 Alright, those of you that struggle with eating too much, I'm going to issue you a challenge right now. I dare you, eat your body weight in grams of protein from Whole Foods, prioritize it in every meal, meaning eat your protein first, and watch what happens. I bet you 99% of you will lose weight. It's hard to overeat when you eat your protein targets. This is a fact. So, instead of trying to cut things out, just hit those protein targets and then watch what happens. This is my favorite thing to say. Yeah, it took me at least, I don't know, seven, eight years before I figured this piece out with my clients, instead of over-complicating it by writing out all these ridiculously diet plans that had, you know, half of an orange and four crackers to this and two scoops of tuna. Quarter of a teaspoon of peanut butter. Yeah, trying to figure out exactly the perfect macros for each client, just like, you know, just this is what I want you to do, Whole Foods and count your protein intake. Just do that. I promise if we do that, and I'm not worried about anything else, I swear it would work every time. My brother-in-law right now, he's trying to get leaner and I've been talking about this forever. And he finally is like, dude, I started tracking my protein just to see what I'm hitting. He's like, I'm hitting like 50 or 60 grams a day. I said, bro, just, he weighs, I think, 180 pounds. I said, hit 180 grams of protein from Whole Foods. He's like, but I'm just going to eat more. I'm just going to make me fatter. I'm trying to get lean. I said, just do it. Watch what happens. Sure enough, four days later, he's like, I can't. He goes, I can't eat that much. It's like, it's stuffing me. I said, and what's happening? Are you starting to lose weight? He's like, well, let you know. And sure enough, you know, two weeks later, he's been doing it. Your brother's not 180. My brother-in-law-in-law. Oh, I was like, bro, your brother's like, 240. Yeah, he's a big boy. Yeah, he's a big boy. Oh, I was like, what did he get down to 180? My brother's leg is 180. He got all the genetics, didn't he? I'm still shook from the story you were telling about your brother that happened to him. Was it yesterday that happened to him when he was with the baby? Yeah, some dudes. That brought it back for me. I forgot about that. I don't know if I ever shared that on the podcast for now, but that was a moment as a dad where I was like, oh, that did not feel good. Yeah, I mean, long story short, he's just some drunk guy through like a full beer can at him and his kid, just randomly while he was with his kid. Are they walking in their neighborhood? They're just walking around. And yeah, he was like walking kind of through downtown or whatever where he's at. And he said it was a weird feeling. He goes, because you have your kid. So his son's not even two years old or two years old, right? He's like, I had to get away because he wanted to protect your kid. And then when he realizes his kid was safe, then the rage comes up. I've had that, you know, when you feel like your kids, you know, at risk and you just want to get your kids safe. And then when you realize they're safe, then they're like, now it's the animal. The gloves are off. Yeah, that's what happened to you, right? You were walking with. Yeah, we were. I was pushing Matt. This was when Max was he was under. He was for sure under two. I think it was under a year because that was actually it. Yeah, he was. I think you had you were carrying him in fact. No, I think it was pushing him in the stroller. Okay. I was pushing him in the stroller. He's under one. We used to Katrina and I used to do this like loop about a half mile loop around our neighborhood and real actually real peaceful, nice neighbor. This is back when we live off of Burnetti over there and and this dude, he was he was walking towards me and I could I could see him a ways away and you could just tell he was drunk. I mean, he was staggering and he was kind of yelling and talking and it's like me and him and we're walking straight towards each other and I just had this moment of like, oh shit, what do I do if he tries to attack me or make some move towards me and I thought, you know, you think initially like, oh, I'll fight him. I'll do whatever to protect him. You go like it at risk. Yeah. But then my kids at risk, right? Yeah. What if he had a knife and what if it doesn't go well and like, so then you go shit and that's even worse, right? So then I have this angry guy who we get into it and then now my son is so yeah, I had that and I remember I kind of bolted across the street, but I'll never forget that moment of being faced with that like, oh shit, what would I do in a situation like that? It's a weird conundrum because you want to like, you want to be aggressive, but then you like this can put my kid at risk. So then you want to run or what do I do? It's a weird feeling. Yeah. Although I would bet all of my money on the dad in that situation. I don't care how big you are as a dad. Like that's yeah. I know my brother and my brother is he's a big like I tell you, I say he's got all the genetics because he does this kid. I say kid, he's a grown man. I kick is my younger brother. He don't even work out. He'll put a 315 on the bench like just whatever. He's just a strong dude. He got my dad's genes right with the strength and I mean that whoever that guy was is is actually quite fortunate because I know him. He would have got her to be a lot more purpose behind each one of those strikes. Yeah, imagine if his wife was with them because then you had the baby wife, Joe her to go and then you go ahead. Oh, someone throws a full can. Yeah, take our son. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna hold him and run because I'm about to go kill someone. Yeah, man. Yeah, great. What's up, everybody? By the way, we have another channel. It's mind pump clips. These are your favorite clips of our episodes. Really smart, cool things that we said, short clips, mind pump clips. Anyway, I'm going to give away a free program today. Maps Aesthetic, that's the giveaway. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you do all those things that you win, we'll let you know in the comment section that you got free access to Maps Aesthetic. We also have a sale going on right now on some workout programs and workout program bundles. Check this out. Maps Cardio 50% off. The Shredded Summer Bundle of programs is 50% off. And the Bikini Bundle of programs is also 50% off. If you're interested in any of those, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. But anyway, so back to what I was saying. So my brother-in-law was doing this and he's like, I didn't realize like, obviously you tell somebody something and they have to experience it themselves. Yeah. He's like, dude, he goes, it literally, he goes, I feel like I'm stuffing myself. Yeah. And I'm getting leaner and I'm losing weight. And of course he's getting the benefit of the strength and the recovery in the muscle because he went from 60 grams to, you know, now he's hitting like 150, 160 because 180 is kind of hard for him to hit. And he goes, I'm getting leaner. He goes, this is like the easiest, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I wish somebody would have told you. You know, right? I feel like we've been bringing it up quite a bit on the show, but yeah, they're still like, you have to try it. You have to actually like go through and really actively pursue it each day. Cause like, it's just not going to randomly happen. That's the thing about protein. Like you're not just going to like easily accidentally find like your body weight. No, and here's a big like key. This is what I had to tell him is don't get behind the April. Yeah. Start your day off with 50 grams of protein. Otherwise, good luck. What are you going to do? Eat 100 grams for lunch. That's not going to happen. Start in the morning. So he's like, well, what is that? Like three eggs. I'm like, bro, do the math. That's like 10 eggs. Like Starbucks math. Yeah. I can't eat all that protein. I gave him a few boxes of the magic spoon in the back. I said, all right, do this with whole foods or do a mix. Get you to bowl that. No problem. Yeah. So I said, do a mix. Right. So he's doing like an omelet plus a bowl of magic. Oh, 50 grams of protein. Oh, yeah. And he's like, dude, he goes, it kills my appetite for the other part about that strategy that I love so much is the psychological game too that you kind of play. Right. Is like, I, when I'm targeting protein and, you know, especially when you're first starting back on your diet and you're back on things, you, you're going to have the cravings or the whatever the bad happens you might have had nutritionally. And instead of telling myself, I can't have it. I just go, okay, if, if I still want to, after I hit my protein, I'll have it. And what ends up happening is I get full. And so there's that, there is that like, uh, you're not telling yourself you can't. And so you don't have that rebellious side of like, oh, you, where you have the tendency like a lot of people do to like restrict, restrict, restrict. And then they fuck up and then they banjo. They overdo it. I just go like, okay, yeah, if I really want that ice cream, I'll have it tonight. But first I got to make sure I hit my 200 grams of protein. And then if I still want after that, then I'll enjoy it. And then you've figured this out because you've been doing this for so long. If you work with your behaviors, then you're going to succeed. Yeah. If you work against any of yours to it, so much easier. You're screwed. You can do all the numbers you want. You can write everything down. If it's against your nature, you're going to be white knuckling it and eventually you're going to screw yourself over. So like what you're saying is it's the difference between restricting and adding and both of them result in lower calories. Okay. But one of them does not feel hard. The other one feels like you said, like you need to rebound and a lot of times we'll have one, one thing will happen where you don't even want it cause you're so full or you still kind of have a craving for it and you want it. But because you filled up on the protein, the serving size isn't crazy. Yes. Versus here I am. It's six o'clock at night. I'm behind on protein. I have a little low calories. Maybe I had a dinner or maybe a half hour before or whatever like that. And I'm like, oh man, a bowl of ice cream sounds so good right now and I have and I'm low on protein. I'll go crush a half a pint or a pint of ice cream because I'm so hungry still versus if I go, oh, you know what, if I just go get my protein and take, I hit that, then that fills me up so much that even if I am craving the ice cream or want a treat like that, I don't binge it. I can have a little. I go eat 40 grams of protein steak or eggs or chicken and then go see if you still want that snack. Yeah. It does. You don't. Well, I'm going to interesting kind of conundrum right now because I knew this day was going to come but like my both boys are actually starting to crave protein a lot more. And so there's like little bits of like fight over like the biggest piece of meat and all that and I'm having established, you know, the dad gets the dad. Yeah. Dude, that's that's the dad meat right there. And this is such a dad with two sons conundrum. Like that's not a normal thing. I don't think that Sal's experienced that. I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, it's really just beginning, but I know that this is going to accelerate. And of course, you know, I also feel like, oh, wow, yes, like, you know, they're, they're pursuing, you know, more protein. They're actively trying to start lifting weights and be more physically active and all these things. But I'm also like, like, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to like make sure I get to it first. I'm like, I'm like, first thing like eyeballing it ahead of time just to make sure because like, especially Ethan now because he gets really hungry and he also comes back and he wants like second dinners and I'm like, dude, this is crazy. Dude, this kid's on like a gross spurt right now. I'm pretty convinced. You guys go through milk like crazy. Yeah. Yeah. We do like, we do like, I could say we do like two gallons a week because between me and, and, you know, the boys, it's, it's pretty much just a glass of milk by itself. I could. Yeah. I don't typically do that anymore because that'll like I'm starting to have like a threshold with that and it's mainly cause like I'll do it in the morning and with the coffee and everything. And then I have to kind of, but I used to be able to just put, I would do that. It was kind of a Midwestern thing. I would do like a glass of milk with like each meal. Easy way to throw calories. Like that's a bulk trick. Yeah. That's why I've always been so thick. Yeah. You know, I did that's not what I did. You know, that's, uh, there was a period there where I did a bulk. It was actually one of the more successful and I mean success is determined by a weight game, not in terms of health or anything like that. Cause that's why I think I can't have dairy anymore. There was a period there. I think it was, I want to say sophomore to junior year, like a summer. And then I led the school year with this and then eventually I couldn't do anymore where I would start every morning off and I would have a court of whole milk with breakfast, a whole court. So I'd buy like that, not the gallon, but the kind of senior ones. And I would just pound that with breakfast. And I put on like 13 pounds over the summer. Same. Oh yeah. I bought in full hundred percent with the whole milk advertising and like it was going to build this, you know, muscular body and like good for your bones and all that. Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just drinking gallons. Yeah. Maybe one of the most famous taglines, right? Milk does a body good. Yeah. It's a body good. Smart. Yeah. Can you think of other marketing with food like that that's done that good of a job? The other white meat for pork. Oh, I don't know if I, that one's didn't stick to me. That's funny because they globed on to bullshit science that said that white meat was healthier than red meat. Part of the balance breakfast. We're white. That was mine. Yeah. What was it? Oh, the part of a balanced breakfast. You could just throw any cereal in front of that. Oh dude. Yeah. Serial commercials, I've said this before. And when we were kids, maybe they still do this. They would at the end of the commercial, they'd say part of a balanced breakfast and then they would have this breakfast spread that included yeah, like toast, fruit, orange juice, cereal, and like a pancake or something. It was like, uh, it was like all carbs. All carbs. Yeah. Diabetes is what it should do. We're starting to date ourselves right now. Yesterday, I just, this juice made me think of something that was funny, like somewhat embarrassing. Right. You remember, uh, um, Shannon, who used to do, uh, design for us also as model for some of our programs. I don't know if you've seen her right now. She's like shredded. She just posted a picture with that and I did damn Gina and she's like, who's Gina? I'm like, oh, I forgot. Martin Lawrence is like 90s. She's old enough to know that, but she was like so confused by that. I was like, oh my God. Did I bring that up? What's that movie with Tim Robbins in, in Martin? Oh, I love that. It's like the most hilarious stepping out the fire of the fire and they play that, that song, uh, where he's just like dancing to the whole thing. Like, the scat man. That's it. I mean, does that go back to the, that's pretty old. That's a pretty old, I mean, Martin is like even further back. Right. Nothing to lose. That's 1997. 