 and welcome another episode of The Nonprofit Show. If you have joined us again, you joined us yesterday, you will see that Tony Bell is our guest again today. This is drill down part two of understanding donor approaches. So welcome back to The Nonprofit Show where Tony Bell is our guest. And we will talk more with Tony about the additional approaches that tie on to yesterday's conversation. Julia Patrick is here, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Thanks for letting me join the two of you on part two, day two. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. And we are so very honored to have the continued support from so many of our amazing presenting sponsors. So a huge shout out goes to our friends at Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy. Fundraising Academy at National University, again, where Tony joins us from. We also have the support of Be Generous, your part-time controller, Staffing Boutique, nonprofit thought leader, as well as the nonprofit nerd. We encourage you. In fact, I would like to assign you the task to look up these companies after today's conversation with Tony because they're here to help and support you with your mission. And we are so very grateful for their ongoing support. We are marching towards our fourth year. March will be our fourth. And you can find all of our previous episodes on many streaming platforms. Those of you listening, I'll give a call out to Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. And if you are a podcast listener, you can go ahead and queue us up there too. So we are gaining quite the following on our podcast platform. And so grateful to have each and every one of you joining us. However, you receive this information. So again, Tony Bell, welcome back to you, our friend. Tony serves as the Senior Director Relationship Center for the National University. And again, just so lucky to have you here for part two. I keep mentioning part two. So don't worry if you missed part one like I did, you can always go back and watch that recording on this platform. So hello, Tony, welcome. Well, thank you. It's great to see you. I'm so glad that you can join us for part two of our drill down session. Actually, I was like drill down, I felt like I should have on a construction hat or something for these two sessions. I thought of that yesterday just, because I think I saw where one of your guests might have been dressed as Santa. I was gonna say. So I was like, well, evidently, costumes are welcome. So let's really wrap it up. But it is really an honor to be here and to be with you all. And Jared, I loved the like-mindedness in these conversations. And I really appreciate and wanna call out the fact that you said that I serve as the senior director, right? It's not my title, I mean, I serve in this capacity. So I really appreciate that because I definitely take a servant leadership approach to the work that I do. So I wanted to recognize that. That's nice. That's a cool thing. Well, Jared and I have been so enamored when we first met you, now almost four years ago. I know the cause selling cycle and how this works in the ecosystem. We say this all the time. I will repeat it. We know that if we had been educated about this in our early days, that we would have had different outcomes to working with donors. And so it's a powerful, powerful thing. Today we're on the approach part of this, which is part three in the second phase. Can you kind of give us a glimpse of where we are when we're talking about these approaches? Sure, and thank you for providing this graphic. I mean, it certainly demonstrates the cause selling cycle is three phases, eight steps. The drill down around the approach, again, step three. And so what has happened prior to this in most cases if you're following the cycle is you've spent time doing your prospecting, right? You're creating your lists and then you're categorizing them. You're utilizing the Madden test. So we'll mention resources for you to find that later on, but you're utilizing the Madden test for your prospecting. You're getting your ABC candidates lined up and then you're doing your pre-approach research. So right now the approach is that moment of truth. It is that first face-to-face encounter with the potential donor or investor for your organization, whatever face-to-face looks like for you in today's current environment. And so the approach is really kind of the successful, or it's kind of the on-ramp rather, to a successful needs discovery conversation. So it's really where we talk about and provide good strategies on making sure that you have a meaningful first impression. You know, it seems to me like, if you look at this from a different lens, it's about building confidence. When you go in, you're like, okay, I'm confident about this. And that's, yes, yes. I mean, that's one of the, you know, I don't know, this week we've been talking about secret sauce a lot. You know, there's just been a lot of secret sauce conversations, but that is one of the secret sauces of the cause selling curriculum is the level of empowerment that is achieved when you go through this curriculum. And when you, well, I think when you invested any professional learning or professional development, there was a heightened sense of empowerment. And so yes, I think this totally helps support that. Tony, one of the things that comes to my mind, and I feel like it could have been on one of our ask and answer episodes where maybe it was the two of us, you and I doing that episode. And the