 It's as if you take a map of Europe and this map is empty. You don't have any contact. So the European Seattle Network really helped you to have your entry door, to get to know all the context, to get to know all the organization, and of course, to get to know all the people in this theater. I was joined at ETC, it was an obvious distinction. Why? Because we were in the Netherlands, but you don't want to think like an island. We want to be European, and the ETC gives us that opportunity. ETC did a lot for Ukrainian theater area. We received a fantastic and unique, I think, possibilities to present yourself and your productions and to open Europe for Ukraine and Ukraine for Europe. Besides the opportunity to see different festivals in different places around Europe, in the ETC meetings, we have a wonderful possibility to apply for artists, to go, for example, one week to Abinol, to the festival. And what I really like about this network is that it is mainly the artistic people that meet twice a year. So you really get to know each other, you build up trust to collaborate, and then you can really start collaboration projects. And that's what I really like about ETC. We organize each year for the opening of the season a picnic in the street in front of a theater. It has become an event in the city, and this is after a conference in the ETC about how to create links with the audience and with the city. What does it mean to be European today? What does it mean to make theater in Europe today? Which productions are the relevant ones today? And I think we're stronger together when we discuss these things. So the ETC is our natural home for internationalization. Welcome to the first virtual conference of the European Theater Convention, connecting the separated. Welcome to our panel discussion, reopening European theaters. It's now June, 2020. The most European countries, the first wave of COVID-19 has started to slow down and every week politicians announce which parts of society are to resume next. But finally theater has also made it into the news. And I'm very happy that today we'll discuss how to ensure the continuity of our sectors activity, in particular the international collaborations. But my name is Heidi Weili and I'm the Executive Director of the European Theater Convention, Europe's Network for Theatres. And it's my pleasure hosting you this morning. Normally, we would be all sitting now in the Schauspielhausgrads in Austria. And we would probably take our seats, laughing and chatting with each other like you've seen in our video when we met last summer in Dresden. Oh well, that was before the pandemic. This time is different. Let me welcome you all very warmly here to our Zoom room. It's the first time that we are livestreaming our panel discussion with an open access to the entire theater community around the world. So therefore I very dearly welcome our ETC member colleagues and friends from around Europe. The many guests who have joined us for the first time and also a warm hello to everyone who's following us on the livestream. And those of you who will watch this program maybe later online in the evening or in the following days and weeks to come. I'm sure most of you know by now very well the tips and tricks to network on Zoom where you can use the chat option below at your screen to talk with each other or with the other participants and send questions later and the final question and answer session. As a start you can tell us for example from where you're watching. I'm very thankful that we are able to offer this program and can give theaters in Europe the voice to be heard in this time of crisis to address our challenges and also to discuss solutions for our sector to survive the pandemic. For the continued support and also the ongoing dialogue to make that happen. I really want to thank our strategic partner the European Commission and most particularly the director general for education and culture and Barbara Gessler who is the head of the Creative Europe program. Let me now introduce you to Serge Rangoni president of the ETC and general and artistic director of the Atra de Liège in Belgium. Hello dear colleague and friends in this exceptional circumstances we need to find exceptional responses. In the last three months the landmarks that were all vanished as if all certainties. Allow me to introduce myself for those of you who are joining us for the first time. My name is Serge Rangoni, president of the ETC and director of the theater of Liège in Belgium. The pandemic has turned our planet upside down. The complete stopping of activities overnight with health as the only watch war when it was thought that only the economy dominated the world. The total closure of borders especially in Europe where we had seen them disappear over the years. The abysmal increase in public deficits without any further restraint. Thanks in particular to low interest rates. The highlighting of categories of workers in the frontline among the lowest pet in all societies and of course with the cessation of all social activities the awareness of the importance of the cultural and artistic sector through Europe. Here are some of the first observations we can make. However, the list is much longer. Some major speeches in favor of culture have been delivered in every country and within the European Union. Yet, can we really say what has been done? In Europe after the council of minister of culture on 25 May last, worlds of comfort and solidarity with the cultural sector were without but no major progress was made. No additional means were decided upon. It's the same in the great many countries when the airlines were up to the tune of billions and flights could resume in full but with a mask on. In some countries, even the leaders were able to take advantage of the crisis to break up the protest movements then underway and curb a little more freedom of expression and thus artistic freedom. All these in the embarrassed silence of Europe. I would like to thank very much I.D., Helene, Teresa, Josephine, Alice for the wonderful work because it was very difficult in this period and especially a special thank to Iris Lofenberg and our team. Really, we hope to visit you in the next few months. Let's try in this couple of hours to find new way of being together. Let's open European theaters together again. I thank you very much to be here and to participate to this very special session of GA of ETC. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much, Serge. I have now received a letter from Maria Gabriel, the Commissioner for Innovation, Research, Culture, Education and Youth on the European Commission addressed to the members of the European Theater Convention and who asked me to read this out to you. This is what I'm going to do now. We're done. Dear members of the European Theater Convention, dear friends, the title you have chosen, Connecting the Separated, Reopening European Theatres, reflects the reality we have been living in over the past months. Physically separated but connected thanks to our shared passions and one of these is theater. I will start by saying that I miss the theaters very much. I miss the presence of performers, the life experience. I'm sure that this feeling is shared among all of us. This very peculiar period has made us realize that we need theater and culture more broadly, more than ever because it is an important pillar for our cultural and linguistic diversity and because it allows an open space for society, for discourse and new ideas. Theater and the performing arts teach society about itself. Yet this function cannot be fulfilled at this moment. Events that we are witnessing around the world would benefit from the power of live performing arts to amplify messages of hope and solidarity. Many theaters in Europe, like other performing arts venues and artists, are suffering particularly strongly from the crisis. I want to express my awareness about the challenges you are facing. Second, my determination to use our instruments to mitigate the impact on your sector. And third, my vision for the future so that the sector can strive again and exercise its fundamental role for our society. Culture is not a luxury. It is an important social and economic factor to overcome any crisis. For this reason, if the health and safety measures are in place, theater should reopen because they contribute to the mental health and well-being of our citizens and ultimately of our society. Over the past months, I have been working very closely with member states and stakeholders to support the sector in concrete ways. We have done so, making sure that the horizontal measures put forward were available to all sectors. We have also applied targeted measures using the main instrument at our disposal, Creative Europe. One of the actions taken, important for the reopening of theaters, is the establishment of two platforms to exchange information with member states and the sector itself. This is important to allow for the international dimension of your work, allowing crews to play in different countries. In this regard, I wanted to inform you that through the platform, Creatives Unite, we will organize a video conference with the cultural and creative sectors to discuss solutions and ideas put forward by the sector to learn from the crisis and build a stronger and more resilient sector. This will take place on 26 of June and I encourage you to participate. I also want to thank you for the resilience, dedication and innovation you have shown over these past months, pushing for new forms of collaboration via digital means. I'm fully aware that this cannot be a solution for the medium to long-term. Digital means will never replace the unique experience of live performance. But I believe it is important for all cultural and creative sectors to engage in research and development, to step