1997. Wow. Is that what I was doing? I don't even know how old Shannon is, but she's probably not even old enough to have been alive when Martin was going. Maybe she's probably how many years ago was 1997 because someone do the math for me real quick. What is that? 25, 30. What is that 26 years? Hold on a second. Wait, it's 2023 right now. Yeah. She's not even old enough to hold on a second. The year 20. 2049 is as far as 1997. How's that? How fucked up is that sound? Say that. Oh, you're saying how far away it is. The year 2049 as far from us as the year 1997 is. Yeah. Now how do you feel? Horrible. Yeah, considering that I'm having a birthday here another week. All right. It's coming up right now, huh? Yeah. How old are you to be? 72? 71. Don't make me. No, I'm gonna be 58. Oh, shit. Bro, okay. Hold on a second. I'm gonna make sure we do a big 60, dude. Big 60. What do you want to do for your 60? I want to go someplace. Of course. Like what do you want to get? Let's do something crazy. I don't know. Let's go to Europe or something. That sounds super crazy. That doesn't sound crazy. No, come on. I love Europe. Yeah, so what? We gotta do something crazy. Okay, crazy. All right, let me think about it. Like a boy's trip. Hey, you know what we should do? Dive with great white sharks. How about that? Hold on, you know what we should do? You know what we should do? He'll forget about that. Shoot pigs out of hell after a shark. Listen, Tank, this is what we should do. We should hire like people, actors to kidnap. Like he won't even know, right? Kidnap them. Like the game. Yeah, and like hold them hostage. Yeah. You might know. You might know. And then we tie him up and throw him out. Hey, we're all hunting. And then we come and save him. Have you guys ever held me? So my, my girlfriend. I don't know if I like this idea. You guys saved me. My, my girlfriend that we were talking about with this, this part before this part I started that Justin, we were sharing the old bar fight story. Yeah. Her brother was in his teen, when he was 13 was like really rebellious and his parents hired one of those companies. Oh, to take them to like the wilderness? They kidnap him in the middle of the night. They literally did that. Throw him in a van and everything? Yes. They have companies that do that? Yeah, they do. Yes. And they take them, they take them for, I can't tell. No, they don't, they don't like kidnap you, kidnap you. They don't like throw like a hood over your head. They show up in the middle of the night. They say get a backpack full. That's about as much as you could bring. What? You're going with us. And then you're required to go with them. And they take you to like some wilderness thing or whatever. I know a kid that did that and it worked. It worked on this kid. It's like scared straight. Yeah. He's like a, he's a, he's alignment now for PG&E and super successful and good dude. But he went through a really rebellious phase and they, they, I remember when they had me come like he was, let's see here. She's like a good four years younger than me. He's probably, so he's good like eight to 10 years younger than me. And so I'm like in my mid twenties and I remember like he looked up to me and so the parent, they asked me and I was only dating her at that point for maybe a year or less. And they're like, can you talk to him? Yeah. So like, and I, I sat him, I remember sitting down in the room with them and trying to talk some sense. Did you know it was a waste of time? Yeah. I did. Like I remember being like this. I mean, who am I? You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, the kid, maybe he kind of looks up to me with that, but he didn't respect me on that kind of level. No, you know how he's turned his life around because I go in there. So this is how it worked for Mike. So I had clients who did that with their kid. And the reason why it worked was because I'm like, how does this, like, I feel like it would make a kid go the opposite direction. Like what, no, what they did is they took him and they put him in a leadership position with other kids and he was responsible for other kids. He was responsible for, that makes sense. So they developed like responsibility and confidence and that's how he came back. He came back with a new, you know, he found some purpose. Yes. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, he did the same thing. I don't remember all the details of what the camp did, but I know it was like kind of one of those survival ones that give you like very minimal stuff and you got to figure shit out like, I can't remember if it was weeks or a month. You know how long they take them? I don't remember how long they take them. Oh, I think this kid went for like a couple months. I think so too. It's expensive. It is. I remember it was really expensive to get it done. You got to pay money for that. Yeah, it was over $10,000. I don't remember exactly how much it was, but I know it was north of $10,000. Well, now I can threaten that to my boy. That's good to know. Somebody might just take you. I don't see your boys rebelling too much with you. You never know. But you're right. You never know. You never know. I feel like you would smell it by now. I feel like you can kind of sense that early by now. You don't think so? Or do you? I mean, I don't. I don't have any sense of that. He doesn't want to tempt the freaking rebel. Yeah, it's like, I don't want to roll the dice. Well, and I definitely don't see it impossible with Ethan. If it is, anyway, it would be ever. The many you. Yeah. The many you will be the. We talk a lot around that, like, you know, like it. I think really it's just acknowledging like what sucks, you know, and like we talk through that a lot, especially with school. Like, you know, like I didn't like it. Like I didn't like it felt like prison to me, you know, and so I understand like I can empathize with him with some of that stuff. And it's really just like forcing him to do anything. It's just the force part of it. He is so opposing to that. Like it's an immediate like no, you know, it's just, he wants to establish that. Like, look, I'll figure this out. Bro, school is so unnatural. It's so unnatural. It's such a weird artificial learning environment that no wonder there's such a huge percentage of kids that have to be medicated or just don't or just feel like they're not smart. It's like, it's such a, I love learning. You guys, well, all of us do. We're all love learning. We're all very curious. All of us had bad experiences because it was such a, it's just, it's not a great environment. There's a certain type of kid it works for. Yeah. Everybody else that sucks. Yeah. You know, get me out of here. It wasn't for me. Did Peterson talk about that in his talk? By the way, how did you guys enjoy the Ramsey? That was a great experience. Yeah. Unsurprisingly. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not one for like the rally summits and business, but it was, it was great. Great speakers. He has built out of it. He's built himself. You know, you could tell a lot about a leader by the people that work under him, like several layers. And you meet some of these people that these like coaches and people working the event and they're just, just they're good people. Yeah. They're just really good culture. So I, you know, my buddy Chris, who's been on the show and so with that is not a fan of Ramsey. He's always like poking at himself like that. And I just, and I know he's got like a lawsuit that's out right now. There's like a hundred and fifty million dollar lawsuit on Ramsey right now that's out like right now. He's been doing this for how many years? Well, this is like, this is like, I mean, one of the things I've learned since we've done this now, I've been wrong more times than I've been right about somebody's character, especially the bigger and more famous. And that goes both ways too, by the way. There's people who I get excited to meet because I'm like, oh, there's going to be so amazing. And I meet them in their douchebags. Yeah. And then there's people who you hear all this negative stuff about and they're like, oh, I bet they're a piece of shit. And there's not. And then you meet and they're like, oh my God, they're amazing. So, you know, I'm really, I haven't, I haven't spent enough time with Ramsey personal enough to like have my own judgment of who he is as an individual. But from what I perceive of being around an event like that and seeing people that he's impacting, real hard for me to cast a lot of negative judgment on somebody that's beloved by that many people and like, it reminds me like on a grander scale when we have the events for our people, when we have people come, it always humbles me of like, wow, what good we're doing out there with helping people. That's how I felt when I was at his event. I felt like these people were just. And the people who work for him. Yeah, genuinely. They were helped. Yeah, it was from listeners. It's a listeners who say they were defrauded by a timeshare exit company that he promoted. Yeah. So he, so he promoted this over the course of five years. I think he made like 30 million or something like that. I think it was six years. 30 million over six years over advertising this thing. And then, you know, obviously it probably went under, didn't do well. How long has this guy been on radio? 30 years. He's been talking about stuff forever. I mean, not only that, and the thing that the point that I was making with my buddy Chris is just like, you know, 30 million sounds like a lot of money when you think of Ramsey as an individual, but he didn't put 30 million in his pocket. Well, the guy has a thousand employees. Now divide that number by a thousand now. And then, okay. So his business represented this company that ended up, you know, whatever. And I'm not defending him because I don't know enough about this subject. It's also facing a lawsuit. We don't know what the, I don't think there's any results of it. Yeah, no. It's real similar to all the stuff I see. I see a bunch of stuff going on. Well, look, I had an incredible experience. The people, the environment, the energy in there was so, like everything about it was like, don't worry about other people. What can you do about yourself? Turn off negative information. It was about building businesses through working with your employees and working with their character and developing good character yourself. There was a lot of like pro family, pro like spend time with your loved ones talk. It wasn't like those places that you, you know, this is how you make money. You know, just, you know, put your head in the sand and grind, you know, forget everybody else. This was a very balanced, great message that they Except for for one speaker. And I have to say this because I was wrong. Right. I definitely, I kind of chirped itself because we're like, I don't know, we're about 10 minutes into a Malcolm Gladwell. Yeah. And Sal right away gets like turned off. Oh, that fucking Marxist socialist idea. So I kind of grumble something like that. And I'm like, bro, how are you going to, how are you going to make that? I can smell it right away. I kind of chirp out of it. I'm like, how are you going to make that assumption right? A guy barely talked and it could mean this and like kind of giving the dude the benefit of the doubt on the conversation. And the further and deeper he went into this conversation. And it was a really intelligent type of argument that he was building for to make a case. And so it pulled you in. It pulled you in and I'm listening to it. And I'm like, oh, that's an interesting perspective to look at things that way. And Sal already is like shut down. He's just like, no, this is fucking stupid. I'm like, bro, hang tight. But then as it unfolded, I totally figured I saw what Sal was talking about. And when it really revealed itself that I thought was hilarious was here you have this entrepreneurship side of it. I mean, and these people, most of these people paid big money to be at this event. Right. You don't have like want to be entrepreneurs. Almost everybody in that room was already successful. Yeah. And their levels of success. Like you were already, you already had a solid business. Some people had huge businesses. And some of these speakers Ramsey set it up to where you could ask them live questions afterwards. And it was comical how revealing it was, how little Malcolm Gladwell knew about building a business when people started to come up and actually ask him real tactical questions. Actionable things they could do. And he got, he would get philosophical with his answer every time and talking circles and never had like, and I remember leading over and being like, oh my God, I have something. I would have sold that person easily. That would have helped that person out. Oh my God, I have something that I've done in my business that would have helped that person. Like there was lots of low hanging fruit to give advice to these entrepreneurs. And he just couldn't give them anything. The people who are like, it's everybody else's fault. The Marxist undertone that you're talking about. So I don't think he's not a Marxist, but it's that undertone. It's that energy. I can hear it in the way he's explaining certain things. And it's this negative blame everybody else. This is how we fix things by taking the top down type of stuff. And I know I could smell it. And what it comes from, people who postulate, they don't act. They're not in the real world. They just sit. They're not in their arena. No. It's a conundrum for a lot of professors in academia. That's what it sounded like. It felt like I was in a lecture in college from a very intelligent professor. They've never actually built something. And then when the rubber met the road and people started asking like, all right, well what I do then, if you're telling me my business is more like a soccer team and I should be more like this. Do you remember what he said about this? This guy, somebody piped up about, I don't remember what it was. I think it was a school district. And they were talking about how some teachers just aren't performing. And so what do we do? Like do we pay them less or whatever? Maybe we got to get rid of them. And he's like, no, no, no. You really shouldn't fire teachers because it brings down