 Okay, let me begin by saying that I think most people in Vermont know that I am not a Democrat, I am not a Republican, and in fact, I am the only non-Democrat, non-Republican, independent, progressive mayor in the United States of America. And in fact, the city of Burlington is the only strong three-party city in the United States. And that's the fact that I am extremely proud of, because as I've said for many years, I happen not to believe that within the framework of the two-party system, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, that we're going to be able to bring about the real changes in this country that are needed to benefit the vast majority of our people. Essentially, it's my view that the leadership of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are tied to big-money interests and that neither of these parties will ever represent the people in this country who are demanding the real changes that have to take place. I think also that many people in Vermont know that I and many of us in the progressive movement here in Burlington are strongly supporting and actively working for Jesse Jackson to become the next president of the United States. We are supporting Jackson because he uniquely and alone of the major party candidates has shown the courage to tackle the most important and basic issues facing working-class America, poor people, elderly people, environmentalists, peace activists, women, and America's minorities. Jackson alone of all the candidates has raised the issue of the grossly unfair distribution of wealth and power in this country, which is clearly the most single important issue which has got to be raised for the future of this country. And he has not been ashamed to stand up and declare himself the candidate of the have-nots, the disenfranchised, and the ordinary Americans who have for so long been left out of the political process. Jackson alone has had the courage to indicate that he is prepared to take on the multinational corporations and the banks who presently own and control America. As all Americans know, Jackson's candidacy has been doing far better than the brilliant political experts have thought possible. And in this respect I want to congratulate all of the people in the state of Vermont who on March 1st got out and worked for Jackson and brought in the vote for Jackson and got them 26 percent of the vote in the state because I think the result of those, that vote, that election day, had an impact on primaries that followed and in fact indicated that white people were prepared to vote for Jackson. Today Jackson is in a neck and neck race with Governor Michael Dukakis for the Democratic nomination and while no one can predict the outcome of future primaries, whether in Wisconsin, New York, or California, knowledgeable people now believe that it is a real possibility that Jackson will go into the Democratic Convention in Atlanta with the most delegates, not the majority of delegates, but with more delegates than anybody else. On December 30th, 1987, when I introduced Jesse Jackson to a large crowd in Montpelier on a bitter cold night, and there were about a thousand people there, I introduced him to Vermont as the next President of the United States and I think it's fair to say that while many people in that room on December 30th hoped in their hearts that that might be a possibility, in fact they really did not think it was a reality, they didn't think it would happen. Today that view has changed and all political observers, regardless of their affiliation, now believe that Jesse Jackson in fact has a fighting chance to become the nominee of the Democratic Party and has a fighting chance to become the next President of the United States. He's still an underdog, but I think now the reality of that occurring is a much greater likelihood than people previously believed and what is absolutely remarkable about this entire process and I think a point not emphasized enough is that Jackson is now a front-runner despite the fact that he is being outspent in some instances 10 to 1, in some instances 20 to 1 and some people may recall that even here in Vermont during the primary there were 15 paid Dukakis workers in the state, there was not one paid Jackson worker. In my view, Jackson, Jesse Jackson is making history throughout this campaign and when lose or draw his candidacy will be remembered as the most significant presidential campaign in at least 50 years in this nation, in attempting to bring working people and poor people and elderly people and people of all colors together to begin to stand up and fight for their rights and to fight for their dignity. Sometimes we lose the knowledge that history is being made when it's being made in front of us. That is in fact what is happening right now. For me personally and for many of us in the progressive movement who are not Democrats, Jackson's candidacy has raised an awkward question. What role should we take? How far should we go given the fact that we are not Democrats? As many people know there has been within the National Rainbow Coalition a serious debate over whether Jesse Jackson should in fact run within the Democratic Party or whether he should have begun his campaign outside of the Democratic Party running as a third party individual. I am not active in that Rainbow Coalition. My own preference would have been and I would have rather have seen Jesse Jackson run independently third party outside of the Democratic Party. However, Jackson and the majority of the people in the Rainbow Coalition chose