other important personalities in Nigeria that make up that council they came up with the idea that in the light of the ensign's protest and then the aftermath effect and all the hoods and cries that it is important that a panel be set up to address and hear what these young men you know that true and young ladies that troop into the street what were their grievances and see what we can do to address them and it was consecrated upon that and the governor's agreed that something has to be done because these things are rules from their various states and so there was a consensus that the panel of inquiry should be set up and Freda Gourmet should also set up their own I think it was under the Human Rights Commission that also set up one in Abuja and so all this while the police, the army all of them attended those panels and submitted to their jurisdiction and gave evidence and so for somebody now just because he was invited to a national television to now say that everything that happened those panels were clearly illegal and a waste of time clearly shocking and I don't know the basis upon which you know but I want to say this since the panel's report in Lagos was made public I have here several persons running helpers trying to deny the truth of what was recommended or what was their findings and so they try as much as possible for us to believe the lie that there was no death and it's shocking because that was not only what happened in Lagos it was set up to address the issue of human right violation and secondly it was after the death that occurred in Lakey Phase 2 that Lagos had added the issue of Lakey Toge it wasn't the first issue but nobody's even addressing the issue because the findings of the panel indicted the army and police for the shooting that took place so they try to make us believe that there was no shooting there was no death whatsoever and that's why they are coming out with all these manner of manipulations and statements which clearly will be to the Lagos State Government not to actually obey whatever has been recommended that is actually what I'm beginning to see with all these posturance that is going on first with Lai Mohamed and now with Festos Kiamo who happens to be a minister but who denied that he's no longer talking like a minister that he's only speaking as a lawyer so I think that it's about the indictment that was found that was found in that recommendation of the panel or the findings of the panel that is making them to do everything in order to rubbish what has been the findings of that panel that is my take in this Okay Bacitaminola I'm going to toss the question to you now Dr. Bani here is implying that the Federal Government or Government officials are trying to rubbish the report that had been submitted by this Lagos State Panel by the way I always like to plug in that different panels were set up we've not heard anything from those panels including that in your state but then Lagos State has decided to send out this report they presented it to the Governor why do you think Mr. President asked that these panels be set up but then again allegedly is trying to rubbish the report well it's a human right fundamental thing is his job and that puts the Government in a bad light on the incident it took place in Lagos State and constitutes a panel it is the constitutional use in law in the state just before we continue I think that you're in a very echoey place so we're struggling to hear you it's very echoey where you are I would ask that you go to some place else that is not as echoey but I want to also add to the issue of the statements that he made he talked about the fact that this massacre that is being referred to in the panel's report is only in context what do you think he meant by that because this has also been a subject of debate by Government aides saying that the Minister of Information has continuously said over and over that there was no massacre at the tour gate recently he referred to the report as tales by moonlight the incidences one thing we've got to appreciate in this country is that the Government pays very less attention to the issue of welfare security which is the primary responsibility of any Government that is there even if it is only one life that has been killed it has been killed it has been a responsibility that it is high but our society is so depraved in such a manner that even if you are installed these security facilities it's not impossible that somebody will still go and ensure that at least in order to survive the course of justice that things that ought to be for the government to say that it's just a matter of purpose the agencies if you take it to the arena to start shooting sporadically the evidences are there the footages are there CNN carried the footages to the effect that innocent citizens of Nigeria were shot at without any defence of any type so it's unfortunate back to you Dr Bani let's look at the implications of this report that has been given to the Lagos State Government I remember that the same week when that report was presented as a governor the federal government released a statement saying that they don't necessarily have to the report is not supposedly to be presented to them but what happens to the report because Nigerians are very curious people want to know what happens yes the report has been presented to the governor they are going to do due diligence that will be involved in getting justice especially for the victims of this police brutality and of course the killings at the toll gate we have to actually adhere strictly to what the Lagos State Government said when the report was handed over to the governor I remember that he set up there and then a former committee that is headed by his attorney general and according to him they have to review the findings of the panel and after which they will issue a white paper that white paper will actually be a roadmap to implement in whatever recommendation has been made by the panel so it may be very premature for me now to guess what they want to do in the circumstance but I think that the best thing we need to offer now is an advice that it is in the interest of the Lagos State Government not to rubbish the findings of the panel that they set up they made so many promises when they set up this panel and many Nigerians did not believe them some of us went out of our way to really cajole and advise Nigerians to hold on that the government would not in any way fell in this regard because it is a matter of public interest lives were lost there were violations of rights and there was so much tension in the land that it is out of the hope of those violations is an accumulated anger and we felt that the only way to redress that injustice is for government to intervene which is what they did by setting up the panel and the panel has made out their findings and recommendations it will be very wrong now for the same government that made those promises that made people to believe that they were genuine in really re-addressing the issue of injustice and grievances that were expressed by those young ones I don't believe I hope this believe that the Lagos government will leave all the expectation by issuing a white paper that will lead to the finding of the lasting solution to this problem that is what I think despite all the hulalaba of whatever is going on all the noise there has to be a precedence of sorts why should Nigerians trust the process now yes we have seen that this the panel has done its bit of consulting the hues and the cries is there anything any shred of hope that the average Nigerian can hold on to being that politicians in this country have made promises and they failed to fulfill those promises so why should we start now to have hope it's an intelligent question if they fail in this regard it goes to add to all the evidence of lack of trust that they generate themselves and that nobody trust them so it will be an additional aspect of evidence that this government never meant well in the first place as my learning friend has pointed out the primary responsibility of any government is actually the protection of life and property and the welfare of the people now that issue of welfare came up and government set up a panel to address that grievance and that panel has made findings and recommendations will it be right for that same government to just rubbish all the money all the time everything that was spent in now making a finding to address that injustice so I want to still believe that we should give them that opportunity to do the right thing rather than me now jumping to conclusion and I say oh I'm not going to believe them there is no basis for that there have been instances where they have failed but this is going to be additional aspect of this evidence that this government never meant well in the first place when they campaign in 2014 and 15 if they fail to and we are waiting for them in 2023 so I don't believe that the current governor Shaolu after all the time he has wasted with these professionals retired justice seen as making of Nigeria the civil rights society group the young ones they all came together they sat for several months without you know I know some of them that couldn't even attend any program because of this particular sitting they considered it very important more than the other thing and then after the whole exercise it comes with a different thing it will be very very shocking it will be clearly unbelievable All right quickly we have just one more minute Baista itamonola why do you think that there is so much push and shove as a result since after this report has been submitted is there anything that the federal government is afraid of look the president as the state government the legal state government is part of the administration of president my imposition will come out but this government disobeying the government has stated no matter what you are talking I mean it is one thing for the body to come it is another thing for legal state government no confidence even me these documents from this panel will just go into the trash bin well I hope that they prove you wrong Kristi Tamonola Mandil Bani thank you very much for being part of the conversation thank you thank you for having us well thank you all for staying with us we will take a quick break and when we return we are looking at the cost of living in Nigeria because the Christian Association of Nigeria is saying that we might be experiencing multi-dimensional suffering stay with us