up innovation. Digital allows for new skills, new artistic formats, but also very importantly, to reach new and wider audiences in Europe. In this context, I wanted to inform you, I have proposed to launch this year a call under Erasmus Plus, the earmarked for the cultural and creative sectors to improve digital skills and support the social inclusion role of culture in cooperation with the education, training and youth institutions. This will certainly open concrete opportunities also for theaters. The focus will be on cross-border partnership and cooperation. Moreover, soon we will launch a 2.5 million Euro call for the cross-border distribution of performing arts works, both physical and digital. And finally, a mapping study on the ecosystem of theaters and the impact of the crisis is ongoing and should be ready for the European Theater Forum, organized in November by the German presidency and cooperation with the European Commission. This forum will offer for the first time a European representation for the entire field of theater and performing arts. It will address the specific challenges for theater to circulate internationally and create bridges between the various geographical, linguistic and structural borders and hence international collaboration. Looking to the present, I wish you a very successful event. And I have to admit that I cannot wait to go back to the theater to see the play. Yours sincerely, Maria Gabriel. Well, those were the words from our Commission of Culture in Europe. And I think it's been very important that she is giving such a strong message to us to move forward, to not let our arms just simply hang down, but yes, to take the actions that we have to take to continue our work. Even though it wasn't easy and theaters were taken away from society over the last months, a crucial experience for all of us. And now that we are slowly on the way to reappear, to retake our place in society, we realized nobody waits for you or something that we all had to feel. And that led us also to ask now more than ever before, do the arts actually have a lobby in Europe? Connecting the separated and connecting artistic works with political and societal questions is what we intend to do. In collaboration with our member theaters, Charles Blaus Graz and Cyprus Theater Organization, we produced the next program part. After an artistic intervention from Charles Blaus Graz based on the play, Nobody Waits for You by the Dutch playwright Loot Vinkermans, Marina Maleni, who is theater development officer at Cyprus Theater Organization who works also as journalist and TV moderator, will interview the cultural senator of Vienna, Ms. Veronica Kaupp-Hassler, asking her if the arts have a lobby in Europe. Hello, everybody, welcome to the Schauspielhaus Graz. My name is Carla Meda and I'm the head of Drama Turkey here and here on stage of our big house together is my colleague Susanne Konstanz Weber, actress from our ensemble, Anja Wohlfahrt, who is an assistant director who's behind the camera today and Jochen Strauch, who is the director of a little play and we're gonna present to you now, who is with us on Zoom because he's living in Northern Germany. Actually, you should have all have been here right now at the ETC conference. And yes, due to the internet, we are able to unite in other forms. And what we are gonna do right now is show you something highly improvised, actually, on stage because we have been rehearsing a play by Lord Weikermann, the Dutch author, which might bring some basics to your discussion, which is to follow after this. Lord Weikermann wrote a play, it's called Nobody Wakes for You and it's a play with three monologues. It's about political responsibility of everybody and the middle monologue is by a politician. Actually, the actress plays all three figures, ranging from an old woman who's over 80 years old and the last figure is an actress and the middle figure is a politician and this part shows what it costs to be a politician and we're now gonna present a very short excerpt from this monologue, only a few minutes and Susanne Konstantse Weber will read this to you now in German and you will see this is prerecorded. We did this on Monday in our empty theater and you will find out when you see the subtitles and now Susanne Konstantse Weber. I know it's late and you've been waiting for a long time for a report from our group. I don't want to let you wait any longer, no longer let speculations be delivered. I had a conversation with the chairman of the group, the members of the party and I told him that I was coming back from the party. The facts are known. We experienced a difficult situation during the elections and I feel responsible for that. I don't say that I'm responsible. I say that I feel responsible. And if you feel responsible for something, you have to connect with consequences. In the face of the fact that I'm standing against you for the last time, I would like to use the opportunity to tell you what I have in my heart. When I was just introduced, I was young, I was ambitious, some of whom may still remember it, I was told regularly that I shouldn't be too fanatic, that I shouldn't be too right. Times have changed significantly and I have to admit that I have difficulties with this time of change. I don't find myself to be too right. I come from a time when I was brought in to discuss letting others talk about it, even if I wasn't your opinion with him or her. The debate was my arena. That's what I feel at home. Nowadays, you expect from me that I have everyone right, that I'm the head of the opposition or better yet, a politician from another party at the head of the party. We should let our right-wing parties break each other down, as if it were a hit. And you all know what happens when two parties break each other down. They keep getting away from each other. You don't have to be a scientist to understand that. I think it's been years and it's no time. There's too much to do, we have to go on, we have to do this, we have to do that. If you, how crazy is the crowd? On the way to a meeting, in the pocket of the necessary documents, with the yellow marked seats of your co-worker and the notice sheet with important statements, don't forget, don't believe that you can still see the whole thing. Who do I actually represent? Do I represent anyone at all? How can it be that we, with this I mean the politicians, how can it be that we are so self-confident? We live in a time of great change. That's a cliché, I know that, but it's also a fact. The development of technology, the disappearance of trade restrictions, the worldwide increasing consumption of social media, all of this has the kind of way we work and live together, fundamentally changed. It has the kind of way we think and talk about each other, fundamentally changed. It has the influence of national politics on the society, fundamentally changed. In the past, yes, a minister-president used to come to his speech to tell us, you can go to bed in peace. We were designed to believe, we wanted to believe. What kind of politics would still be such a sentence today? No one. Because no one would believe in such politics. Politics is not a place of truth. It is not objective. It is a place where we have to talk about everything, where we are not sure, where we have to debate about solutions. It is not easy being a politician in times of change. As we experienced while we were rehearsing, nobody waits for you by the big amounts via Zoom throughout Europe, from Brussels to Hamburg, from Graz to the Northern Sea. The Minister of Culture Ulrike Lunacek from Austria stepped down because she had the feeling that she could not make any effect she was willing to do during the corona crisis. She held a speech which was quite similar to the one we now heard performed by Zuzana Konstantseviba. And we were, in a way, deeply touched because we often are very, very, very easily upset about things which happen in politics. And we think about what can we do? And that is the main motive of Lord Liekeman's play about self-responsibility and about how to save our democracy. There is a special attraction to the play that it is planned to be on site. So normally, at this moment, we would perform it in some tryouts during the Dramatikerinnenfestival in the city hall of Graz. It will always be performed in places of political power. For obvious reasons, we could not do that. So we made this digital first period of rehearsals. And while we were rehearsing, something else happened in Germany. The Chancellor in Angela Merkel was circulated to have said in a meeting that she doesn't see any way to support the artists because what would the European neighbors say? It was circulated that she was thinking about how would Spain and Italy react or France if she doesn't support Eurobonds, but she will support the artists. And a week later, she went in a podcast in front of the cameras and said how valuable the arts are for Germany. But in a certain way, the thought already originated in us and we were discussing in our rehearsals, does Europe need a lobby for the arts? Or is something like that already existing? Is there a political European lobby for the arts? And I hope maybe this little excerpt from our text, from Ludwig Mönstech's text at our rehearsals, may give a little impulse for the now following discussion. Well, greetings from Cyprus and many thanks for this wonderful opportunity for communication with such a special guest. Executive City Councilor and State Minister for Cultural Affairs and Science of Vienna, Veronica Karl Passler. Many thanks for this wonderful opportunity. I'm happy you have me. Well, under the general title, Reopening European Theatres, we enter a discussion entitled Do the Arts Have a Lobby in Europe? And so firstly, allow me to ask you, having worked in the field of culture as a curator, a dramaturg, a