question was posed to us from one of our viewers and listeners, can you make an ask on the first meeting? And when you think of confidence, I don't know how many of us have walked into a first meeting feeling confident to take that action. And so the cycle, you know, the cause selling education model builds that confidence. And so I think it, you know, it all kind of stacks on top of one another. But I don't know about the two of you, but I've never walked into a first date of, you know, meeting a donor and saying, will you give us a million dollars and feeling confident about that? Like I think that's what happens. No, you know, we talk about it being all about relationships and, you know, and depending on where your relationship is with an individual, you know, you might be able to do that in the first meeting. But we generally talk about that's not what you do at the first meeting. That's right. Yeah, that's right. But I mean, it doesn't happen, but... Yeah, absolutely. And it could be an event where maybe the ask is of all the, you know, the entire group. So yesterday we talked about the donor approaches and there are eight total and that we're going to share. So we're going to move into, you know, today's approaches to build onto yesterday's conversation. I'm excited to learn more and more about them and to hear from you, you know, how we could really support this in our teams of the donor approach. So let's start where we are today with that donor approach number four. And we have on the screen the compliment approach. So Julia, you mentioned the t-shirt that the gentleman's wearing on this screen for those listeners, would you please share what that is? Oh my God, now you're going to freak me out because my Spanish isn't that great. But we have a picture of a young man and he has a t-shirt that says nos amamos porque, which is like we love because. And, you know, it's about, for me, when I saw this graphic I was thinking about, we develop stronger relationships when we have some sort of, you know, to use the words in Spanish, compadre, where we have a companion piece of it, right? And so I was curious, like, does your compliment framework match what I'm thinking? So the compliment, yeah. Yeah, the compliment framework is deeper than Julia, that's a beautiful scarf. Right, thank you. It is a beautiful scarf, but the compliment approach is deeper than that, right? The compliment approach is really talking about the reputation and the work that the potential donor investor has done, from which you can compliment them on or celebrate. We can even call this the celebrate approach, right? Where we are celebrating the work and the actions of the potential donor. And there are many ways that we find out about those things. If you're in a community where there's a society section in the newspaper, a business journal, you see something, you know, an accomplishment that they're sharing on LinkedIn. So it's those, so when we say compliments, it's really those type of deep, meaningful, and again, not that someone's saying that we look good, is it meaningful, but how it connects to the business of the conversation. I'm thinking of it as like a shared, like a shared passion or a shared love, or that we can compliment one another in this approach. I mean, you know, somebody might not have any interest or shared approach or shared values with like arts and culture, but they really like animal welfare or something like that. That's kind of what I was thinking that this meant. Well, and yeah, well, what you said to reminded me that you want to, as best as you can of course, connect the compliment to your cause and how that success, whatever that piece of reputation might be that you're bringing to the surface, how does that connect to the cause and the work that you're doing? You know, as we look in our community, Toni, and I know the three of us do it, I just feel it in my gut and my heart. You know, when there's something that a funder donor investor does for our community, whether it's for the agency that we are currently representing or not, we typically do serve that compliment to say, hey, X, Y and Z foundation or X, Y and Z person, thank you so much for your investment and your support of this program or project. This strengthens our entire community and I'm so very grateful to have you on our team and in our community. And I think that compliment approach, I mean, who doesn't like a compliment? It feels good to receive those. Well, and you said something really important, Jared, is, you know, we're meeting with donors and sometimes these conversations, I'm gonna try and stick to the mission today, but sometimes it's not a good fit. Yeah. Right. But you still want to celebrate their commitment to the community. You still want to celebrate all of the other things that they do. And through that needs discovery, if you find out that they're not right for your organization, refer them to one that might be a good fit. But it's so important that we all embrace and celebrate the successes of all of the organizations that make our communities better. Yes. I love that compliment approach for it. And that really does, and you're right, we're gonna stay on track here, but that really does take us to, you know, the wishes of the donor. And for us as a professional fundraiser, our donors have to be, you know, top and center that it's really their alignment and where they choose to make that impact. So what about a referral approach? I believe that takes us to donor approach, numero cinco, is that