 The suburbs of Brea and Morning Saad are built on a natural ridge that overlooks the home of the sharks, the Mozambique Stadium, Durban Country Club. It's just got an incredible outlook elevated over the city. Living in Morning Saad makes so much sense to us because everything is so central. Anything that we choose to do is a couple kilometers away or a couple hundred meters away. Restaurants, coffee shops, it's all here on our doorstep. We've got great schools the girls schools just close by our Morristela and Durban Girls College and then fantastic boys schools, Durban Preparatory High School DPHS, one of the top primary schools in the country and then Clifton which now goes all the way to high school. It's so convenient to be in this area where everything is close by. Some of our closest friends stay just across the Amgeni River in Durban North. Durban North is very family orientated with some great schools, some excellent restaurants and some small commercial centres. The promenade along Durban's beachfront also known as the Golden Mile got an incredible facelift for the 2010 World Cup and today is used by all of Durban's population. We as a family love the Durban Beachfront. If we're not on the water you'll find us on our bicycles along the promenade. Being a World Cattle Board Champion I've travelled to some of the most amazing beaches around the world but nothing comes close to what we have here in Durban. Durban has great weather and great conditions all year round for surfing and for training and just being in the ocean and that's why it's known as the warmest place to be. We've lived here our whole lives and there's no place we'd rather be and this is our neighbourhood. Welcome to your next home. This is a brilliant home for an independent single lady such as yourself. Oh, Mrs. That's nice and where is Mr? He'll be joining us later. Okay, let me show you around. This place is sporting all the best custom finishes and the tiles are important. Magnificent. Let me show you some more. This is the perfect room if you're looking to expand the family for you know what I mean. I mean it's perfect as a kid's room or a more playroom. Did you say playroom? Yeah, playroom. I've been very bad. Mr. Pillett, so glad you could join us. Oh, sorry I was a little tied up. Oh, I see. Do you guys have a room for one more? And welcome to episode 46 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Uzaman Donga, Kumalo. It's a Monday and I know for many of you it's probably a long weekend because tomorrow, of course, it is youth day. We'll be commemorating the 1976 Soweto Uprising. But of course, you're still tuned in right here on the Private Property Podcast. And this evening's show is one for the books. Not only are we going to be looking at the Private Property Consumer Sentiment and you'll hear a little bit about what that is. I'm sure many of you probably received, whether it was SMSs or emails from us, really wanting to ask about some of your views and sentiments when it comes to your property journey. I will be unpacking some of the data that we came up with, but we're also giving away that 100,000 rand price. Yes, you heard correctly, 100,000 rand. So somebody at the end of the show is going to walk away 100,000 rands richer. I always say I'm always envious of the people that will give 1,000 rands to on Fridays. I'm even more envious of the person who's going to win. We'll hear more about that competition and the winner, of course, later on on the show. But without any more delay, let's get to tonight's evening, tonight's show, rather. And to this evening, I'm joined by Tessa Dunes, who is the Director of Tessoro Consulting. Tessa, thank you so much for joining us. Hi, thank you for having me. Good to be on Private Property Spotlight. So I think, you know, for some of the viewers at home who probably don't even know about this consumer sentiment survey that we started doing a couple of weeks ago, perhaps tell us a little bit more about what exactly it is and why it was important certainly for companies such as Private Property to do a survey of this nature. Sure. So Private Property was looking around in terms of the lockdown. And of course, with coronavirus and the lockdown has come many changes to many industries, to people's lives, to families. And Private Property decided to hear what people who are players within the property space are experiencing, what they feel, because obviously thinking about the future, you need to understand where people are at now. And rather than just sitting in the boardroom and talking amongst, you know, the executives and talking amongst the team, you want to hear from the people who are most affected, like people who are buying, people in the process of selling, people who are landlords. We know there are a lot of issues around, questions around evictions and people being able to afford their rent and then of course tenants. And those are the four categories of people that made up the almost 6,000 people who responded to the survey. There was a litmus test, a test into how people were responding to and being affected by COVID-19, what it meant for their prospects in the future in the property market, what it meant for their sense of certainty or uncertainty about the world and what the future holds for them. And most importantly, we