 Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the non-profit show. This is Frye as Jarrett Ransom likes to say, and we love Fridays because it's our special, special ask-and-answer episode with our friends over at Fundraising Academy, headquartered at National University. Really fortunate because every Friday we get a different voice from Fundraising Academy. They come in, come on, and they answer questions that folks submit, and it's really, really cool. Moohi, right before we came on air, I got a question today that was asked. We didn't have a get a chance to put it on our slides, but we'll- Curveball. Yeah, it's like total curveball. Yeah. It's a question that's never been asked before, and so I'm really excited to try and remember it and then discuss it with you. That'll be fun. As I said, we're really fortunate to get somebody different every Friday. Today, we have Moohi Kwaja coming to us from, where are you today? Michigan. Michigan. I also said the other M word. Michigan. Okay. Michigan, well, we are thrilled to have you. If you joined us on our Green Room chatter, we were talking with Moohi about he's going to be coming in January to talk about his experience as the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation. I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's going to be fascinating, and I can't wait to learn more from you, Moohi, about that, because it's an amazing system we have. Speaking of systems, we have folks that have been with us from day one. We started now three years plus ago, and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, of course Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, non-profit nerd, and non-profit tech talk. If you have missed any of our 900-plus episodes, no problem. You can pull them up on our fabulous new app. You can find us on streaming or podcasts. My personal favorite Moohi is to speak into your smart remote. Let's say the non-profit show, and we'll come up on your giant TV. That's rocking. It's a little appalling to see yourself that big. I just got a man up to that, but it's cool to see it. So again, wherever you'd like to consume your content we'll be with you. Okay, Moohi, this comes to us from Cheryl from San Francisco, kind of your old stomping grounds. Yeah, and so the question is this, while this may seem like an accounting question, how do we account for bequests or estate gift promises? I have been doing a lot of work on this, and I don't want my development goals to be overlooked at the end of the year. Interesting question. Definitely very interesting. I believe when I was at the Red Cross, we had a separate plan-giving team, and they would count it towards that year's fundraising goals. So every shop may do it differently, but if you are feeling like your goals are going to be overlooked, I would still suggest to count it. Whether you do it as a soft credit for now, a hard credit, those are things that you and your team can discuss. But again, when I was at Red Cross, we had a whole separate team, and sometimes there were intermingling of portfolios and credit would have to be transferred to the plan-giving team, even if it was somebody who was in your portfolio that you stewarded and those types of things. So I would definitely keep doing your homework on it, Cheryl, and see what other organizations do and see what works best for your organization. So, Moe, let me ask you this in a hypothetical, and maybe this happened to you. You're working with a donor and you've got a great relationship and they're giving and everything's great, and then you meet with them for coffee one day and they're like, oh, hey, by the way, I just met with my trust officer and attorney and I've left you a little something-something. What do you do at that point, given that you have this other team and like you said, co-mingling information or funds, is it appropriate to push on that or what do you do? Yeah, and having a conversation around, are there going to be gifts that are coming in during your lifetime going forward or is this a trust where it's like a remainder trust or a annuity trust and see what the different options are? If the trust is involved, it's most likely going to the plan giving team, but if there are still personal giving in addition to the trust or the will, then it may stay within the portfolio. But again, that's something that a manager would figure out or at Red Cross, the national headquarters would kind of develop the strategy and then allow the chief development officers and regional vice presidents to figure out how to best navigate that for the teams. Because I can imagine if it was like just an off the cuff, by the way, I've left you a little something versus, I want you to meet with my attorneys or my trust officers. I mean, that's like a completely different strategy and amount of information, right? Yeah, and more than likely it would end up with the plan giving team, especially with the trust being involved, even if they casually mentioned it, then it would be up to that plan giving officer to steward that relationship going forward for that intended plan gift. Okay, well, it's, you know, Cheryl, good for you for keeping track of this. And I like Louie's idea of separating it out at some degree so that