right? Okay. Referral approach. Now we're in this Espanol stage, but that's kind of fun. Well, the referral approach can be, you know, can be a very successful and meaningful approach because typically with the referral approach, it's a warmer lead, it's a warmer introduction. And typically with the, when you have someone, you're following the cycle, if you have someone that's a referral, you might move through the cycle a little more quickly as well because they are more likely than not to already be meeting with you with some level of trust in the work that your organization is doing. So that's based on, again, if an individual refers someone and you're connecting with them, there's the other type of referral approach where through your prospecting and pre-approach research, you may see that a potential donor has a relationship with an existing donor. I don't know. I mean, there are many, many ways that you may connect those dots. So during this particular approach, you may mention, by the way, mutual connection ABC on LinkedIn is in the top 5% of our donors. Interesting. And I see that you both, you know, I'm creating too many scenarios in my head. I can't get one out. But that's just kind of an example of how that might work. Tony, I'm curious, does the referral approach, does that also include like a plus one or plus two of an event? So, you know, maybe it's, you know, a breakfast model where they're a table host and then they bring people to the table. Is that part of the referral approach that you might be referencing here? I think that that's a great example of a referral approach. This particular example is really about that one-on-one unless I'm misunderstanding you, but it's really about that one-on-one. Got it. So for your example, which is awesome because I love those types of events. So there, then they become a referral to the development professional that needs to build that relationship to the next level. They committed to the breakfast, they came in, they learned about the organization, they may have made a simple donation, but now they're a warm referral to the development professional that's going to take that relationship to the next level. Further, sure. I love that. I think that's really smart. And they think that kind of puts it into perspective for us because another approach, and it seems like this is one that's really picking up steam is the educational approach. And, you know, it used to be that we would, like if we could make them, if we could get them drunk and we could make them cry, we could get them to donate. I mean, really and truly. And now I think we're like, thank goodness, we're looking more at how can we be using this piece of it? And so I'm really interested to hear what you have to say. Well, it's interesting because when I look at this particular approach, it really is closely connected to approach number two that we talked about yesterday, which was the impact approach. So it's really about those individuals that are data-driven. So you wanna be able to share data, but it's also about elevating yourself so that you're seen as an expert in the eyes of the potential donor or investor. And when we say expert, it goes beyond the expertise of the programs and services that your organization provides, but your expertise and the space in which you're trying to solve a problem. I love that. You know, I love that you tied this into the donor approach number two, which was impact. So impact and educational approach can compliment each other when it comes to this. You know, and I do believe or I've at least seen this and I'm curious from the two of you, I feel like donors are becoming more and more informed and want to be educated on where their dollars go, how it makes an impact to the agency plus that impact to the community and building onto that ripple effect. I honestly, like I have personally seen the knowledge of our donors, I believe have increased and this is of all demographic, age demographics. Have you seen this, Tony? Oh yes, without a doubt. And I was kind of giggling inside because they're being educated, whether they want to or not. And what I mean by that is there's just so much information. Yes. There's just so much information being pushed out that whether they want to become more educated or not, if they are at all interested in philanthropy and giving, they're seeing these subjects and themes around data and impact and outcomes. Absolutely. The events that I've been attending because I'm on the Robert Chicken Circuit, from the last five years, it used to be the testimonial piece would be an emotional, literally sob story kind of thing. For sure. And now we're having scientists, we're having community leaders, we're having people talk about impact. And I think it's fascinating. I think it builds a longer term relationship. It is to your point, Tony and Jared talks about this all the time, what is the problem? What is the solution? And I think it's a much better way to go. I think it has more integrity too. Oh, for sure. Then trying to squeeze somebody, tug at their heartstrings. Well, you know. Yeah. And Julia, hasn't that become the salmon circuit now? Where you're swimming upstream? Well, no. She said the rubber chicken circuit. I think I see more salmon now being served than I see chicken. Yeah, you're right. It's the salmon salad circuit. I'm going to start saying that, Tony. That's so funny. Yeah, that is really good. Well, and the tip there is to always order the vegetarian meal because, you know, it's usually really fresh and