 Alright, good morning everyone. Welcome to the Scars and the Trust each of you are doing well. Let's just begin this time with the Word of Prayer. So, leave it open, any one of us can please lead and prayer. Go ahead, say, Christopher, you'd like to read, lead and prayer please. My pastors, let us pray. Our dear Father, we bless you. This is the day you have made, we rejoice and we are glad in you. It is by your power that we are alive and it's by your mercy we see another new day. We thank you for everyone in this class and every part, wherever they are. We give you praise O Lord and we pray that this class Lord will be worthwhile and valuable. We ask and lift up our teacher that by the spirit of God he will instruct us. Lord, in the lesson for today and we pray that we'll be equipped again more and more for the work ahead that you have prepared for us. Thank you Lord for a wonderful and glorious and impactful class. We give you praise and glory in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, say. Alright, so we're coming to the end of our course, we've almost completed. So let's just quickly do a review of what we did last week. Last week we talked about the leader as a coach and how as a coach we are a few things that few responsibilities that we have is to build a stronger team, enable people to rise up to new levels, new challenges and as a leader or as a coach to begin to attract people who desire to be coached and coaches develop other people and it doesn't end there. So it's not like I develop me as a leader or a coach, we develop somebody and it ends there. They equip people to develop themselves as well. So we help them to grow and then we teach them how to mature, how to develop themselves as well. So for example, there's a young person at church and he's been regular and eventually they become a youth leader and so it doesn't end there. Okay, I've made this person become a leader but we equip them to develop themselves which eventually will help them to mentor and coach others as well. Work one-on-one, we see the Lord Jesus did that in his ministry, he did work one-on-one. Take advantage of coachable moments that we times when you can speak into those situations right when situations happen, whether good, bad, things may have gone your way, things may not have gone the right way. Use those moments to make it a teachable or a coachable moment for the other person. Inspire commitment, even as you coach people, we want them to be committed, it shouldn't be like coaching with, instead of encouraging them and uplifting them, it shouldn't bring them down but it should encourage them, inspire them to develop themselves to grow, to grow skills, to promote persistence, shape the environment that they are living in, meaning whatever that God has called them for, whether ministry, whether in the workplace, that they grow in what they are doing. And finally, very important, we talked about was don't force, control or manipulate people. None of us can force anybody to be someone they don't want to be and if we see even the Lord Jesus himself, he didn't force his disciples, you have to do this or he didn't force people, you must go ahead and you must do this or he didn't control, he didn't manipulate nothing. As a leader, he expressed himself, he let people see his life, they saw his life and they saw what he is and what he could do and who he is, they began to understand, they willingly were, they came under his leadership and so never been a place where we, yes God has given us this role of leadership and it's wonderful but with this comes the responsibilities, we are not called to control or manipulate people or try and force them to do something or be something that they don't really want to be because if we do that, later we'll realize that, hey, you know, that person may not be happy and eventually all our efforts may go in vain because we are not seeing the fruit of whatever we have done. So never control or manipulate, always be in a place where if people want to move on, they'll move on. If people want to do something else, they feel they're called to, for example, start something of their own or do something which they are passionate about, encourage them and help them to move forward. So today we'll move on to the next portion and again, I'm just going to be teaching and in between if you have any questions, any thoughts, feel free to stop me. You can unmute, ask your question, you can also put your questions on the chat and you can do our best to answer that. So let's get into the 27th section and we'll see how much we can cover. I'm guessing we should be able to cover the entire course by the end of this hour or the next hour, we can see whatever time it takes but we should be able to complete it in these two hours. So mentoring another Christian. So we've been talking about coaching, mentoring but let's look at this, mentoring another Christian. God's dealing with our second Corinthians 618. How will be a father to you and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty. Now in the Old Covenant, all of a sudden there was this, because of that separation, this whole thing of father-son relationship was lost. Why? Because, only because of self, there was a wall of separation and you go through all through the Old Covenant. You see the levitical offerings, that day of atonement where the high priest goes and pulls out the blood on this altar too and I'm sure the entire nation is, their