 Welcome to the homelab show episode 72 out of band management and all the options around it. So yes, we're going to be talking about because Jay just did a video on it, the tiny pilot, but someone will undoubtedly be mashing the comments going, what about the Pi KVM? Of course, we'll mention that too, which you can probably run that on the same hardware there's a few projects out there. We may even use just the general word KVM because I know Jay referenced them and realized how expensive they are. But we're going to talk about all the reasons you might want to have this. We figure it's a pretty good homelab topic because some motherboards are going to have it. Those are great. The new ones are expensive, but the work around. So what we'll talk about in different methodologies before we get into that a place where you don't necessarily need lights out management, but they have a method to do this is the node sponsor of the show. And yeah, they've got a great way you can manage everything and you can upload ISOs there, things like that, build some of your own stuff. Can't you Jay? Well, you can DD directly to the instance because you can put it into recovery console. You can you could actually take an image of your machine and you could even create your own locally and then DD that right up to the node and run something that's not even on their list. Yes, Jay's got a few videos on the node already. They're a great sponsor. The show if you're listening to show was literally brought to you by Leno. That's where we host all of the WordPress and everything and all the downloads for the show. But we thank them for being a sponsor and play with all the fun stuff they have on there in your marketplace. I have some new videos I'll be doing on the node as well pretty soon because they've added some more things like I believe they recently got their ubiquity installer on there for the unified controller software. So I'll be excited to play with that offer code down below to get started with the node and let's jump into today's topic. Yep, lights out. Now, I figured this is definitely related to the home lab, even though a lot of you are probably saying but my server is an arm sling away or my server is just in that closet over there or just downstairs. And yeah, the moment that your server has some issue that goes down and one of them you can't figure out why because you can't SSH into it. And you're not at home but you are sitting there remotely with a laptop you will wish you had this for sure. And I even make sure even any of the lab stuff that we put together even for my lab because my lab is physically. Well, I live relatively close by my new studios at home and my lab is at my office for space reasons and yeah, it's it's small things you really want to have is access to the council one that something goes wrong. And that's what we figured is probably a good topic on there. It's also good training and understanding for the things you will very likely run into when you're dealing with enterprise equipment, whether you're managing it, you don't necessarily want to and even when it is just a room away. It's really convenient to be able to get to the council and get into the bio settings when well it won't boot and you want to be able to do that and you want to do it from your keyboard nice comfy spot and remotely so that's how we picked this topic. Which one should we start with probably buying old servers what to look for on them. I think that's a good place to start I'll add something to what you just said to I just ran into this issue where you know I think I solved it. I don't know you know it's kind of like home lab it's like it hasn't been showing the problem in a while but what ended up happening is that one of my proxmox nodes ended up just deciding that it every now and then just wants to drop the 10 gig card. I mean just you know it could work all day long and then usually around 10 at night you know the great time for this to happen. All of a sudden I get a notice that it's off the network and it's like what's going on so this is a situation where I used in my case IPMI I have a few servers that have IPMI and a few that don't. That IPMI allowed me to see right what was on the screen when I couldn't access it and that you know right on the login screen some text was saying you know the card was dropped from the bus so that would explain why I couldn't access it. So I can access the bios I could read you know reset it or whatever I have to do, or even just in my case log in when it's not on the network at all, because it dropped the card. I could log in, reboot it and then when it comes back up check the logs and whatnot so the. And like you were saying you could have it at arm's length away but a lot of us don't my other server room is so cluttered I don't even show it on footage at all. And I can't get a monitor in there if I tried I would probably trip over something and you know it don't be like me have a server room that's organized anyway. That really helped out for me but in my case is probably a good example as well because like I mentioned a few of my servers have IPMI and then you know some don't some have iDRAC so I think that's a good example of like what the other what the options are and what the differences are between them. So IPMI for example is built into a lot