cultural manager, entering this discussion today about politics and culture, where do you feel more inclined to place yourself? Would your perspective lean more towards wearing the hat of a politician or the hat of a cultural worker? Well, theater has a lot to do with disguise. And I think in this sense, I did put on a hat of a politician, but whatever I am was mainly focused on the arts. I felt always as a warrior for the arts in all fields, being a practitioner, being a festival director, to open up spaces for artists from all fields possible, from theater dance to new media, to film, to visual arts. So I had the honor and a big pleasure to have a multidisciplinary festival for a long, long time. And I think I just, I'm still fighting the same fight, but with other means. And now it's time really to make a change in politics, at least in the city of Vienna, and wherever I can to gain more space for artists and for my former colleagues, for future colleagues and for the whole scenes. I feel I'm still totally active in the field, but I have more competence now to make something happen. And it seems like you are making something happen. And in many levels, I read that you've managed a 10% increase in funds, which is great, and it's not very usual as well. Do you feel there is enough dialogue between people in your position and the national level so that the funds can keep coming? Well, as you might know, there was a big shift or many shifts in the Austrian government. We had this kind of Ibiza affair. We had a big move in the government to the right, I would say, center, right and right. Now we have a government of Green Party together with the major big partner, which is the Popular Party, which unfortunately in the last years became more fundamental, more national, more shifting to the right like anywhere else in Europe, besides Portugal, of course, which is always an exception. So it was hard to have this kind of contact. I do have it now. I gave some weeks ago a very big interview in the standard complaining that art was not an issue at all in the whole crisis, which finally make a big noise and put the art again on the plate of all parties, which I'm very happy. It's unfortunately made during resignation of the Cultural State Secretary for Arts, who was just new to the field first of all and not dealing with rights, even though she was from the Green Party, but she was not capable to ask for enough money. So it was really an embarrassment, the whole thing. And now art is again in the political agenda and we have to use a very small window of opportunity to reinforce the demands of arts. You have to think that or to see that 0.6% of the total budget of Austria only is dedicated to arts and arts production, which is too little. In the city of Vienna, it's different. We have it now by 2.2% of the city budget is for arts agenda. I think this has to be absolutely kept and we have to deal with very ardent issues, which were ardent before. It was not only the crisis, the crisis brings it up, of course, even more than ever, but this kind of unfair payment in the arts. This was a problem even before. So my initiative has a lot to do with fair pay, with really reinforcing institutions so that they can pay the artists even in the crisis. I told them, you get all the money, even if nothing is happening, because I want you to pay your collaborators, your coworkers and the artists. And this made a big relief, of course, for the scene. We decided to give money to our single artists who might have never had subsidies, so they have this kind of engagement of until 3,000 euros that can apply for brands. So working grants, so they really can invest in their time, research, doing their own archive, making projects from home, so that at least they have a little relief financially. I love this idea of fair play, and this is something that we've tried to also enforce as Cyprus Theatre Organization for theatres specifically. We also have given out the subsidies in order to have theatres be able to pay their collaborators, and there's also schemes coming out to help both theatres be able to survive this, and artists to be able to be productive and to have jobs. How do you feel that... Well, you mentioned the 0.06% of the total budget in Austria, but it's not that far from the European budget, which is 0.08% of the whole thing is allocated to arts and to culture. How do you... 0.08%, it's not even 0.1%, so this is embarrassing, this is a shame, and we have to stand up against this kind of number, this is ridiculous. How do you feel lobbying for the arts or lobbying for culture is doing at this time in Europe? Do you feel that it's impossible sometimes for ministers of culture to convince their own governments to convince Europe for the importance of this? First of all, I think we have too little lobbying in all of our countries, and especially also on the European level, I recall very well how the discussion went that we don't have even a commissioner for the arts, so we have to make much more lobbying work, and it's not about this kind of many, many networks we are all in or we have been in, the ITM, the European Theatre Conventions, and there are so many networks on the colleague level, so it's not about that we are not talking to each other, that's not the point, but we are not enough, including politics into that, and we should use now the time really to restructure our way of lobbying. We should really make a big pressure, a big pressure on the national level as well on the European level that art is an issue and culture is an issue. We need it more than ever for our social health, for psychological health, for the way democracy will shape, so I have a... there's a big disbalance in this kind of colleague networks which are many on all levels, they are very often focused on one art sphere which is already problematic, maybe, because for the lobbying we should unite. We should, from my view, we should really take the hands from opera to theatre to visual arts to filmmakers, really on a very, very broad level but that a civic society is standing up and claiming the need for more funding in the arts. It was an embarrassment before, but the fights which were fought were only on a very small level, so each sector tried to gain as much money they could get in their field, so these particular interests are helping to make... are helping ignorant politics to just give some presents from now and then to some parties, but to really go together and regardless which sector of the arts that everyone stands up, is kind of raising up on a national level would help a lot and if the pressure is enough so that we... I'm also fighting on the national level for at least 1% of the budget on the national level that we have at least 1% of the budget. If that could be a claim also for Euro, well, 1% would be super great, but I already would be happy if they raise it from 0.08 to at least 0.5%. This would make a big, big difference and we need it also to develop the European project which I still... I'm in love still with the utopian momentum of it, but I'm very critical about the ongoing development since years and this kind of coming back of nationalism, but only if we have a strong impact on the national level we can push it also forward on the European level and this has to be done very quickly right now. It was already a failure in the structure before, but now we have to raise our voices, I think. Well, do you feel that a European lobby for the arts would be assisted by, for example, something like the European Theatre Forum which is an advocacy forum under the German EU presidency with arts organization representation so that the real issues are effectively addressed by artistic input. So I agree with what you're saying that we need to cluster everything and so we have more power and force, but I also feel that perhaps addressing the artistic side of things in specific might help. What do you think? Art is always in the center, of course. The art is in the center and you have to do both. The one thing is the political agenda. The one thing is that organizations like the European Theatre Convention join forces with likewise organizations, similar organizations for other art fields so that these kind of super mega structures come together and join forces and put their pressure, have a strategy in order to move things on, on the national and on the European level. So this has to be done. On the other hand, we really have to preserve, the main focus should always be the artists at the end. They are the ones we care about and not only the artists, also the audience. And we have to do anything we can do in order to spread out in our communities, not only that we make a program for the already convinced and the converted, but that we really try to get new audience and make them experience how important art is for creating a social space. The social tissue we have is mainly created by arts and may be the music industry or the music or theater. And I think theater has this wonderful analog thing which can't be competed by digitalization. We all see the streamings of so many things and it is nice, very often it's super nice, but I'm already tired seeing people in their kitchen playing the guitars. We need the being together. We need feeling each other. We need cinemas, for instance, also, even in terms of streaming and the availability of Netflix and all this kind of things. I think, and that's why I put really money into art house cinema, because I think the physical sharing of spaces is so important and we need the challenge also that art is doing, so that politics is not trying to use the art to solve problems they created and they are not able to solve. So this kind of well-intentioned project is mostly an artistic problem for me, so I think art has to be independent and autonomous in the doing. Indeed, and I love that