 Southern Governors believe Nigeria's next presidents come 2023 should be from their region. And Minister of Niger Delta Affairs Gotswila Kwaibriu urges the National Assembly to pass the Petroleum Industry Bill, PIB, irrespective of the percentage of revenue allocated to all producing communities. This is Post-Politics and I am Mary-Anna Collins. Governors of the southern states have said Nigerian security agencies must inform a state governor before embarking on any operation in the territory. The governors also issued a communique stating that the southern part of the country should produce the next Nigerian president. The communique was issued at the end of the meeting which was held in Lagos. They reaffirmed the forum's commitment to the unity of the country, etc. Joining us to discuss this is Ladikwa Johnson, he is a political analyst. And Baba Shola Adebu, who is a political analyst. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you, good evening. Thank you for inviting. Alright, so I'm going to start with you Ladikwa. We're going to pick it one after the other. So as opposed to what other governors in the northern part of the country think, the governors in the southern region started by affirming their commitment to the unity of the country. They talked about the pillars of equity, fairness, justice, peace and progress, coexistence amongst its people. Even though a stance that it took some months ago when it first met as the southern governors forum, they talked about the open outright ban of open grazing. Now that was seen as an affront of sorts to the governors in the northern part of the country. So putting it side by side with them talking about their reaffirmation of commitment to the unity of the country, what message do you think they're trying to communicate to the northern forum? By the way, they also had their forum today, the northern governors. Well, excuse me. I believe the communique yesterday, yesterday's communique was one that anticipated or learnt from the last one and made sure that within the context of where we're at, and that's the arrest of Named Kanu and the Boho Saga. They wanted to ensure that no one would misinterpret anything they came up with, with the issue of seceding or being apart from Nigeria. So they reaffirmed their belief in the unity of the country, but based on equity and fairness, because the agitations that we've had from various parts of the country did not just drop out of the sky. It's mainly because their people, that's the people of the south, whether the southeast, south-south to a lesser extent, and the southwest, are not really happy with the federated relationship we have at the moment. And that is why I believe it was couched in that manner. I just want to push you on this. When you say that they're trying to make sure that they're firm, that there's no support for this ethnic tensions that we're facing, do you not think that the government also have a role to play in these agitations that have been happening? Take, for example, Kaduna State. Take, for example, again, certain other parts of the country where governors seem to maybe be fueling some of those cracks. I don't know, I'm just saying, could governors not be playing a role in it, because it's very easy to point fingers at the presidency. Exactly. But it's happening in your backyard. Exactly. The governors are playing a role even down to the local governments. Once you have bad governance, it's contributed in one way or the other to the frustrations being felt by the average Nigerian. And these things have led to an over swell of emotions. And then you have a lot of people now saying, oh, well, we're better off alone. And when you ask them, okay, what form of government? They don't even know. They just believe that they're better off alone. But I feel that back to your question, all arms of government, well, not all arms, but all tiers of government, especially the executive and the legislature, have a role to play and have played a role in making us not so happy as it were. Yeah. I talked about this yesterday when we were talking about voter education with my guests yesterday. The average Nigerian, when things go bad, whether it's Lagos data and people are robbing us in traffic, we quickly say, why is government? This country is bad because of Buhari. I'm not holding brief for President Buhari, but how many people make sure that their governors or their local administrators see to the issues of the problems that they're facing instead of pointing the fingers at the presidency? We know that there's a lot of bulk passing, but does this not fall down to the fact that we're not, we're ill-equipped with information as to who really governs us and where we should be channeling our problems to? Well, for me, I think for those that are actually at this Buhari government, they have a reason. Because Nigeria, as it is, we are practicing a military system. And the president has the full power to determine how the security of this country should be around. Unfortunately, the state governors, whom are called the security officers of the states, have limited power. Although they haven't got the security which most of us don't even know what they do with this county vote. But however, the question is, what power does the governor ask over the commissioner of police? I'm very sure the commissioner of police. That's a place that we don't want to go tonight, because it's a whole cattle official on its own when you talk about the governor being the chief security name on paper only, and the fact that these security chiefs have to wait for order from above, that's a totally different conversation. But anyway, you were making a point. Yes. On that, you know, what the states are doing, especially those of us from the state, the northern parts, they already have their own state police who are monitoring everything. They are called Ishbach. Not these Sharia police, you know, those things. They actually act as policemen in the northern states. So my question is, why is it difficult for the Sardinians to have their own security apparatus in the state? Yes, some of them came out with what we call the amotecum. It could have many states actually have such a replication of amotecum in their state. How many, what is the capacity of amotecum in each state? Even in Sardinia, I think they call it ESN also. I can't remember the name of it. The one that is official is a Bubagu. ESN is an offshoot of IPOM. So if we have enough hands in security, actually it is the responsibility of the state governor to ensure full security in the state, to ensure the protection of the people of everyone living in the state. Looking at what is happening in legal states, let me just look at legal states at Kistodi. In legal states, we have what we call the Legal State Neighbor Safety Code or whatever. We have put in strategic leases, once they see anything that is going abnormal, it is the responsibility to contact the security unit in the state. How many places are the security officers? How many of them do we actually have in state? I'm very sure we do not have enough of them because the financial required funds for such are not enough. So the states are just managing what they have of trying to create employment for some people for a period of