eyes are on this one high priest and if he comes out alive, God has agreed to forgive their sins and bless them as a nation. So there was this kind of a, there was this, God continued to love but because of sin there was separation. The relationship was marred or it was, you know, it was tainted but after the cross, that relationship was restored but I love what Jesus said across, right? He said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And we are talking about, and the son Selma is talking about this divine exchange that happened on the cross, right? Where all through the Old Covenant, all through Jesus' ministry, he always said, my Father, our Father, me and my Father are one, everywhere he said that, but on the cross, because of the separation of this, because of sin, that he took up our sins, there was that separation and he said, my God, it's no longer Father for a while, but why did this separation happen so that you and I can be, can call him Father, right? And so in 2 Corinthians 6, 80, Paul is reminding the believers and he's saying, I will be a Father to you, the Old Covenant, he was God, right? He's God to them, here the relationship is restored and he's saying, I will be a Father to you and you will be my sons and daughters, right? Now, all of us, I'm sure, when you think about your parents or you think about fathers and mothers, the first thing that comes to our mind is love or care or a place of freedom, right? We don't have to hide anything from our parents, it's a place where we can just be ourselves. Let's see, when God is saying, I'm going to, this is how I'm going to deal with you, I will be a Father to you and you will be my sons and daughters, so as a son and a daughter, what can you and I do, right? We can go to the Father anytime, any moment and ask of Him, right? So, here the first point, developing people is spiritual fathering and mothering, right? So, every time we use Father, it also, it's not a gender-specific thing, it's both male and female, right? So, developing people is a spiritual fathering, meaning a spiritual place where people come under your leadership and they're like sons and daughters, right? Developing people cannot just be a program, it's not like, okay, we have mentorship program, 10 people register, now all 10 of them come and they finish the program, okay, now I have mentored 10 people, no, programs are important, we need them, but developing people is an ongoing process, right? If you look at it even in the natural, I can't say, we can't say, hey, okay, I got married, I had a child, I've done my part, no, but it's just the beginning, right? The child is born, then the child needs to be nurtured, looked after, corrected, raised up in the right way, given good food, both physically, spiritual food, and given education, everything must be done. So, it's not the end that the baby child is born, there's so much that needs to be done after that. So, even in the spiritual, there will be people who become believers, whether they are through you or to somebody else, but they may be new, just babies in Christ, none other, that's not the end, right? When we talk about mentoring, when we talk about being a spiritual father or mother, it is a constant looking after, so you continue to develop that child, and eventually, you know, in the natural, when you look at a child and they grow up, they become probably an adult, they become about 18 years old, be let go, right? Okay, he's matured enough to make his own decisions, but he's matured enough to do things that he wants to do, he's not an adult. So, even in the spiritual, right, even in terms of mentoring, there will be a time we have to let go, right? But until then, he needs to be there for them. Caring and love is the key. Remember that each individual is unique. This is very important, right? Now, for example, there are times when people may not understand things in God's word, right? Now, we may have just caught it, right? We may have just understood some, you know, deep truths in the world very easily, but there are other people who, you know, maybe in the corporate sector, they are wonderfully very intellectual, they're high up in the, and their teams, they're very good with their work, but maybe in terms of the spiritual aspects, they're taking time, right? So, remember that each individual is unique. Maybe for us, you know, we feel that, hey, depression, suicide, nothing, just pray, that spirit of infirmity or that oppression will leave in Jesus' name, just pray. But we can be casual about it, because we feel nothing will happen to us. But there are people who are going through that problem, right? For me, it was, you know, when people say, oh, I can't, you know, I always use the phone, I'm not able to control using the phone. Initially, I used to think, just switch it off and throw the phone away. But we can't do that, right? I thought to myself, hey, everyone is unique. If I had the problem, I would have done that, but I can't expect others to do the same thing. So, we're all unique in our own ways. So, you know, one thing that we must learn is to never look at, compare people with ourselves and say, hey, if I can do it, you know, you also can do that. It's there, but then we don't compare by saying, hey, you can do it because I did it. Remember that every individual is unique, whether they are male, female, children, right? Something very interesting that I got to know yesterday was, you know, my