you stress the fact of gatherings and being together and the performative aspect of it, the live performance has to be strengthened and continue, of course. Allow me to ask, you said that you mentioned all these things that need to be done from the artist's point of view, from the culture worker's point of view, from our point of view, trying to work with arts. And I would like to also address perhaps what needs to be done from a user's point of view in terms of practical things. For example, we had the first EU theater expert group and initiative by the European Commission to which ETC's Executive Director Heidi Wiley was invited to consult in setting up. Such initiatives might give us a voice and might work. What do you feel should be addressed at European level from their side to ours? Yeah, I think that politics has to recognize the importance of all art forms, of the role of art in building up societies. Also as a possible antagonist space and they have really to put more money into already very precarious structures. We all know that our structures are more and more endangered. And if we only have this kind of neoliberal view of how many people do you reach, and how many tickets you can sell, we have to see that this has something to do with education. So this is cross over thinking. It is education, it is social engagement, it is also dealing with the most important issues of our times and art can do that. Art is always an avant-garde in doing so, but we need to have much more money put into the sector. This is always the first thing. That's why I also fought for it in the city of Vienna because I realized how precarious the theater situation, even in such a rich city like Vienna, how many people are really just surviving and we need a strong politics which is fighting for that. It is dealing with the financial departments. It is the help of initiatives of all kinds, so institutions as well as the free scene which is so important to the whole cultural sector. In my position, what I can do now is I try to... First of all, we are working together also in this precarious situation with people from the medical side, bringing them together with artists and theater makers and performance artists in order that we can try to figure out in all those limitations we have right now what is a secure way of doing the arts right now to make theater. We have guidelines, we develop guidelines which will be put online very soon. We also translated them in English because we have the money to make people work specifically on the needs of performing arts. There are some fruitful guidelines that everyone can download very soon so we can provide that. But generally, I think we have a moment which is so dangerous as we have to keep up our voices in order that politics really puts more money into the whole field of arts. That's what we have to do. And we have to fund also the free scene. I think that's important. I believe it's funds and communication and in these terms, we recently just opened theater performances with Art Town and Cyprus Theater Organization in an open-air theater. And I do feel that communicating with theaters in Europe and sharing information on how to do that is essential. So thanks for offering that information. We are coming to a close and I would like to ask you if you would like a last word for our network of European theaters watching this short interview on what you consider the key factor in reopening theaters after the pandemic. You mentioned the medical part but I would also like to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, I don't know the situation in your country but in Austria there was a really filthy move by the government because we had an epidemic law, law for epidemics, which would guarantee all the theaters and culture sector and other also economy to get money for the loss in tickets and everything. This was guaranteed in this law. On the first day they used this law to implement the state of emergency more or less but they made a new law which extincted this paragraph. So the notion of paying to the people. And I'm still fighting for this because this will be crucial in the survival of everyone here in that artistic field. So I think we have to try to guarantee the institutions that they have the possibility to survive. Like in Swiss, they said we give, I don't know, it was like 286 million francs for the first three months. So the artists there and the institutions are quite calm and they even prolong it as long as the crisis is going on because there will be a loss. If you want to be secure you have to have a certain way of seating like in a chess play where you have one seat taken, the next seat next to you is free. So this is a way to hopefully prevent that the coronavirus is second wave. But this will be super not economical for the theaters and that's why the state has to guarantee, they have to guarantee that his loss is compensated. And I think on the first level, the theater convention has to make sure that this is an issue for all of Europe, that the compensation of the ticket loss is there, is provided by the European Commission. Thank you very much. I do hope it happens and I do hope that theaters... Thank you very much for this conversation. I thank you and continue to be subversive as much as you can and in a good mood and keep on fighting. I hope that we will be able to gain this bet with audiences to come, our trains up, to come back to the theater and I do hope that theaters will be supported so that they can go on. Everywhere we are, we fight for it. Thanks. Thank you very much. Bye. Thank you for the conversation. Well, thank you very much, Kajfer Senator from Vienna and also Marina Malini for having conducted this interview. We've also recorded this already in the beginning of this week. I think the message from the Kajfer Senator was very clear. We have to lobby for the arts. There is no other way. She showed us also the complexity of the issues and I think one of the main criteria is to strengthen structures, to strengthen the artists and to make our voices heard. Well, I have now the pleasure to introduce you to Marco Bratusz, who is moderating the actual panel discussion of how to reopen European theaters. He is artistic director of the Slovenian National Theater in Novagovica. Welcome, Marco. Thank you, Heidi. So we have the corona crisis. We are where we are, but slowly things are settling down and we are getting ready to open the theaters. Some countries open the theaters already. Others are far away from it, but joining me today are three people that are actually very much involved in this whole process of opening the theaters on the European level. I would like to present you Iris Laufenberg from Schauspielhaus Graz. I kind of made it. Schauspielhaus Graz. Okay. From Austria. Hello, Iris. Hello. And then Dubrowka Virgoc, general manager of Croatian National Theater of Zagreb. Hello, Dubrowka. Hi. And Norbert Rakowski from Yoko Opone, from Poland. Hello, Norbert. Hello, buddy. Hi. So we're getting back to making theater in these new circumstances, but how are we doing it? I mean, the thing is, there are health concerns, financial concerns, restrictions, social distancing, that all really, really influenced the work that we do. And first and foremost, there's the health concern that was raised during the corona crisis where our respective governments more or less left us to our own devices. I don't think that there was a country in Europe that got really clear message from the government, from the health institutions on how to work in theater. And that's why I would ask Iris to kind of present us with their process. Iris was one of the first theaters that actually had a very good health plan, very good plan on how to possibly return to work when the crisis is over already in early April or late March. So please, Iris, could you take us through the process, the sound? So can you hear me? Yes. Thank you, Marco, for your introductory words. It's so nice to hear all of you and to see you again. Now at the ETC panel discussion, if corona didn't happen, we would have seen us not only live now, but I will hosting you in the festival of current drama in part. Initially, I would like to summarize the situation we found ourselves in after the shock effects of lockdown had dispersed. And the different challenges and obstacles we were faced with. First, we realized that we are being neglected by our politicians, all of us. And even worse, we were not seen as relevant for society. We realized then that nobody knows better than we ourselves was needed to work at the theater. We created, as you mentioned, our own measures by comparing our different theater development departments with the relevant departments of society to reopening theater soon. By the way, we shared the short catalog with the ETC to share it also with you, the members of the ETC. But one important difference between Austria and other countries is that here the health guidelines are not as restricted as maybe in other countries. And for example, Germany has the problem as well that there are different federal states. And so all states have different rules. We have this in Austria a little bit too, because in Vienna, the situation is a little bit different as in the Stereo. Because in the Stereo, the incidence rate is not so high. So now we have to considerate between insurance and self responsibility. For example, in Germany, the situation is in this case totally different. The Rippertable Bochum Theater opened yesterday. Maybe you have heard it with Ilyas Kaneti's play The Days are numbered in an auditorium for 800 people with 50 sold tickets for mass audience. And on stage, there is a distance, the rule is a distance between three to six meters. It's a really strange situation. We are here in this situation. In Austria, we are speaking now about less than a