 and welcome to Cooper Union. What's happening with human rights around the world? Today, we're looking at Honipah and Hawaii global diplomacy. What was very important is yesterday, of course, was the commemoration of the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian nation. We saw hundreds of people marching from royal mausoleum down through downtown Honolulu, ending at Iolani Palace in pain and honoring the life of Queen Lilio Kalani. Today, we're going to meet with an amazing activist, advocate, translator, really a renaissance man doing so many things, conservation, Oledo Hawaii, and also even designing skills. It's amazing to be able to teach all of his skills today. And what we're going to be looking at is Kanaka values for humanity's future. And we know that many people look at Honipah, look at Queen Lilio Kalani's nonviolent commitment to challenging hegemony and the empire forces that existed at that time. But what we'll also look at is King Kalakawa and what he was doing just two days later, really January 20th, but isn't commemorated as widely. Kanoa Mahalo for joining us. Mahalo Joshua. Mahalo for having me on the show. Thank you for the great things you said about me. Mahalo. Oh, absolutely. Maybe you could share, since you go deep into the language so often, what did Honipah stand for? And why was that so important to Queen Lilio Kalani? Honipah comes from an old story of Pohaku Lekia where one of the stones was said to Honipah, it says in the Mo'olelo. Honipah and Pohaku Lekia would dig himself into the ground, deeper into the ground to be steadfast. And I think from that Mo'olelo, everything that Kalakawa and all of our all of our elites, before Kalakawa's time, up until his time and Lilio's time, to be steadfast in who we are. We went to other nations and took what they had, what was working for them, how are we going to make that into something that's very Hawaiian and something that was, we can stand apart from the rest of the world, but have the same values and at the core be very true to who we are and stand on our own truth. And so that's kind of Honipah, yeah. Exactly. And what was so amazing also when Lilio went for the nonviolent approach, it was so strong. How many people signed the petitions and actually stood against? Could you maybe share a little bit about that campaign to challenge the U.S.? Yeah, there was people who were angry. People, if there's anything about Hawaiians, very passionate of what we do, yeah. And so when someone comes after the Queen, there are a lot of people that wanted to take up arms, take up arms and fight back. But the beauty of that, I think, is the compassion Lilio had for her people, knowing that if we fought back in the way that they wanted to, when they was kind of provoking us to, perhaps there wouldn't be any Hawaiians today, you know? Taking up arms against the United States is not a good, not a good way to approaching something. And you can see her compassion and when she drew aloha came from that, yeah, her ability to say, no, we're going to do this the right way, trusting that those bigger powers will come in and do what they're supposed to as diplomats and follow the rules to save her people and see no bloodshed. No one wants to see their people go through any of those things and trust in the process, you know, and have and believe that good and pono will always prevail. Yeah, I think that's one of the noble features is definitely she was committed to peace and nonviolence but also rule of law and knew that Hawaii was a member of the family of nations and looking back in history where even the United Kingdom had done a wrong and then corrected that. So it was looking to the global community and the conscience of countries to live up to their own values and morals. But of course, unfortunately, the US has failed that and has issued the apology bill. What are some steps maybe after the apology bill now that we're 29 years after that adoption of legislation that President Clinton signed into law? So yeah, it was it was signed in the apology bill. I think to me, I mean, that's not my wrong suit. But I think it brought in a consciousness to the people that we have to be awake to history. And if and if we can acknowledge our history, that's always the first step. I think from then, a lot of our people are much, I wouldn't say smarter, but we know a lot more. And so that brings us into a place where we can start making moves into the future, how we want to govern ourselves, how we want to raise our community up through acknowledgement of our of our past in our history and in ways, accept it and move on. And how how how are we going to build this time from where we are now? And yeah. Absolutely. And of course, then with the apology, it's no longer something written in some book and people trying to find the truth. The truth is out there. And so what's so important is now that we know that it was a legal overthrow and there is a continued occupation, and we go forward. It is exciting to look at how forward looking the monarchs were like Hulakawa. Two days, if we look at January 20th, that should be a day that's commemorated as well, because he became them the first head of state to circumnavigate the entire globe. And his mission was so true. And you know, when we look at his message of Hulu, Lahui and to raise the nation and to increase it, that was really the the seed for that important journey. Maybe you could share a little bit about his motto and then the journey as well. Yeah, I I really appreciate you saying that because it shows how quick our people were to respond to something. Yeah, we see a problem. Are we going to fix it? This is what we're going to do. And so his ability to go around the globe and you know, the first monarch to do so was was us trying to figure out how we're going