time. But the state needs to do a lot of things. And I think it's high time the National Assembly needs to look at the state police and ensure the state police is stated in the Constitution. For me, I'm not taking for now, it's yet to be passed at the National Assembly. Let me just quickly bring in the issue that the governor's raised in terms of, I mean I'm sure that this is stemming from the DSS's raid of Sunday Bohus House over the weekend. Now the governors are saying that security agencies have to must in fact inform them before they carry out any raid whatsoever or any arrest in the states. And a lot of people are saying that this is not supposed to be. I was listening to the radio today and I think a police officer said that before any police officer from outside the state comes in to carry out any form of arrest or raid, they have to inform the police in that particular state. But if the governor is a chief security of a state should that also not be... But how many arrests can you really accord the governor or give him notice on? I'm curious to know because if we, for example, for every time the police wants to arrest someone in the state I'm wondering how many letters the governor's office will have but I'm sure you want to weigh in here. Yeah and on that for me the southern governors actually stated the fact but the truth is constitutionally it is not. So if they require such a thing they need to take a move. The commission of police in the state refers to the IG. So if the IG is in charge of all the Nigerian police in all the states across the nation they can move to any state attorney it is the responsibility of the people coming into a particular county to contact the police division in that area. They will get informed that they are coming to this particular area for arrest at a particular time. Why? Because we don't want a situation of... They don't want a situation whereby there will be a counter attack. You know if there is no information I heard from the headquarters to the division police post there will be a counter attack between the two of them. So for me the state governors actually wanted something that what happened in what happened in what is called impardon will not repeat itself but they have to take a step by contacting the incentives who are the national assembly to pass a bill in the national assembly whereby the state governors must be empowered to have security information about their state and also to be carried along in respect of what is happening in their state. Great. You are a lawyer. So let's talk about what the constitution says in regards to this because he said it's not constitutional for governors to be reported to every time there wants to be a raid whether it's from the DSS whether it's from the police but what does the constitution say in this regard what the governors are asking for is it constitutional or is it something with the members in the national assembly? Well the fact is that the matter hasn't been tested yet you haven't had governors who have taken it up officially the constitution is quite clear when it says that the governor is the chief security officer of the state now the police operate under the inspector general and it is the president that appoints them you understand the inspector general through the president or what have you and then they report to the state governor say the commission of police reports to the state governor but in practical sense in the practical sense of it all the governor will not say do this if he feels that it is not something expedient or political then that commissioner he or she would most likely contact the inspector general and therein you have your problem so is that the operational side of it is it in conflict with what the constitution says the governor being the chief security officer of course the legal argument is simple if it is the constitution supersedes it you understand me but as I say it hasn't been tested and practically speaking as was said earlier we operate virtually a unitary system of government we do not appreciate our democracy we are still fooling ourselves and you find that at the end of the day the governors are like toothless bulldogs but of course in this communique the governors were also emphasizing on state police which he spoke about they talked about funds that are deducted from the federation accounts for the nidra police security trust need to be distributed amongst states and the federal government to combat security but then it brings into question what we call the security votes I mean you are asking for more money when you can't even account for security votes is the federal government accounting for its own security votes? but of course they are all part of this conversation if we must have this conversation you say if we must have the conversation you must look at it and say look what is going to the federal why is this going to the federal you understand let me say the petroleum industry why are you saying that this amount should go or let me jump again the value added tax the example I always use value added tax from Lagos from the breweries why would it go to a state like cano that is busy breaking bottles they say they don't believe in the sale of alcohol from the taxes from alcohol in the southern part of the country so if we want to have the conversation and that is what the governors are trying to have but they are still their hands are still in gloves they are not hitting out and they are not saying it as it is either because of party affiliation or one thing or the other the bottom line is that that is why people are calling the state police for true federalism whatever name restructuring whatever name you want to call it people are saying that we have to either renegotiate our federating relationship that is it a lot of us still believe in the entity called Nigeria because we believe that numbers are strength and we will all benefit from the numbers if we operate it properly but it is obvious the past few years have shown us that things are not operating properly yet people do not want to talk about it and when we say people we mean all of us but then it has to be people who actually know what is in the constitution and I keep saying we ban the words like we are illiterate but how many people really understand what the constitution is like I said yesterday the average person is concerned about how he is going to get food on his table he is not worried about what is in the constitution but then we have the NBA we have civil society we have activists what are these people doing to put pressure because for example the NBA knows exactly what is in the constitution I do not understand if we do really have a form of lobbying in Nigeria who are you lobbying to push bills like this to push conversations like this on the National Assembly because we wait until situations like this come up then we now say oh we have to have this conversation who has been pushing for these conversations to be had I keep saying when people say they are calling for a sovereign national conference I keep saying we have a sovereign conference going on every four years once the National Assembly is sovereign you voted for them keep them on their toes give them your demands if they do not act then you