meter distance everywhere. And with this distance, we are hopefully going to expect more or less a normal audience situation without a mask in the bottom. Apart from the fear of having a second wave, we have a lot of challenges ahead of us, I think. Now is the time to consider what we should keep and what we want to change. But first of all, the problem is all of us, we have to bring our audience back by evoking their trust and having a tractor program. We ended, we all ended abruptly in March with an audience, and in this case here, with more than 90 percent. So the financial question is also a huge, really a huge challenge also here in Graz. Even so, I am confident audience will come back. We have to confront them with more than they are going to expect. Even we need to sell tickets for our budget. We must not run after our spectators. We theater makers have now, really now, this is the time to think about our resources relating to the waste of time, to the waste of energy, the waste of materials, the waste of human capacity, and the waste in general. I think we must ask ourselves and as artists, theater makers, and as role models in society what we laughed or what unnecessary habits are not practicable any more nowadays. Maybe to be as well in case relevant, maybe as a role model in this case. In conclusion, with all our flow of reopening, we start with this energy, theater energy. Let us not forget, forget, forget that we must change things. I would like to hand back to Marco and maybe we can talk about our concrete practice of change during the discussion furthermore, if you want to. Thank you. Yes, this is, thank you. This is absolutely a theme that we will open a bit later on for all the audience. But I would like to give the word now to Dubroko. Dubroko is one of the first theaters to open. Croatia was one of the first countries to actually go back to theater. And we also started in Slovenia, but for the first week the actors were wearing. How did it go in Croatia? What are the financial implications? What are the practicalities of going back for the biggest creations theater that also includes opera, ballet and drama? Dubroko. Hello to everybody from sunny Zagreb. Just to say, in the last three months we survived two big crisis. One crisis was coronavirus and another crisis is earthquake, which actually we had in Zagreb of 22, 32nd of March. I just want to ask, is it possible to show the show to Vidal of reopening Croatia National Theater at the moment? Actually you saw the Vidal which was screaming 26th of May in Croatia National Theater and it was the day of reopening the theater. But just to tell you the short history of the last three months. So we closed the theater on 12th of March and the same period as many European theaters. As other European theaters for the few weeks they were completely confused and we didn't get any guidelines for anybody. No politician, no any kind of European politicians or any suggestion. So we were quite lost. And then we started to do it online presentation of our theater performances. I mean the opera, drama and ballet. We did it with the main Croatian daily newspapers on the YouTube platform. And in one and a half months we got a half million of visitors. What is quite a lot for Croatia. Then we started planning some programs in the case if we will have a possibility to do it live. And first of all we got a suggestion from the politician and from the ministry that we supposed to close the season. Because there will no be any possibilities to continue. At the same time we were planning to make some small program from outside. On the time when we will be allowed to do it. So in the beginning and the end of April we get a small short concert we are planning to do in Zagreb. And it was quite an idea to be the gift for the citizen of Zagreb after the earthquake. Because the situation especially the center of Zagreb was quite depressed. And you can imagine if you have an earthquake and more than two houses was really damaged during the earthquake in the center of Zagreb at the same time we have a lockdown of the same of the whole city. And it was a quite desperate situation. So the politician actually the health part of our government which will allow people to do something in this period allow us to make something in it. But the idea of this concert was to be like in the place where people can could listen or watching us through the balcony or through the windows. So 4th of May we were allowed to do it and this project we call it Creation National Theater in your neighborhood. So we went to the different neighborhood of Zagreb and it was a short concert. It actually means that two singers were singing and one pionist was coming through this. And at the beginning of 4th of May when we opened it it was allowed to be five people together on the street but getting better from time to time so we got the ten concerts around the whole Zagreb it was a big success and we get really connected with the audience for the first time. It was very emotional. I mean in the both sides at the beginning people were crying I mean our singers and audience and even like it was not allowed there were a lot of old people who was coming in our old audience and really wanted to be in touch with the artists and to get the possibility of being in a real theater. So at 11th of May we were allowed to do the rehearsal what was actually we didn't know like two days ago we didn't know that we could do it so we continued to do it rehearsal for drama opera and ballet and then really like from 18 to 19 of May we were allowed to start so we decided to take all the measures and as you could see in the video we really made for one week we really tried to make anything safe and follow with the rules we got for the health department and so we opened the concert and at the moment the theater has 709 seats and at the moment we are supposed to have 250 seats but at the same time if you have an opera program it's less because there should be 4 meters between the singers or musicians and the audience so it could be different between ballet, drama and opera at the same time as we didn't know that we will continue the season we plan for a program for outside the theater and we now during the parallel to program program in the theater and the program outside the theater outside the program it's like a concert like the summer night in the Croatian National Theater it's a concert, it's some ballet performances and it's also some drama interactive performances or more like happening but the summer night of Croatian National Theater are completely for free so the loss of the Croatian National Theater at the moment it's really quite big because for the two months we didn't play so there is no box office money there is no any kind of income and at the moment we didn't know and we don't know or we will not know for sure for some time what will happen with the money we got from the Ministry of City regarding our program for 2020 so there is no news and there is no any guidelines what we are supposed to do with the programming so this is not only our situation but the whole European theater face with the situation and not really know what will happen and if government will give the money for the loss of for example the box office loss or for the programming in Croatia the government give the money for the independence artist who are not able to play to perform in these three months but also I think it's really important to stress the institution because the institution is quite fragile you know during this time and still we don't know what will be our future regarding the second, third or fourth wave or we don't have any guidelines how we will work in the September with hope it will be normal but it's just a hope so I think that it should be really to know or to get more information about our nearest future but also as a network to give some really platform to see is the future will be normal or probably not and in which way we also could be flexible regarding the money and regarding the program and what kind of new initiative and your idea and we can get I mean generally Yes this raises important questions on actually how to do the second part of the year because the loss of income the loss of also the timing the loss of time because I personally needed to postpone one project or another one cancel one of the performances already we have no idea what money we will have for the autumn because if they are not willing we need to co-finance our own performances with our own money which means that this money is now gone what will this mean there will be rebalancing of the state budget in July so we are everybody is up in the year and we will probably need to resort to some parts of a guerrilla tactic to make it to keep the system running also what we did in Slovenia was that we kind of kept the co-productions so the co-productions the performances that more cities can profit from so basically that we do one performance of the state in Koper Maribor and Novakolice for instance but how does this work in international level Norbert this is the queue now the borders are still more or less closed countries are still trying to preserve the closed borders for the benefit of tourism to keep the guests at home what do we do with the international cooperation Norbert your thoughts Hello from Poland North of Poland at the beginning I have to say sadly it also became clear with pandemic that we are extremely far from the social needs but also more than extremely far in government priorities it's really sad so we got no rules not pandemic law we got just recommendation to open theaters and it depends up to every artistic director from the theaters but when we are talking about challenges of keeping the international activities in place of course nobody knows but it's crucial though to invent new ways for international