 Run it up, they run it back, yeah. Run it up, they run it back, run it back, run it up. We got a series. Happy Monday morning from Los Angeles. This is Run It Back, my lovely co-host. I starred as always on my right with Shyam Sharania, Chandler Parsons, okay. And Eddie Gonzalez on the end. Do you want to explain who styled you today? It's usually hot in studio, so I have shorts on. Give me a break. Pete's safe. Do you have shoes on too or no? I don't have shoes on. I'm happy we've established this now. Now we know, but you have a pen. And so we are destined for greatness. Guys, we do have a series. Just when you thought it was over. I mean, who really thought it was over? But the heat outscored the nuggets in the fourth, big fourth quarter. They win this one by three. Butler, 21, four, nine. Vincent, 23, bam. Who had to do a lot of post-game interviews. 21, nine, and four. First team, by the way, to steal home court from Denver in these here playoffs. And it wasn't even one of those giant nights for Jimmy Butler in doing so, Chandler. So has your perception of the actual series changed at all? Yeah, it's changed, because now it goes from the seven game series where everybody had Denver winning this, right? And it's almost like the nugget players even started believing that. If you looked at Mike Malone last night talking about effort and the press conference of the NBA finals is ridiculous. But now the heat are looking at a five game series where they have home court advantage and it's for anybody to grab, right? And Spomaid a huge adjustment last night where he just keeps running his offensive sets. It's unpredictable. They can't really lock into one thing. He puts Kevin Love in the starting lineup. He throws in and mix and matches the zone defense which really gave them trouble. So I think it was a combination of things last night. But yeah, this is at least now it's we've got a competitive series and it's gonna get interesting. Yeah, I mean, if they're gonna shoot 17 from 35 from three, they're gonna be competitive. They're gonna make that amount of threes and that's what they need. I think both games, both teams can look and say, hey, we didn't play perfect. We have room to improve. But that's the finals. It's competitive. You're playing the other best team in the league. Neither team is gonna play a perfect game in this series. So you're gonna have nights like that. You're gonna have to win when Jimmy isn't great. You're gonna have to win when Jamal Murray isn't great. You're gonna have to win when Michael Porter can't find his shot. And that's what both teams did. And we have a series contrary to what all of us thought. It's not a swing. We have a series and it's exciting to know that. Yeah, to me, the one thing that really stood out was Jimmy Butler down the stretch of the game. He was super clutch. His usage rate in game one, 17%. And then in game two, 27%. He didn't shoot the ball well the first three quarters of the game. But I think the way he finished was big time. And the more you had the ball in his hands and he's able to control the game, control the pace of the game, clearly he had the ball much more in game two, nine assists last night was big time. And then Duncan Robinson, 10 points, four or five from the field, two, three pointers. And I just think if Tyler Hero doesn't go down in game one against the Bucks, does Duncan Robinson play ever? Probably not. And so you have to give credit to him. He stayed ready and he's done it before. I was there in the bubble in 2020. He had a big finals run against the Lakers in that series and he's doing it again. So yes, role, opportunity, it all matters. And Bam Adebayo, I think he got a little bit of flack during the Celtic series. But he's been an anchor for them all year and no one can stop Nicola Joachim. But I think Bam Adebayo has done a good job of keeping the pressure on Joachim on both ends of the floor. He's had two really monster games and we'll see how they do going back to Miami. I love that you shout out to Duncan Robinson. Yeah, it's one thing seeing him knock down threes, but him doing this, getting to the moves, flexing and then flexing, I've never seen this. This is the finals, Duncan Robinson who's showing up and I'm super proud of him because this is the same guy we've talked about before. He's been out of the rotation. I saw something with his contract. I don't know if this is real, maybe you know or not that he had to play a certain amount of games or minutes for his contract to be fully guaranteed. And it seemed like this kid's unfazed and that's kind of what the story with a lot of these players. But yeah, Bam, the way he came out of the game last night, he was so aggressive. He was almost taking bad shots. He was being so aggressive. It's like he heard the acoustics. And so did the Nuggets players because they just looked like they were too cool for school and they thought the series was in the bag. And it's not. It's far from over. But I love what Bam did. He came out, he would get defensive rebounds. He would go coast to coast and he would make Yoko's work. We all know how great he is offensively, but he was putting the pressure on him just making him work. And it makes a huge difference throughout a game and throughout a series. If you want to know how great Bam has been, watch that three minutes when Cody Zeller played against Yoko's last night. And Yoko's looked like Will Chamberlain and Larry Bird together. That tells you how great Bam has been. I know his numbers don't necessarily pop off the screen, 21 points, nine rebounds. But he was timely all night. The huge dunk late, which I thought that was the game. I was surprised the Nuggets made a run after that after the N1 dunk. He's been all over the place on defense. He's the reason they can play the zone the way they do. He covers so much ground underneath the zone. He makes that work for them. And credit to Eric Sposter for stuff like you just said about Duncan Robinson to have him in and out the lineup all year long, mostly out. And to be able to plug him in in the playoffs and for him to be able to come up big like that in the way he did, that's all a testament to the culture they've built there, to the coaching that they've put together. Mike Malone knew this zone was coming for a week and he still couldn't figure out what to do with it last night. Denver's one of the best teams against zones. And so that's why it's kind of surprising that when Miami went zone and the way that they flashed in and out, especially the second half of the game, Denver struggled. And I think their only move was giving it to Nikolay Okig and letting him go, basically bully ball and go to the basket. They weren't really able to generate any offense on the perimeter. So what do you do, Chandler, for them? I mean, you go back to middle school and high school. To break your zone defense, you have to get