 Good afternoon everybody or good evening or good morning depending on what time zone you're think tech Hawaii time for responsible change and today we're really, really happy to have with us. Retired judge and author, Sandra Sims with diamond had in the background and mediator arbitrator coach entrepreneur and life guide Tina Patterson. And for today, one of the things that we thought we might dive into, hopefully deeply is how it feels to be a 21st century black woman and see what's happening in front of your eyes right now, or woman general. Yeah, we were just, you know, reflecting on on the new law in Texas, and the way in which is it has targeted women to be subjected once again. And to being the subjects of innocence it's actually bounty hunters. I was thinking back to a piece I did some a little while back, and at another meeting, looking at Fannie Lou Hamer hammers life. And, you know, she was a pioneering voting rights, you know advocate who took on the Democratic Party and was in 1964, or something like that. And she had actually been an actual sharecropper we you know we talk about people who did sharecropping as though there's some sort of. It's not a thing that's familiar to their people that she did this for this is how she bet her family was as a sharecropper. And when she began to take her this made the decision to pursue the right to vote. They were deprived of that they were booted off their off the land. The family is homeless. She was, she was beaten in marches where she was literally kicked and prodded by police officers who were who were, you know, battling the protesters, when she was hospitalized. She was given an involuntary hysterectomy sterilized without her consent. This is an adult black woman, and she is not unlike many who have been subjected to this whole assault on the bodies of women, as though everyone else has this has a say in what's supposed to happen, you know, to us as women. It's, it's becoming, and here we are again it's you know this is, it's becoming maddening, distressing, sad, frightening. At least that's kind of what I'm feeling that's what I read this and saw what the Supreme Court did or did not do in this instance. It was, it was deeply sad, sad for me to see that to feel that once again. It's kind of being, you know, kicked under kicked under the bus, just that's what it feels like it's just starting to feel like, what else can we do to, you know, to, to, to, to make their lives miserable what else can we do to divide to divide women from by, by base, by income, by access to health care what else can we do to stand between them. And anyway, I, I got a little carried away, Tina you tell me. I'm sorry. I'm going to say, don't be sorry Chuck that's a deep question and it's a, it's an expansive question. And I think it's a question I thought, you know, the two people that you could possibly ask, we represent experiences and generation, a generation that if you had a 20 year old or 30 year old here, it would be very different so I'll talk about my experience. And I'll talk about, I'll answer your question to the best of my ability, I'll just say that. I think that the knowledge of the women who came before me has been critical in shaping who I am and what I do, what I say, where I go. I have been fortunate to have people reach back to me and make, make a way for me, open a door for me, not because I'm black. Sometimes because I'm a female, but not always because I'm black. There have been people who have said, yes, you're a black woman, you're a black young woman, we want to give you a chance. There have been people who already made a decision when they saw me that I couldn't do, or I wouldn't do. I didn't have the capability and overcoming that. I'm fortunate that I had parents who pushed me. Sometimes you would say pushed too much, but they pushed nevertheless. I'm fortunate that I, I had the opportunity to be with teachers who said, you know, this is a little girl who likes to read books, let's give her more books. This is a little girl who likes writing but let's, let's have her right. But I'm not so naive to believe that it just was on my own doing. I still have, have seen things and mean that I haven't seen in myself. And it's that it's those moments when I hear about legislation and rules. You know, 50 years, no, more than that. 70 years ago, I wouldn't have been able to vote. And then I would have had to undergo poll tax and other kinds of taxes, pay poll tax and undergo test to vote, learning to read or write would have been illegal. And so I keep that all in mind because I know I stand on the shoulders of those who come before me and some of them who come before me aren't that much older than me. I'm five, six, seven, 10 years older than me, but it's also those who didn't get the master's degree or the PhD or become a lawyer. It's my grandmother. It's my grandmother who told me keep doing I'm praying for you and I know that's probably stepping on a boundary to talk about religion but that that that's all factored into this. You know, the legislation that we've been talking about in Texas, it's more than this is dynamic. It's a gender dynamic. I'm not and I'm