the morale of all the teachers. I'm like, what? What? Yeah, you got a real bad seed. You know why? Because that's him. He's in that space. That's how they talk. By the way, you guys know that the history of academia hating business people and capitalist or whatever you want to call it, merchants, it goes back way, way, way, way back. Because academia in the day, they held the power. They were the ones that could read. Nobody else can read. They were the ones that could tell you what was in the books and the Bible and whatever. And so they gave you the information and they were exalted as these super beings. And then markets opened up and you had merchants who were trading and were, you know, quote unquote stupid. They didn't read. They didn't know it was in the books, but they were building success and wealth and respect. And the academics hated that. They're like, we know things. We know everything. They don't know anything. And it's just where it comes from. It's like the business teacher who's never started a business. You ever listen to a business teacher? I mean, that's what he sounded like. He sounded like he's up here talking to a bunch of, you know, entrepreneurs and his speech was all, he basically put every business in two buckets. You're either a basketball team or a soccer team. Yeah. Right? Like every business is falls in this category and that we're moving away from this, you know, hero ball, two or three superstars that carry it. It's all about bringing the weakest pay for your high performers versus like, yeah, trying to just put all the money into the lower performance. Yeah. So it's all about us moving in this direction as a society towards everyone having a soccer team. And so you could, it was, and what I didn't, wasn't sure about was how many of these entrepreneurs were trolling him or how many of them actually were like baffled by the top that they want. They actually wanted good answers. I don't know what their motives were, but it was hilarious to watch them come up and be like, okay. You could feel the energy. I'm hearing what you're saying. So my, so we are more like a basketball team and if I want to move to a song, so should I do this with my staff or should I fire this person or should I pay they less or should I pay like, and you could just hear him go, just didn't have an answer for anything. Not one person that came up there, did he give like a solid answer to him. It's like, wow, how, how obvious was that now? And then that was the only speaker that was like that. Everybody else was. Everybody else was like killer busy. And then all the answers those, those guys had and girls had in their, in their live Q and A part was like, now you could tell the difference of someone who's literally built multiple businesses and can actually give these people good advice. Yeah, totally. Super. I gotta tell, I gotta say, I gotta say something nice about John DeLoni. What he's such a great human being. So this is a personal source. So he's up on stage and he's talking about like, you know, anxiety and how to deal with it, how to stay present. He's talking about his own struggles. And as he's talking, like everything he's saying is resonating. Like I'm listening to this man. I'm like, oh God, that's me, dude. Like everything he's saying, like that's me, that's me. And I'm struggling with certain personal things at the moment. And I'm like, God, I, you know, there's just some stuff is just so hard for me. So I texted him and I said, bro, I said, what a great speech. There's so much resonated immediately 30 seconds later. Hey, come back to the green room. Come hang out with me. So I'm like, what? So I go back there. And remember this is a huge event. So people like John DeLoni is a big piece of it. It's a huge event. They got lots of stuff going on. The guy takes, I don't know how long he spent with me, 45 minutes and literally sits down and gives me a, it's just what he does, right? He does therapy, right? Yeah. He sits down, spends one-on-one time with me and just, we just go through shit. And it was just like, man, what a great human being. What a nice, yeah, just genuine person. But it's funny, he said something. He goes, he goes, he goes, do you feel like you have like a nuclear reactor? And I'm like, what? And he goes, the closer people get, the more, the more you poison them with it. Like, yeah, dude, I don't let anybody close. He goes, yeah, that's me too. Like, oh shit. So he's like giving me tips and stuff. So anyway, what a great guy. He came up and visited Justin and I in our room on this first or second night, I don't remember what night it was, and shared his experience with the meeting us for the first time. Oh, really? Yeah, it was cool just to hear him, because we were just talking about, we were gossiping, we were talking about other people, right? All these other, you know, famous people that we've been interacted with and mad and just how many times we've been let down by people we were so excited to meet. He was actually talking about how amazing Jordan Peterson was. Oh. So he said that Jordan Peterson blew his mind on like how connected he felt to him when they met in person. He goes, man, someone like that, who everyone's fighting for his attention. I think there's all these walls and he's going to be standoffish. Yeah, he says, he's the opposite. He looks like into your soul when he talks to you, because it almost feels uncomfortable because, yeah, because how much he is listening attentively to you, what you have to say and what's going on with it. Man. And then when he responds, he says he feels so empathetic and caring. He's like, just an un... He said it blew his mind on how he was, but it started with that conversation and then led into like the connection that we had the first time. He's like, I knew as soon as I walked in the room with you guys that we were all going to be friends. He's like, you could just tell that we were cut from the same cloth. I'm like, yeah, I think we all felt the same way too. I said, it's just rare. I said, you don't... It is. It's rare to meet really good people anyway, especially in media. You don't meet like a lot of really, really genuine good... They appear to be and then you meet them in person. Well, most people are actors. That's what I mean. Most of them are really good actors and have done a good job of whatever persona they are trying to project. And they've gotten good at their craft and a lot of people get sucked into it. And I'm just as guilty of getting sucked into a persona and who I think is going to be a persona, which is why I reserve judgment. Like I told Chris, I'm like, listen, man, I haven't spent enough one-on-one time with someone like Ramsey to even cast the judgment because I've already been wrong enough times and I've learned my lesson of speaking out of turn and being like, oh, this guy's a douche or oh, this guy's amazing. And then you meet them and they're always, almost always the opposite. And from what I saw from that event, I mean, I really got... The people he surrounds himself for amazing. Yeah, right? Like every person we interacted with that worked for that business... What was the name of the speaker, the Irish immigrant guy? Brian. Brian Bafini. Was it Bafini? Yeah, Brian. Oh, my... Fire. He comes out and he talks about... He was so poor in Ireland, comes to America. Let's talk about immigrants. Yeah, about immigrant, the immigrant advantage. In fact, I took notes on like the advantages that immigrants have. But anyways, he's talking. I'm going to see if I can find it. As he's talking, I... It's resonating so strongly because that's how... That's my family. Like he grew up in a... What do you say? 700 square foot? 10 people? 10 people, one bathroom. Bro, it was my dad. In fact, my dad, the first time he had, didn't even have a bathroom. They had to go in an outhouse. And then when he grew up... We all sleep like a staggered... Yes. So he's telling this, you know... All to be in this country too. Yes. Yes. Oh, there was a statistic. I'm going to find it. This is what he said. And I confirmed it. It's a very interesting statistic. And it's... What was the success rate of entrepreneurs that were immigrants? So check this out. Immigrants that come to America are two to five times more likely to succeed than their same ethnicity or color American-born counterparts. In other words, if you are an immigrant from Brazil, you do better than someone who's Brazilian, but born and raised... If you're Mexican, if you're Italian, if you're Irish, if you're African, whatever, you're two to five times to be more successful as an immigrant. Think about the... And the disadvantages of that... Yes. Think of the irony and the challenges of that. Imagine us going to a country where you don't speak the language... You don't have connections. ...and thinking that you're five times more likely to be successful than people that were born there. I would never go in with that assumption. No. So that's so counter to what you would think. I know some people are going like, well, of course, they have work ethic or they're just like, dude, think about that for a second. You're going to a place. You have no connections. I'm talking about privilege versus not privilege. Right. You have no connection for a massive disadvantage. Yes. Yet you're five times more likely to be successful. What is it? It says a lot about mindset. It says everything. It says a lot about mindset. And again, they're comparing same ethnicity, same color, because people are like, well, you know, racism, no, no, no. You take someone from a country and you compare them to the person who has that same ethnicity, but is now two or three generations here, and they're two to five times more likely to be successful. It's the attitude. It's knowing what you got. Right. It's... That drive. It's the opportunity that you realize and that you recognize. The gratitude. And the gratitude, it's just... It's unbelievable statistic. You can't lie. That data doesn't lie. Right? So anyway, do you guys have a powerful speech? Do you feel like in your family? Because, I mean, you're such a great example of this with your dad and then what all of you and your siblings have done and stuff like that. Do you... And maybe you do this for your family, because my fear, if I'm you or I'm even in my situation, is that, you know, as the generations get out, right, and they're born into wealth, that they lose that spirit, right? That immigrant spirit of do anything at any cost to make it happen. Do you think there's things that either one you already currently do as a family to embody that, or do you think about that like, you know, how can I remind my children and my children's children of what they came from and stuff like that? Do you think about that? Yeah. I mean, we talk about it a lot. It's just, I don't know, it's a hard thing to put your finger on, right? I think I saw my parents, they didn't preach to me. It's not like they sat down and preached to me what you got to do. I just, it was all just through action. Just modeled, yeah. Yeah, they were very honest. They didn't spend money on things that they didn't need. It wasn't a conversation, like I said. They worked very hard. My dad would take me to work with him in the summers, or if I didn't have school and I just witnessed how he was with his customers, the type of pride he put into his work, my mom, same thing. So I just saw it all. And then when I would hear stories as a kid, you don't know what to make of it until you get older. Like my dad would always tell me, oh, I shared a bed with, you know, four of my siblings and we lived in this tiny little thing. You hear it as a kid. It's because you would hear it all the time. You're like, whatever. Then you get older and like, wait a minute. You were 18 years old and you slept in, they had two twin beds that they put together. My grandma would put a sheet over it to hold it together. And him and his siblings would sleep like foot, head, foot, head, foot, so they could all fit. Like this is an 18 year old kid working, giving money to his mom. Like at that point, right? They didn't even have a phone at the time. In fact, I remember my parents, when my parents moved here or they got married, in order to get on the phone with my grandma, they had to call a neighbor and say, hey, can you get my mom to come over? I'll call back in 30 minutes. And then they call back and then they could talk. Cause they didn't have a phone. Cause it was too expensive. Yeah. I feel like there would be tremendous value in organizing a, I don't know. I think you should have your kids volunteer. That's why I keep bringing them up. I know. I think that's, you've already said that before. I think that's a good story. But even like having your, I don't know if you guys have photos and having like a slideshow with the kid. I feel like you have a boy right now is turning, getting ready to turn 18 years old. And what a valuable piece of heritage that you have to share with him. You know what's going on in your grandpa's time? Well, he was doing right now at your age. Like this is what it, and painting that picture and maybe not so much coming from you, but coming from him and then like discussing that and talking that. I just, I know Jordan Peterson says, don't do for your kids what they can do themselves. This, I think I'm not super good at. He says, by the way, he says that's the most crippling thing you can do. He says the most crippling thing you could do for your kids is to do things they can do for themselves. Yup. Yup. Yup. And I wasn't always definitely good at that. That's something I had to work on because you just want to take care of your kid. Yeah. But you don't, they don't build confidence or resilience or responsibility or respect. They don't respect things, you know, that way. Well, especially when they have more things, when it's different, like if it's you doing things for your kid when you have nothing, but then as you start to have abundance and you do a lot of things for them, it's probably even worse than it is in the situation like what you're, you ever seen, you know, I had some friends that were really wealthy growing up and their parents would like buy them whatever. And I remember the way they would treat their stuff. Yeah. Like I remember being like, dude, you got, you got like the newest Nintendo. You got all the games and they just like leave the games out and give a shit or whatever. You know, they got this new car for their 16th birthday. Smash their bike like immediately. Yeah. Throw it, throw their bike on the ground. I'm like, what are you doing? Like it's because it wasn't like valuable to them, you know, versus like, like I bought my first, you know, car. It was a piece of crap, but you better believe I watched that thing every weekend and made sure I could. Dude, I was so, you know, that reminds me like so, it was such a big deal for me. My grandma would, I don't know, every probably six months or so, buy me a pair of like nice, like basketball shoes. And this was the era of the Jordans coming up. And so sneakers