collaborations including traveling, ideas and exchange possibilities it's impossible to force the future but it's very likely we'll be left without festivals in the form as we know of course and I was thinking of course everybody are thinking what we can propose instead probably, probably of course long term collaborations as production are more likely and we can bring artistic for example we can bring artistic and production teams with all needs health regime we can present more than one piece for example in festivals maybe it gives a unique chance for very precise and responsible international theater and programming and although it gives unique chance for very I think it's also have to expect funding cuts of course and lack of interest in international theaters maybe of course because nobody knows but we are of course waiting and we sustain in international processes also launching new ones including dance project related to the corona virus pandemic aftermath it goes dance macabre in 2021 made by or programming by Polish choreographer also we planning to make our last production I'm nowhere with Madrid I hope it will be in 22 we plan Chinese and Japanese present Chinese and Japanese theater companies to bring showcase in December in JK of Apollo theater of course only plans right now we are not open we are pretty lucky because we are we have a renovations from beginning of March and we want to open theater in the end of September so we can say you're a bit lucky in this moment because we plan to open theaters and constructions from two years so everybody knew that we don't play right now it's our particular example but in Poland some theaters start to work normally I mean in ordinary way not ordinary with the temperatures with some regime but we also starting new co-productions international to co-productions with Katowice and Legnica from June 16 we start rehearsals on the stage King Lear directed by Anna with 15 women and one man it means a lot of people on the stage so we need to figure out our own procedures to be safe and be safe with actors so of course two meters on rehearsals then we start rehearsals from half of August also two next co-production with another festivals as I said at the beginning nobody knows what happened because we don't have a pandemic law so as I said just recommendation and we don't know what happened also we are planning a big festival in November it's a Polish classic drama when we reopen theater and right now I can say I invite you for a showcase in December we got a whole plan and I can send you of course even an invitation but let's see what happened so what is really I don't know funny but it's a bad word but it's interesting Germany is a model example when it comes to support for artists during pandemic for Polish artists because we don't have any support I mean just very very small so that's it maybe when we really think about programming international co-productions we need to think about new rules and maybe it's a kind of topic for discussion because I'm not right now an expert of it thank you Norbert let me just remind everybody that at the end of this session we also have a Q&A so question and answer segment please send your questions in the chat there's a chat button come up with things to talk about my next question is for all panellists and it goes like this corona is here what do we do now do we change the vision do we change the plays we are playing do we change how we produce things do you know maybe that how to approach this corona thing of course people were coming to me and say oh yeah we should do comedy on the corona this should be so funny everybody would want to see it I was like I'm not sure this is like only one joke but I'm not really sure if this is going to work but this with social distancing with all these measures with a second wave looming above our heads are there things that you are thinking of how to adopt your program to kind of fit into this new lockdown era I thought you want to say something okay I think we don't need on stage corona topics because we have the society they are burning and we see the things as we mentioned before that were before we maybe haven't seen enough we are burning glass so for example the environment questions and all these things you can choose plays or collect people to say something about that or to bring it into artists it was always our topic or our goal but now I think we see things clearer we are the same environment gangsters in the arts or in the cultural companies as other people are as well because we are drinking plastic maybe not but we have these canteens, stuffed canteens with all these meats and all these things and we have to think about it and we have to change as I mentioned before as role models and the same also because we are in a way companies and we are acting and we are travelling like we have no idea what's going on in the world so I think it's very important Dubrouka I just want to say that we face now about our problem and we could see that in the cultural sector but especially the performing arts sector are most damaged than other sector during this corona crisis and in this case as we are talking today about reopening the theatre and some theatre in Europe is not open some theatre will not be open like UK theatre I got the message from my English friends that the UK theatre will be open maybe in the summer 21 I think that we have to rethink about the position of the theatre in the time, in the society and in this case we also I think that we need to rethink as Iri said about our repertoire because it couldn't be the same as it's like one year ago or when we plan 2020 of this season and so rethink about the repertoire, rethink about the financial support and how we will actually survive in a financial way but also the rethink of possibility of international collaboration as Norbert said it's a big question mark what will be about mobility and we know that's like one of the main issue of European Commission and European Union is mobility but this mobility now is stopped so we need to think what kind of mobility we can use it in the nearest future and in this case what kind of collaboration we need to set up I think there is another big or even biggest question who is coming back who will risk the comeback and why maybe that will be the reasons reprogramming something I mean that how to approach them with the programming how to meet their expectation the people who will come back of course it's the risk for them who is responsible for themselves so there is a lot of questions more questions than answers absolutely so the thing is now we have some questions and so can you talk a bit about solutions for rehearsals what is the impact of lockdown in your artistic program for next season so we touched a bit on we started in Slovenia we started rehearsals as I said with the mask and visors like this after three days this was lifted and then there was a period of confusion regarding do we need to wear masks or not there was like first the instruction was you only need mask if you are getting closer to one and a half meter then it was like you don't need it then they open schools the first it was only 10 kids together in each separate bench but then after a while they put everybody together so in Slovenia we kind of said okay so basically we are the actors are like a group of pupils in school which means that they are together all the time the same people are together they are going back to their family they are going back to their family so we kind of said okay nobody knows what the instructions are but let's simplify that of course I checked with the actors if anybody has any reservations about that and of course they were really really eager to get back to work and resume work normally because at some point this measures will be dropped and to kind of go on today like there are two families one has visors and the other has masks it's a joke but after this is irrelevant it's not a joke anymore so we kind of did that and there's also question what is the reaction of audience we are also opened up for the audience in Novogorica and people are really eager to get back to this performance that usually doesn't get a lot a lot of tension but we sold out we actually were a bit over capacity because some people from the theater also came so we needed to fill the seats that were marked with axes but the thing is and the reaction from the people is they really missed theater but of course Slovenia was not hit as hard as some other countries might be Dubroko maybe you how did you restart the in Croatia the rehearsals are you asking for a rehearsal or for a performances not for rehearsals yes we started the rehearsal before they started with the performances and we started the rehearsal like in a quite normal way because of our measure there was just a measure for singers and for musicians to be two meters in the rehearsing space but for actors and even for ballet dancers there is no measure so they could have rehearsal in an old or so-called normal way I just want to say one thing about the audience because there is a question also about how we deal with the audience we don't have any problem with the audience from the moment we opened the theater people were not afraid at all even like we have as you said two seats together and then boxes together but people who didn't know each other they wanted to sit to each other and they didn't use the measures during the performance of course Croatia had and still have a great situation regarding the virus not really I mean we have two cases yesterday but not a lot of cases for a few days but people are really craving to be in the theater again and I don't afraid that people will not for the houses event they were allowed to really fulfill the houses great news there's the next question how do we make sure our borders remain open