son is, he's an, the uppercase, he's only six years old. Apparently, you know, it's talking to the principal of the school and apparently it's become a compulsion that even the children, the toddlers, must have counselors now. I thought to myself, how are we going to counsel five, six-year-olds? But they are practically doing it. They should sit for the counseling session. Things are changing. Everything, you know, things around us are changing. So, we must understand people are unique, but one thing never changes. God is our Father and He would be our, always our Father and we will always be His sons and daughters, right? And finally, we cannot love only on the group scale. So, for example, you have a group of about five, six people. It's not like we love all, you know, only when all five of them are together and we overflow with love or we overflow with compassion, a very kind, you know. Even if there's two or three people in the group and some are missing, it should be the same kind of love, right? So, it's not that only if there's a group, I will love them all. And again, every individual is unique. Whatever you do, you need a blueprint. Whatever you do, you need a blueprint. You need to see the end picture before you are ready to begin, right? Whatever you do, you need a blueprint. And this is so important, right? And we talked about, I think it was a last time as we talked about principles in the ministry, principles in the workplace, always have a vision, always have a blueprint of what you want to do. See the end picture even before you're ready to begin. So, when you look at people, right? For example, you look at a person. This person is really passionate about God's work. You can see the anointing of God. You can see that, you know, God can really use him and, you know, there's this gift of the prophetic inside him. All he needs to do is to develop in this prophetic. So, let's, you know, let's just call him, let's give him opportunities, small opportunities. But the end pictures, hey, one day I want to see this person preaching and teaching the word of God, being a blessing to the body of Christ, being a blessing to the people who is around him. And so, that's the blueprint. But even as you see the end picture, work with them over stages, right? And we also talked about leadership, how we are to, you know, when we offer leadership, it should, it shouldn't be given all of a sudden, right? Let people go through stages, let people go through the smaller seasons, just being faithful in the small, eventually give them the bigger opportunities. The first thing you need in developing a person is to have a blueprint, right? Let's look at the next point, spiritual fathering, right? We use the term fathering in a gender-independent way, so it includes given mothering. First, John 2, 12 and 13, the goal in our Christian growth is to go from being little children to becoming fathers and mothers. And now, if we look at our own lives, each one of us, right? There was a time we were little children. We were just born in Christ, we had, we just knew a little bit of the word, knew a little bit about prayer. And over time, we learned, over time, we grew, right? I'm sure, you know, once we become a believer, you know, you know, this happened to me personally, right? I became a believer, I wanted to pray, I liked to pray, but I didn't know what to pray, I didn't know how to pray, right? So it was, I think for many, many months, you know, I would just open my eyes, walk around, you know, there were times I would get distracted and it was very hard, right? But over time, I, after reading the word, after hearing from leaders, talking to leaders, getting instructions, it helped me to grow in my spiritual work, right? Now, just because we are praying more in the prophetic or in the flowing gifts of the Spirit, that does not mean we are mature. Remember what Paul writes to the Corinthians? He says, hey, we are, you know, babies in Christ. Wait a minute, Paul, we are already flowing the gifts of the Spirit. We are, we have all the prophetic, we have the speaking and tongues, all of this is there. We are already, you know, we're not babies in Christ, we're grown up. Paul is saying, hey, you asked the babies because there is division, there is strife, there is hatred, there is immaturity among you. And so Paul is making them understand that spiritual growth is not only about, you know, yes, it is focused on the word, but there are also other things that are involved in spiritual growth, right? First Corinthians 4, 14 and 15, maybe one of us can please read this. First Corinthians chapter 4 was 14 and 15. Anyone of us get this to open to the scripture, please read it. First Corinthians 4 versus 14 and 15. The difference between spiritual teachers and spiritual father. Yes, can anyone please read that? I did not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children, I warn you, for though you might have 10,000 instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers for in Christ Jesus, I have begotten you through the gospel. Yeah, thank you. So we see here, Paul is writing again to the Corinthians, he's saying, I'm telling you all this not to shame you, but I'm telling you this because you may have a hundred of teachers, but I have begotten you, meaning I am your, I have given birth to you in the Lord, meaning it is through my ministry that you have come into the, you know, into Christ, you have become a believer. So