the ball to the middle of the floor. And they didn't do that very often, but they were getting looks. They weren't making shots, but the heat do a really good job flying around, being active, making the certain guys they want to shoot the ball, shoot the ball. They're annoying. Yeah, and again, they never give up. It doesn't matter what the score is. This team just never puts their head down. They keep saying after the game. I thought it was BS when Jimmy was saying the whole regular season thing doesn't matter. Now they're all saying, they don't care any of our opinions. They don't care the TNT guys opinion. They are just first of four games and I'm starting to really, really believe them. I really do too, but they do not care about anything that any of us are saying. And it's quite refreshing and wonderful to see. Look, Okig, it was a slack night for him. It wasn't a triple double. I don't know what to do with that. 41, 11 and four. Here's the deal though. His team is 0 and 3 in these playoffs. When he scores 40 points or more. I know Spolster doesn't want to hear the phrase, but making Yokich a scorer, are we buying this as a strategy right now? I mean, he's going to get his points. He's going to get his stats. This has more to do with the other guys. Michael Porter's got to show up, right? You can't go too free. Can't only have five points in the critical series like this with the finals, everything on the line. Cobble Pope, their whole thing is their role players have been very, very good. Aaron Gordon has been aggressive and productive. Michael Porter has been productive and making shots. Last night, the role players were in Miami. He outplayed them. Struse got off to a hot start making four threes. Duncan Robinson goes on a 10-0 run himself in the fourth quarter. And the bench and the depth of the nuggets was nowhere to be found. So as good as Yokich is, the offense is always going to go through him. He's going to be able to get his stats. But yeah, I'd like to suppose reaction. You can't put this guy in a box. Nobody can stop him. There's not one thing to do to make other people step up. And everything's going through him regardless. It's just whether or not he's another guy who's knocking down shots and he's passing the ball, or he's being more aggressive. Spoke can say that, but he absolutely called a timeout last night to yell at everybody. Stop doubling. He absolutely can see him explaining to his players that, like, yo, let Cody Zeller be out there, it's fine. Even though Cody Zeller's getting crushed by Yokich. So he can say that, like, yo, it's for the untrained eye. But he absolutely wants to single up Yokich as much as he can. He wants to stay hugged on those shooters. He wants to make it that game rather than Yokich picking them apart with passing. So, you know, I don't know if this is a recipe. You did all that and you barely won by three and they had a shot to win it. But this is the lesser of two evils with the nuggets, for sure. I want to hear from Spolstra on his new favorite phrase. Teams play against Yokich. You turn him into a scorer, you turn him into a passer, and he controls the game. He only had four assists tonight. Yeah, that's ridiculous. You know, it's just that's the untrained eye that says something like that. This guy is an incredible player. You know, twice in two seasons, he's been the best player on this planet. You can't just say, oh, make him a scorer. That's not how they play. They have so many different actions that just get you compromised. We know what you meant, Ramona. We know what you meant. He's just, you know, he's just in the finals. Yeah, what was different then? If he doesn't, if we don't want to use that phrase, what was different for Miami? Well, I think they went to zone a lot more in game two than they did in game one. And I think they, I mean, they didn't want to send as many double teams. And yes, you'd rather have Nicolio go 40 and four than have him go 35 with 12, 13 assists or 11 assists. Like, this is a triple double king right now in the NBA. Like he's supplanted to Russell Westbrook. He's on the same level as Russell Westbrook, Oscar Robertson. So we're going to treat him as such. Like the expectation is on a nightly basis, this guy's going to get a triple double. So if he's going to miss it, of course it's going to make this team look different. So when he was doing, what he was doing right there is that's bully ball. Like that's easy offense for him. Then he makes those threes, changes the game up. That doesn't mean Nicolio, Nicolio, to me, had a bad game. Like he dominated last night. It's just that the way he dominated was a little different than game one. We're so spoiled by him. Yeah. Like 40 and four is a bad game for Nicolio. No, and again, it is a silly thing to say, but it's, it's his, he's at his best when he is facilitating and he is having these 25, 15 and 12 games. And last night you could see they weren't as effective offensively when he doesn't do that. Say that's his fault or didn't have a great game. Like, come on, this guy dominated this game. Guys have to make shots as well. Guys have to make shots. They have to be ready to shoot the ball. Sometimes these guys, we get the ball last night and they were almost confused and shocked and they can't have that. I fully expect Michael Porter to be ready to be, to be more productive. And Aaron Gordon, I loved game one. Aaron Gordon came out as like a mad man, aggressive, physical on the post. He didn't do that last night. It's almost like they thought what we thought in this series was over. Maybe Miami gets one in game, in Miami, but it comes back and it's over in five in Denver. And that's just not the case. Nugget's great. Alex English said it was going to be a sweep. I blame him for this. Mike Malone's done a good job all year of portraying them as underdogs. Let's hear from him. Now let's talk about effort. I mean, this is NBA finals and we're talking about effort. That's the huge concern of mine. You know, and you guys probably thought I was just making up some storyline after game one, and I said we didn't play well. We didn't play well. And tonight, you know, they're starting to line up to start the game. It's 10-2 Miami. Start the third quarter. They scored 11 points in two minutes and 10 seconds. And we just got, you know, we had guys out there that were just whether feeling sorry for themselves or not making shots or thinking they can just turn it on or off. This is not the preseason. It's not the regular season. It's not round. This is the NBA finals. And that to me is really, really perplexing, disappointing. And now they have to go to Miami. He might as well have said Michael Porter. I think he's talking to him in that because he is one player on this team where when his shot isn't going, you can see he kind of lets up a little bit. He doesn't give the effort defensively. His game is predicated on making shots. And so he's right. That can't be the case. That can't be the case in the finals. That can't be the case against the Miami Heat because they will expose you. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of defensive breakdowns. People were going viral with. There's some, you know, pinned down stuff that Bruce Brown and Christian Braun blew up and Duncan Robinson was getting those layups like you pointed out earlier. But yeah, Michael Porter, he has to be better. They need him to be better to win this series. It's crazy how quickly it went from, look, this isn't even really a series. It's over to, you know, the Nuggets are going to have to be better or they're in trouble. But when you get the split, that's what happens. And Miami's going home. They're feeling great. Three wins left for both of these guys and the Heat have home court for the rest of the series. And also Malone hit it on the head. The game one, they had the shots too, Miami. They just didn't hit the shots. When you look at last night, they hit their threes. Jimmy Butler, two threes. Kevin Love, two threes. Gabe Vincent and Max Drews, four threes. These are just shots that weren't going down in game one that he knew this was going to be a problem going forward. So they really have to clean up things defensively. They have to fly around. They have to be giving up the shots that they want to give up. And it seemed like last night and even game one, the Heat are getting what they want. They just happen to make them last night. Normally this question, I don't have a lot of stock in it, but I do today because they are going to Miami now. So more pressure in game three is on who. That's the nuggets. I think again, everyone's talking about this is a sweep or five, maybe it goes to six. Now we're looking at a five game series where I think the Heat are in the driver's seat. They're really good at home. They've been really good on the road. They've been really good in general, but this is a team now who they have all the momentum. They just got this done. They felt like they could have won game one if they happen to make shots. They made proper adjustments. And they're confident. And now they're going back home one to one when they could have just have easily been down 2-0. All the pressure is on Denver. They're the number one seed. They're the heavy favorite. Everyone talks about all year long, the undrafted guys from Miami, all this stuff. All the pressure is on the Denver Nuggets. They're still favorites. Nuggets two and a half points. I'm with Xandler. The Heat look like they can play better still. Caleb Martin still hasn't showed up to this series. Whatever he's dealing with, he still hasn't showed up to this series. Max Russel's O of 10 in game one. They were still in that game. So their shot profile, I don't know the fancy number about how many of them have been wide open, but they've had a lot of open shots. And they're going to knock those down. They have too many shooters. They're going to knock those down. And if they get Tyler Heroback, and he can help just a little bit with ball handling, with dribble penetration, with playmaking. Now they're entirely different team. Now they're even more explosive than they were already in Denver. Yeah, it's, it's, it's dicing now for Denver. Should Tyler Herob be wearing suits, by the way? Should we like enforce some sort of last minute dress code on Tyler Heroback? He should have just worn warm-ups. What was he doing? If you're on the cusp of playing, probably just wear warm-ups. It's ridiculous. Yeah, that's not good. As an advocate for the Denver Nuggets, for the last several months, what I will say is this team has been through a lot of adversity all year. There was a point in March, I think where they had a rough stretch. It was looking ugly for them at different points. They've been through a lot. Ever since Joel Murray towards ACL, they were on the cusp of contending, getting to the finals. So this team's been through it. I'm not gonna count them out after a game two loss. Should they have won for sure? But I think if I'm Denver, I'm still very, very confident going into game three. Very confident. By the way, we've got, we've got some scoophage shams. Some stuff has happened since the last time the three of us, four, four of us. Who did I just cut out? I think there's four. It's so rude. Maybe yourself. Stuff has happened. Talk to me. Yeah, I mean, let's start in Detroit. Monty Williams has signed a massive contract to become the new head coach of the Detroit Pistons. He's signing a deal, six year deal. The base salary is in the 70 million range, higher than 70 million. But guys, this deal could go to $100 million. Coaching deal, $100 million coaching deal. If year seven and eight are exercised, those two are optionaries. So this deal could be eight year, $100 million contract. And I think when Detroit looked at this coaching search, they came down the stretch, Kevin Olly and Charles Lee, the associate head coach in Milwaukee. And I think the more Tom Gore is the owner, GM Troy Weaver, they looked at the marketplace. They wanted to go get an established guy, someone that can really coach Kate Cunningham. This is a young group of men that I think they believe Monty Williams can come in, make a big difference. We saw what he's done in the past, in New Orleans and in Phoenix. Phoenix went from one of the worst teams to one of the best teams. And they had a very young nucleus that grew together. And I think they believe Monty Williams is the right guy for this job. Charles knows a little bit about getting the bag. That is crazy. And zero pressure to win right away. Like what an opportunity, what a job. This guy's getting more than like, Austin Reeves is going to get this summer. He's got a breakout year. He R-15 money. Good Lord. I mean, good for him. I think he's a great coach. I think he's a great man. I think he's going to be great for that development of that roster and that team. And guys like Kate Cunningham, whoever they happen to draft this year. But wow, the highest paid coach of all time is pretty shocking, honestly. But again, good for him. He's going to be there for a long time, win games, lose games. Again, he has zero pressure with this group and he's living in Detroit with that amount of money. He is a king. That's how you do getting fired. Yeah. You sure you don't want to go in the closet? Yeah, maybe I need to. Let's just check over. This Popkins, Bolstra and Mike Malone have like those college clauses. Like, yo, somebody gets more than me. I got a dollar more. That's an insane deal. Steve Kerr's about to be a free, you know. His deals, he's entering the last year of his deal. If you're Steve Kerr, how much do you ask for? 18? More than him. 73. That's what I want. I'm Steve Kerr. I am getting more than Monty Williams. I have to. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. You just lost Bob Myers and all the money you're going to pay him. I'll take some of that. We got to pay someone else. Right. Got to. But I agree with Shams. It's a great gig for him. No pressure. This is the gig where he will thrive in, where he can develop these young guys. Good roster of talent out there. Anna, another pick that's up there. Like, he's going to do well. Oh, yeah, they have a five, right? He's going to be motivated. They got shafted at no boundaries, but a lot of disappointment around the Pistons for sure on lottery night. The opposite of what happened in San Antonio. But I think overall you look at it. You get Monty Williams in the mix. For sure. This is this is a big, big contract. But this is the best coach for this job. I had to do a double take. I was like doing math. Like, whoa, that's OK. That's not what I heard. I was stunned. Not the only coach to get a new gig. No, Frank Vogel. He will be the new head coach of the Phoenix Suns. And this is a process they interviewed. Doc Rivers interviewed Nick Nurse, a couple assistant coaches Jordy Fernandez and Sacramento, and their own incumbent Kevin Young also interviewed. But I think when they went along the process, having a guy that's so defensive-oriented, detail-oriented, I think building his staff out the right way is going to be very important as well. But Frank Vogel checked a lot of boxes. And as soon as they met with them a couple of weeks ago, Matt Ishby of the owner, James Jones, president general manager there, other team officials, they really believe that Frank Vogel as a connector, a collaborator, that he'd be the best man for this job, and they moved forward. He led the team, the Lakers, right there to the 2020 NBA championship. I was there in the bubble. The job that he did, I think, that team was one of the best defensive teams in the league, if not the best. So he's proven as a head coach. And now he gets to coach Devon Booker, Kevin Durant. He's coached Paul George to two Eastern Conference finals appearances. LeBron Jean, Anthony Davis to an NBA finals run. So we'll see what he does. How is he supposed to live on that salary, though? Right. I don't understand. I mean, 6.25 a year in Phoenix? 40 million less than Monty. That's crazy. I don't know about the Phoenix housing market. But it's expensive. It's got to be more expensive than Detroit, right? Paradise Valley is expensive. Yeah, I think so. Probably live in Scottsdale. Airbnb's, they're in a pretty solid price, though. You can get something nice for that deal. You can get something. Something nice. You can get something nice. By the way, Eddie, as a longtime Suns fan. How excited are you about this? I think their issues lie with their roster. And a lot of people are wondering why they're fired. Their coach, he was clearly the hottest coaching candidate on the market because he got hit the Brinks truck. But no, they're going to need to show up their roster. What I do think is interesting is you bring up the bubble. Frank Vogel, he beat the two finalists in that run. And it's not the same roster, obviously, but same systems. And he beat them with that defense. So maybe they're eyeing towards that. But I think they have a lot of questions with that roster. They have to figure out what they're going to do with Chris Paul before they guarantee that money. De'Andre Aten is a hot name throughout the offseason as well. And we'll see where they go. But you don't need a genius to tell Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. He'll make some shots. You need a better roster around in the compete, though. For sure. And you need a coach that's going to put them in the positions, right? Like, you don't really need to motivate Ra-Ra, Kevin Durant, Devin Booker. You need someone that's going to be detail-oriented. Tell them exactly the schemes that are necessary, the rotations that are necessary. But you make a great point. Roster is the number one issue. I think what you see with Frank Vogel, what you saw with Roy Hibbert in Indiana. You saw what we do with Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard, Jovell McGee in LA. That gives me a little bit of optimism for how he might utilize and turn De'Andre Aten, potentially in defensive force. Because every single center he's worked with has been an all-NBA, all-defensive type of guy. Sam Cassell. Love it. Got it. This was, I mean, you talk about assistant coaches joining teams. This was a massive, I think, coup for the Celtics to go get Sam Cassell from the 76ers. He's been Doc's longtime assistant with the Clippers, then with the Sixers, a guy that's interviewed for multiple head coaching jobs over the years. So he'll be going to be Joe Mazzullo's lead assistant in Boston now. So this is a massive get. And I think when you look at this Boston Celtics team, once Eme Udoka, once he departed when the incident happened before the season, this was a coaching staff in a lot of turmoil, I think, in a lot of ways. Because just a lot of moving parts. Damon Stottemire leaves a little midway through the year, goes to take George a tech job. And I think they're having a lot of defections now. A lot of assistant coaches on the Celtics leaving to other teams. Houston. So now you're able to get Sam Cassell a good assistant. I think they're going to be more active trying to get better at it. Does that mean Doc's not coaching? Do we read into that? Yeah, I mean, maybe. But this feels like Sam Cassell's been, his name's been coming up all over the place, right, for head coaching jobs. This feels like they may have told him, hey, you're the head assistant, because when this goes sideways with Missoula, you are the next head coach of the Boston Celtics. And I think Sam Cassell's personality, the way he can relate to players, ex-player being that he was, he's a great hire for them. And I do think that they're going to get off to a hot start. Me and Eddie talked about it before the show. I think they're going to win enough games in the regular season that Missoula is not going to be under any fire early. But just believe, when push comes to shove and Missoula's out, this guy's the next head coach of the Boston Celtics. Got multiple texts, immediately when Shams wrote this news, and essentially all of them said, how long until Sam Cassell's coaching this team? Wow. And that's what everybody's wondering. And that's what you do to your head coach when you hire a name like this. And you tell them, this is your lead assistant. It's exactly what you're doing. Missoula knows that. He's in the big office right now. And Cassell is just waiting to take it over. I guarantee you that. Well, that's a crappy way to go to work every day to put a little pressure on that guy. Yeah. But isn't this sort of the problem with Celtics? There's a lot of pressure at the coaching position. During the regular season, I don't think anyone