of motherboards I mean super micro being a good example of that. Super micro AS rock. Yep you can go right on into a web browser navigate to the IP address it's a separate IP address for IPMI than it is for you know the any cards or the systems Nick that you might have. So you get this IP address you can log in and iDRAC is basically the same thing we're at very high level here there's a lot of differences but the use cases the same and yeah iDRAC you log in through a web browser and that's going to be with Dell servers Dell PowerEdge servers has that. iDRAC is specific to Dell and HP has theirs called ILO ILO lights out management is the one for HP. Yep so there's different solutions and as we're going to explore your the solution might be awesome like in my case IPMI my super micro servers HTML5 requires no plugins just go to the you know IP address. Add your type in your username and password and that's it you just navigate the interface is pretty straightforward and again he here no plugins and this is going to be something we'll be talking about. Whereas with iDRAC whether or not you need a plugin depends on the version of iDRAC that you how old it is your server so. Yeah absolutely and you know that error message thing is probably a really important one because you want to know that last message that the server gave before it decided not to respond to network. And you know losing the network interface on the bus yeah we can reboot the server and we probably come back up and running but that is another convenient feature of the IPMI to go what did it do. I also like to watch them when I'm doing updates I know will require a reboot you know Zen server some of the XP and G. I get to watch it reboot and make sure all those things or if there's something scrolling by because if it doesn't get to the boot process I don't have an option to examine all the logs. But we'll start with the Dell ones because this is where I think a lot of homework or start because Dell is really popular in the whole market and your budget will determine what version of iDRAC you get essentially. Now the good news is the iDRAC system is a Dell one you want to go for the enterprise iDRAC if you want the full remote control features when you're looking for you servers you want to look specifically for the ones with enterprise iDRAC. The other nice advantage you get with the enterprise iDRAC is the most of them I mean there may be exceptions to this majority of them are going to have a dedicated extra interface for it. And you want this because I really strongly believe whether you're using ASRock whether you're using a Dell whatever version you're using make sure that it's on a separate network for security reasons because you don't necessarily want that to be accessible. I'm trying to remember which company it was but it's been a couple of them that had some security incidents there was a few data centers that left massive amounts of their networks where people could pivot to them. Really easily to the IPMI and that was actually the source of well some drama for them. So you really want to make sure that these are separate your lights out management network should be is separated in a more physical way not just a VLAN. I've seen this we actually did some consulting with the data center recently we're just going over all the infrastructure and they said they couldn't get insured unless it was verified that it was all separate so I thought that was cool. I was like okay great yeah it's yeah they actually said it was part of their insurance policy they're sure understood the need for it at the data centers because of the sensitivity of what they host and so they said it's actually physically separate is a independent separate network that manages anyone's I track and it's extremely limited you can access it so following those policies even if you're building your home lab makes a lot of sense. With the Dell enterprise one of the nice things about them and I to my knowledge they still sell them this way someone please correct me in the comments if this is changing I've just been not made aware of it but all the older ones are our perpetual licenses. I like that a lot because this can be a problem with some companies that have licenses and I think HP almost companies that has confusing licenses attached for things but the Dell's perpetual so if you have a fully enabled enterprise. I track on a Dell you get all the features even when it transfers to the next owner you don't have to re-register or anything like that. Now here's what the downside is like Jay mentioned the stupid Java thing you have to run everything was in Java for a long time when they did these so you had to use and there's different ways to do it so one way was to on Linux. Windows to slow Java and run the little Java app let it downloads in Linux there's a plugin called iced tea and that if you type in like iced tea Java Linux is pretty simple it's usually in most of the repositories it is for the Ubuntu based distributions. You can run it from there you have to say yes a lot because it'll have a bunch of applet questions that you just kind of yes your way through it and then you'll get a less than wonderful but workable screen on those. This was probably back to the iDRAC seven series I think the earlier eight once you go to the iDRAC nine