good, but we do. Yeah, that is gala pro-chip number one is order the vegetarian meal. Yes, yes, we digress. I love that so much. So the educational approach. I'm curious because, you know, even when I have coached and worked with people, Tony, in regards to grants, I really see this in the written proposal form where you do still tug at those heartstrings, Julia. You do still tell those emotional stories, the success stories, if you will. And then the continued need for that support to have more success stories like fill in the blank of the client, you know, that you've helped. So this educational, how much, like how much data should we put into this, you know, because we think data is sexy, but at some point even I gloss over of like data research and, you know, booklets of information. So what is kind of that fine line that you advise, Tony, that we put into the data? Yeah, so one is like data is sexy. I was thinking it was spreadsheet and lighting incense. But anyway, so I think, you know, it depends. We talked yesterday a little bit about this, too, is when we look at the larger curricula within cause selling, there is the donor styles module as well. And so the donor styles really helps us in this process as well because when we look at the donor style, if we take the time to go through that before we meet with our potential investor, just based on what we know, that donor style will help us define or inform what approach we might want to use. So I answer your question that way because we may find that if we go through that process prior to this, that we're gonna be meeting with somebody that doesn't want a bunch of numbers. Yeah, show me a picture. Show me a picture and intense. You can get more information on the portal, which we'll talk about here. But I'm just gonna do a quick little insert and plug for that portal. No, no, thank you. So again, I would go, what do I wanna say here? I tend to lean into the less is more category. Okay. So enough to get folks interested and wanting to know more. So that then you can follow up with more information. It creates another touch point after this initial meeting. But again, just enough to where they recognize you as the SME in the space. And want to hear more. I love it. Let's get on to the last one of our donor approaches, number seven. And that's the hands on approach. Talk to us about that. Yeah, so within the textbook, and I am actually referring to notes. So unlike the Friday asking answer where it's all just, I'm just waiting at all. I do have some notes here because I would be really mindful of the curriculum and the messaging within the curriculum. Here the curriculum really talks about when you have that moment of truth with the donor and potential donor and you're sitting down and having this conversation, what types of props might you bring along with you? So the example in the textbook is really interesting. That example is where a fundraiser brings a prescription bottle. And says the contents of this bottle is saving X number of children in our community every day. And the research that was required to produce this and just making that part of the story. So that's part of what the hands on, well, that's the hands on example in the textbook. Other hands on examples might be bringing in something created by one of the, many organizations have micro enterprises or just programs where there's arts and you can bring something to show how what students are creating in your classes. Think about for someone that you think is super outgoing and would want a more hands on experience with the organization. And you have a brick and mortar. Think about having that first meeting there. What a great example. I love the prescription bottle and I remember seeing that in the book myself and thinking, wow, this is so impactful. And Julia, I wanna throw out an example that I've learned from you is if you're an arts and culture and you do like a dress rehearsal to invite the donor or potential donor to that really behind the scenes experience to go to the dress rehearsal before there's actually an auditorium if theater full of people. That is a fantastic hands on approach. It's really powerful. I mean, when you get to see how hard it is for dancers to dance, when we sit in a theater, it's just magical and seamless and, wow, that's just lovely. But when you have to see them sweat and how dangerous it is, how dangerous it is with lifts and stuff. Yeah, we've done that a lot and you get just like donors that are like, wow, I had no idea. So, I mean, I think it is that hands on piece that really brings it home. And Tony, it's so interesting as we've talked about this, I see how these really do interact. I mean, you were talking about impact with education and I can see that curiosity to hands on. I mean, I can see that there are links which I don't think I saw that yesterday. Yeah, and one of the things that we mentioned yesterday that's worth repeating is understanding these seven donor approaches allows you in the moment to be able to shift if you need to. So if your first approach is flat, having an understanding of these other approaches allows you to quickly think about what is the next thing I'm going to say that will create the type of reaction that I'm hoping to receive. Love that. And again, I think that builds confidence. If you know, okay, I can, you know, I don't just have to say, oh, I lost it and walk away. That you can say, okay, yeah, let's refine this. That's very empowering to use your word, Tony. Yeah. And as you said, this really