are now in the phase where we want to take that information and bring it to the fore and take the insights that we get from the consumers, from the people who are players in this property space and say, how does it inform the future of the sector? So it's clear that, you know, as we've highlighted, we had certainly nearly 6,000 respondents and it covered sellers, buyers, renters and landlords. Perhaps let's now look at some of the insights that come from the survey that was conducted. For example, what were some of the questions that were asked of the respondents and then let's just unpack some of what actually came out and some of the interesting things that the different, you know, people, whether they're sellers or landlords and tenants, actually had to say around how certainly COVID is affecting their property journey. Yeah, so for sellers and buyers, there was a really interesting dynamic where you saw that everybody in this space, actually whether sellers, buyers, tenants or landlords are all having to manage this crisis and they're managing the crisis differently with different constraints and different things on their minds. And so for sellers, sellers are really looking at managing a lot of uncertainty. A lot of people were already in the process of starting their selling journey and started to put their properties on the market and were finding that either the properties were still being viewed or there was a drastic reduction in the viewing of their properties. And so there's definitely a need there to start managing that uncertainty for people. How are we going to ensure that even in a time like this, they are able to reach their aspirations? Because another thing that they're managing is that a lot of people are either looking to downsize, we know that there's an economic turn and people are thinking about how much money they have to afford the places that they're in. Also people needing to relocate. And one of the things that came out of the survey was people who were thinking about relocating abroad, but also even within the country. And so that's another point of uncertainty for people is that they're not sure how they're going to be able to move, where in the world they'll be able to move to if they can. And so you find that people like sellers were really uncertain in the market. But the flip side of that was buyers. And the beauty about buyers in this survey was that buyers were young. The majority of a large part of the survey was younger people under the age of 35 with about 40% of people. And then a group of people were not only young and vibrant and single, which I think is a really interesting thing in itself. But they were also really excited about this moment. They were thinking about what opportunities they are. The interest rates have gone down. So it's made buyers more open to the idea of buying. So people who may not have been buying before COVID-19 are certainly thinking about it now in different ways. And I think that that excitement that you see from buyers is tempering off and can be used to temper off the anxiety of sellers. And if the two find each other. So for instance, there's a discrepancy between sellers selling their properties at over a million rand, but buyers being more comfortable in the range of about 750 to a million. So it's just about meeting and matching between those two categories. And we might find happy mediums that can allay the fears that sellers have. So the beauty of the survey is it really gives us an opportunity to be able to say to sellers, we know you're anxious, but they are actually buyers who may be more interested than you think. And there are ways to find each other. The same is true for landlords and tenants. And there's a dynamic going on there where landlords are obviously feeling like there's a lot of pressure on them. But what they don't realize, and they haven't heard from their tenants, that tenants feel like they're at the greatest risk. They're really managing a really huge risk because for tenants, they don't have the property itself as an asset that they can start to use. So they face a financial crisis on the one hand and they face a crisis of homelessness essentially. And so there's a level of empathy that's needed in the seller relationship and the landlord and tenant relationship that of course, just between one landlord in a tenant may be difficult to negotiate. But when you start seeing the bigger picture, it can bring a lot of resolution. And I think the overall picture is one that there needs to be collaboration. For one person to win in the space, another person is going to have to win as well. There's going to need to be more collaboration as opposed to competition to get through this very difficult time crisis. And you notice that this is actually something that's been echoed certainly throughout a lot of the episodes that we've had right here on the private property podcast. This idea of we're all essentially going through this crisis. It's in many ways, it's been an equalizer. There's nobody who's not experiencing the crisis at whatever level, whether your job is affected or income is affected. Or if you're a landlord, the rental that you're going to be receiving is affected. And certainly as tenants, as landlords, as buyers or sellers, but certainly in the tenant-landlord