it's all HTML five and simple I think there is a later version of eight that offers HTML five but. Yeah, yeah one that got a button got an update in the firmware and that's one of the things that's really confusing about iDRAC and why we're probably going to be talking about this like this segment being longer than most because of how confusing it is so you could have two Home Lammers that both get a Dell PowerEdge server from eBay or something and they could have a completely different experience like one person might access to the iDRAC works perfectly fine no plugins it's right there in the browser. The other person like you're saying there might not be a license for the iDRAC that came with the server or maybe there is a license for that iDRAC and like you're saying you buy it by that server it sticks with that iDRAC card. That's pretty cool but then it could be the older version and any Java now in my experience. You know the way that you mentioned how it all plays out that's correct that's what you want if you're stuck with an older iDRAC but you don't want Java at the same time but. The problem for me worked around I was not able to get that to work last time I tried it in any browser even with the plugin like there are so many. Like I said yes to everything for that particular instance in my test and it was still blocked in the browser and the browsers at this point. Are doing everything they can to get you know basically just get Java out of the equation and why is that well you have to understand the slogan for Java the official slogan is right once explained everywhere that's what well that's not what. You know Java says on the website but that's what I say the slogan is because it's a play on there right once run everywhere isn't it or deploy everywhere something like that but it's right once exploited everywhere because it's a security. Concern and all these hoops you have to jump through if you get it working then is the Java plugin sandboxed or is it going to be like lowering the security of your entire system. Yes now this is the problem because depending on the version of iDRAC you get you may have the HTML5 version or not you may have a license or not so look at the if you're buying a server and it just happens to be Dell you can look at the description. If it's licensed a lot of times they'll tell you because that's noteworthy and another option that I recommend if you have one of the older ones that can't be updated. Now I say I say recommend but it's a soft recommendation it's actually a container I haven't tried it myself so keep that in mind but. Basically my understanding is that this is a container image and you run this container and it has everything that iDRAC needs inside of it and it does some kind of a VNC proxy so you can see. You actually see what's going on in the iDRAC without worrying about anything because if Java's in the container. And you're only running that container just long enough to get into your iDRAC and do what you have to do and you shut the container down there's no security risk at that point. No extra one depending on how secure the rest of your system is but these are some hoops that you have to jump through with iDRAC which makes iDRAC. Either really super awesome or incredibly tedious depending on what you're just getting. And I'll add to the confusion here someone had posted in the comments and they are correct. iDRAC 7 does have because I logged in with the old servers we have iDRAC 7 does support HTML 5 so I was wrong about how old it is but we're I went to the about page I'm using it says iDRAC 7 at the top when you go to the about page it says version 2.6.1.6.6.0 build 08. So it's kind of strange why it calls it iDRAC 7 but the version number starts 2.6.1. So nonetheless it is it is a HTML 5 interface on that one. I know the newer ones are all HTML 5 so I guess you can go back to iDRAC 7 and get HTML 5 and you can look this up if you're buying one of these servers used on eBay there's still some good servers that may still have that old Java. But whatever you can go HTML 5 your life is easier it works in a browser. By the way sorry people who love Firefox you may find yourself opening some of these in Chrome. There has been some bugs where the it just HTML 5 sometimes doesn't work. I don't know if it's a specific version or an older version but I've seen it not work in some of the Firefox. It's the way it's not specifically Chrome like Google Chrome it's works in Chromium based browsers you'll run into that with some of these where that seems to be a prerequisite not all the time. But you may just of note if you have it gives you a weird loading error I've seen that problem on some of them. I don't think it's a Dell I think the Dell one works in both Firefox and that but nonetheless that covers a lot of the Dell stuff that you might be looking for on there. Another comment that I'll make about that is if you get a you know let's just say you get an iDRAC that is HTML 5 compatible or it doesn't even have to be iDRAC because I noticed this with IPMI the one that I have. And you log in and it basically says you need the Java plug in then you might think well wait a minute this one is supposed to be the one that supports HTML 5 why does it say Java well you'll have an HTML 5 button that you can click separate from the main