you can also alert, if you will, your team. Maybe it sounds like they don't have a planned giving department. And so just to let everybody know there's a place where this information is kept and there should be a place where this information is kept. Yeah, that you can, you know, go forward because as we know, Moohi, we talk about this a lot. You know, there's the aging of America. There's so much opportunity for planned giving. And I, you know, I think American donors are looking for this specifically. And so what does that look like and how do we manage it? Yeah, need to be talking about this. Okay, now you know how I feel about name with health questions. I love or die by them. Okay, this came from Orange County, very, very prosperous part of our country in Southern California. So it's how do you feel about having all members of the development team's goals reported out to the group? We never did this before, but at the first of the year, our DD wants development director. Once this number to be shared, a few of us are super angry about this and feel it will add to our stress levels. Never had this question before. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. And again, at American Red Cross, there would be a national report that you could see your colleagues from all across the country and what their percentage to goal is. So from a corporate standpoint, individual standpoint, they trapped it all and they shared it all. So definitely within the region of like the Pacific Coast, we had those numbers across the entire team, but then there were ways to see it nationally as well. You know, you have to go and understand why you're feeling super angry and why you feel it will add to your stress levels. You know, maybe you feel like it's added pressure maybe you feel like it's unfair because somebody who may be getting paid more than you is less to their goal than you are or you've raised with other people. There's a lot of things at play and to factor into this. But I think from a development standpoint, at least the directors, at least the senior C-suite level folks should know these numbers. For frontline fundraisers, if you want to keep that one-on-one, I can definitely understand that, but I don't think there's any harm if it's not being used in a negative way. I think more information is good information. You can work on collaborating with your teammates, talk more about what issues they're running into if they're not to their goal or on track to meet their goal. So a lot of context is needed here, but I can see where they're coming from. So let me ask you two follow-up questions. Did you ever see this as a gender issue, like reporting out, because it seems to me women are more afraid about talking about money and I'm wondering if that's the case. This literally came into me with a name without, so I don't know the gender. I'm assuming it's a woman, just because the way it was written. And that's just a total assumption. It seems to me, yeah. A total assumption. So that's one question. And then my next question is, how did you respond to this? Was it positive? Did it get you going? How did it work with your mindset? I think new things can be scary. So on the gender part, I don't know whether somebody who is male or female feels more inclined to this. I think anxiety and stress affects everybody. I would say that I never, and maybe it's just my mindset, but I never thought of it as a fear-inducing or stress-inducing thing. I knew that year end, December timeframe, I'm going to hit or exceed my goal. And I knew in my portfolio, I had 10 people who were going to get me like 80% to my goal. So I focus on those 10 people. And if you're focusing on those people that are going to get you the majority of your goal, that's what's important here. And feel bold enough to push back at the right times with your portfolio and your managers and saying, like, you're owning this relationship and you're expecting it to come based on the information you've received from the donor. Of course, if you haven't heard from the donor, there are things that you need to consider there and what are the factors that are leading to that. And that would cause me more stress, not the fact that my percentage is being written and other people on the team know about it. Thankfully, I have a performance of goal issue. And maybe that's to do with the red cropping such a well-recognized brand. Or it could have been that I was that awesome of a relationship manager. I don't know. Who's to say? Well, I think it's an interesting thing. For me, to hear you say it's about your mindset and start there first and to understand that change is hard and why are you feeling anxious about this and then being able to articulate that. I think that's a healthy thing. Not just for this question, but probably just along the trajectory of one's career. So I think that was really wise and it'll be really interesting to see. Sometimes we get comments back about answers and so it'll be fascinating to find out if we get folks that have an opinion about this and we welcome that because it's such an interesting thing to be talking about. And I think as we become more strategic in our nonprofit management, we have more dashboards, we have more technology that we're