I, as a spiritual father, I am, I have the responsibility to speak into your lives, to connect you. You may have a lot of teachers. Remember that Paul was itinerant, right? So he went about many places. So he planted the church, he went around. So he was not there every time, but there were other leaders, other teachers, instructors within the church. Now Paul is writing to the Corinthians. He's reminding us, see, not writing to you all of this because if we read last semester, we did Corinthians, right? We looked at how he was so upset in the first letter to the Corinthians, and he was only, you know, bringing correction to them. So he's saying here in chapter four, he's saying, I'm not writing this to bring shame on you, but as a spiritual father, I'm writing so that you change your ways. And it's my responsibility. I must correct you. I must correct what you are doing in the church. And so we see there's a difference between spiritual teacher or an instructor and a spiritual father. Look at that differences here. We have it here. A spiritual teacher teaches truths. Whether you listen to it, whether you agree to it, whether you don't agree to it, it's up to you. I'm going to teach. I'm going to teach God's truth. But a spiritual father will care for and help the individual to understand truths of God's will. Now it's not like the teacher want, but his focus is I'm going to teach. I'm going to teach and instruct. A father will go the extra mile for caring and helping the individual. And we can definitely know the difference between them. A spiritual teacher, imagine asking a question to a teacher and ask the same question again and again and again. They may say, hey, come on. I've already explained it. But a spiritual father will answer that same question again and again and again. That same kind of love and care. A spiritual teacher is usually formal interaction. A spiritual father is an informal interaction. Yes, I think somebody has raised their hand. Yes, Sri Kumar, you've raised your hand. Yeah, thank you, Pastor. Yes, go ahead. Pastor, I want to know that how you select your spiritual father and how you know that the difference between that if I want to accept somebody as a spiritual father. So how you engage or what is the criteria behind it? You cannot be a spiritual, if somebody has given you baptism and now whether I have to make him as my spiritual father or the church where I am going, that pastor, I have to make the spiritual father or somebody else. How can we come to that conclusion that he's my spiritual father? And second thing, can a person have more than one spiritual father? And that is also my question because naturally there is only one father, but in the realm of the spirit, can we have two, three fathers? So how we can able to come to that? How we can differentiate? This is my teacher and this is my spiritual father. Thank you, Pastor. Thanks. Yeah, that's a wonderful question. So Sri Kumar, I want to start off by saying at APC, other ministries may have it, but here at APC, we don't say, hey, he is my spiritual father. He is my spirit. She is my spiritual mother. We don't use that term much. Now, there's a reason, right? So if we look down even in the notes, we see that it's not necessary. So for example, I'm an unbeliever, right? Somebody comes and shares the gospel with me. I become a believer. It's not necessary that person only should be my, will be my spiritual father. Now he may share the gospel with me. I become a believer after six months, he's gone. But he's gone to another state or he's gone to another country and I'm hardly in touch with him, right? But I'm going to a church here, for example, right? There's this church I'm going to, the pastors are there, the leaders are there, they are investing in my life saying, Hey, Paul, you can do it. You know, you read this, you read this portion, you join a life group, you, and I'll, I'll, you know, you can, I'll sit with you, you have any questions, you write them down, I will sit with you, I'll help you understand. And then if I have any question, I can go to them and say, you know, the book of revelations, there's so much I don't understand anything. Can you please tell me what it means or why is Jesus talking to this? So there's a, there's a person, maybe one or two people also who are, who is really helping me. Now, what's happening? This person brought, this pastor brought me into the Lord. That's good. He brought me into the Lord. But as a, as a child, as a baby in Christ, it is these people who are equipping me, right? So to answer your question, Trigma, firstly, it's not that the person who gave you water baptism, or the person who brought you into Christ, only they can be your spiritual father mother, right? It is basically somebody who is equipping you to grow from being, you know, a child in Christ, a baby in Christ, to attaining that spiritual maturity. Now, if you look at each one of us, we are all grown in the Lord, right? We are all matured in Christ, right? Now it's not necessary that we must have a spiritual father mother. So now it's not like we have to go and search for the spiritual, who's my spiritual father? Who's my spiritual mother? We don't, we don't have to do that, right? You don't have to go searching for, oh, it's not like without a spiritual father and mother, we cannot grow in the Lord. No. What we're trying to say is, it's good to have people who can speak into your lives. It is good to have, you