 I changed the or actually I first will talk about ideas and then results and you will probably find that I agree with the class on many points. And first I will briefly introduce needs and needs so isn't is an independent research Institute so we do projects for the food industry and make profit in that way. So we usually don't fund research we carry out research and are paid for it. We are originally the Dutch Institute for their research, but gradually we moved into all food science and there are about 100 professionals, people actually. And we have all facilities for doing food science, all levels so from very fundamental to really apply it and I think there's a good position to consider neutral scattering food science. So my table of contents is short I will discuss like me and like Nicholas did the unique applicability of especially neutrons. This this talk is about neutrons actually and also mentioned about x-rays. And then I will show some examples of work in the past we did that needs so using neutrons. Now as was already said many times that a unique applicability of nutrients in food science has a few pillars, one of them is HD substitution as we make hydrogen bonding visible. And another thing is that you can look into turbid systems and food is usually turbid. And in that case it helps when you use DTO and instead of H2O as a solvent and then just accept the fact that you may change the solvent quality a little bit. And of course a really important and not optimally used advantage of neutrons is of course that you can look through steel and food processing equipment is made of steel and so therefore it is largely unknown for many very standard applications what happens inside all that steel. So for instance, the effect of high pressure and the build up of food structure under sheer now that I put those in straight the font because they are available already less available. I'm not sure if they're completely unavailable but not widely explored yet is using neutrons scattering for looking at fouling and heating equipment. Look what what happens inside and homogenizer. And these are really quite pressing questions because redesigning homogenizers for for better and better controllable states of emulsions is really bottlenecked by the fact that you can't see what happens inside. And as Nico Niklas already said also it is really interesting to look inside nozzles or Niklas said extruders but that's also kind of nozzle. I mean more the nozzle of a spray dryer. And as a kind of beginner's case of spray drying you could see electro spinning it's easier to bring within the reach of a neutron beam. Now here I show a picture which comes from Delft from the environment. Where they built a shear cell for neutron scattering where to be combined with neutron scattering so you can see the build up of structure during shear in the dense food systems. And there's, there are of course several examples of high pressure cells for neutron scattering and I show here one the one we used in Switzerland. Designed by Cole, a yoga and cold breaker, and we used it for looking at the falling apart of Casey myself that's high pressure, which I will show the results of later. So here are some serious cases, at least on the left you see what fouling actually is. This is this is an heat exchanger for you each treatment of milk after a few hours of action. That is of course not good. And it would be really interesting to see how this fouling starts where it exactly starts in this in this designed surface. And then, and of course in the end, obtain information to control it. On the right side you see in the table top homogenizer and what you actually would like to do is look inside this hat. And can I have an. I don't see my, I can make an. Here's a pointer. So this is the homogenizer hat. And the inside that looks more or less like this here and there's a complex dynamic equilibrium between droplets being formed droplets being bravely being collars are melting together again. And on top of that you have the dynamic equilibrium of surfactant moving into the surface and away from it. And it's not serving at all, at which stage of homogenization and at which settings, you have the emotion that you actually want. It's quite arbitrary what you do you just use a lot of pressure but it is not clear at all that you need all that pressure and it may very well but the design is also not optimal. So you would like to see inside this pressure hat. Now here is my case for spray drying for drying in general. By spraying here I haven't. This morning at work anyway. This movie isn't. I think you need to go out from the laser pointer to the normal then you can start it. Okay. Yes, exactly. Okay, here you see hundreds. Milliseconds of spray drying. And what's what you what you should note is that it is so irregular. And this looks like a nice, misty code. But what you actually see is the sound you hear this this makes a hissing sound. And that's typical 10 millisecond periodicity in, in, in, in that comes out. And that, that is to illustrate how complicated spray drying actually is. And that's probably a close link with the precise shear conditions inside the nozzle. One of the things that is probably the case is usually spray drying is applied on very high solid feeds like 5040% of protein, 4050% of protein and that is probably highly shear thinning and it may very well be that you have a lot of shear bending inside this nozzle. And that is probably not good but certainly influencing what happens just outside the nozzle. And for redesigning these models for taking into account this, this, this year bending, you would have to look inside the nozzle and Newton scattering could do that. And it's of course not so easy to mount and, and, and Newton scattering beam in a real spray dryer tower. So you could start with an electro spinning because they're the type of problems is the same. It is also hard to get stable and if I share, of course, the situation is completely different and you get to widely different products as is shown there at the bottom. And, but also for general scientific purposes it would be nice to do electro spinning in a neutron beam. Okay, so now I will come to my results of all the work we did. I will show one results from bite angle Newton scattering where we looked at the hydrogen bonding network in the sugar glass, and I will show some results of small angle Newton scattering. Actually one was already shown this morning in the during the pitch by the environment so I will not go into that very deeply. And the high pressure treatment of casein. So, it is important to know the to know something about the hydrogen bond network in the in glassy sugars because glassy sugars are often used for encapsulating things. And the quality of an encapsulate made by sugar glass is set by how well