one because they might still have that interface for legacy purposes but. They default to Java all the time I have no idea why so yes. Because an enterprise you know where these things came from I mean think of how long the enterprise kept Internet Explorer live for example these things stick around a while so they're probably just trying to avoid complaints like well I was set up for. Or my browser was set up for this now it doesn't work what's going on so they have that legacy thing in there personally I think. Legacy should be killed quickly and whatever company is that ready for it's their fault for not being ready but that's not a popular opinion so. It's also it's easier said than done right it is yeah so that's like you said that's basically iDRAC get the newest version you can. For the server model that you're ordering because even if it's like a let's say a. Are seven ten or something there could have been like several different versions of iDRAC sold through the life of that server so just. Having that model server doesn't mean you necessarily have a specific version of iDRAC because again there's multiple versions so. Get the highest version check and see if it's licensed from the seller wherever you're getting it from. And what if you do all that you should be fine. Yeah you should be good to go on that so the. The next one we're talking about is obviously we mentioned super micro a few times a lot of the super micros I actually think pretty much. Most all the equipment they make has that option on it all the server does. And it's really nice and the same thing the older ones are going to have that so when you're looking for any of you servers with the. Micro series check that out they usually most of us I've seen party universally come with a dedicated port for it. Which is great you don't have to worry about trying to you know parse that out of one of the other ports because sometimes they're bound to. If there's two network ports will be bound to one of them and not have the separate but you can same thing they'll have a separate on there. Now if you want to start with building your own stuff and it's actually very similar like it's kind of how bias manufacturers is only a few of them. The IPMI and lights out management tools there's only a few of them out there because the one that I noticed in AS. The rock rack series are also seen to be the same ones that are in the gigabyte motherboard series that has these as well. And I'll be doing some upcoming videos because we built some new lab servers based on the AS rock rack series X 57 X 570 D for you. There's a link I threw in the description for this particular board. Now these are really nice and if you're building a server it's kind of a price points problem. The price jumps up substantially for these particular boards but they're the you know more commercially driven boards that really work really well. But their lights out management has a lot of conveniences and this board right here supports specifically the AMD Ryzen series processors. But one of the problems you may run into and this is kind of a nice thing about being able to do lights out management. If you're doing different or newer generation processors that maybe the bios doesn't have support for you can even get all your bios updates and everything set up for these. So it actually edits and convenience. We had to do some bios updating when we first got this. There was a couple of little things that we're having problems with. I have notes on it that I won't get into here. But nonetheless you can buy these boards with lights out management for I don't think a completely unreasonable price. This board is roughly in the $400 range or something that a little bit cheaper. But if you're building something new you can build something that has all this lights out management feature on there. I know it's an investment if you're building in your home lab but if you're looking at new boards I would definitely steer towards these. They add all the conveniences that we talked about at the beginning for getting things done and managing remotely. So yeah check those out there's plenty of manufacturers that have it on there. And once you don't have to plug in or use video on it at all life just gets simpler because we actually are building what we built three of them. And so we just you know set them all up on a separate network for management I can see the screens of all of them you can load them. Now to go further they have the ability to add media to these and the newer Dells have this ability well you can actually attach ISOs to them and actually set up your installers. This is really convenient because now without popping in a USB to reload it you can completely remotely reload the operating system reconfigure it and get things going on it without ever having to come and physically touch it. This is actually used in the data center level a lot where they'll have you know maybe a local storage server because some of them will allow you to mount SMB shares. And then maybe have an ISO set up with a series of SMB shares or sometimes you can just direct attach them if you know the operating system you're going to be loading. And if there's ever a problem with the machine you have complete remote access to get it restored get it done. And of course you can put bootable