to play in that in that arena, right? And how kind of what I spoke on before, how do we take the good things of the world, leave some of the things not so important behind, and bring them back home. As Kanako, we always say, well, what you're going to do with that Ike, how is that going to benefit you, your family and the greater community and the Lahui as a whole. And so it's beautiful him to go around into China, India, Japan and meet with all of these top level officials around the globe. And for them to see Hawaii as on the same level of them, that we have something, a small nation in the middle of the Pacific has something to contribute to the world. And I think aloha is the greatest thing that we can contribute to the world. And for him to spread that message, but mostly I think that feeling when he met with people, I think was profound. And I think we're still feeling the effects of that today, for sure. It's true. When they probably met him, you were able to see him living aloha, not just a philosophy, but actually in a practice, it definitely transformed their thoughts and understanding. And of course, as you mentioned, I mean, he went first to San Francisco from January 20 leaving Honolulu, but then to Japan. And when he's there, he's looking to build the friendship and that links between peoples of Asia Pacific, then going on to China, India, even Egypt. And then, of course, with the kings and queens of Europe. I mean, it's amazing to see his perspective and you see some of that in some of his diaries, but it was so powerful to see in 1881 going there and saying, look, we're here and we're part of that family of nation. And this is what we can share. And I think that message of aloha, but also so many other Hawaiian words that maybe people might hear that are commodified bank commercials, but have such deeper meaning that we should all know and cherish. Yeah, for sure. And so maybe there's other terms that you think that people should be aware of, that just should be part of our everyday vocabulary, especially building on that spirit of aloha and what he exemplified as he went around the world sharing. Yeah, there's there's thousands of words we should get embody every day. But I think it's not so much the amount of words, but to get deeper into a single word. And Onipa, I think, is one to be steadfast in what you know and your truth and to be versed in everything that you need to know that for someone to come up against you and they can shake your foundation, they can shake your kahua, oh, you win already, you know. And so I think now, I think Onipa is a great word that we should all try to do like kalakawa did. It's one thing to know a word like you said and know it as a philosophy of words on paper, but to embody it, to live it, and for other people to understand it when they meet you. Oh, that's powerful, you know. And so aloha and Onipa, I'm going to stick with those two for today. And to be Onipa in aloha, you know, to be steadfast in being compassionate for people, showing people care and being kind to others. Aloha just doesn't mean love, but it's all of those qualities that make people feel love, you know. Yeah, Onipa in aloha, I think that. That's good, that's good. That could be the new t-shirt design when we focus on that. Yeah. And if you could see it yesterday, you could see the aloha as people marched all the way down, but also then in the commemoration. And they also commemorated life of another amazing activist, artist, Anani K. Trask. And she had a beautiful quote said, no one knows better how to care for Hawaii, our island home than those of us who have lived here for thousands of years. And maybe that's another aspect you can share. I know you have many, you wear many hats and you have so many hats and I want to appreciate you for the Patagonia one as well. But with all those hats you wear, can you share a little bit about conservation and what it's like to work at Poo Poo Pooie and be up there? Yeah, sure. So, yeah, Anani K. Trask was a warrior and still is a warrior and her name lives on and all of her good works. And so we mahalo her for all the time and effort and sitting in her space. And if there's any word that embodied her, it was only pa'a, for sure. You couldn't tell her otherwise. And she knew who she was as a Hawaiian and as a person. And that's beautiful. Yeah, so I work at Poo Poo Pooie Watershed Preserve. I'm currently the manager out there. We take care of about 12,000 acres out on the west side of Mauna Kahala Wai, West Maui Mountains, below Poo Poo Pooie, which is the summit out there on the highest point we have on Maui. When she said that there's no one else that knows Hawaii better than us that can be translated to even to Aina. As one of the biggest preserves in Hawaii still mostly intact, I'd say over 90% intact forest. It's beautiful to see that that is all native Hawaiian plants, endemic plants sometimes. Some endemic plants found nowhere else in the entire globe, sometimes not even on any other part of Maui. But to be in a space for thousands of years, you have no other choice but to have figured out how things work. Even if you try not to. We're that connected enough, whether we believe it or not, to understand the cycles and understand that when you are in a place for that long, you get to understand the language of that place. And that goes with people, that goes with Hawaiians, that goes with any nation around the globe. We're not the only people on earth. And I always say, as Hawaiians, we're also humans. That we're part of the bigger picture. We just have a certain way of looking, of being a human in Hawaii. And so we have to take care of that here. And so we take an approach as best we can to take a Hawaiian approach to conservation. Always looking at stories Kupuna left us, whether they be