and lobby for clear guidelines for travel and give artists the same exceptions than workers from the other sectors so international touring can happen in the autumn this is a very good question I'm pretty pessimistic about this one because we tried to get answers from our governments regarding the work at home and you know going over borders implies a lot of diplomacy for instance Slovenia and Austria had like a diplomatic falling out Austria opened all borders except to Slovenia and it was from Slovenian standpoint it was ah you're just trying to protect your tourism and you don't want people to come to Slovenia or Croatia to the seaside and at some point they kind of opened the borders so there's a lot more than just to that than just I do think they actually understand what we want but they're not giving it to us and of course they are not even willing to speak to us so basically we probably will need to do something we did like it is with the health protocols we will need to do it ourselves so we will need to find loopholes on how to continue doing that but of course a lot of that is dependent on whether the second wave comes and what this means in terms of do we so once there's a second wave probably theatres will be the first to close again so basically to have a backup plan probably will not help at that point but of course do any of our other panelists have a thought on this how to lobby our way into international touring Norbert maybe I don't know I don't know what I have to say it's quite a difficult question yeah I mean this is the situations we are now and I mean the thing is we are running Creative Europe project for teenagers and we just had a meeting yesterday we thought we would just cancel it but then we said okay no let's try to meet so we are trying to get back on track even with our international activities even though at this point it seems like really shaky but there's always concern of governments changing on a whim the rules for instance I had a costume designer from Montenegro that I needed to kind of finish the premiere we are doing now and she got all the papers right she got everything and there was no there was supposed to be no quarantine between the two countries but when she landed they put her in quarantine for 14 days so then we just needed to quarantine her in the workshop for costumes because there was no other way to finish but the thing is it's really unclear and we're really improvising a lot as you said theaters and the movies are rated internationally 6 to 10 in terms of risk and gyms are only 8 to 10 so we are really high risk and probably if something happens we will be again closed so the problem is from the way I see it the audience is quite old for most of the theaters so this kind of elevates the risk we have another question I just want to say one thing there are two I think it's really important for this period one word is to be patient another word is to be flexible so I think that things change and we don't know I mean the creation experience that is changed during the night they said okay it's allowed to play or not allowed so I think this we cannot really know what will happen as we agree all about this but also it could happen that things change so I think this we really need to be very flexible to have a plan A and plan B and plan C maybe we should think about completely new rules and regulations in the theaters to think about it right now for the future in Poland we need to change it from 40 years and nobody did there's another question so there's a comment creative Europe has been understanding in our current project to spill over in 2021 according to our experience Marina Malini said that they have been understanding and of course they were willing to accept like online things instead of live meetings but the thing is my personal opinion is that we succumb to fear we need to go on really because the theater the point of theater is live audience in the same room with the performance and the energy that exchanges there this is like the specialty of our sector so I think we need to fight for that and of course be prepared for plan B but of course this should be our aim to also to get back to international touring as soon as possible Claudia Bilsior is asking due to the lockdown of borders are you changing your artistic program into a more local one so yes I of course I mean the thing is I needed to postpone a project with the Romanian director because she couldn't get here in time so this was one one thing and of course one of the project that was cancelled was project with the Italian director so this was because at that point we couldn't be sure if they could make it so this is one of the thing how about the others did you change your international plans for the season Yeris yes of course because there's no international festival now here but I think it's worse to do or to have theater for a local audience it's very fantastic and I think we have to do this international work maybe first in a different way and maybe there are digital visions we can come together in the next year to get come together we have a lot of drama festivals current drama it's a profile of our house and so we were invited to three different festivals to Heidelberg to Mühlheim to Berlin and we can't go there but it's a pity but also maybe it's a chance to come together all these authors because they are the issue the playwrights and maybe we can come together in a digital way maybe not only Europe in an international way because we know each other not personal but we know each other we can focus some topics in a digital festival it's not a substitute to be a live festival but we have so many festivals for current drama maybe there are some missions inside and we don't see now but of course Marco I agree we theater is live of course and I love my local audience and I want to prove now is there more diversity in society here in Graz and in Sturria so that also our goals we didn't really, we did but not as the main focus so there are also changes in this disaster actually we didn't change a lot I mean we postponed because as you know the Croatia has a presidency of EU for these first six months in the corona time so we postponed many many international guest performances either the performances are supposed to come European performances are supposed to come to Croatia or either the other way around we have to go to the different European destination so we just postponed for the next part of the season and as I said we didn't cancel anything also in opera we started to rehearse with the European I mean with the French director and he will come in the beginning of September to work with us the whole team and we hope that it will be possible so we continue to work as just to postpone everything to the next part of the year okay there is another question about the support of freelancers this issue is really probably differs from country to country on what to do with freelancers in Slovenia they got the support for the months of April and May they got like UTD some money like 700 euros per month but of course the government cancelled the pandemic not to pay also for June so everybody is now on their own this is why also one of the reasons we decided to restart the season as soon as possible because a lot of freelancers are working for bigger theatres right now I'm doing the project with eight dancers and of course if they're working I can give them some advances but of course it really depends from country to country because in eastern countries we have a lot of theatres which means a lot of actors are actually employed and there's a smaller number of freelancers whereas in the western countries more or less the majority of actors are freelancers and of course the support there needs to be much stronger for that period of time so I hope this answers the question I can just say that we got a few programs for freelancers but we also invite many people just to work because we got a team but we start with the new program Modellatoria Online which was specially for freelancers and right now we offer for autumn and the next seasons small groups like freelancers groups just offer the stages one a month or two once and then we just pay on our stages for free so this is kind of support freelancers because our team is safe yeah I mean this is now actually now is the time to be for solidarity in our sector because the way I look at it is like an ecosystem there are freelancers that are feeding off the bigger theatres the cultural institutions that are buying our shows to show all around the country so this is all kind of connective and of course because the thing was there was an idea in Slovenia let's just take the money from the theatres and put it in the freelancers but then I mean it helps in the first wave but the second wave without us having money we don't have the money to pay them so we have to pay them and it's a hit on the freelancers so I mean it's a complex system and that's why I think this system is only as good as long as it's running and of course the questions whether we should change the system are right on point because this system only works with 95% efficiency so if we drop below 95% the things start to collapse I mean our theatre lost more than 50% of income because at this point because of this stoppage because we couldn't sell shows and we sell most of the shows during this period because in the autumn we usually have the premieres and we have a lot of shows at home and then we go on the road and these shows on the road are actually bringing more money than shows at home so this is a very very delicate situation but yeah we have another question do you think the pandemic will affect the view on artistic freedom in Europe is this a question in your countries and in your artistic networks if I may start the thing is in Slovenia it really depends