USBs in these and leave them in there and use them for that use case where you have the OS flash on a USB you just don't set it to the boot device but hey if something goes wrong you can go in reconfigure it reload. The conveniences are stellar for being able to do that and have it on there. So you have to tell your admins about that because I remember earlier in my career I ran into a situation where I had somebody I was you know talking to over the phone and walking them through doing you know fixing something for the company server. And I rebooted the machine and he's like it's putting in the window setup I'm like what. Wow. You know like is there a USB key somewhere. No. What what do you mean there's no USB key how is it booting into Windows setup if it like is there a DVD drive yeah. Is there a disk in there. No. Oh that's what I discovered that there's you know where I'm going with this. Yeah. And that's what I discovered that some of these servers actually have a USB port on the motherboard and some admins will actually put it put the OS installer right on it. Probably shouldn't make that the first boot choice though just saying that's a little unusual but. Yeah that's actually very common and I found out the hard way we spend we spend a good amount of time trying to figure out why Windows setup kept coming up. Yeah. Yeah. You look even the super micro that. See Xavier joined us here. One of the things that like the super micro that I jays using it's got the USBs internally. These are common for a lot of them but it's also something you can set up if you're going to do this for a business and you don't necessarily want to drive out there but hey things go wrong. Something went completely haywire at least you can get some of the reload process and things started that way. Maybe even do a recovery if you have images you can send on there you know having all that remote access in there is really handy. Now let's move on to what happens when you don't and what about these fancy Rotarian KVMs I think you had brought those up in your recent pilot video. I don't really understand why it maybe it's just a mass manufacturing problem even used when you look at some of the IP based KVMs they're expensive they are genuinely I think used the one you pulled up was in the $1,800 range is that sound right. It was yeah and it's kind of funny when I you know when I put that in the video because then Veronica who you know our audience might know from Veronica explains message me and apparently that person that that random eBay post was near her home town. And I think she might even know the resellers actually that are putting that on eBay what are the odds but yeah they are very expensive and I've never known how to. Pronounce that I hope I pronounced it right in the video I say I said Raritan or rare tan yeah rare tan I think maybe I'm I mean yeah there's an I before it so it's rare tan. We're probably both wrong at the end of the day. Yes. Yeah, those are some pretty pricey KVM systems. It's one of those things that a lot of people ask about it and it's a common question and things go you know we're going to get a cheap one and the most popular brand that I'm aware of is those and it really slick the way they work they're essentially like a rack mounted one you appliance and then they're going to use the network as a transport to be able to connect to it. I really wanted to build these when we started setting up our office for when we did a lot more retail computer repair, but it became impractical from the price standpoint I couldn't believe how much they want it. But we're not saying not to do it we're saying there's another solution. And that video J did now there's more than one project based around this you have the tiny pilot project which is not really a project more of a product. The difference is it's still based on a lot of the open source stuff is still based on Raspberry Pi, but they sell it as a complete go ahead and get started kit. Then you have the Pi KVM. That's just a big DIY kit with a GitHub link to lots of the ways you find the parts and assemble it so either one of those are good. And they're both based on Raspberry Pi kind of depends on do you want to assemble it and put it together yourself. That's a fun project. Probably a lot of people might lean that way or do you just want one out of the box that works that has an update process and everything to set it up. But either one of these are good solutions for any existing board. But how much was that tiny pilot. Yeah, I think it was 359 99 US dollars and then PoE the version I reviewed had that extra but what I really liked about it I mentioned this in the video. Obviously people are going to say hey that's a lot of money I can't really you know why are you just blindly recommending this thing this nearly $400. And that's true right because we all not all of us has have money to spend on these things but then that same company on on their website has a blog post where they say here's how you just make one of your own for less than $100 which tells me you know the that works out really well because if you just so happen to have a Raspberry Pi lying around because you know God forbid trying to actually find one right now. And you don't have anything in mind to use it for you can look at that blog post and find out what