it accommodates water, how well diffusion, how well water diffuses through the glassy matrix. For that it is definitely probably not essential but this gives confidence when you know something about the structure of the structure of the sugar glass. We did that for glucose, because it's an easy sugar to work with. And we, we took fully hydrogenated glucose, we took glucose that's full of which the exchangeable each atoms were exchanged for D and 50 50 mixture of those. And now then you have a set of data, which is basically a set of unknowns, or unknowns from which you can calculate the unknowns being the radial distribution function of H with H and H with O and an X with X, where X is anything like O or C. And we did that at three temperatures where 80 degrees where it was completely liquid the glucose and just at the glass transition. And also at a much lower temperature deep under the glass transition and we looked at the structure and I only show the GHH to sort of the radial distribution function of the H atoms, the exchangeable H atoms, so not the covalent H atoms, and that gives the essence of the hydrogen bond network. And now what is important to note is that the liquid and the glass at the glass transition is practically the same, the red and the green. But when you cool the glass, it starts to, yeah, to move on as it were in structural terms. And you get something really quite different, certainly at longer distances. And the hydrogen bond network, at least the small scale part of it is shown there on the right and it's a bit different from water. And we would ideally like to do this also with glass with a little bit of water in it. But we never go to that, but that's something that may be done in the future. Swallowing on neutron scattering now here again here's one of the many pictures of depictions of a case in myself. I think most people know that the stability of case in myself comes from the steric repulsion of the hairy layer on the outside made by the Kappa case in and destabilizing case in you, you can do by cutting off the hairs and then you make cheese or you can cut off the hairs and make yogurt. The letter you do with a certification and the former you do with an enzyme. And these, these, but for the rest these, these in my cells are surprisingly stable so you can boil them you can freeze them you can put a lot of put them in a lot of salt, and they all survive that but they do not survive a situation and they do not, at least not in a stable format that the mice else stay intact but and that's what they do really don't survive is high pressure, then they're really full apart. So as we look at this effect of destabilizing by cutting off the hair for collapsing the hairs now that this was already shown by by the environment we did the work on casing together with him. I'm going to this now you're there is again this picture now and that the wind bomb and already said the most interesting things about it. The only thing I can add is that there is this subtle difference between structure formation. After cutting the hairs or and after collapsing the hairs so making rennet is not precisely the same as making yogurt. And that has probably something to do with. With the fact that it's a very subtle effect which which we study that needs so and that's comes down on that you when you shave with an enzyme and signed the case in my cells, then you'll locally shave it. At least more it is not not in homogeneous shaving. And then so you get patches where the case in my cells start to stick together and acidification is a more global effect. And then, yeah, it's easy to accept probably that you get something different than mean how that precisely works out that is not a question but. But it was nice to be able to see it in this way. Finally, I will say something about the high pressure treatment of case in my cells. We took special care that the solvent of the case in my cells is saturated calcium phosphate and that is important for the case in case in my cells because case in my cells are basically a way to to accommodate calcium phosphate and the conditions where it actually doesn't dissolve. And we believe, at least people with whom I did this work and we believe that the, that's the controlling parameter of the destabilization of case in my cells at high pressure is the measure of super saturation of the case of the case of the calcium phosphate. And that changes when you apply pressure. So we took as a solvent, a solution of milk serum. So we be collected milk serum by ultra centrifugation. You freeze dry that they get a powder and this powder you can then we dissolve again in D2O and then you have a solvent which looks a lot like milk milk serum. And then it also gives you then the proper reference that is the same system of milk milk serum without them myself. So we stepped up in pressure. From ambient to 300 bar, and then you see that the scattering goes down a lot. And that is because the case in my cells fall apart. And you also surprisingly see an isobastic point that suggests that you have a new you get in the population of two groups of objects that scatter. And that happens precisely at the point where you get the shoulder so there's in the neutral spectrum you hardly see a shoulder in the which is in contrast with x-ray scattering and precisely at the point where the shoulder appears after pressure you also have this isobastic point. On the right hand side there's a kind of approximate size distribution which which corresponds to the scattering pattern. And you see that you go from large objects scattering objects to objects that are about 10 times smaller at high pressure. And then when you then release the pressure again and then the pressure comes up again but what you end up with is a mess. So the system is not able to find back the nice native case in my cell structure that was made by the cow. Now here is what it looks like afterwards. So you clearly see that the transparency has gone up a lot because of the high pressure treatment so this is not anymore at high pressure but this is after the high pressure. And that corresponds well with the fact that you have much less scattering and much less much smaller scattering entities. Now the model which at least explains what you see through is another thing but it explains what you see is here. The orange background that isn't the darkness of that is a degree of is supposed to reflect the super saturation of calcium phosphate. So it's super saturated at ambient conditions. When you apply the pressure this super saturation goes away. So there's not a really a reason anymore for the case in to case in my cells to exist. And then they fall apart the nuclei of calcium phosphate which holds together my cell at this off. So you are a everything is then determined by the hydrophobicity of