 This is Sonali. Thank you all for coming out sometime for attending today's webinar on the episode 14 of the BusinessX Learning Series Invest, Scale and Value. Today's topic is on understanding private equity and venture capital investments. To all the attendees out there, please type in any questions you might have in the Q&A section and we'll try to answer as many as possible at the end of the session. I would now like to welcome our speaker, Mr. Gaurav Mariah, Chairman and Founder of the Franchise India Group. A very warm welcome to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Sonali. And welcome, friends, and welcome to another edition with BusinessX. BusinessX is a platform of Franchise India where we work on helping people raise capital. That's one part of our business. And second side, we also work with companies who are now looking to exit. So these are very interesting times. On one side, we're seeing companies coming to us and they want to raise capital. And this is what's going to be our today's discussion, you know, how do you really raise money and what is the difference between, as Sonali said, venture capital or a private equity fund? And how do you really have to approach them? What is their mindset in terms of investment and so on? I'll also even touch upon angel investors because that's something which is a large part of our startups actually look at. A lot of people come with ideation stage and they probably would look at maybe an angel investing project. And how do we really, these ecosystems work differently and what is their perspective in investment and so on and also we also see these days, a lot of companies coming to business X because they are at some kind of stress, especially because what has happened in the COVID period, it's very prolonged. Last six months, almost every company either have run out of their cash flows or they've run out of their reserves. So their desperate need either to raise capital to flow and sustain for our period and some would not like to do that but they would like to probably look at an exit. And so a lot is going on at this moment and I think it makes a very interesting space and that's why we crowded the series so that we can create it more interactive and understand what is going on in the market and share some of the thoughts and what is happening with everybody. So it's very, I call it that sometimes it's becoming challenging times. Because at this stage, our supply side is very high. So a lot of companies coming in, becoming very, very choosy at business X, who can we work with, who can not work with and so on and who would be attractive asset to really look at it. Surprisingly to me, this time also got for with us, we've got about 25 or different assets which have come in which are profitably performing businesses and some people are coming out because for them rather than, they want to exit at this time for profit. While the valuations are not high but they are coming to us for looking at assets. So before we go into the next step and I see a lot of people already joined in, it'd be interesting if you can go on a Q&A box and introduce yourself in what capacity you're coming in. Are you a startup who's looking to raise the money? Are you a scale up, which means that you've already gone to a maturity level, you've reached to a certain size. And I'll explain to you what is the difference between a scale up, what kind of companies would come into the scale up structure. And if you are already on a mature cycle or even if you are a company which for the other reasons and now looking to exit. So go out and introduce yourself. So I know what kind of mix we have here and what kind of answers you would be looking for your enterprises. So it will be helpful to really focus on that rather than giving the theoretical information on business. It is always good to really understand. So welcome Anil Prasoon is a startup, wish to be a scale up. So that's the good space, you know, and I feel the scale ups have a great opportunity at this time. You know, I would say that the priority sector at this stage is not a scale up startup is hard, unless you have very something which is very destructive. While I think there is a still a lot of angels out there who are ready to invest startups, but they are choosing very few real good ideas, right? So capital becomes tight and becomes focused. And I can tell you that's where we are at this stage. It becomes extremely focused. It becomes laser focused today and people are just now very clearly looking at some businesses to invest and that's what we want, what they would like to invest on. So let me read through Dinesh. Welcome is a startup, a tech startup and a consultant. Tech startup is always exciting. Fiat is a disruption structure. So Mr. Kulkarni is early stage, HR technology startup, bootstrap, revenue generating is good. Then you already moving towards some kind of a structure. AI application with Anil. So that's a good, I mean, early growth stage. Early growth stage is also a good structure. So keep writing, keep introducing yourselves. A lot of people are joining. So we would be able to understand. So let's understand that there are a lot of ways you can raise capital. And I feel that the first, let me define the entire ecosystem. And in business X, we divide the into systems into two types of assets, right? One are what I call performing assets and performing assets can be even early stage assets. They might not have historical data performance but they are very promising assets, right? So they have a very clearly three to five year horizon being set. There are structured growth paths in available. So these are to me very clearly performing assets. Performing assets normally would attract financial investors. And unless until it is a business which has some kind of value addition with somebody who's very strategic also would normally attract a lot of financial investors. But there are also cases where it's a non-performing asset, it's not done well and it has somewhat of stress which is there. That would attract always more strategic investors. Somebody who can come and turn around load assets, right? And this can happen at any level, right? At