relationship, it becomes important for us to be proactive in having a conversation with our tenants or initiating a conversation with your landlord. And sometimes even before you're actually affected by the effects of COVID, perhaps there hasn't been any retrenchments where you're particularly working. But saying, listen, this is where I'm at now in the event where perhaps in the next month or two, there are retrenchments, I'd like us to be able to have a conversation. But for now, work is still fine. And we don't know what's going to happen. Because certainly when we started this lockdown, and it was actually the very first episode that we did with Gilles Spirling, as well as Uze Kimieza, was around how do tenants and landlords begin to have that conversation? What are some of the things we need to be thinking about? And of course, when we started the podcast, we thought we're only in this lockdown for 21 days. We're now over 80 days in, and we've slowly seen certainly the economic effects of the lockdown, and not just on ordinary consumers, but also on tenants and landlords. So the importance of both parties coming onto the table and finding a workable solution, even when you're not currently affected, we don't know what's going to happen in two months' time. One of the parties might lose their jobs and might not afford to perhaps make the full rentals. So even getting into those kind of agreements becomes so important. Something that you mentioned, Tessa, that I want us to speak a little bit about is how there was such a high number of young respondents. You mentioned, I think, nearly 40% were people under the age of 35. So it's a little bit about some of the insights of the youth population. And certainly on the show, we've been highlighting for youth men certain different ways that young people are perceiving property and also just profiling young people in real estate and our sentiments around property and our property journey. So tomorrow, of course, we are even celebrating this month. So it would be interesting to see what are young people's sentiments, whether you are a buyer or a seller or a landlord or a tenant as a young person. How exactly are we managing that property journey? Yeah, I think what was interesting is that often when we think about younger people, we think about two things, especially as they're entering the property market. We think about, young couples. And there's a lot of emphasis on young couples. But we saw that there were large percentages of the young people who were single, who were interested in buying. And not just in rental but in buying particularly. And I think that's an interesting move that we're reconceptualizing who the buyer is and what the buyer's need is by seeing that many of these young people are coming in and their first time buyers, that was the big trend amongst young people, is that many of them are first time buyers. And so they haven't moved to the point where they're buying for investment yet. So if we think about the medium to long term, is that if we manage in this moment of crisis to take some of the opportunities, the opportunities in the investment space, the opportunities that the interest rate brings in, the opportunities even in people's willingness to negotiate in this time, which will be greater, what you're doing is you're opening the door to a whole brand new cohort of owners who've never been in the space before, who can transform into landlords, who can transform into people who are buying for investment in the medium to long term, which I think is a really, really great thing. I think what's also a good thing about this group of people is that you're starting to see more of them also in the category around landlords. And so I think it's an important thing to harness to say to ourselves, how do we transform young people's perspective around property? How do we make sure that they're not just thinking about it for the short term? I think one of the things that didn't come through as strongly because we didn't have as many current renters in the space is how young people who are renters, for instance, who are now displaced. So we know that a lot of students have now gone home as opposed to being on campus. And of course that would be that would be influencing the tenant space and the landlord space significantly. So they wouldn't be current tenants necessarily. So we need to understand more about that group of young people particularly. Because one of the things that we want to look at as we go through this property perspectives as we're calling the campaign, bringing the perspectives of different people together from the property sector through private properties survey, is that we want to see how do we manage young people and say to them, okay, renting is a good option, but there are other options that you can pursue. Do young people see themselves as moving from being renters to being buyers? What effect does that have on the opportunities and the innovations that can come into the space? Is it time for South Africa to really put its head down and look at the rent to buy model so that we can convert more renters into buyers? Is it time for us to think and rethink the way in which renting subsidies are happening so that you can have more people who can access rental at affordable rates