know, men and women of God who are also, for example, we are 10 years in the Lord. We've become matured, but there are people who are 30 years in the Lord and they've gone through ministry, they've seen everything. So we can always receive from them, right? Maybe ask questions, learn from them. Now the criteria that you were talking about, now, if you look at what Paul, the Apostle Paul, right, he chose Timothy, he chose his leaders very young and he let them, you know, he took them along, took them, showed them the ministry. Now, even if you look at Luke, a doctor, he's a physician, but Paul took him, right? And Luke may be wondering, hey, being a doctor, why should I be owing about and struggling with all this persecution and church? But Paul just put him. I don't see in the last letter, Timothy, Luke is there, right, the last episode as he's writing. So this, I would say there's a criteria as such. It could also be somebody your own age, so for example, I'm 35. I can have somebody who's, you know, 35, a friend in Christ who's speaking into my life and say every day, you know, just helping me, hey, why are you able to pray? Why are you able to read your word? What did God speak to you today? What do you think about this? Now, in the spiritual realm, there's no age, right? There's no age. It's all about maturity. So I would say that we don't have to go. So another thing that we do is, we don't have to go to somebody and say, hey, you be my spiritual father and mother, especially in our nation. And I don't know. I'm not sure about Africa and other countries, but in our nation, this whole aspect of spiritual father, spiritual mother has gone, it's good, but it's gone to another level where people are controlling. Hey, I brought you to Christ. I'm the one who taught you. So you have to be under. What happens? It's controlling. And that's not what God wants, right? The point of being a spiritual father, a spiritual mother is to build a person to maturity, to Christ's likeness. And if God is calling them to something else, they can always move on, right? So that's what I would leave it with, Shri Kumar. So if there are people in your life, you have two or three pastors or two or three ministers, I would say the best thing to do is be faithful to your local church and see if your pastor, your main pastor, associate pastor, if they are speaking into your lives and you're getting equipped, you're getting nourished, you're growing. Let's go with that. You don't have to say, okay, he's my spiritual father, he's my spiritual mother. You don't have to really say it, but it's something that you may have even two or three people speaking into your life. So I would say that is the criteria. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. See, you had raised your hand, was that say? I'm not sure. No, you already answered that. I was just going to ask if we actually find the spiritual fathers or God actually directs them to us. So I think you've already answered that. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah. So it is sometimes it's God, just God will direct them. God will just bring them to us. And you know, the reason, see, when Paul is writing, saying, I am your spiritual father, and I'm able to speak into her life. Now, at that time, he knew what he was speaking about. He was talking about the responsibility of a father correcting the son and daughter. But nowadays, you know, this whole, it's sad, especially in ministry, when we look at it, this whole thing of, you know, father or mother, hey, he's my spiritual father. My spiritual father told me to, you know, to sell my house. So I sold my house. My spiritual father told me, you know, go to this other country and do your studies. So I did it. My spiritual father told me, take a loan. So I took a loan. My spiritual father told me, you know, send all your gold, don't wear jewelry. So I've done that. That is what has happened. That's why we must be very careful. Spiritual father and mother is for the spiritual things, and not for the things of the natural. It is to grow and mature us in Christ-likeness and not to take advantage of people. So that we must be very careful about the wilds. Let me just check the notes. Right. Spiritual teacher, learn from his teaching. Spiritual father, you learn from his life example, life to life, spirit to spirit. Now, was the apostle Paul a spiritual teacher or a spiritual father? I would say he was both. He taught. He taught them. The reason was because they were all Gentiles. They didn't know anything about the gospel and gospel was still getting out. So yes, they learned from his teaching, but they also learned from his life example. There was a huge group of people that learned from his teaching, but people like Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Lou, Lydia, Phoebe, all of these, Aquila, Priscilla. Excuse me pastor. Is it recording? Is it recording is happening? Just want to It is recording. Yes. Yes, it's recording. Okay. Yeah, it's not displaying this. Okay. No problem. All right. So yeah, so as I was saying, the apostle Paul was did a lot of teaching, a lot of instructing, but he also showed his, you know, his fatherhood side by being a life example, life to life, spirit to spirit. And he says to his letters, he says, Timothy, he's been with me. He has the same spirit that I have. He has seen my life. Right. So he had a mixture and also even now we may have people who are teachers, spiritual