supports that successful needs discovery and I cannot help also to thank Tony how this builds the support of the presentation. I believe when we went through that in a previous episode, you and I are very similar in our presentation styles. And, you know, when it comes to the person on your development team, also knowing their presentation style where they're most comfortable to bring in these approaches, right? So there's seven amazing approaches here and donors and investors and supporters I use those words often interchangeably respond differently to all of them as do the three of us here on this conversation. They just really build that confidence which is how we started the conversation is walking into this approach, approaching the donors with the utmost confidence. Absolutely. Yeah. So just as we move through drill down part two, remember the seven big approaches are relevant, impact, curiosity, compliment, referral, education and hands on. And as Tony's demonstrated over these past two days, you know, there's a ying and a yang, there's a way to pivot. We talked about this yesterday and we've talked about this before, you know, you might have two or three people with you. And so one's gonna be responsive to one style and another. And so, you know, this is kind of a living, breathing thing on these donor approaches. So. And that question, I know where I know time's going, but that question that you asked Julia yesterday around a couple, if you know, if you're having this conversation with a couple, is this approach gonna work for both of them? So we did, we talked about, so encouraging folks to go back and revisit yesterday so we talked about how you can often connect two of these approaches to satisfy the two different styles of the folks that you're talking to. Great. So powerful. So powerful. Again, we wish, we wish, Julia and I wish that we had this cause education, sorry, cause selling education model. Clearly it's a mouthful for me today earlier in our career, but understanding these approaches, again, the drill down the part one was yesterday, you can find that on our archives. Tony Bald is a fantastic job serving in his role of the senior director of relationship center at the national university, as well as serving as a guest here, Tony and being of service to provide this education. I have personally witnessed many of those seven approaches from you today in this conversation. So thank you for that. Thank you. You know, Tony, we touched on this yesterday and we wanna make sure that we reintroduce the learning portal that is so unique, such an amazing, I'm gonna use the word gift because this is free access. Can you talk to us in a limited amount of time we have left about this? Yes, real quickly, do yourself a favor and check it out. Yes. I mean, it really will provide an opportunity to go a little deeper in today's topic. There are all kinds of resources there for professional fundraisers around all eight steps of the call-selling cycle. And Julie, as you pointed out, it is free to users. And it's not just for the newbies, it's for somebody that might have us be struggling or need to be supported in a different way. I mean, it has group things so that if you wanted to bring in your entire development department or work solo, it's amazing. Yeah, so at no cost to you, for those of you that are listening, I'm gonna give you a quick audio of the link here. It's online.fundraising-academy.org. So check that out, online.fundraising-academy.org is where you can find that portal again at no cost to you. Yeah, it's really an amazing resource and you can also go directly through the Fundraising Academy site where they talk about all the different things that they're doing. But this portal's really unique, a really beautiful way to encourage more education. And as we like to say, more professionalism in our sector, which we're all about on the nonprofit show. Again, Tony Bell, Senior Director, Relationship Manager, National University Fundraising Academy. We are always so delighted when we can share time with you. I've learned a lot. I think I get energized a lot and I feel again, more confident about going with a donor, even if it's casual or if I'm trying to support a cause that I believe in, it's just been a remarkable journey for me personally since I got to meet you and your team because I can see how I can be more successful. And so that's what it's all about. Thank you. You both bring out the best in me and I always feel empowered and more assured about the work that I do. So thank you. Well, that's really, that's a blessing. Hey, I mean, if you've joined us, we're the Mutual Aid Society of Julia Patrick and Jared Ransom along with Tony Bell today, Fundraising Academy at National University. Again, we have amazing partners with us, Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, Be Generous, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader and the Nonprofit Nerd. Again, these are the partners that help us come to you every day, finishing up our third year, moving into our fourth year, right, Miss Jared? I am excited, thank you. I am really excited as well. Hey everybody, as we end day two of the drill down, don't forget, you can find the first day to work through, because it's such a big topic, we did spread this over two days and so go ahead and find us on the archive. And as we end every episode, we want to remind everyone, ourselves, our viewers, our listeners, our sponsors, Tony Bell, stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, thank you.