engaging in, this is going to be the reality. It's going to be more than just using a spreadsheet. So I kind of think that's where we are. Okay, well, let's go to... Thank you, Moohi. Let's go to Marco in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And Marco writes, as we look forward to the next year, how important is it to have our board members all re-sign policies? We have not had any document or legal changes, but the policies our members signed were dated for the 2023 year. That's an interesting one. If your documents haven't changed, like there haven't been any amendments, there haven't been any additional things that would differentiate what they had originally signed. I think it's still binding, but I'm not a lawyer. And I know, for instance, like the American Muslim Community Foundation at one point had updated our by-laws. So we needed new signatures and people to sign on. We have an NDA, but we do that once they sign on. And we do orientation once they sign on. And an annual meeting where we review documents, but we don't have them sign it again. Okay. So conflict of interest policy as well. So definitely, yeah, we haven't had them re-sign in the new year, but I'd be curious as to why Marco feels that way. Yeah, so my sense of it is, number one, always get this done in December. So that starting January 1st, you're good to go. Because a lot of us start, I mean, I never think of a board that I sat on where this stuff didn't get done in January. And so by the time it really gets executed and everything, it's February. So back up, do it in December, so you get it done in January, no matter what you're doing. My sense of this is, and I'd love your opinion on this, Muihi, is that if you do this every year, you have the most updated signature and commitment and level of understanding. And even though it hasn't changed, it's almost like a reminder or reinforcement as to what's going on. Like that COI, the NDA, especially when you're talking about funds and your development issues that can get really personal. And then if you work in an organization that serves children or minors, you have additional things, you have HIPAA laws, depending if you're serving in the medical field. I don't know, Muihi, it just seems to me like they should be reinstituted every year. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think there's any harm to doing it. So I'll leave it at that. It's a lot of work. Right. I think if you get it all done at one, and you do it in that time frame where everybody knows, maybe you communicate to your board, okay, remember we're going to execute these documents, come early or we're going to put them up on our board portal or whatever, so that you have them. I do believe firmly these things must be in place for January 1. I really do. I just think I think you put too much stress on your team and the compliance issues get haywired if it's not done in advance. So that's kind of my two cents. Okay, let's go to Richard in Colorado Springs. I bet Richard's getting some snow today. I'm a new CEO and have been thinking about instituting a new program where I do a check-in with each board member monthly. This would be a phone call with the goal of making sure we are encouraging board member engagement. Do you think this is a good idea? You know, I would love to see this happen at so many organizations. And you know, what is the board meetings look like? Are they quarterly? Are they annually? Are they monthly? So bimonthly, like what is the cadence? And do committees meet more regularly? What benefit if you outweigh it? Like what are the updates that you're doing? And it might be, it seems like these would be individually. And maybe for the first three to six months, you do this and get a feel for it, especially as a new CEO strengthening those ties. Yeah, of course you want to be reporting to the board president and other leadership. Yeah, I think it's a good first step, Richard. Do you need to do it ongoing indefinitely? Maybe not. But again, that depends on the cadence of different meetings and structures that you have in place. Yeah, I think that's why his advice. I think I like that. I hadn't thought of that movie about looking at it as something that you're doing because you're new, or doing it because it's a practice that you're situating up for your board. I had a really interesting conversation with the CEO of a very large foundation recently. And he was telling me that he has, when you look at his board, that's not terribly large, but it's a good size. Plus committee meetings at the board members, committee areas at the board members serve, he has 33 meetings a month, just with his board. And I was like, dude, that's too much. And this, I was just astonished by it. And I don't know how you'd get around that unless January 1, you instituted something new and you're trying to refine stuff. But it seems to me, Richard, you can go a couple different ways. I like Mookie's advice on this because it's just too much of a time suck if you're not having a meeting where you're refining what it is. But this is my opinion, how the board member can engage and serve you, right? But if it turns into like a kind of a bitch session, then I think that's just really negative. I mean, like super