this stage, we will see a lot of investments in a stressed infrastructure companies, a lot of these real estate companies, you'll see a lot of private activity money coming there. Because then the assets are good but for some reason they are stressed at this stage. It can be liquidity, it can be other challenges and it can be done around that. There can be a shareholder value which can be improved. So there would be a lot of strategic private equity investments which would come in and they also very focused. Private equity also are very focused in certain sectors. They very clearly go on a certain sector and they know there is a level of a turnaround they can do on that asset and they can still bring the asset back in the performing side. So very clearly one has to really understand where you are and what kind of asset you really are doing it. So let me see, Nidhi is a craft sutra. So the interesting connect Nidhi. So that's interesting. So I would love to understand on this asset because it looks very interesting how you use AR on and video commerce on this. So these are kind of our future technologies and if this has been integrated in your business that's very good. So and then we get into the investment classes and investment classes also are different. So people at what stage you need to go to which kind of investor and how they really do that. So let's define this piece in a little bit of a theoretical structure and then we go into little more into depth of discussion in terms, especially post COVID how we are going to approach these kind of investors. So the large part of the startups would essentially go to early stage. If you've no background of business, no background of performance, it's just a disruptive idea. Little bit of a maybe performance has happened but you know early stage, very early stage the only answer is angel. Angel why? Because they normally are high risk takers. They're individuals and they've come normally come in groups and they are a lot of angel networks. They normally network would decide and there was a lead investor who take a call. Normally he would have a viewpoint on that domain. Say it's a technology or is a bioscience or something like that. There would be some angel who would have some kind of a pedigree on that but in very individualistic and a lot of people along with him without putting a lot of due diligence on the business they would go and do that. While at business sex, even if we get an angel to come to look at an asset we say at least maybe at 20, 20 hours of due diligence is very important for you to even look at a startup. You've seen a lot of people doing what it impulse retail investments. So they would just take a call. They would take a position in the investment in the company because the investment size are normally low. A typical investment we've seen in India would happen anything from a say 40, 50 lakh rupees to about say three, four crores which would be pulled between multiple angels which would come together and invest that. Because they don't put the kind of legal and commercial cost and due diligence and so on so forth. So they normally would tend to give very what I call an institutional viewpoint on businesses they would invest. Normal parameter for them is to really look at industries which have a high scale story or there is a peer example or there is a competitive example in the world or any part of India which has actually got that kind of scale or they would have seen a lot of when we see or private equity interest already in that space. So they would go and invest into that. So they know that there is a potential 15 month, two year, three year kind of an exit cycle which is defined. And a large part of their investment is driven from seeing the founder. I have really realized that 70, 75% of decision is a founder and 25% is the business idea. That's how they would really look at it. That's where I think most impulsive and more intuitional kind of investment would go through for my angel viewpoint. India has a very large now angel group. At this stage I think a lot of them are shying away from investments because they don't see exits clearly defined. So as a founder, very clearly if you are able to really demonstrate that part at what level you will be able to give certain amount of return back or exit structure or show the equity growth of the business model in your business and how fast you will make the business sustainable and commercially proven that all would give a comfort for a somebody to invest. Or there is a certainly a very destructive area like Deepak is talking about enterprise ass. You know, this is everybody's talking about that. So there are some categories which are absolutely top class in the business. You know, some industries are very clearly while it looks like it's you're late in edu-tech. I still feel edu-tech is very interesting. I still feel print tech is still very interesting. There is something destructive available there. I still feel the health tech is very important, interesting. So a lot of these are circular economies, very interesting. But anything which can be scaled, you know, scale is very important. Scale to me, a conventional businesses might not if your growth needs equal proportion of resources to be deployed, a lot of people would shy away because this is not a time where you can do very conventional classic growth kind of structure. But if you are a technology player or anything which needs to be done, which can show some kind of scale and a faster growth, then somebody would like to invest. Angel and VCs tend to, while they are very two different identity, one is very corporate identity and one is a very individual. They have a very different behavior, but their style of investment in the kind of companies they look at is very similar. So essentially they would like to look at companies which are very, very high scale of growth, largely something which is technology, a new sector, emerging sector, futuristic businesses. So these are kind of categories they would look at. And, but they have a very different approach of investing. One is a very clearly professionals, investment professionals who understands investment, they would go and