cares, right? Even if they start out slow, hot, whatever, it's when they get to the playoffs that's the issue. So you may live the entire season and then lose it. This is a Celtics team that literally is going to be based, judged on the playoffs. And we saw it second half this year. They were ebbing and flowing in the second half. We're like, in February, Jason Tatum has had by far his worst month of the season. Besides the All-Star Game MVP. And I think it's like the dog days. They were getting ready for the playoffs. And then once the playoffs came, it was a lot of the same. So we'll see what Sam Cassell can bring. But listen, this guy, you're returning a champion. He won. He was part of that 2008 championship team. There's a lot of pedigree there. And I do think he'll be a good fit for them. Having another guy that can really relate to players and deal with the communication side. All right, Team USA. Let's get patriotic. This is fun because this is going to be a very interesting team that Team USA is going to put together for FIBA, World Cup, this upcoming summer. This is to qualify for the Olympics. So this is a big deal. But some of the names on this list, Anthony Edwards, Tyrese Halliburton, McKill Bridges, Jalen Brunson, Bobby Portis. And another name I've heard committed, guys, Austin Reeves. Pending free agent. Restricted free agent this summer. I think that's the name. A lot of people were surprised to see on this list. It'll be a 12-man roster. But listen, anytime you're Austin Reeves, you're going to a free agent year, Monk is going up a little bit when you're on this team. Oh, for sure. Just the idea of him getting invited to this just got him more money this summer. He's now included into this prestigious Team USA category. It's great for him. But I'm assuming they're going to fill out this roster with some bigger names. How dare you? I mean, how dare you? Yeah, there's some more names I think in the next few days, weeks. I would expect some more All-Star type of guys to be on this list. Yeah, I mean, I heard Jalen Brunson. I think he should be on this team. I think he should start. I think he should get that shine. But we're getting way closer to, if we don't feel the great team, we're going to lose some of these tournaments. For sure. So if we send Austin Reeves out there to start against Luca and whomever else to do this. We might not be in the Olympics. Yeah, we might miss our spot. I don't like this. I was looking at the comments on the sideline sources when they posted this yesterday. A lot of people are not happy about the fact that Bobby Portis might be representing our country. We're bringing bench players to Team USA now. That's where we're at with it now. I would just say there's some former and current All-Stars that are likely to be a part of this team as well. One name actually, playing in the finals, that they're waiting to get approval for. If he's going to commit BAM out of bio, that's a name that they have an invite out to. I think BAM is going to wait to see how this finals run goes, is my sense, before it gives Team USA a decision. You guys are just being negative. But I get it. I totally get it. We're going to take a quick break right now when we come back for Denver Nugget. Kenyan Martin joins the show. And maybe he's feeling pressure or nerves. Does it look like it? Yeah. Run it back, run it back, run it back, run it back, run it back, run it back, run it back. I'm going to crush it, hey. There's no discussion, hey. Kenyan Martin leaving crushing you if you get. That's right. Our next guest, two finals with the Nets, seven seasons with the Nuggets. It's Kenyan Martin who, by the way, welcome to the show. And secondly, you have opinions on Team USA? Yeah, I just heard that. Bobby Porter is a solid NBA player. But I just look at the past, man, and being the season's USA basketball made before. You know what I'm saying? But Bobby Porter is his plate. But I just don't, I think there's other players that can suit USA basketball a little better. I mean, if they going to throw Bobby out there, listen, if they going to throw Bobby Porter, it's in that show. I want to see KJ on that. Oh, I think you know. Pax. That's a good dad right there. That's a great dad right there. That's it. I want to get to the series, especially after last night's win for Miami. But Chandler brought to our attention this morning that you are responsible for the hardest foul he's ever felt. Is that, do you remember this? Ken, you probably don't even remember it. Hey, didn't hope you didn't take your person, Chandler. He's probably one of many. My tailbone is still bruised, man. What happened? I drove baseline, and he got, I think it was a flagrant one. And it wasn't, clearly it wasn't too bad. But yeah, I had never been put on my ass like that. Kenyan's like, I don't remember. You probably was a result of somebody else at that talking shit probably. That's probably true. All right, let's talk. That's probably what he's the result of. Miami got the big win last night. I know some people thought it would be a sweep. It's not a sweep. You feeling any nerves for Denver? Do you feel like Miami's got the upper hand now? What did last night's game do for you? First of all, I didn't expect Miami to win game one first and foremost. Let's just start there. Just coming off the tough series, seven games. Denver at home waiting, planning out to two. A determined team in Denver. I just didn't expect them to win game one. But game two, I expected adjustments like Miami did. It showed a lot. It showed a lot going up big, going up like 11, 12, whatever it was, then Denver coming back going up 15. Showed a lot of grit. It's the finals. I expect them to show up and play hard. It's the Miami heat culture. If you expected anything different from them, then you shouldn't be paying attention because they was going to bring it. It's just who they are. They was going to fight and claw and scratch. That's a good series. We all know playoffs, the series don't start until somebody wins on the road. So I guess we have a series now. Kenyan, the Nuggets hadn't lost at home until last night. You played in Denver with that altitude. What was it like for you? And how hard do you think it is to adjust to that altitude for opposing players? And how hard was it for you? That first game, it was rough. Me being a seven years, I was adjusted, you know what I'm saying? So it really didn't affect me. But when you go on the road and come back that first quarter, maybe. But yeah, that first game of a playoffs series, teams are hyped and Denver has used it to their advantage throughout the playoffs and throughout the regular season. But it's tough, man. It's tough. Everything that's on the line, your adrenaline, emotions, all that plays a factor in your breathing. So, but I think Miami was able to get a couple of days there. I think them having three days in between