negative. So that would be kind of a hard thing to do. Okay, my friend, are you ready for this wackadoo question that came in this morning? I've been waiting for ever since you mentioned it. I shouldn't say wackadoo. That's terrible. Okay, this is the question is that it was emailed to me and now it better be name withheld. Yeah, because it came from an institution's email. No name associated. So they took off their signature line. So anyway, long story short, this is the question. The question is, or was, isn't was, can an institution serve as a board member? Specifically, a trust. This is a legal issue. And so, I don't feel like I have the right answer, but my first reaction, Muhe, was no because of the fiduciary responsibility and some of the reporting stuff. Like, so for example, we were just talking about signing a COI, conflict of interest, a HIPAA document, board policy, bylaw, whatever. And so, my first reaction is, no, it's not smart. It doesn't build accountability. If you want a trust, you can have somebody representing that. Joe's a member of such and such trust, but I don't think an entity, no, I've never heard of that. Yeah, I hadn't heard of it either, but would the board seat be open to anyone at the institution, only advisors at the institution or trust? I've seen where organizations do have board seats, but that rotation of the person is different annually or by term. So, it's an interesting concept. I wonder how it would be executed and yeah, I'll say it. It's a bit where I could do. It is. It really is. And the thing of it is, Muhe, I believe in the magic of looking at somebody in their eyes, that whole mono-a-mono thing, who's signing on the dotted line, who's the direct leader who can make a decision or engage in a decision. And it seems to me, it's a little nebulous when you have an organization. Now, I've sat on plenty of boards where somebody was representing their company, and as a leader, but at the end of the day they were signing on the dotted line or making the decision, voting, all the things that they needed to do. And sometimes that would be blurred with the organization that they represented. And sometimes it wouldn't be. It was such an interesting question. I mean, truly, I had to read it a couple times because I was trying to figure out what the background scenario could have been. And all I could think of is it's a funder. Yeah, that would make most sense. And again, rotating the person on term by term would make the most sense to me. Yeah, I think you're smart. I really, really like that. Well, yet again, Muhe Kuwaja, you have wowed us with your brilliance and your measured and steady response. I always love your comments and your perspective because they're different from everybody else in so many ways. Muhe Kuwaja, trainer from Fundraising Academy. Also, dare I say more interestingly, the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation, which if you were on earlier, we were chatting. We're going to have Muhe come on. Is it January 8th? I believe so. Okay, good. In early January to talk about his work as a co-founder of a major system in America that promotes philanthropic giving and philanthropic management. And so I'm really looking forward to this conversation because so many of us work with community foundations, large and small. And it's just really a fun topic, I think, to get involved with. So thank you, Muhe, for joining us on January 8th. Again, Fundraising Academy. You can check them out online at fundraising-academy.org. And you can see amazing content that they have and a lot going on there. Muhe, are you going to be at Cultivate in May? Definitely. Wouldn't miss it for the world. Okay, can you tell us a little bit about what's going to be going on at Cultivate? Oh, yes. We have our call for submissions until the end of the year. So if you're interested in presenting, definitely get that in. We have different tracks on trends and technology and various other components that we'd love to hear from you on. And this is year two. We had a very successful Cultivate in 2023 with over 150 people coming and learning and networking together. And that's what it's about, to give people in the local San Diego area and people who want to travel to San Diego the opportunity to learn, have more professional development, refresh, reconnect, and build on what they are doing in their careers. And you sold out last year, right? So when the ticketing opens up, which will be shortly, you've got to jump on it, because there's only so much room at the table, as we like to say. Our timeline is hopefully February. So I can't give an exact date, but keep your eyes peeled for those Cultivate tickets. Awesome, really exciting. I think we're going to be broadcasting one of the days there, and Jared Ransom will be there. So that'll be amazing. Hey, again, everybody, we are here because we have amazing partners that cultivate us. And they include Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. Again, these folks join us day in and day out. And they also help share the message that we like to end every show. And especially during the holidays, where things get really kind of crazy and stressful, and the message goes like this, to stay well, so you can do well. Ruby, thank you so much.