without it being such a burden on landlords? So I think that's an area that we need to see more of and understand more about is how you get young people in the tenant space that are able to stay in the property sector and don't have to kind of segue out for a while and can move from being gradually, from being renters, perhaps into being owners. So we're going to go for a quick break. I actually want us to come back from the break to talk a little bit about property perspectives. You certainly highlighted the different ways that you could potentially be helpful in understanding insights, for example, of young people and perspectives from young people, but I'd like to give our viewers a better sense of what property perspective is and also what they can certainly what they can look forward to in the coming weeks as that campaign also rolls out to fair home. Do share any of your comments and questions around this particular sentiment. Perhaps you participated in the survey. How did you find participating in the survey? We certainly want to hear from you. We've certainly been sharing certain views around whether it's tenants, sellers, landlord and tenants. Have you had any issues with your landlord or your tenant? How are you slowly trying to mitigate the crisis that we're all collectively finding ourselves in? Have you had that conversation? Are you struggling to have it? Have you been watching certainly a lot of the episodes that we've had right here on the private property podcast where we've given tips and tools in terms of how you can approach that conversation, not just with your tenant, but also the conversation with your bank in the event where you are unable to make your bond payments. We want to hear from you, so do send those comments and questions right here below. We're going to go for a quick break and when we come back, we'll be looking further into property perspectives with Uttasadubes. And of course, we're also going to be giving away that 100,000 rand price. You do not want to miss that one. At the end of tonight's show, somebody's walking away 100,000 rands richer. I wish it was me. Unfortunately, I couldn't enter that competition, but you'll be able to find out who's going to be the ultimate winner just after this. Welcome to your next home. This is a brilliant home for an independent single lady such as yourself. Oh, Mrs. That's nice. And where is Mr? He'll be joining us later. Okay. Let me show you around. This place is sporting all the best custom finishes and the tiles are important. Magnificent. Let me show you some more. This is the perfect room if you're looking to expand the family for, you know what I mean. I mean, it's perfect as a kid's room or a more playroom. Did you say playroom? Yeah, playroom. I've been very bad. Mr. Pillay, so glad you could join us. Oh, sorry. I was a little tired up. Oh, I see, I see. Do you guys have a room for one more? Welcome back to episode 46 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Uzamantungwa Kumalo, this evening. I'm joined by Tessa Dooms, who's the director of Tessaro Consulting. We're looking at the Private Property Consumer Sentiment Survey that was conducted during COVID and it really is getting a sentiment from buyers, sellers, renters and landlords. So it really is looking at the different consumers who are affected by the COVID pandemic and getting a sense of how they feel around, you know, certainly their property journey and their property sentiments since the COVID has essentially affected our lives. Now, Tessa, before we even talk about, you know, property perspectives that you've already touched on, perhaps, explore why is it even important to get a sentiment like this, especially during COVID? I mean, I've certainly had a look at some of the data that's come out and I can see how even doing this on a quarterly basis becomes such a useful tool. Suppose, for example, certainly for me, as a landlord, I find it's a useful tool to understand what tenant sentiment is, whether it's setting a price and even understand perhaps what are some of the things that could be important to them and that could be during now in terms of this time of crisis, but also post COVID because I think a lot of us are really trying to see what post COVID world looks like or if that's even realistic at this point, but really just trying to make sense of how does data of this nature help you as a tenant, as a landlord, as a buyer or as a seller? Yeah, so I think the property space is an interesting one because it's often either one where you have a very touch and go relationship with the sector. You come in, you want to be a buyer or you want to be a seller, you come, you touch, you go, or even if you're a tenant and a landlord, often it's a very mediated relationship. There are agents in between. There are all sorts of kind of structural things and it can feel like a very dislocated experience from the rest of society. It can feel like an isolating experience almost trying to manage this feeling like it's only you who is going through these particular sets of things. So I think the first thing that it does is it gives everybody in this space the ability to see that they are not alone and that their issues are not specific to themselves and get to kind of calibrate that across society. But more importantly, especially