put a lot of parameters in terms of doing a right DD on the asset and then making a call on that because they're not carrying their own money, they're carrying monies coming and raised from independent other investors, what we call the limited partners. So they have raised monies from back from pension funds and other things. So this is a fund. So obviously the responsibility of professionals is very different to an individual who's investing on the entire thing. So when LPs have been invested into this business, they have a certain amount of investment guidelines and certain amount of investment returns which is expected out of that. So they would, VCs would invest very differently in approaching that. VCs are normally also have a very big difference in their approach. While the investment category also they would look at very differently. They would normally look at nothing less than two, three million kind of investment part. So which means that they need to go from a scale to a startup to a scale companies which can quickly sweat out that kind of capital and they have ability to observe that capital because the kind of time involvement of these professionals and the cost of managing an asset is very high for them. And so they would like to see a company reaching that. A lot of people have done mistake. Even the VCs have done mistake in picking up two early companies and that's not work for them because the kind of monitoring and the capability they require was not there and the maturity of the business also were not there to handle that. So VCs have, so both have very different what I call the responsibilities and motivations. Very, very clear responsibilities and motivations. When it is an angel, normally they are not involved in too much of day-to-day functions. They would like to be informed but they're not involved in the day-to-day business or reaching out to the CEO or a combining strategies or there is, but VCs normally would like to do that. And today I think successful good VC firms are very closely working with CEOs. They act like a sounding board, almost every decision. CEOs are also like founders are also like to take to VCs to really take their opinions and then only they would like them to really take some strategic calls in the business but today they don't disturb and value. And because I think it's difference of whose money you are parking, right? What is a motivation and how we want to really do that? So that's how angel and a VC would really differ in terms of their doing it. VCs also would have their life cycle to really see how they're going to find an exit. And normally they would like to see the business reaching a certain benchmark and goal sheet where they are able to find that thing. VCs would always keep it tight for your company's strategic focus because sometimes they don't let while when you are with angels, you have a lot of freedom to go through and a lot of changes and evolve in and your business model and the business model what you thought would work and you still want to change that model you much easily able to do that but as you go to a VC then it becomes even more tighter. I've seen a lot of businesses gone down where there was a conflict between the way the business was to run and the VCs opinion on that because now you have a mandate race you have done and deployed money and there is a certain amount of control that they would like to seek and versus doing that. While VCs don't like to take a large play in the businesses they would like to have a very, very small play in the business but they would like to really keep the company's strategic focus very, very clear. And that's something which is especially in India I think because of the lot of experiences people have got like especially in when we look at the food space, quick service restaurant space and space almost all VCs have burned money, right? So they have almost everybody has taken haircut. So they become extremely conscious. Some sectors in India have been very poorly performing in as well as the venture capitalist concept. Now this is what the broader difference would come between the so to say angel and a VC. Now look at another comparison you will do which is a more private equity and VC now while their investment rate style is very same the both would go and raise monies from the same LPs and they would raise money which we call the private market play. So just to give you and I think India still is very far for how much the influence private market would have on Indian economy. But if you look at our economy like US which is very mature 25% of the total economy would be controlled by these private market players. So pretty much between the VCs and the private equity funds they would control 25 to even more the entire economy of US. So which means a lot of brands and a lot of businesses around you you will see they would have a very strong participation of these two and so it's a very, very big number. We're talking about $27 trillion American economy and we control 25% above by this private market. And then you have public market which is listed companies and so on so on. Now these companies have again very different approach both from investment viewpoint the kind of companies they approach the kind of sectors they approach and so on so very clearly but the VCs would say in the same style like I have discussed with on Angel they like very fast growing companies disruptive technologies and so on so on. So they would like to be participating there. They normally would like to hold minority the smaller shareholdings in the business and let the promoter and the company run by them. On the private equity side they are not really industry so to say centered sometimes they are very infrastructure focused or some are funds raised for a certain particular thing but largely they don't need to do that and they don't really go only on high growth companies. They are also available for a lot of conventional classic old businesses, you know, random businesses, something which is stagnant businesses because where they see there is a larger unlock value and their participation and coming into businesses they can make a big change in that. PE funds are also