not going to play it out as partisan. It's not partisan. It's a gender dynamic. It's the concept of women having power. And that's what made me chuckle because in our own right, Sandra is powerful and my own right, I'm powerful, but accepting that and embracing that if we embrace it ourselves, we're told not to, you know, you're supposed to be sugar and spice and everything nice. And, you know, saying that you do embrace your power. Oh, well you are filling the blank whatever word you want to use, but that's also seen as a threat and a challenge. And it's it's that ongoing struggle for women. It's also, I think, what divided when I think about the women's movement in the 60s is recognizing that power was underlined but who had the power was never really talked about and I always think about Shirley Chisholm saying, if you don't have a seat at the table, bring a folding chair, because she knew what was going on. You know, and yes, you know, I'm, again, not so naive to believe that it, you know, we're all sitting around the table holding hands some sometimes people don't want me at the table but that's okay I've got my folding chair with me. Yeah. Yeah. No point. Absolutely. I'm glad hearing you check. Sorry, Sandra, you've been a judge for many years. I forgot my year on mute shirt today. And the Texas law changed things from almost 50 years of row versus Wade protections for women's rights to decide serious health concerns and decisions. relating to their own bodies and their own lives and their own reproductive lives. And instead of saying wait before we change everything in ways different from 50 years of precedent and track record. Let's put a hold on this law let's take a look at it let's see if it passes muster. If it doesn't, then things should stay in place, but instead, they let it go. Yes, as a judge, not only as a woman. How does that strike you. It's very disturbing and unsettling for for a person like me who I, I am a firm believer in the rule of law. And it's any importance adherence to constitutional principles. And when the Supreme Court makes that decision to allow a plate a case so clearly questionable so clearly unconstitutional to just simply stand and wait for there to be harm imposed on people before they, you know, take a look at it was to be honest I was I was quite shocked. Even though we, you know we say we have this very conservative, you know court, I still believe in that even in that situation, whatever your label you wish to aspire attribute to yourself. The rule of law says that in that situation. Let's take a look at this before we make a determination this needs to be looked at this is unlike anything we've ever seen before. We know what's what's coming we know what's underneath it's unlike anything we've seen before we can't just let it stand, because someone's going to be harmed by this. And when that did not happen. I, it hurt. You know, as a judge it hurt to see that. And, and of course to it hurt. I think that's the what the one feeling I had at the time that hit me more than anything else was the fact that we've come so very very far we've looked at so many things that so many injustices in our system have been addressed by our courts particularly in our, you know, coming out of the 70s and so forth. Those decisions came on the Supreme Court who just examined everything and made us all really believe that this is where our are. Justice would prevail whatever we're justice is going to prevail because this is, I don't know I just, I just felt sad. I still feel sad and hurt. And that's our highest court. I just, it really did I'm I, I think I can't. I'm wanting to sound very, you know, intellectual and wise and all of those things about what this did but it hurt. It just simply hurt to see our Supreme Court do this it hurt. So both ironic and striking. Texas is the 14th state as I understand it to enact legislation that would essentially prohibit prohibit abortion within the first trimester, a lot of penalties and prohibitions for first trimester abortion directly contrary to Roe versus Wade and the law of the land for almost 50 years. The machine of those states laws have been struck down by the right by the district judges and the Supremes didn't even mention that in letting it go. And one of the things that has to be painful for all of us is, we may have had a pretty good idea of where the four guys would go. Probably one of them would have some judicial independence, but didn't. But to have a woman be the swing vote, a woman who probably shouldn't be there. There's that. And suit is now brought on behalf of the United States Department of Justice by the man as a G who probably should be there and should have. Yeah, you know I hadn't thought about that part of it but yeah, there's that. Oh my goodness you're right Chuck I haven't even I missed that one, because his his his appointment was rejected. And from Australia. Oh, got that out. Oh, you said, you know, you guys are really screwed up. We are. We really are. Oh my God, I didn't even think about that either. So we need to put things in context and understand them in context and decide them in context. And we need to