otherwise they're running within the Democratic Party and Jackson is now on the verge of perhaps becoming that party's nominee. On Tuesday evening, April 19th, the Democratic and Republican parties are holding caucuses all over the state in order to elect delegates to the party's state conventions and ultimately representatives to the national political conventions. As someone who is not a Democrat or a Republican, I personally have never attended a caucus of either major political party. I am announcing today however that I and many of us within the progressive movement here in Burlington and I hope and expect elsewhere throughout the state of Vermont will be attending the Democratic caucuses that will be held on April 19th. While we are not members of the Democratic Party, we are strongly supporting Jackson's historic candidacy and have got to do everything in our power to see that he wins that party's nomination. Clearly in a convention which may come down to a few votes in Atlanta, it would be irresponsible for us not to do our best to attend these caucuses to elect the delegates and to give Jackson as much strength and as many votes as he can have in that convention. My understanding is that in addition to the five already determined statewide delegates, there are 14 delegate positions that will be decided upon throughout that Democratic caucus process. My hope is that as many Jackson supporters all over the state of Vermont, including people in the progressive coalition, people of progressive mind all over the state will come out to these caucuses, will work as hard as they can and will get as many of those 14 delegates as possible for Jesse Jackson. Thank you. Questions? Obviously going to have an impact and it's done so much better than not only everyone else, even he himself is trying not to want to detract from what he's done, but he hasn't gotten more than in the high 20 percent in competitive primaries. The caucus just got out of Connecticut, neighboring state, but he gets 58 percent there. I don't see your premise where he's going to go and take all those delegates and come in first and delegate, but it seems like a real I'm not so sure. And again, I don't want to claim to be, you know, who the hell knows? You may be right. They may not be right. I think, for example, the two major primaries that yet that are yet to come on New York and California, I think he has a real shot to win New York and I think he has a shot to win California. I think apparently he's close in Wisconsin. I'm not telling you that it's definite, but I think it's fair to say. And I think what quote unquote experts now believe is that Jesse Jackson has a reasonable chance to go into Atlanta with more delegates than Mike, the caucus. I'm not saying that that's a definite fact by any means. Nobody knows. I think that that is not an off the wall proposition that he may have that. No, I'm not. I really am not. I really am not. I don't claim to be a great expert. Clearly he has done better than anyone has thought. He got beaten in Connecticut, not a great surprise. The caucus has done well in New England. He did outstandingly in Michigan. And what is really interesting and I think of all the developments that have taken place in this campaign so far is this. It is not surprising that Jesse Jackson is getting an overwhelming percentage of the black vote. Certainly that's not a surprise or of other minority votes. Even in Connecticut, according to the paper, where he lost badly, he got 20% of the white vote. In Michigan, it's estimated that he did between 25 and 35% of the vote. That's what the surprise is. And I think that that could have a mushroom effect. I think that the more whites who see other whites voting for Jackson and especially working class people, I think you could have a real snowball effect and I think he could do very well. So the main point that I'm making, Andy, is not to tell you that he is definitely going to come in that I know more than experts. I don't. I think that there's a reasonable chance. I think that it would be irresponsible for those of us in Vermont who are supporting Jackson's candidacy not to do everything that we can to get them the delegates from the state of Vermont. And what is awkward to me, of course, historically is I am not a Democrat. I have never gone into a Democratic caucus. But I intend to be at the Burlington High School on April 19th. I intend to urge fellow progressives to come out around the state to their caucuses and to do the best that we can get to the best that we can do to get a lion's share of the 14 delegates for Jackson. It's about all that I'm saying. He's been showing lately in the fact that he is picking up steam and is the frontrunner. People are calling him that. Well, I wouldn't say that he's the frontrunner, but he's doing very well. He had one more delegate in the caucus. Not when I heard. But what this has done, it seems, what has put Jackson in a position being out in front is now they're taking shots of him, which is something new. And yesterday, Senator Gore went after him on the Middle East to begin to do a Jewish group in New York. And that was the first public attack of that time that I think has come up. I wonder if you think Jesse's vulnerable on that and what do you think of Gore going after him on that issue? Well, I think two things. I think now that he is really considered to be one of the frontrunners, I think clearly he is going to come in for a lot more criticism. I think in the case of Gore, Gore has finished, in my opinion, and I think this is