equally not shying away for taking larger equity positions. They can sometimes take controlling positions in the companies and a lot of businesses are run by now completely PE funds. So there are big funds which runs, I mean there's a fund out of UK which is runs about 78 global food brands where they pretty much run the complete businesses and they have a large fund which is running multiple businesses and as the businesses they would be able to turn around each asset, they would take the asset out and either sell that asset independently or list that asset independently or see that whatever logical way of organizing. So these funds really are little bit of a control freak. They like to participate more and more into taking control of businesses and these can be businesses across sector, you know. So you see a lot of real estate play controlled by funds, a lot of infrastructure play controlled by funds, a lot of other assets controlled by them. So this is where they would largely work on that. So they are very different from VC and private equity firms are extremely different in terms of how they approach things. The types of companies as I said, will kind of company invest on, they will be very, very different. They also have a very different levels of capital investment. PE can do in the same asset multiple rounds of investment to just go and take the position better on the company. They also have very different objectives to achieve on businesses and life cycles to achieve on the entire thing. And as I said, there is also a different involvement in the company's life cycle. So they are very, very different from our perspective of that. So this is what essentially would be done in terms of a, you know, while the both would have very different similar kind of goals to which means that they would certain time would like to exit that asset and bring the equity back and pay off their investors which kind of returns they've committed. But between both of them, I think that the investment and participation of the business would make a big, big difference on how they really want to do that. So they're also private equity firms don't even mind participating into what I call the leverage buyouts. So a lot of businesses now these days are highly leveraged and you're seeing a lot of cases going into, you know, risk of liquidation or bankruptcy and things of that. At that stage also a lot of people are approaching these companies. And if it is a good asset, very good but somehow very leveraged and structured and the PE feels that they can participate for some time to clean up the asset and bring the profitability back. They don't mind participating into these businesses. But last six months, the whole environment has become a little bit of scary because of a couple of reasons. One, the predictability of performance of these assets are becoming more and more challenging. So these days when we talk to any of these investors, I mean, we talk about angels or VCs or private equity firms and things of that. The only thing which is making them scared at this point while they are loaded with cash, some of them have really made a good money. Even at an angel level, a lot of people are sitting on cash and they have made some real good investments. The problem today is that they are feeling facing that this might be the predictability of the business performance for at least one to two years is looking very difficult. So if your business model can demonstrate that, this is one of the areas which I am, first question I asked anybody who approaches me, I say, show me how do you stabilize future revenues? The only one question is my starting point. And if you are able to show me how do you stabilize a future revenues and can demonstrate very clearly, I would like to talk to that asset, absolutely. But a lot of times we talk about everything, but we don't talk about how do we really able to stabilize this? And especially in these difficult times, how do you really able to answer this is very important. So that's what becomes a starting point. So understand your business well, go into depth of business modeling and define that how do you want to do it and how much time it is going to stabilize that. Because at this stage we are seeing a company which have loaded, we have money, but they are not taking decisions. These private equity firms or VCs or anybody is not taking decisions because they feel that there is a, in some kind of a risk in perceptions. So any kind of a perspective you put for the business, it will show some kind of risk. And because they are running somebody's money, they are not interested to do that. Some are proposing flexible structures. Flexible structures, which means that some kind of a structure can be done, which is kind of a fixed return and participating in equity. So they want to do some kind of balancing between certain fixed performance and certain structure, which also is very complex because then you need to really create different kinds of instruments. Which normally sometimes they would create an interest varying convertible instruments, which means that they would need to structure some kind of a basic performance of interest. But eventually it can become even more complex unless and until they are able to do that. So they want to do the risk adjustment. Most of the companies would like to do some form of risk adjustment in terms of that they are able to really do that. So you need to understand that this moment if you are approaching any of these three, you need to first demonstrate in terms of what is the kind of a predictability you can show on your cash reserves. On most important other side is that how do you really make sure that you are able to give some kind of a risk adjustment. I think this environment would stay like that. Unless and until you have something which is outstanding and there is a certain requirement and there is also a future buyer which clearly is demonstrated out there. Which also is very important because sometimes you have a very category which has a clear demand from a future buyer or a future aggregation or a future consolidation in the market which is very clearly visible. Right in some sectors I clearly