on the kind of government that we have when the government is right-wing they're really trying to let's say to influence the public opinion against the arts and they're really not a good partner to try to get something done whereas the left-wing governments are willing to talk but they don't really do much as well so basically but at least they're not going into artistic freedom so the question here is what we will do probably my question is how it will affect the finances how will the finances affect artistic visions the thing is of course as a cultural institution we will probably need to make more money so does that mean that we sacrifice some of our artistic projects and do more projects in the general public this is basically a concern I haven't changed anything in this regard so I haven't done it yet but at some point if it becomes a necessity probably I will need to look into that to keep the system running but yes please I have to say that for last three years we didn't make even a boulevard of ours and right now we trying to figure out somehow probably in the beginning of 21 a piece who will support us support the artistic way of the theatre so it means we need to find a kind of balance of it I don't think that we could see only the financial consequences of the crisis and I think that soon we will see other consequences of the crisis but from our experience it doesn't mean that we need to make very popular theatre to get more audience I think our experience because a few years ago when we came the new team came to the national theatre it was empty we are doing an artistically more interesting programme to get people back to the theatre and we succeeded so I still believe in this that it doesn't mean that you need to go below the level, the artistic level to get people back in the theatre I think that you need just to make a theatre as a safe place and that's also with some artistic challenge get them in the theatre back you're ok there's another question here which is about when did you announce the season how are you going about announcing the new seasons for season ticket holders this is not applicable to all theatres but we have the season tickets we usually announce our programme around mid-May for the next season and now we push this back to August because right now I still have no idea what I need to actually find another piece of the puzzle to complete the season we get the confirmation for the government about our funding for the rest of the year this is a bit of a complicated situation so after the 17th of August we will go out with the programme and we will start with season ticket subscriptions Dubroca? Yes, we were thinking a lot about this and we were working a lot about this because we are big theatre and we have a lot of subscribers so we decided to postpone it because usually in June we started to buy the tickets for the next season so we postponed it to the beginning of September but we do the whole plan I mean the repertoire for the subscriber we got a programme book for them, we got a flyer everything as it will be normal and then we can make it like a flexible situation if it will not be normal also because we have some some performance was not able for subscribers to see for this season so we make a voucher for them so they can buy the new Abenoman with this voucher so let's make a balance for the new one so we are pretending that everything will be ok with the full audience we will start it to do it at the beginning of September Yes In Graz it's similar we have decided that we planned the big stage because this is relevant for the subscribers and so there is a programme a magazine with a programme for the huge stage on the end of June and the subscribers know they will be back on their seats hopefully this is the situation and we will give them the tickets in the end of August so we are sure that all the things are going on in autumn and the other stages we were offering the programme in October for the experimental stages and we have a lot of plans but we are not sure we have enough money to do all this programme because we need of course the tickets for the big stage but we have planned now very carefully with 50% of the audience it's only to be sure that we can go on and I think we can it's only to go on steps in the next season OK, thank you Norbert I have to be sure we open theatre everything depends up to the reconstruction so if we finish at the beginning of September we open in the end of September and there will be no problem because everybody are waiting for new openings so this is cool but we have a kind of programmes and we start selling tickets when we will be sure we open theatre there was one last question about how to increase the audience not to get back only the ones who are already convinced the theatre is cool but how to approach new audiences and how to approach schools schools are for Novo Gorica are kind of important partners but the thing is we usually have a meeting with them around this time but this year we just said let's postpone it to August because nobody is sure what the regulations will be so at this point the teachers in Slovenia are a bit reluctant to go to schools but the problem is taking the responsibility nobody wants to take responsibility so the government doesn't give any rules on how to behave because they don't want to be irresponsible of course theatres we do what we do because we need it to keep the system going but again we wouldn't like to have the responsibility for epidemic on our hands so probably time will tell about the schools it's the same exactly in Poland it's absolutely the same thank you very much thank you Norbert for this session I hope we answered some of the questions addressed some of the things regarding reopening the theatres I'm giving my word back to the ETC staff I hope to see you soon live yes thank you Marco, Dubrawka, Norbert and Iris for those thoughts that you shared with us I would directly pass the word on to Serge to say a few closing words since we want to respect our time schedule as well I'm going to start at 12 o'clock so Serge I don't have a lot of things to add I'm just really surprised because the situation is so different from one country to the other I heard Blankali yesterday in Madrid and in Madrid they are about to open the venues and here in Belgium we can open the venues until 200 people wearing masks but without no distancing the situation is so complex it's so difficult and it's very strange that nobody in Europe can really find the right way to manage this obviously we know that the situation in different parts of Europe is not exactly the same so probably I hope that we will continue and develop maybe new ways of having link with audiences I think this is really important and what Marco just told about schools we are also really involved in these and to find new ways I think this is an occasion and I hope that together we can find new ways to work and to work also internationally as Dubro Africa said we have a good lunch unfortunately not all together but thanks a lot goodbye Thank you Serge and before you are off to lunch or going back into your theatres to continue the preparations let me just tell you also there are lots of other resources also of what's going on in the theatres, surveys also indications with clear figures and numbers of the implications on our website so I really invite you to take a look also to find additional resources also for your own work on our website let me thank very much our collaboration partners from from Cyprus Theatre organization also already from last night who started to discuss the revolutionary aspect also of theatre to still be continued as part of the current debates to come up with a future of our sector to survive this pandemic I want to say thank you to our various many speakers from all over Europe who have taken the time this morning to share your insights with us thank you Marco also for this wonderful moderation of yours I want to say thanks to our members and guests who tuned in who took the time to join our conversations and took part also in the debate afterwards I want to say thank you to our livestream viewers for watching and use the last moments to announce the upcoming events as part of this conference this afternoon at two o'clock we continue with a digital theatre webinar offered by our colleagues from the Academy of Digital Theatre in Dortmund entitled Deep Space Needs Theatre it's at two o'clock here online tomorrow our members and invited guests are hopefully joining the General Assembly of ETC and the next ETC coffee break the moment for international networking we also have time to explore further the topics from today but also address actual international collaboration work and followed by this next week we have a collaboration with Deutsche Theater as part of the Radar Ost Festival on the 21st of June members from ETC from Poland, Czech Republic Belarus Free Theatre, Hungary join us in a discussion on Sunday about news from the East we will have our European Theatre Academy from the first to the third of July and join the Theater de Luxembourg during their talent lab also from the first of the third of July with online discussions about the future of Europe and last but not least let me invite you to put down your agendas in November from the 11th to the 13th the European Theatre Forum will take place what Commissioner Gabriel announced and I'm pleased to announce that ETC is organizing this event together with many other organizations that are coming in theater so please join us then as well as to the next ETC conference from the 26th to the 29th of November hopefully in Hungary well and if you want to find out more about ETC or maybe how your theater can join us just have a look on our website or contact us we will be happy to speak to you thank you to everyone and have a nice day goodbye