for the people that we did have in the survey on the buyers, the tenants, the landlords, they get to see the perspective from the other side of the aisle. And I think that's a really important thing to do is that you know you get out of the kind of cocoon of your relationship with your buyer, your seller, your tenant, your agent, and you get to kind of take a step back and get some perspective. And that's why we're talking about property perspectives because we believe it's important that we see each other's point of view. The property sector is an ecosystem and we often don't realize what the full ecosystem looks like and how the full ecosystem engages. And I think the more transparency we have, the more different voices we have that come in and engage and not just at their point of engagement, but throughout the life cycle. I want to be able to say I am part of the property market throughout my life, especially if I'm a tenant and I'm perpetually going to be a tenant for a while. I'm part of that ecosystem. And so understanding it better and understanding people's views and perspectives and really making it less murky. I think especially for young people, this space is very murky. It's not as easy to understand as your interactions at the grocery store, at the nail salon. This is a very murky and complex business. And I think it's good to kind of get perspectives that help illuminate it. But in the longer term, there's really a benefit in terms of other players. So we have partners, so people like banks, people like investors, people like developers. They also get to benefit from this information in terms of their own industries. And then you also have policymakers. And I think policymakers are really important in this time, because we know how government is working with regulations, opening sectors, closing sectors, thinking about the future of the country's economy. And I think having insights into the property sector from such a diverse view will really help with policymakers as well. So it opens up perspectives for everyone. And I certainly do agree with you in that in many ways the property is such an intimidating thing for people. I think even those who, for example, choose to be active investors, and perhaps you've got your first rental property and you're now about to buy your second one, even when you've already bought the first two or three properties, there's still a certain level of being intimidated around your journey or finding out how you can get the best deals from the bank, how you can renegotiate the bonds that you already have. So there really is that sense of it's not here, even though for many of us, it's already affecting us in our everyday lives, whether you're a tenant or you've already just bought your primary residence. And more often than not, we're not confident enough to even approach, for example, institutions that we deal with, whether it be the bank or perhaps even the attorneys that are transferring their property, we don't even know that you can negotiate certain things. We kind of take it as it comes. So understanding that the different players at different places sometimes are also just themselves a bit intimidated, certainly from the consumer side, and that perhaps it's only those who are the ones who provide a service that aren't as intimidated because it's their everyday job. So it becomes so important for us to be able to certainly help consumers at different stages of their property journey and empower them as much as possible and give them the right tools to navigate their journeys, whether as tenants or you're a seller or a buyer or a landlord, because it can be quite intimidating. It is already so much that you always need to know. And more often than not, you probably started because you thought property is an interesting asset class and have already got access to that particular bond. Let me go ahead, what's the worst that could happen? But then you realize that perhaps it's slightly difficult for you to get some of the information that you might want. So in terms of the survey, are there any interesting or surprising things that came out from the survey? Yeah, so like I was saying with sellers, the kind of precarious space that we're in with sellers is that things like the regulations, like COVID-19, like the lockdown has an unknown territory. And so it's not surprising that they were uncertain, but certainly the level of uncertainty was pretty high for sellers. And I think that that's an area that needs to be looked at. And how do you actually craft out seller journeys? How do you start to make those journeys something that people can feel? There's a greater sense of certainty now, because I can see there are different pathways and there are different ways that I can journey my way through these kinds of things. And then of course, the correlation between the tenants and the buyers and how different their experiences were, how much risk and how much uncertainty and the tenants were just in a really, really hard position. The buyers were very, very hopeful. And I think that that's an interesting thing to think about is who are those buyers in terms of their income brackets? And is it that that makes them more able to be in the space versus the precarious nature that tenants have? So we need to start saying