see like in Edutek I can clearly see that there would be more and more acquisitions. They would continue to do more acquisition because everybody is looking for a larger pie and acquiring this subscriber base. So different categories, the big one, even bigger and the bigger and so exactly what happened in the e-commerce space. So all the small, small companies would get merged into becoming a larger giant. So similarly all these disruptive technologies which are going out, if you have something which you have in dieting I always say create your cluster, create your entry barrier. Don't go everywhere. Like there are companies that are coming to us and I'm only focusing on coaching. Somebody is coming and say I'm only focusing on this. I'm only focusing on test prep. I'm focused. I say go deep down into that. Create your subscriber base, get maximum share of that. And once you are able to get to a critical mass, there would be somebody who would come and echo. So it creates a lot of value. If you are in something which you create, go and deep market entry barrier. And once you're able to create a market entry barrier there would be a certain mode of consolidation. So you will be attracting a lot of good money if you have these kinds of elements. So today's session was really about defining all these pieces. Also asking very clearly to yourself what stage you are in. Who really want to achieve that? I will be more than happy to take some questions because I think there are a lot of questions that come in. And Sani if you want because we already have an hour but you can take another five, seven minutes of questions before we try to close the discussion. Sure. Thank you so much for another wonderful session Gaurav sir. So yes, we have a few questions lined up with us. The first question comes from Mr. Prasoon. He says what is the ROI model or expectation from investors if the startup is into digital lead generation for fintech the startup has existing revenue and good future cash flows? Good question Prasoon. I think returns of investment at what stage and what revenue you are in. But typically this is, most of the times investors don't look at dividends. They very clearly looking at equity multiple. So if they entered at X, they would look at ideally would be a 10 X story and one has whenever you mature when especially you need to be angel and you are early startup. That's the kind of a mindset they would like to have. Sometimes people have got even higher multiples and before the exit. So they are looking for more equity gain in terms of what stage they enter and what stage. The company might not be profitable till that time. The company can take even more longer period that you have actually do multiple rounds of that. So every investor would only come for his equity gain in terms of what value I started from and how you demonstrate the value improvement and value is built on your subscriber base. How many subscribers are buying, how they're buying, how the margins are everyday improving. All these smaller indications would collectively come down and show the value gain in your business. So one is a subscription in terms of how big your subscription is gone in and how you're demonstrating your margin improvement as you along in the business market. So these would create answers for your future valuation. And if you are able to demonstrate that, then they would be looking at it. But if a thumb rule I have to give, I will say if I enter at a certain level, I would look at it and it's written four, two, three years. The next question is from Mr. Bhavin Gandhi. He says, what's your take in the food tech space? We are in the business of listing home chefs on our platform Chef History. Since many people are now in the comfort of their homes, they have turned into home chefs and we are tapping that on them. Yeah, so a lot has been done in this space and a lot of is not something which I'm hearing first time. So a lot has been done in the space of food tech, integrating home chefs. The problem has been efficiencies, problem has been consistency, problem has been the only aggregation don't make you money. So you need to really define, sometimes we know the problem area but we really don't define why would, how this would become a commerce? How would you become not only problem solving but it's a problem solving with making money. So eventually where is the money to be made here? And those answers don't really come very clear. And so I remember one company out of Bombay did the same thing from home chef. Then they found that their inconsistency in their life cycle, the consumer experience is going down. So then they started creating these shared kitchens where home chefs can come there and work because they need a lot of logistics spot and supply chain and things of that. And that the model become industrial and then hold. So there has been, I mean, I don't know what stage you are in and how you're able to do that. But I've seen that this is a good problem to solve but I've still yet to see companies which have very compelling commercial models in this business model. And I personally feel at this stage, any business you want to present to a VC or an angel or even a mature structure, I think you need to really clear about the next 18, 20 months, the kind of performance financially you can demonstrate to that. There is no endless money now available and this would not be for next three, four years. So people have to really say that, okay, a fund by business get to a certain level and I know quickly I can make it sustainable and it can start showing some performance. I would like to bank businesses which in a shorter period can become self-sustainable. Right. The next question is from Mr. Vikram Jeet Sahay. He says, how do we address the exit options in an investor pitch and what parameters should be covered in it? Good question, Vikram Jeet Singh. I think this is more driven from the investor viewpoint. I mean, I feel that even if you get early, good angels, sometimes very good pedigree angels come in and invest with you. There should be no rush to give them exit. They've been sitting on that, creates a lot of good credibility doing it. But investors would like to