extra components you might need for example you might need a HDMI to vj adapter which you'll need one that's USB powered they have that on the site there. You might only need a few extra things and if you have access to a 3d printer even better because then you could print a case for it and then for less than $100 or way less than $100 if you already have a Raspberry Pi then essentially for $40 $50 or so you you have a whole solution around But this is where you know one of the cool things I think I think someone asked this question in your video I don't know if you responded to it yet, but they asked, could you take the Pi KVM and hook it up to which KVMs. And we actually tested this one in, as I did a review of the tiny pilot as well and we did some testing with this, and you can find some lists that have been maintained of like eight port KVM switches that work with the Pi KVM. What this allows you to do is make it really easy you got eight computers, or more you want to or you know I would say eight because it's an eight port one. But you have like a few computers you want to hook up you buy one Pi KVM set it up configure it and it talks to a generic like you would sit in front of it type KVM, and they have the instructions to how to set up to switch between all the different systems on there. So take that, Retarian, because you can buy those eight port ones used for relatively cheap. And now you've got your IP KVM solution at a homelabber affordable price. You know it's a little bit. So there are solutions and workarounds out there. There is a list though you just Google multi port KVM over. If you, it's on the Pi KVM docs they have they maintain a whole list of it over there. And because Pi KVM is so similar to the tiny pilot, I believe that any of those I can't guarantee them to you test them but they should work. The limited limited testing we did. We didn't have a problem getting our tiny pilot working with a couple small KVMs we had laying around the office. You just have to make sure that the key presses whatever those are the sequence of them will go through the Pi KVM because some of the KVMs will only let you press buttons. Well obviously those that's not working because you're not you're not able to press buttons on physically, but nonetheless it's another workaround solution for to get that going. And since the first time I reviewed the tiny pilot because a new one, you know, was a new review. I reviewed it before, you know, when it first came out I think or near the time it first came out. And since then they added the ability to boot from an ISO image you can actually upload an ISO image to the tiny pilot. Yes. And then what happens is you go into the bios you choose the boot order you can actually set the tiny pilot itself as the first boot option. So if you have an ISO mounted it'll just put into that and you can do that. I mentioned power over Ethernet. Now this is way overkill but as you're talking about the eight port KVM or HDMI or what was that like an attachment or a HDMI splitter that was eight port that you put on the KVM. Yeah. So basically the one idea I had again this is overkill is getting a server chassis mounting the Raspberry Pi inside, mounting that inside and then you know terminating the ends at the end and just have a whole rack mode solution that's based on Raspberry Pi again overkill completely unnecessary, but sometimes overkill and unnecessary is the most attractive to us because it's just so cool. And you could have like a whole rare tan equivalent that is rack mounted based on Raspberry Pi with the ability to have multiple servers. And it'll still cost you less than even with the inflated Raspberry Pi prices probably still cost you less than the actual rare tan and it's something that you made with how cool would that be. If anyone does that please send us photos. Okay, absolutely so cool to see, but you could absolutely do it because us homelabbers were creative we love to build things and we. So I think if you're a homelabber it's either build your own or just use any parts you might have to build your own, if you have the parts. And if you could find a Raspberry Pi if you don't already have one but if that's not you and you're a business and you need a turnkey solution you can just order the already made version of that which I suspect businesses would be like the biggest customer for that $350 version whereas people like us were probably reading that article that says here's how to build it for under $100 that's probably what we're going to be doing. Yeah, and I'm positive of you you have the Raspberry Pi laying around and you just need the couple extra accessories so. Yeah, the moment you've been training for. Absolutely, I think it's all we have for all the light top management and there's it's not a deep topic but it's stopping I thought worth covering. Yeah, because of some of those ideas on there I've made sure I've dated a description to include Jay's tiny pilot video. I also included the link for those of you that want to know which KVM switches work with the Pi KVM so you can look at those and they seem as the ones that are not like brand new ones are actually some older generic ones that I'm positive you can find on eBay for a pretty cheap price. Actually, I'm going to, I'm going to look at one other bonuses there even