were now getting in that hundred. A hundred dollars for sneakers was like, back then that was like 10 million. Yeah, it was insane. And so I would wear, I won. I would only wear my shoes on the court and then off the court, they would get all in my bag. And then when they came home, I wouldn't even put them on the floor in my room. I put them up on like a shelf, you know, and I would clean them every day. Did you wipe them? Oh yes, bro. Every day clean them. They stack them. It's like their own little altar. It's, yeah, dude. It was, it's wild to think that, you know, when that, when, you know, coming from at that age, like that was such a big deal. And you're right. Like I had friends that were rich kids that had, you know, 50 pair and same thing had Nintendo games. They're laying out all over the place. I can't find it. It's missing. It's like, I can find my three. I don't remember. Organize, put away, clean the same place. It's in a frame on the wall. Yeah. Yeah. No, my, my, my son's friends think I'm, I sell meth. So there's, Oh yeah. Right. So, yeah. You're the best dealer that I need. That hasn't permeated. You have to play with that. I have. I could do like a lab coat and just some goggles and every once in a while you walk out. You pick the kids up from school like that. I'll just rent like an RV and just have like smoke coming out of it. And yeah, no, I actually ran past that kid. Like when I was picking up Ethan at school, it was funny cause it was just like, I was like, Hey man. Hey, tell your dad to call me. He owes me something. That's right. Yeah. I'm here. He has called me for his orders. Yeah. Dude, how cool was the, the hotel that we stayed in? The Gaylord? Is that, that was the name of it, right? Gaylord. Opryland. Opryland. So there's multiple of those. I didn't. First of all, it's not a hotel. It's a resort. Yeah. It's a resort. It is crazy. I've never been. Under a dome. I've never been in anything like that before. No. There's a water park, arcades, there's Shaw. It feels like a combination of like a Vegas casino without the gambling, like when they do all the displays. Exactly. Like Disneyland or something. I don't know. It was, it was insane. So I'm, I really want to go back for Christmas because I hear Christmas is insane in there. Supposedly they spend like months preparing and decorating the entire place, like Christmas theme. How cool would the kids to be there if it's like, like all Christmas. So cool. It was already lit up kind of cool. I can't imagine if they go all out for Christmas. What a cool experience. Dude, it was cool for me. Do you guys see all the Mennonites walking around? Yeah. I've never seen like in person Mennonites. Yeah. I don't, I don't think I have. There were dudes walking around. They had the haircut and the overalls and the moms with all the kids and they were all dressed in a particular way. Yeah. But I can't, the kids look so cute. There's a little boy walking around with the overalls and everything with the haircuts. Now, do you know, Doug, or do you, and if you guys know like the difference of, of like, like the, like Mennonites and then what, what would they fall under? Like a type of Christianity? Christianity. Christianity. Christianity. And so, and like, they're not as, they're not from what I read on Wikipedia. So if I get this wrong, sorry. Cause when I saw so many of them, I was like really interested. I'm like, how do they live? What's going on? I said, hi to a lot of them. I thought it was so interesting. And they're not like Amish in the sense that they're not limited to an era of technology, but they do limit their use of technology. So they can still use phones and stuff, but they're much stricter than like the average person. So it is similar to Amish, but it's without as much restrictions. Yeah. Amish is a whole another level with that kind of stuff. But then from what I read, I wonder if it's like comparing like a Catholic to like a New Age Christian. Maybe. Cause they're both, they're both following from, you know, the same book, the same book, but then they've, you know, like someone who would be like a New Age Christian today versus a Catholic. But there's like strict like, like marriage rules, like fundamental, like how you behave type of rules. And this is again, this is Wikipedia. So I don't know, but yeah. How big is the, is the community in comparison to Amish? Do you know, like if it's like similar in size. I know that there's different, there's different Mennonite groups. And like, are you, is it more likely that you, like we're coming like, is it someone who was maybe Amish and then they broke up, they broke off and then they do something like. No, I think that the, their, their leader's name was Meno or something like that. So they're Meno Knights from this particular guy that broke off from the, some traditional Christian side. Oh. Again, this is Wikipedia. Yeah, I know. I have, I don't know anything about that sect of Christian. I mean, I'm just curious too. Like it's not like, I mean, you know what's funny? Isaac, when I was younger, I used to scoff at all religion. Okay. This is why I became an atheist a long time ago. Not anymore, but this is what I was. And when I would see someone be that quote unquote extreme, I used to think, Oh, how stupid, how oppressed, you know, terrible. Now as an adult, seeing how the world is and all the insanity and craziness that's going on, there's a big piece of me that's like, I think they might have figured some stuff out. There's a lot less chaos. You know, they're all in kind of like standardized uniform clothes. I almost understand while you have to create structure community. There's a lot tighter community feel. Yeah. Like you have to create so much structure in a world that gives you everything, everything you want. Like of course you're going to have to do. I mean, look at fitness and nutrition. You got to create all the structure around it because otherwise you eat whatever you want, you never move. So they just did it with everything else. So that's why part of me is like, I mean, it's a good analogy actually to tie it back to that because we are in it. We are in it. Bro, the haircut. I want you to do the haircut. The haircut. Please. The beard. Can you put like a little thing? Okay, awesome. The beard that just went down. Oh my God. The bucket handle beard. All that. It goes down like this. Yeah, I don't know. Good times. Did you find any information, Doug? Yeah. So they actually have a common heritage. It's called Anabaptus. But they've been separate groups since 1693. Wow. And they migrated separately to North America but often settled in the same areas. And I think there's about a million Mennonites right now. A million. Yeah. So it broke off a lot of them right there. Anabaptus. I don't know what that means exactly. Maybe some type of obviously related to Baptist. You guys ever play Super Smash Bros.? Yeah. Doesn't it sound like a character there? Mennonite. So exactly like that. Stupid. You know what's funny about this though? People, again, secular people who scoff at this kind of stuff, we are so arrogant to think that we're so smart and we know everything that, look, if something's lasted hundreds of years and there's a million people that follow it, it's not because they're forced. They're in America. They're not forced. And now I know the whole like community and if you grow up in it, you don't want to leave your community type of deal. Fine. But there's some value there that you can't ignore. There's something there that they find valuable. Well, look at the Amish have that, what's that, what do they call it? Oh, they leave? Yeah, they get to leave and go for it. They almost all do. Rapspringer or something like that? Yeah, this percentage of the ones that return. Something like that. I mean, I find that really interesting, right? Yeah. They build this community, they family, they have all these strict rules and principles that they live their lives by and one might, outside looking and go, oh, it's so oppressive. And then they get to age where the, probably the parents agree. I don't know what age that is. 18, right? And then this is, okay, you're adult. Yeah, go do whatever you want. Go experience world. And they go crazy, right? They go absolutely insane for that, whatever time period it is. But I think the percentage of them that come back to the community and culture is high. What does that say to you? Well, like I said, like, first of all, depression, anxiety, very low in these communities, illness across the board, physical illness, very low. They live longer. So I don't know. And you look at, I bet you they've done a rating, happiness scores too. High, right? Yeah, very high. If you look at like, some of the other testing that they do when it comes to, like I said, depression is better, anxiety is better, physical illness tends to be better. Oh, that's what I was going to say. When you look at cultures with stricter marriage guidelines, like a range marriage or whatever, they tend to be happier, divorce rates are a lot lower. And people like, yeah, but don't you want to date more people, move in with people, you know, test people out before whatever? These dating apps are showing that actually is not the case. Less people are satisfied with these dating apps. They're less likely to be in these committed relationships and find, you know, that value or whatever. So like I said, I don't know if that's the answer, but there's some value there. Yeah. If it's lasted that long. Do you think that and something you can extract from it for sure? Yeah. Do you think those implode in our time? Do you think we're going to see like, like this, like right now we're in the heart of like the, the middle of this like trend on the dating apps, because more and more the, it started off with all this positive research, right? Oh, two in every four relationships, you know, yeah, whatever the number is, right? And then all this positive stuff of, oh, so many people get married from these things. And like now that they've been around for long enough, we're seeing this, the level of dissatisfaction, dissatisfaction, dissatisfaction. Thank you. I couldn't find that today. No problem. So, you know, we're seeing that now come out. And so are we going to start to see people go, oh man, this isn't the way to do it. Here's what I predict. I predict you're going to see the rise in stricter disciplines. So as a reaction. So you've got this like extreme variety freedom just across the board, which I think is going to cause a reaction of more and more people to be like, no, I'm going to be in this discipline that has these guidelines and these rules because I need it in this world. Now, based on that, wouldn't you assume that people getting flip phones right now, wouldn't you see that? Yeah, I know that. I mean, no FAP, all those things are like an example of what you're saying. The flip phone movement's cool. But wouldn't that be an example though? I mean, shouldn't we see a rise though in religion though based off that? Because we've seen that right? Like in terms of the Latin version of Catholicism, it's like up, it's up like substantially. People go into mass to just like, and then you can't even understand what they're saying. Latin mass. Yeah, Latin mass. So yeah, I would like to see you. I like to see, because when I read Ijen, which I don't know how many years that book is now, it's probably a good five, six years old now. The stats on that was the opposite, that there's been a massive decline in religion for a while now. Well, you're seeing a rise in disciplines like people are doing, OCR races, cold baths, like all these extreme things to try to create discipline and structure. So I think religion is going to follow. That's my opinion. I think you're going to, I don't know if it's going to be like this huge awakening. But I think you're going to see. The speed of the awakening. Did you watch, did you, I know you watched, you brought it up. Did you watch the Jesus revolution? I haven't watched it yet. I did, I watched it. It was good, huh? Very good, actually. It was really, really good. The historical stuff of the Time magazine and then like them listing this as like one of the biggest revolutions ever historically, like that we've ever had any sort of documentation around. I thought that was really fascinating. I caught myself choked up multiple times. Just me too. Me too. I was on the plane, like fighting back tears. I was like, I don't know. Why is this getting me? I'll tell you the one scene that got me the most, right? There was this, so just for people to know, it's basically like this church that's kind of struggling to get more people. And this hippie dude shows up and he's like preaching. And at the time that was the counter revolution, right? So this, this preacher lets him in and a lot of the people in the congregation didn't like him because he was bringing all these hippies in. They're dirty. They're, you know, they're kind of weird. They're all ex-creatic. Is this where that whole Jesus freak movement came from? And so there's a scene where they take the lead pastor aside, the people who are part of the original congregation and they're like, we can't keep having these dirty hippies coming in and they're complaining. Like they're getting the rug, the new carpet's all dirty with their dirty bare feet or whatever. So the next day they all walk up and there's this huge line of these hippies, right? That are all kind of trying to come in and follow and the dude is sitting at the door washing everybody's feet. And I was like, oh. Yeah, that got me. Yeah, there was a lot of, I mean, even if you're like, again, I don't, if you can be completely atheist and enjoy that. I thought that the acting was done really well. I also thought it did a really good job of even showing how, you know, and this is what I think when I was growing up, the challenge that I had with, you know, feeling like I was indoctrinated with religion as a young kid and then getting older and wiser and seeing, and then seeing the hypocrisy and seeing also to the, you know, that humans, men are flawed and are power-driven, ego-driven and that you saw. That follows you anywhere. Yeah, and it doesn't matter where you're at and you see that kind of happen with that guy. Like it has this kind of pure source and a pure message and a pure at the very beginning and then over time as the, as the fame grows and the notoriety grows and the attention grows, you can see the ego grow within the person who is now, you know, originally saying that this is all for God or through God evolve and happen. And so I thought they did a really good job of thinking like, it wasn't like this one angle of I'm going to tell this story. C.S. Lewis's book, Screwtape Letter, is really good, right? It's a fictional story of like these devils talking about how they can influence people. And in one segment they talk about how this guy, like this little demon guy, his guy, oh, he's going to church. What am I going to do? And then his uncle who's like this really experienced guy