some of the case in molecules mainly the beta case in and they form their own little my cells and that is not probably the 10 nanometer entities, which you see at high pressure. So when you go down the pressure again, then initially you have these small beta case in entities. The super saturation comes on again, and case in our calcium phosphate starts starts to nucleate again form particles, but these particles are poorly accommodated by the molecules and therefore you get this messy structure of larger things that cause the higher scattering at ambient pressure. Okay, so that brings me to my conclusion already. So I you probably agree that neutral scattering is uniquely suitable to shed light on specific issues and fundamental food science now one of the some of these issues are really quite urgent, especially what's what happens in a nozzle in a spraying nozzle. And also what happens in in the narrow confinement of high treats high high heat treatment lines are the UHD treatment. Precisely, when, when does the following start and where does the following start you for instance start that correlates the starting points of the fouling with certain geometries or defects in the stainless steel. Yeah, possible for work and mentioned already quite a lot. You could look into further detail to calcium phosphate, because I am well I mentioned a lot is super saturation and the fact that it comes out of solution comes into solution when you pressurize but you would like to really measure that and neutral scattering is ideal for that also why I think a neutral scattering because you could work with isotopic substitution of calcium. And that is actually that would solve for an important chapter of dairy science because dairy science is actually calcium phosphate science and the rest is just colloid science. The unfolding of proteins is high pressure and that is an old subject. That is definitely certainly for for these food, food. Proteins and and a new plant proteins, quite an explored. I already already mentioned the interaction with protein of protein with steel and their industrial conditions so you would like to build and semi industrial heating line of a meter or two meters or so inside them and a neutron beam. And I already mentioned the structure of classical carbohydrates containing water, and another thing I did not mention but that is also quite urgent is why some cry of protectants for keeping life cells alive during storage and their freezing conditions. Why do they work. Because it is very erratic. Some sugars work some a minor assets work and neutron scattering would be ideal certainly because it's able to show this hydrogen bonding network to shed light on that. Okay, that's that was it. Thank you very much. Thank you Hans for a very nice and interesting talk. We have some questions here from Anna here saying very nice movie of the spray drying nozzle. What type of nozzle did you use. Yeah, I have to be completely honest this this was not a spray drying for grown ups this this was a boogie table top boogie. And so the spray drying is not the same as the as the real spray drying with which you make infant formula. That it's actually driven by air, but it's a start, and it is a bit difficult to mount in the high speed camera which weighs 10 kilos or so inside the real spray drying tower so what was a bit eye opener for us is that you can see in this way how irregular the spraying actually is. There was also another question regarding spray drying there do you think nozzle flow influence the powder particles. Absolutely yes no that is also a well known fact mean people people try to increase the solids content of the feet all the time and so from 40 to 50 and higher than 50%. So you get kind of porridge nearly which which you push into the in a nozzle and it is well known that when you cross something like 55% or so. And that's that the powder changes which you get. And then you could look for the source in the nozzle, they can also be other things that play of course but Yeah, that's a part of the promise probably that that you have complex phenomena inside his nozzle. There are more questions here from more Langton. In milk you have also way proteins and during heating the way protein obtained to the missile surface. How can you detect that. I think yeah. My first guess would be that you do light scattering and look at the size of the micelles. After dilution. I don't think you need neutron scattering for that. But the center food stability of the micelles. And then see if you get rid of way protein in the supernatant. But that can also be because the way protein aggregate is itself. So, you look at the size. Why am I asking is that that's one of the reasons why you can make yogurt. That you can make sorry what you're good. That the way. Yes, it certainly affects you over just from carpet around the micelles. Yes. That's restrict the collapse of the if you don't have the boiling before yogurt making the yogurt will cluster in large lump. Yes. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Nice. I also have a question. I think about this homogenization. You would like to study. I mean, What kind of time resolution do you foresee that? Yeah, of course. Yeah, no, no, you get an average, of course. No, no, no, the art will be to distil from the average structure which you measure to distil from that. The shape, the size, the distribution, the absorption of the droplets and the proteins. Yes. So, but at least that's something and now you know nothing. That's a very nice idea. I also thought of another thing about this age, the hydrogen and deuterium substitution. Because as you said, it's only some of the hydrogen that you can substitute. But, but, but I mean, for instance, if you have, instead of water, you have D2O. Can you have an interaction between the hydrogen and the deuterium of the water, for instance, so to say that you have action. So, yes, I have to do that carefully, of course, but in this experiment, the criteria for the for the for the acceptance of D2O was that the glass transition hardly changed. And when we went to the full D2O situation. So, yeah, you will have to work with this, this series of substitutions in order to make sure that that the water really behaves like, like, like water or like, like one thing that you're not looking at. Yeah, that you're not looking at the fractionation between H2O and D2O in certain positions in the network. Yeah. It would be interesting on its own, by the way, but it is not not not reflecting the real world, the practical world, of course. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I don't know if there is any more question, please feel free to either write in the chat or orally take it up. Okay, it seems like there are no more questions. So with that, thank you very much for a very nice talk.