teachers who teach and speak into our lives, who will also be a spiritual father to us, where they allow us to see their life, work with them and learn from their life. In life, more things are caught than thought. That's so true. It is so true. In life, many things are by what we see, we learn. And I remember this, I will give this example. I think I've used this example, but I'll never forget this. I'll never forget this. This is early, I think it was 2010. We went for this conference, right? As a whole theme. And the conference was for about, I think it was about 200 pastors. It was in the north of India. And it was for about 200 odd pastors. But what happened in that conference was there was a higher number. So there were about 350 odd people who turned up for that conference. Now, what happened was the lunch break came in and the food was there, but there were very less plates. So I very clearly remember them. These are the early days when I just became a believer, just trying to understand about church, about ministry and all of these things. We went and lunchtime, there were about 350 of them, but there were only 200 plates. Praise God that food was there. The plates was there. So we allowed everyone to eat at them. After a while, I saw our entire pastor routine carrying those plates and going to the sink. And there were these, you know, the leftovers of what was eaten by others, they would take them with a hand and put them in the dustbins. And our pastor routine was washing all the plates. And I looked at that and I was like, wow, this is a pastor routine. And this is, they don't have to do this, but they're doing it. I will never forget this because nobody taught us, you as a leader should wash your plate, Jesus washed others feet, so you wash your plate. Nobody told me this, but what I saw stuck on. This is a small example, but there are things that I have learned in ministry more than preaching was caught by just watching wonderful men and women of God all across our nation. And when I go to North India, I see the sea, the passion of these pastors, some of them are totally unafraid of persecution. They're unafraid. They say, you go tell whoever you want, if I have to go to jail, I will go to jail. I will never deny the name of Jesus. I will never deny the name of Jesus. Whatever you have to do, you do. They're so strong in the faith and these are highly persecuted areas. And you look at that faith and you just, oh, we can teach a lot about faith and about the power of God, but when you see it real in people's life, it is so real. It is so real. So remember that many things are caught, banned thought. Let's go to the next one here. All fatherhood flows from God, Ephesians 3, 14 and 15. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father, the Father Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named. Shri Kumar, this answers your question. God is the ultimate Father. All fatherhood flows from Him. As children, we flow in that same nature that moves us to be Father and Mother to others. So even as we come under the leadership of people, remember that all fatherhood flows from God. Now the Apostle Paul was a place of leadership, a pioneer in the ministry. I did wonderful works, but what does he say? He's telling the church in Ephesus, hey, I bow my knee to the Father. It is from Him everything that I that I'm doing, everything that I have is from the Father. Everything flows from Him. Paul, from where did you get this great wisdom from the Father? Paul, from where did you get this great understanding of the gospel of this scriptures from the Father? Paul, how did you get the wholeness to travel to start these churches in these persecuted areas from the Father? Paul, how did you survive all the shipwreck and the persecution, all the challenges from able to know what God is doing and how are you able to afford this kind of appointing from the Father? So Paul is emphasizing that everything that I have, everything that I do is from the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. This should be our identity, this should be from where everything flows. Of course, God will bring people to our lives, so spiritual fathering is an extension to fatherhood of God. So if there are spiritual fathers or mothers who are telling us things that we must do that are not in line with the word of God, what must we do? We can't say, hey, it's my spiritual father and mother, so I have to do that. Why don't you just tell them that, you know, imagine our spiritual father and mother saying, just tell them a lie, it's okay, just tell them, just one lie, it's okay, tell them no, I will not come because of this. Now, you and I must use this term. It may be your spiritual father or mother or leaders, but all, everything flows, fatherhood flows from God. Is it in line with God's blood? It is interesting to note that when the heart of the fathers is not towards the children and when the heart of the children is not towards their fathers, it opens the door to a curse. So our heart must be connected to the Father, Father's heart is connected to us and God brings people in between. As spiritual fathers and mothers, it's an extension what God is doing to build His people. Paul had spiritual sons and daughters. Here, 2 Timothy 1 and 2, he says to Timothy, my dearly beloved son, to Titus, to mine own son again, after the common faith, to Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 4, 14 through 16, again