says, just make sure you point out to him how the people go into the church with him are not perfect. Make sure you point out how that guy over there is a gambler is kind of not paying attention. So it's like that's that's part of the game, right? It's like, it's like fitness. It's like, you get into fitness, you follow fitness people and then you realize they're not perfect. They're not perfect fitness people. Oh, true fitness. Well, that's not what it's all about, right? We're all, yeah, we're all people, dude. We're all flawed. Like, we've said this before the fitness industry is full of body image issues and poor health practices. So it's like anything else, right? I remember training lots of clients like that that got turned off by the fitness space because they found out some, you know, fitness body that they follow. Cheeseburgers or something. Yeah, or does drugs or is this or that. And it's like, and then also they just discredit the entire idea and space and it's like, oh, then there are other narcissistic. As if they're angels, they're people. Yeah. Yeah, no, I've definitely seen that. No, 100%. Hey, I want to bring up a, take a little left turn. I'm going to bring up a study on beet root powder or beet root juice. Let me pull it up here real quick for you guys. So I've brought this up before. There's a compound in beet root powder or juice or beet root juice that's called, that are called nitrates. And these nitrates have been shown to increase things like stamina endurance actually quite effectively. Well, there's a new study that was, this was published this year that shows that ingesting nitrates from beet root powder. So dietary nitrates also increases muscle force, seven to 10%. So it's not just stamina and endurance. It's also strength. Increases your strength. Also increases strength. So this is a popular endurance supplement right now. But it's making the case that this is also good for strength training that you could take something like this. Now it's all, so I remember when products like it'll explode and I forget what some of the brand names of the other. So those are trying to increase nitric oxide. Nitrates actually do it in a big way. So that's what I was going to ask you was, so I remember when those hit the scene, but I don't think those were based off of beet root. So those, those were using it maybe other formulas. Organine, citrulline, stuff like that. Stuff like that combined to, and back then it was in theory. In theory, if you took this stuff, we believed it would increase the nitric oxide in your blood, right? So, but over time as all this stuff is washed out, we've found that beet root juice is the most effective way to do that. Yeah, so like, you can either drink it. Ooh, that's gross. Do you like beets? No, I've had, I had this chocolate cake that somebody put it in before. Why? I don't know why. It tasted like chocolate cake with dirt. No, I had, what's that one like healthy replacement for chocolate? Doug, back in the day people... Oh, I know you're talking about, I can't think of it offhand. Oh, God. It was like a 70s, 80s thing. Like, well, it's not chocolate, it's... Nutella? No. It's good. Just as old cheese nachos? That's not the same cake. I love cheese nachos. It starts with a C. No, carob. No, I never even heard that. I had this friend that his mom was like super crunchy hippie or whatever, and we had a carob cake. What? It was a replacement for chocolate. Yeah, it's a very poor substitute. It's not chocolate. I don't know why they, because it has the same color. I don't know, it's disgusting. It doesn't even taste like it? I remember eating it, yeah. It was a big thing there for a while. It was, disgusting. Anyway, you could either drink beetroot juice, that's one of the bases of the powder. I like the way that tastes. Plus it's got the rhodiolo, which is an adaptogen. So it's a good pre-workout that's non-stimulant based that now studies are showing will increase not just stamina and endurance, but strength as well. And you should get a better pump, right? Yes. Getting a better pump on it and strength increase. No, it's a solid. For sure, if somebody who does not use caffeine, to me, I think one of the most ideal supplements that you can mess with. All right, let's do our shout-out. I already brought him up, Doug. Can we just do hit the shout-out with Brian? Let's do Brian. So Brian Bafini. He's a hilarious, great storyteller. He became very successful from nothing. He has a podcast too, you know that? He does. What's his podcast called? The Good Life? The Good Life. So check it out. Is that his Instagram handle, Doug? Check it out. You're having trouble falling asleep? Is your sleep quality not great? Want to have improved recovery? Better growth hormone levels while you're sleep? Better muscle gains and fat loss? Better discipline because you got better sleep? Well, check out this company. It's called Sleep Breakthrough. It's a pre-bed drink that combines the power of magnesium with other natural ingredients like valerian root. So it'll help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer and wake up feeling fresh. Go check them out. Go to sleepbreakthrough.com forward slash mind pump. Use the promo code mindpump10 for a discount. All right, back to the show. All right, first caller is Brianna from Arizona. Hey Brianna, how can we help you? Hi guys. Good morning. How are you? Thank you so very much for having me on your show today. I just have to set up by saying how huge of a fan I am of you guys. I listen to the show every single day, multiple times a day, at work, at the gym, in the car, and I'm always recommending it to everybody I talk to pretty much. You're excited to be here today. And thank you for all the awesome information you guys are putting out there. Really enjoy all of your guys' perspectives on things fitness and non-fitness related. Beautiful, sweet. Thank you. How can we help you? Okay, so my question, I actually have three questions and one of them, the main one, has a couple branch off questions. So, I have a very severe imbalance in my upper body and my back and my shoulder and it comes from the work that I do. So I work at Trader Joe's and I'm a stalker of course so I'm stalking stuff all day long using my dominant right side of course. And so therefore, and I'm not sure if you've seen the picture that I've sent in or not, but definitely have a pretty striking imbalance on my right side and the picture that I sent to shows me about a year ago and then from about a week ago. So I think that what I'm seeing is that I have made some improvement over the last year but I'm kind of wondering from your guys' perspectives a couple things. A, like what muscles are involved here in this imbalance and then B, like from your guys' perspective is the imbalance still pretty severe or have I made sort of enough progress to where I can start doing bilateral movement again because I would say I do unilateral movement probably about 75% of the time but my goals are mostly strength goals. So I really want to get stronger at like say a shoulder or overhead shoulder press and right now I feel like I shouldn't be doing a whole lot of bilateral stuff on my upper body because of the imbalance. Okay, let me ask you a couple questions, Brianna. So the imbalance, is this something you noticed visually or did you notice pain and dysfunction in your body because you can have a visual, what appears to be a visual imbalance but it not really affect necessarily movement and function and then you can have an imbalance where you've got pain and it's affecting your ability to do exercises in particular movement. So where do you fall on that? Yeah, actually that's a great question. I was going to bring that up. It's only visual so I had no idea there was an imbalance until I took a picture of my back one day and saw it and I was like startled by it but I also was very weirded out by the fact that I don't feel like I have a strength imbalance like whatsoever. If anything I feel like the strength imbalance could be more on my on my, but not dominant side. So on my left side I feel like that could be slightly stronger than the side that's actually overdeveloped. Okay, good. So that's actually a good place to be. So if there was pain, movement dysfunction this would be much more of a concern. We have to go more corrective, yeah. When it's visual not that it's not a big deal because if it's like a big big, because I'm looking at you right now, like if I just saw you walking around I wouldn't necessarily. She's already made good progress too. Yeah, you've made some progress. It's not like it's like this big big deal where I saw you on the street and be like, oh my god what's going on. I'd have to really look at what's going on. You could also just be holding one side a little differently so it might not be a muscular development imbalance, but rather how your body is comfortable and how it holds itself. So what I would do with a client like you is if I saw something like this, of course, assess movement. That's the first thing I do. See if I notice any strength imbalances or stability imbalances and then I'd have them get a really good deep tissue massage and I'd look at them again. Because sometimes what happens is one side is being held a little bit differently and the deep tissue massage tends to tell the body to relax. And then you notice that the imbalance, the visual imbalance tends to kind of disappear. So you're saying you don't notice a strength or pain imbalance. You're already making some progress. I think what you're doing is good. I think you're kind of on the right track and I wouldn't worry too much about it unless it's affecting movement and causing pain and you're noticing things with your exercises and your workouts where there's a big difference. So the one thing I would add to that is because it isn't causing any sort of pain or discomfort so there isn't this crazy urgency but just because you're aware of it now the shoulder is slightly elevated and retracted just a bit. It's rolled up and forward a little bit. So whenever you do exercises being mindful of retracting and depressing the shoulders, that will help plus doing unilateral work plus working towards but if I have a client who's not a major strength discrepancy, there's no pain going on I'm seeing progress while she's I'm not going to worry too much but I'm just going to continue to remind her as we're doing exercises like a C de Roe I'm going to see that you're naturally going to be elevated on one side. I'm going to say oh depress that shoulder down pull the shoulder blades back and down in the pockets and I'm going to make cues like that and just you becoming more and more aware of it as you do exercises as you're moving throughout your day is going to probably continue to improve this. I mean it really it's just about adding in some of those drills and mobility drills that you've been doing that have brought you a little bit more balance into your workouts. You start going more bilateral you prime every time ahead of time and you're just cognizant of that like you have that little bit of a shift asymmetry there but obviously we don't want to exaggerate it but it's not inhibiting you or like limiting you in any way but to be able to kind of like just take that time ahead of time or just do things like posture walks so you're just consciously kind of making that effort of like trying to make sure that everything's bracing properly and you're in good postural position so you can distribute force well because you don't want to be in a position where you know you have that asymmetry and you're now adding a lot of load that you're going to start kind of building compensations towards so if you address it right away and you kind of work out and train it'll help kind of reiterate more of the better patterns because I'm looking at the after picture I can see some improvement but if I was standing there while you took that picture I would make sure that your positioning was the same on both sides because it looks like if I made your left side match your right side in terms of positioning I don't know if we would notice now I can't say that for sure but I don't know if I would notice a difference because the difference appears to be the way you're holding yourself now that doesn't mean there isn't a difference that means it's a difference in how you're holding yourself when you're relaxed but it doesn't necessarily mean there's a development difference or a hypertrophy difference so have you had a deep tissue massage I imagine that would play play a big factor yeah and that's interesting that you say that too because my right side my right like shoulder I actually have to ask my husband like probably twice a week to like immediately deep tissue massage me because the pain will kind of build up just a lot of like lactic acid and stuff but the last time I had a deep tissue massage was probably about a year and a half ago okay so you could do you could get like a lacrosse ball or you could use like the corner of a door or you could have your husband work on those areas just to kind of relax them because what happens after you after you work on a hypertrophy imbalance let's say that the memory of how you hold yourself kind of sticks around sometimes until you know you change your natural positioning it does look to me like you're just holding yourself that way that it's not necessarily like a muscle imbalance in terms of hypertrophy so I think that that would be the key and then like I said I think what you're doing with the lateral work I would continue doing that just because you're holding yourself differently that if you go to a barbell then you may start to notice some development issues so I would stick with the unilateral stuff for a little while especially to offset your work because it sounds like you do a lot of a lot of work with one side versus the other yeah definitely definitely do you have do you have map symmetry because that's like our best unilateral program right no I don't I have anabolic and aesthetic and so I just make everything unilateral of course symmetry I've been meaning to get so we'll send that to you yeah that's the one you got to do then we'll send that to you you guys are awesome thank you do I have time for two more questions yeah so my second question was also kind of symmetry in a way but from top to bottom so I feel like my leg lifts have gotten significantly I've definitely gotten stronger in the last year for instance I've added like almost over a hundred pounds to my deadlift I can't really speak to squat unfortunately because of a wrist injury but I can speak to other leg exercises where I've definitely have seen strength increases and I have seen muscular increases as well but mostly pretty much all significantly in my upper body so I'm just kind of wondering if that's like a genetic variance thing where maybe my lower body just doesn't doesn't want to build muscle much as my upper body does or if that's something you guys hear of often well if you added a hundred pounds to your deadlift your lower body