HDMI ones which is kind of cool. So does this one that is really cool too. Yeah, a lot of a lot of the servers will be using will most likely have VGA because of the age of the server but that's nothing that a VGA adapter can't solve pretty easily anyway so yeah there's like one of the ones listed is the looks like it's called Tess smart eight port and $115 going on eBay right now buy it now so you know that's you buy that in the Pi KVM you're still you're building a pretty robust solution for your home lab for a pretty reasonable budget provided you actually need it you don't have a home lab with a bunch of displays on it. So if you if you already have the home lab and you've already built everything with a bunch of old Dells and you get the iDRAC enterprise well you know that's that's the other solution we talked about first. So I could you know I was kind of reminded strangely of I used to have a computer repair business a long time ago it was a lot of fun I really enjoyed it. And I was just kind of thinking, like, if back then we had something like the tiny pilot, how much easier would it be for a computer repair shop. Again, a business can afford this this isn't something a home lab could do but if you work for a repair shop you might like this idea, getting like I don't know anywhere from five to 10. You know, KVMs tiny pilots, and then just instead of having like a monitor, like a, you know, manual KVM switch you could just, you know line the customers computers up that you're fixing and then have each one on a on a KVM and then just from one workstation you could just multitask and fix all the computers in one shot you don't even have to have a lot smaller of space there I mean there's so many use cases I don't think you could get away with playing a Nintendo switch off of a tiny pilot it would. Absolutely show it, but I don't think that would work, but there's probably a lot of clever use cases that I'm not thinking. We had that we have a eight port we still had it's still actually at my office when we did retail computer repair. We had an eight port so we could so one tech could work on eight machines with with a pair of them. So each tech was able to swap between eight machines, mostly because loading them has become easier and less less the problem. We just load our remote control tool on each one of them so one tech can sit in his office and now control many of them that are in even they're in the office they still use it, because, you know, I think someone said earlier, the best, the best sysadmins never leave their desk. Yeah, I saw that comment come up to, and I thought that was a great one because it is true because we're being efficient we don't want to run back and forth anymore than we have to because that's a waste of time let's be honest, especially if you are an IT employee at a really large campus where you have to walk from one building to the next constantly to fix people's computers is probably better just to have remote access to make it more efficient for sure. Wait, are you saying Jay, there's a chance that all this automation is making it people less healthy and sit there that's more. Is this is this related. Mental health or physical health both are important and I always argue that mental health is more important because a lot more bad can happen as a result of that so if you're taking care of your mental health at the very least I think you're probably good and I don't think mental health is really best served by a waste of time over and over again. Yeah, but you get a breath of fresh air walking across the campus. That's true to then go find yourself aggravated that someone didn't plug something in but that's a whole different topic tales from tech support we could commiserate about forever. But thank you for joining us links are down below and you know I think someone just mentioned to Jeff Girling did a video recently about this, a KVM and I seen a video come up I did not watch it yet, but we talked to Jeff all the time he's a good friend of me and Jay's. Yes, he did it with a compute module on there so I will go watch that video as well. I see Jeff killing videos are always like just a source of entertainment and education all combined into one so definitely a good friend of the show here. One day when Jeff has a few extra minutes that we can squeeze out of him, we would love to have him as a guest because he is the raspberry pie king that is for sure. Yeah, we'll be definitely trying I mean he this is one of my favorite YouTube channels. Oh yeah. And he puts so much work into his videos that that's the reason why he doesn't have time to come on here because the amount of work that goes into every video that he does it's almost like you take any of the super advanced videos that I do and just imagine that being every single video for a guy but hopefully we can get him on the show that Alright, send your feedback over to our website there is a spot where you can fill out the form feedback that's where you get to ask those questions that we cover first when we do our Q&A episodes looking forward to hearing from you. Tag us in a tweet if you built something crazy to that's always me and Jay love seeing all the different home that things in the wild ideas people come up with so definitely always a lot of fun and we'll see you next time. Thank you.