written, whether they're spoken, whether they're shared to us in person, on how we move in a space. It's one thing to plant a plant. It's one thing to know when to plant it, how to plant it, what we expect that plant to be. We always say, when we're planting a koa tree, what do we want it to be? Do you want it to be a fancy watch? Want it to be hardwood flooring? We have to have that in 10. And so being in a space, it's kilo. It's the term we'll hear a lot nowadays, but to be observed and to actually take note. The way when the circle, the circle and the cycle comes around again, we'll be able to understand it, see it, and make moves on it. And so she's right. Very true. I remember I was fortunate enough in the end of the year to go up to the rain gate and love those 122 flights of stairs. Beautiful moment. But when you're there, just the silence, but you're really there with the gods. And you also realize how small we are, how insignificant, how really there's no greater purpose while we're on this planet than to take care. It's Aloha Aina. Yeah. Aloha Aina is who we are. Like I said, because we're so small, and we have such a small land base, we have to cherish it as much as we can, whatever we have left. A lot has been gone, but we have to see that it benefits us in ways too. And we can't forget that. Yeah, being up at Nakalalua, up at the rain gauge, checking for close to 100 years now, is a beautiful place to be. The silence is very loud. It's very loud, but you can't help but feel like you're in a... I always tell people that Hawaii is magic, and there's no place like it in the rest of the world. I mean, as far as I know, and to be there, you understand the complexity of why our kupuna thought the way they did, and that evolved a thought process, a worldview, and how we treat other people. It's a community. I always tell people at the same time that we're like plants, and plants are like us. We're the same. We move the same. You grow here, I grow here, we grow together. Yeah, definitely part of Indigenous cosmology around the world. It's only really that Western knowledge of thinking dominion over nature that has put us into the climate catastrophe, while so many economic globalization challenges that we face. And I've definitely traveled around the world too, and there is no place like being there on the mountaintops, and of being in many places around Hawaii. And with the pandemic, many people were always like, oh, it was the worst comment I ever heard before the pandemic. Like, oh, how do you survive in Hawaii? You know, don't you get rock fever? And I'm like, it's got to be your mind as a rock if you don't appreciate all that Hawaii has to offer because it's endless and really limitless of all the beauty and all the places you can still enjoy. And it's always amazing anytime. If you get up to Haleakala for sunrise, if you're wherever you are, there's so much natural beauty, and it does strengthen your spirit to see what matters most in life. Yeah, for sure. I always try to share people with people kind of what you're talking about. Nowadays, we feel like we're above Aina, where we feel we're above land and their environment. But really, we're not. We stand toe to toe. They can do things for us and we can do things for it. But realizing that we have to fit ourselves into the circle. We can't be in the middle of the circle. We can't be out of it. We have to jump in and just and flow with it. And once we get into the flow, we can, and I think we're getting there. I truly feel like as a global nation, we're slowly starting to get there. But there's a lot of people, right? So we got a lot of work to do. But I'll start to one one stairs to get to the Kalagore engage. First step, first step, first step. And it's down the first step. I know. And it's worse when you're coming back because it's all up. All up. But I'll never forget. Oh, my God, you said, okay, Josh, you're running with the gazelles. You can be a snail. It's okay. And, and then I'm horrible because I see all the hapu ferns and I just want to hug them all because they're all so amazing and all their evolving aspect, you know, exactly. Another beautiful moment that I remember with you was Hokulea commemorating the anniversary and really going up there and planting some more of the koa trees there. And that time with Nainoa and the setting up of the star compass. So I know it's the anniversary of Hokulea heading to Tahiti the first time. Can you maybe share a little bit about why it was so important to set those first koa hapu and why that space there at Honolua is so important? Yeah. Brief history. 1976, Hokulea took off on her first journey back down to Tahiti. And fast forward when when she had gone around the globe for three years to go around the globe, she went around, she went around took the same path, maybe not exactly the same path, followed Kulakawa. And we did it again, you know, Hawaiians, we did it again twice around the globe. This time without following the stars, the same way we did so thousands of years ago. I was gonna say now we got another t-shirt, we did it again. We did it again, you know. And so we went around the globe with the mindset of Malama Aina and what does that mean? Yeah, to take care of Aina, to take care of resources because Aina is any resource that feeds you, whether that be the soil, whether that be the water, whether that be your parents, you know, your family, friends, community, all of that is Aina. And when we get to that point, we can see that then our picture gets much bigger. And so she went around, met thousands and hundreds and thousands of people in hundreds of countries and Pomeka and I sat down one day and said, well, when she comes home, let's say message, what does that mean for us back home? And what we do in Malama Aina, and when big things happen