is building muscle that's for sure you're saying your lower body right she's saying her lower body is not growing as much or fast as her upper body I mean you put a hundred pounds on your deadlift yeah that's a big fucking deal yeah that's true it's what you might be seeing you might be critical of yourself that maybe you don't see as much muscle definition in your legs as you have seen in your upper body which that can be genetic right there's some people that just hold more body fat in their lower body then they do their upper body and as they start to build muscle it stands out more to them in their upper body than the lower body but I guarantee if you added a hundred pounds to your deadlift you definitely built some lower lower half muscle for sure if you leaned out you might see a little cleaner than where you're currently at right now and then maybe you'll see some of the hard work that you've done to build muscle there that would be my guess Brianna did you play sports in high school or college yes I played sports pretty much all through all through high school would you play basketball, soccer, track and field I didn't really have any one that I stuck to the most I just kind of did all sorts of them equally but primarily soccer, basketball, track would you say that you have narrow hips in comparison to like the average woman would you say you're a more narrow hip wider shoulder kind of build or is that inaccurate yeah I would I would say maybe more like average yeah that makes sense the reason why I'm asking is female athletes or women that tend to succeed really well in sports tend to have more tend to have narrower hips and carry a little bit more musculature in the upper body not because of the sports kind of their genetics so here's what I'm saying so you may build muscle faster in your upper body that might be true if that is true just swap volume for upper body to lower body so you know if you're doing you know ten sets for your back maybe just do five take those extra five sets and put it to lower body exercises so you can modify your work outs so you could put more work in one area and less work than what you don't want to do just add volume and not compensate by reducing volume in other places so you could totally do that how long have you been working out for consistently two years yeah you're in a position where you can start to modify so I would go ahead and have fun with that and experiment and see how it works and if you're if you want to just maintain your upper body you could take a lot of the volume down and throw it to your lower body give yourself five months and see see what that looks like sure yeah I also feel like part of the reason why I say I haven't grown muscle on my lower half is because it I feel I'm actually very glute dominant and hamstring dominant versus quad dominant um and so I feel like I haven't I've been trying to grow my quads and I just do not see them growing at all so maybe that musculature is going towards you know glutes and hammies um and I'm just not seeing it on this uh in the part that I want to be seeing it well this is also a way to address your third question which I can read up there which is to Sal's point you know drop the shrugs and add a an exercise for your quads sure so drop drop the shrugs and do that I mean you're going to follow symmetry right now which is my suggestion would be to fall out the way it's laid out there's not a ton of shrugs in there at all so I would follow the way that's laid out but in the future like let's say when you move back to say anabolic or aesthetic pull the shrugs out and replace it with some you know leg exercises well how do you tend to store body fat Breanna if you were to gain weight where does it go first um definitely abdomen that lower back and arms okay so look here's the other thing too like are you tracking do you have like have you ever what's the leanest you've ever been and do you track your calories and protein and stuff like that I used to track I no longer do um the leanest I was probably about a year ago um you can see in the picture that I definitely have gained some body fat since last year um so yeah that was the leanest I was at um I don't think I don't know if you're looking for calories or a percentage but I'm really not clear on either of those yeah no no worries I'm just the reason why I'm asking is because uh some some women store body fat more in the upper body and when they when they gain body fat they feel bulkier in the upper body so the reason why I'm saying this is at some point if you ever decide to you know get down to let's say the low 20s or high teens and body fat percentage the issue that you're noticing with the upper versus lower body may actually disappear so I've had female clients like this as well when they get lean it's like oh okay it wasn't my upper body was super muscular it's just that I tend to store body fat uh more in my upper body so that's another thing to consider but at like ultimately modify your workout that's where that's where I would take you follow symmetry as it's laid out after that start swapping out volume and see how it works out for you okay awesome all right very good yeah thanks for calling in thank you so much you guys I appreciate you all so much this was a pleasure thank you so much good luck with some good work thank you you as well goodbye bye bye you know years ago I noticed uh like a crazy imbalance on myself because when I was dead lifting like crazy I got stuck in the habit of having my right hand supinated my left hand pronated this was my strongest grip and uh I got a massage and my massage therapist is like oh man the right erector spinae is like so much more developed and I'm like what you know I never see your back so I'm like really yeah so I remember I went up against the wall put my back up against the wall and I could feel the difference wow and then I that's when I switched to double overhand and it took me it took me close to two and a half three years to somewhat balance that's how long it could take sometimes so yeah when you have somebody where it's it's not bothering her she can just see it a lot of times just now becoming aware of it and then learning to position yourself in a the neutral position when you go to do lifts because what ends up happening is they they lift in that that you know position that's advantageous for putting things on the shelf and they go right in their lifts and then it just exacerbates it where if you are aware of it you can position yourself correctly do a unilateral work it'll start to kind of balance itself out just becoming aware of that too and you go to deep tissue massage what that feels like right and you're unaware of it because you do your less because it is beneficial to have type muscles help support you know your joints and like you're able to lift effectively in that direction but once you kind of really like peer into that and see that discrepancy and address it it's it's it's a lot of work yeah so for people listening right now your your cns you know obviously controls what your muscles do and it can tell some muscles to be partially tense all the time because it's protecting a joint or because you use it so often this is why you feel like you're tight or you have a knot and then what happens when someone pushes on it real hard is the cns gets the signal and it starts to relax the muscle and so sometimes that's just how people walk around and the massage reveals it more than anything next caller is Steven from Wisconsin what's up Steven how can we help you hey guys just wanted to say thank you for everything you guys do I've been listening for about three years and pretty often my friends and my girlfriend are like Jesus this guy's listening to mine pump again like they get on me but it doesn't matter I'm still listening so thank you guys and I it's my favorite thing to listen to either in the car in the shower you know anytime I can so awesome I love listening to sound the showers my favorite wow wow you're one of us yeah all right go ahead and ask your question yeah so I figure I'll just dive in and you guys can ask questions of course based on mine so my question is what would be the best course action for me as someone who is not able to convince consistent nights of sleep because of work in baseball and I want to gain strength and balance out the left and right side of my body because my right side is lacking heavily thinking about studying program like symmetry or maybe math 15 and just making everything unilateral but I'm not entirely sure how to balance my intensity with the new stress I'm having also playing baseball my priority right now and the gym comes as a close second but I ideally I would not sacrifice my time at the gym because of baseball yeah good question what position you play I'm like catcher okay so your imbalances right to left is what you're noticing big is it is it feel pretty pretty significant yeah it's pretty significant and I ran to a lot of injuries in the past couple years and they all better my right side okay so and it would how many days a week do you practice and what does that look like so in the summer we're probably playing four or five days a week with double headers on Saturday and Sunday okay that's a lot yeah I wouldn't do more than one day a week of strength training and correctional exercise that's it that's the most I would do right now yeah and then mobility in between off season you can add like a day or two but literally right now I would do one day a week unilateral work dumbbell type basic strength training and then on the days that you practice I would do lots of correctional stuff before and after practice so like 10-15 minutes before and after and that would be pretty much it I wouldn't do any more than that because I think more than that will do the opposite of what you're looking for so what it would look like is a one foundational day from symmetry so your idea of running symmetry is right I think just what you probably would have done is done too much because you got a lot going on with baseball already that one day a week of lifting full body is 20 for you so do you have map symmetry already or no I do not okay so we'll we'll send map symmetry over to you and then like I said I would pick I'd pick one day I don't know follow one day for three weeks and then pick another day follow it for three weeks that's kind of how I would train and then like Justin's suggestion is is doing some like mobility work in between but do you have any of our mass programs so far no no I do not have been following some power building program that's been five days a week because sort of meant to but it really hasn't been working out well of course not way too much way too much another thing Steven to I noticed with with guys her age is their diet is typically lacking so are you are you hitting protein targets do you know how many grams of protein you're getting a day yeah I mean I'm shooting for 180 to 200 I mean I'm more than likely not hitting that every day especially on the weekend we're traveling it's hard to get our meals in but yeah my diet spend not the best as a late so so tell me what the challenge is is it that you you just don't make the time or you don't wake up on time a lot of guys your age it's just they wake up late and they get to get school or whatever like and you're saying that's the target what do you what are you doing to try to hit that so during the week like my meals are pretty consistent the place where I run into trouble is if I'm at the field for 8 to 10 hours on a Saturday or Sunday and I'm just looking like it's hard to get like my normal meals in on those days or especially like last weekend we were in a hotel Friday Saturday Sunday so my options were kind of limited there all right I would do shakes on those days and on the days that you're home I would definitely meal prep because that's going to put you so far ahead of of other guys or age like I don't I I I've never found a 20 something year old that gets anywhere near what it's supposed to with that that's always where they screw up so that'll make a big difference with the the fact that you're training so much and you feel like you're burning out yeah I think you you hit your protein and targets like Sal saying consistently for 30 days and you train the one day a week in symmetry I guarantee you'll see a significant difference and with less training and just just hitting your protein targets what will happen in 30 days watch yeah well I love I mean I love symmetry for you obviously I mean selfishly I want you to have performance as well just for the mobility sessions there's a real simple way to address a lot of like these movements for baseball especially with stick mobility and so I worked with these guys for a while but there's there's lots of ways of really opening that up getting external rotation with your shoulder also addressing you know hips and ankles lateral line and so you know there's there's a couple things too so we did we did two webinars like between myself and Adam free that we're showing our prime program and our prime pro program but really to be able to do a few of those moves especially like consistently to just make sure you keep and maintain the health of these joints as you're adding all of this excess stress I can't reiterate this enough is is something that needs to be a daily habit well then hook them up with performance also then so then the suggestion would look like this based off of what Justin is telling you and I agree with him is follow symmetry the program one day a week that's all you do for the foundational training and then the other days in performance we have what are called mobility days which are it's about 20 minute sessions of mobility like flow work we're like lizard with rotation 90 90's movements like that that you can insert during the week and honestly those you can't really do too much of that so as much as you can incorporate that into your routine incorporate that into your routine yep okay yeah so especially with games during the week I'm about an hour and 30 away so I ended up getting home about midnight and then what I've been running to the trouble is I got to get to work by 9 so I've been waking up at 6 to get to the gym and lift so should I just kind of play by ear when I hit that foundational day from symmetry yeah yeah yeah exactly I would pick it to do it on a day when you get the best rest because you're only needing to do it one day a week so make it the best day make it the day that you're honestly actually with your weekend well if it depends if you have a weekend off of baseball if it's not one of your like double header triple header type of tournament style but if you have a day off on the weekend since that's already a challenging day nutritionally for you I'm a big one on winning the weekend so like I would actually try and make that a day where I lift I meal prep I do all of that on that day and then the rest of it so I set my week up really dive in the performance mobility because you could actually like incorporate