the games instead of two, I think was huge. Yeah, I think if it was only been a couple of days and it would still show some residual faith, but you know, they worked down in Miami. So they probably got versus climbers and all kind of stuff in the locker when we get ready. Yeah, Kenyan, there doesn't seem to be a right answer on how to defend or how to stop Jokic. How would you attack that matchup if that was who you had in this series? Same thing like KG said a few weeks ago, man. I'm just going to rough him up from the beginning, jump from the ball, from the tip. If he went the tip, he running down, I'm going to bump him, hold him, grab him, might push him down, might knock him down, I might have to take one. I'm saying, just let him know what kind of day it's going to be. But a lot of people, like he's a hell of a talent. The league hasn't seen anyone that size and skill set to date. But for me, people just let him play freely a lot and not bothering the ball and not making him do things. He's probably not as comfortable as doing, but he's proven that he's worked on his game. He's proven that he's willing to do different things in order to make, to affect the game. And I think the way Miami played the last night, they made him a score. They didn't let him have both. So I think if you give him both, then you're going to have hell. So if you, either he's a passer or a score. But for me, personally, the way I would have guarded him, first and foremost, no double team. I don't, I don't, I don't do the double team thing. Now, just bothering the ball, no, just bothering the ball, man, much as possible. He's, he exposes the ball a lot, I think. And these people, they're so afraid of files and situations and things like that. But you got to try things when you're guarding a great guy like that. You got to try things. You got to implement what you think don't work. Well, try to implement what you think go work, but he's a, he's a tall task. No pun intended. Yes. I guess the issue now is, would the refs even allow you be as physical as you would want to be in a matchup like this? Or would, how can you do that nowadays with the rule change and the suspensions and the fines and everything that comes with that now? As you know, Jell, I don't, that, that didn't, that didn't register in my approach. Fines, suspensions and flagrants didn't, that didn't register in my approach, man. But the way I see them guarding, letting them play now in the playoffs. Oh, I could do that and keep it where it is. You know what I'm saying? Cause they letting them play physical in the post. They letting them bump them, rough them up and do certain things. Even when Jimmy is gardening, they letting Jimmy get away with certain things. So smaller guys typically gets away with certain things when they're guarding a great guy. You just can't make it over the top and make it as obvious as, but I'm a crafty vet, man. I know tricks and ways to get y'all, ways to get y'all off the spot. I'm gonna pull a chair on him a few times. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna mix it up. I'm not gonna give him the same look. I'm gonna front him. I'm gonna three quarter him. I'm gonna meet him early. I'm gonna force him out. It's just a lot of different ways that you can affect him and not let him be comfortable. But he's a, he's a hell of a talent, man. I enjoy watching him play. Kmart, you obviously had a great run with Mello and Denver. He wears the same number as Yoki. Do you think the organization should retire to 15 for both guys? What do you think is gonna happen there? I would like for them to, but the reality of it is people are overly sensitive and people forget about the work that Mello did there. So I don't think that the organization would do that on how things ended as well, which is very unfortunate because we all know that Mello should have won Rookie. Carmelo Anthony should have won Rookie of the Year. It's just unfortunate. I don't think that will happen being that Nicola is two-time MVP, potentially gonna win him a few more before he's done on a verge of winning the championship. So we'll see. But it's unfortunate that that Mello's number won't be in the Raptors. I just don't think it happens. Who could have thought a second round draft pick would be the one? 2006, let's go back, right? Stranger things have happened. Stranger things have happened, B. Okay, look, here's the deal. You were suspended in 06 for conduct detrimental to the team. Let's go through that. What happened and how's your relationship with George Carl? Can I, can I, am I allowed to speak freely on here? Absolutely. This is your safe zone. Well, George Carl for the first few weeks. I know it's early in the morning, 7 o'clock, but hey, that's just the way I feel about George Carl. Yeah, no, I'm at no love loss at all, as you can see. Fair enough. Yeah, no, what happened was we were, I was telling everybody that I was going through me problems in Denver. I had two microfracticers at my patella repaired in Denver. And I was having a new problem for the playoffs. Came up with agreement. I was going to set out a few games to get ready for the playoffs. George started Francisco Elson in my spot. Last few games go to him before the playoffs. I'm ready to rock. I'm ready to start. He said he's going to start Francisco. He wanted to reward him. Who the fucks want to reward NBA player? Um, and so we lose game one against the Clippers. We go game two. I tell them we lost game one. Back in the starting lineup. I'm gonna start Francisco again. Now you, now you messing with me. Now you're playing with me. So we start the game. I played seven minutes in the first half, like three minutes. Yeah, maybe seven game minutes. And we was down ahead. So towards the end of the second quarter, he put Greg Buckner in for Eddie Naira. And me and Eddie play the same position. So I'm like, time going. I'm like, what is three minutes? Two minutes, a minute hit. I guess I'm not going back in. So by this time I'm seen. Like if they could have been at the old school cartoon illustration, on me with the smoke coming out my ears and my nose and my face deep red. That that would have been what they had on me on the bench in that moment. So I was the first person off the bench going to locker room. Team come in and show them how the how the coaches meet in the hallway in LA when they come in the locker room. I go right in the hallway while they're in there talking. I step in between the coaches and I let. Oh, no, no, I threatened his life and everything I played as well. Be like I told me and you luck is free. Well, choke P.J. Carlos because hadn't had that never happened. I would have beat George Carl up that day. Not choking out of P. But like no question about it. It was there with Mike in big career that day would have been P.J. Carlos will never got choking. Wow. All right. There I can see that. I