way back in the day, coconut groves, you know, thousands of trees were planted as commemoration. And so we sat down on a napkin and said, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna plant thousand core trees. We used to plant thousand core trees, get, find the seeds, and then that turned into this Ola o Maui Nui in 2017. We had 400 Hawaiians on Honolua Bay. I told the kids, remember this, because this has happened in 100 years and it's not gonna happen in another 100 years. Remember this time. And yeah, we planted what was supposed to be a thousand core trees, turned it out to be nearly 5,000 native plants. We did have a thousand core trees, but the support from the community, Native Nursery, all other farms, giving us donating plants, and it was just to rebuild the forest. And it was a beautiful thing in, yeah, FNR, we planted a forest. It was beautiful to see, and it was, it was, that it was a commemoration that Ola Maui Nui is too real, yeah, and we have to rebuild some of these landscapes that were, that were taken away from us, you know, and how are we gonna change the mindset and there's, oh, there's nothing we can do about it. No, we have to know that there's always something we can do about it. Once we can start moving in that direction, we can attract the rain back, you know, Hawaii and Kupunawha say ha hai ka ui, ka uulaau, the rain would follow the forest, and that's what that was, to plant more trees, to bring the water down so we can catch more water and change the climate of Hawaii and try to get it back as much as we can put into, do as much as we can as as tiny, tiny little humans. Yes, tiny but very positive, powerful and passionate about the Aina, so anything's possible then. And on that day we were commemorating, I remember Nainoa getting out of the truck and he could see how big his co-ed tree had already gotten, and so, you know, just to see the changes from then until just last year and sitting those pohaku, I remember you there with the team at Kukui, what was that like to set that pohaku there, and what was that weekend like that April 30th for you? Oh that was amazing, that was more steps, I just feel like there's so much things happening there, it's just there's a movement, you know, and there's been a movement since the 70s, but it's nice to know that in our time nowadays that we never let Kupunawha down, and so that day we set three cardinal stones, we set one in the north, the west, and the east, up in Honolua, in the same place that we had that commemorative planting, and so we had crew from Hokulea come over, Mo'ukiha, and we were able to set those cardinal stones in the same way that we've been sailing for thousands of years, and Uncle Nainua was there, and some of the apprentice navigators were there, they were able to set the stones, and it was a building of another classroom, and that's what Uncle Nainua said, this is another classroom, and he saw the opportunity in Honolua because it's one of the dark spots we still have left in Hawaii, so much light and light pollution and all of those things that that's one of small place that we can still see a lot of the stars, we can look past the major ones and see all the tiny ones, but that turned into a classroom where another class, and keep expanding, and the more classrooms we have, the more learning we have, and the more educated people we have on the globe, and so another, an area to to bring old knowledge into the forefront, and now it's our turn to figure out how we're going to use that to get into the future. I remember him saying it was such a good joining of Hokulea because that connection with Uncle Archie and them talking about the understanding of the ocean of Moana Nuiake and the oceans around the world, but then also with Fuku Pui he goes, you speak with the trees, you speak with the land, and that's a language he says everyone's forgotten, but has not been lost with the work that you do on a daily basis, so I know that was one powerful moment as well while we're up there planting. Yeah, I got chicken skin when you said it, you're right, and he's right, I'm still learning the language, you know, and the more I learn the more I have a lot of gratitude for the language that thank goodness it never leaves us, you know, and the trees still speak it. Yeah, and I'll never forget too, because we're getting to the end, but just beginning hopefully we'll have many more conversations like this. I remember that next morning, after we had planted the trees and also the Fuku Haku, I remember when the Fuku Lea came around the shore that you were the one to be able to actually swim into and jump into Moana Nuiakea and swim out there, what was the rest of the daylight? Did you share that? I think you went by over on Moloka'i and share some of that experience on Hoku Lea and what that meant for you that day. That was a blessing to be invited to go on the va'a. I was actually on Hikianalia sailing alongside Hoku Lea. We sailed back to Oahu, we went around the north side, Klaupapa side of Moloka'i and getting in, it was about nine, ten o'clock at night on Oahu, but I always mahalo when I get to be on the ocean, because for me that's what Kupuna first saw when they got to Hawaii. We're used to seeing the ocean, but for them the first thing they saw was that view from on the water and watching islands come out of the sea and to see that perspective is always something I just I love to death. It was a beautiful opportunity, yeah. We mahalo you for pulling Oahu out of the ocean that day and see where we can find out where we're staying, so that's good and so much we can continue, but mahalo nui for all that you do on a daily basis with the Olala, with the language, but also with the Aina and really appreciate all that you do and look forward to continuing the conversation later.