we read this, I write, not these things to shame you, but as beloved sons I warn you, right, because I have begotten you through the gospel, Galatians, my little children 490, of whom I travel and birth again until Christ be formed in you. So you see that, right? Why are the spiritual fathers and mothers there? So that Paul is giving the answer here, I travel and birth until Christ be formed in you. That is the goal. A spiritual father and mother is not, it's not that a spiritual father and mother is there, so they can just speak and just use their so-called spiritual children as slaves, make them do the work, make them go pick up their children from school, go clean the church, go bring your vegetables from the market, cook food when nobody is there. That's not what you know, God is talking about here. Paul is saying, travel and birth until Christ be formed in you. That is the main point. 1 Thessalonians 2, 11, as we know, how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, how? As a father dot his children. Again here the church was going through a tough time, saying, hey, the raptures already happened. They're saying, Jesus is not going to come back. What do we do, Paul? Paul is saying, I said, later on he exhorts the church, comforts them, he charged everyone, how? Just like a father does to his children. Right? In 1 Peter 5, 13, Peter considered John Mark to be his spiritual son. So there is nothing wrong about it, but always understand why there is a spiritual father and a mother, so that Christ be formed in us. That's the main intention. It's not to have spiritual fathers and mothers so that we become famous, so that we say, hey, because of me, he did this, because of me, this person is a ministry. So who is the spiritual father and mother? Sometimes we mistakenly think that the one who led us to faith in Christ is the one who is this spiritual father and mother, like how Shreya Kumar was saying, or the one who has given me baptism, or the one who has prayed for me and the gifts of the Holy Spirit came upon me. Only they can be my spiritual father and mother, but this is not always true, because anyone can procreate, but not everyone are parents. There's a saying, anyone can, yeah, I forget that saying, this the context, anyone can be a father, but not everyone can be a dad, and so there's that relationship. So anyone can procreate, but not everyone can be parents. The one who parents are, the one who nurtures, brings up the children into maturity, they are the real father and mother. A person whose teachings have, who you have imbibed through books, tapes, may not necessarily be your spiritual father and mother. Now, for example, you know, now with the world coming, everything is coming, everything is close by, because of internet, right? We can talk to people in different countries, let's say, okay, this person is my spiritual father, because past 10 years I'm listening to his sermons. We can listen to the next 10, another 10 years, but the spiritual father and mother should be there to minister to you, right? Just because I'm listening to their sermons or reading their books, doesn't mean they can automatically become a spiritual father and mother, because there needs to be a two-way communication. Imagine, I keep saying, hey, this person is my dad, he's my father, my father's not talking to me. It doesn't make sense. And so, a true spiritual father or mother is one who raises up another person from immaturity to maturity, right? Now, again, we want to be careful, because the spiritual father and mother can only speak into their lives. After that is the responsibility of the child to say, okay, I want to grow in the Lord. I remember many, many prophecies made on me, but they said, oh, Paul, you're going to be a worship leader, and you're going to be a teacher, you're going to preach the gospel in many places, God is going to use you and all of these things. And those days I literally bother, I said, okay, whatever. Okay, thank you, Lord. I would write them down, say, God. But I realized that all those prophecies are there, but if I am not reading the Word, if I am not praying, if I am not spending time in God's presence, if I am not changing my life, if I am not putting away the things of the flesh, if I am not fighting against the enemy, and I am living in a sinful life, those prophecies will be there, and it will not go away, it will be there. But I can't say, oh, God, this is what you prophesied, nothing happened. There must be something that we must do. The spiritual father mother can tell us, go back, read Romans chapter one and two, and come back and tell me what it means. What if I don't read it? It's not like he's my spiritual father mother, he's doing his best, he or she. But I'm not looking at becoming the person from immaturity to maturity. So there's a responsibility that you and I have. I look at Timothy, but 17 years old, probably around 17 years old, young boy, maybe he had, as a youth, he may have had many, as a teen, he may have had many things in his mind. He may have thought, hey, why should I come with this guy? Wherever he goes, people are, miracles are nice to watch. Wherever he goes, there's problems. But then we see that he grew, right, grew to a place that he went on to become the leader in the church in Ephesus. So Paul recognized that. So there was a part that we have to do. All right, let's take a break. We'll come back in 10 minutes and we'll continue from here.