can see now. George wanted the team. Suspending the team told George, you need to do it. And yeah, yeah, yeah. So he didn't of course he did. They had the word got back to yeah, that I was for the rest of the playoffs. He couldn't even put you on it. I'm out of this at that moment. He's not going to put you on. I don't know about either. Oh, no, and that moment took a whole summer for me to be able to sit down in front of him before the next and before the next season. We had to sit down and we came out. He didn't have much to say. I told him, you coach your team. You don't you don't say nothing to me about me to me. And we're going to be all right. The first time you do, I'm on your ass. So now George can say nothing to me. But he couldn't he he coached his team. He didn't have anything to say to me. And it's unfortunate that I was I wasn't able to get out of there. But they use it and they knew that they didn't have to worry about me doing my job. So I'm going to show up and play no matter what, no matter what my feelings are towards teammates, coaching staff, management, no matter what, I'm going to show up and do my job. And and they knew that. So that was the that was the thing. But yeah, I don't like George Carl to this day. And like, we need a t-shirt. Yeah, right. I'm glad I asked. Sorry, Shoms. I didn't mean to take over your question. Go ahead. Oh, no, no, no. Everybody knew it. And then the chance I get to put George on the burner on the grill and put his ass on the grill every single time. I was at home, minding my business with your big book. So you think that. Kenyon, you played four seasons in Jersey, two finals runs. You guys lose the Spurs, the Lakers. You guys obviously on the cusp, you, J-Kid, R-J. What do you remember most about those finals runs? And is there anything you have regret over during those two finals? Like anything that keeps you up at night? What could have went differently for you guys to win in either of those years? Oh, the first year went have a chance. I ain't no regrets about that. So we ran up to that buzzlaw, Shaq and Kobe. So that was that was first young team, first time on that stage. They had been there. Yeah, we just was trying to make it competitive, to be honest. Then we got up to lost the first two and lost game three at home. It was it was a matter of not getting swept and that didn't work. The second year of San Antonio, we split the first two games. This one of the series was 2-3-2, I believe. We split the first two in San Antonio and they came and got two on our home floor. We could have got, one of those games is probably the biggest regret. And if you go look at the owner of You Notice, I don't know if people really paid attention to it, but I was three for 23 and game six of the five. Mm-mm. Ooh, that's not good. And I think I might have made my first two shots of the game. Oh, that's a long night. Oh, it's a horrible night. Listen, but I don't make excuses, man. I had to. Well, it's years later than I could. I was sick before the game. I didn't make excuses. I went out there and played my ass off. I gave them all I could, but they got the thing wouldn't go in. And the fact that I got 23 shots up is the most impressive part. Because they kept passing me the ball, man. I would have been like, listen, dude, sorry, when the finals, man, finals, man. I can't keep throwing this thing to you, man. I understand who you are. I understand what you mean to us, but hey, we got to find a different way now. Yeah, Kmart, you mentioned that bustle of Shaq and Kobe. I personally think 0-1, 0-2 Shaq is the most dominant player of all time. What was that like? What was that like, battling that monster? Impossible, impossible, impossible. It was, it was the you going up to the school and playing basketball with your kids, kind of the situation, all right. And I'm pretty sure y'all seen this picture that's floating out there. Well, he's dunking the ball in all five of us. Yeah, he's dunking the ball. It's in the frame. How you get all five teammates in one frame of one person? It's impressive. And Aaron Williams holding on his jersey. I'm thinking he going to cock the ball and I'm trying to swipe from behind. He got J.K. over here. He got, it's just, yeah, yeah. And that picture was, it was how the series went. Like that picture told the whole story. You mentioned your son earlier, K.J. Junior Martin Jr. He's got a good thing going over there with the Rockets. He continues to grow. What does he do better than you in your career? Does he do anything better than you thus far? No, shoot it, handle it. He deals with people better. Yeah, no, he's taken a lot, man, from my time and he's listened and he's applied it, man. He shoots the ball better. I tell people all the time, overall K.J. is a better basketball player than I am. He has to be, because he has to be. And you passed that jumping down and you passed that jumping down, luckily for him. He jumped out the gym like you. Oh yeah, any competitive man, he's competitive as they come. He has a high basketball IQ. But his best attribute is K.J. listens. Like he listens and he listens and he processes and he's been that way since he's been in high school, man. So all the gifts all y'all see, the dunk in the blocks, the growth is predicated. That is what it is, but his ability to listen to me and listen to people that's gonna help him. I praise him all the time about just that aspect of that's so hard to get these days for a guy to buy into what you're saying. Yeah, I just, it's one of those situations where I'm proud to be his dad in that regard, but I love watching him play basketball, man. He competes at the highest level each and every time he steps on the floor. You don't have to worry about if K.J. is gonna show up and do his job. Kenyan, I mean, playing time was definitely something that K.J. has had to go and earn this year. He has a breakout year. Are you happy, encouraged of the direction of the Rockets right now? Do you think that you made Uduca hire was a good new step for them? I do, I do. I like M.A.'s background for one. Coaching tree, coaching plan, playing for pop, coaching under pop. I think that goes a long way, man. And within, just look at the history of assistants that's left pop. So how can I not be encouraged by that? And who K.J. is as a basketball player? I think M.A. will appreciate. I don't think people are before appreciated what K.J. did and how K.J. approached the game. And I think K.J. fits what M.A. is gonna try to do. Tough nose, hard nose, play the right way, go out and get it done, kind of an attitude, which I see of him. He has a serious side, which I think is gonna play a big factor in Houston. They gotta switch that roster up, obviously. Yeah, but I'm excited for K.J. and what M.A. can do for K.J. both folks. Speaking of that roster, do you have any interest in James Harden coming back to Houston to play