bring up and tell and share those stories, the Fannie Lou Hamer story, the story of your own experience Tina, and so many more. So the things that you're talking about ring directly on point and true with the pillars of cast that Isabelle Wilkerson lays out in her book, origins of our discontents. Exactly. We need to share, and we need to learn. Yeah. So women, how do you lead us because obviously the guys are falling way short. You know, I, I, again I come back to what we mentioned on other occasions is, I think it's our young women younger generation that's going to be pivotal in ringing about the kinds of changes that we need to make I know. You know, it feels like we're like starting all over again but I think this generation is is different. Yes, there were the 60s and I'm going to hear the phrase you know, okay boomer. Okay, you know, derpently so okay boomer, but I think this is a younger generation who is, you know educated and empowered in a way that previous generations have not been they've accepted. And then accepted their power and their ability to make change because they've seen it. They've seen it happen. And so I have to be hopeful about that that's where you know leaders are coming from. I hope to have been in some ways, somewhat of a inspirational help to some who, you know gone on on these paths but I, I am, although I'm sad and hurt about where we stand today. But with regard to this issue and and other issues that have just basically pitted us against each other by, by politics, by, you know, by, by, by health disparities, by income by race, the cast we're back to the cast, and always we're pitted against each other in such a way that we're having difficulty just just finding common ground I mean, we're now in the midst of this mass versus unmask. I mean even that has its own way of, of creating an artificial division. Among us that need and exists we were in a pandemic there's things we need to do. And we don't need to vilify each other to do that. We do we we, we tend to favor the vilification as a, as instead of sitting down trying to figure out how we can work this out, or have any respect or regard for those who have different points of view. But I have to be hopeful. And I am. I am really am. We're alluding to sounds like a matriarchal society. And in a matriarchal society, we would be leading. But that literally means that the power is shared for that to happen in the US. I am not saying that we, we kick all men off the, the continental United States and send them elsewhere but what I am saying is that there's a recognition. That there's power that that power can be shared. Interestingly enough I was in a class recently and the woman was talking about the structure of power, especially in the United States in the context of race. You know, when we think about property ownership. Historically, it was based on the male line. So from father to son from son, father, father to son and so on. But when we look at the laws and legislation regarding race, it was based on mother. So if the child had, yes, so if the child's parent was of another race or ethnicity that child was aligned with that parent, even if it was the one drop rule so you have things like in my home state. So what if we took that same thought process and looked at it in terms of power, and, and how we, how we shape how we think to the point that Sandra was making, you know, if we're going to lead, can, can we take the best of and and apply that. So when I think about when I hear in developing countries. The, the programs where money micro loans are provided the micro loans are given to the women, and it's not throwing any shade on the men, but the micro lenders have found consistently that when the money is given to the women. Not only does that woman take care of her household but she also applies that to the entire community. She shares the resources, she shares the knowledge and then not the community as a whole is uplifted, whether that's the sewing machine that comes to the community or the baby chicks that later become more chicks for others, but it's spread. It's it spreads. And again, not throwing any shade on men. But, again, this is an opportunity to see the best of. You know, how do you work collaboratively, not, and it's not always necessary to be competitive. Very interesting. And if we think about it culturally, exactly as you indicate. And even in Western societies have been expected and demanded to be the relationship builders, the team builders, the relationship and team managers, the collaborators, the ones who managed conflict, and enabled people to get past it. And one of the things that we're seeing in this time is that who women who are able to do that, even in the political arena, exceptionally well, the Stacy Abrams, the Kamala Harris is the Isabel Wilkerson has a leading author and more are taking communities and the strengths of the people whose shoulders they stand on the Fannie Lou Hamers and many others. Yeah, and we build on this. Yeah, I think so and I think if we look at our, our professions now, you know, there is such a greater emphasis on work life balance in so many fields. And that's been