that into your actual warm-ups before these games so that way you know you go through a lot of that instead of just like you know aimlessly sort of like warming up the muscles and getting cardiovascular sort of output with that like be more specific about like getting engagement out of you know muscles that are supporting your joints okay yeah definitely and then for diet wise should just focus on the protein because just focus on that for now just focus on you're young enough you're active enough I'm not worried if you eat a little bit extra fat or little extra carbohydrates or a little extra calories what I care about is you hit your protein intake now now here's one caveat I don't want you to just do a bunch of shakes because if you do that then you're not getting any carbs or fats either okay so when Adam's saying is with you know try and hit it with food if you end up with five shakes a day and one meal you're gonna you're gonna want to throw some other stuff in with those shakes like some some fruit or some something that's gonna give you some other stuff too so and I'm saying that because I could picture yeah you know 21 year old kid who's like well I had breakfast and I'm have five shakes today imagine shakes and bars is an emergency only because you're way behind and you're not there the goal should be for you every day to try and hit your protein and take through through Whole Foods and only if you need it do you use the shakes and bars to get there just focus on that I'm not really worried about additional calories that you have on top of that just do that and and that and the training one day a week you're gonna see a big difference I promise okay perfect yeah and I probably won't run into the trouble with the shakes of the bars because anything more than a scoop at a time and my digestions is messed up so oh even more pick a different protein also yeah I mess with like a organify okay so like that that's gonna be better on your go plant protein or collagen don't don't don't if it's messing your gut up it's not worth it that's the way okay all right we're gonna send you symmetry and performance okay yeah thank you very much I mean greatly appreciate it you got it man go kick ass yeah appreciate it thanks bye you know what the challenge is with somebody that age is because we always talk about this on the show there's like what's optimal and then there's what you can tolerate yeah the optimal for a kid is still here but the difference between a kid and in somebody who's older is what they could tolerate is way over here that doesn't mean that they'll get better results it's just when you're young you could just tolerate so much and so you just add more resilient you just keep adding whereas if you're older you get hurt you get sick immediately you feel it right away whereas when you're a kid you just seem to like don't get fried bulldoze through it yeah but but it's not optimal you're not gonna progress that way well that's what makes it so hard to measure when you're that age it's already hard because you're not experienced you're young you know say and then you have like this crazy amount of energy and that you could run off a low sleep but you know just because you can't doesn't mean your body's going to respond and he's we usually train five days a week with all that shit plus he's doing a power build yeah I mean I swear to God if he hears this if you literally just 30 days commit to never missing your protein intake for 30 days and you lift that one day of symmetry he'll grow yeah he'll be more explosive out there in the field too watch yeah I remember when I was in my early 20s I did a double split six or seven day a week routine and I didn't get sore so I thought oh this is totally working of course made zero progress because I could just tolerate so much work you do the same thing yeah all right next caller is Matt from Virginia what's up Matt how can we help you hey guys how's it going good man all right good thanks for taking my question thanks for everything you guys do to teach and train it's been a lot of fun learning from you guys so I just I picked up the RGB bundle a couple months ago really decided to do it my question is I just finished anabolic had a great time with it but I'm wondering if I made a massive mistake or wasted my time by pretty much running the whole thing on a caloric deficit I lifted a lot when I was younger but I'm just getting back into it now I had a lot of fun doing the program but my goal was in my head it was just to lose weight and I lost weight I lost 14 pounds nine of it was fat five of it was muscle I thought that was kind of just the name of the game and I was really looking forward to move on to performance really really cool really fun but I'm wondering if I need to run the whole thing back with anabolic again on more of a bulk more of a surplus anyway so I want to get your advice on how to proceed and then a second part of the question is kind of a mental thing of how do you guys deal with frustration when you feel like you've been working and doing stuff and you're like okay did I did I just waste my time by doing the wrong thing for a while like I've been doing my chest exercises all wrong working my triceps rather than working my chest which is something I learned from you guys as well so those two things how to proceed how do you deal with frustration okay so generally speaking all strength training based programs are designed to build muscle okay bottom line now there's different ways to do it there's different types of programming there's different types of strength that you may be focused on what's like powerlifting or more body building style or more athletic type training but that's what strength training does is it makes you stronger and builds muscle your diet is what determines whether or not you're trying to gain or you're trying to preserve while you burn body fat so the reason why you strength train while you diet or getting a deficit to try to keep the muscle sometimes build but very rarely to keep the muscle while you get leaner so did you waste your time I mean no I mean if your goal was to lose body fat then that's what's happened now if you lost muscle during that period of time then I would look more at the calorie deficit than anything else it might have been too much of a deficit you might have gone too hard in the deficit or it could have been something else like sleep or stress or maybe the volume was too much or something like that now second part about frustration you know you mentioned something like I'm working my triceps more than my chest well you just move forward you just move forward you're always going to learn as you continue to move along in terms of like what you focus on or what your goals are and you know am I really moving forward one of the best things you could do and this is actually more important the more advanced you get is to change what you look at and what you're focusing on you know I can't I've been working out for 30 years I can't always focus on strength I'm not going to keep getting stronger forever it's not going to happen so I don't look there most of the time other times I'm looking at things like movement and how I feel maybe mobility maybe control stability or just the enjoyment of the workout so in order to continue to do this for the rest of your life you're just going to have to change where you look because you're not going to progress perpetually forever Matt let me ask you about your your cut I want a little bit more detail so I could advise you on if I would have done it differently or I think you did just fine where were your calories at when you started the cut and would you cut down to yeah so I started at 1800 calories and then I moved down to I think 1550 is where I ended up going and I didn't find your video on how long to do cuts until I was not done with it so I was like okay that's okay I just wanted to know okay so now let me explain what would have been different right so we could have and like Sal said in the beginning your goal was to lose body fat and drop down you did that and you did it at a higher ratio of fat than muscle so overall you didn't waste your time at all but if I had you as a client and I knew that you were only eating 2000 calories as a man and I know that you want to lose body fat what I would have done first during anabolic would be to add calories and bulk you up and so at the end of it it might look more like this instead of you actually losing 14 pounds we actually might have only stayed the same or maybe even gained 3 pounds on the scale which at first you might go oh fuck well that's not my goal I wanted to go down you're a terrible coach and trainer but if I did my job really well I would have added 1 or 2 on the scale or kept you the same but then you'd be eating like 25 to 2700 calories and now we'd be in this place where I could say alright Matt you really want to lean out now let's drop that 27 2500 calories let's drop it down to 2400 calories and go on the maps performance now and let's see what happens and what would end up happening is you would lean out as much or more you probably would hold on to a little bit more muscle because you're at a higher calorie supporting and higher protein and take the support the muscle you have in your body and you'd be eating more calories and you'd get just as lean if not leaner than what you currently did right now so that's the difference now had you answered that question as Adam I was already eating 3000 calories I cut down to 2500 and this is the results you got well you already had a pretty good amount of calories I wouldn't have probably pushed you up anymore on that so that would have been a fine decision so we get asked this question all the time you know should I run your program in a cut or a bulb it really comes down to the client and where their current metabolism is at on which direction I would shift has nothing to do with the program like whether they're following anabolic or performance has everything to do with if I'm getting you as a client one I want to know what your goal is your ultimate goal is and then I want to know where your current kind of state is metabolism where your your calorie maintenance is and then together we decide is that is that a healthy amount of calories that you like to eat do you feel good on eating that or would you like to be able to eat more and so based off of how you would answer me would dictate on how I would steer you through the bulk or cut process running any programs that we have just to clarify Matt like you could bulk or cut on any strength training program it's the diet that determines that how how tall are you and what's your body weight at yeah I'm 510 and now I'm 181 yeah you your calories were really low yeah I wouldn't to cut you at 1800 calories that's for sure you would have ended up with muscle loss I mean even if you especially if you're hitting protein targets you don't leave much room for carbs and fats what's cool though is that here's the thing though and this is why you didn't waste any time now that we go into performance now I would run in a bulk now let's add calories and then I would tell you to don't be worried if we if you if you put on a little bit of weight on the way hopefully it's muscle so you don't need to increase your calories dramatically but our goal through performance should be can I get you up every week or two weeks can I increase you by 100 to 200 calories so that at the end of the program I've got you now eating like 2500 plus calories and you haven't really put on any body fat maybe you put on a one or two pounds but it's all muscle because we went on a bill on on a bulk and a nice slow bulk at the end of performance I've got you more muscular without any more body fat and eating more calories that would be the goal of performance with you now is to do that that's what I'd like to do with you yeah cool great yeah so do you know how to do a reverse diet map I do not I'm gonna send you I'm gonna send you the reverse dieting guide because that's how you're gonna that's how we should have you get into a bulk and get yourself up to like you know I wouldn't I wouldn't start thinking about really doing a cut to get to at least 25 to 27 her calories okay and and I know I didn't touch on I know South touch on it but just a little bit to get like the frustration with yourself and so that man this is gonna this is a lifelong journey I've been doing this for over 20 something years I'm still learning lessons the hard way so that's you look at it as as education you don't say and every time you follow a plan nutritionally and follow a program consistently that's you putting in the work of educating yourself about your body your nutrition your exercise like that so it's always worth it even if you come out of it and you fucked I can't tell you how many times I went into a cut or a plan and then you know six eight weeks later I find out that I put myself in a worse shape from aesthetic position I lost muscle and I gained a and like I mean that's so frustrating for a guy who's experienced educated in this field but it happens and that's part of the process but I know now I know that oh wow when I when I cut that aggressively and I push my body that much I think because I'm doing all the work I'm gonna get better results but I actually got worse results and so it's a learning process so you know chalk it up as part of the game of getting wiser on how to build a routine program nutrition plan for yourself don't get discouraged or frustrated by it awesome thanks so much guys really appreciate it look no matter what program you're following if it's a strength training program it's going to either build muscle or preserve muscle whether you cut or diet that's that's up to the diet has nothing to do with or bulk whether you bulk or cut it's all about the diet has nothing to do with the program all programs that we have are for building strength building muscle or preserving in a calorie deficit so in a situation like that how do you decide if you like let's say this like this person Matt is a client of yours and you're getting ready to start a program which you know could be a cut or bulk doesn't matter what makes you decide I want to bulk him or I want to cut him yeah well the the goal where their calories are currently at like he wanted to cut that's the goal unfortunately his calories were already so low that I'm like that's not a good idea we go from 18 or calories for a guy yeah like we're gonna go down to 15 you're gonna lose muscle I don't care how great your strength training program is you're gonna lose muscle so it's the goal and where your calories are at and if you don't have enough if you're not high enough in the calories a cut doesn't make a lot of sense in fact somebody who wants to lose weight but if their calories are already low we actually bulk them we actually do what's called the reverse diet so both those things are the things that the factors that you want to consider and then of course there's other stuff like how you feel and a lot of the stuff