with K.J.? Or don't like that? No, no, no. Like James, James, James has made his mark in his league. He's done what he had to do. I just don't think you're putting them in a situation where your core guys that you are depending on are 19, 20, 21, 22 years old. Because you stunt their growth and their development. If you're depending on Jalen to be this superstar that you're trying to put him in role to be, then I think it's gonna stunt Jalen's growth and Jabari and San Goon and those kids who you drafted first round high, who you feature, who you depend on. I just think James, the way he demands the ball and his style of play right now, will stunt their growth. And I don't think that's fair to them. But I don't sign the checks. I think that welcome back dinner is gonna be fun now. I'm a big fan of that. So look, K.J. lost to Mack MacLung in the slam dunk contest. At the time when MacLung was named to it, there was a lot of argument, at least amongst the four of us anyways, that a non-NBA player, what is this? How does it work? What were your thoughts on it? And now having seen it with hindsight, what do you think? It is what it is. It's all for hype and for ratings. The kid, can you get off the floor, man? He's been doing those same dunks for five years. So I'm not, I wasn't surprised. I don't, the hype of jumping on a bandwagon like he shouldn't have been there and I don't care, man. Other guys that was there could have did something different, including my son. But no, the kid did what he had to do, man. Like I don't take nothing from him. I'm not the player or the dad or the fan. Be like, oh, why is he there? He only played two NBA games. Yeah, he got fresh legs, of course. He ain't played no minutes. So he ain't gonna be able to jump all over the damn gym. I'm saying that's obvious. But he been practicing those, if you go look at his reals for over the years when he was in high school to go into Georgetown and the fifth school that he transferred to after he left Georgetown, like I don't, the kid 30, man, he's been around for a while, man. But I'm just, he did what he had to do, man, to make a name for himself. It made it tricky to get him into the dunk contest, of course, but, hey, man, do what he had to do, man. He got his check, got his trophy. Made it somewhat of more of a name for himself. So, hey. Fair enough. My hat's off to him, man. I'm putting no respect for the kid. Came on our last question. I know you obviously played in a much more physical era of the league. The power forward position actually existed in the power forward stuff. Did you feel like there's anybody in the league today that plays similar to the way you do, and do you feel like today's league is soft? Oh, dear. The answer to that first question is no. No one plays like him at all. That is just so. If anybody's close, it's June. If anybody is, it's KJ, but he does it his own way. I don't think the league is soft. I think it's soft players. Well, that's worse. What? Yeah, I just think it's soft players. It's just guys don't play through injury, guys don't play through plays, guys don't. It's just no resistance at time for the opposition. And that's, you get hit, you lay on the ground and nothing's wrong with you. I hate that. That's all those show signs of weakness and softness to me. Like, when I play, you never want to give someone the thought that they had an advantage on you. And you laying on the ground for two minutes gives me the thought that I have an advantage over. No matter how you got down, or if you, whatever happens, my thought is that you didn't get hit that hard for one. And you soft as newborn baby boo-boo. And there it is. There, Kenyan, always a pleasure to catch up, never disappointing, provided us with many laughs and some open mouth moments. Appreciate it. Always a pleasure. Thank you sir. We'll take quick break, we'll be back to wrap things up. Get in on the NBA finals action. Great from the first tip with Fandle. Right now, new customers can get a no sweat first bet up to $2,500. That's 2,500 bucks back in bonus bets. If your first bet doesn't win, there's no better place to bet all the playoff action than America's number one sports book. So download the app, bet on the NBA finals today. Fandle, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Fit or break? Oh yeah, you know what? Bruce Brown is probably over the course of the regular season, became one of my faves. And these are the reasons why this is from game one, I believe, this is his thing. I like this. He's a cowboy. I feel like this isn't a show, this is actually how he dresses. That's him. Some good car heart. I love a good car heart best. I love a good car heart. Stays warm. Is that a best though? That's a best. They say don't trust people with Vesembo. Wait, who's Vey? And what's that? That's a phrase that says that. That's a saying? I didn't know that. I don't know where I heard about it. Don't trust people with cowards. Ooh, Michael Porter. Like, Yelkets rubbed off on him a little bit. That's something that Chandler would definitely love to play all day. I like this, I like the fade. I do not hate it. I don't like sunglasses inside. I just, I don't. Why do people do a sunglasses? You're a Hollywood type. Don't you feel douchey if you wear sunglasses? Yeah, it is a very douchey move. Okay. I just, I don't get it. I don't like it. Some sunglasses. Unless you're old, right? If you're like Jack Nicholson, you get a pass. Sure. Sometimes you find. That's it. Or Stevie Wonder. Yeah. Even though there are theories. I like this. I like the tucked in look, too. I like it. It's like a rope belt. Matching shoes. It's shoestring belts. I like the jeans. I like the shoes. I thought it was like a sweater tied around the waist at first, but you're right. That is just like a string belt. It looks like you, Chandler, except for he tried. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, we gotta put Chandlers today, Alfie. Ooh. I like this. I like this. I like it. I hate it. I hate this. I hate sunglasses again. I like it. Oh, it's the shades you don't like. Okay. It's purple. Oh, yeah. That's a lot of purple. Purple. When did you wear this? After game one? After they beat the lake? This is game two. No, this is game two. I always think when these guys wear these ridiculous outfits and they lose, they have to walk out wearing this. They have to put that back on later. I think that every single time when I thought that last night, I was like, are you better? Oh, you didn't. And you didn't. I like it. Guys, Kenyan Martin gave us enough for a lifetime. Yeah, that's too good. Next time somebody says, may I speak freely? Imagine if he can. We have to say no. Say yes. Oh, my bad. Okay, that's good to hear. We'll be back here bright and early tomorrow morning from the West Coast. Chandler Pants, yes? Never. Nope. Okay, see you tomorrow. They run it back, y'all, y'all.