a desperate, cheap shot attempt to try to weaken Jackson, which I don't think will work. But I think when you are a frontrunner, when people now have got to contemplate that you may be the candidate of that party, you're going to come in for a lot of criticism. Some of it valid, some of it not valid. In terms of the Middle East, I am comfortable with Jackson's position. I think Jackson's position now says that you need to protect the State of Israel, which is clearly absolutely right. And you've got to deal with the very serious problems of the Palestinian people. What's going on in Israel now is unfortunate. It's tragic. And the truth of the matter is, I think Jackson has the capability of bringing people together. The truth of the matter is that I think there has got to be a bringing together of people in the Middle East. I think Jackson has a personality and an ability to bring people together, which is very strong. So he's going to get his share of criticism. I think that there's got to be bringing together of the Israelis and the Arab people. I think the United States has clearly not shown the leadership that it should be shown. The United States has tremendous clout throughout the Arab world and in Israel. And I don't think it has made the demands that it has got to make on the Arab leadership as well as the Israeli leadership. I think Schultz has made a start in the right direction, not far enough. Again, that's an issue you're going to have to give me a little bit of time to formulate. When all of you are respecting her, how much time do you need? The riots are into their 100th day. Two more Palestinians died today. The death toll among the Palestinians is above 110. How much time do you need? What is going on in the Middle East right now is obviously a tragedy. There's no question about it. The site of Israeli soldiers breaking the arms and legs of Arabs is reprehensible. The idea of Israel closing down towns and sealing them up is unacceptable. You have had a crisis there for 30 years. You have had people at war for 30 years. You have had a situation and have a situation within some Arab countries where there is still Arab leadership talking about the destruction of the State of Israel and the murdering of Israeli citizens. Clearly, you have a gulf there and you have a gap there that has been an enormous problem. The point that I'm making is I don't have a magical solution to that problem. It is a tragedy. What is going on in Israel today is horrible and is very sad. What has got to happen is Arab states. Let's not forget the role of Jordan and King Hussein. Sometimes we concentrate on Israel. You still have an autocracy there. You have a king. You have got to bring together the Arab states and the United States has that capability. We are pouring billions of dollars in arms into Arab countries. We have the cloud to demand that they and Israel who are also heavily financing begin to sit down and work out a sensible solution to the problem which will guarantee the existence of the State of Israel and which will also protect Palestinian rights. I mean I don't be very honest with you. I don't have a magical solution to that tragedy which has been going on for 30 years that other people you know don't have also. You don't have any preliminary recommendation for incentives to get them negotiating. The preliminary recommendation that I have is that the United States of America is pouring billions of dollars into arms and other type of aid in the Middle East. Has the United States of America used its cloud, the tremendous cloud that it has by providing all kinds of aid into the Middle East to demand that these countries begin to sit down and talk about a reasonable settlement which will guarantee Israel's sovereignty which must be guaranteed but which will begin to deal with the rights of Palestinian refugees. That's the demand that I would make. Is that a call for sanction? No it is not. Can you give us all more specific specifics about what you mean? I think I've given you enough that I can give you three. I mean it's a fair question but there are 50 fair questions. You haven't asked me a question as to what we are going to do about the fact that this year there'll be 100 million people perhaps starving to death in the world today. Within this vein of questioning within this line of questioning you're wondering what your position would be, what your recommendations would be in terms of arms. Should we have a reduction in arms contracts? What do you call it? Well I think what I am saying is if you have a nation like the United States which is pouring substantial amounts of money into a nation into the nations of the Middle East you have negotiating cloud. You can say to Jordan, you can say to Egypt, you can say to Israel that listen, this type of situation, this continued conflict, this denial of Palestinian rights, this hatred of Israel and on the part of certain individuals who would like to destroy the state of Israel is unacceptable. Jordan has got to accept its responsibility for the Palestinian problem as well. You have the ability when you are the United States of America which is supporting the armies of the Middle East to demand that these people sit down and work out a reasonable settlement protecting the rights of the Palestinians, protecting the rights of Israel. That has not yet been done. Or else what? Or else you begin to cut off arms. If I am supplying somebody else with money I can to a significant degree call the tune. We have found that the United States has been able to destroy the