that those people's two categories shouldn't be that far apart in terms of their ability to participate. But we need to start seeing ways that being a tenant doesn't become something that is so precarious, that once you hit with some level of uncertainty, it could change your whole life and you could withdraw from it. Because I think the one thing that becomes very clear is the ripple effect. And that's why the word ecosystem is so important, is that if you have the precariousness of tenants in a time of crisis, it has an impact on the landlords. Those landlords can easily become sellers and they sit with that uncertainty in their minds. And if you don't have, like we do in this case, very fortunately, a group of buyers that are ready and available, you could have really disastrous effects. So I think that it's important to take care of all of the players in the space. I think that was one of the things that stood out really quite sharply is the need for a cooperation, a collaboration across the space, because you cannot let any one of the players down in the ecosystem. Tessa, we're going to leave it there. But before I let you go this evening, how do then people get a hold of this report? Perhaps they want to, certainly, let's say you're a landlord, you want to get a sense of what tenant sentiment is, or you're a seller, you want to get a sense of what buyers are thinking out there. How do our viewers at home get a hold of some of the insights from the survey? So Properties Perspectives is going to be the campaign that will run and launch out this survey. So the report will be available on private properties website. But what we'll also be doing is we'll be releasing different podcasts, infographics, webinars, some videos that we have planned so that we can have different discussions that arise from here. So the discussion is about renting versus buying. The discussion about the risk profiles of the different groups of people. A discussion, we're going to do a policy brief where we're going to talk about some of the policy implications that this has so that we can look at the future. And then most importantly, what does the future look like? What does this tell us about the future? So we'll be over the next two to three weeks. We encourage people to look out for our content pieces that will be coming out that will lift some of the issues and hopefully spark more conversation. Because I think Properties Perspectives is about saying everybody's voice, whether you're currently engaged in the sector or not matters. Because Properties is going to be with us long after COVID-19 is gone. And that is so true. So to viewers at home, of course, you go to www.privateproperty.co.z and you'll get the latest details on the consumer survey index. And I think one of the things that you certainly want to look out for is the insights that Tessa has highlighted and the different ways that Properties Perspectives will roll out in the coming weeks. Tessa, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you for having me. And that is Tessa Dume, she's the director of Tessaro Consulting. And that brings us, of course, to the end of our show. Well, well, not quite. Of course, we've got that 100,000 rand giveaway. I've never been this excited. You know how excited I get every time I give away a thousand rands. And I always low key want to be friends with whoever wins the money. But now it's 100,000 rands. The states are that much higher. You do not want to miss this giveaway. After the break, I'm going to be joined by Tracy Miller, who is the head of marketing and private property. He'll tell us all about the competition and we give away that 100,000 rand price. You do not want to miss this one. Welcome to your next home. This is the perfect room if you're looking to expand the family. It's perfect as a kid's room or a playroom. Did you say playroom? Yeah, playroom. Something very bad. You know what? Let me give you a moment. I'm going to feed the package. Come on, you go. Okay. Welcome back to episode 46 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Uzaman Donga Komalo. You can tell I'm pretty excited. Giving away so much money is exciting. I can't believe I'm this excited to give away money. I mean, it's one thing to get that kind of money and be this excited, but I'm actually genuinely excited forever is going to win this amount. But before we give away the money, I'm joined by Tracy Miller, who is the head of marketing and private property. He's going to tell us a little bit about this competition. Sure, there's some viewers who probably don't know what this is, how did it come about, and they just want to know because they certainly want to be able to enter the next time we do this one. Tracy, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you, Zama, and thank you so much for having me. I am literally shaking with excitement. You know, we turned 21 last year and we felt it was time for a change. So on the 17th of March, we took a leap of faith and we went green. And we launched this Your Space, Your Rules campaign because it was an opportunity for us to take our audiences on a journey with us and help them or ask them to reinterpret what their space means and what having the opportunity to reimagine and reignite that space. So we're very, very excited. We had over 