as a general rule for me almost everybody regardless of you trying to bulk or lean out I almost look to introduce calories and increase their metabolism rarely ever if I ever received anybody who's like Adam I need to lose 30 or 40 pounds of body fat and immediately I go into a cut because almost always they've kind of tried that on their own yo-yo dieted and they've already kind of slowed the metabolism down so I almost the first nail they see is to just cut that heart right that's typically what most people do so when I when I see their their calorie maintenance what they're currently eating to maintain their 30 pounds overweight and I go oh wow well that's that's not a place you want you if we got a cut that means I got to cut you at least three to 500 calories from there and now we're in a place 1500 calories for a male that's so low you're not going to sustain that for the rest of your life I know that you need to be somewhere closer to 2500 calories or more a day to feel satisfied and to be able to do this forever right all right next caller is Nick from Georgia Nick you're a real rocky fan aren't you I noticed the shirt there oh man love it bro that's just trans core points with sound most people don't know that's that's that's Mickey's gym right there mighty mix right there on a shirt right I wore this hoping you would you would know exactly what this is nobody ever gets it they think I box and I'd get my butt kicked real quick so yeah see real rocky fans though so cool alright so how can we help you man yeah so first I just want to say thank you guys one for myself when I first started listening to you guys I was a real kind of meathead thought I was really advanced thought I was an advanced lifter and realized real quick you guys kind of humbled me and showed me that I'm only I'm only advanced in one area I'm not multiple forms of training and then I went through map symmetry and it really helped correct some chronic lower back pain I had that surgery from and then for my wife she was a class lady she was all about the cardio and I tried telling her every I literally said verbatim everything you guys said on the show nothing clicked and then I bought your book and I read it with her and for some reason when she heard it from Sal she just man she's been hooked ever since so I have a few other things I want to get past her if you could just write a book about it really appreciate it man so she's hooked but yeah so just a little background so 25 years old I'll be 26 later this month I was former military injured my back pretty bad needed to get surgery started doing a lot of physical therapy and that inspired me to go to college to become a physical therapist and I'm currently in my undergrad part of that which is rehabilitation sciences and I also became a certified personal trainer and nutrition coach I've been training for about 2 years now and I just really fall in love with it like I just I wish I was training people more but realize that I can only put so much time and energy into school and training people so right now I have about 4 clients in person I'm not doing any online training right now but yeah I just really I really you know I was I was inspired before I met you guys trying to revitalize that vision for me and how to do it the right way with integrity and I kind of want to build something similar but unique and authentic to my to my vision I just don't know where to go man I just you know I feel like feel like I can only do so much right now and I don't know how much to invest in my personal growth as a trainer because I know I have a long way to go and also just the business side of it so I just didn't know if you guys had any tips or what you could do if you were my age yeah yeah I mean just a real quick answer NCI is going to be a great I mean for all the stuff you're looking for they're the best when it comes to teaching people how to build a business especially we we've never run into anybody who's done as good of a job in terms of their system of teaching people how to build a business you could always get a mentor which I would say is the best thing you could do where you work with someone in person and you follow them around and you know work for them for free just kind of learn how they build their business but NCI's put it all together and we've seen firsthand them build help people build pretty successful businesses so you're gonna like what we have coming down the pipe too so we've got some cool stuff specifically for coaches and trainers that we're working on we have been working on for quite some time something more specific that I if I'm you in the exact situation you're in something I'm doing right now is trying to build a social presence right so on Instagram or Twitter whatever face whatever platform you use I'm gonna start to try and build a community there now what does that look like the mistake I think most people do is they look around other platforms or other famous influencers and they try and model or mimic exactly what they're doing or they try and make a viral video and it's like that's not what I would do at all since you're already going through all the schooling and the education around physical therapy and your certified personal trainer you have knowledge every day the way with the way I would steer my content is every day I learn something from school that becomes a post so you learn to to work on something correct like you just learn on some corrective work for you know knee issue a specific one then you could make a post specifically to that piece of content and that's what would drive my content now your goal is to give this free this all this great information you're paying for you're working your ass off to learn into this like bite size Instagram versions of that for a community of people to share and enjoy themselves and so and this is only going to feed your potential future business whether that's in physical therapy or as a personal trainer or you want to build a big brand like mine pump start using that you can also use all of our content this is a mistake that coaches and trainers always make they always like I want to build my own thing and so they they don't utilize all the free shit that we have and there's this fear of oh my god if I share these mine pump guys all the time they're never going to want to buy coaching from me or they're not going to be in my business they're just going to go to their business that's such a scarcity mindset and small way to look at things look at it this way we've done all the work we spent all the fucking money building all these free assets out for you to utilize for your community so if you if you're drawing a blank on a piece of content that you want to put up there that you think is valuable I'm sure there was something of ours that you listened to watched or read that was very valuable to you fucking rip it rip it and use it share it with your community and start to build a community of people that now come to you for all this great information and that doesn't mean you cannot use our content to do that so those are two main things I would probably focus on if I'm you right now I totally agree I mean I honestly I think that because you're going through all the education right now it's really just about like to internalize it to be able to teach it now like as much as you can it's really going to solidify that information that you're receiving right now as you're getting I wish I would have done that more like I was just more kind of passive in receiving information and didn't really maximize my time in my educational process but also too that just doubles up as content for you down the road so whether it's you teaching yourself via video and then just cataloging that or you have friends family that you can kind of apply these techniques or or methods or you know teach them something very specific that's going to help them nutritionally whatever it is just document it and then you know and to if you really want to do this and grow at something big like you're going to need a lot of content these days to keep up are you working right now too are you working in a physical therapy office or in a gym so I had to get observation hours I was working at a clinic for a while but I'm just working at a gym right now as a trainer during the summer while I have to study to get into the doctorate program and stuff so it's it's a lot not taking classes of summer but I'm just working as a trainer perfect I was gonna say keep doing that as long as possible and then if you could find because here's physical therapists are the best generally speaking when it comes to correctional exercise one thing they tend to lack is in training for hypertrophy aesthetics performance unless that's their specialty so if you could find a physical therapist that you think does a damn good job approach them and tell them what you want to do and literally say this I will work for you for free I just want to watch you and listen to you talk to your clients and your patients and I want to watch you do things with them and if you'll answer my questions great if not no problem I just want to follow you around you'll learn more like that then you will in any textbook so find somebody and see if you can follow them around you know I mean ten hours a week would be amazing and offer to do whatever they want for free that'll be so much more valuable than what you're learning in class right now the advice I gave about the posting to what are the beautiful side effects that I know how intense the DPT school is I mean that's you got it's like heavy heavy studying for you so it's only going to make you a better student so I would even like my mindset what I'm doing is like I'm not tripping out if I don't have 10,000 followers or the poster it's like I'm actually part of me doing it is actually to help like Justin said solidify that information so I become a better student so it's like it's selfishly motivated like I'm going to put this content out in hopes that I can reach people teach the information that I'm learning so I'm only going to get better at my craft I'm only going to be a better student and then along the way what you're going to find out is you're kind of playing this game and throwing spaghetti on the wall and the most random shit sticks you're going to post something one day this is if you are consistent with the advice and you're going to be like are you kidding me this is what everybody wants to hear like that is the most basic listen to them too listen to the feedback yeah and then and then now you allow the feedback from the comments and the engagement and the sharing of oh shit maybe I'll go deeper on that subject and now I'm going to make instead of making just one post I'm going to make 10, 15 different posts teaching it in five to different ways and showing the the progression of it the regression of it like examples of it the pitfalls like and oh what I would eat when I'm going through all the things you could think of based off of the way people are giving you feedback so that's mainly what I would focus on right now and then take advantage of the NCI stuff right the NCI they have a lot of free courses on there I mean there's a $99 a month thing where you have access to the four of us every single Wednesday where you get to do a call and we talk all you have open platform on zoom with us to talk all business questions so that's not a major commitment and it gives you an opportunity to probe us every single week so just some ideas for you yeah absolutely I was just like when I worked at the clinic I just saw so many people who came in for surgery and it was like their third or fourth time there and like a lot of the therapists I'm not trying to cut anyone down I hope no one I worked for is listening to me but they were like the trainers themselves weren't the best in shape people either and I was just like I was just like man you're a physical therapist you're not in the best physical shape and I also don't want to just be a physical therapist and heal these people's injuries I want to have like my own personal training studio to show people hey man there's something more than just rehabilitating an injury if it rehabilitates the injury it probably prevents it too and like try to introduce them into a life of fitness and activity so that's just kind of the dream I really appreciate it so you got it man if you have prime and prime pro if not I'll send those to you because I think I literally bought prime pro because Justin looks like he could just destroy me so I just figured I bought that like last week so I have like 16 of your programs all right all right then brother I got one thing for Adam though I was house sitting last week and went to the bathroom they had these little motion sensor nightlights and I have a really small bladder actually got tested for diabetes because I pee so much so I think you should go on Amazon and get one of these little motion sensing nightlights because it doesn't wake you up but so if you continue to sit to pee it's just a choice at this point thank you Nick thanks man so keep us manly so thanks thanks again brother take it easy Nick yeah thank you guys so much appreciate it brother thank you I worked with a lot of physical therapists at my studio so it sounds interesting that he wants to do that you see that like the physical therapists are really good at the correctional stuff but a lot of them don't go beyond that so it's like oh movements back range of motions back but they don't know how to like really progressively overload build strength build muscle solid bridge there to kind of push them back into the gym to build muscle to work on performance the PTI worked with she was so amazing at correctional exercise and that's what I learned from her and what she learned from me was the progressive overload stuff and we really I mean we just got really good combining the two so I was coaching Melissa Wolf when she went through all this her dpt school and then she actually got hired onto a clinic and I was constantly probing and asking I was just curious about the space currently at the time and everything like that I had a buddy who was a physical therapist that we lived together you know a decade and a half ago and so want to know how it's evolved how it's changed and the thing that was the common thing that kept hearing from her just like it's amazing how little of these dpt's know about like training, strength training they're so focused on rehab so much and they know that inside and out but as soon as you step out of the rehab yeah just completely oblivious to all that so that was like one of the things that she was most excited trying to evolve and change so it's good to see more pts like this. There's a need there. Check it out if you want to follow some of our programs go to Instagram mind pump media for under five dollars a month you get a free workout sent to you or set up every single week you can also find all of us on Instagram so Justin is at mind pump Justin I'm at mind pump to Stefano and Adam is at mind pump Adam