economy of Nicaragua for example. We have found that the United States is able to destroy the economy of Panama. If the United States goes into the Middle East and demands a reasonable, a responsible and a peaceful solution to the conflict that has gone there because of its cloud, because of the tremendous amounts of money that it is pouring into that region I think we can do it. I don't think we have exerted leadership that we should be exerting. Well that raises an interesting question about Nicaragua and about other countries around the world where we always have a lot to say about human rights and human rights violations and yet we haven't even seen more than an eyebrow race in Washington but what's been going on in Israel and as you pointed out you see people nightly on the news being beat up with rocks and what about the on those human rights they absolutely it is an absolute disgrace it goes without saying soldiers of any nation especially an occupying power are not allowed under any moral code to break the arms and legs of people that is absolutely unacceptable period in that type of behavior must be condemned equally what must be condemned is the fact that there are people within Arab countries who still to this day believe in the destruction of the state of Israel that is also unacceptable the United States has got to play a leadership role in what is a morass what has been year after year war after year war of conflict I mean I don't what I'm here to suggest is I don't know any magical solutions except to say that I think that the United States has not taken the leadership role that it should be taking in that region may appear at congress you could be part of that leadership that would make a decision and what would you do as we said the situation has been subtracted I think I've said as much as I mean let me just tell you that in general during this course of this campaign we'll be making detailed statements as best as I can do what I've told you today is that I deplore the type of activity that is going on in Israel I deplore the hatred that exists among certain Arab leaders that in fact there's going to have to be a coming together if the people of Israel and the Arab countries are going to survive I don't have a magic formula to the solution the United States should be exerting far more clout than it is presently it has the power to demand that certain changes take place on the part of the Arabs and on part of the Israelis and we have not used that cloud I think Schultz is beginning the process I would suggest that we go further is there anything that bothers you about Jesse Jackson yes I mean there are things that bother me about every human being in the world Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson is not a messiah and I think if one wants to look at the issues that Jackson is raising if one were to look at the kind of support what is most exciting about Jackson's campaign and to me really what politics is about is who are you representing who is behind you you know there are some people for example who will criticize Jackson and say and Gore made the statement I think the other day Jackson has never held an elected a position what will he do when he's present I don't see that as an important issue I think anybody who is as smart as Jesse Jackson and he's in fact in my judgment a brilliant person has the capabilities of bringing behind you the brightest people you can find to help you formulate the policies that you're developing okay and I think Jackson certainly has that capability what is most important about Jackson's candidacy is for the first time that I can remember certainly in my lifetime a candidate is running for president of the United States who is talking to poor people who is talking to working people and elderly people and women and peace activists who is part of a movement for social change that once you have that momentum once you have those people behind you then you have the strength to make policy okay I don't you know what do I not like about Jackson um it doesn't bother you that he doesn't have any national experience that is I don't think a significant point I don't want to get into I mean you know Jackson is not a perfect human being certainly the expression the statement that he made the Jaime town a year ago was an unacceptable statement you know man is not a perfect human being but by-and-law I should I should say this that I am far more enthusiastic about the Jackson's presidential campaign than I have been about any major party campaign in my lifetime do you have any problems with the fact that he's a christian minister and a reverend being the president of the United States no I really don't I think on the contrary what what excites me is that if you understand that in the south um that's where a lot of black people are they're within the church movement that's where Martin Luther King came I mean I think one might be able to make the same criticism Martin Luther King was also a Baptist minister in the south that's where the black leadership often comes from uh and and again the exciting thing about Jackson's campaign is that this is a guy who comes from the grassroots we say well this guy has never been a senator he's never been a congressman or a mayor or a governor that's right but he has been in the streets he has put his life on the line fighting not only for the legal rights the moral rights of black people but of all working people this guy has had the guts to be where the action is he's been on the picket line with strikers he's been