40,000 entries into the competition and more than 96,000 visitors to our rebrand page. I think we did a really good job of explaining how the new logo fits together and how it all really is a personification of our new purpose. So I know everyone's not here to listen to me. You're here to see the draw. So without further ado, I'm going to hand over to the draw and then let's, yeah, best of luck, guys. So what's going to happen now? Thank you very much, Tracy. So we're at least not clear about how this competition came about. Viewers of Hope obviously shared how they reimagined their spaces and essentially stood a chance to win that $100,000 prize. We're going to do a live draw and call the winner. We really do hope that they're able to pick up. And of course, before we even announce the winner, we do have an independent auditor to make sure that all our dots are crossed and what the T's are crossed, the I's are dotted, and we make sure that they're wiped out all the right moves. See, this is how excited I am. Even getting tongue twisted. And of course, our independent auditor is Brendan Husfield. Good evening, Brendan. Thank you so much for joining us. Hi, guys. Pleasure to join. I'm excited, just as excited as all you guys' hands are shaking. Good luck to all the participants and wish you luck. So Brendan is just going to make sure that, and we'll talk a little bit about the role that Brendan did in ensuring that we don't give it to any of our friends and family because I'm sure many of us would want a little slice of that cake, but that's not what we're doing. So Tracy is going to call, is going to be a live draw right now before Tracy calls the person and it's now up on your screen. And let's start with the picker and see who the lucky winner is going to be. Literally, Zama right now, my heart is beating so fast. I can't actually imagine what you must be feeling as well. This is amazing. I mean, listen, Tracy, I would love to get a hundred thousand dollars. It would be a big thing. But let's see who's going to be the lucky person who's going to win this one. The picker I can see is already, it's already starting and I think how many names Tracy, maybe tell our viewers how many names are essentially in this draw because I want people to know that we didn't just take any random, how many names are actually in this draw? More than 40,000 names is literally going through this random picker. I think we have a name. And we do have a name and the name is Ruben Fan Stardom. I think the font is slightly small but it's Ruben Fan Stardom. And we hope Ruben, oh there's the winner. So the winner is Tozaman Tintili. That is the winner and the draw was done just a few seconds ago. So Tozaman Tintili, I hope you're ready. Tracy is just about to call you in the next few seconds. Tracy, how do you think you're going to make that big call and give away a hundred thousand rounds? This is the winner. Brendan, as Tracy is making that call, can you just take us through what the T's and C's were? Just so viewers at home know that we didn't give this to any of our friends and family. What were the T's and C's for this competition? Hi guys. I'd just like to confirm everyone did stand equal chance of winning this. We had our set list of all the participants, everyone that's joined. The system is independent of Soya Ma. So this is the winner. I'm just confirming on Ma's side, the name and number that you can continue. Sorry about that. No, that's fine. I think more than anything, this is one of those things. Hey, you know, a hundred thousand round is going to be quite big. I think Tracy is not ready. Tracy, are you ready? Yeah, I've got the number. I've got the number and I'm going to make the call right now. I hope Tazama is going to answer the phone. Tazama, I hope you're watching. I hope you're ready for our call. Oh my gosh, guys. This is so much. I think that's the right number. Let me double check. Okay, almost there and I'm dialing. I'm going to put it on speaker so that you can hear. Oh my gosh. It's ringing. Tazama answer the phone. I can't. A hundred thousand round call. Tazama answer the phone. Come on. Come on. I'm sure if you are a friend of Tazama. If you're a friend of Tazama and Tintini, you want to make sure they answer the call. Yeah. Okay, it's ringing. Then what do we do in a, could you tell us what we do in a situation like this? If Tazama doesn't answer the phone, what do we do? Okay, whilst you're trying again, fortunately, she still stands a chance of winning. She has seven days. She has a week to respond to this. But hopefully she does respond as soon as possible. Congrats Tazama. I really am happy for you though. This is awesome. Okay, we're still trying as you can hear. I'm going to try one last time. We hope that if you are friends with Tazama, let them know that there's just 100,000 rounds. We want to give it to them live on air. We really would appreciate it if they picked up our call. This is the one call that you probably don't want to miss. They've got seven days. So these are part of the season seas. They have seven days to respond. The team will of course also reach out to Tazama off air and try to reach them and they'll get their details in order to do the transfer. And we hope that in that seven day period that they'll be able to respond to us. I see we're