remove the person now people who are going to say oh it has been naive can you do anything during elections they will rig it, they will do this they will do that but it has to start somewhere and people have to get involved we the people have to get involved we have to make sure that we set the agenda for instance elections are coming now now you would be amazed that those who know will probably not get involved that is what normally happens the percentage of people that registered voters that came out last time was about 25% or less they do not get involved those who do not know and who choose to collect the rice and the Ankara and the Pamuel and the Naira and they do not give a damn about what the constitution says or what should happen it is unfortunate but talking about the constitution let me come to you Baba Shala you know that yesterday everybody people were on social media hashtags pushing for members of the Nigerians to start calling their representatives and their senators as to the exclusion of certain important aspects of the electoral act bill that is about to be pushed for consent to Mr President the fact that the electronic transmission of the electoral results from the electoral act has been removed this has also arranged the governments the governors also included this in their communique in fact I would like to read exactly what the communique said it said in order to consolidate our democracy and strengthen the electoral process the southern governors for him reject the removal of the electronic transmission of election results from the electoral act and also reject the confirmation of exclusive jurisdiction in pre-election matters on the federal high court I'd like to hear your thoughts you see I think this government this government is not actually taking off out of progress we are going backward in everything why should a group of people think that the best thing they can do from the electoral act is to remove the electronic voting does that really mean that you are fine with the manner things we are doing the electronic transmission as far as we are concerned and most people I believe are on my side we are is the best way to do it when you do manner transmission a lot of things can happen I participated in the last election and I know what happened in two words that I contested in the state in particular two words the total votes I gathered from that particular one is what was declared as the total vote for the states you know it means that we are not ready for the truth we have only gathered a group of people who are in the national assembly to make money to be able to collect money, get connection contract and maybe feed their people so that they can continue to pay in power because I really don't get it manner transmission anything can happen the towns who's the higher the whatsoever the polling unit scatter the place collect the sheet from them write whatever they want to write but when you have the electronic transmission you input it there and it goes to the central database yes I'm not saying that doesn't have zone disadvantage yes it can be manipulated but at the same time with the manipulation you can really limit the manipulation so for me the national assembly needs to withdraw that thing and put back the electronic transmission for the high courts where I think we already have the tribunal who is already doing the job of the high court so if there is any matter okay the tribunal comes in after the election sorry the tribunal comes in after the election so for me I really don't understand why the better high court issue is removed the better high court issue is removed is it that whoever has an electoral election and matter will go to the high court or the supreme court maybe the lawyer can play part on that exactly I saw him tapping on the table so I want to find out exactly what the governors are saying is that I think the the electoral law is saying that for pre-election matters that the federal high court should have exclusive jurisdiction okay that potents two things one a lot of the state high courts may be very very busy right? that's on the ordinary up and upside and that's why they want it that way on the other hand and forgive me for saying this people members of the bar may not like it it may be that the governors so that it doesn't seem I'm supporting the governors all the time the governors may feel that they may not have so much influence because they do not appoint federal high court judges they appoint the state high court judges so they might have some influence on the judges regarding party primaries in their state you're beginning to see you're beginning to see the picture that's an interesting twist to it but then of course these are you know fine lines in between you might argue the other way that the federal would have on due influence over the federal high court judges you might have unfortunately we're still at that stage look at the election in America the judges Donald Trump horribly appointed to the Supreme Court ruled against him well that's because there is some independence of the judiciary but in Nigeria we call things we append independence at the beginning of the names of certain government agencies but then we don't really see those finally gentlemen because we're out of time I'm just going to give you 30 seconds and I'll give you 30 seconds let's quickly comment on the PIB the governors had spoken about the industrial the petroleum industry law they commended the progress that has been made but of course they rejected the 3% that was proposed and support the 5% share of all revenue to the host communities even though there's still people who are asking for more for the 5% and personally I don't have any issue with that 5% but my concern is the 30% of the share of profit that will now be diverted to the exploration of oil and gas in the business in other words the resources the profit being made from the south south you now take it to the north for exploration in Bono, Shokoto Chad all those business exploring for oil 30% of the profit so what happens to the all communities area so for me I think they need to do a lot of things about that if not that will be issue most especially from the south south we are taking 30% the the share from the federation account is not enough now you want to take additional 30% from there to the north and develop the north it's totally wrong it's unacceptable for me I am against it okay I align myself with what he said I feel that the 5% in the context of where we are at at the moment is too small too little and it must be more people must benefit more from the resources in their communities in their areas and those are you see it is going to be a process that is either restructuring or whatever true federalism is a process and this is part of the process it won't happen overnight so I believe that they should have pushed for something more more than the 5% you understand thank you very much for being part of the conversation I appreciate you all for staying with us we'll take a short break now and when we return what is the correct percentage for all revenue or producing communities they have more percentage as my guests have said we are speaking to southern gentlemen on the patrinum industry bill for access to this break