championed and, and led that movement really been led by women, as when more women come into the professions. And now we're seeing and not just in legal profession but in all in the corporate world as well we're seeing that whereas, you know, 50 years ago, you know, concern about your family life or was just unheard of. And not something to be mentioned in the, you know, in the corporate workplace not to mention in the courtroom. You have a family or you have another life outside of this legal profession, or this corporate entity that you're a part of so that's been important, I think aspect of our, our changing society has been fueled by women being involved as Tina talked about the sort of the approach to society as comfortable women saying, Listen, we've got to balance this. You know, it can't just be I'm going to, you know, 14 hours here and, and there's nothing else I don't, I don't try to look at, you know, things like issues like childcare and access to, you know, to help get those kinds of things were not necessarily the key pieces in our profession, until there were more women involved. And if you look at women in leadership, naturally and internationally, off the top of my head the US is the only major country I can think of, who has not had a woman in leadership in recent decades. Yeah, we are absolutely and not to throw shade on or pick on people but if you put our recent male leaders. Hey, in the same room with New Zealand's leader. We're not looking very good. Oh match. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. No, and it's exactly those skills the relationship building skills the consensus building the team building the diplomatic skills and the leadership skills to bring the country together. Yeah, in times of trauma and tragedy. Absolutely. So, I think you're aiming us in the right direction. And hopefully we have some of the people out there who can help us help take us there. I think we can. I think we have I think, you know, just even we started off with this, you know, talk about what's happening with Texas but I think the attention going there. And people really seeing what's happening to to to the rights of women to the rights of young people to the rights of that we bought so hard to have. And all of a sudden they're just being cost aside I think that gets people's attention. And hopefully that'll be as you did the attention is there now we're seeing that. So that's will be okay, I think, I hope. And as we move into our last minute or two. I'm going to borrow from my Australian friend again he said, Hey, check you know what you guys are missing. Hey, not only leaders with conscience character and courage. But there's another sea that your leadership needs and that's charisma. Oh, and if you look back to the 60s the Kennedys the Martin Luther Kings. Both candidates Jack and Bobby and others. They all really brought that to the table in ways that galvanized people. Barack Obama had, excuse me former President Obama had some charisma. I think so. Yeah. And that ability to kind of bring people together but I don't, you know, he was an exception and I don't think we've seen much. Didn't see much before you know in that interim between the time you spoke of him when he came along, and then certainly since he's since he's not the president. We've not seen that it that is a key thing, because that's the thing that gets people that brings people together, because right now we're not together we're all. All of this, but you'll need someone who can kind of speak that calming, you know, way of making people feel like they have a stake in it that we're all in this together, and then we can pull through this together. You haven't seen that. You saw some, you know, with President Obama we did, you saw, you know, lots of moments of that but I don't know, and I don't, I don't know, I don't see anybody on the, on the horizon either. Do you. I don't, I was going to say Chuck, but I know you don't like that idea but. Yeah, connect with people. You do you've connected a lot of people. Well, we may be, we need to expand this picture a little bit and the context a little bit. I believe that a huge amount of the courage character conscience and charisma that President Obama demonstrated was modeled and inspired by Michelle. And I think she did exemplify all of those characteristics. For me when somebody asked me back in 2018 2019, who I would have liked to see in the candidate's position her name came up first because she did exemplify almost and she brought people together in ways that were inspirational she could talk to students and teachers she could talk to nurses and hospitals she could talk to politicians and international leaders. Yeah. Those are the models that you're right. Thank you for bringing home to us today that it's time for women to be given the respect and the opportunities for the leadership attributes that so many have a model to get the chance to show us the way. Thank you both. Thank you all come back and join us in a couple of weeks. And I'm sure there will be more to take up at that time Sandra Tina. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you always raising the bar.