in demonstration demonstrations he has put his life on the line a dozens of different times and I think one of the things to be honest with you that I think is impressing people all over the country people so why is Jackson doing so well I think aside from his political views where he is touching the nerve of this nation in beginning to speak about issues that other candidates shy away from about who owns America the other issue I think the other reason I think the people are responding to him is they they appreciate the courage the courage of this guy he started out with nothing with no money a black man attempting to get elected in a system which has never in a million years thought to elect a black person and I think people are impressed with his courage with his dynamism with his willingness to articulate issues that are relevant to the disenfranchised the poor people 50 percent of the people in America have given up on the political process they don't even vote who talks about those people who talks about them like the caucus talk about them get what talk about them they're non-human beings they're not part of the political process and one of the interesting points you know people are talking about if Jackson gets the nomination can he win who knows and I think what the experts are saying is yeah the conservative whites are going to desert him which is perhaps true but the interesting question in fact the most interesting question that modern American politics has ever seen and we'll see is will the 50 percent of the poor people the working people who are now not participating in the political process who have given up can Jackson get some of those people to jump in and say you know for the first time in my life I'm poor I got nothing I can't pay my phone bill I can't pay my health care bills I'm gonna vote because Jesse Jackson is standing up for my rights can he begin to get to those people I think he can so while in fact he may end up losing some conservative white votes some racist white votes I think there is a real chance that he could do what Mondale couldn't do in a million years is that is to bring millions and millions of poor people and working people into the political arena who in the past never participated that's the interesting question he's the best of the bunch in your view but there must be something you don't like about him uh Enrique every in response to the question just say so okay I would choose not to I'm gonna give you the best answer yeah Andy pardon me I didn't hear you bringing this home a little bit there's the notion of you going to a local democratic congress and rubbing elbows with the likes of Dr. Schindler and Mark Kaplan yes strange feeling right does this represent some kind of milestone in your political career no it doesn't Andy and I'm glad you asked that question and I've tried to articulate that as clearly as I could okay it is awkward I freely admit it is awkward for me to walk into a democratic party caucus believe me it is awkward uh and it's taken a little bit of thinking on my part before I and I think other progressives have been prepared to make that statement but we're caught in the bind we see an historical moment here where we see a candidate who is the strongest candidate that working people and poor people have ever had okay we have already participated in the process we asked people to come out on March 1st and to vote for Jackson so we simply say okay we have done that but here in Burlington or in Rutland or where our supporters are we shouldn't walk into the caucuses and vote for him so that he can actually get the delegates to win the nomination in Atlanta that would be hypocritical but from my point of view I am not a democrat period and it's uh you know yeah the question you're going to lead and you're going to be perceived as a leader anyway there's the jackson effort at the local caucus that's what you're doing yeah right it's going to have some kind of uh at least a philosophical impression of people I mean it may I mean that's why a fact of called this press conference in the real world you know you have an option it would have been totally logical and consistent for me and other people in the progressive movement to say you know what we're not democrats we're not going to participate that would be a logical and reasonable statement to make we're going to sit this one out it doesn't matter whether jackson does well in vermont or not that would have been a reasonable rational statement to make I think to have done that would be a tragic mistake something of historical importance is happening right now my preference would have been that jackson run as a third party person that my enthusiasm would have been significantly greater he has chosen not to do that so the options that we have ought to stay outside of the process not do everything that we can to seize this historical moment and elect the guy who might be the best president that this country has had in the 20th century we could sit it out or we can get involved politics is a funny thing you know you could be rigid you can say hey i'm not a democrat i'm not participating you could do that i think that that would be a mistake and i think when you're in politics when you're dealing with life and death issues of what's going to happen to this state and to this nation you got to be fluid you've got to be flexible at this particular moment i think it is right and proper for progressives to play a stronger role as they could play in doing everything they can to get votes with jessie jackson