struggling to reach them again. This is also how you know that this was a live draw. We didn't prep any winner to say, Hey, you might win. You might, it was at random. And we wanted to make it live at random. And whoever calls is the winner, as we said in the competition. And we do hope that whatever Tazama is, and when they do find out that they are walking away with that 100,000 prize, that they'll be able to use it whichever way that of course they want. And this was one of the things with this, with this prize money, right, Tracy, is that you can do whatever you want. If you don't have anything property related, it doesn't matter. So if you want to just, Oh, someone answered. Hold on. Wait, Zama. I think someone just answered. Brendan, are you ready? Let's try again. Come on, Tazama. I thought I heard, right? Hello. Hello. Is this Tazama? Tazama, hi. My name is Tracy. I'm phoning you from a company called Private Property. Oh, hi, Tracy. Awesome. Do you remember entering a competition? I think so. Yes, I did. Okay, dokey. Tazama, do you know what the phrase that pays is? You're already a winner. Just can you tell us what the phrase that pays is? The phrase that pays. Yeah. I don't know. It's okay. It's okay, Tazama. You are the winner by lucky draw. Congratulations. We're phoning you actually live from the podcast. Zama and I think about 10,000 other people are listening to you right now. So congratulations. I'm going to keep Tazama on the line so that we can just verify a few more details, Brendan. But yeah, thank you. Tazama, do you have anything to say? I don't have anything to say. What are you calling up for? Oh, my God. Tazama, you just won 100,000 grand for entering the competition. You entered the private property competition and you went through our brand story and then you entered your details. And by lucky draw, you are the lucky winner. Tazama, can you just believe it? Like you literally, right now, won 100,000 grand. She can't even. She doesn't believe it. Well done, well done, well done, well done, Tazama. So congratulations to our winner, Tazama. We're seeing your comments below about the phrase that pays. Brendan, explain to viewers at home why Tazama is still the winner, even though she didn't say your space, your rules. Hi, guys. Just to inform you, it was because the season C's were already set. This wasn't an instruction before. It wasn't a requirement for you to say it. So unfortunately, we couldn't implement it because some people obviously like Tazama wouldn't have known. So she is still the winner. I hope she is happy. She seems happy. So congratulations. So just to echo what Brendan there is saying is that the T's and C's were communicated when the competition was obviously launched and at no point when we, you know, published those first T's and C's, did it say that you had to say the phrase that pays when we call you. So we couldn't suddenly change the rules on the day of announcing because then, of course, we would be doing something that we said that we didn't put out in the beginning. So that's why Tazama is still the winner, even though she didn't say the phrase that pays. So we're sticking to our word, making sure that, you know, the person who wins the lucky draw as the season C's had said still remains the winner because that's something that's very important to us. You know, honesty is quite an important value to us and we didn't want to slip in a T and C that wasn't originally there in the beginning. So that is why Tazama is still the winner. I'm going to wrap this one up. Congratulations to Tazama. Tracy, any last words from you before we let go and go back to, I think those of us who didn't win, go back to our normal lives and perhaps try again the next time to win that amazing 100,000 grand prize. Yeah, no, we just wanted to say thank you to each and everyone that entered and especially congratulations to Tazama. You can hear how ecstatic she was. I'm going to give her a call just now, just to confirm a few things. And yeah, we just want to say thank you so much and we look forward to engaging you with more competitions and more opportunities like these and stay tuned to private property. We still have a long way. We still have a lot of us this year. Thank you, Tazama. Thank you so much, Tracy. And thank you to Brendan, of course, our independent auditor there from BDO South Africa. Well, folks, that's it for tonight's show. I think it was quite an exciting one, giving away 100,000 rounds. For many of us who of course didn't win, you can of course enter that competition that we're running where you tell us all about your goals, property goals, dreams and ambitions, understand the chance of winning a thousand rounds and we'll be announcing that this coming Friday right here on the private property podcast until tomorrow. Well, we're not on actually tomorrow. Tomorrow's youth day. So we're commemorating the 1976 uprisings we have. However, back on Wednesday, we will be speaking to APSA around youth and young people and property. So you simply do not want to miss that episode with APSA on Wednesday. Until then, hoping you're going to stay home and stay safe. We'll be back on Wednesday. Hi, I'm Clinton Banfield, our family and I live in Cape Town on the western seaboard. 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