define that. Now they would like to define what is there, how they can exercise exits and sometimes they want both things to on their hand because they have entered early. They want to keep the exit option also with them very clearly when they want they can exit or they can sell it to third party. They can sell it back to promoter. They can sell it to VC or anybody who comes in. So they have on to have come an option and they also have an option sometimes to tag along. They don't want to exit sometime or they would partially exit and partially tag along. So all these are normally investors would like to do that. Intelligent investors would exercise both. They would try to keep most of the exit options completely one-sided available with them. But you as a company brand also, you can really negotiate at that level. You need to really define that if certain stage you have a ability or even sometimes a grid pre, a grid formula where you can really go back and exercise and make them exit. So that also is a possibility which can happen. Right. The next question is from Mishri Srivastav. She says, we are bootstrapped. We have existing revenue streams and are already profitable basically a proof of concept. Now to scale need to raise funds. What would you suggest? So I have to go maybe into much deeper into your business model to really advise you who you should be looking at and what kind of business you have and what is the need and is the need only the capital or somebody you need also to be a part of the whole mentoring and incubation cycle of taking your business to a certain level. And that one has to really be clear on but who you really want to do that. So, but if you send me your business model and I'll be more than happy to really evaluate that and that business x we have do without zero obligation. If you just send a share that information we'll be more than happy to send you our thought process. And even if you want us to link you with some of the early investors or some networks we work with almost all the networks in India. We would be happy to connect you there. And we also add entrepreneur which is another company of a franchise in India. You do a lot of pitch rooms and every month we have a couple of them where you can participate. You can actually directly pitch your opportunities to our potential investors. So a lot of people have actually asked for the email ID or mobile number where they can connect with us and share their business models or their plans. Any last question you want to take up? Yes, so we have another question from Mr. Dinesh Chander. He says, how do they calculate valuations for the startup for investment purpose? Yeah, so this is a good question and this is something which honestly I don't think anybody has an answer really because the startup has no past performance, right? So all the methods of valuation is all about either understanding your past performance and then on base on that predicting your future performance and that's how you distribute that. Otherwise these are purely assumptions and assumptions are normally designed to drive a valuation which means that if I think my business should be valued so much, my ideas should be valued so much I will show the projections to a certain level and then say, I'm doing nothing and I want to be in next three years, 100 crore revenues and discount my 100 crores and put a valuation. That's how, and the truth is, this is how it's done. Now a lot of people would come and say, question how realistic your presumptions are, how realistic is this, how realistic is that? And that debate really comes in and how compelling you have a business plan which can clearly demonstrate that but there would always be a very intuitional way of looking at a business and then there would be a lot of comparatives. Comparatives would mean that in the same industry, same space, what was the last investment done at what valuation? So people create to these two minds. One, they believe in the entrepreneur, believe in his business model, believe in the assumptions he's putting in looks realistic, looks interesting, discount them to whatever capacity you can discount, everybody wants to really discount those things. I don't want to take this kind of assumption, I want to take a lower part of the assumption. So everything which comes in has a range and as an investor, you would like to take a lower range and as a startup, you would like to take a top range. So anywhere between, we can agree on every single assumption, right? So, and then the comparatives, I will compare the opportunity with some other investments which are done in the space and between these two things, the logical valuation would really come in. Sure, so with this, I think we'll just wrap up our session. So thank you so much, Gaurav sir, once again for a wonderful session and for sharing your valuable insights with us. Of course, Nali, I've also shared my email ID, gm at gauravmarai.com. And if you have any interest to come to BusinessXM and seek some support in your business model, we would be more than happy to help you out. This is every Saturday edition which we bring in on four topics, investment, scale, value, how do you value your businesses? And fourth is exit. Our exit was not earlier there, but now because of what is going on, we also want to guide people if they're looking for exit business, it can be stressed and it can be on our profit. So any of these four topics, we take one topic every single week and the subsequent week we do another topic, another topic, that's how this is a 14th edition and we'll continue to keep doing this every Saturday, three o'clock. So if you have interest in the four topics which you are looking at it, please do join us and share your thoughts and any feedback, anything that you want to share with us, we're more than happy to do that. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you to all our attendees for taking out the time and attending the session. We really hope you were able to add some value to your lives through the session. And as Gaurav Sir said, we'll see you next Saturday at 3 p.m. for another session. Our next session will be on scaling up your business. Thank you so much.